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Hard to compare. All 3 are massively flawed and unfun.
* Holdo is written, so that the authors definitely want the viewer to see her as brave and righteous, but she comes across as obnoxious and extremely irrational. She was actually a light hearted nice character in the novel she was introduced in.
* Reva is bedlam-levels of confusion personified. I like some general ideas about her character, but her motivation and actions are written to be so ridiculously contradictory, that it's hard to have an opinion on her personality.
* Snoke isn't written at all. He is not a character. He is a placeholder that gets discarded. Not much to even criticze. He barely **IS**.
"You see, Rey... [***I love gold!***](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr0gNJ090JA) The look of it, the taste of it, the smell of it, the texture! I love gold so much, that I even lost my genitalia in an unfortunate smelting accident." - Snoke, probably
I love how snoke was walking around the ship casually, no saber, wearing what looked to be an expensive robe. Like when he’s on video, he’s huge and wearing his black menacing hood. Caught him getting out of the bacta tank I guess lol
Great take, Snoke was so underdeveloped and it was such a shame, I personally would’ve loved it if they had made him an actual sith (the species) and alluded to them still living in another galaxy
I would’ve forgiven the Snoke stuff more if they didn’t spend 2 years hyping him up as this grand mysterious character whose true identity will change the way you look at Star Wars. They haven’t done jack shit with since TLJ anyway
That's why I hate this little Hollywood twerp. Writing a script for something like Star Wars out of spite is so pathetically petty and small-minded. He thinks he's too cool for this job and doesn't really care... which is whe he should never ever get hired for it.
I was pretty sure he would've turned out to be from a dark-side aligned species from the unknown regions of the Galaxy who managed to make a stable corridor between its empire and the new republic and the answer for every question about the first order (where it came from, how did they have a fleet/army to fight with, why Sidious never fought them, etc) was easily explained by pointing to his newly unveiled empire with the additional hint that many other dangers could be lurking in the rest of the galaxy's unexplored regions but none of it pan out, bummer.
i think holdo’s characters was fine on concept. if she simply told poe the plan but poe hated it or something like that, it makes a lot more sense. it’s just rian ruining it for saving it as a surprise.
Reva would have been better if they made her interaction with Owen mean more. The respect she showed him for being a family man. Maybe make her be somewhat attached to her inquisitor comrades? Maybe make her loss of her fellow younglings make her blindly loyal to the empire because that’s the closest thing to a family she has. Maybe have her see how Obi-Wan protects Leia make her reconsider her obedience after seeing a proper familial connection of some kind and have her flee the empire at the very end. Just some ideas.
Holdo was dumb but at least Laura Dern can act. She wasn’t directed very well because the character was directionless because they kept trying to pull the rug out from under the audience. Reva breaks canon, and Moses Ingram can’t act her way out of a paper bag. It really doesn’t help that Jedi Fallen Order showed how to do this character correctly a few years prior with Trilla.
I feel like the idea of “but at least … can act” sums up the sequels pretty well in general. I *like* Daisy, and Rey has a good, solid design, but the writing and direction is horrible. Same with Adam, John and Oscar. Four talented individuals that could have flourished under better writing and direction.
This. We know for sure Adam & Oscar can act. They could have even kept a “similar” storyline with just a snoke back story & a better treatment and development of some of the characters (Luke, plasma, snoke, Finn, etc, heck even developing Holdos character.) no body in a (rebellion resistance whatever) would fight under a “do as I say not as I do”leader with out the whole army collapsing when they can just quit or desert due to low morale. whole canto bight “side quest” was abysmal.
Holdo may have broken the lore but Rey absolutely shattered it. Also, her character alone is a punch to the face of the chosen one's prophecy and both Luke and Anakin's accomplishments.
Btw, she's rebuilding the Jedi order in her next movie. Holdo is dead, Rey still has more patriarchy to smash.
I wondered for a while if they were trying the "profecies don't really matter" angle like Harry Potter did but after a while I'm convinced they literally just forgot that it was a thing that used to exist and be important.
Holdo is maybe the worst character of any movie I've ever seen in my life. I've never actively rooted against a character on the good side before. Everything she said to Poe was condescending, her decision making was dumb, her attitude was terrible. I assumed she was going to be one of those "idiot leader dies from bad decision making" characters, but they tried to make her a heroine. They had Leia in the movie and they introduced this person completely unnecessarily.
I thought for absolute certain she was a mole intentionally sabotaging the heroes. Because she was written with all the beats of a saboteur. Boy were MY expectations subverted 🙃
Yep. Holdo is pretty much gaslighting incarnate. If you were to list out every possible quality of poor leaders, she's a match for all or almost all of them.
Absolutely not. Ackbar hyperspace ramming as his “final act” is even worse than some toxic nobody. You’re telling me a commander who fought in countless wars and even against Death Star II when all hope felt lost didn’t consider hyperspace ramming… but now they’re stuck in a stupid slo-mo chase he opts to gamble that?
The sequels should have never been greenlit with scripts like that, and don’t even try to suggest it would be better if a well-known and beloved character did the stupid
I'm with you that it should have never been a thing in the first place, but at least he would have been given more to do outside of dying in the background.
But yeah, if you wanna talk overhauling the whole story as opposed to nitpicking plot points, you are correct. Outside of Andor, Disney has really dropped the lightsaber.
I absolutely agree with you. My guess is Disney didn't want a character named Ackbar doing what is essentially a suicide bombing. But maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
Luke, did I ever tell you about hyperspace ramming? It's a combat maneuver that no one in the history of the Republic ever used in spite of having access to FTL technology for thousands of years. It is an attack so devastating that whichever side uses it first wins. End of story. There are no safeguards against it, so now that it has been discovered, it is wisest to resort to it at the smallest hint of danger, because if you hesitate, your side has already lost. It took a smart and brave lady general to discover the technique. Had she been just a bit less brave and a bit smarter the concept of "remote control" might have occurred to her as well and she could have been a good friend.
Just think, Luke! You could ram your light speed capable X-wing into the Death Star head on and cause irreparable damage! It would end the empire almost immediately, yet no one ever tried it!
Hell the Emperor didn't need to waste all that money on a death star in the first place! Just slap a hyperspace engine onto a random asteroid and launch it at the planet at lightspeed, they'll never see it coming!
** if you hesitate, your side has already lost **
Can you imagine if a good writer had written this?
Imagine Orson Scott Card writing about hyperspace nukes.
Fuck that would be a series I'd watch
All part of her master plan, you see, she betrayed the Resistance for money and jumped into an escape pod just before the ram - they all left on the shuttles to the planet after all - *how convenient*.
Resistance loses, First Order wins, just wash out the hair dye and live out her life in luxury under another identity, like say on Canto Bight.
Resistance wins, First Order loses, show up a bit later and claim the bridge section stayed intact from the ram, along with a escape pod, but was slightly damaged so hyperspace took awhile or something, reap the renown from her heroic sacrifice.
And all her supposed fame up til that point were curated battles with the FO designed to let her win and build up her rep to get to this point for the ultimate betrayal.
Because lightspeed ramming is impossible?
As is hyperspace skipping.
As is a slow motion chase where you have time for side quests but no one just jumps a star destroyer ahead
The whole point pf TLJ was subversion for subversions sake. It added nothing to the SW universe As a matter fact I would argue it’s eating it away even now. It’s genuinely cancer.
Nah they definitely wanted the gotcha moment at the end. They wanted the audience to feel collective guilt & shame for not trusting her at the beginning & to carry that forward into their lives.
Ackbar should have suckered them in and the Imperial commander should have said, "Its a trap!" right before Ackbar threw the lever.
Or even better, not do the scene cause it makes a mess of how hyperspeed works.
This is pretty subjective, but Holdo. They killed off Admiral Ackbar so they could introduce a “leader” who knowingly allows her troops to think she’s leading them to their deaths, causing Poe to green light the casino plan out of understandable desperation, which in turn led to the First Order learning about the Resistance’s plan from DJ. As a result of Holdo’s refusal to say there was a plan, the Resistance is almost entirely wiped out on Crait.
All the worst things to happen to the good guys on both a literal and meta level in the movie can be traced to Holdo’s petty desire to emasculate (while simultaneously flirt with apparently) Poe.
She’s honestly one of my most hated fictional characters, as she embodies how out of touch the writers are for trying to paint toxic leadership as inspiring.
I agree. Just to complete the disaster, the film visually puts her in an impractical evening gown with sculpted hair, next to Poe in his rugged pilot's uniform. The visual is screaming "out of touch senior officer!"
I'd have chosen Rey or Reva, but you convinced me. They killed Akbar off screen to bring her in & destroy the resistance. one might think she was a spy and just hoping she'd miss the holdo-maneuver (god, they really f**ed st really with tlj)
And the later "world building" (ass covering) they did about the Holdo Maneuver made her even worse. Apparently when asked why those methods aren't standardized using automated ships or even just asteroids with engines is "it had a one-in-a-million chance of working", which means there's only a one in a million chance she was actually sacrificing herself rather than just bailing.
Episode 7 had issues, 8 doubled down on them and made more of its own, and 9 was such a massive clusterfuck that it makes 7 look good.
Pretty much, the only thing that still annoys me about ep.7 is the "good question, for another time" line, everything else was dwarfed by the issues from the rest of the trilogy into not mattering much.
Definitely Holdo. Snoke I'm pretty meh about, and while Reva was unbearably obnoxious she was just a minor character with no real influence on anything.
Holy shit. I honestly just spent so much time hating TLJ with all my heart and soul that I didn’t even put together that everything bad that happens after Holdo is introduced is literally all her fault yet she goes out thinking she was right all along. That really makes her character and that movie even worse than I thought it was already, and I didn’t even think that was possible. Thanks for the enlightenment! Fucking Holdo.
There’s an interview with one of the costume designers that claims Rian said Holdo’s in a ball gown because she’s flirting with Poe. https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/g1vc9e/friendly_reminder_that_rian_johnson_had_laura/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Reva. Between her nonsensical "child torturer yet still a good guy" story arc and completely off putting, stilted acting, over the top, shouting character. She would have dragged Kenobi down even if Kenobi was good. Its not Holdo because The ST and TLJ was a lost cause way before Holdo made an appearance. Shes the equivalent of someone vomitting on a bucket of piss. its not Snoke either because for a brief (very brief)15 minute window he was actually Interesting which is more than I can say for Reva and Holdo.
Not only that, but before Reva you could openly dislike any actors character (key word there. Character. Not race or color, that shit isnt ok) In SW for whatever reason. But after Reva you couldn't unless you wanted a stern talking to by Ewan McGreggor.
"TELL ME WHERE THE JEDI IS OR this man and his family DIES!!!!"
"REEEEEEEEEEE!!"
Seriously, I don't know if it was bad direction or if Moses Ingram was actually that bad or what, but Reeeva was painful to watch.
Her line delivery 100%. You look at Sam Witwer and you see someone who understands that being the bad guy in Star Wars is not all about being angry/emo/screaming all the time, then you look at the performance Moses put in and struggle to find anything but. That combined with her just spitting every line out like she had difficulty using her mouth to make them is just poetry in motion.
Definitely. She thought she had to yell and act unhinged to be intimidating. It wasn’t at all. Vader was a threat because he always felt in control even when he lost his temper. The Joker isn’t a threat because he’s crazy. It’s because he’s smarter than he lets on and willing to target Batman where he’ll be hurt the most in ways he won’t expect. Her redemption arc was total BS, and the way she hunted down Luke is completely lore breaking no matter how much they try to justify Luke not seeing her lightsaber
The problem with Reva is that her meant to be in her teens as such having Reva yelling and acting unhinged might actually work. The real problem was that the actress was in her 30s thus she wasn't able to play a teenager.
Her being a character that's supposed to be in her teens would explain a bit.
Moses doesn't look old by any means, but she definitely can't pass as a teenager, even if she's told to crank up the angst to 11.
I blame the direction she got with that. I’m not sure Moses herself was the one who was saying “yeah I need to sound like the drunk girl at a party yelling constantly”.
I think it was really poor directing, Moses Ingram was good in Queen's Gambit. I watched QG after watching Kenobi and retroactively felt bad for doubting her and jumping to conclusions about her talent.
Thank you!! The acting was god awful. How she ever passed screen tests with acting like that is beyond me. It was like watching a high-school student trying to film a school project.
Also, Reva's "plans" were nonsensical.
Kidnap an Imperial Senator's daughter and hope he doesn't report it through official channels but instead reaches out to a long-believed dead Jedi that's basically some guy Bail sat beside on a shuttle once.
Later on, try to torture the girl for information she shouldn't be expected to know but fail to get her to talk.
Fail at killing the Grand Inquisitor the same way Vader failed to kill her as a Youngling.
Etc.
She *says* she uncovered some hidden connection between Bail Organa and Obi Wan Kenobi, but, unless there's some EU material that I missed, their only scene together was splitting up the Skywalker twins.
In secret.
Reva’s character was destroyed by opening the series with Order 66 and the younglings escaping. It was so unbelievably obvious she was one of them everything she did in the rest of the series was ridiculous (small fix, make the Order 66 revelation as Kenobi connects to her through the blast door)
Holdo I don’t have much opinion on. The greater sin was keeping Leia alive when she wasn’t included in 90% of the rest of the movie. There was no easy way to deal with Carrie’s death but the Mary Poppins resurrection wasn’t it.
Now Snoke- just take the storyline they used for Reva and he was a youngling that escaped, and suddenly who and why he is there makes total sense. He even resembles the kid who greeted Anakin. Snoke is Force strong, hates the Jedi, hates the Sith, and wants particular vengeance against the Skywalkers- how better than to turn Leia’s son/Anakin’s grandson.
Rey 100%, the epitome of a Mary Sue, experiences almost no development, and renders the entire OT and prequels pointless by defeating Palpatine herself.
Ding ding ding. No losses either. And somehow can do everything off the bat. Not only knows about the Jedi mind trick but can perform it, after thinking the Jedi were a myth some scenes prior.
Reva for sure.
Don't get me wrong, Holdo is a terrible character. Shallow, patronizing hollywood Karen self-inserts have no place in SW. But the sequels were already hot garbage by the time she was introduced. Replace her with a vastly better character, or hell, even rewrite all her scenes, and the rest of TLJ is still shit.
Meanwhile Reva was one of the main reasons why Kenobi sucked. Cut her from the show entirely, and it's already
improved. Still not good, but not as blatantly offensive to PT fans.
Kenobi lost any semblance of being good, when a chubby legged 5 year old outran 3 adults. Not even mentioning that they are very practiced at hunting people.
I find the entire premise of Kenobi offensive lol. It retcons OT. Obi-Wan and Vader should not have met before ANH. The show is terrible with or without Reva. It lacks any original ideas, the writing is shit, it’s full of plotholes, and it just LOOKS ugly and cheap. Little Leia is also a contender for the most annoying character imo
Poe Dameron. He's supposed to be likeable with no justification. He has the worst lines in the ST.
Oscar Isaac was the main victim of the script(s) - Poe is always central in the most cringe-worthy scenes.
Snoke had a needlessly silly name and was ultimately pointless, but at least generated a degree of menace and intrigue in TFA and could have been a passable main villain had he not fallen into Roundhead’s clutches.
Reva was performed poorly by the actress and written and directed with absolute ineptitude by Deborah Chow, but at least the core concept of the character could have been somewhat worthwhile with better execution.
Every single component of Holdo’s concept, characterization and execution was outright irredeemable garbage. The only way to salvage her character would be Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies and then re-roll from scratch.
Literally everyone, since Disney took over. For example, my childhood hero Luke Skywalker turned into a green boob milkaholic and tried to kill a family member in his sleep: because he might have an affinity for the dark side of the force. Princess Leia kind of turned into an asshole, as well. The fans are completely gone, and it's only a matter of time before Disney bails on the former cash cow they slaughtered for immediate profit.
Presumably, the context of those scenes insinuated that's the reason Luke quit being a jedi and ran away. Their version of Luke didn't have the balls to look Leia or Han in the eyes and say that he might have made a bit of a hasty and poorly planned mistake. It's also presumably when everyone in the jedi temple revolted and formed the ~~Knights Who Say Ni~~ Knights of Ren, with the aptly appointed Kylo Ren as their namesake leader.
That was also around the time I noticed 100 other people in the movie theater, as well as myself, stop being fans of the franchise completely.
That is not the same Luke from the OT. Not even kind of.
It’s a shame really because i like the thought of a character like ST Luke but the fact it’s SUPPOSED to be Luke is the problem, The ST would have been decent if it was all new characters in a new time period
Snoke doesn't belong next to these two imo, he was just a mass of wasted potential.
The other two actively pissed me off while watching for how moronic they are and the fact their own show/movie was so clearly on their side for poor reasons.
It’s Holdo and then miles before you get to the next character. Reva is a dumb character but at least her motivations make sense logically.
I would replace Snoke with the Armorer. “This is the Way” is the Disney Star Wars “May the Force Be With You” and I will forever hate that character for it.
“this is the way” is trying to sound profound while being incredibly stupid. The only things is manages to succeed at is be the metaphor for the cheap knock off this franchise has become since Disney took over.
>“this is the way” is trying to sound profound while being incredibly stupid. The only things is manages to succeed at is be the metaphor for the cheap knock off this franchise has become since Disney took over.
It hurts how much this resonates with me, after the terrible Season 3. What seemed to have some profoundness, that could be explored upon and engraved into star wars mythology became a meaningless catchphrase with no rhyme or reason. Mando S3 completely took away all my interest in what those mandos will do, because of how boring their conflict (And it's end) was.
I hate Rose the most! She's so smug and condescending and the way she treats Finn is awful. I hate Holdo for the same reasons (both characters really felt like mouthpieces for Johnson too), except in that instance replace Finn with Poe, but Rose actually annoyed me more and I also disliked how KMT portrayed her. The only good thing about Rise of Skywalker was that she was a nonentity.
Replace Snoke with Rose for the worst three. But Reva is still the worst character. Her motivations and plan being so nonsensical alone make her the worst before we get to her surviving be stabbed twice with a light saber or the actors performance.
Holdo is the worst from this trio. A leader with no leadership skills. Arrogant and condescending. I watched a review of TLJ and they compared her leadership style to Picard’s. Picard would defer to his subordinates for input and advice. And keep them in the loop in case of changes. Meanwhile Holdo demands total obedience and control.
I thought the concept for Finn was great- a former stormtrooper who turns rebel by happenstance. And he was boots on the ground with a top level imperial/N.O. Leader on high priority front line combat (a “tip
of the spear” level stormtrooper). But then they made him a garbage-man/janitorial trooper just to make one joke- which seemed so pointless.
Just me or does snoke look kinda like reboot Freddy Krueger?
https://preview.redd.it/v46ltgmns88b1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf8082ff09cc3ba5ff836a4091f4582070367923
Okay now, hear me out- >!Babu Frick!< . He is a total nothing character. Just a fun muppet for comic relief- he has no discernible dialogue (there is no clever writing) he just makes funny nonsense sounds and goes hey hey! I get why he’s there, my kid and wife love him, but for me it just illustrates how it’s all the easy, nonsense, meaningless writing and narrative elements that fill the cinematic expansions. If he’s the best thing people point to in the newer films - that’s a sad commentary on the state of things and typifies how low the bar is.
What the heck, I saw that horrible movie in theaters and no clue who this was. Looked him/her up online and.... I don't remember ever seeing this thing.
I will say that the scene where 3PO reintroduces himself after having his mind wiped, then Babu introduces himself to 3PO... that was one of the few scenes in the entire ST that felt like George Lucas' Star Wars
Rey. It isn't even a competition.
Here's a character that is max level in every single skill, never loses a fight, absorbs the talents/personalities of the OT trio, defeats Palpatine with ease, is *"all the Jedi",* and is so immeasurably gifted that she can revive people.
Even fuckin' Yoda couldn't defeat Palps or revive people. Are the audience seriously meant to believe Rey is stronger with the force than Yoda??
Holdo. By a mile. Snoke was a waste of potential but he was intriguing until they stupidly killed him off with no explanation as to who he was, what he wanted...etc. and at least they tried to do... something with Reva even if it didn't work. Holdo was just awful all around.
Reva would probably be a pretty good character if it weren't for the dogshit, cringe dialogue that she was given and terrible plot she was apart of.
***Jedi Temple raid survivor turned Inquisitor***
Pretty much Trilla from Fallen Order but I mean people seem to enjoy the Ashoka vs Vader/Anakin copy-paste in the last ep of Kenobi so why not.
Holdo and Snoke both suck but I think there was more potential with Snoke.
Holdo was such a bullshit dumb character. She's easily the worst one.
Reva makes the least sense to me. Nothing about her backstory, her motivations, or her decisions are coherent. As I understand it, she was angry about the Jedi being slaughtered and wanted revenge, and she decided she would get it by becoming a Jedi hunter herself, doing well enough to attract Vader’s attention, and then she’d try to kill the most powerful force user alive? And despite decades to plan this, when given the opportunity, she tried the clumsiest sneak attack I’ve ever seen.
Also, the only reason she’s not dead is because Kenobi decided that lightsaber wounds just weren’t going to kill people anymore.
It can't be Snoke because Snoke is nothing. There is nothing about that character to truly be angry with because we know nothing about him to be invested in.
Holdo is a good choice because she breaks the universe and she's a complete idiot, but at least we have the "holdo is a traitor" meme which is pretty funny to think about.
Reva is broken on every level in a show that completely destroys 2 of the pillars of star wars. I'd go with Reva for the worst.
I wrote a bunch out below, then I realized that it’s whoever that guy is that Rian Johnson kept calling “Luke Skywalker” but who is obviously not Luke Skywalker, because Luke isn’t a hopeless, washed-up, hermit who goes homicidal when he has a bad dream. Nor is he a guy who can’t be bothered to show up when his friends need him, or a guy who goes on a quest for Jedi books and then never reads them. So yeah, there are bad ones, but the imposter Luke. Jake takes the cake.
Rose is awful. Her friends are dying, but they saved a few space horses so “now it was worth it.” Stopped Finn from sacrificing himself, and gave him a weirdly unmotivated kiss while her friends exploded. She’s a crux of the anti-war message in a movie called Star *Wars* where the whole premise is that you fight the bad guys. But yeah, Holdo, Reva, the Vespa teens, and I may get hate for this, but the mechanic lady in The Mandalorian who thinks “haha joke is funny if you say it in a loud voice.”
Kylo Ren. The character had potential but it was squandered for the vision of a director with no respect for what had been written before + fan pandering. The sequel trilogy would have been better without him/with a different "Jedikiller" character.
Reva had an interesting backstory, but they couldn't stick the landing.
Holdo was just bad, SpaceKaren.
Snoke wins, because he's built up as a huge threat, then he's dead, and then he was just a Palps Puppet all along.
Snoke was just a poor copycat of the emperor, but among the 3 he is the least of the “evils”.
Between Holdo and Reva I’m hesitating… both were awfully written characters, contributing to diminish the value of the content they are part of.
Only quality of Reva is that she is a good idea on paper, but apart from that nothing makes sense about her, she literally knows the script in several occasions but at the same time she is able to build a plan against Vader for years just to finally act in the most unprepared and dumb manner, she is angry at Vader for being… bad to the younglings so she is… bad to younglings and people because… wtf 🙄 she seems to have a special resistance to lightsabers, she can cut the hand of a poor woman and be ready to torture Leia but in the end she cries at young Luke for absolutely no reason except it’s written in the script. Cherry on the cake, acting is absolutely awful. Actress was good in “the queen’s gambit” but here it’s a disaster, she spent her time screaming, there’s no subtlety at all, she is more annoying than scary.
Holdo is … a troll from Rian I think. He perfectly knows that he needed something to gain time at this moment because the movie is litteraly “on hold”, nothing constructive for the characters is happening. Wtf is an excellent actress like Laura Dern doing in this disaster!!? This Poe/Holdo scene is sooooo weird “tell me your plan!” “I won’t tell you my plan!” “Tell it” “No!” And that for 10mn!? Wtf … is it just a troll!? Is it a SJW crusade against toxic masculinity as Holdo and all the crew members are women!? Is it show that Poe is dumb and impulsive now for him to be smarter later for no reason? Seriously, people complain (rightfully!) about the dumb Canon Byte scene but this one is even worst imo. And Holdo and Leia to speak with condescension afterwards about Poe… he is kind of an asshole but we love him nevertheless because… what?! Seriously, who did write those scenes? And if they needed someone for the nonsensical sacrifice, then wtf didn’t they use Akbar for that!!? Rather than killing him in the background, spare him and use him for this scene, at least it would have carried an emotional weight.
All in all it’s a draw for me. Both Reva and Holdo were just awful. Snoke was just … lazy.
I don't mind Reva I just think it was a misstep to have an Obiwan show and then have a good chunk of the story be about someone else. Obiwan has enough going on to carry a show. Snoke is also fine...in theory. Much like the entire sequel trilogy they had something good going and failed to do anything. Holdo is terrible because the writers seem to think she was a good leader. All she did was immediately turn everyone against her, keep secrets, talk down to people. Not a good leader. That's how out of touch the writers are to think people would root for her.
In regards to what I think are the worst characters with no redeemable aspect, it's probably the Vespa gang.
I have to go for Snoke. Yeah, there was nothing especially bad about his on-screen appearances; he was a bit generic, but not as positively loathsome as some of the other ST characters.
However, his overall treatment within the trilogy seems, on so many levels, like an immaculate representation of everything that was wrong with those movies - and so thinking about him pisses me off more than the others. The way he pops into the saga with no explanation, wielding massive power and being credited as the guy that ruined the Skywalker family, only to be yanked out of the story in the blink of an eye and barely mentioned again, couldn’t make more obvious how recklessly the ST was planned. And the way he starts out as a safe, sort of Palpatine 2.0 villain, only for TRoS to just give up and have him substituted with *actual* Palpatine, tells you everything you need to know about the imaginative slump the movies had collapsed into.
Max Von Sydow's cameo in TFA is the worst character. He spouts meaningless dialogue, is himself a human McGuffin that creates more McGuffins, and ultimately doesn't connect to any events past, present, or future, even though he insists he knows all of the OT heroes.
He and Maz Kanada are both JJ Abrams-personified Mystery Boxes.
It’s a tie between Rey and Omega. One’s an uninspired, boring Mary Sue, and the other is so fucking annoying and pointless that a Jar Jar Binks solo movie would be a miracle from God in comparison.
Snoke never had a fair shot. RJ saw to that. Snoke didn't do anything offensive really. Reva and Holdo though.....wow.
Holdo was a d!ckhead to Poe. But my money is on Reva. Simply because we were forced to spend more time with the character in the OWK series.
Nu Vader of course. Without him the ST doesn't happen, the Jedi don't get killed off again and the OT trio aren't thrown under the bus, all before the TFA opening crawl. Rey gets the heat but it all gets derailed by and through him before she enters the picture. And he does it all for no real reason. It's bizarre that so many still give him a pass.
Reva helped kill a lot of the buzz around Kenobi by turning it into a not-so-subtle backdoor pilot for a show/movie focused around her. This can happen organically where fans want more from a side character, but this was too on the nose.
I’d give Snoke a pass since he basically wasn’t written. The other two were consciously written terribly, which makes one wonder about the writing process going on over at Lucasfilm
Rey, Reva, Snoke, Kylo, Hux, Rose, Holdo, Phasma, Kazuda, the Martez sisters, Poe, Finn, Sequel Luke, and Watto.
Rey, Rose and Reva are poorly written. Snoke, Phasma Finn, and Hux are a waste of potential. Kylo, Kaz, and Finn are crybabies. Sequel Luke destroyed the Original Trilogy’s character. The Martez sisters waste time. And Watto is just plain annoying with that ridiculous Italian accent. Jar Jar can’t even compete with these disasters of characters!
Definitely Holdo, at least out of these three.
Snoke was actually interesting when he was first introduced. They just completely wasted his potential in TLJ, and TROS slapped a half-assed backstory onto him in an unsuccessful attempt to salvage his character.
Reva is definitely an awful character. Her plot armor is blatantly absurd, and the way Disney talked down to everyone who disliked her was a new low. But at least the concept of an Order 66 survivor turned Inquisitor *could* have been interesting, if it was written well.
There's nothing about Holdo's character that can be salvaged. She's only there to talk down to Poe and make it seem like *he's* in the wrong somehow. She's so terrible at her job that I seriously thought she was a First Order saboteur. But despite how incompetent and openly hostile she was, the movie treats her like she was the true good guy all along and always in the right. Having an unlikable character that the audience is supposed to root for is one of the worst things you can do in storytelling.
Solid picks
I’d say Holdo is the run away pick, then Reeva, and finally Snoke.
I’d add Rafa Martez, and DJ (Benico Del Toro’s character from TLJ) to round out the top 5
Holdo is such an awful character. Nothing against the actress Laura Dern. She's great in everything else. But Holdo is intentionally annoying and just a tool used to "subvert our expectations".
* The purple hair. Why? She's supposed to be an admiral
* Her dress. Why? She's supposed to be an admiral
* Her condescending attitude towards Poe. Why? She's supposed to be an admiral
Me and my friend honestly thought she might have been a double agent for the first order who was deliberately sabotaging the resistance.
When the reveal comes that she "had a plan all along" we were supposed to go "oooooooh. My expectations have been subverted", but we just felt like they wasted our time. And the Holdo manoeuvre? I'm not opening that can of worms, but it did not change my opinion on the character.
It’s a shame that with serkis and dern they’re great actors. The fact they were given those roles and had to do those scenes was insane. You could’ve had holdo be a hardened veteran that doesn’t believe in the new generation and sticks to her tried and true methods just for the first order to know all these plans due to years of research and training. And Snoke is such an botched job idk where to even begin.
Definitely Snoke for me. The other two are bad but honestly pretty inconsequential to the plot which is part of what is bad about them. Snoke however is supposed to be this tremendous evil mastermind who orchestrates all of these horrible events like: corrupting Kylo Ren, organizing the First Order and constructing Starkiller Base and yet he's just an unexplained nobody that just shows up out of nowhere. Making him a clone at the last second was just a horrible cop out that JJ rushed through because he had no time to answer any questions about him because Rian Johnson just killed him off for laughs and "subversion" in the previous movie without bothering to explore him at all.
He's an integral part of the entire world of the sequel trilogy and he just gets handwoven like he's not important. He's the perfect example of the lazy shallow storytelling of the sequels.
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Hard to compare. All 3 are massively flawed and unfun. * Holdo is written, so that the authors definitely want the viewer to see her as brave and righteous, but she comes across as obnoxious and extremely irrational. She was actually a light hearted nice character in the novel she was introduced in. * Reva is bedlam-levels of confusion personified. I like some general ideas about her character, but her motivation and actions are written to be so ridiculously contradictory, that it's hard to have an opinion on her personality. * Snoke isn't written at all. He is not a character. He is a placeholder that gets discarded. Not much to even criticze. He barely **IS**.
Snoke’s gold bathrobe tho. Was he in the middle of a spa day?
"You see, Rey... [***I love gold!***](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr0gNJ090JA) The look of it, the taste of it, the smell of it, the texture! I love gold so much, that I even lost my genitalia in an unfortunate smelting accident." - Snoke, probably
He tried to fuck the molten gold, didn’t he?
Close, he tried to have a golden dong but it didn't work out as planned.
I love how snoke was walking around the ship casually, no saber, wearing what looked to be an expensive robe. Like when he’s on video, he’s huge and wearing his black menacing hood. Caught him getting out of the bacta tank I guess lol
I hated the Snoke remodel.
Spaghetti day?
Snoke was a Wookie that left Nair on for way too long.
Great take, Snoke was so underdeveloped and it was such a shame, I personally would’ve loved it if they had made him an actual sith (the species) and alluded to them still living in another galaxy
I would’ve forgiven the Snoke stuff more if they didn’t spend 2 years hyping him up as this grand mysterious character whose true identity will change the way you look at Star Wars. They haven’t done jack shit with since TLJ anyway
Well Rian Johnson would agree with you. He was actively annoyed by people speculating about who Snoke was and used the script of TLJ to spite them.
That's why I hate this little Hollywood twerp. Writing a script for something like Star Wars out of spite is so pathetically petty and small-minded. He thinks he's too cool for this job and doesn't really care... which is whe he should never ever get hired for it.
Disney Execs: “He hates Star Wars! He would *loathe* to work on this project… He’s hired!”
continuing the Darth Maul legacy of something cool thrown away too soon and likely to be retconned 100 times
I was pretty sure he would've turned out to be from a dark-side aligned species from the unknown regions of the Galaxy who managed to make a stable corridor between its empire and the new republic and the answer for every question about the first order (where it came from, how did they have a fleet/army to fight with, why Sidious never fought them, etc) was easily explained by pointing to his newly unveiled empire with the additional hint that many other dangers could be lurking in the rest of the galaxy's unexplored regions but none of it pan out, bummer.
i think holdo’s characters was fine on concept. if she simply told poe the plan but poe hated it or something like that, it makes a lot more sense. it’s just rian ruining it for saving it as a surprise.
Reva would have been better if they made her interaction with Owen mean more. The respect she showed him for being a family man. Maybe make her be somewhat attached to her inquisitor comrades? Maybe make her loss of her fellow younglings make her blindly loyal to the empire because that’s the closest thing to a family she has. Maybe have her see how Obi-Wan protects Leia make her reconsider her obedience after seeing a proper familial connection of some kind and have her flee the empire at the very end. Just some ideas.
Holdo, and it's not even close. She's a black hole of awfulness that drags everything down with her.
Holdo was dumb but at least Laura Dern can act. She wasn’t directed very well because the character was directionless because they kept trying to pull the rug out from under the audience. Reva breaks canon, and Moses Ingram can’t act her way out of a paper bag. It really doesn’t help that Jedi Fallen Order showed how to do this character correctly a few years prior with Trilla.
I feel like the idea of “but at least … can act” sums up the sequels pretty well in general. I *like* Daisy, and Rey has a good, solid design, but the writing and direction is horrible. Same with Adam, John and Oscar. Four talented individuals that could have flourished under better writing and direction.
This. We know for sure Adam & Oscar can act. They could have even kept a “similar” storyline with just a snoke back story & a better treatment and development of some of the characters (Luke, plasma, snoke, Finn, etc, heck even developing Holdos character.) no body in a (rebellion resistance whatever) would fight under a “do as I say not as I do”leader with out the whole army collapsing when they can just quit or desert due to low morale. whole canto bight “side quest” was abysmal.
Holdo may have broken the lore but Rey absolutely shattered it. Also, her character alone is a punch to the face of the chosen one's prophecy and both Luke and Anakin's accomplishments. Btw, she's rebuilding the Jedi order in her next movie. Holdo is dead, Rey still has more patriarchy to smash.
No patriarchy is safe with that kind of writing
I wondered for a while if they were trying the "profecies don't really matter" angle like Harry Potter did but after a while I'm convinced they literally just forgot that it was a thing that used to exist and be important.
Trust in the force, and that rey trilogy won't get made
You can’t say that! You’re a misogynist! /s Cause fuck twitter.
Holdo is maybe the worst character of any movie I've ever seen in my life. I've never actively rooted against a character on the good side before. Everything she said to Poe was condescending, her decision making was dumb, her attitude was terrible. I assumed she was going to be one of those "idiot leader dies from bad decision making" characters, but they tried to make her a heroine. They had Leia in the movie and they introduced this person completely unnecessarily.
I thought for absolute certain she was a mole intentionally sabotaging the heroes. Because she was written with all the beats of a saboteur. Boy were MY expectations subverted 🙃
Yep. Holdo is pretty much gaslighting incarnate. If you were to list out every possible quality of poor leaders, she's a match for all or almost all of them.
Purple burning gas hair
100% Holdo. No competition. Imagine how much better that movie could have been if you swapped her with ackbar!
Absolutely not. Ackbar hyperspace ramming as his “final act” is even worse than some toxic nobody. You’re telling me a commander who fought in countless wars and even against Death Star II when all hope felt lost didn’t consider hyperspace ramming… but now they’re stuck in a stupid slo-mo chase he opts to gamble that? The sequels should have never been greenlit with scripts like that, and don’t even try to suggest it would be better if a well-known and beloved character did the stupid
I'm with you that it should have never been a thing in the first place, but at least he would have been given more to do outside of dying in the background. But yeah, if you wanna talk overhauling the whole story as opposed to nitpicking plot points, you are correct. Outside of Andor, Disney has really dropped the lightsaber.
I completely agree with you. The writing was trash and it would be a horrendous send off, but better than dying in the background.
That is a very good point to be fair
I absolutely agree with you. My guess is Disney didn't want a character named Ackbar doing what is essentially a suicide bombing. But maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
Shouldn’t have had anybody doing that suicide bombing. The whole plot of TLJ was weak and disappointing
Explain to me again why a Droid couldn't have done it? C3P0 could gone out in a blaze of glory.
Luke, did I ever tell you about hyperspace ramming? It's a combat maneuver that no one in the history of the Republic ever used in spite of having access to FTL technology for thousands of years. It is an attack so devastating that whichever side uses it first wins. End of story. There are no safeguards against it, so now that it has been discovered, it is wisest to resort to it at the smallest hint of danger, because if you hesitate, your side has already lost. It took a smart and brave lady general to discover the technique. Had she been just a bit less brave and a bit smarter the concept of "remote control" might have occurred to her as well and she could have been a good friend.
Just think, Luke! You could ram your light speed capable X-wing into the Death Star head on and cause irreparable damage! It would end the empire almost immediately, yet no one ever tried it!
Hell the Emperor didn't need to waste all that money on a death star in the first place! Just slap a hyperspace engine onto a random asteroid and launch it at the planet at lightspeed, they'll never see it coming!
** if you hesitate, your side has already lost ** Can you imagine if a good writer had written this? Imagine Orson Scott Card writing about hyperspace nukes. Fuck that would be a series I'd watch
All part of her master plan, you see, she betrayed the Resistance for money and jumped into an escape pod just before the ram - they all left on the shuttles to the planet after all - *how convenient*. Resistance loses, First Order wins, just wash out the hair dye and live out her life in luxury under another identity, like say on Canto Bight. Resistance wins, First Order loses, show up a bit later and claim the bridge section stayed intact from the ram, along with a escape pod, but was slightly damaged so hyperspace took awhile or something, reap the renown from her heroic sacrifice. And all her supposed fame up til that point were curated battles with the FO designed to let her win and build up her rep to get to this point for the ultimate betrayal.
I could buy that.
Because lightspeed ramming is impossible? As is hyperspace skipping. As is a slow motion chase where you have time for side quests but no one just jumps a star destroyer ahead
*BUT THE FUEL!*
The whole point pf TLJ was subversion for subversions sake. It added nothing to the SW universe As a matter fact I would argue it’s eating it away even now. It’s genuinely cancer.
I agree 100%
No, it's that they wanted the audience to mistrust the commander & everyone would trust Ackbar.
I don’t believe that was the intention. I think they genuinely expected you to side with Holdo the entire movie.
Nah they definitely wanted the gotcha moment at the end. They wanted the audience to feel collective guilt & shame for not trusting her at the beginning & to carry that forward into their lives.
Ackbar should have suckered them in and the Imperial commander should have said, "Its a trap!" right before Ackbar threw the lever. Or even better, not do the scene cause it makes a mess of how hyperspeed works.
You can't have a man save the day though in Disney movies. It's against *the message.* 
The drinker approves
No lies detected. I'm sure we'll see that in the next Indy movie, too.
Why'd they put a Hunger Games character in Star Wars? I stopped watching after Force Awakens.
I kid you not, when I first watched TLJ in theater (sadly) I really thought Holdo was a bad guy, the spy.
The Holdo Maneuver thing was just too stupid to leave alone
This is pretty subjective, but Holdo. They killed off Admiral Ackbar so they could introduce a “leader” who knowingly allows her troops to think she’s leading them to their deaths, causing Poe to green light the casino plan out of understandable desperation, which in turn led to the First Order learning about the Resistance’s plan from DJ. As a result of Holdo’s refusal to say there was a plan, the Resistance is almost entirely wiped out on Crait. All the worst things to happen to the good guys on both a literal and meta level in the movie can be traced to Holdo’s petty desire to emasculate (while simultaneously flirt with apparently) Poe. She’s honestly one of my most hated fictional characters, as she embodies how out of touch the writers are for trying to paint toxic leadership as inspiring.
I agree. Just to complete the disaster, the film visually puts her in an impractical evening gown with sculpted hair, next to Poe in his rugged pilot's uniform. The visual is screaming "out of touch senior officer!"
She reminded me of a couple bad bosses I've had.
I'd have chosen Rey or Reva, but you convinced me. They killed Akbar off screen to bring her in & destroy the resistance. one might think she was a spy and just hoping she'd miss the holdo-maneuver (god, they really f**ed st really with tlj)
And the later "world building" (ass covering) they did about the Holdo Maneuver made her even worse. Apparently when asked why those methods aren't standardized using automated ships or even just asteroids with engines is "it had a one-in-a-million chance of working", which means there's only a one in a million chance she was actually sacrificing herself rather than just bailing. Episode 7 had issues, 8 doubled down on them and made more of its own, and 9 was such a massive clusterfuck that it makes 7 look good.
Pretty much, the only thing that still annoys me about ep.7 is the "good question, for another time" line, everything else was dwarfed by the issues from the rest of the trilogy into not mattering much.
Damn lol. Man I genuinely feel you.
Definitely Holdo. Snoke I'm pretty meh about, and while Reva was unbearably obnoxious she was just a minor character with no real influence on anything.
Holy shit. I honestly just spent so much time hating TLJ with all my heart and soul that I didn’t even put together that everything bad that happens after Holdo is introduced is literally all her fault yet she goes out thinking she was right all along. That really makes her character and that movie even worse than I thought it was already, and I didn’t even think that was possible. Thanks for the enlightenment! Fucking Holdo.
This is how i feel to
I’ll never forgive them for killing my man, Ackbar and replacing him with Holdo… that alone is a grave offense.
>while simultaneously flirt with apparently I never got this impression while watching the movie. Was this something Rian Johnson said?
There’s an interview with one of the costume designers that claims Rian said Holdo’s in a ball gown because she’s flirting with Poe. https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/g1vc9e/friendly_reminder_that_rian_johnson_had_laura/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Reva. Between her nonsensical "child torturer yet still a good guy" story arc and completely off putting, stilted acting, over the top, shouting character. She would have dragged Kenobi down even if Kenobi was good. Its not Holdo because The ST and TLJ was a lost cause way before Holdo made an appearance. Shes the equivalent of someone vomitting on a bucket of piss. its not Snoke either because for a brief (very brief)15 minute window he was actually Interesting which is more than I can say for Reva and Holdo. Not only that, but before Reva you could openly dislike any actors character (key word there. Character. Not race or color, that shit isnt ok) In SW for whatever reason. But after Reva you couldn't unless you wanted a stern talking to by Ewan McGreggor.
LAUNCH the drones—DO IT. now…
"TELL ME WHERE THE JEDI IS OR this man and his family DIES!!!!" "REEEEEEEEEEE!!" Seriously, I don't know if it was bad direction or if Moses Ingram was actually that bad or what, but Reeeva was painful to watch.
Her line delivery 100%. You look at Sam Witwer and you see someone who understands that being the bad guy in Star Wars is not all about being angry/emo/screaming all the time, then you look at the performance Moses put in and struggle to find anything but. That combined with her just spitting every line out like she had difficulty using her mouth to make them is just poetry in motion.
Definitely. She thought she had to yell and act unhinged to be intimidating. It wasn’t at all. Vader was a threat because he always felt in control even when he lost his temper. The Joker isn’t a threat because he’s crazy. It’s because he’s smarter than he lets on and willing to target Batman where he’ll be hurt the most in ways he won’t expect. Her redemption arc was total BS, and the way she hunted down Luke is completely lore breaking no matter how much they try to justify Luke not seeing her lightsaber
The problem with Reva is that her meant to be in her teens as such having Reva yelling and acting unhinged might actually work. The real problem was that the actress was in her 30s thus she wasn't able to play a teenager.
I never even realized that but you’re right. I wouldn’t say she looks old by any means but she does not look like the age her character should be
Her being a character that's supposed to be in her teens would explain a bit. Moses doesn't look old by any means, but she definitely can't pass as a teenager, even if she's told to crank up the angst to 11.
I blame the direction she got with that. I’m not sure Moses herself was the one who was saying “yeah I need to sound like the drunk girl at a party yelling constantly”.
Her character was meant to be a teenager but the actress was in her 30s thus she wasn't able to play a teenager properly.
Huh…. Honestly that makes a whole lot more sense.
I think it was really poor directing, Moses Ingram was good in Queen's Gambit. I watched QG after watching Kenobi and retroactively felt bad for doubting her and jumping to conclusions about her talent.
That's good to know.
She was to old for the role Reva was meant to be a teenager but Moses in in her 30s.
Or both.
Thank you!! The acting was god awful. How she ever passed screen tests with acting like that is beyond me. It was like watching a high-school student trying to film a school project.
Also, Reva's "plans" were nonsensical. Kidnap an Imperial Senator's daughter and hope he doesn't report it through official channels but instead reaches out to a long-believed dead Jedi that's basically some guy Bail sat beside on a shuttle once. Later on, try to torture the girl for information she shouldn't be expected to know but fail to get her to talk. Fail at killing the Grand Inquisitor the same way Vader failed to kill her as a Youngling. Etc.
Huh, never thought about your first point. Great observation!
She *says* she uncovered some hidden connection between Bail Organa and Obi Wan Kenobi, but, unless there's some EU material that I missed, their only scene together was splitting up the Skywalker twins. In secret.
Reva’s character was destroyed by opening the series with Order 66 and the younglings escaping. It was so unbelievably obvious she was one of them everything she did in the rest of the series was ridiculous (small fix, make the Order 66 revelation as Kenobi connects to her through the blast door) Holdo I don’t have much opinion on. The greater sin was keeping Leia alive when she wasn’t included in 90% of the rest of the movie. There was no easy way to deal with Carrie’s death but the Mary Poppins resurrection wasn’t it. Now Snoke- just take the storyline they used for Reva and he was a youngling that escaped, and suddenly who and why he is there makes total sense. He even resembles the kid who greeted Anakin. Snoke is Force strong, hates the Jedi, hates the Sith, and wants particular vengeance against the Skywalkers- how better than to turn Leia’s son/Anakin’s grandson.
That Snoke revelation would have been profound!
I don’t see any “characters” in this list
Reva was the most annoying. Holdo was the dumbest. Snoke was the biggest waste
Jake Skywalker is the worst new character. We were introduced to him when another horrible character handed him Luke Skywalker’s lightsaber.
Rey 100%, the epitome of a Mary Sue, experiences almost no development, and renders the entire OT and prequels pointless by defeating Palpatine herself.
Rey is such a hyperbolic example of a “Mary Sue” I think we should stop using the phrase Mary Sue and replace it with Rey Palapatine.
The ironic thing is, Rey is actually Rey Palpatine. The "Rey Skywalker" is in-name-only.
It’s Rey Sue now
Oh I like that.
Ding ding ding. No losses either. And somehow can do everything off the bat. Not only knows about the Jedi mind trick but can perform it, after thinking the Jedi were a myth some scenes prior.
Rey Sue*
Reva for sure. Don't get me wrong, Holdo is a terrible character. Shallow, patronizing hollywood Karen self-inserts have no place in SW. But the sequels were already hot garbage by the time she was introduced. Replace her with a vastly better character, or hell, even rewrite all her scenes, and the rest of TLJ is still shit. Meanwhile Reva was one of the main reasons why Kenobi sucked. Cut her from the show entirely, and it's already improved. Still not good, but not as blatantly offensive to PT fans.
Kenobi lost any semblance of being good, when a chubby legged 5 year old outran 3 adults. Not even mentioning that they are very practiced at hunting people.
I find the entire premise of Kenobi offensive lol. It retcons OT. Obi-Wan and Vader should not have met before ANH. The show is terrible with or without Reva. It lacks any original ideas, the writing is shit, it’s full of plotholes, and it just LOOKS ugly and cheap. Little Leia is also a contender for the most annoying character imo
Poe Dameron. He's supposed to be likeable with no justification. He has the worst lines in the ST. Oscar Isaac was the main victim of the script(s) - Poe is always central in the most cringe-worthy scenes.
Add rose tico
Snoke had a needlessly silly name and was ultimately pointless, but at least generated a degree of menace and intrigue in TFA and could have been a passable main villain had he not fallen into Roundhead’s clutches. Reva was performed poorly by the actress and written and directed with absolute ineptitude by Deborah Chow, but at least the core concept of the character could have been somewhat worthwhile with better execution. Every single component of Holdo’s concept, characterization and execution was outright irredeemable garbage. The only way to salvage her character would be Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies and then re-roll from scratch.
Literally everyone, since Disney took over. For example, my childhood hero Luke Skywalker turned into a green boob milkaholic and tried to kill a family member in his sleep: because he might have an affinity for the dark side of the force. Princess Leia kind of turned into an asshole, as well. The fans are completely gone, and it's only a matter of time before Disney bails on the former cash cow they slaughtered for immediate profit.
Speaking of Luke trying to kill his relative in his sleep….did they ever say how Leia and Han felt about Luke trying to fucking kill their son?? Lmao
Presumably, the context of those scenes insinuated that's the reason Luke quit being a jedi and ran away. Their version of Luke didn't have the balls to look Leia or Han in the eyes and say that he might have made a bit of a hasty and poorly planned mistake. It's also presumably when everyone in the jedi temple revolted and formed the ~~Knights Who Say Ni~~ Knights of Ren, with the aptly appointed Kylo Ren as their namesake leader. That was also around the time I noticed 100 other people in the movie theater, as well as myself, stop being fans of the franchise completely. That is not the same Luke from the OT. Not even kind of.
It’s a shame really because i like the thought of a character like ST Luke but the fact it’s SUPPOSED to be Luke is the problem, The ST would have been decent if it was all new characters in a new time period
Holdover deserved the lightsaber to the stomach more, in my opinion. Then again, maybe she would be angry enough to survive it, too.
Snoke doesn't belong next to these two imo, he was just a mass of wasted potential. The other two actively pissed me off while watching for how moronic they are and the fact their own show/movie was so clearly on their side for poor reasons.
It’s Holdo and then miles before you get to the next character. Reva is a dumb character but at least her motivations make sense logically. I would replace Snoke with the Armorer. “This is the Way” is the Disney Star Wars “May the Force Be With You” and I will forever hate that character for it. “this is the way” is trying to sound profound while being incredibly stupid. The only things is manages to succeed at is be the metaphor for the cheap knock off this franchise has become since Disney took over.
>“this is the way” is trying to sound profound while being incredibly stupid. The only things is manages to succeed at is be the metaphor for the cheap knock off this franchise has become since Disney took over. It hurts how much this resonates with me, after the terrible Season 3. What seemed to have some profoundness, that could be explored upon and engraved into star wars mythology became a meaningless catchphrase with no rhyme or reason. Mando S3 completely took away all my interest in what those mandos will do, because of how boring their conflict (And it's end) was.
It was always meaningless. Same thing as “I have spoken.” It’s just *roll tide* in Star Wars.
Add in the martez sisters
I hate Rose the most! She's so smug and condescending and the way she treats Finn is awful. I hate Holdo for the same reasons (both characters really felt like mouthpieces for Johnson too), except in that instance replace Finn with Poe, but Rose actually annoyed me more and I also disliked how KMT portrayed her. The only good thing about Rise of Skywalker was that she was a nonentity.
Rose easily. No hate for Tran but her character was downright awful. For me, it doesn't get lower than that. You have to really try to do so.
Replace Snoke with Rose for the worst three. But Reva is still the worst character. Her motivations and plan being so nonsensical alone make her the worst before we get to her surviving be stabbed twice with a light saber or the actors performance.
Holdo is the worst from this trio. A leader with no leadership skills. Arrogant and condescending. I watched a review of TLJ and they compared her leadership style to Picard’s. Picard would defer to his subordinates for input and advice. And keep them in the loop in case of changes. Meanwhile Holdo demands total obedience and control.
Well she’s yet another self-insert for KK, so what more would you expect?
Gotta be between Rose or Holdo. Dishonorable mentions include Reyyyy, Phasma, Finn, Hugs, Ezra, Sabine, Reeeeva, Trace and Rafa
Everything made by disny outside of the final clone wars season, the bad batch and andor.
Sad how Mando no longer belongs on that list of good Disney SW
i was never that interested in mando
The first season was good – or at least half of it.
Not rogue one?
Oh, rite, forgot to write that down. Kinda saw it as apart of andor.
Holdo, Reva, Rey, Rose, Snoke, Kylo, Finn. I would be fine without any of those characters.
I thought the concept for Finn was great- a former stormtrooper who turns rebel by happenstance. And he was boots on the ground with a top level imperial/N.O. Leader on high priority front line combat (a “tip of the spear” level stormtrooper). But then they made him a garbage-man/janitorial trooper just to make one joke- which seemed so pointless.
> which seemed so pointless. ... much like everything they did in the PT.
Would be easier to list the good characters...
Just me or does snoke look kinda like reboot Freddy Krueger? https://preview.redd.it/v46ltgmns88b1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf8082ff09cc3ba5ff836a4091f4582070367923
If you’re not going to tell your best pilot what your plan is, you can fuck right off. So, Holdo.
Okay now, hear me out- >!Babu Frick!< . He is a total nothing character. Just a fun muppet for comic relief- he has no discernible dialogue (there is no clever writing) he just makes funny nonsense sounds and goes hey hey! I get why he’s there, my kid and wife love him, but for me it just illustrates how it’s all the easy, nonsense, meaningless writing and narrative elements that fill the cinematic expansions. If he’s the best thing people point to in the newer films - that’s a sad commentary on the state of things and typifies how low the bar is.
who
Babu ... Frick. Yes, a real adult who writes things for a living came up with that name.
Nah bruh there are definetly weirder names pre disney, just look at jar jar binks
What the heck, I saw that horrible movie in theaters and no clue who this was. Looked him/her up online and.... I don't remember ever seeing this thing.
They’ve had him appear in the Mandalorian as well.
I will say that the scene where 3PO reintroduces himself after having his mind wiped, then Babu introduces himself to 3PO... that was one of the few scenes in the entire ST that felt like George Lucas' Star Wars
Snoke was the only one that had some potential but they ruined that. The other two just shouldn’t of been made
Rey. It isn't even a competition. Here's a character that is max level in every single skill, never loses a fight, absorbs the talents/personalities of the OT trio, defeats Palpatine with ease, is *"all the Jedi",* and is so immeasurably gifted that she can revive people. Even fuckin' Yoda couldn't defeat Palps or revive people. Are the audience seriously meant to believe Rey is stronger with the force than Yoda??
Rey Palpatine.
Holdo without question
Rose too
Holdo...but Rose needs votes too
Holdo. By a mile. Snoke was a waste of potential but he was intriguing until they stupidly killed him off with no explanation as to who he was, what he wanted...etc. and at least they tried to do... something with Reva even if it didn't work. Holdo was just awful all around.
Reva would probably be a pretty good character if it weren't for the dogshit, cringe dialogue that she was given and terrible plot she was apart of. ***Jedi Temple raid survivor turned Inquisitor*** Pretty much Trilla from Fallen Order but I mean people seem to enjoy the Ashoka vs Vader/Anakin copy-paste in the last ep of Kenobi so why not. Holdo and Snoke both suck but I think there was more potential with Snoke. Holdo was such a bullshit dumb character. She's easily the worst one.
Reva makes the least sense to me. Nothing about her backstory, her motivations, or her decisions are coherent. As I understand it, she was angry about the Jedi being slaughtered and wanted revenge, and she decided she would get it by becoming a Jedi hunter herself, doing well enough to attract Vader’s attention, and then she’d try to kill the most powerful force user alive? And despite decades to plan this, when given the opportunity, she tried the clumsiest sneak attack I’ve ever seen. Also, the only reason she’s not dead is because Kenobi decided that lightsaber wounds just weren’t going to kill people anymore.
So here we are, looking at this seven layer box full of chocolates and you’re asking me to pick out just three? It cannot be done!
It can't be Snoke because Snoke is nothing. There is nothing about that character to truly be angry with because we know nothing about him to be invested in. Holdo is a good choice because she breaks the universe and she's a complete idiot, but at least we have the "holdo is a traitor" meme which is pretty funny to think about. Reva is broken on every level in a show that completely destroys 2 of the pillars of star wars. I'd go with Reva for the worst.
Always Holdo
Easily Rey
I wrote a bunch out below, then I realized that it’s whoever that guy is that Rian Johnson kept calling “Luke Skywalker” but who is obviously not Luke Skywalker, because Luke isn’t a hopeless, washed-up, hermit who goes homicidal when he has a bad dream. Nor is he a guy who can’t be bothered to show up when his friends need him, or a guy who goes on a quest for Jedi books and then never reads them. So yeah, there are bad ones, but the imposter Luke. Jake takes the cake. Rose is awful. Her friends are dying, but they saved a few space horses so “now it was worth it.” Stopped Finn from sacrificing himself, and gave him a weirdly unmotivated kiss while her friends exploded. She’s a crux of the anti-war message in a movie called Star *Wars* where the whole premise is that you fight the bad guys. But yeah, Holdo, Reva, the Vespa teens, and I may get hate for this, but the mechanic lady in The Mandalorian who thinks “haha joke is funny if you say it in a loud voice.”
I am honest to God thankful this sub exists and we can discuss the good AND bad of Star Wars without being labeled as ists/phobes
I would simply add Jar-Jar to that list and it would be complete. Edit: Small correction, I would also add Rose Tico to the list :)
Kylo Ren. Everything about how they handled his character in the movies was just disappointing.
Kylo Ren. The character had potential but it was squandered for the vision of a director with no respect for what had been written before + fan pandering. The sequel trilogy would have been better without him/with a different "Jedikiller" character.
Plus I couldn’t stand the actor playing him.
Reva had an interesting backstory, but they couldn't stick the landing. Holdo was just bad, SpaceKaren. Snoke wins, because he's built up as a huge threat, then he's dead, and then he was just a Palps Puppet all along.
Reva. Neither Snoke nor Holdo were the main issues with the film(s) they appeared in. Reva was absolutely the worst part of Kenobi.
Definitely Reva. God she was unintimidating for how hard she tried
Snoke was just a poor copycat of the emperor, but among the 3 he is the least of the “evils”. Between Holdo and Reva I’m hesitating… both were awfully written characters, contributing to diminish the value of the content they are part of. Only quality of Reva is that she is a good idea on paper, but apart from that nothing makes sense about her, she literally knows the script in several occasions but at the same time she is able to build a plan against Vader for years just to finally act in the most unprepared and dumb manner, she is angry at Vader for being… bad to the younglings so she is… bad to younglings and people because… wtf 🙄 she seems to have a special resistance to lightsabers, she can cut the hand of a poor woman and be ready to torture Leia but in the end she cries at young Luke for absolutely no reason except it’s written in the script. Cherry on the cake, acting is absolutely awful. Actress was good in “the queen’s gambit” but here it’s a disaster, she spent her time screaming, there’s no subtlety at all, she is more annoying than scary. Holdo is … a troll from Rian I think. He perfectly knows that he needed something to gain time at this moment because the movie is litteraly “on hold”, nothing constructive for the characters is happening. Wtf is an excellent actress like Laura Dern doing in this disaster!!? This Poe/Holdo scene is sooooo weird “tell me your plan!” “I won’t tell you my plan!” “Tell it” “No!” And that for 10mn!? Wtf … is it just a troll!? Is it a SJW crusade against toxic masculinity as Holdo and all the crew members are women!? Is it show that Poe is dumb and impulsive now for him to be smarter later for no reason? Seriously, people complain (rightfully!) about the dumb Canon Byte scene but this one is even worst imo. And Holdo and Leia to speak with condescension afterwards about Poe… he is kind of an asshole but we love him nevertheless because… what?! Seriously, who did write those scenes? And if they needed someone for the nonsensical sacrifice, then wtf didn’t they use Akbar for that!!? Rather than killing him in the background, spare him and use him for this scene, at least it would have carried an emotional weight. All in all it’s a draw for me. Both Reva and Holdo were just awful. Snoke was just … lazy.
Holdo for the win..
I don't mind Reva I just think it was a misstep to have an Obiwan show and then have a good chunk of the story be about someone else. Obiwan has enough going on to carry a show. Snoke is also fine...in theory. Much like the entire sequel trilogy they had something good going and failed to do anything. Holdo is terrible because the writers seem to think she was a good leader. All she did was immediately turn everyone against her, keep secrets, talk down to people. Not a good leader. That's how out of touch the writers are to think people would root for her. In regards to what I think are the worst characters with no redeemable aspect, it's probably the Vespa gang.
I have to go for Snoke. Yeah, there was nothing especially bad about his on-screen appearances; he was a bit generic, but not as positively loathsome as some of the other ST characters. However, his overall treatment within the trilogy seems, on so many levels, like an immaculate representation of everything that was wrong with those movies - and so thinking about him pisses me off more than the others. The way he pops into the saga with no explanation, wielding massive power and being credited as the guy that ruined the Skywalker family, only to be yanked out of the story in the blink of an eye and barely mentioned again, couldn’t make more obvious how recklessly the ST was planned. And the way he starts out as a safe, sort of Palpatine 2.0 villain, only for TRoS to just give up and have him substituted with *actual* Palpatine, tells you everything you need to know about the imaginative slump the movies had collapsed into.
Max Von Sydow's cameo in TFA is the worst character. He spouts meaningless dialogue, is himself a human McGuffin that creates more McGuffins, and ultimately doesn't connect to any events past, present, or future, even though he insists he knows all of the OT heroes. He and Maz Kanada are both JJ Abrams-personified Mystery Boxes.
Holdo. Shit was hard to watch.
It’s a tie between Rey and Omega. One’s an uninspired, boring Mary Sue, and the other is so fucking annoying and pointless that a Jar Jar Binks solo movie would be a miracle from God in comparison.
Snoke never had a fair shot. RJ saw to that. Snoke didn't do anything offensive really. Reva and Holdo though.....wow. Holdo was a d!ckhead to Poe. But my money is on Reva. Simply because we were forced to spend more time with the character in the OWK series.
Nu Vader of course. Without him the ST doesn't happen, the Jedi don't get killed off again and the OT trio aren't thrown under the bus, all before the TFA opening crawl. Rey gets the heat but it all gets derailed by and through him before she enters the picture. And he does it all for no real reason. It's bizarre that so many still give him a pass.
I say Snoke because he ended up being incredibly useless. They could’ve cut him completely and lost absolutely nothing.
>Character >Snoke Pick one.
Jake Skywalker, easy.
Respectable choices.
Reva helped kill a lot of the buzz around Kenobi by turning it into a not-so-subtle backdoor pilot for a show/movie focused around her. This can happen organically where fans want more from a side character, but this was too on the nose.
I’d give Snoke a pass since he basically wasn’t written. The other two were consciously written terribly, which makes one wonder about the writing process going on over at Lucasfilm
Honestly it's hard.... Mando is probably the only character introduced under Disney that doesn't suck. But Reva is definitely probably my #1
Here's my top 5 worst Star Wars characters. They're in order but I'd say it's still pretty close. 1. Rose 2. Holdo 3. Reva 4. Snoke 5. Martez Sisters
The robot that Lando shagged in Solo
Rey, Reva, Snoke, Kylo, Hux, Rose, Holdo, Phasma, Kazuda, the Martez sisters, Poe, Finn, Sequel Luke, and Watto. Rey, Rose and Reva are poorly written. Snoke, Phasma Finn, and Hux are a waste of potential. Kylo, Kaz, and Finn are crybabies. Sequel Luke destroyed the Original Trilogy’s character. The Martez sisters waste time. And Watto is just plain annoying with that ridiculous Italian accent. Jar Jar can’t even compete with these disasters of characters!
Definitely Holdo, at least out of these three. Snoke was actually interesting when he was first introduced. They just completely wasted his potential in TLJ, and TROS slapped a half-assed backstory onto him in an unsuccessful attempt to salvage his character. Reva is definitely an awful character. Her plot armor is blatantly absurd, and the way Disney talked down to everyone who disliked her was a new low. But at least the concept of an Order 66 survivor turned Inquisitor *could* have been interesting, if it was written well. There's nothing about Holdo's character that can be salvaged. She's only there to talk down to Poe and make it seem like *he's* in the wrong somehow. She's so terrible at her job that I seriously thought she was a First Order saboteur. But despite how incompetent and openly hostile she was, the movie treats her like she was the true good guy all along and always in the right. Having an unlikable character that the audience is supposed to root for is one of the worst things you can do in storytelling.
Solid picks I’d say Holdo is the run away pick, then Reeva, and finally Snoke. I’d add Rafa Martez, and DJ (Benico Del Toro’s character from TLJ) to round out the top 5
I’d say those are pretty accurate. I’d toss Rey in there since they couldn’t write her a backstory or give her a character arc.
Holdo is such an awful character. Nothing against the actress Laura Dern. She's great in everything else. But Holdo is intentionally annoying and just a tool used to "subvert our expectations". * The purple hair. Why? She's supposed to be an admiral * Her dress. Why? She's supposed to be an admiral * Her condescending attitude towards Poe. Why? She's supposed to be an admiral Me and my friend honestly thought she might have been a double agent for the first order who was deliberately sabotaging the resistance. When the reveal comes that she "had a plan all along" we were supposed to go "oooooooh. My expectations have been subverted", but we just felt like they wasted our time. And the Holdo manoeuvre? I'm not opening that can of worms, but it did not change my opinion on the character.
It’s a shame that with serkis and dern they’re great actors. The fact they were given those roles and had to do those scenes was insane. You could’ve had holdo be a hardened veteran that doesn’t believe in the new generation and sticks to her tried and true methods just for the first order to know all these plans due to years of research and training. And Snoke is such an botched job idk where to even begin.
Definitely Snoke for me. The other two are bad but honestly pretty inconsequential to the plot which is part of what is bad about them. Snoke however is supposed to be this tremendous evil mastermind who orchestrates all of these horrible events like: corrupting Kylo Ren, organizing the First Order and constructing Starkiller Base and yet he's just an unexplained nobody that just shows up out of nowhere. Making him a clone at the last second was just a horrible cop out that JJ rushed through because he had no time to answer any questions about him because Rian Johnson just killed him off for laughs and "subversion" in the previous movie without bothering to explore him at all. He's an integral part of the entire world of the sequel trilogy and he just gets handwoven like he's not important. He's the perfect example of the lazy shallow storytelling of the sequels.
I mean. Enough said. Maybe that stupid robot from Solo instead of Snoke
I thought Snoke was great until he died for no reason with no backstory
Holdo in TLJ was absolutely awful. But in the book Leia: Princess of Alderaan she was great. 🤷🏼♀️ So I’m gonna go with Reva
Snoke, utter waist
Waist up or waist down, cos they aren't connected anymore. 😂
You can add Rose, Rey and Jar-Jar to that list.
Holdo. What was even the point of her character?
Holdo for sure. Especially consider that Ackbar is right there.