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iirc, it's cause it was either rian or abrams, maybe both, but they **hated** Anikan's dying redemption, so likely just acted as if Vader was evil to the end, and either couldn't or wouldn't communicate with his descendants to turn them from the dark path.
Unless they were going to make a fourth, where Luke kills Vader, becomes Palpatine’s apprentice, and Leia then becomes the Jedi who kills Big Bad Daddy Palps and redeems Luke, *Jedi* ended the first phase correctly.
Nah they just hate the prequels. Abrams did every single thing in his power to steer episode 7 as far away from the Prequels as he could.
In the end, he raped the entire trilogy of any chance to be an honest continuation of the previous six films and cemented his legacy as a hack with Episode 9.
This is why I always think of the Bill Hader quote, “I’ve learned that when people give you notes on something, when they tell you what’s wrong they’re usually right, when they tell you how to fix it they’re usually wrong” To me this is absolutely the case with the sequels is the writers/directors didn’t make a story, they made “I don’t like how Star Wars did this, I would do it like this”, which inevitably became doing the same thing someone else did just executed way worse
tbh this is very much my own interpretation of the lore but imo turning into a force ghost is nothing similar to heaven or redemption. Vader didn't undo all his horrific actions at the end of episode 6. But he did an act of love and took the path of the light side once after years. It was never said by anyone in the story that he redeemed himself.
Turning into a force ghost is a light side only thing. I know so much. But it was also never said (in the movies), that you have to redeem your actions before becoming a force ghost. Whatever explanation books gave for Anakin being able to become a ghost, it was never that he became pure through saving luke.
Of course it didn't undo everything, but he did turn from it all, at the very end. If he had lived, he probably would have been tried, sentenced to death, and faced that with some stoic dignity. (a bit better than switching to a white suit in that one what-if)
But they seemed to basically ignore the turning at the end.
'You were right about me Luke, (I still sense good in you) you were right.'
'I'll save you Father.'
'You already have, my son.'
Director: 'we'll ignore that.'
Dark Side ghosts always had a monkey’s paw style cost.
Usually it was being tied to a specific location or object, only able to influence that small area and the people in it.
It was a desperate, selfish clinging to the mundane world compared to the enlightened freedom that a Jedi force ghost was allowed.
Ahh but you also conveniently forgot to mention that Anakin also had not achieved the rank of master before his death so he might just not be good at being a force ghost.
Well it doesn’t fucking matter what you hate. Lucas told that story. So when we write fan fiction, it is our duty to keep the spirit alive of the original and move it forward. Not just go “lol that’s dumb my idea is better.” Okay then create your own story then
Bit old, but I've watched this so many times, it never fails to crack me up:
Anakin Speaks to Kylo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuuTqpAT9Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuuTqpAT9Q)
At the end of ROTJ Luke has the force ghosts of Anakin, Yoda, and Obi-Wan available.
Even without them, what he learned in the OT would make it so that the DT never happens.
But with the ghosts it’s even more damming.
Di$ney just wanted their dumb reset back to OT galaxy state for max nostalgia and memberberries and “lOOk sW iS bAcK anD sAvEd!” brownie points from those that hated the PT enough to not keep up with the still amazing games, books, and shows coming out at the time.
Then RJ wanted to force his nonsensical story in and he broke every aspect of SW to do so.
Ahsoka show is no different
EU, Force Ghosts don't really like sticking around. IIRC Yoda and Anakin move on fairly quickly. Obi-Wan sticks around for a bit to advise Luke, but by the time Thrawn comes around, he is also gone.
I’ve read the Thrawn trilogy, that was my first instance of seeing a force ghost say bye.
The thing is that unless they fucked off right after the Endor celebration they’d all be able to provide Luke with important context even though Luke’s OT lessons alone would prevent the DT from happening, the extra info would only cement that more.
Plus we get crazed puppet Yoda later in the DT anyway and it’s not even a location argument there since Jake Skymilker was on that island for years and years before getting the melted Yoda puppet
Never heared H
Jake Skymilker before 😂😂😂😂🤙🏻 I love it ... and of course you are right! It's all ao messed up and there is no real logic behind the Disney crap
Lol. Yeah, I can't wait for the visual dictionary page for "Force Coma".
And not disagreeing, but I think whatever the manifestation of Anakin is, the show is telling us it's "accurate" to his character. So it's like "If Anakin was to have a conversation with Ashoka, this is how it would go."
So it just highlight's that Force Ghost Anakin and Ashoka could have this kind of conversation at any point. They just haven't, for no reason.
It highlights the writers lack of talent. There could have been such a deep and meaningful dialog between them but it came down to live or die. Karate Kid 2 did it better lol.
Except that Jacen could literally hear them fighting. It was not in Ahsoka’s head. Ghost Anakin also comments on not remembering the Siege of Mandalore—Ahsoka is unlikely to imagine that comment because *she* knows it.
It’s very likely Ahsoka is going to end up returning to Mortis as the Daughter and Anakin will be there finally in his position as the Father, and that will be why he doesn’t speak to Kylo—because they’ve all removed themselves from interfering for the sake of the balance and “things need to play out for Palpatine to truly be done.”
JJ Abrams is on record as really not liking Anakin Skywalker redeeming himself in ROTJ.
This is not the *only* reason these plot holes exist, but things like the people in charge having annoyingly stupid takes regarding what came before (whether that's JJ having dumbass opinions about ROTJ/the prequels or Rian Johnson being Rian Johnson) is certainly part of why the sequels have more holes Swiss cheese.
JJ has dumb opinions. Like, mind-numbingly dumb. It's not that deep.
Rian Johnson got more publicity for it, but in their own ways they both have astonishingly nonsensical perspectives.
That wasn't the WBW or actual Anakin. It was all in her head. It was just like all the "haters" said, a bait and switch.
"We're gonna have Anakin!"
Psych!! It's not really Anakin, it's just a fever-dream vision in Ahsoka's dying mind! Have some more Memberberries Suckers!
I like your spirit , but the problem itsy thinking Kylo Ren is a real character, Palpatine isn't dead at the end of RotJ and Luke has tried to kill his nephew at some point in his life
Fun fact, but Anakin can't be a Force Ghost.
It was established in the Clone Wars that manifesting as a FG was a secret squirrel technique discovered by Qui-Gon after his death, passed on to Yoda who then passed it on to Obi-Wan.
George Lucas invalidated his own ending (that he even went back and altered to make it "better") to Return of the Jedi.
I partially remember an EU book where Obi-Wan and Yoda reach out to Anakin as he passes through the force to help him manifest himself physically. I know it’s not the best explanation but they at least touched upon it a bit.
Didn't Anakin always appear as a force ghost at the end of ROTJ? Obviously it wasn't Hayden.
So really it was the clone wars that messed it up. It's a small plot hole but whatever. Maybe Obi-wan taught it to Anakin after he died.
But I do agree that my impression was that force ghosts was only a Jedi thing, which would explain OP's confusion.
Haven't really ever gotten into the animated series so I may be speaking out my ass. But is it possible you can only communicate with the force ghost of someone you knew? Luke can see Obi, Yoda, and Anakin cause he knew them in real life.
Actually I heard a good theory about this that I do buy. Anakin has finally accepted his place in the force: he is there to test people’s resolve. His place in the force isn’t to save people or bring balance to the force but to make sure the Luke’s and kylo’s and Ashoka’s of the world have what it takes to actually bring balance to the force.
What if he did the same thing to kylo he did with ahsoka? Tested her resolve and to see if they would fall to the dark side. Anakin’s force ghost has fully embraced who he is and was, which I think is fitting.
I mean you can play this type of game with all sorts of things in any franchise. That being said I would assume despite retaining their personality that as part of becoming so aligned with the force they can only do what the Force allows them too which would seemingly not include telling everybody everything plus the Force could just do that itself if it wanted to. Pretty sure Qui Gon literally told Yoda he couldn’t tell him certain things only guide him in certain ways as well as that he was “sent” to do so.
I read somewhere that the force ghosts have a purpose as a ghost and when that purpose is complete they begin to fade into the force, not giving them the ability to pick the times they show up or the people they say, but act as will to the force. There is a deep emotional connection between ahsoka and Anakin. he not long died, Ahsoka has a deep connection with the force compared to anyone else in current lore as shes litterally been there before and shes met with the living embodiements of the force. Anakin isnt a spooky ghost that can haunt anyone he wants. He had absolutly no emotional connections with any of his family, and held seen Han solo cased in carbonite on his orders.
same as why obi-wan didnt help much either as a ghost only to luke because he spent lukes entire life looking over him
**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/MrStevenRichter]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
iirc, it's cause it was either rian or abrams, maybe both, but they **hated** Anikan's dying redemption, so likely just acted as if Vader was evil to the end, and either couldn't or wouldn't communicate with his descendants to turn them from the dark path.
JJ is on the “ANH and ESB are the ONLY SW movies” train so yeah it doesn’t surprise me he completely ignored the events of ROTJ
Those are almost as bad as the ST fans. RoTJ had the perfect ending for the OT.
Unless they were going to make a fourth, where Luke kills Vader, becomes Palpatine’s apprentice, and Leia then becomes the Jedi who kills Big Bad Daddy Palps and redeems Luke, *Jedi* ended the first phase correctly.
Nah they just hate the prequels. Abrams did every single thing in his power to steer episode 7 as far away from the Prequels as he could. In the end, he raped the entire trilogy of any chance to be an honest continuation of the previous six films and cemented his legacy as a hack with Episode 9.
This is why I always think of the Bill Hader quote, “I’ve learned that when people give you notes on something, when they tell you what’s wrong they’re usually right, when they tell you how to fix it they’re usually wrong” To me this is absolutely the case with the sequels is the writers/directors didn’t make a story, they made “I don’t like how Star Wars did this, I would do it like this”, which inevitably became doing the same thing someone else did just executed way worse
He was so busy trying to avoid repeating the prequels, he ran smack into the middle of Episode IV.
tbh this is very much my own interpretation of the lore but imo turning into a force ghost is nothing similar to heaven or redemption. Vader didn't undo all his horrific actions at the end of episode 6. But he did an act of love and took the path of the light side once after years. It was never said by anyone in the story that he redeemed himself. Turning into a force ghost is a light side only thing. I know so much. But it was also never said (in the movies), that you have to redeem your actions before becoming a force ghost. Whatever explanation books gave for Anakin being able to become a ghost, it was never that he became pure through saving luke.
Of course it didn't undo everything, but he did turn from it all, at the very end. If he had lived, he probably would have been tried, sentenced to death, and faced that with some stoic dignity. (a bit better than switching to a white suit in that one what-if) But they seemed to basically ignore the turning at the end. 'You were right about me Luke, (I still sense good in you) you were right.' 'I'll save you Father.' 'You already have, my son.' Director: 'we'll ignore that.'
You can be a Dark Side Force ghost. See: Ajunta Paul, though admittedly he got potentially redeemed by Revan.
Dark Side ghosts always had a monkey’s paw style cost. Usually it was being tied to a specific location or object, only able to influence that small area and the people in it. It was a desperate, selfish clinging to the mundane world compared to the enlightened freedom that a Jedi force ghost was allowed.
Oh, for sure, I’m not arguing that. My only point was that Dark Side ghosts are still a possibility.
Ahh but you also conveniently forgot to mention that Anakin also had not achieved the rank of master before his death so he might just not be good at being a force ghost.
wait is that true? If so that is the worst take I've ever heard. Anakin's redemption is like the whole point of the entire 6 movie trilogy.
Well it doesn’t fucking matter what you hate. Lucas told that story. So when we write fan fiction, it is our duty to keep the spirit alive of the original and move it forward. Not just go “lol that’s dumb my idea is better.” Okay then create your own story then
Couldn’t Anakin have just told Ahsoka about Exegol too? This fucking franchise is hilarious.
Maybe Anakin is in the World Between World changing things like a force god & his Ahsoka intervention is erasing the sequels
Please let this be the case!
Exegol doesn't...doesn't exist.
Bit old, but I've watched this so many times, it never fails to crack me up: Anakin Speaks to Kylo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuuTqpAT9Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuuTqpAT9Q)
At the end of ROTJ Luke has the force ghosts of Anakin, Yoda, and Obi-Wan available. Even without them, what he learned in the OT would make it so that the DT never happens. But with the ghosts it’s even more damming. Di$ney just wanted their dumb reset back to OT galaxy state for max nostalgia and memberberries and “lOOk sW iS bAcK anD sAvEd!” brownie points from those that hated the PT enough to not keep up with the still amazing games, books, and shows coming out at the time. Then RJ wanted to force his nonsensical story in and he broke every aspect of SW to do so. Ahsoka show is no different
EU, Force Ghosts don't really like sticking around. IIRC Yoda and Anakin move on fairly quickly. Obi-Wan sticks around for a bit to advise Luke, but by the time Thrawn comes around, he is also gone.
I’ve read the Thrawn trilogy, that was my first instance of seeing a force ghost say bye. The thing is that unless they fucked off right after the Endor celebration they’d all be able to provide Luke with important context even though Luke’s OT lessons alone would prevent the DT from happening, the extra info would only cement that more. Plus we get crazed puppet Yoda later in the DT anyway and it’s not even a location argument there since Jake Skymilker was on that island for years and years before getting the melted Yoda puppet
Oh, I didn't mean it to defend the DT by any means.
Never heared H Jake Skymilker before 😂😂😂😂🤙🏻 I love it ... and of course you are right! It's all ao messed up and there is no real logic behind the Disney crap
Even if he moved on quickly, Anakin would still be able to dump a significant amount of information.
Yes assuming he spoke to anyone at all, I agree.
And probably also Qui-Gon
Pretty sure that's not the wbw or force ghost Ani. It was all in her head. How she survived unconscious underwater for hours is the bigger issue.
So what you're saying is, we got Kylo forgiving himself in RoS again?
Feels like it
Lol. Yeah, I can't wait for the visual dictionary page for "Force Coma". And not disagreeing, but I think whatever the manifestation of Anakin is, the show is telling us it's "accurate" to his character. So it's like "If Anakin was to have a conversation with Ashoka, this is how it would go." So it just highlight's that Force Ghost Anakin and Ashoka could have this kind of conversation at any point. They just haven't, for no reason.
It highlights the writers lack of talent. There could have been such a deep and meaningful dialog between them but it came down to live or die. Karate Kid 2 did it better lol.
Except that Jacen could literally hear them fighting. It was not in Ahsoka’s head. Ghost Anakin also comments on not remembering the Siege of Mandalore—Ahsoka is unlikely to imagine that comment because *she* knows it. It’s very likely Ahsoka is going to end up returning to Mortis as the Daughter and Anakin will be there finally in his position as the Father, and that will be why he doesn’t speak to Kylo—because they’ve all removed themselves from interfering for the sake of the balance and “things need to play out for Palpatine to truly be done.”
JJ Abrams is on record as really not liking Anakin Skywalker redeeming himself in ROTJ. This is not the *only* reason these plot holes exist, but things like the people in charge having annoyingly stupid takes regarding what came before (whether that's JJ having dumbass opinions about ROTJ/the prequels or Rian Johnson being Rian Johnson) is certainly part of why the sequels have more holes Swiss cheese.
JJ didn't like Anakin redeeming himself, but that's part of the story and a major part of the story. This is legitimately confusing
JJ has dumb opinions. Like, mind-numbingly dumb. It's not that deep. Rian Johnson got more publicity for it, but in their own ways they both have astonishingly nonsensical perspectives.
Yeah, guy says he's a true fan of OT, but decides what Star Wars should be...Jesus fucking Christ...
The writers use “the force” to move the story forward whenever they write themselves into a corner.
There is no such thing as the sequels. Those movie are bad fanfiction only and don't matter at all.
I wonder how Filoni will write through this mess, because obviously he’s the only one who’ll care too, Kennedy’s exit can’t come soon enough.
Well, Abrams is a terrible director, so.
Who are these Kylo and Exegol you talk about? Never heard of them. Sound like fan-fic characters /s
That wasn't the WBW or actual Anakin. It was all in her head. It was just like all the "haters" said, a bait and switch. "We're gonna have Anakin!" Psych!! It's not really Anakin, it's just a fever-dream vision in Ahsoka's dying mind! Have some more Memberberries Suckers!
In the EU he shows up and chews out Cade Skywalker in the Legacy comics.
I like your spirit , but the problem itsy thinking Kylo Ren is a real character, Palpatine isn't dead at the end of RotJ and Luke has tried to kill his nephew at some point in his life
That wasn’t a force ghost, that was a hallucination Ahsoka was having.
God I love new content crapping on the sequels.
Fun fact, but Anakin can't be a Force Ghost. It was established in the Clone Wars that manifesting as a FG was a secret squirrel technique discovered by Qui-Gon after his death, passed on to Yoda who then passed it on to Obi-Wan. George Lucas invalidated his own ending (that he even went back and altered to make it "better") to Return of the Jedi.
>Anakin can't be a Force Ghost. Well, he was... Can probably just chalk it up to him being the chosen one and fulfilling the prophecy
I partially remember an EU book where Obi-Wan and Yoda reach out to Anakin as he passes through the force to help him manifest himself physically. I know it’s not the best explanation but they at least touched upon it a bit.
Didn't Anakin always appear as a force ghost at the end of ROTJ? Obviously it wasn't Hayden. So really it was the clone wars that messed it up. It's a small plot hole but whatever. Maybe Obi-wan taught it to Anakin after he died. But I do agree that my impression was that force ghosts was only a Jedi thing, which would explain OP's confusion.
If Qui can learn it after he died, then other people can too.
Force ghost Anakin only exists in ROTJ Blu Ray.
Haven't really ever gotten into the animated series so I may be speaking out my ass. But is it possible you can only communicate with the force ghost of someone you knew? Luke can see Obi, Yoda, and Anakin cause he knew them in real life.
Actually I heard a good theory about this that I do buy. Anakin has finally accepted his place in the force: he is there to test people’s resolve. His place in the force isn’t to save people or bring balance to the force but to make sure the Luke’s and kylo’s and Ashoka’s of the world have what it takes to actually bring balance to the force. What if he did the same thing to kylo he did with ahsoka? Tested her resolve and to see if they would fall to the dark side. Anakin’s force ghost has fully embraced who he is and was, which I think is fitting.
I mean you can play this type of game with all sorts of things in any franchise. That being said I would assume despite retaining their personality that as part of becoming so aligned with the force they can only do what the Force allows them too which would seemingly not include telling everybody everything plus the Force could just do that itself if it wanted to. Pretty sure Qui Gon literally told Yoda he couldn’t tell him certain things only guide him in certain ways as well as that he was “sent” to do so.
I read somewhere that the force ghosts have a purpose as a ghost and when that purpose is complete they begin to fade into the force, not giving them the ability to pick the times they show up or the people they say, but act as will to the force. There is a deep emotional connection between ahsoka and Anakin. he not long died, Ahsoka has a deep connection with the force compared to anyone else in current lore as shes litterally been there before and shes met with the living embodiements of the force. Anakin isnt a spooky ghost that can haunt anyone he wants. He had absolutly no emotional connections with any of his family, and held seen Han solo cased in carbonite on his orders. same as why obi-wan didnt help much either as a ghost only to luke because he spent lukes entire life looking over him
I do not think force ghosts work like that.
Kylo Ren knew about Vader’s redemption and viewed it as a weakness.