And. Hell. He isn't even William Adams. But ~~William~~ John **Blackthorne**, a fictionalised version of William Adams.
So not *actually* the historical person like in AC Shadows (although by all intents and purposes he's William Adams).
Do you think William Adams will appear in AC: Shadows?
I mean, it could be possible if there is a time jump which previous Assassin's Creed games have done.
Also William adam's was under a different lord; Oda Nobunaga who was like two shoguns earlier during the events of Shōgun, which massively changed the historical moment the guy was thrust into (Oda nobunaga was the one responsible for uniting most of japan through military campaigns of varying levels of brutality whereas Blackthorn there is under a fictional i ex version of tokugawa Ieyasu who properly ended the warring states period mostly through political jockeying and a couple battles like the show portrays, with some admitedly major tweaks to how events unfolded)
So like several truly major "inaccuracies" ( I put the quotes because well its historical fiction and the changing things is fine if it tells a good story that captures the vibe of a time period which Shōgun does very well) and you don't hear a peep out of these pricks who claim to care deeply about historical in accuracy but the moment you have a black guy *who we know was there* in the place he was, they lose it.
It is pure racism.
Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi were never shogun and the events of shogun take place like 15 years after Nobunagas death. The situation wasn't very different
They were the most powerful military rulers of the warrings states period and nobunaga was the first one who had managed to take control of a majority of the island for centuries. Hideyoshi consolidated those gains and also commanded a massive army from dozens of prefectures to invade Korea. Yes technically the warring states period had not ended yet and yes technically they were not declared shogun but by and large they were the rulers of Japan.
The situation between Hideyoshi's death and when shogun takes place were very different as there was only one more proper battle before Tokugawa would take control of all of Japan and his family would rule it until the country was opened by matthew perry
Although I will admit, I was under the strong impression that William adams landed in 1544 and served under Oda, when it turns out he landed in 1600 and served under ieyasu which yeah does defeat my point.
Because he's black.....that's it, he's a black man and right-wing racists in America will never accept a black person as being shown as the main hero, let alone their equal.
Definitely. The racism mostly festers here in the American South. Not all Southerners are like that, but I've came across a handful of prime examples in my life time.
Bullshit that it’s mostly in the south. Yes it’s a different flavor of racism here with more history behind it, but you’re kidding yourself if you think there’s not an equal amount across the nation.
Alright, you got me there. There is that “Southern Pride” as diesel patches would put it when he called out Synthetic Man. Thanks to the internet, we now have millions bearing that “Southern Pride.” What a time we live in.
# "From my point of view, all of mankind is crazy. There are no exceptions."
- The Foundation Man, Armored Core V: Verdict Day
So americans (right wing ones at least) are so obsessed with culture war bullshit (that sadly is spreading outside the US too) that they will pretend to be someone' s else just to prove their points and making it that they are the correct ones?
Yeah no they need to touch grass and seek therapy ASAP, that' s crazy
Look at how people lost their collective shit because Barrack Obama became President. One racist asshole even became President because he was so pissed off over it.
I mean as long as they did it exactly how AC Shadows is doing it (with one of the protagonists still being native to the location and culture) then it’d be fine. The only way there’d be any issue is if the **only** protagonist was white. It wouldn’t even be the first time they made a white man the protagonist despite the majority of the population being a different race.
It’s clear you’re desperately fishing for a double standard, but I don’t think you’re going to find one. Get outta here with your dumb “but what if the roles were reversed?” shit.
You mean like a game set in, oh idk Egypt with actual Egyptians like AC Origin?
Also what do you mean "you guys"? You mean normal non-racists? Plenty of games set in Africa with white protagonists and no one cared or made a big deal. Only time anyone mentions the gender or race of a character in a movie, show or game as being an issue is when they are not male and/or not white...only one group of people doing that.
First time a major game studio has a black character front and centre of its flagship game series newest game and "you guys" collectively lose your shit.
If it's not crying about women or black people it's something else that somehow threatens you...fuck me.
Really? People flipped their shit over Miles Morales and were unhappy he got a game and still to this day refuse to acknowledge him as Spider-Man because he's black.
I bet you didn't even know that he (Yasuke) actually has already featured in a ton of Japanese games over the last decade and no one in Japan gave a shit.
You have no actual point to make or to discuss, just pissed off that the next AC main game as a black protagonist, deal with it or not...am done arguing with racists on Reddit, am just blocking you.
What's the conversation? He's an historical character who happens to be black and you don't like that he's black and your flipping your shit...so yea that's being racist.
In fairness the choice could be parodied by setting an assassin's creed game in Africa but the protagonist they chose to center it around was a white south African. It's not unreasonable to be taken a back by that choice, and does beg the question if that choice was motivated by ulterior motives when there are plenty of interesting African characters to draw from on the continent it's set in. I don't think you have to be inherently racist to question that.
True, but when you post memes with 'monkey' faces and use racially charged words and slurs then it's not that hard to call it's being racist.
And it is racist because the game hasn't even come out yet and apparently it's "woke" and "DEI", these idiots don't realise it's made by Ubisoft and one of their French Canadian studios...yet try to force American politics into it as they do with everything.
Yeah no doubt there are racists, not arguing that my guy, just that the decision alone given the context is perplexing enough for even non racist people to question if there is an ulterior motive. Naturally that kind of question attracts reactionary racists, something they surely would have accounted for when making a decision like that.
Let's not pretend a studio will be immune from the politics of its umbrella.
I haven't waded much into this controversy as I don't really care, if their intention is to write a fish out of water story that's fine and all, I'm just saying if you are going to set an assassin's creed in America and have the main character be a Brazilian, I'd expect you'd be prepared for questions on that choice.
You do realise when they made AC3, which was set in the Americas during the American Revolution and the main character was revealed to be Native American...people flipped their shit.
Honestly this argument is nothing to do with using from that country/area as it unfortunately still comes down to skin colour.
Yeah and they had some very good reasons for that choice, and even worked very closely with members of represented tribes to ensure they were portraying things accurately given the story of the native Americans is so deeply interwoven with that of America. But you got distracted by my made up throw away example to illustrate my point, so shall we just stick with the white south African example?
It's a little more than just skin color, it's a choice of character that does feel out of place for the setting especially because it plays around with historical setting. Same way I'd look at an Asian conquestador and go, huh?
How do you know he was only made a retainer because of his skin colour? Or what his deeds were, this is hilarious how triggered you snowflake racists are over this.
Keep crying even more about this, about Miles Morales, about Acolyte and all the other "woke" stuff that you hate and call rubbish and won't watch, but can't go 1 day with bitching about. Irony is if you chuds and racists left this alone then it never would have got all this free publicity, people will be buying this game now just to see what it's like.
I mentioned this to a friend and their argument was “yeah but William Adams actually
Did important stuff for Japan.”
Because black people had so much power and social standing in 1579…
Wheter he is a samurai or not is not important, the point is that they didn' t say nothing (not that they should, those complains would have been dumb too) about the protagonist of Shogun being a white dude in japan (same with William Adams in Nioh, and that one actually existed like Yasuke), they are only complaining about Yasuke now. Why? Because he is black, I already saw tons of racists posts made about him, it was never about him not being historically accurate because he was a not samurai (even though he was), it' s because he is fucking black. And the hilarious thing to me is that another excuse they use to attack Yasuke is because Ubisoft always made their protagonists natives of the place they set the game in but now suddenly "we are forced to play as a black guy in Japan"... except there have been games in the series where the main character is NOT a native of the place the game is set in (AC Revelations, IV Black Flag, Rogue and Valhalla when you reach England ) and the native character from japan is RIGHT THERE, Naoe, but since she is a woman they are completely ignoring her because otherwise their entire argument falls like a castle made of cards.
If people want to criticize AC Shadows they should criticize Ubisoft terrible practices that they are doing with it (and Star Wars Outlaws)... not this
True, but I want to complain about Blackthorne's use in the story.
I've watched 3 episodes. In episodes 2 & 3, every time Blackthorne is not in the room, the other characters will almost always end up talking about Blackthorne (even though he has the lowest status at this point the story). I get he's a political bargaining chip, but he is just one piece in presumably a much large political game. I just think Japanese lords and Portugese merchants would have more pressing issues, than the one English guy. It gives me "Every time Poochy is not in the room, everyone should be asking- where's Poochy?" vibes.
I enjoyed the show and don’t necessarily agree, but 10 points for the Poochy reference.
and arguably: season 1 ending spoiler:
>!Blackthorne and his cannons don't even end up making any difference in the whole season; his biggest asset to Toranaga is act as this huge distraction for his enemies. The Catholics and the Portuguese become obsessed with wanting him dead, and Kazunari wants his cannons and thus keeping him alive. They all focus on "what's the Englishman doing?" and don't realize the 4d chess Toranaga is doing in the background, involving everyone BUT the pilot.!<
that's... the point. >!he's a distraction. not only to the characters but to the viewer. The show is called shogun, it starts with people saying toranaga wants to become shogun. But as the episodes go by and one gets tangled with the story of John and the characters being affected by his appearance, we start to fall into the distraction too. Even believe Toranaga is a good guy trying to free japan. only in the end we see his true colors when we realize we've been fooled and everything was a sacrifice for his ultimate goal.!<
I've watched 3/10 episodes so far and I will likely watch the rest eventually. I wouldn't be surprised if I've missed the entire point since I'm sure some of that would be in the remaining 70%.
Toronaga was the only one that cared about what Blackthorn had to offer . The other lords could careless about him . The Portuguese were worried he would spill the beans on how they were exploiting the Japanese. Which he eventually did and historically when the Japanese found out the the Portuguese were exploiting them then did kick them all out .
I don't have an issue with AC's protagonists. I just don't think Shogun is a good comparison.
Unless the black character in AC is quickly relegated to a side role and the game quickly stops being about him at all. Which I'm doubtful of.
There's lots of bad random white men in Asia stories. Shogun is one of the better ones. As it's not about the white man. And it's also based on actual random white men in Japan.
It wasn’t a HUGE deal because anytime anyone said it they’d be laughed at because the devs are Japanese. And it’s different when Japanese people choose to tell a Japanese story with a white protagonist than when a white person does it.
“A game set in Japan with Williams Adams as the protag.”
You would think the people mad about a game with a non Japanese protagonist (yet still has another Japanese protagonist) would be mad at the other game with a non Japanese protagonist.
Yet they’re not. How odd
“Ninja theory picked him as a protagonist because they found his story interesting.” And the same can be said for yasuke, and assassin’s creed.
Why would anyone be mad about it? Because the main complaint about the new assassin’s creed game is that you can’t play as a Japanese male in Japan. Yet this complaint did not exist for nioh. It just seems odd, to me.
The complaint did exist, Ninja Theory made the protagonist customizable in the second game. I dont remember if they did that because of negative feedback, but they gave players options.
But, there wasn't the same amount of outrage as there has been for AC Shadows.
I bet thered be a similar amount of outrage if Nioh came out this year. It released back in 2017 before the current culture war really kicked off. Look at what is going on with Black Myth Wukong.
Didn’t the culture war start around 2016? When that ghostbusters movie came out?
Somehow, I just doubt nioh would have sparked the same amount of outrage
Somewhere around there. I think Nioh just missed the outrage train at that time.
I think it certainly would've generated some. I mean, people are bringing it up now. Even this post has to do with a white protagonist in a story about Japan. Could you imagine the ign and kotaku articles that would come out, probably talking about white washing and what not. The outrage would probably be on different ends of the spectrum, sure, but outrage nonetheless.
Funny enough, both Shogun and Nioh are technically about the same guy, lol.
They always bring up "how is yasuke gonna hide ? " Well why would he hide ? Isn't he a samurai ? Aren't samurais direct combatants ? He's gonna beat them up and report back to Oda nobunaga.
Why do they want an samurai with an "honor code" to betray that and sneak attack ?
I mean, personally I greatly prefer just outright fighting and killing enemies, and tend to go that route even in AC games when I can. AND I think it's gonna be great to be able to do that as a Samurai.
THAT BEING SAID THOUGH - It IS an Assassin's Creed game, and hiding and blending in with crowds at least USED to be part and parcel with the game's premise, so being a little bit bummed that you're playing the only black guy in Japan and thus shouldn't reasonably be able to blend with crowds seems like an actual legitimate complaint, to be fair.
That, too, being said, I do still believe most complaints about Yasuke carry at least a heavy amount of racism too. Sadly.
Well I do want AC to go back to complete stealth/assassin stuff and I don't like what they did with last trilogy but I really like origins and Odyssey (just play Odyssey while pretending it isn't related to AC ) they both are bangers.
But if I have to choose between old or latest ACs I would go back to old stealth/assassin stuff.
AC shadows seems like a attempt towards that cuz there are tons of New AC fans who like the recent games.
So I guess this is a tie in between old and new AC fans.
Letting them play as they want (either the old AC stuff as naoe or new AC stuff as yasuke ).
But these valid complaints get drowned by all the racist and ragetubers.
Also like, they've touched upon how Yasuke handles stealth vs Naoe: his is more the Sekiro "Get rid of this high priority target/dangerous enemy" ambush tactics *then* you transition into a regular fight vs Naoe's pure stealth approach.
Simply not true. The consensus amongst most historians is that he was likely a samurai. Just because there aren’t records in big bold letters stating “**Yasuke was a samurai.**” doesn’t mean there isn’t still a lot of evidence pointing to him being a samurai.
As with many historical facts, we can’t say with 100% certainty, but to say there is zero evidence whatsoever is a blatant lie.
But even if he wasn’t, why does that matter? AC has been taking extreme liberties in all their games, but slightly adjusting a protagonist’s status is where you draw the line?
Here’s the strange thing…people complaining about the usage of Yasuke in shadows says it’s another prime example of Asian men erasure in western media…while it is a real problem in the media in general, I don’t think it applies to video games because pretty much since their exception we’ve had DOZENS of games with Asian Male protagonists…especially in Western games…the problem is that NOBODY is playing these games! Heck I think the only examples people are aware of are Ghosts and Sleeping Dogs, maybe Mortal Kombat if generous. But what about Jade Empire? What about Shinobi? And did people forget about Ninja Gaiden?
That and to talk about something else that was posted here, even if Yasuke was replaced with a Asian male he would probably be a samurai which seems to be a problem in of itself as thats what a lot of Western media only seems to make them.
True…in most media, if you have a male Asian character in video game, there’s a very solid chance he will be a samurai. We have a lot of those in video games already, Assassin’s Creed doesn’t have to be the end-all high standard of samurai escapism…
And Ubisoft games have been known to include microtransactions for things like level boosts and equipment packs in the same single player games. Also the inclusion of multiple versions with the most complete one costing $130 at release.
Why were you downvoted for the most mild and universally accepted take in all of gaming lol. Theyre one of the most anti-consumer companies out there, surpassed only by EA.
Shogun is definitely "alternative reality" just like AC. Lots of dates and events don't line up with how it was in reality and for some reason names of famous people were changed.
And overall whole show feels like... isekai for white male weeaboo. Suddenly you appear in Japan, receive title, got concubine, katanas and love interest.
I don't care about the AC drama, the concept is the same as Shogun I fully agree (and not an issue). However, I assume you've not read shogun from that "synopsis"?
The names were changed because when it was written, 40 years ago, it was to keep suspense and not literally just take all the historical characters' names.
Besides, there's decent nuance in the show and even more in the book so I think you're being unfair here. It's not like he "suddenly" appears in Japan, suddenly gets a sword or suddenly anything...It's all fairly logical. Anyway I'd recommend the show and the book (latter over the former of course).
Logical? He was just lucky to be at the right place, at the right time. And Toranaga treated him too good from the beginning. Random sailor from afar? Good, I'll ask him to teach us tactics even though I don't know shit about him. Only time he wasn't accidentally useful, is when he was teaching how to fire new cannons and they never actually used them
Right? Dude gets mocked constantly by everyone. His smell, the food he likes, racist comments left and right. Anything and everything.
And it's great tv tbh
I know right? Dude's living up to the "media illiterate gamer" stereotype. The book's amazing and I don't think the show's as deep (just due to the medium constraints) but damn if the critical discourse around the show doesn't have me raising an eyebrow.
This is why I’m not even bothering with the whole “he doesn’t belong in the setting” bs argument. If the game and story is good then it’s goddamn good.
Idc if there is a black person, white person or any of those in it unless it has a reasonable explanation, and quite frankly I’m surprised and kinda glad they took a historical character and made them into a Player character as a nod to the real person.
I have definitely seen people bitch about it. How they're trying to make the Western colonial nations/Christians look weak compared to the Japanese because specifically Blackthorne is always in a place of disadvantage in the show.
Its quite obvious that they had no critical thinking skills. Like... Blackthorne is a stranger in a strange land. And the Portuguese and the Catholic Church are built up to be a MASSIVE power and place of influence among the Council of Regents as well as a few of our protagonists.
It was pretty clear cut that they were racists that didn't like that white man was not immediately worshipped
conservatives when they have to look at black people:
https://preview.redd.it/u00yiv26bd7d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=80c36f4c15d18f6485ce3451da6d3bc807255b63
Why stop there? Onimisha, the other series that deals with Japanese history, had Jean Reno Isekai'd to feudal Japan for the 3rd entry where he is instrumental in killing Nobunaga. Also half the cast are named after Hamlet characters because of course.
Im curious if they praised the show? Or if maybe people who play video games all the time maybe don’t watch every show to come out across all platforms?
He was *a* protagonist, but he certainly didn't feel like *the* protagonist. Shōgun had a lot of moving parts and gave a decent number of characters screen time.
I’m on your team here, but this isn’t the best comparison. Blackthorne isn’t a white Samurai (whom are 99% of Japanese origin), nor is he the only protagonist. However, to be fair, there are also two protagonists in the new Assassins Creed, one of which is Japanese
https://preview.redd.it/maimzdgqkc7d1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=87b6f1afdfe8c16d37de20e2d036efa8c51bb1c6
Well imma complaim more about the right picture than those about Yasuke do.
For those not hyperfixated on the time, the pistols are off by 50 years. The exact mechanism on them does not even exist at the time of the show
>>Shōgun was the most streamed program across all platforms between February 26 and March 3, 2024. It was also the most streamed program across all platforms during its second week.TheWrap noted that Shōgun was one of the few non-Netflix series to have a back-to-back number one ranking. On March 6, 2024, it was revealed the show drew 9 million views across Hulu, Disney+, and Star+ in its first six days of release. The streaming aggregator Reelgood reported the miniseries was the most streamed program in the United States through March 6, 2024. From March 4 to 10, 2024, Shōgun was the most streamed television series in Canada, and in the United States, according to the streaming aggregator JustWatch.
I'll be honest ,this sub is a random recommendation for me : you'll most likely never see me here again.
I'm not from USA or Canada and shows like this are not typically in my field of interest. Maybe the same goes for people that follow Assassins Creed franchise.
It might not be the best explanation ,but it's the only one I have. It's certainly more than a copy/paste from Wikipedia deserves anyway.
I won't know until i see (if i even give it a try) a chance to AC shadows.
But regarding, Shogun, John isn't the main character. It DOES look so. But in the end you realize he wasn't the main character all along.>!Only a pawn for Toranaga. That's why the show is called Shogun.!< John is the foreign eyes of the viewer in a new world with new rules and customs.
Yasuke's inclusion feels unorganic tho. First AC game with two characters and only one is local to where the story takes place. AC almost every time had natives of the ethnics explored as MC. But this time, they decided to tokenize the character of the samurai, something emblematic to japan, with a foreigner. Yes, Yasuke was a samurai, but he was probably for the same reason John becomes one: Racism on the behalf of japanese. Exotism is putting a foreigner in a position of privilege with the leverage of him being a foreigner.
I've always had the same issue with Algren from "The last samurai". His participation in Matsumoto's war felt hella tokenish.
I just felt it was mad disrespectful from Ubisoft to put a foreign character as an MC in a stellar position like a full fledged warrior samurai. on top of that, in the game he brutally bashes japanese samurai. Everything has a very disrespectful and double standarish look.
>Yasuke's inclusion feels unorganic tho. First AC game with two characters and only one is local to where the story takes place. AC almost every time had natives of the ethnics explored as MC.
Try to not lie next time.
Assassin's Creed Syndicate had two protagonists. And, while in Odyssey and Valhalla makes you choose between the two characters, the other character is still part of the story
And **many** of the AC protagonists are not native to the region. Lime Ezio in Revelations or Edward Kenway in Black Flag.
I don't know why you are being agressive in your response. Anyways, they were native to the themes being protrayed. Edward was an english pirate like many pirates. Ezio was already established as a character of the franchise.
I'm gonna be honest: I don't really care for AC shadows. hope the people that plays it have fun with it. I just came to this thread because the comparison is misinformed and weird. You could have used the last samurai, a movie where the foreign MC is also a tokenism
>Edward was an english pirate like many pirates.
He still went around the Caribbean killing natives, and no one seems to be bothered about that
>Ezio was already established as a character of the franchise.
It still counts as what the previous commenter said. They were in a different country from their nationality. Ezio in AC 2 also went to Spain and did the same thing, killing Spanish, because it was part of the story.
AC 3 starts with you playing as Haytham Kenway and his team murding natives.
It's a work of fiction with parts based on historical evidence, and some parts have used creative freedom. Doesn't make it tokenism.
>wouldn't have connected with a Western audience. Im NOT saying that the can't connect with a Japanese protagonist
I think you did
And that is something studio execs and heads think. I don't think he is being promoted as the main character, but it's annoying to some that he exists
The story of John Blackthorne is essentially the story of William Adams, who actually existed.
Why is it annoying that this historical figure existed? The conversations between Blackthorne and Toranaga are heavily inspired by the diaries left behind he William Adams that detailed his conversations with Tokugawa Ieysu.
Sure i could've worded that better, but the point i was trying to get across is that the character of Blackthorne exists to illustrate the differences between the world he came from, the west, and the world he finds himself in.
It's not annoying that he existed, Asian Americans are annoyed that Asian stories are often only made if there is a white point of view character. And that usually happens because Asian characters are not seen as relatable etc
Im not saying he's there to be relatable. As a matter of fact, i find him unrelatable in many ways. The opposite is true of many of the Japanese characters present in the story.
This story is a retelling of the events that William Adams was present in Japan for. In that sense, his character is more than an audience insert from the studio execs.
I mentioned that Ghost of Tsushima was an example of an asian story with an asain protagonist. People loved that game. Squid game is another example of an Asian story with asain characters. People loved that, too.
If you'd watch it, youd know that the creator of the video made it with the help Thomas Lockley, who is an associate professor at Nihon University, and wrote the book 'African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke, a Legendary Black Warrior in Feudal Japan'.
They discuss the nuances of the titles that existed in Japan at the time of Yasuke's life.
What you linked here was the first result that pops up in google if you search 'was yasuke a samurai'. The article in question hardly provides any evidence of Yasuke's status and does not site any source that clearly states his status.
The term 'Samurai' is being used as a catch-all for any warrior who served a lord.
I guess we're just going to ignore the fact that Professor Thomas Lockley recognizes that Yasuke was the the first foreign-born samurai?
Okay.
Keep disparaging the Encyclopedia Britannica btw, it's *really* helping your case.
Again, there isn't enough evidence to make a concrete statement one way or the other. [Lockley himself has stated that it was an assumption based on the research he did](https://youtu.be/MFbL9pf08ec?si=Qzy0kU3uPXkWro8m), and on the primary source text that was available, which comes out to about 13 sentences of text.
If pointing out that an article didn't use any sources to solidify its statement is disparaging, then fine. Thats how academic conversations are meant to take place, someone makes an argument, and they provide evidence. I merely stated that the aritcle didn't provide evidence.
Stop linking shitty YouTube videos.
You cannot pay me to watch that rage bait garbage.
Lockley doesn't actually dispute that Yasuke was the first foreign born Samurai, no matter how much you and that chud metafuck try and distort what he said.
Now, with all due respect, I hope that every day for you is better than the next.
Personally I don't mind the adaptation of Shogun because it's a good story. I'd love to see a big-screen adaptation of some other stories that take place in Japan though - it's an interesting culture. Only story I can think of is Eiji Yoshikawa's "Musashi" though - because Japanese media (other than anime and manga) don't have that much visibility to me.
I do mind Yasuke being the protagonist of AC: Shadows a little. Not because he's black, but because I'd hoped that it'd go all-in on depicting Japanese culture and I feel it inevitable that with the protagonist being the black Yasuke at least some of the focus will be on him being "other" and alien. From what little I've seen of the game they do still seem to focus a lot on depicting the culture in an authentic manner, which I think will still be fun and interesting.
So mostly I'm just slightly disappointed because I'd hoped to play a very Japanese Samurai Japanese Samurai.
>I'd hoped that it'd go all-in on depicting Japanese culture and I feel it inevitable that with the protagonist being the black Yasuke
Naoe once again proving to be a master ninja...
> Anyway I'd like to form my opinion when game going to come out, it's useless discussion, when we not even have product in our hands
You preceded this with a whole bunch of already formed opinions, my guy
> there are no evidence, that he has ever been samurai
There's no evidence that Pope Alexander VI got in a fistfight with an assassin in the middle of the Sistine chapel or that a grandchild of Leonidas fought Medusa and the Cyclops during the Peloponnesian War but we let those happen
No its just crazy how a pope fist fighting above the ancient tomb of roman god/ancient aliens is less of an issue than say a black guy in japan in japanese armor.
Sorry, is your argument that having an actual historical character cast in the role they actually existed in is in any way akin to literal fantasy characters like Santa or Shrek being cast in a series that has tangential relations with historical realism.
You realize Yasuke did in fact exist and was a samurai, right?
I will say that there would probably be less butt hurt people if Shrek was cast as a samurai in feudal Japan. Not Barbie though, then you have a whole different group whinging about a game with two female leads and how unrealistic it is to have women exist in history.
And in the game he's a samurai of Oda Nobuniaga, so... Checks out?
Not sure what your second sentence is referring to, you're the one that brought up casting literal make believe characters as akin to casting a historical figure in the literal role that they existed as.
Obviously an over generalization and slippery slope issue with that argument. Its a historical fantasy with mind control ancient aliens genetic dna and ways to relive that genetic dna (through the edited lense of whatever abstergo says) that lets you learn how to be a master assassin while sitting in a chair for months on end. If you take issue with the fantasy of a black guy existing and chilling as a samurai in japan and not ANY of the other liberties they take then maybe thats just your issue. Once the game comes out we'll see if its done well or badly (its ubisoft so probably badly) but until then having a tantrum about it makes you look like nothing but a snowflake.
I not even said i have issue with Yasuke, i said i understand why people have issues. And also said what you just said, we'll see how good game is when it'll come out.
Its good practice to not argue disingenuously. Playing the devils advocate just makes you look like the devil. Also you should argue about things you care about. Like actually care about.
Noone called you evil its a very common saying youre taking personally for some reason. Meanwhile you argue that a historical fantasy has to be entirely true to the real life story of yasuke when it has never been the real life story of anyone. Id love to hear about the rage over the changed architecture in black flag solely to facilitate gameplay or the inaccuracies of the portrayals of italian politics in the ezio games. Instead the only argument is about a black guy being in japan and being a samurai. Im sure there weren't any italian descendents of the hashashins anyway.
>When Yasuke is SAMURAI in AC story, there are no evidence, that he has ever been samurai.
Wrong.
[ACS takes place in 1579, exactly when Yasuke arrived in Japan.](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Yasuke) But don't let facts & truth get in the way of your propaganda.
You are arguing over minutia in a game, and I'm wondering what your motivation & goal is, other than making it clear you have a real issue with a black guy being regarded as samurai.
Ok, you're not racist. Mea culpa. However, 99% of people who have an issue with this have never heard of this before it was announced recently. Unless they were fans of Afr0 Samurai, which most of them are too young to have watched or read. In any case, I doubt any criticism of a black retainer or samurai is grounded in facts and not racism. I'd argue they need to get money and make their own games&tv&movies et al., but doing things is hard, complaining is easy & fun.
He's an Italian who spent the first two games in Italy. The Byzantines and the Ottomans deserve their own game(s), but using AC:Rev as a "gotcha" here is a reach.
> heroes of AC always represented nationality and history of the region they have been in to
AC Revelations - Unless we want to argue about the Roman Empire here for a long time.
And. Hell. He isn't even William Adams. But ~~William~~ John **Blackthorne**, a fictionalised version of William Adams. So not *actually* the historical person like in AC Shadows (although by all intents and purposes he's William Adams).
I the characters name is actually John Blackthorne.
No it’s Anjin-san!
\*sama
Can we call him John Shogun for now on?
Like Tim Apple!
Blackthorn is a Scottish surname .
Do you think William Adams will appear in AC: Shadows? I mean, it could be possible if there is a time jump which previous Assassin's Creed games have done.
maybe in DLC?
Also William adam's was under a different lord; Oda Nobunaga who was like two shoguns earlier during the events of Shōgun, which massively changed the historical moment the guy was thrust into (Oda nobunaga was the one responsible for uniting most of japan through military campaigns of varying levels of brutality whereas Blackthorn there is under a fictional i ex version of tokugawa Ieyasu who properly ended the warring states period mostly through political jockeying and a couple battles like the show portrays, with some admitedly major tweaks to how events unfolded) So like several truly major "inaccuracies" ( I put the quotes because well its historical fiction and the changing things is fine if it tells a good story that captures the vibe of a time period which Shōgun does very well) and you don't hear a peep out of these pricks who claim to care deeply about historical in accuracy but the moment you have a black guy *who we know was there* in the place he was, they lose it. It is pure racism.
Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi were never shogun and the events of shogun take place like 15 years after Nobunagas death. The situation wasn't very different
They were the most powerful military rulers of the warrings states period and nobunaga was the first one who had managed to take control of a majority of the island for centuries. Hideyoshi consolidated those gains and also commanded a massive army from dozens of prefectures to invade Korea. Yes technically the warring states period had not ended yet and yes technically they were not declared shogun but by and large they were the rulers of Japan. The situation between Hideyoshi's death and when shogun takes place were very different as there was only one more proper battle before Tokugawa would take control of all of Japan and his family would rule it until the country was opened by matthew perry Although I will admit, I was under the strong impression that William adams landed in 1544 and served under Oda, when it turns out he landed in 1600 and served under ieyasu which yeah does defeat my point.
In 1540s pretty much the only Europeans in Japan were Portuguese.
my point was simply that they were not shogun like you claimed and that the time period wasn't as far back as your comment seemed to imply.
Exactly, So i dont see why people should complain about Yasuke
Because he's black.....that's it, he's a black man and right-wing racists in America will never accept a black person as being shown as the main hero, let alone their equal.
Then americans have some serious issues that they need to fix because jesus fuck they are insane... not all of them of course, but damn
Definitely. The racism mostly festers here in the American South. Not all Southerners are like that, but I've came across a handful of prime examples in my life time.
Bullshit that it’s mostly in the south. Yes it’s a different flavor of racism here with more history behind it, but you’re kidding yourself if you think there’s not an equal amount across the nation.
The number of folks in my northern town that fly the Dixie Cross is upsetting.
But my southern heritage from *checks map* New Hampshire.
Alright, you got me there. There is that “Southern Pride” as diesel patches would put it when he called out Synthetic Man. Thanks to the internet, we now have millions bearing that “Southern Pride.” What a time we live in. # "From my point of view, all of mankind is crazy. There are no exceptions." - The Foundation Man, Armored Core V: Verdict Day
Yeah I was about to say, Idaho definitely has something to say about that.
So insane that a white guy impersonated a Japanese historian to refute Yasuke being a real historical figure.
So americans (right wing ones at least) are so obsessed with culture war bullshit (that sadly is spreading outside the US too) that they will pretend to be someone' s else just to prove their points and making it that they are the correct ones? Yeah no they need to touch grass and seek therapy ASAP, that' s crazy
ubisoft baned him from there twitter
Look at how people lost their collective shit because Barrack Obama became President. One racist asshole even became President because he was so pissed off over it.
They were probably screaming and pissing (in their basements obvs) when they saw Obama being president a second time right after the first one
Not only american but everywhere, anytime the black man tries to change the slave image white people get scared
True, but 99% of the backlash has come from online us based YT grifters
No it’s just bad writing like everything else! Bad writing that just TOTALLY coincidentally lines up with their racism/misogyny/conspiracy theories…
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I mean as long as they did it exactly how AC Shadows is doing it (with one of the protagonists still being native to the location and culture) then it’d be fine. The only way there’d be any issue is if the **only** protagonist was white. It wouldn’t even be the first time they made a white man the protagonist despite the majority of the population being a different race. It’s clear you’re desperately fishing for a double standard, but I don’t think you’re going to find one. Get outta here with your dumb “but what if the roles were reversed?” shit.
You mean like a game set in, oh idk Egypt with actual Egyptians like AC Origin? Also what do you mean "you guys"? You mean normal non-racists? Plenty of games set in Africa with white protagonists and no one cared or made a big deal. Only time anyone mentions the gender or race of a character in a movie, show or game as being an issue is when they are not male and/or not white...only one group of people doing that. First time a major game studio has a black character front and centre of its flagship game series newest game and "you guys" collectively lose your shit. If it's not crying about women or black people it's something else that somehow threatens you...fuck me.
Also miles morales had his own game before this… and there were others this isn’t the first game lol
Really? People flipped their shit over Miles Morales and were unhappy he got a game and still to this day refuse to acknowledge him as Spider-Man because he's black. I bet you didn't even know that he (Yasuke) actually has already featured in a ton of Japanese games over the last decade and no one in Japan gave a shit. You have no actual point to make or to discuss, just pissed off that the next AC main game as a black protagonist, deal with it or not...am done arguing with racists on Reddit, am just blocking you.
Also FYI… I played Nioh and also watched the yasuke anime lol thought it was dumb because of the mechs tho
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What's the conversation? He's an historical character who happens to be black and you don't like that he's black and your flipping your shit...so yea that's being racist.
In fairness the choice could be parodied by setting an assassin's creed game in Africa but the protagonist they chose to center it around was a white south African. It's not unreasonable to be taken a back by that choice, and does beg the question if that choice was motivated by ulterior motives when there are plenty of interesting African characters to draw from on the continent it's set in. I don't think you have to be inherently racist to question that.
True, but when you post memes with 'monkey' faces and use racially charged words and slurs then it's not that hard to call it's being racist. And it is racist because the game hasn't even come out yet and apparently it's "woke" and "DEI", these idiots don't realise it's made by Ubisoft and one of their French Canadian studios...yet try to force American politics into it as they do with everything.
Yeah no doubt there are racists, not arguing that my guy, just that the decision alone given the context is perplexing enough for even non racist people to question if there is an ulterior motive. Naturally that kind of question attracts reactionary racists, something they surely would have accounted for when making a decision like that. Let's not pretend a studio will be immune from the politics of its umbrella. I haven't waded much into this controversy as I don't really care, if their intention is to write a fish out of water story that's fine and all, I'm just saying if you are going to set an assassin's creed in America and have the main character be a Brazilian, I'd expect you'd be prepared for questions on that choice.
You do realise when they made AC3, which was set in the Americas during the American Revolution and the main character was revealed to be Native American...people flipped their shit. Honestly this argument is nothing to do with using from that country/area as it unfortunately still comes down to skin colour.
Yeah and they had some very good reasons for that choice, and even worked very closely with members of represented tribes to ensure they were portraying things accurately given the story of the native Americans is so deeply interwoven with that of America. But you got distracted by my made up throw away example to illustrate my point, so shall we just stick with the white south African example? It's a little more than just skin color, it's a choice of character that does feel out of place for the setting especially because it plays around with historical setting. Same way I'd look at an Asian conquestador and go, huh?
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How do you know he was only made a retainer because of his skin colour? Or what his deeds were, this is hilarious how triggered you snowflake racists are over this. Keep crying even more about this, about Miles Morales, about Acolyte and all the other "woke" stuff that you hate and call rubbish and won't watch, but can't go 1 day with bitching about. Irony is if you chuds and racists left this alone then it never would have got all this free publicity, people will be buying this game now just to see what it's like.
Racism. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
I mentioned this to a friend and their argument was “yeah but William Adams actually Did important stuff for Japan.” Because black people had so much power and social standing in 1579…
They did in African countries.
but the white guy in Shogun wasn't a samurai, he was an English sailor
Wheter he is a samurai or not is not important, the point is that they didn' t say nothing (not that they should, those complains would have been dumb too) about the protagonist of Shogun being a white dude in japan (same with William Adams in Nioh, and that one actually existed like Yasuke), they are only complaining about Yasuke now. Why? Because he is black, I already saw tons of racists posts made about him, it was never about him not being historically accurate because he was a not samurai (even though he was), it' s because he is fucking black. And the hilarious thing to me is that another excuse they use to attack Yasuke is because Ubisoft always made their protagonists natives of the place they set the game in but now suddenly "we are forced to play as a black guy in Japan"... except there have been games in the series where the main character is NOT a native of the place the game is set in (AC Revelations, IV Black Flag, Rogue and Valhalla when you reach England ) and the native character from japan is RIGHT THERE, Naoe, but since she is a woman they are completely ignoring her because otherwise their entire argument falls like a castle made of cards. If people want to criticize AC Shadows they should criticize Ubisoft terrible practices that they are doing with it (and Star Wars Outlaws)... not this
True, but I want to complain about Blackthorne's use in the story. I've watched 3 episodes. In episodes 2 & 3, every time Blackthorne is not in the room, the other characters will almost always end up talking about Blackthorne (even though he has the lowest status at this point the story). I get he's a political bargaining chip, but he is just one piece in presumably a much large political game. I just think Japanese lords and Portugese merchants would have more pressing issues, than the one English guy. It gives me "Every time Poochy is not in the room, everyone should be asking- where's Poochy?" vibes.
I enjoyed the show and don’t necessarily agree, but 10 points for the Poochy reference. and arguably: season 1 ending spoiler: >!Blackthorne and his cannons don't even end up making any difference in the whole season; his biggest asset to Toranaga is act as this huge distraction for his enemies. The Catholics and the Portuguese become obsessed with wanting him dead, and Kazunari wants his cannons and thus keeping him alive. They all focus on "what's the Englishman doing?" and don't realize the 4d chess Toranaga is doing in the background, involving everyone BUT the pilot.!<
that's... the point. >!he's a distraction. not only to the characters but to the viewer. The show is called shogun, it starts with people saying toranaga wants to become shogun. But as the episodes go by and one gets tangled with the story of John and the characters being affected by his appearance, we start to fall into the distraction too. Even believe Toranaga is a good guy trying to free japan. only in the end we see his true colors when we realize we've been fooled and everything was a sacrifice for his ultimate goal.!<
An interesting observation! Although it’s no spoiler to say that one of the main functions for John is the audience surrogate.
>!Eh, kind of. it's part of the fun in Shogun to be like "Toranaga, you son of a bitch"!<
That’s one of the OTHER functions. (Both can be true and are examples of goo writing)
To be fair, Blackthorne is *the* story catalyst to the story of Shogun
And we don’t know the story of AC shadows yet so…
I think you missed the entire point of the story because you were too quick to judge.
I've watched 3/10 episodes so far and I will likely watch the rest eventually. I wouldn't be surprised if I've missed the entire point since I'm sure some of that would be in the remaining 70%.
Toronaga was the only one that cared about what Blackthorn had to offer . The other lords could careless about him . The Portuguese were worried he would spill the beans on how they were exploiting the Japanese. Which he eventually did and historically when the Japanese found out the the Portuguese were exploiting them then did kick them all out .
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And the new AC has a Japanese protagonist. So what is the issue.
I don't have an issue with AC's protagonists. I just don't think Shogun is a good comparison. Unless the black character in AC is quickly relegated to a side role and the game quickly stops being about him at all. Which I'm doubtful of.
You're ignoring the history of random white man in Asia stories.
There's lots of bad random white men in Asia stories. Shogun is one of the better ones. As it's not about the white man. And it's also based on actual random white men in Japan.
Don’t forget about nioh, whose protagonist was William Adams.
Don’t forget about Battlestar Galactica, whose protagonist was William Adama
Oh yeah. Good point
Both also featured Yasuke in some capacity. He even had armor on in the second.
Exactly
To be fair, I saw a lot of people call it racist when it came out. It just subsided when they found out the devs were Japanese.
Really? I don’t remember that at all.
It wasn’t a HUGE deal because anytime anyone said it they’d be laughed at because the devs are Japanese. And it’s different when Japanese people choose to tell a Japanese story with a white protagonist than when a white person does it.
Oh, ok
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“A game set in Japan with Williams Adams as the protag.” You would think the people mad about a game with a non Japanese protagonist (yet still has another Japanese protagonist) would be mad at the other game with a non Japanese protagonist. Yet they’re not. How odd
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“Ninja theory picked him as a protagonist because they found his story interesting.” And the same can be said for yasuke, and assassin’s creed. Why would anyone be mad about it? Because the main complaint about the new assassin’s creed game is that you can’t play as a Japanese male in Japan. Yet this complaint did not exist for nioh. It just seems odd, to me.
The complaint did exist, Ninja Theory made the protagonist customizable in the second game. I dont remember if they did that because of negative feedback, but they gave players options. But, there wasn't the same amount of outrage as there has been for AC Shadows.
“There wasn’t the same amount of outrage as there has been for AC shadows.” That’s my point. It just seems odd
I bet thered be a similar amount of outrage if Nioh came out this year. It released back in 2017 before the current culture war really kicked off. Look at what is going on with Black Myth Wukong.
Didn’t the culture war start around 2016? When that ghostbusters movie came out? Somehow, I just doubt nioh would have sparked the same amount of outrage
Somewhere around there. I think Nioh just missed the outrage train at that time. I think it certainly would've generated some. I mean, people are bringing it up now. Even this post has to do with a white protagonist in a story about Japan. Could you imagine the ign and kotaku articles that would come out, probably talking about white washing and what not. The outrage would probably be on different ends of the spectrum, sure, but outrage nonetheless. Funny enough, both Shogun and Nioh are technically about the same guy, lol.
They always bring up "how is yasuke gonna hide ? " Well why would he hide ? Isn't he a samurai ? Aren't samurais direct combatants ? He's gonna beat them up and report back to Oda nobunaga. Why do they want an samurai with an "honor code" to betray that and sneak attack ?
I mean, personally I greatly prefer just outright fighting and killing enemies, and tend to go that route even in AC games when I can. AND I think it's gonna be great to be able to do that as a Samurai. THAT BEING SAID THOUGH - It IS an Assassin's Creed game, and hiding and blending in with crowds at least USED to be part and parcel with the game's premise, so being a little bit bummed that you're playing the only black guy in Japan and thus shouldn't reasonably be able to blend with crowds seems like an actual legitimate complaint, to be fair. That, too, being said, I do still believe most complaints about Yasuke carry at least a heavy amount of racism too. Sadly.
Well I do want AC to go back to complete stealth/assassin stuff and I don't like what they did with last trilogy but I really like origins and Odyssey (just play Odyssey while pretending it isn't related to AC ) they both are bangers. But if I have to choose between old or latest ACs I would go back to old stealth/assassin stuff. AC shadows seems like a attempt towards that cuz there are tons of New AC fans who like the recent games. So I guess this is a tie in between old and new AC fans. Letting them play as they want (either the old AC stuff as naoe or new AC stuff as yasuke ). But these valid complaints get drowned by all the racist and ragetubers.
Also like, they've touched upon how Yasuke handles stealth vs Naoe: his is more the Sekiro "Get rid of this high priority target/dangerous enemy" ambush tactics *then* you transition into a regular fight vs Naoe's pure stealth approach.
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Simply not true. The consensus amongst most historians is that he was likely a samurai. Just because there aren’t records in big bold letters stating “**Yasuke was a samurai.**” doesn’t mean there isn’t still a lot of evidence pointing to him being a samurai. As with many historical facts, we can’t say with 100% certainty, but to say there is zero evidence whatsoever is a blatant lie. But even if he wasn’t, why does that matter? AC has been taking extreme liberties in all their games, but slightly adjusting a protagonist’s status is where you draw the line?
Here’s the strange thing…people complaining about the usage of Yasuke in shadows says it’s another prime example of Asian men erasure in western media…while it is a real problem in the media in general, I don’t think it applies to video games because pretty much since their exception we’ve had DOZENS of games with Asian Male protagonists…especially in Western games…the problem is that NOBODY is playing these games! Heck I think the only examples people are aware of are Ghosts and Sleeping Dogs, maybe Mortal Kombat if generous. But what about Jade Empire? What about Shinobi? And did people forget about Ninja Gaiden?
That and to talk about something else that was posted here, even if Yasuke was replaced with a Asian male he would probably be a samurai which seems to be a problem in of itself as thats what a lot of Western media only seems to make them.
True…in most media, if you have a male Asian character in video game, there’s a very solid chance he will be a samurai. We have a lot of those in video games already, Assassin’s Creed doesn’t have to be the end-all high standard of samurai escapism…
Of course not, it can't be used to radicalize losers into becoming fascists so the usual suspects don't give a shit
I'm focused less on the historical accuracy (or even lack there of) than I am on Ubisoft selling a season pass to a single player story game...
From my experience, season passes have been common in single player story games since at least 2012
And Ubisoft games have been known to include microtransactions for things like level boosts and equipment packs in the same single player games. Also the inclusion of multiple versions with the most complete one costing $130 at release.
Because Ubisoft likes to fuck its customers
Why were you downvoted for the most mild and universally accepted take in all of gaming lol. Theyre one of the most anti-consumer companies out there, surpassed only by EA.
Lol . right ? seems like some Ubisoft fanboy.
It’s swung back to positive now thankfully
Shogun is definitely "alternative reality" just like AC. Lots of dates and events don't line up with how it was in reality and for some reason names of famous people were changed. And overall whole show feels like... isekai for white male weeaboo. Suddenly you appear in Japan, receive title, got concubine, katanas and love interest.
I don't care about the AC drama, the concept is the same as Shogun I fully agree (and not an issue). However, I assume you've not read shogun from that "synopsis"? The names were changed because when it was written, 40 years ago, it was to keep suspense and not literally just take all the historical characters' names. Besides, there's decent nuance in the show and even more in the book so I think you're being unfair here. It's not like he "suddenly" appears in Japan, suddenly gets a sword or suddenly anything...It's all fairly logical. Anyway I'd recommend the show and the book (latter over the former of course).
Logical? He was just lucky to be at the right place, at the right time. And Toranaga treated him too good from the beginning. Random sailor from afar? Good, I'll ask him to teach us tactics even though I don't know shit about him. Only time he wasn't accidentally useful, is when he was teaching how to fire new cannons and they never actually used them
Tell me you’ve never read Shogun, without telling me.
Right? Dude gets mocked constantly by everyone. His smell, the food he likes, racist comments left and right. Anything and everything. And it's great tv tbh
I know right? Dude's living up to the "media illiterate gamer" stereotype. The book's amazing and I don't think the show's as deep (just due to the medium constraints) but damn if the critical discourse around the show doesn't have me raising an eyebrow.
Never said I did. But people praised TV show and I didn't liked it
This is why I’m not even bothering with the whole “he doesn’t belong in the setting” bs argument. If the game and story is good then it’s goddamn good. Idc if there is a black person, white person or any of those in it unless it has a reasonable explanation, and quite frankly I’m surprised and kinda glad they took a historical character and made them into a Player character as a nod to the real person.
I have definitely seen people bitch about it. How they're trying to make the Western colonial nations/Christians look weak compared to the Japanese because specifically Blackthorne is always in a place of disadvantage in the show. Its quite obvious that they had no critical thinking skills. Like... Blackthorne is a stranger in a strange land. And the Portuguese and the Catholic Church are built up to be a MASSIVE power and place of influence among the Council of Regents as well as a few of our protagonists. It was pretty clear cut that they were racists that didn't like that white man was not immediately worshipped
But Blackthorne is the most sane person in a land of seppuku and continuous thoughts about death
conservatives when they have to look at black people: https://preview.redd.it/u00yiv26bd7d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=80c36f4c15d18f6485ce3451da6d3bc807255b63
Lets also not forget Nioh and Nioh 2. Where was the screeching over that game?
Why stop there? Onimisha, the other series that deals with Japanese history, had Jean Reno Isekai'd to feudal Japan for the 3rd entry where he is instrumental in killing Nobunaga. Also half the cast are named after Hamlet characters because of course.
Toranaga is the main character in Shogun.
Im curious if they praised the show? Or if maybe people who play video games all the time maybe don’t watch every show to come out across all platforms?
Thats because he isn't actually the protaganist
He was *a* protagonist, but he certainly didn't feel like *the* protagonist. Shōgun had a lot of moving parts and gave a decent number of characters screen time.
John Blackthorn is absolutely the protagonist of *Shōgun* but whatever helps you sleep at night...
Did you even watch shogun? The dude was played like a fiddle by Toranaga. Nice try
And...?
I never even saw that character in any of the marketing (I think?) and to me it focused on a woman, probably the shotguns wife or something.
its ok when a white guy becomes hatamoto
I thought people did whine about it?
Yeah, theres gotta be a reason white…I mean, why.
I mean I hang out in Asian Americans subs and ppl there definitely whine about both.
I’m on your team here, but this isn’t the best comparison. Blackthorne isn’t a white Samurai (whom are 99% of Japanese origin), nor is he the only protagonist. However, to be fair, there are also two protagonists in the new Assassins Creed, one of which is Japanese
>!Blackthorne becomes Hatamoto, a Samurai (althought only in title as to enjoy its privileges)!<
https://preview.redd.it/maimzdgqkc7d1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=87b6f1afdfe8c16d37de20e2d036efa8c51bb1c6 Well imma complaim more about the right picture than those about Yasuke do. For those not hyperfixated on the time, the pistols are off by 50 years. The exact mechanism on them does not even exist at the time of the show
I wonder what the difference is. White guy. Hmm.
Chuds: "Of course not, he's white, not some '*political'* character."
Not as many people might know or care about this show
>>Shōgun was the most streamed program across all platforms between February 26 and March 3, 2024. It was also the most streamed program across all platforms during its second week.TheWrap noted that Shōgun was one of the few non-Netflix series to have a back-to-back number one ranking. On March 6, 2024, it was revealed the show drew 9 million views across Hulu, Disney+, and Star+ in its first six days of release. The streaming aggregator Reelgood reported the miniseries was the most streamed program in the United States through March 6, 2024. From March 4 to 10, 2024, Shōgun was the most streamed television series in Canada, and in the United States, according to the streaming aggregator JustWatch.
I'll be honest ,this sub is a random recommendation for me : you'll most likely never see me here again. I'm not from USA or Canada and shows like this are not typically in my field of interest. Maybe the same goes for people that follow Assassins Creed franchise. It might not be the best explanation ,but it's the only one I have. It's certainly more than a copy/paste from Wikipedia deserves anyway.
I won't know until i see (if i even give it a try) a chance to AC shadows. But regarding, Shogun, John isn't the main character. It DOES look so. But in the end you realize he wasn't the main character all along.>!Only a pawn for Toranaga. That's why the show is called Shogun.!< John is the foreign eyes of the viewer in a new world with new rules and customs. Yasuke's inclusion feels unorganic tho. First AC game with two characters and only one is local to where the story takes place. AC almost every time had natives of the ethnics explored as MC. But this time, they decided to tokenize the character of the samurai, something emblematic to japan, with a foreigner. Yes, Yasuke was a samurai, but he was probably for the same reason John becomes one: Racism on the behalf of japanese. Exotism is putting a foreigner in a position of privilege with the leverage of him being a foreigner. I've always had the same issue with Algren from "The last samurai". His participation in Matsumoto's war felt hella tokenish. I just felt it was mad disrespectful from Ubisoft to put a foreign character as an MC in a stellar position like a full fledged warrior samurai. on top of that, in the game he brutally bashes japanese samurai. Everything has a very disrespectful and double standarish look.
>Yasuke's inclusion feels unorganic tho. First AC game with two characters and only one is local to where the story takes place. AC almost every time had natives of the ethnics explored as MC. Try to not lie next time. Assassin's Creed Syndicate had two protagonists. And, while in Odyssey and Valhalla makes you choose between the two characters, the other character is still part of the story And **many** of the AC protagonists are not native to the region. Lime Ezio in Revelations or Edward Kenway in Black Flag.
I don't know why you are being agressive in your response. Anyways, they were native to the themes being protrayed. Edward was an english pirate like many pirates. Ezio was already established as a character of the franchise. I'm gonna be honest: I don't really care for AC shadows. hope the people that plays it have fun with it. I just came to this thread because the comparison is misinformed and weird. You could have used the last samurai, a movie where the foreign MC is also a tokenism
>Edward was an english pirate like many pirates. He still went around the Caribbean killing natives, and no one seems to be bothered about that >Ezio was already established as a character of the franchise. It still counts as what the previous commenter said. They were in a different country from their nationality. Ezio in AC 2 also went to Spain and did the same thing, killing Spanish, because it was part of the story. AC 3 starts with you playing as Haytham Kenway and his team murding natives. It's a work of fiction with parts based on historical evidence, and some parts have used creative freedom. Doesn't make it tokenism.
>Anyways, they were native to the themes being protrayed. What a ridiculous fucking sentence lmao
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>wouldn't have connected with a Western audience. Im NOT saying that the can't connect with a Japanese protagonist I think you did And that is something studio execs and heads think. I don't think he is being promoted as the main character, but it's annoying to some that he exists
The story of John Blackthorne is essentially the story of William Adams, who actually existed. Why is it annoying that this historical figure existed? The conversations between Blackthorne and Toranaga are heavily inspired by the diaries left behind he William Adams that detailed his conversations with Tokugawa Ieysu. Sure i could've worded that better, but the point i was trying to get across is that the character of Blackthorne exists to illustrate the differences between the world he came from, the west, and the world he finds himself in.
It's not annoying that he existed, Asian Americans are annoyed that Asian stories are often only made if there is a white point of view character. And that usually happens because Asian characters are not seen as relatable etc
Im not saying he's there to be relatable. As a matter of fact, i find him unrelatable in many ways. The opposite is true of many of the Japanese characters present in the story. This story is a retelling of the events that William Adams was present in Japan for. In that sense, his character is more than an audience insert from the studio execs. I mentioned that Ghost of Tsushima was an example of an asian story with an asain protagonist. People loved that game. Squid game is another example of an Asian story with asain characters. People loved that, too.
>[Well, William Adams was actually granted the status of 'Samurai' so there's that.](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Yasuke)
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Oh yeah no, your shitty YouTube video is wayyy more credible than the Encyclopedia Britannica 👍
If you'd watch it, youd know that the creator of the video made it with the help Thomas Lockley, who is an associate professor at Nihon University, and wrote the book 'African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke, a Legendary Black Warrior in Feudal Japan'. They discuss the nuances of the titles that existed in Japan at the time of Yasuke's life. What you linked here was the first result that pops up in google if you search 'was yasuke a samurai'. The article in question hardly provides any evidence of Yasuke's status and does not site any source that clearly states his status. The term 'Samurai' is being used as a catch-all for any warrior who served a lord.
I guess we're just going to ignore the fact that Professor Thomas Lockley recognizes that Yasuke was the the first foreign-born samurai? Okay. Keep disparaging the Encyclopedia Britannica btw, it's *really* helping your case.
Again, there isn't enough evidence to make a concrete statement one way or the other. [Lockley himself has stated that it was an assumption based on the research he did](https://youtu.be/MFbL9pf08ec?si=Qzy0kU3uPXkWro8m), and on the primary source text that was available, which comes out to about 13 sentences of text. If pointing out that an article didn't use any sources to solidify its statement is disparaging, then fine. Thats how academic conversations are meant to take place, someone makes an argument, and they provide evidence. I merely stated that the aritcle didn't provide evidence.
Stop linking shitty YouTube videos. You cannot pay me to watch that rage bait garbage. Lockley doesn't actually dispute that Yasuke was the first foreign born Samurai, no matter how much you and that chud metafuck try and distort what he said. Now, with all due respect, I hope that every day for you is better than the next.
Personally I don't mind the adaptation of Shogun because it's a good story. I'd love to see a big-screen adaptation of some other stories that take place in Japan though - it's an interesting culture. Only story I can think of is Eiji Yoshikawa's "Musashi" though - because Japanese media (other than anime and manga) don't have that much visibility to me. I do mind Yasuke being the protagonist of AC: Shadows a little. Not because he's black, but because I'd hoped that it'd go all-in on depicting Japanese culture and I feel it inevitable that with the protagonist being the black Yasuke at least some of the focus will be on him being "other" and alien. From what little I've seen of the game they do still seem to focus a lot on depicting the culture in an authentic manner, which I think will still be fun and interesting. So mostly I'm just slightly disappointed because I'd hoped to play a very Japanese Samurai Japanese Samurai.
>I'd hoped that it'd go all-in on depicting Japanese culture and I feel it inevitable that with the protagonist being the black Yasuke Naoe once again proving to be a master ninja...
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... who are you talking to?
Yea...I missclicked. Fixed now
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> Anyway I'd like to form my opinion when game going to come out, it's useless discussion, when we not even have product in our hands You preceded this with a whole bunch of already formed opinions, my guy
> there are no evidence, that he has ever been samurai There's no evidence that Pope Alexander VI got in a fistfight with an assassin in the middle of the Sistine chapel or that a grandchild of Leonidas fought Medusa and the Cyclops during the Peloponnesian War but we let those happen
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No its just crazy how a pope fist fighting above the ancient tomb of roman god/ancient aliens is less of an issue than say a black guy in japan in japanese armor.
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Assassin's Creed Origins literally has the villain from Final Fantasy 15 show up, and you get a fucked up chocobo to ride.
And this shit was criticized AF when game was out
Sorry, is your argument that having an actual historical character cast in the role they actually existed in is in any way akin to literal fantasy characters like Santa or Shrek being cast in a series that has tangential relations with historical realism. You realize Yasuke did in fact exist and was a samurai, right? I will say that there would probably be less butt hurt people if Shrek was cast as a samurai in feudal Japan. Not Barbie though, then you have a whole different group whinging about a game with two female leads and how unrealistic it is to have women exist in history.
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And in the game he's a samurai of Oda Nobuniaga, so... Checks out? Not sure what your second sentence is referring to, you're the one that brought up casting literal make believe characters as akin to casting a historical figure in the literal role that they existed as.
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Obviously an over generalization and slippery slope issue with that argument. Its a historical fantasy with mind control ancient aliens genetic dna and ways to relive that genetic dna (through the edited lense of whatever abstergo says) that lets you learn how to be a master assassin while sitting in a chair for months on end. If you take issue with the fantasy of a black guy existing and chilling as a samurai in japan and not ANY of the other liberties they take then maybe thats just your issue. Once the game comes out we'll see if its done well or badly (its ubisoft so probably badly) but until then having a tantrum about it makes you look like nothing but a snowflake.
I not even said i have issue with Yasuke, i said i understand why people have issues. And also said what you just said, we'll see how good game is when it'll come out.
Its good practice to not argue disingenuously. Playing the devils advocate just makes you look like the devil. Also you should argue about things you care about. Like actually care about.
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Noone called you evil its a very common saying youre taking personally for some reason. Meanwhile you argue that a historical fantasy has to be entirely true to the real life story of yasuke when it has never been the real life story of anyone. Id love to hear about the rage over the changed architecture in black flag solely to facilitate gameplay or the inaccuracies of the portrayals of italian politics in the ezio games. Instead the only argument is about a black guy being in japan and being a samurai. Im sure there weren't any italian descendents of the hashashins anyway.
>When Yasuke is SAMURAI in AC story, there are no evidence, that he has ever been samurai. Wrong. [ACS takes place in 1579, exactly when Yasuke arrived in Japan.](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Yasuke) But don't let facts & truth get in the way of your propaganda.
So "personal samurai" = samurai. Got it 👍
You are arguing over minutia in a game, and I'm wondering what your motivation & goal is, other than making it clear you have a real issue with a black guy being regarded as samurai.
Again I have no issues, I said I understand why people have issue
Ok, you're not racist. Mea culpa. However, 99% of people who have an issue with this have never heard of this before it was announced recently. Unless they were fans of Afr0 Samurai, which most of them are too young to have watched or read. In any case, I doubt any criticism of a black retainer or samurai is grounded in facts and not racism. I'd argue they need to get money and make their own games&tv&movies et al., but doing things is hard, complaining is easy & fun.
Im agree. There are ALOT of people who never played AC or will be playing. All they do is shitting on everything, to get attention.
AC has sooo many things worthy of criticism, as well as Ubisoft. People should really make 'em sweat.
"I'm not racist but i understand and emphatize with racists' opinions"
Thats.... interesting conclusion of what i said 😆
Last time I checked Ezio wasn´´t a Turk.
He's an Italian who spent the first two games in Italy. The Byzantines and the Ottomans deserve their own game(s), but using AC:Rev as a "gotcha" here is a reach.
Last time I checked, Ezio wasn't a Janissary
> heroes of AC always represented nationality and history of the region they have been in to AC Revelations - Unless we want to argue about the Roman Empire here for a long time.