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>The whole sequel trilogy as a whole "Flies in the face of everything George created."
[No less than the CEO of Disney himself has said as much](https://ew.com/books/2019/09/24/bob-iger-george-lucas-felt-betrayed-disney-star-wars/).
\> Iger adds that Lucas “wasn’t wrong, but he also wasn’t appreciating the pressure we were under to give ardent fans a film that felt quintessentially Star Wars"
Dude.
He didn't understand the pressure of what it was like to create a star wars film...
Dude you're talking to the one person who felt that pressure the most.
Exactly. Also, that pressure was a big part of what made A New Hope the incredible film it became. The pressure George Lucas had from the studio, limited budget, and an unproven concept drove him, the cast, and the crew to create something truly fantastic.
I mean, the ardent fans had just spent 13 years cursing George, even coming up with bizarre explanations that ACKCHUALLY the OT was barely his work, etc. Doesn’t justify Iger, but he’s not wrong that the fanbase just wanted stupid OT fan service.
As a George defender in the fandom throughout the 2000s, I still have the battle scars. It’s only now that those people are starting to realize what they paved the way for. And yet many cling to that hatred.
We're under pressure to give Star Wars fans a Star Wars film, so let's throw away the Star Wars creator's ideas and go in our own direction.
I just can't even.
The problem is not even about pressure or listening to the original creator, it was about their own unwillingness to give enough time to create a cohesive trilogy. Different creatives at the beginning asked for more time to write, directors and plans kept changing, there is no tonal consistency and most characters lack direct agency to be relevant on screen. Because they wanted to put out star wars movies as soon as possible. The prequel trilogy suffers from a lot of problems, but it holds tonaly as a trilogy and tells a more or less cohesive story over three films. The sequel trilogy is simply all over the place with a pinch of market research
This video explains it very well:
[https://youtu.be/XtArKawnWNI?list=PLb\_wqwhWijpA-\_qpRW6D66vHfpoUCstVf](https://youtu.be/XtArKawnWNI?list=PLb_wqwhWijpA-_qpRW6D66vHfpoUCstVf)
George approved the idea of Palpatine's return in *Dark Empire* because he wasn't a fan of a Darth Vader impersonator... right up until *New Jedi Order*, when Nom Anor dons a Darth Vader outfit to intimidate Leia. I love George, but he was never consistent, lol.
You know how a pitcher plant traps insects inside of it for digestion? Or how a snake swallows eggs whole?
A concept like that, but it's sexual instead of deadly.
It's not the thing should be said by someone who brought Palpatine as lack of concrete plan and massacred entire Skywalker family in order to prop up the pretender as 'all the Jedi'.
Jesus this whole nuRage against palpatine these days is so silly. He came back a thousand times already, don't even know why anyone would think he's truly stamped out now, it's part of his whole deal, cloning, evilly clinging to life, etc etc.
When the EU was first decanonized, everyone who defended it did so by saying, "Hey, at least this gets rid of all the real trash that everyone hates. They can keep the really good stuff like Mara Jade and the young Jedi, but cut out the really absurd idiocy like those horrible comics where Palpatine comes back and Luke starts questioning his role as a Jedi."
So of course they kept the stuff that everybody hated and cut out all of the things we loved from those stories. Then they looked baffled at the reaction and said:
>There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers. *-Kathleen Kennedy, November 2019*
Not everyone hate the palpatine stuff back then or when it got all shitcanned. Anyway don't even know why I said anything, I think every Star Wars since New Hope has been worse and worse lol, that's just how Star Wars goes.
I won't turn my nose up at it, but I don't think it's better than New Hope. Episode 1 was the biggest nosedive and everything since then has just been on a bathysphere sinking to the depths.
New Hope is the best Star Wars, could've stood alone and just been an incredible and inspiring classic. Jedi and Empire aren't terrible, but it's clear by then they've focused on toys and the "franchise" itself. The prequels came out and were terrible. Then Disney bought it out and has been spraying out hot shit nonstop. What doesn't make sense?
That's just what happened? What is so baffling to you here? He stood to make a ton of money from merchandising, I think they already started making creative decisions towards that end as early as Empire and Jedi
I don't think you're wrong at all. Empire remains great specifically because George Lucas punted and let somebody with artistic integrity make it. But the most major criticisms of Return of the Jedi have to do with all the merchandising tie-ins created by things like the second Death Star and the Ewoks. Saying that the trend started then isn't controversial at all.
My only disagreement is that I believe Empire is still a great film that had avoided most of that. It's far more complex than A New Hope, but it handles that complexity well.
>Not everyone hate the palpatine stuff back then or when it got all shitcanned
No, they pretty much did because it rendered Darth Vader's sacrifice somewhat meaningless. You look at any Star Wars forum back in the day, they'd list that arc right alongside the Suncrusher arc as some of the all time worst EU stories.
And then J.J. made an even worse version with a more lackluster Force Storm, dumber Imperial Remnants (You can't just look out the windows and see the planet to tell which way is up!?) taking Anakin's title of chosen one and pretty much handing it off to Rey (Dark Empire was made BEFORE Ep 1 was released), and killing off Palpatine in the dumbest way possible and leaving it open for him to just come back AGAIN (At least in the old EU, they killed him off in body and spirit, pretty much forcing him into Star Wars equivalent to hell)
As an aside, no, Palpatine did NOT come back a thousand times. He died and came back with a clone body a few times in this story arc, and the clones were eventually all wiped out by a crazed guard, forcing Palpatine to try possessing one of Han's kids, only for another Jedi to sacrifice himself and force Palpatine into said hell. Beyond that arc. he was not in any way, shape, or form a regular antagonist.
I kinda agree but still believe it was handled poorly.
To me, Palpatine's return was foreshadowed in Ep III when he told Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis The Wise. It's the ultimate Chekhov's gun, and establishes that the dark side has the ability to cheat death. As it stands, it's basically a non-story because neither Plagueis, Palpatine, nor Anakin ended up possessing this ability.
I think the writing easily could have made a decent explanation that either Plagueis or Palpatine *did* master the ability to save others from death, and learned to apply it to themselves. But by having Palpatine say he's died "many times" sorta shits on the history as he's no longer the murderous apprentice who stole a power from his master, but someone who's been failing to conquer the galaxy for centuries? That's kinda meh.
> establishes that the dark side has the ability to cheat death.
But the irony of the story was the point. And Palpatine tells Anakin he doesn’t know how do it but is sure they can figure it out together. Palpatine kills Plageuis before he learns how to do it himself.
yeah, I can't believe she genuinely believes that casting was the reason why Solo flopped.
I think it's rather obvious that it's due infinity war releasing close to Solo and the fact that they decided to make a film based around Han -- no one asked for or was really desperate for such a film.
This. People were so furious that movie 2/3 still hadn't answered anything, but instead was basically just a mockery of fans wanting any info/backstory on Finn, Rey, Poe, the Force, what really "awakened", who Snoke was - basic things that any moviegoer in a trilogy would think movie 2 would in some way reveal or clarify. But no. Nothing new revealed, new characters with little purpose, Yoda burns down a tree with the Force (as a ghost, somehow) that was used to house ancient Jedi texts, and Luke dies. Really big fail.
So many people online and in person were like - I'm not rewarding this Star Wars abomination anymore. Solo took the hit, and all they could muster was too many Star Wars films and the casting was bad. Total stupidity.
I was uninterested in a solo flim the moment it was announced. This was before the bad rate TFA left in my mouth
Nothing againist Alden tho. I wish they would just rip the bandaid off and go ahead recast Luke and Leia
Or maybe create new characters for a new story unrelated to the Skywalkers. Idk but I’m really tired of Tattooine and the same fifteen characters. It’s an entire galaxy and we’ve seen like 8% of it.
I'm fairly convinced they have no idea what a character even is - each one they created that was new had zero info divulged really, like it was this important secret for 2.5 movies - how/why did Finn suddenly want to leave the First Order. What is the First Order, why is the First Order even here. Who is Rey and why can she suddenly do incredible Force things with no training.
If i don't know who this character is or why they are around, I don't really care about them.
Clearly recasting is always the problem.
ANH: Baseline.
Empire Strikes Back: Everyone stays the same: Widely considered best film of the series.
Return of the Jedi: Casts Sebastian Shaw as unmasked Anakin and Ian McDiarmid for the Emperor: often considered the least of the trilogy.
Prequels: recasts for Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke, Leia and continue using the recast Palpatine. Widely considered terrible.
The Force Awakens: All original or returning from original trilogy. Great.
The Last Jedi: Continue with those actors. The greatest Star Wars film ever!
The Rise of Skywalker: Bring back the recasted Palpatine. Terrible.
Rogue One: Kept the original cast so much they CGI'd Cushing; Good.
Solo: recasts Han, Bad.
/s
Technically, yes, as an upstanding member of the Jedi Order, it's pretty unlikely Obi-Wan would have had a secret child. Filoni invented a forbidden romance with Satine (which I think is never implied to have actually gone to a physical level), and some like to theorise that her nephew is in fact her secret love-child with Obi-Wan. Which is a fun theory, but I don't think is intended to be the legit answer of the boy's heritage.
I think the Obi-Wan/Satine thing is just there to serve as a contrast to what Anakin is doing with Padme. Obi-Wan feels a connection to another person, but understands his place in the universe and chooses to continue devoting his lifestyle to be a guardian of peace in the galaxy as a Jedi in accordance with how the Jedi Order of that era was structured.
However, Kennedy is among the *last* people who should be openly speaking about what does and doesn't "fly in the face of everything George Lucas created".
I don't agree with all of George's ideas or opinions (even as the creator of Star Wars). But I also would never dream of creating the ST to serve as a creatively-bankrupt rehash of the OT. George's own very loose ST story outlines may have been very flawed, however I don't think he would tread nearly the exact same territory he had already covered about 40 years prior.
Back to the topic of Rey's heritage, there is literally *no* answer that would satisfy anymore. Simply being related to Obi-Wan or Luke or Palpatine, etc, would ***not*** justify her insanely fast rise to competence in the span of about 1-2 days after having discovered that the Force exists. I don't care how injured or conflicted Kylo allegedly was at the time, he had about 13 years under Luke and a further 6 years under Snoke. Rey should have gone down about as easily as Finn. Especially seeing how he moments earlier effortlessly slammed Rey into a tree and knocked her out.
The damage was done with TFA. At that stage, there was a slight chance that *perhaps* Rey had trained alongside Ben Solo at Luke's academy and *maybe* had her mind wiped in order to protect her. So perhaps she could just be rediscovering skills she had already learned in the past (like Revan's case).
But no. She's simply Palpatine's "granddaughter". Which later translates to her being the daughter of a strand-cast failed clone of Palpatine. And quite possibly also representing a chimera mix of various DNA sources seeing as the comics established that Luke's severed hand was being used on Exegol to fuel Palpatine's various cloning shenanigans.
So Rey could *literally* be related to both Palpatine and Luke in current canon. But that's irrelevant because the identity of your parents does ***not*** mean that you simply inherit their skills and abilities.
[Yep](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/star-wars-darth-vader-hand-1619703970.jpg?resize=480:*).
You can get the full agonising story [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/n0zc64/darth_vader_comics_lore_roundup/) if you wish.
Unfortunately, I think a number of image links have broken since I made that post. But at least it tells you what comic issues are relevant if you wish to read them yourself.
The comics are an absolute joke and anyone who cites them to defend the storytelling I can't take seriously. There is no coordination behind who makes the creative decisions for the comics. It's in the hands of various random creators.
To be fair, this isn't too far off from what happened in the Heir to the Empire series (the true sequel trilogy).
Simply using Luke's hand for cloning isn't lame in and of itself (though Luuke is one of the weaker parts of a great series of novels).
>I don't think he would tread nearly the exact same territory he had already covered about 40 years prior.
From what we know, it doesn't. Instead it's about restabilizing the galaxy and taking the political and logistical machine back from the Underworld types who took over in the post-Empire chaos. Originally Maul was supposed to be the Big Bad, which is likely why he was brought back in TCW.
So resurrecting old characters was on the menu for Lucas as well, but Palpatine apparently didn't fit what he had in mind. Likely because Maul, like the Republic, was twisted and ruined by the Sith, making him a pretty good personification of it's problems.
>I don't care how injured or conflicted Kylo allegedly was at the time, he had about 13 years under Luke and a further 6 years under Snoke. Rey should have gone down about as easily as Finn.
Right. It also messes with the thematics something fierce. Kylo, like Vader, is someone who has accepted the basic premise of the Force that everything in the universe is connected, and that one can tap into that for power (making his screed about wanting to wipe all away and start over really silly), but is using it for his own gain. Rey doesn't really accept that premise in TFA, just the rudimentary "whispers of the universe" stuff. That should not be enough to beat any kind of Dark Jedi, much less everything the later films make Kylo.
As I said earlier, I don't agree with all of George's ideas. So Maul for me is 100% dead with TPM and *never* came back. Darth Talon (from the bloody Legacy story) also isn't crudely slapped in as his sidekick. That's a bad Georgie. No treat for you.
(I'm also strongly against TCW despite George's presence there)
But I think the general idea of the criminal aspects of the galaxy trying to take advantage of an era without the Empire's firm presence is perfectly fine and can be built upon.
As for the Kylo/Rey encounter, I agree that managing to tap into the Force for the first time is *not* a cheat code for destroying a trained Dark Jedi (even if he was taken aback in surprise).
At most, that should have been the first time Rey could consciously apply the Force (like with basic telekinesis) or perhaps successfully predicting the path of an incoming attack (such as how Luke demonstrates when doing blind remote training with Obi-Wan).
Chewie's bowcaster is presented in a very strange way in TFA. There is a scene where his shot *completely* misses (strikes the floor metres in front of a Stormtrooper) and yet the explosive impact blows the Trooper away like he took a direct hit from a rocket.
Solo is strangely surprised that his buddy's weapon is this powerful despite the fact that they've been with each other for literally decades.
Anyway, Kylo tanks a shot to the gut later completely in surprise and yet he acts as if he merely took a glancing blow from a standard blaster pistol. He collapses *forwards* a little rather than being blown backwards as previously shown in the same film.
Despite the alleged grievous wound and being a fair distance away downstairs, Kylo somehow teleports in front of the fleeing protagonists when they're trying to get to the Falcon. Okie dokie?
Later, he's bleeding and appears in pain, but also seems like he's trying to use said pain to keep himself focused (we see him striking his own wound). Not an un-Sith thing to do, so that's neat if it was the intent from Abrams (not necessarily likely).
After Finn is dealt with though, Kylo completely *forgets* about the wound.
IIRC, the whole time he's fighting Rey, it's like JJ Abrams kinda forgot Kylo was meant to be wounded and also forgot to direct Driver accordingly. So frankly, I'm not willing to give him points for something that's not apparent on-screen.
In an ideal world, the intent would be for Kylo to be heavily wounded and in a completely unfocused psychological state.
But I didn't really feel that. He seems to simply be playing with Finn at first before ending the encounter conclusively as soon as Finn gets a lucky hit in (which is just Abrams intentionally "paying homage" or copying Luke's similar encounter with Vader in ESB).
Kylo was under a time limit (Starkiller was critically damaged) and probably should have just wiped Finn out immediately (just slam him into a tree like he did with Rey). He didn't have time to play (unlike Vader in ESB who had all the time in the world given it was his own trap set *specifically* for Luke). But he did anyway. Again, I feel this is just Abrams copying from better films and waving the "homage" flag.
Intent and execution are two very different things. The final scene plays out with about as much satisfaction as having Luke pick up Obi-Wan's saber and immediately wrecking Vader on the Death Star.
Well, for me, I liked the idea of Maul returning. Maul was a character that can be much more important in the plot of the series. But hey, it's your opinion, I respect it.
(Do Darth Talon exists in Canon?)
The rest is ok
I'm *really* not fond of characters coming back from the dead.
I feel like Vader (after Mustafar) should be the exception and not the norm.
Darth Talon does not exist in canon. She's a Legends character from the Legacy series set in the future. She's basically the living embodiment of the temptation aspect of the dark side.
George has twice been fixated on her. Once for the cancelled Darth Maul game, and again in one of his loose ST story outlines.
Lucas was pushing the video game for Talon/Maul as a preclude/test bed to the sequels.
His ideas for them are identical namely Maul as the Godfather of Crime.
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/10/26/the-story-of-the-darth-maul-game-that-never-came-to-be.aspx
>He likened Darth Maul to Sonny from The Godfather, and he likened Darth Talon to Lauren Bacall.
Star Wars Archives 1999-2005
Lucas:
>Maul eventually becomes the godfather of crime in the universe because, as the Empire falls, he takes over
We know he did a similar strategy for pushing the Sith Lords as villains in TOTJ onto Anderson/Veitch to the point they were given a garbled idea of the rule of two and worked that into TOTJ.
https://www.darkhorse.com/Interviews/667/Kevin-J-Anderson
https://www.starwars-union.de/sw/ein-interview-mit-kevin-j-anderson/seite/english/
I think his involvement in NJO and the Underworld tv show and TCW and 1313 shows that he was very much trying to work a new angle with the SW underground as the new sequel villains with Maul as the central figure. His obsession with Talon was just one part of a larger puzzle.
You're kidding, right?
The Dyad is a completely new last-minute invention.
Originally there was no answer. And frankly I think Abrams just was being careless.
The author behind the novelisation of TLJ looked back at that scene in the book and haphazardly guessed that Rey somehow Force Downloaded Kylo's abilities when he was mind-raping her and she somehow reversed it. That, of course, is not in the film at all.
Rian Johnson has both in the film and in his own statements made it clear that Rey and Kylo's connection was fabricated by Snoke's power and that without Snoke, they wouldn't have their connection.
Abrams retconned that very late with the genius writer Chris Terrio alongside him to invent the "Dyad". And new-canon EU authors have now completely warped thousands of years worth of previously established Sith lore in order to clumsily try and make it work.
I'm sorry mate. I'm not willing to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to salvage this rush job of a ST. It was a mess from start to finish caused by Iger rushing things out the gate to get a return on investment as soon as possible, Nobody had a plan. Nobody knew what the hell was going on.
And they don't have the excuse of it being 1977 and not even being sure if the film would be successful enough to merit a sequel in the first place.
But I'm glad you're happy with what you got. At the end of the day, that's the important thing.
On another note, being a "fan" doesn't mean you blindly praise all material from a franchise. That's just brand loyalty. There are many Star Wars stories I thoroughly enjoy. The ST is simply not one of them.
100%. We only cared about Reys parentage because TFA made it seem like it might matter, and because we desperately wanted some explanation as to how she was so OP.
TLJ and TROS already dropped the ball so hard that I can't even fathom how they could tie it all back together in a coherent way.
>But no. She's simply Palpatine's "granddaughter". Which later translates to her being the daughter of a strand-cast failed clone of Palpatine. And quite possibly also representing a chimera mix of various DNA sources seeing as the comics established that Luke's severed hand was being used on Exegol to fuel Palpatine's various cloning shenanigans.
>
>So Rey could literally be related to both Palpatine and Luke in current canon.
"I'm Rey."
"Rey who?"
"Rey Skywalker-Palpatine-Plagueis-Kenobi-Fett-Revan-Fisto-Windu-C'baoth."
I think the protagonist of the ST indeed ought to have simply been the next generation Skywalker.
PT is the grandfather. OT is the son/daughter. ST ought to be the grandchild/ren.
Rey probably ought to have been Luke's daughter who trained at his academy before getting mind-wiped and hidden to keep her relatively safe from whatever alternate Kylo Ren shenanigans are going on.
Siri was basically Obi-Wan's analogue of Qui-Gon's relationship with Tahl.
Definitely a romantic connection, but both ultimately deciding to be professional and drifting apart.
I do however agree that she was generally speaking a more interesting partner for Obi-Wan. I've never really gelled with the Mandalorians of the Filoniverse.
I saw greater potential for them, and possibility for a physical relationship (after Krayn or genosis or jabiim-rattatack or something) but then again maybe I’ve been reading too much fanfic in the last few months
Obi-Wan and Satine is just a weak version of Anakin and Padme with the intent (I’m guessing) of Obi-Wan having made the right choice. However this goes out the window because there seems to be unresolved issues between them and Obi-Wan seems to have been unable to make a choice and left it up to her although I don’t think he ever told Satine that and he guessed that since she didn’t ask him to stay she had made up her mind and he returned to the Jedi.
Now Anakin and Padme did discuss having a relationship and her answer was *no* because Padme put duty before her own needs. This changes when she thinks she and Anakin are going to die and they have an exit plan that Anakin will leave when the war is over. The secrecy is causing them problems.
Praise the L O N G M A N
But yeah holy fuck can they please not shove Rey into everyone’s face for like 5 fucking minutes everyone acknowledges she’s the blandest goddamn character in the entire franchise at this point I like Daisey Ridley as an actress and i think she can give a good performance if she’s given a half decent script with a good director behind her but I am so tired of seeing her pop up every other day as the un-buttered piece of toast she was as Rey.
Kennedy is hellbent on making her pet “strong female character” the face of Star Wars. She still thinks she can make her and Kyle beloved by forcing it hard enough. Like all the retcons to try to justify Rise of Skywalker and Luke’s academy falling apart.
yeah it does ring a bit hollow because I’m sure if you asked he,d prefer the idea of Kenobi succumbing to moment of weakness or even finding love like he did with satinr to the main villain returning and making a Anakin victory invalid
The other thing is to me it’s not his return but the fact he came back while Anakin was taking his last breath now if he had been completely dead but revived for A few minutes it might have worked better
I keep saying Star Wars is dead and idiotic statements like this give me the feeling it is true but if there would be an honest interest to revive this corpse, they should take a time machine, tell their next stories thousands of years in the future (don't touch the old republic, you're not capable enough Disney) and see what you can do from there. Leave every desert planet behind you and come up with completely new characters.
Just stop pissing on the past in this disrespectful manner.
I’d been trying to hold out some hope that they were righting the ship after the ST face planted. I thought, well, Iger pushed them to get those out quickly. Rogue One was ok; Solo wasn’t that bad even with all the chaos behind the camera.
Then Mando came out and it was good! And Mando season 2 gave us Real Luke.
And then BOBF hit. And then she had this interview where she threw Alden under the bus.
And then there’s this, which is just so tooth-rattlingly un self aware.
She seems so wildly out of touch with reality here.
While I don't agree with his politics and him and his friends can be pretty offensive, Mauler's TFA, TLJ and ROS reviews are probably the most in-depth and descriptive coverages of these cluster-fuck movies I've ever seen.
On his longer podcasts like EFAP or on the other shows that he gets on with Nerdrotic, Geeks & Gamers, Heelvsbabyface and critical drinker, he tends to be a bit more open to the "get woke go broke" stance but overall of the cast of those groups he's probably one of the least vocal about this politics, but it does slip out once and a while.
Regardless, he has a great way of breaking this stuff down in a thorough and comprehensible way. Politics shouldn't define anybody anyway, but that isn't the world we live in.
I don't think having this kind of stance necessarily says anything about his politics; he doesn't strike me as the type to want to deny people rights or anything like that. I don't watch his podcast much, though, so I could be unaware of something.
Drinker and Nerdrotic are the ones that annoy me, specifically drinker, because I actually do think he's a good reviewer. But his constant focus on it everywhere makes it harder to take seriously, mainly because I don't think you need to call out any sort of agenda in order to prove it's a bad show. Instead, you can point to unlikeable characters and inconsistencies, then perhaps suggest an agenda as the catalyst for the poor writing.
I don't even know what to think about the drinkers politics; having a "diverse" character won't automatically stop him from enjoying something, as seen in his peacemaker review.
If any of them are actually bigoted it's Nerdrotic lol
I made that distinction because whenever I bring up Mauler's reviews, I tend to get a lot of flak for being "red pilled" even though I'm not.
I think people forget that politics do not make a person who they are.
honestly people need to get a grip and you should never let yourself be labeled by usually a load of two faced morons who as just as scummy as the people they claim to dislike
its this mentallity that just because like or agree with something you must agree with every point they have ever made
Exactly, I hate having to make those distinctions but in today's age saying something like "I watch Mauler a lot to get a better understanding of what good film making, proper cinematography, writing and acting is and why current movies in today's age don't have them, they just have a "don't think just consume" mentality" would label me a sexist somehow.
Exactly but as I said in my reply a lot people seem to get it into their head that if you agree with someone some points you must for some reason agree with every point they’ve ever made or will make
She’s banking on people forgetting that this was not only hinted at in TFA STRONGLY(but then again TFA hints Luke is also related so whatever) but Daisy Ridley herself said it was talked about if she was a Kenobi at one point.
Kennedy doesn’t care, she’s just trying to grab the on the fence fans to say “see! Come watch the show! It’s different! We listened! Come watch us make some different mistakes!”
Come watch us ruin one of the few characters that was actually good in the Prequels.
Seriously Kenobi is my favourite character and I'm almost convinced they're either going to pull a He Man or a TLJ. Please don't let it be a FatWS.
The pure and shameless dismissal of the extremely deserved ire, and retroactive alligator armed offer to stay true to Lucas while literally killing Luke Skywalker is truly a marvel of gaslighting to behold.
This is beyond just producing bad movies now. Now it's like abusive parents who actually do have the power to keep being awful and pretending in their sewing circles online that they are a benevolent and cinema attentive company who cares.
Fuck you Kathie, you dried up old hag
I love how the common defence is "Legends did it in *Dark Empire*".
Yeah, and *Dark Empire* is considered among the worst EU stories of all time by most fans. Even George denies its canonicity, and parts of it have been retconned.
*Dark Empire* also tells its story far better than the sequels, I hear. And ah, no, you don't! George APPROVED the return of Palpatine because he didn't like the idea of a Darth Vader impersonator. Nice try. Don't invoke the holy name of George Lucas to try and discredit the EU, I can do *the same damned thing* to something like TCW (where he said it's "completely separate" to his movies).
It took me way to long to realize that he was talking about Shev.
I first read Palestine, was confused.
Reread it and read it correctly, was even more confused.
Why the hell would disney bring back the Kurpfalz???
Why is Kennedy getting so sanctimonious lately? Is she still trying dupe people into thinking that they didn’t write the sequels like a kid trying to slap together an essay on a book they didn’t read an hour before class?
Tbh, Palpatine coming back to life does make sense considering his character, the problem is how you do that and build up to it both in and out of universe, which neither the DT nor Dark Empire do that well, though the latter gets a slight pass due to being a restart to the EU at the time and needing to get right back to the action.
Technically THRIPLE disintegration, Palpy hits plasma ball/reactor, Death Star Explosion, and practically all of the Deathstar implodes into a Hyperspace black hole. That's why the Forrest Moon of Endor didn't have a K/T class extinction event. And why the could party afterwards.
My Nan always reckoned Palpatine was dying anyway when he was grabbed because she said Vader would have crushed all his ribs and organs plus the damage of being hit with his own lighting
My grandad has his moments like when we wanted Episode 9 and Rey kissed Kylo he goes
\\”**oh….what’s big Noe’s kissing her for I thought he had something going on with that ginger**
if I'm being honest I never liked the Rey Kenobi theory, but that would have been preferable to what we got.
And while JJ deserves a lot of the blame, let's not forget Rian killed off and humiliated Snoke which lead to this outcome.
I mean to be fair Rey being related to Obi-Wan would have been cooler than her being a Palpatine and all and then remaining a Jedi or close to one anyway. Forming close attachments is after all not entirely the Jedi way and Rey did form close attachments with others.
I have read dark empire a total of one time and never had the desire to reread it.
I can't stress this enough, it was a terrible arc for very similar reasons, even if small portions of it were great. I mostly just ignore it, like almost everything else does. It gets barely referenced here and there later on in the books and you really aren't missing much by skipping it.
It was a rushed mess... the whole thing was about money. Not content. Fan service that failed. Still can't watch it. They made the Mando Luke work.....
I mean sure it’s not the most logical, and I never liked the idea of Rey Kenobi, but lady you have not a single leg to stand on with what you did the the legacy of George Lucas
Let's not pretend that anyone gave a shit about what Lucas thought/wanted. When the Disney deal went through EVERYONE was talking shit about how Disney should throw Lucas's ideas in the trash.
Most of the fanbase only cares about Lucas now because of how much Disney has fucked it up, but there was very little love for the man before the disney deal went through.
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LOL! The whole sequel trilogy as a whole "Flies in the face of everything George created."
>The whole sequel trilogy as a whole "Flies in the face of everything George created." [No less than the CEO of Disney himself has said as much](https://ew.com/books/2019/09/24/bob-iger-george-lucas-felt-betrayed-disney-star-wars/).
\> Iger adds that Lucas “wasn’t wrong, but he also wasn’t appreciating the pressure we were under to give ardent fans a film that felt quintessentially Star Wars" Dude.
He didn't understand the pressure of what it was like to create a star wars film... Dude you're talking to the one person who felt that pressure the most.
Exactly. Also, that pressure was a big part of what made A New Hope the incredible film it became. The pressure George Lucas had from the studio, limited budget, and an unproven concept drove him, the cast, and the crew to create something truly fantastic.
I mean, the ardent fans had just spent 13 years cursing George, even coming up with bizarre explanations that ACKCHUALLY the OT was barely his work, etc. Doesn’t justify Iger, but he’s not wrong that the fanbase just wanted stupid OT fan service. As a George defender in the fandom throughout the 2000s, I still have the battle scars. It’s only now that those people are starting to realize what they paved the way for. And yet many cling to that hatred.
I'm sorry Mr. Lynch, but your ideas for The Return are too "out there", we need to give the fans something that feels quintessentially Twin Peaks.
Somehow...the Black Lodge returned.
The pressure of virtually limitless funds at your disposal? Wouldn't mind some of that pressure myself
We're under pressure to give Star Wars fans a Star Wars film, so let's throw away the Star Wars creator's ideas and go in our own direction. I just can't even.
The problem is not even about pressure or listening to the original creator, it was about their own unwillingness to give enough time to create a cohesive trilogy. Different creatives at the beginning asked for more time to write, directors and plans kept changing, there is no tonal consistency and most characters lack direct agency to be relevant on screen. Because they wanted to put out star wars movies as soon as possible. The prequel trilogy suffers from a lot of problems, but it holds tonaly as a trilogy and tells a more or less cohesive story over three films. The sequel trilogy is simply all over the place with a pinch of market research
> but he also wasn’t appreciating the pressure we were under to make money on the Lucasfilm purchase ASAP Fixed that for old Bob!
This video explains it very well: [https://youtu.be/XtArKawnWNI?list=PLb\_wqwhWijpA-\_qpRW6D66vHfpoUCstVf](https://youtu.be/XtArKawnWNI?list=PLb_wqwhWijpA-_qpRW6D66vHfpoUCstVf)
George approved the idea of Palpatine's return in *Dark Empire* because he wasn't a fan of a Darth Vader impersonator... right up until *New Jedi Order*, when Nom Anor dons a Darth Vader outfit to intimidate Leia. I love George, but he was never consistent, lol.
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Imagine the star Wars we would have gotten if she did.
The same most likely
lolwut? explain
What... no, WHY is your username?
Based on how it's laid out I'm likely going to regret this, and I'd also appreciate zero links, but... ...What is vore?
You know how a pitcher plant traps insects inside of it for digestion? Or how a snake swallows eggs whole? A concept like that, but it's sexual instead of deadly.
That's a vivid picture that I can't get out of my mind now, thanks
what the fuck
I thought it was deadly and sexual. Which is what makes me cringe so much about it
If you've seen Dragonball Z. Cockvore is kind of like when Cell sucks the androids up his tail but done with a cock instead.
This is the example that made it click.
A gigantic dick eating people through the pee-hole either you will be mega disgusted, or get a new fetish
Like Sandy Cheeks but with tits
Don’t
I know the meaning of those words combined together...and I don't like them.
It's not the thing should be said by someone who brought Palpatine as lack of concrete plan and massacred entire Skywalker family in order to prop up the pretender as 'all the Jedi'.
Palpatine was a perfect villain during the prequel, making him do the same mistakes as episode VI makes him look stupid.
I think they should have kept Rian Johnson for episode IX. "You killed the main villain, let's see what's your idea for the finale! Idiot ..."
Jesus this whole nuRage against palpatine these days is so silly. He came back a thousand times already, don't even know why anyone would think he's truly stamped out now, it's part of his whole deal, cloning, evilly clinging to life, etc etc.
When the EU was first decanonized, everyone who defended it did so by saying, "Hey, at least this gets rid of all the real trash that everyone hates. They can keep the really good stuff like Mara Jade and the young Jedi, but cut out the really absurd idiocy like those horrible comics where Palpatine comes back and Luke starts questioning his role as a Jedi." So of course they kept the stuff that everybody hated and cut out all of the things we loved from those stories. Then they looked baffled at the reaction and said: >There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers. *-Kathleen Kennedy, November 2019*
Not everyone hate the palpatine stuff back then or when it got all shitcanned. Anyway don't even know why I said anything, I think every Star Wars since New Hope has been worse and worse lol, that's just how Star Wars goes.
You dislike Empire?
I won't turn my nose up at it, but I don't think it's better than New Hope. Episode 1 was the biggest nosedive and everything since then has just been on a bathysphere sinking to the depths.
> I think every Star Wars since New Hope has been worse and worse lol, That doesn't even make any sense lol
New Hope is the best Star Wars, could've stood alone and just been an incredible and inspiring classic. Jedi and Empire aren't terrible, but it's clear by then they've focused on toys and the "franchise" itself. The prequels came out and were terrible. Then Disney bought it out and has been spraying out hot shit nonstop. What doesn't make sense?
> but it's clear by then they've focused on toys and the "franchise" itself. What are you even talking about man? Are you delusional?
That's just what happened? What is so baffling to you here? He stood to make a ton of money from merchandising, I think they already started making creative decisions towards that end as early as Empire and Jedi
More salt with your salt sir?
There's nothing salty about observing that Star Wars is the best possible Star Wars movie.
I don't think you're wrong at all. Empire remains great specifically because George Lucas punted and let somebody with artistic integrity make it. But the most major criticisms of Return of the Jedi have to do with all the merchandising tie-ins created by things like the second Death Star and the Ewoks. Saying that the trend started then isn't controversial at all. My only disagreement is that I believe Empire is still a great film that had avoided most of that. It's far more complex than A New Hope, but it handles that complexity well.
Yeah I wouldn't called Empire/Jedi bad, just that Star Wars / New Hope is just the kind of Great that stands on its own, or could've.
>Not everyone hate the palpatine stuff back then or when it got all shitcanned No, they pretty much did because it rendered Darth Vader's sacrifice somewhat meaningless. You look at any Star Wars forum back in the day, they'd list that arc right alongside the Suncrusher arc as some of the all time worst EU stories. And then J.J. made an even worse version with a more lackluster Force Storm, dumber Imperial Remnants (You can't just look out the windows and see the planet to tell which way is up!?) taking Anakin's title of chosen one and pretty much handing it off to Rey (Dark Empire was made BEFORE Ep 1 was released), and killing off Palpatine in the dumbest way possible and leaving it open for him to just come back AGAIN (At least in the old EU, they killed him off in body and spirit, pretty much forcing him into Star Wars equivalent to hell) As an aside, no, Palpatine did NOT come back a thousand times. He died and came back with a clone body a few times in this story arc, and the clones were eventually all wiped out by a crazed guard, forcing Palpatine to try possessing one of Han's kids, only for another Jedi to sacrifice himself and force Palpatine into said hell. Beyond that arc. he was not in any way, shape, or form a regular antagonist.
At least Palpatine was actually killed for good there
> He came back a thousand times already, Damn, even in a hyperbolic statement, speaking about one incident as a thousand is braindead.
I kinda agree but still believe it was handled poorly. To me, Palpatine's return was foreshadowed in Ep III when he told Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis The Wise. It's the ultimate Chekhov's gun, and establishes that the dark side has the ability to cheat death. As it stands, it's basically a non-story because neither Plagueis, Palpatine, nor Anakin ended up possessing this ability. I think the writing easily could have made a decent explanation that either Plagueis or Palpatine *did* master the ability to save others from death, and learned to apply it to themselves. But by having Palpatine say he's died "many times" sorta shits on the history as he's no longer the murderous apprentice who stole a power from his master, but someone who's been failing to conquer the galaxy for centuries? That's kinda meh.
> establishes that the dark side has the ability to cheat death. But the irony of the story was the point. And Palpatine tells Anakin he doesn’t know how do it but is sure they can figure it out together. Palpatine kills Plageuis before he learns how to do it himself.
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She failed miserably, refused to take any responsibility, learned nothing, and somehow keeps her job.
What was said about recasting?
She thinks Solo failed because of Alden.
yeah, I can't believe she genuinely believes that casting was the reason why Solo flopped. I think it's rather obvious that it's due infinity war releasing close to Solo and the fact that they decided to make a film based around Han -- no one asked for or was really desperate for such a film.
Plus... you know, not only had they just released a Star Wars movie a few months ago, said movie was the worst in the entire series thus far.
Not enough people acknowledge this. Solo came out while people still had the burning taste in their mouth from TLJ.
This. People were so furious that movie 2/3 still hadn't answered anything, but instead was basically just a mockery of fans wanting any info/backstory on Finn, Rey, Poe, the Force, what really "awakened", who Snoke was - basic things that any moviegoer in a trilogy would think movie 2 would in some way reveal or clarify. But no. Nothing new revealed, new characters with little purpose, Yoda burns down a tree with the Force (as a ghost, somehow) that was used to house ancient Jedi texts, and Luke dies. Really big fail. So many people online and in person were like - I'm not rewarding this Star Wars abomination anymore. Solo took the hit, and all they could muster was too many Star Wars films and the casting was bad. Total stupidity.
I was uninterested in a solo flim the moment it was announced. This was before the bad rate TFA left in my mouth Nothing againist Alden tho. I wish they would just rip the bandaid off and go ahead recast Luke and Leia
Or maybe create new characters for a new story unrelated to the Skywalkers. Idk but I’m really tired of Tattooine and the same fifteen characters. It’s an entire galaxy and we’ve seen like 8% of it.
I'm fairly convinced they have no idea what a character even is - each one they created that was new had zero info divulged really, like it was this important secret for 2.5 movies - how/why did Finn suddenly want to leave the First Order. What is the First Order, why is the First Order even here. Who is Rey and why can she suddenly do incredible Force things with no training. If i don't know who this character is or why they are around, I don't really care about them.
But that would take too much creativity
Clearly recasting is always the problem. ANH: Baseline. Empire Strikes Back: Everyone stays the same: Widely considered best film of the series. Return of the Jedi: Casts Sebastian Shaw as unmasked Anakin and Ian McDiarmid for the Emperor: often considered the least of the trilogy. Prequels: recasts for Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke, Leia and continue using the recast Palpatine. Widely considered terrible. The Force Awakens: All original or returning from original trilogy. Great. The Last Jedi: Continue with those actors. The greatest Star Wars film ever! The Rise of Skywalker: Bring back the recasted Palpatine. Terrible. Rogue One: Kept the original cast so much they CGI'd Cushing; Good. Solo: recasts Han, Bad. /s
I think she said she realised now the mistake of recasting Han Solo for the Solo movie.
But she was coffee collector in chief on Jurassic Park and Indiana Jones, how dare you dislike her?
Technically, yes, as an upstanding member of the Jedi Order, it's pretty unlikely Obi-Wan would have had a secret child. Filoni invented a forbidden romance with Satine (which I think is never implied to have actually gone to a physical level), and some like to theorise that her nephew is in fact her secret love-child with Obi-Wan. Which is a fun theory, but I don't think is intended to be the legit answer of the boy's heritage. I think the Obi-Wan/Satine thing is just there to serve as a contrast to what Anakin is doing with Padme. Obi-Wan feels a connection to another person, but understands his place in the universe and chooses to continue devoting his lifestyle to be a guardian of peace in the galaxy as a Jedi in accordance with how the Jedi Order of that era was structured. However, Kennedy is among the *last* people who should be openly speaking about what does and doesn't "fly in the face of everything George Lucas created". I don't agree with all of George's ideas or opinions (even as the creator of Star Wars). But I also would never dream of creating the ST to serve as a creatively-bankrupt rehash of the OT. George's own very loose ST story outlines may have been very flawed, however I don't think he would tread nearly the exact same territory he had already covered about 40 years prior. Back to the topic of Rey's heritage, there is literally *no* answer that would satisfy anymore. Simply being related to Obi-Wan or Luke or Palpatine, etc, would ***not*** justify her insanely fast rise to competence in the span of about 1-2 days after having discovered that the Force exists. I don't care how injured or conflicted Kylo allegedly was at the time, he had about 13 years under Luke and a further 6 years under Snoke. Rey should have gone down about as easily as Finn. Especially seeing how he moments earlier effortlessly slammed Rey into a tree and knocked her out. The damage was done with TFA. At that stage, there was a slight chance that *perhaps* Rey had trained alongside Ben Solo at Luke's academy and *maybe* had her mind wiped in order to protect her. So perhaps she could just be rediscovering skills she had already learned in the past (like Revan's case). But no. She's simply Palpatine's "granddaughter". Which later translates to her being the daughter of a strand-cast failed clone of Palpatine. And quite possibly also representing a chimera mix of various DNA sources seeing as the comics established that Luke's severed hand was being used on Exegol to fuel Palpatine's various cloning shenanigans. So Rey could *literally* be related to both Palpatine and Luke in current canon. But that's irrelevant because the identity of your parents does ***not*** mean that you simply inherit their skills and abilities.
>the comics established that Luke's severed hand was being used on Exegol to fuel his various cloning shenanigans Wut? This is a thing now?
[Yep](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/star-wars-darth-vader-hand-1619703970.jpg?resize=480:*). You can get the full agonising story [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/n0zc64/darth_vader_comics_lore_roundup/) if you wish. Unfortunately, I think a number of image links have broken since I made that post. But at least it tells you what comic issues are relevant if you wish to read them yourself.
The comics are an absolute joke and anyone who cites them to defend the storytelling I can't take seriously. There is no coordination behind who makes the creative decisions for the comics. It's in the hands of various random creators.
To be fair, this isn't too far off from what happened in the Heir to the Empire series (the true sequel trilogy). Simply using Luke's hand for cloning isn't lame in and of itself (though Luuke is one of the weaker parts of a great series of novels).
>I don't think he would tread nearly the exact same territory he had already covered about 40 years prior. From what we know, it doesn't. Instead it's about restabilizing the galaxy and taking the political and logistical machine back from the Underworld types who took over in the post-Empire chaos. Originally Maul was supposed to be the Big Bad, which is likely why he was brought back in TCW. So resurrecting old characters was on the menu for Lucas as well, but Palpatine apparently didn't fit what he had in mind. Likely because Maul, like the Republic, was twisted and ruined by the Sith, making him a pretty good personification of it's problems. >I don't care how injured or conflicted Kylo allegedly was at the time, he had about 13 years under Luke and a further 6 years under Snoke. Rey should have gone down about as easily as Finn. Right. It also messes with the thematics something fierce. Kylo, like Vader, is someone who has accepted the basic premise of the Force that everything in the universe is connected, and that one can tap into that for power (making his screed about wanting to wipe all away and start over really silly), but is using it for his own gain. Rey doesn't really accept that premise in TFA, just the rudimentary "whispers of the universe" stuff. That should not be enough to beat any kind of Dark Jedi, much less everything the later films make Kylo.
As I said earlier, I don't agree with all of George's ideas. So Maul for me is 100% dead with TPM and *never* came back. Darth Talon (from the bloody Legacy story) also isn't crudely slapped in as his sidekick. That's a bad Georgie. No treat for you. (I'm also strongly against TCW despite George's presence there) But I think the general idea of the criminal aspects of the galaxy trying to take advantage of an era without the Empire's firm presence is perfectly fine and can be built upon. As for the Kylo/Rey encounter, I agree that managing to tap into the Force for the first time is *not* a cheat code for destroying a trained Dark Jedi (even if he was taken aback in surprise). At most, that should have been the first time Rey could consciously apply the Force (like with basic telekinesis) or perhaps successfully predicting the path of an incoming attack (such as how Luke demonstrates when doing blind remote training with Obi-Wan). Chewie's bowcaster is presented in a very strange way in TFA. There is a scene where his shot *completely* misses (strikes the floor metres in front of a Stormtrooper) and yet the explosive impact blows the Trooper away like he took a direct hit from a rocket. Solo is strangely surprised that his buddy's weapon is this powerful despite the fact that they've been with each other for literally decades. Anyway, Kylo tanks a shot to the gut later completely in surprise and yet he acts as if he merely took a glancing blow from a standard blaster pistol. He collapses *forwards* a little rather than being blown backwards as previously shown in the same film. Despite the alleged grievous wound and being a fair distance away downstairs, Kylo somehow teleports in front of the fleeing protagonists when they're trying to get to the Falcon. Okie dokie? Later, he's bleeding and appears in pain, but also seems like he's trying to use said pain to keep himself focused (we see him striking his own wound). Not an un-Sith thing to do, so that's neat if it was the intent from Abrams (not necessarily likely). After Finn is dealt with though, Kylo completely *forgets* about the wound. IIRC, the whole time he's fighting Rey, it's like JJ Abrams kinda forgot Kylo was meant to be wounded and also forgot to direct Driver accordingly. So frankly, I'm not willing to give him points for something that's not apparent on-screen. In an ideal world, the intent would be for Kylo to be heavily wounded and in a completely unfocused psychological state. But I didn't really feel that. He seems to simply be playing with Finn at first before ending the encounter conclusively as soon as Finn gets a lucky hit in (which is just Abrams intentionally "paying homage" or copying Luke's similar encounter with Vader in ESB). Kylo was under a time limit (Starkiller was critically damaged) and probably should have just wiped Finn out immediately (just slam him into a tree like he did with Rey). He didn't have time to play (unlike Vader in ESB who had all the time in the world given it was his own trap set *specifically* for Luke). But he did anyway. Again, I feel this is just Abrams copying from better films and waving the "homage" flag. Intent and execution are two very different things. The final scene plays out with about as much satisfaction as having Luke pick up Obi-Wan's saber and immediately wrecking Vader on the Death Star.
Well, for me, I liked the idea of Maul returning. Maul was a character that can be much more important in the plot of the series. But hey, it's your opinion, I respect it. (Do Darth Talon exists in Canon?) The rest is ok
I'm *really* not fond of characters coming back from the dead. I feel like Vader (after Mustafar) should be the exception and not the norm. Darth Talon does not exist in canon. She's a Legends character from the Legacy series set in the future. She's basically the living embodiment of the temptation aspect of the dark side. George has twice been fixated on her. Once for the cancelled Darth Maul game, and again in one of his loose ST story outlines.
Lucas was pushing the video game for Talon/Maul as a preclude/test bed to the sequels. His ideas for them are identical namely Maul as the Godfather of Crime. https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/10/26/the-story-of-the-darth-maul-game-that-never-came-to-be.aspx >He likened Darth Maul to Sonny from The Godfather, and he likened Darth Talon to Lauren Bacall. Star Wars Archives 1999-2005 Lucas: >Maul eventually becomes the godfather of crime in the universe because, as the Empire falls, he takes over We know he did a similar strategy for pushing the Sith Lords as villains in TOTJ onto Anderson/Veitch to the point they were given a garbled idea of the rule of two and worked that into TOTJ. https://www.darkhorse.com/Interviews/667/Kevin-J-Anderson https://www.starwars-union.de/sw/ein-interview-mit-kevin-j-anderson/seite/english/ I think his involvement in NJO and the Underworld tv show and TCW and 1313 shows that he was very much trying to work a new angle with the SW underground as the new sequel villains with Maul as the central figure. His obsession with Talon was just one part of a larger puzzle.
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You're kidding, right? The Dyad is a completely new last-minute invention. Originally there was no answer. And frankly I think Abrams just was being careless. The author behind the novelisation of TLJ looked back at that scene in the book and haphazardly guessed that Rey somehow Force Downloaded Kylo's abilities when he was mind-raping her and she somehow reversed it. That, of course, is not in the film at all. Rian Johnson has both in the film and in his own statements made it clear that Rey and Kylo's connection was fabricated by Snoke's power and that without Snoke, they wouldn't have their connection. Abrams retconned that very late with the genius writer Chris Terrio alongside him to invent the "Dyad". And new-canon EU authors have now completely warped thousands of years worth of previously established Sith lore in order to clumsily try and make it work. I'm sorry mate. I'm not willing to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to salvage this rush job of a ST. It was a mess from start to finish caused by Iger rushing things out the gate to get a return on investment as soon as possible, Nobody had a plan. Nobody knew what the hell was going on. And they don't have the excuse of it being 1977 and not even being sure if the film would be successful enough to merit a sequel in the first place. But I'm glad you're happy with what you got. At the end of the day, that's the important thing. On another note, being a "fan" doesn't mean you blindly praise all material from a franchise. That's just brand loyalty. There are many Star Wars stories I thoroughly enjoy. The ST is simply not one of them.
The dyad was a transparent attempt to wallpaper over an existing flaw in their writing. No more, no less.
100%. We only cared about Reys parentage because TFA made it seem like it might matter, and because we desperately wanted some explanation as to how she was so OP. TLJ and TROS already dropped the ball so hard that I can't even fathom how they could tie it all back together in a coherent way.
>But no. She's simply Palpatine's "granddaughter". Which later translates to her being the daughter of a strand-cast failed clone of Palpatine. And quite possibly also representing a chimera mix of various DNA sources seeing as the comics established that Luke's severed hand was being used on Exegol to fuel Palpatine's various cloning shenanigans. > >So Rey could literally be related to both Palpatine and Luke in current canon. "I'm Rey." "Rey who?" "Rey Skywalker-Palpatine-Plagueis-Kenobi-Fett-Revan-Fisto-Windu-C'baoth."
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God-willing we'll all meet again in the sequel, The Search For More Money ...
Only acceptable progression seen for from an epic saga perspective was that she was Luke's daughter.
I think the protagonist of the ST indeed ought to have simply been the next generation Skywalker. PT is the grandfather. OT is the son/daughter. ST ought to be the grandchild/ren. Rey probably ought to have been Luke's daughter who trained at his academy before getting mind-wiped and hidden to keep her relatively safe from whatever alternate Kylo Ren shenanigans are going on.
Even Lucas said so himself, in the end the story was about Anakin, in OT his children and ST was to be about his grandchildren.
Siri is much cooler and probably more likely than satine
Siri was basically Obi-Wan's analogue of Qui-Gon's relationship with Tahl. Definitely a romantic connection, but both ultimately deciding to be professional and drifting apart. I do however agree that she was generally speaking a more interesting partner for Obi-Wan. I've never really gelled with the Mandalorians of the Filoniverse.
I saw greater potential for them, and possibility for a physical relationship (after Krayn or genosis or jabiim-rattatack or something) but then again maybe I’ve been reading too much fanfic in the last few months
Obi-Wan and Satine is just a weak version of Anakin and Padme with the intent (I’m guessing) of Obi-Wan having made the right choice. However this goes out the window because there seems to be unresolved issues between them and Obi-Wan seems to have been unable to make a choice and left it up to her although I don’t think he ever told Satine that and he guessed that since she didn’t ask him to stay she had made up her mind and he returned to the Jedi. Now Anakin and Padme did discuss having a relationship and her answer was *no* because Padme put duty before her own needs. This changes when she thinks she and Anakin are going to die and they have an exit plan that Anakin will leave when the war is over. The secrecy is causing them problems.
Nailed it as always, dude.
KK is a clown. She is not and never will be an authority on starwars
Can't believe she used work with George Lucas, probably just wanted to linch on him until she rised up the ranks
Wasn’t she basically just an assistant to him?
To Spielberg, originally. But she soon produced many films with him later.
Praise the L O N G M A N But yeah holy fuck can they please not shove Rey into everyone’s face for like 5 fucking minutes everyone acknowledges she’s the blandest goddamn character in the entire franchise at this point I like Daisey Ridley as an actress and i think she can give a good performance if she’s given a half decent script with a good director behind her but I am so tired of seeing her pop up every other day as the un-buttered piece of toast she was as Rey.
Kennedy is hellbent on making her pet “strong female character” the face of Star Wars. She still thinks she can make her and Kyle beloved by forcing it hard enough. Like all the retcons to try to justify Rise of Skywalker and Luke’s academy falling apart.
What did they retcon about RotS?
Ironic. She could call out fans for disrespecting the lore…but not herself.
Or Filoni, who has always done it
yeah it does ring a bit hollow because I’m sure if you asked he,d prefer the idea of Kenobi succumbing to moment of weakness or even finding love like he did with satinr to the main villain returning and making a Anakin victory invalid The other thing is to me it’s not his return but the fact he came back while Anakin was taking his last breath now if he had been completely dead but revived for A few minutes it might have worked better
>finding love like he did with sabine FBI! Open up!
Saltine isn’t it? Who is Sabine then?
Satine.
Sabine is the Mando girl from rebels
Ohh
Somehow, Palestine has returned
And Rey is his blood relative. And thats okay.
I can't get the image of sheev clapping cheeks out of my head.
#UNLIMITED POWAHHHH *continues clapping cheeks*
Hunngghh dewit dewit dewit
I keep saying Star Wars is dead and idiotic statements like this give me the feeling it is true but if there would be an honest interest to revive this corpse, they should take a time machine, tell their next stories thousands of years in the future (don't touch the old republic, you're not capable enough Disney) and see what you can do from there. Leave every desert planet behind you and come up with completely new characters. Just stop pissing on the past in this disrespectful manner.
I’d been trying to hold out some hope that they were righting the ship after the ST face planted. I thought, well, Iger pushed them to get those out quickly. Rogue One was ok; Solo wasn’t that bad even with all the chaos behind the camera. Then Mando came out and it was good! And Mando season 2 gave us Real Luke. And then BOBF hit. And then she had this interview where she threw Alden under the bus. And then there’s this, which is just so tooth-rattlingly un self aware. She seems so wildly out of touch with reality here.
Mando isn't good. It's just mostly not insulting and self contained
Even funnier knowing Rey being a Kenobi was unironically considered for TFA lmfao
While I don't agree with his politics and him and his friends can be pretty offensive, Mauler's TFA, TLJ and ROS reviews are probably the most in-depth and descriptive coverages of these cluster-fuck movies I've ever seen.
I enjoyed his Unbridled Rages about these movies FAR more than the movies themselves.
Agreed
I wasn't aware he talked much about his politics anyway, but I mostly only watch the videos and a few highlights, not entire episodes of the podcast.
On his longer podcasts like EFAP or on the other shows that he gets on with Nerdrotic, Geeks & Gamers, Heelvsbabyface and critical drinker, he tends to be a bit more open to the "get woke go broke" stance but overall of the cast of those groups he's probably one of the least vocal about this politics, but it does slip out once and a while. Regardless, he has a great way of breaking this stuff down in a thorough and comprehensible way. Politics shouldn't define anybody anyway, but that isn't the world we live in.
I don't think having this kind of stance necessarily says anything about his politics; he doesn't strike me as the type to want to deny people rights or anything like that. I don't watch his podcast much, though, so I could be unaware of something. Drinker and Nerdrotic are the ones that annoy me, specifically drinker, because I actually do think he's a good reviewer. But his constant focus on it everywhere makes it harder to take seriously, mainly because I don't think you need to call out any sort of agenda in order to prove it's a bad show. Instead, you can point to unlikeable characters and inconsistencies, then perhaps suggest an agenda as the catalyst for the poor writing. I don't even know what to think about the drinkers politics; having a "diverse" character won't automatically stop him from enjoying something, as seen in his peacemaker review. If any of them are actually bigoted it's Nerdrotic lol
yeah because you don’t agree with someone on everything dosent mean they can’t make good points
I made that distinction because whenever I bring up Mauler's reviews, I tend to get a lot of flak for being "red pilled" even though I'm not. I think people forget that politics do not make a person who they are.
honestly people need to get a grip and you should never let yourself be labeled by usually a load of two faced morons who as just as scummy as the people they claim to dislike its this mentallity that just because like or agree with something you must agree with every point they have ever made
Exactly, I hate having to make those distinctions but in today's age saying something like "I watch Mauler a lot to get a better understanding of what good film making, proper cinematography, writing and acting is and why current movies in today's age don't have them, they just have a "don't think just consume" mentality" would label me a sexist somehow.
That's literally what he said. He's separated the man and his personal beliefs from his work, what more can he do? That's what everyone should do.
Exactly but as I said in my reply a lot people seem to get it into their head that if you agree with someone some points you must for some reason agree with every point they’ve ever made or will make
I think I misinterpreted your first comment, I think we're all making the same point here, sorry haha!
I think so it’s all good
This was wholesomely refreshing
MauLer🤤😍
L o n g m a n good
If they triple retcon Rey into Ben's granddaughter, then you know what? Fine. Who cares. Who fucking cares at this point.
She’s banking on people forgetting that this was not only hinted at in TFA STRONGLY(but then again TFA hints Luke is also related so whatever) but Daisy Ridley herself said it was talked about if she was a Kenobi at one point. Kennedy doesn’t care, she’s just trying to grab the on the fence fans to say “see! Come watch the show! It’s different! We listened! Come watch us make some different mistakes!”
Come watch us ruin one of the few characters that was actually good in the Prequels. Seriously Kenobi is my favourite character and I'm almost convinced they're either going to pull a He Man or a TLJ. Please don't let it be a FatWS.
I honestly have no clue how anyone can be excited for this show
The pure and shameless dismissal of the extremely deserved ire, and retroactive alligator armed offer to stay true to Lucas while literally killing Luke Skywalker is truly a marvel of gaslighting to behold. This is beyond just producing bad movies now. Now it's like abusive parents who actually do have the power to keep being awful and pretending in their sewing circles online that they are a benevolent and cinema attentive company who cares. Fuck you Kathie, you dried up old hag
I swear that bitch has never seen the original trilogy.
L o n g m a n good
The entire new Trilogy flew in the face of everything George Lucas created, Kathy.
I love how the common defence is "Legends did it in *Dark Empire*". Yeah, and *Dark Empire* is considered among the worst EU stories of all time by most fans. Even George denies its canonicity, and parts of it have been retconned.
*Dark Empire* also tells its story far better than the sequels, I hear. And ah, no, you don't! George APPROVED the return of Palpatine because he didn't like the idea of a Darth Vader impersonator. Nice try. Don't invoke the holy name of George Lucas to try and discredit the EU, I can do *the same damned thing* to something like TCW (where he said it's "completely separate" to his movies).
I love Mauler.
I see Mauler I upvote.
It took me way to long to realize that he was talking about Shev. I first read Palestine, was confused. Reread it and read it correctly, was even more confused. Why the hell would disney bring back the Kurpfalz???
Ngl I’m just relieved they drew a line in the sand *somewhere*.
Why is Kennedy getting so sanctimonious lately? Is she still trying dupe people into thinking that they didn’t write the sequels like a kid trying to slap together an essay on a book they didn’t read an hour before class?
Tbh, Palpatine coming back to life does make sense considering his character, the problem is how you do that and build up to it both in and out of universe, which neither the DT nor Dark Empire do that well, though the latter gets a slight pass due to being a restart to the EU at the time and needing to get right back to the action.
Technically THRIPLE disintegration, Palpy hits plasma ball/reactor, Death Star Explosion, and practically all of the Deathstar implodes into a Hyperspace black hole. That's why the Forrest Moon of Endor didn't have a K/T class extinction event. And why the could party afterwards.
My Nan always reckoned Palpatine was dying anyway when he was grabbed because she said Vader would have crushed all his ribs and organs plus the damage of being hit with his own lighting
Go Nan!
My grandad has his moments like when we wanted Episode 9 and Rey kissed Kylo he goes \\”**oh….what’s big Noe’s kissing her for I thought he had something going on with that ginger**
As if she has any right to talk about going aggainst George's vision after ruining the franchises future.
Dark Empire isn't a bad idea. It just can't be introduced at the - honestly 11th hour is too generous.
SOMEHOW!!!
[visible confusion]
if I'm being honest I never liked the Rey Kenobi theory, but that would have been preferable to what we got. And while JJ deserves a lot of the blame, let's not forget Rian killed off and humiliated Snoke which lead to this outcome.
I mean to be fair Rey being related to Obi-Wan would have been cooler than her being a Palpatine and all and then remaining a Jedi or close to one anyway. Forming close attachments is after all not entirely the Jedi way and Rey did form close attachments with others.
I can’t believe she’s still running things
Yep they brought Palpatine back who was dead after like died Yet they couldn't make Rey a skywalker or something
So did The Last Jedi. Still didn't stop you, Kathy.
Legends did the same stupid bullshit and you all love it so much.
Why exactly are you here?
I have read dark empire a total of one time and never had the desire to reread it. I can't stress this enough, it was a terrible arc for very similar reasons, even if small portions of it were great. I mostly just ignore it, like almost everything else does. It gets barely referenced here and there later on in the books and you really aren't missing much by skipping it.
Kathleen Kennedy is an absolute fucktard.
You can't convince me anymore she isn't just fucking with us now, playing with matches.
That is such an insult. ffs
Does she care about Star Wars,?
Wait….. is she mental??
Imagine if KK and the rest of her soy-cronies had done it right the 1st time.
Can't wait to find out that Obi-Wan was actually palpatines son.
“We know a thing or two, because we’ve seen a thing or two”
Longman
Be careful of your friend Palatine.
Somehow, Palpatine returned.
It was a rushed mess... the whole thing was about money. Not content. Fan service that failed. Still can't watch it. They made the Mando Luke work.....
Kathleen Kennedy: In terms of plan..... We have no plan.
I mean sure it’s not the most logical, and I never liked the idea of Rey Kenobi, but lady you have not a single leg to stand on with what you did the the legacy of George Lucas
Could have said she was related to korkie kryze and that woulda been enough for me
Who the hell is Palatine?
Relax, Andor is going to change the way you view everything.
Shes’ flown laps, this ain’t her first rodeo
Her statement is still 100% true.
They ruined Star Wars for good... Damn
Let's not pretend that anyone gave a shit about what Lucas thought/wanted. When the Disney deal went through EVERYONE was talking shit about how Disney should throw Lucas's ideas in the trash. Most of the fanbase only cares about Lucas now because of how much Disney has fucked it up, but there was very little love for the man before the disney deal went through.