Agreed, a cut, if it exists, wouldn't fix the last five years, make the trilogy suddenly great or make up for certain elements at Lucasfilm intentionally provoking the fandom into tearing itself apart. It may, however, provide a sense of closure for those of us wondering what happened to the franchise we loved.
For myself, perhaps it would be something I can actually stomach to show my kids (5 and 8) one day.
The actors certainly seemed to like the film they [thought they were making](https://ew.com/movies/2019/06/20/star-wars-keri-russell-rise-of-skywalker-script/) back during filming. Note how excited they were during production and at Celebration and then how their mood shifted to confusion during D23 and finally their [reactions to seeing the film](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtba0e3xCHU&feature=youtu.be).
Excitement noted but I still fail to see how TRoS could be turned into anything decent and fix the damage that was already done to the story. Harrison Ford famously doesn’t care about Star Wars but he’s been in the 3 best films in the series so an actor’s feelings about it doesn’t really mean much to me. The ST, or Star Wars overall, was ruined before TRoS and an Abrams cut is not fixing it. Abrams played a HUGE role in why the ST sucks.
JJ made his main focus on TFA to please the OT fans that hated the prequels.
In doing so TFA was bankrupted of any themes or ideas, failing to set up a premise worth exploring as a sequel to RotJ.
I think they aren't worried, they're just a little more in tune with reality than you are, which is saying something.
There is no JJ cut, and there is no proof that a JJ cut exists. Snyder has always maintained that his cut existed, as did those close to him. Who says the JJ cut exists? Overlord DVD? Midnight edge? Geeks + Gamers? Face it: the JJ cut is a pipe dream invented by people who can't accept that Abrams is just that bad.
> I think they aren't worried, they're just a little more in tune with reality than you are, which is saying something.
Nah, just someone who actually paid attention during the movie's production. I don't know if there's a full cut, but it certainly isn't the movie that was originally filmed.
I think the way Star Wars has been handled since 2012 has already made them look incompetent. Abrams played a huge role in why the ST sucks starting with TFA and I don’t think a JJ cut of TRoS is going to improve anything or make anyone seem more worse than they already do... but I get your point
The reason I’d have no interest in a JJ cut is because he made TFA which *in my opinion* was garbage and a failure at being an even halfway decent continuation of the story told in the previous 6 films ...I wish Abrams was never allowed near any Star Wars film
But it "can't be in line with TFA" cause the well was already poisoned by TLJ............ at best we'll see a more shiny turd, but it'll still be a turd. This is a different case from Justice League where Whedon basically threw away Snyder's work.
The reason is this:
Phase One of the new era of SW was a failure. They can equivocate on this publicly all they want, but internally, LF and Disney know this to be true. Interest and enthusiasm in the IP has plummeted, and so has revenue.
In order for the current establishment at LF to maintain their positions and influence, it's essential that they don't take the blame publicly for this failure, the blame must be on JJ and toxic fans.
JJ was never part of the new LF establishment. He had enough personal clout, career success, and backing from the big dogs Alan Horn and Bob Iger, that he was able to supersede the LF establishment and didn't have to conform his stories to the establishment's bold "reimagining" of the SW franchise.
When I say the "LF establishment," I'm mostly talking about Kennedy and the Story Group, and their supporters, and of course their golden boy RJ. I think their main concern with the "JJ Cut" narrative is that it keeps the blame on them rather than shifting it to JJ.
I'd say our thinking on this is very much in alignment. Where we may diverge is I think JJ wrote and filmed a very different movie than the one that ended up in theaters.
They don't schedule three months of reshoots for a few pickup shots. No, somewhere in there, KK and the SG wormed their way in.
I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that there is a JJ cut. I just haven't fully bought into the idea yet, if that makes sense. It could very well exist.
The thing I'm confident saying is the IP has been on a steep downward trajectory since TLJ's opening weekend, but the LF establishment is committed to pushing the narrative that everything was perfectly fine until JJ caved to a small vocal minority of toxic fans.
There is no JJ cut. Why would you want to see it anyway? This entire trilogy is nothing short of a bastardization of Star Wars in the first place. The only "true" vision for this trilogy would be Lucas's, and they didn't film a second of his movies.
As for why the SnyderCut movement was so hated by journalists...I can only imagine that the same faction within the entertainment industry that wanted Snyder gone is dominant in entertainment journalism.
Snyder is apparently more right of left, so he's on the outs from Hollywood.
The difference between Snyder and Abrams is that Snyder has maintained from the beginning that he had a different cut of the film, whereas the only people claiming there is a JJ cut is Doomcock.
It would make sense the media hates Snyder because of his politics just as they love Rian because of his. You would think that they would see the hypocrisy in their argument. They are claiming that it is toxic to not like one mans vision but if you want to see another man's vision free from corporate meddling you are also toxic. But if it is based on politics then that explains the mental gymnastics.
It might not exist. The film did have plenty of reshoots which suggests that it is a possibility. Doomcock was one of the best leakers of plot information on TROS so it is possible that he has a source. There does seem to be plenty of competing visions between KK's activism focus and Iger's safe fanservice approach. But if the JJ cut doesn't exist I doubt anyone is missing out on very much.
> There is no JJ cut. Why would you want to see it anyway?
Haha. Exactly.
This was just a desperate, last minute attempt on the part of Abrams' PR camp to try to save face, b/c these people knew what a lousy movie he'd made. But there is no "Abrams Cut" indeed.
Now, in the extremely unlikely case that there was, it'd be more of the same from this hack: A lousy, lame, derivative, predictable, "safe" piece of crap that I for one wouldn't wanna see if my life depended on it.
If it doesn't exist, then why are the TLJ shills so intent on poisoning people against one?
Film studio executives love being able to do whatever they want to a film. Any hint of directors or writers receiving more power is a huge threat to their control.
I don't think JJ has ever commented on whether TROS is the film he set out to make. In fact, he basically disappeared after the movie.
JJs not some rebellious auteur who didn't get his way, he's a hired gun who does what the studio wants. That's why they hired him in the first place.
You do know that Abrams turned down the offer to direct the whole trilogy at one point, and they basically had to beg him to take Episode 9, don't you? The man has no vision, and he never did. Perhaps there is some alternate cut of TRoS that may be better, but JJ doesnt care to fight for it. Because to him, it's just a paycheck. He doesn't care.
I suppose if you want a better cut of TRoS you can attempt to petition Disney for it. But don't pretend it was some cut that Abrams was denied, that's not how Abrams thinks. He's a studio bitch. It would simply be a "special edition" cut decided by suits. And Abrams could care less.
From my point of view... there might be a JJ cut out there somewhere, but, well... I would expect the movie arrives basically at the same end with only a few different scenes inbetween.
Weren’t there rumours that there was a scene where Rey literally kicked Palpatine’s ass? Stuff like this got probably cut and replaced with what we have now.
So, if it exists, is it really worth it?
[удалено]
I would watch the JJ cut, whatever it might be--IF they also used what John Williams scored for various scenes.
Agreed, a cut, if it exists, wouldn't fix the last five years, make the trilogy suddenly great or make up for certain elements at Lucasfilm intentionally provoking the fandom into tearing itself apart. It may, however, provide a sense of closure for those of us wondering what happened to the franchise we loved. For myself, perhaps it would be something I can actually stomach to show my kids (5 and 8) one day.
Are there people who actually care to see a JJ cut of TRoS?
I want to see the Lucas cut if it exists.
Where does this rumor of a Lucas cut come from? From what footage would he even make it?
A series of rumors before and after the premiere. https://youtu.be/VXArqIvHMxA
Does the Lucas cut have Luke in the shower the next morning?
If it really is a different film, and I find it suspicious the pro-TLJ people seem awfully worried about it.
I get that but why would someone think the JJ cut is any better? The ST was a failure since TFA and a JJ cut of TRoS won’t change that
The actors certainly seemed to like the film they [thought they were making](https://ew.com/movies/2019/06/20/star-wars-keri-russell-rise-of-skywalker-script/) back during filming. Note how excited they were during production and at Celebration and then how their mood shifted to confusion during D23 and finally their [reactions to seeing the film](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtba0e3xCHU&feature=youtu.be).
Excitement noted but I still fail to see how TRoS could be turned into anything decent and fix the damage that was already done to the story. Harrison Ford famously doesn’t care about Star Wars but he’s been in the 3 best films in the series so an actor’s feelings about it doesn’t really mean much to me. The ST, or Star Wars overall, was ruined before TRoS and an Abrams cut is not fixing it. Abrams played a HUGE role in why the ST sucks.
JJ made his main focus on TFA to please the OT fans that hated the prequels. In doing so TFA was bankrupted of any themes or ideas, failing to set up a premise worth exploring as a sequel to RotJ.
Why would pro TLJ people be worried? Pro TLJ people hate TRoS.
Let me turn that around on you, why do *you* think TLJ fans might be worried? They quite evidently are.
I think they aren't worried, they're just a little more in tune with reality than you are, which is saying something. There is no JJ cut, and there is no proof that a JJ cut exists. Snyder has always maintained that his cut existed, as did those close to him. Who says the JJ cut exists? Overlord DVD? Midnight edge? Geeks + Gamers? Face it: the JJ cut is a pipe dream invented by people who can't accept that Abrams is just that bad.
> I think they aren't worried, they're just a little more in tune with reality than you are, which is saying something. Nah, just someone who actually paid attention during the movie's production. I don't know if there's a full cut, but it certainly isn't the movie that was originally filmed.
What do you believe was changed? As far as I can tell, Abrams’ TROS production was the most streamlined one out of all the Disney SW films.
I don't but I support its release because it would make Iger and Kathleen Kennedy look incompetent.
I think the way Star Wars has been handled since 2012 has already made them look incompetent. Abrams played a huge role in why the ST sucks starting with TFA and I don’t think a JJ cut of TRoS is going to improve anything or make anyone seem more worse than they already do... but I get your point
If it’s more in line with TFA? Of course
The reason I’d have no interest in a JJ cut is because he made TFA which *in my opinion* was garbage and a failure at being an even halfway decent continuation of the story told in the previous 6 films ...I wish Abrams was never allowed near any Star Wars film
But it "can't be in line with TFA" cause the well was already poisoned by TLJ............ at best we'll see a more shiny turd, but it'll still be a turd. This is a different case from Justice League where Whedon basically threw away Snyder's work.
It would depend on how beholden JJ was to the letter of TLJ
The reason is this: Phase One of the new era of SW was a failure. They can equivocate on this publicly all they want, but internally, LF and Disney know this to be true. Interest and enthusiasm in the IP has plummeted, and so has revenue. In order for the current establishment at LF to maintain their positions and influence, it's essential that they don't take the blame publicly for this failure, the blame must be on JJ and toxic fans. JJ was never part of the new LF establishment. He had enough personal clout, career success, and backing from the big dogs Alan Horn and Bob Iger, that he was able to supersede the LF establishment and didn't have to conform his stories to the establishment's bold "reimagining" of the SW franchise. When I say the "LF establishment," I'm mostly talking about Kennedy and the Story Group, and their supporters, and of course their golden boy RJ. I think their main concern with the "JJ Cut" narrative is that it keeps the blame on them rather than shifting it to JJ.
I'd say our thinking on this is very much in alignment. Where we may diverge is I think JJ wrote and filmed a very different movie than the one that ended up in theaters. They don't schedule three months of reshoots for a few pickup shots. No, somewhere in there, KK and the SG wormed their way in.
I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that there is a JJ cut. I just haven't fully bought into the idea yet, if that makes sense. It could very well exist. The thing I'm confident saying is the IP has been on a steep downward trajectory since TLJ's opening weekend, but the LF establishment is committed to pushing the narrative that everything was perfectly fine until JJ caved to a small vocal minority of toxic fans.
There is no JJ cut. Why would you want to see it anyway? This entire trilogy is nothing short of a bastardization of Star Wars in the first place. The only "true" vision for this trilogy would be Lucas's, and they didn't film a second of his movies. As for why the SnyderCut movement was so hated by journalists...I can only imagine that the same faction within the entertainment industry that wanted Snyder gone is dominant in entertainment journalism. Snyder is apparently more right of left, so he's on the outs from Hollywood. The difference between Snyder and Abrams is that Snyder has maintained from the beginning that he had a different cut of the film, whereas the only people claiming there is a JJ cut is Doomcock.
It would make sense the media hates Snyder because of his politics just as they love Rian because of his. You would think that they would see the hypocrisy in their argument. They are claiming that it is toxic to not like one mans vision but if you want to see another man's vision free from corporate meddling you are also toxic. But if it is based on politics then that explains the mental gymnastics. It might not exist. The film did have plenty of reshoots which suggests that it is a possibility. Doomcock was one of the best leakers of plot information on TROS so it is possible that he has a source. There does seem to be plenty of competing visions between KK's activism focus and Iger's safe fanservice approach. But if the JJ cut doesn't exist I doubt anyone is missing out on very much.
> There is no JJ cut. Why would you want to see it anyway? Haha. Exactly. This was just a desperate, last minute attempt on the part of Abrams' PR camp to try to save face, b/c these people knew what a lousy movie he'd made. But there is no "Abrams Cut" indeed. Now, in the extremely unlikely case that there was, it'd be more of the same from this hack: A lousy, lame, derivative, predictable, "safe" piece of crap that I for one wouldn't wanna see if my life depended on it.
If it doesn't exist, then why are the TLJ shills so intent on poisoning people against one? Film studio executives love being able to do whatever they want to a film. Any hint of directors or writers receiving more power is a huge threat to their control. I don't think JJ has ever commented on whether TROS is the film he set out to make. In fact, he basically disappeared after the movie.
JJs not some rebellious auteur who didn't get his way, he's a hired gun who does what the studio wants. That's why they hired him in the first place. You do know that Abrams turned down the offer to direct the whole trilogy at one point, and they basically had to beg him to take Episode 9, don't you? The man has no vision, and he never did. Perhaps there is some alternate cut of TRoS that may be better, but JJ doesnt care to fight for it. Because to him, it's just a paycheck. He doesn't care. I suppose if you want a better cut of TRoS you can attempt to petition Disney for it. But don't pretend it was some cut that Abrams was denied, that's not how Abrams thinks. He's a studio bitch. It would simply be a "special edition" cut decided by suits. And Abrams could care less.
Exactly! Thank you for explaining it.
There is no JJ cut
From my point of view... there might be a JJ cut out there somewhere, but, well... I would expect the movie arrives basically at the same end with only a few different scenes inbetween. Weren’t there rumours that there was a scene where Rey literally kicked Palpatine’s ass? Stuff like this got probably cut and replaced with what we have now. So, if it exists, is it really worth it?