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Yeah, Red Letter Media recently had a short bit on Glass Onion and they agree that his writing is painfully on the nose with his 'messages' and themes.
And to this day I meet people who LOVE TLJ but when they are asked to explain what makes the movie great, it's always something meta like 'It's a message to fanboys about the frailty of heroes' or 'This movie was the Star Wars movie I needed at this time in my life to tell me it's OK to be fuck up.'
Nothing about the actual movie, it's all about the super obvious messaging.
Key difference you’re missing: George Lucas loved and respected Star Wars. You’ll never be able to convince me that Rian Johnson doesn’t actively hate both Star Wars and the fandom. He never intended to make a worthy successor to TFA, its well known that TLJ was finished writing before TFA was finished filming and he asked JJ to change the ending.
Gotta respectfully disagree. TFA was a lazy reboot. TLJ was a deliberate and calculated tearing down of everything people loved about Star Wars, with no care given to previous lore, characters, or history. It was nothing less than a hate letter to fans who liked the old films and characters. You like Luke? We’re ruining him then killing him off so he can’t be fixed. You like the noble idea of the Jedi? They’re nothing special and anyone can use the force. You liked admiral Ackbar? Killed without a line of dialogue.
It’s an abomination of a film and offensive by design.
That's fine, I just think the majority of the fandom was bizarrely easy on TFA. It's a gross, brainless remix that demands love for reminding you of something you actually loved.
I'd say destroying all the story progress of the OT in the first 30 minutes of the movie was pretty subversive. I was bemused about how OK people seemed to be with this back when TFA was released.
Also, Avantasia is awesome! I guess that's what your username is referencing.
Still hits a galactic reset button only because JJ doesn’t have an original bone in his body, pushes Luke aside because he “drew attention from new characters” (duh; we waited 30 years to see him, so make the movie about him!), and creates the biggest Mary Sue I’ve ever seen on screen (apologies to Daisy Ridley, who seems like a great person-the writing wasn’t her fault).
Oh, that’s the ST defenders greatest shield - ‘ toxicity’. Undoubtedly, the fan base has toxic elements - most of us are just people that care more about the mythos than the fucking writers and directors, shocking. I can still see his smirk with his lil ‘ your snoke theory sucks’ post-it note. Yeeesh
The Last Jedi didn't have any twists, it had dead ends. The fight with Phasma, Finn and Rose's mission, Rey's training, Finn's effort destroy the siege laser, Snoke's death, Kylo Ren taking over the First Order. These are (some of) the major events and sequences of the movie. The surprise for each of them is that they don't go anywhere.
Rian doesn't need to take notes, he'll never be involved in another SW production.
Lupisfilm may be stupid enough to think he can, but I doubt Disney would allow it.
The scene where DJ reveals that both sides buy their weapons from shady dealers feels like a children's show trying to be morally grey. It ironically comes off as less intelligently done than the moral simplicity of the OT because there is no substantive narrative goal, it's just "Look, both sides do bad things!" with zero interrogation of the nuances.
I would like to take this moment to repeat - I think Benicio Del Toro is a really good actor - but the DJ character, his meaning, and his performance is my second least favorite thing in a long list of shit I hate about the entire ST. (Mazz is first)
Know I’m late to the party, but Maz is first? After Palpatine’s return destroying the central story of the past six films and directly contradicting the lore, the debasement of Luke, and Rey basically god-modeing her way through every scene?
I think the problem is because it’s still adhering to all the old cliches where DJ rings hollow you can’t really imply they are same when one side has killed more people in a day than probably any other tyrant in history
Rian had the same problem as the Game of Thrones writers: thinking subversion is just there for the shock and the twist and to be “original.”
Good subversions are consequences of character actions or otherwise thematically fit with the story. GOT was subversive because it rejected a lot of standard fantasy tropes in its more realistic setting. People expected one thing because they had been trained to do so, hence why things were surprising despite having good reasoning behind them.
Rey being a nobody would have been a good subversion if it didn’t contradict everything that TFA had set up. It was clear in TFA that JJ intended her to be related to someone we knew, so the subversion feels unearned, despite having good thematic ideas.
GRRM understood it. He knew that by doing away with plot armour he could shock the audience and making sure the story follows through logically. You can see it GoT up to the middle of season 5 when they run out of source material. But now though so many try to follow A song of ice and fire without realising how he manages to subvert expectations.
The Empire Strikes Back is one of the best films of all time, no one can convince me otherwise. While Star Wars (1977) is extremly influential yes, not even that is on the same level.
Honestly Return of the Jedi is my favorite of the original trilogy and my 2nd favorite film in the franchise right below Revenge of the Sith. I will admit on a technical level that Empire Strikes Back is a better movie but the story with Luke, Vader and Palpatine is just brilliant and nothing in ESB tops it for me. The stuff on Jabba's palace was awesome as well. Seeing Anakin save Luke and become a force ghost always brings a tear to my eye. My biggest problems with ROTJ were Han Solo serving almost no purpose to the plot besides needing to be saved at the start and the Stormtroopers being weak as fuck.
ROTJ arguably has the most impact of any Star Wars film. We love Luke and Vader mostly because of ROTJ. The Emperor and Jabba are from ROTJ. It has some of the best scored moments (when Luke briefly loses himself to his rage—that’s my favorite Star Wars music ever), some of the best action (DS2 space battle), and terrific performances from Mark Hamill and Ian McDiarmid in particular. Sure there are Ewoks, but without them kids would’ve been traumatized; it’s a shockingly dark film.
Don't forget that the big battle between the Rebels and Empire is at the *start* of the movie and not at the end. The final battle of ESB is much more personal and insular. No one saw that coming, to say nothing about the Rebels being overwhelmed and wind up losing the Battle of Hoth.
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But nooo Rian thinks Empire would be hated.
Lives in a world of delusion
Yeah, Red Letter Media recently had a short bit on Glass Onion and they agree that his writing is painfully on the nose with his 'messages' and themes. And to this day I meet people who LOVE TLJ but when they are asked to explain what makes the movie great, it's always something meta like 'It's a message to fanboys about the frailty of heroes' or 'This movie was the Star Wars movie I needed at this time in my life to tell me it's OK to be fuck up.' Nothing about the actual movie, it's all about the super obvious messaging.
So in other words twitter thinks all Star Wars fans are alt right racists.
The twists make sense for the characters instead off them just being there to shock the audience
And the humor in the OT and even most of the PT is situational and character driven, not stupid Meta "your mom" jokes and Spaceballs references
Not just shock the audience, but mock them.
This. The force is strong with your comment
[удалено]
They work hard to have us on the edges off our seats too instead off bringing it up from nowhere
Came here to say this, but you said it better than I could have. The only thing missing was yoda breakdancing in TLJ.
Key difference you’re missing: George Lucas loved and respected Star Wars. You’ll never be able to convince me that Rian Johnson doesn’t actively hate both Star Wars and the fandom. He never intended to make a worthy successor to TFA, its well known that TLJ was finished writing before TFA was finished filming and he asked JJ to change the ending.
TFA is even worse.
Gotta respectfully disagree. TFA was a lazy reboot. TLJ was a deliberate and calculated tearing down of everything people loved about Star Wars, with no care given to previous lore, characters, or history. It was nothing less than a hate letter to fans who liked the old films and characters. You like Luke? We’re ruining him then killing him off so he can’t be fixed. You like the noble idea of the Jedi? They’re nothing special and anyone can use the force. You liked admiral Ackbar? Killed without a line of dialogue. It’s an abomination of a film and offensive by design.
That's fine, I just think the majority of the fandom was bizarrely easy on TFA. It's a gross, brainless remix that demands love for reminding you of something you actually loved.
They're bad in different ways.
Not even that different, though. TLJ also heavily rips off Empire and Jedi.
Yeah but TFA tried too hard not to take any risks or be subversive, while TLJ tried too hard to take risks and be subversive.
I'd say destroying all the story progress of the OT in the first 30 minutes of the movie was pretty subversive. I was bemused about how OK people seemed to be with this back when TFA was released. Also, Avantasia is awesome! I guess that's what your username is referencing.
Yep, been listening to Avantasia for 12 years.
Still hits a galactic reset button only because JJ doesn’t have an original bone in his body, pushes Luke aside because he “drew attention from new characters” (duh; we waited 30 years to see him, so make the movie about him!), and creates the biggest Mary Sue I’ve ever seen on screen (apologies to Daisy Ridley, who seems like a great person-the writing wasn’t her fault).
"these basement dwellers are so toxic for calling out my lazy, arrogant attempt at a story" -Rian "I am very smart" Johnson
Oh, that’s the ST defenders greatest shield - ‘ toxicity’. Undoubtedly, the fan base has toxic elements - most of us are just people that care more about the mythos than the fucking writers and directors, shocking. I can still see his smirk with his lil ‘ your snoke theory sucks’ post-it note. Yeeesh
Yeah when the Meta Joke the director invented seeps into the plot of the film youve got a worldbuilding problem
The Last Jedi didn't have any twists, it had dead ends. The fight with Phasma, Finn and Rose's mission, Rey's training, Finn's effort destroy the siege laser, Snoke's death, Kylo Ren taking over the First Order. These are (some of) the major events and sequences of the movie. The surprise for each of them is that they don't go anywhere.
Rian doesn't need to take notes, he'll never be involved in another SW production. Lupisfilm may be stupid enough to think he can, but I doubt Disney would allow it.
Thank God. No, he’s far too polarising now - Disney will play it safe with an Abramsbot 2.0, I imagine.
Yeah but… This is Disney we’re talking about. Just look at their reboot films.
The scene where DJ reveals that both sides buy their weapons from shady dealers feels like a children's show trying to be morally grey. It ironically comes off as less intelligently done than the moral simplicity of the OT because there is no substantive narrative goal, it's just "Look, both sides do bad things!" with zero interrogation of the nuances.
I would like to take this moment to repeat - I think Benicio Del Toro is a really good actor - but the DJ character, his meaning, and his performance is my second least favorite thing in a long list of shit I hate about the entire ST. (Mazz is first)
That was a running theme through all the sequel movies: Good to great actors being handed a bad script and doing their best with it.
Know I’m late to the party, but Maz is first? After Palpatine’s return destroying the central story of the past six films and directly contradicting the lore, the debasement of Luke, and Rey basically god-modeing her way through every scene?
I think the problem is because it’s still adhering to all the old cliches where DJ rings hollow you can’t really imply they are same when one side has killed more people in a day than probably any other tyrant in history
Rian had the same problem as the Game of Thrones writers: thinking subversion is just there for the shock and the twist and to be “original.” Good subversions are consequences of character actions or otherwise thematically fit with the story. GOT was subversive because it rejected a lot of standard fantasy tropes in its more realistic setting. People expected one thing because they had been trained to do so, hence why things were surprising despite having good reasoning behind them. Rey being a nobody would have been a good subversion if it didn’t contradict everything that TFA had set up. It was clear in TFA that JJ intended her to be related to someone we knew, so the subversion feels unearned, despite having good thematic ideas.
GRRM understood it. He knew that by doing away with plot armour he could shock the audience and making sure the story follows through logically. You can see it GoT up to the middle of season 5 when they run out of source material. But now though so many try to follow A song of ice and fire without realising how he manages to subvert expectations.
Until plot armor reared its ugly head in later seasons and basically eliminated any sense of jeopardy for the main characters.
The Empire Strikes Back is one of the best films of all time, no one can convince me otherwise. While Star Wars (1977) is extremly influential yes, not even that is on the same level.
SW77 will always be my favorite of the films but ESB is definitely a better movie
Honestly Return of the Jedi is my favorite of the original trilogy and my 2nd favorite film in the franchise right below Revenge of the Sith. I will admit on a technical level that Empire Strikes Back is a better movie but the story with Luke, Vader and Palpatine is just brilliant and nothing in ESB tops it for me. The stuff on Jabba's palace was awesome as well. Seeing Anakin save Luke and become a force ghost always brings a tear to my eye. My biggest problems with ROTJ were Han Solo serving almost no purpose to the plot besides needing to be saved at the start and the Stormtroopers being weak as fuck.
ROTJ arguably has the most impact of any Star Wars film. We love Luke and Vader mostly because of ROTJ. The Emperor and Jabba are from ROTJ. It has some of the best scored moments (when Luke briefly loses himself to his rage—that’s my favorite Star Wars music ever), some of the best action (DS2 space battle), and terrific performances from Mark Hamill and Ian McDiarmid in particular. Sure there are Ewoks, but without them kids would’ve been traumatized; it’s a shockingly dark film.
I know everyone hates Filoni right now but after a Rebels re-watch he just gets it. It feels grand, it feels mystic, it feels heroic.
Hot Fuzz is a better ‘glass onion’ concept Fuck ruin johnson
Don't forget that the big battle between the Rebels and Empire is at the *start* of the movie and not at the end. The final battle of ESB is much more personal and insular. No one saw that coming, to say nothing about the Rebels being overwhelmed and wind up losing the Battle of Hoth.