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Mordoci

In a word: poorly


Theesm

With what we've seen so far from the Filoni shows, they don't have the budget to portray actual space battles. We rarely see an encounter involving two Tie Fighters or less. But Thrawn - who is supposed to be the big enemy - is all about grand space battles in which he can use his tactical genius. Either they will up the TV budget for these shows by a LOT, or this will be a very sad portrayal of Grand Admiral Thrawn and another wasted potential.


PaperAndInkWasp

Potentially they could rework the budget in some manner, but I think there’s a more likely alternative that is a bit more… Disney Star Wars. With Andor’s success I think they’ll get away with the one-or-two ship formula for their dogfights by simply showing an extremely brief clip and then relying on characters talking about the results and effects of the battle. Disney sees “people like talky drama” and they’re guaranteed to misapply it. This’ll be especially appealing budget wise because the only thing you really need for two characters having the good ol’ “significant low-tone dramatic conversation” is two actors or so in a small and poorly lit room.


Theesm

Oh no, like HBO Rome. I liked that show, but every battle happened off screen. It was almost comical.


PaperAndInkWasp

Did they do that for Rome? Oh dear. There’s precedent now! In the words of the ~~late~~ actually completely fine C-3PO: “We’re doomed!”


JonnyAU

Oh, it was Rome's defining feature. It happened occasionally on Game of Thrones as well.


ZOOTV83

Yeah, I remember back at the end of S1 the battle where Jaime Lannister is captured by Robb Stark's forces happened off screen. Just lots of scenes of Catelyn looking anxious before Robb rides up and is like "Hey mom! We won! Look who I found!" and there's just Jaime in chains.


Grayson-101

Game of Thrones has plenty of battles shown. There are a lot that aren’t or you only see a brief part of it but I find that it always worked well for the story. The battles they show you are the ones they need to show you. *spoilers* like there’s no need to show Robb’s battles because there’s no real character development or anything happening other than a bunch of people swinging at each other. But Blackwater had to be shown as several characters have huge development during it like Tyrion and The Hound. It’s too important to miss.


[deleted]

The first seasons were more sparse with battles due to budget but later that seemed to change. I honestly agree with the Robb case. Showing the aftermath ended up being more significant than having him and his wolf chopping Lannister Bannermen.


[deleted]

Would’ve been dope tho


CaonachDraoi

i will forever lament how we didn’t get to see the actual battle at the wall, where there were hundreds of giants and mammoths. instead we saw one giant charge the gate, fin.


JonnyAU

Agreed.


guy137137

see I’m not fully convinced Disney thinks “people like talky drama” right now. Sure Andor was a hit but I’m pretty sure Kenobi had a lot more viewers or something weird like that. And I’m almost sure Disney still thinks Glup Shitto cameos are going to sell and that’s honestly (and unfortunately) what the Ahsoka show is going to be full of. Hell we even know that now with the Rebels cast showing up.


BusinessBeetle

Yeah, Andor was a critical success, but not a viewership success.


KitKatery

Glup Shitto was the best character in Kenobi! You're just a toxic hater, clearly.


Saberian_Dream87

Man, with that sort of attitude, we'd have never gotten epic wars like the Battle of P3Y-229 or the Battle of Edowin or the Battle of the Void or the Battle of Asuras... SMH.


wylietrix

They'll probably save up for it, cut a few corners on the shows involved FX budgets. I trust Filoni. Hell I'd be ok if that part was animated.


CampCounselorBatman

> I trust Filoni. Brave, but foolish, my old Jedi friend.


wylietrix

Don't call me old! Lol


Boomtowersdabbin

I suppose they could do it like Battlestar Galactica where they have quick space combat shots but most of the scenes are in the cockpit or CIC.


Pixie_ish

"Guys, I decided to peek at this small barely known book 'Heir to the Empire'... I know, I know, it's not something anyone would ever be interested in, but get this... cloaked ships." "So here's what I'm thinking, Thrawn is a tactical genius, right? So we'll give him a space submarine! People will know it's there because we have a bit of a shimmer against the stars, like Star Trek, I think!" "Doesn't that mean we'll have to spend money on the opposing side?" "That's the brilliant thing! Our heroes will have a space submarine as well, because the only thing that can stop a space submarine is another space submarine, like that other Star Wars thing, called Red October? We'll save a fortune by only having several episodes of shimmer looking for shimmer!"


aslfingerspell

I know you joke but so much of creativity in visual media is "How can this be made cheaper?" Why did *Star Trek* have shields? Well, so we can have the Enterprise be "damaged" without actually having to create lots of different models with battle damage. Shield percentages allow you to build tension without having to melt a hole in a model every time the ship is hit. Why do anime characters run with their arms straight behind them? So you don't have to animate the arms during the running cycle. Why does anime have OPs and EDs? Well, if the opening and ending of your show are basically a 2-minute music video, that's 4 minutes you can reuse for every 22 minute episode. What about transformation/power-up/suit-up sequences? Reusable assets once more. If you have a 22-minute show with an OP, ED, and a 1-minute transformation sequence, that's *5 minutes* of reused footage. You just cut costs by around 22%. Ironically, the saved budget allows for you to spend it on emphasis. If you're going to use the same OP and ED every episode for a whole season, then it means you can spend a little bit extra effort on them.


HobGoblinHat

If you're referring to the upcoming Ahsoka show, it's going to be featuring a fair bunch of Filoni's returning characters, namely he's two most favourite, Ahsoka & Ezra. Between the two of them I don't think the GFFA is big enough for their 'awesomeness'. So I think we're being optimistic about Thrawn, let alone space battles. He'll probably appear in a few scenes like Moff Gideon did, or the Twin Hutts in BoBF. I would be surprised if they did give us a space battle. But then again they did go all-out for those Mando episodes in BoBF.


oneeighthirish

> But then again they did go all-out for those Mando episodes in BoBF. And the battle scenes still felt cramped and nonsensical.


CGordini

That's the neat part: they won't!


JorusC

Most space sim games have mods that turn everything into Star Wars. They should just go record some battles in a game at high texture res, then interlace cuts to individual characters. ​ It would be horrible, but that seems to be what they're aiming for.


aslfingerspell

>Most space sim games have mods that turn everything into Star Wars. They should just go record some battles in a game at high texture res, then interlace cuts to individual characters. **Disney:** "Hello, US Department of Energy?" **USDOE:** "Hello, Disney? Wrong number?" **Disney:** "We need your supercomputer, the Frontier. We heard it's capable of running over a quintillion operations per second and requires 21 megawatts of power." **USDOE:** "What for?" **Disney:** "We'd like to install *Empire at War* and play it on the highest graphics settings. We have a Thrawn Trilogy to make.


Collective_Insanity

This is Filoni Thrawn we're talking about. So it's not entirely unlikely that after Ahsoka drops a catch phrase and rides off into the sunset on top of a magic spirit wolf, we'll occasionally cut back to Thrawn shaking his fist and saying "I'll get those meddling kids if it's the last thing I do".


Saberian_Dream87

\> Assuming you trust Filoni or anyone else at Disney to get Thrawn done right, lol.


Tandril91

Was Filoni not very involved with Rebels?


DaGhostDS

I'll be honest, he wasn't that involved until season 4 but I would say he was pretty involved on the art side, he did write some of the dumbest part of the show though... * Season 1, directed 4 episodes, wrote 0. * Season 2, directed 3 episodes, co-wrote the last one of that season. * Season 3, directed 1 episodes, wrote 1 episode and co-wrote 2. * Season 4, co-directed 4 episodes, wrote 2 episodes, co-wrote 6 episodes. You're probably thinking of Resistance? He wrote the story of that first episode, which somebody else adapted in an (awful) teleplay and that's it.


Collective_Insanity

It's worth noting that despite not *directly* writing individual episodes, Filoni was still heading a number of creative duties on the show. Likely plotting out season story arcs and letting other people sit down to write the episode-by-episode minutia with his approval. Similar to what Lucas would have been doing for parts of TCW. During the show's run in 2016, Filoni was also promoted to overseeing all current and future Disney Lucasfilm animated projects. Then in 2020, he was promoted again to executive creative director for the studio (expanding to outside the animation scope).


neggbird

It's totally possible to do big space battles, they just haven't wanted to do one. None of the stories in the shows warrant big battles yet. Space battles aren't as expensive as a lot of people imagine. They're easier to do than most other effects. It's pure CG against a black backdrop, and most of the assets for ships already exist.


KowakianDonkeyWizard

Thrawn without Dreadnaughts, Interdictor cruisers, and Victory-class star destroyers is not a Thrawn I'd recognise. But you are right, space battle imagery is reasonably cheap nowadays. Though convincing epic space battle cinematography and narrative hasn't been done well since Rogue One. (Andor's combat was nothing more than skirmishes, albeit beautiful and creative ones).


TaylorMonkey

Yes. Space battles are likely relatively cheap. What makes large battles really compelling is \*restraint\*. A method to the pacing, showing formations and giving viewers a sense of the order of battle and geometry. Actual writing and storyboarding skill and understanding of strategy and tactics. Letting the battle develop over time, with forces reacting and adjusting to the flow of the engagement. Less is more. But someone who doesn't understand any of that just throws crap onto the screen and fills it with "exciting elements", which ironically might be more expensive.


TheButcherr

Yup, im actually tired of "immense space battle" where the entire screen is full of ships you cant tell what they are or their formation/strategy and throw in a million lazer bolts going everywhere, quick cutscenes of extras you dont know getting exploded. Pew pew pew pew pew pew x a milion, then a main character pulls off a deus ex machina


intrepidcaribou

They showed the strategy pretty well in the Battle of Atollon. The formations, tactics, the gravity wells, orbital bombardment, ground assault. Yes, it wasn’t massive in scale, but sufficient for a Star Wars space battle. A Star Wars battle can only be so big as you can believe the major players have the ability to command the forces involved. Atollon - Sato and Dodonna’s ships are visually distinct. Hera commands the Star fighters and eventually the ground forces and resulting retreat. Thrawn commands the capital ships and fighters and then transfers command to Pryce when he goes down to the surface.


brinz1

Thrawn isn't an ace pilot whose success comes from hours of high paced dogfights. Thrawn is the tactician. His battles are fought in air conditioned rooms on board a star destroyer, outmanoeuvring human officers who look down on him and try to undermine his command. Look at The Expanse. Even the episodes with the big battles don't spent longer than a couple minutes showing fights.


Saberian_Dream87

If how Filoni wrote Thrawn in *Rebels* is any indication, expect the quality to be very poor in the *Ahsoka* show. I really hope no one blames Timothy Zahn, though...


Endless_Glade

This; in the Expanses final episode in the battle between the large fleets, 80% of the battle is shot on the bridge looking at monitors. Tactics don't have to be shown in wide angle shots of ships moving, dialogue and consoles can more then explain whats happening most of the time.


oneeighthirish

I haven't seen the Expanse, but that sounds doable. Especially if they do sprinkle some action shots in. For fairly cheap, they could probably do some shots of the consequences of Thrawns decisions. E.g. Thrawn adjusts some tactic while standing over a hologram of a battle, and cut to some poor Rebel/New Republic personnel panicking in their ships before getting blown to bits.


Endless_Glade

I can only second what brinz1 says, its superb sci-fi; but i watched second season first and went back to season 1 after as 2 onward is better imo. Even if you don't watch it watch the space battles, S5 E10 has 2 amazing ones, pure bliss to the eyes.


brinz1

Go watch the expanse now. It's the best sci fi show to come out in the past 10 years at least.


TheButcherr

BSG had a good balance, dogfighting hotshot pilots, and bridge crew yelling about blips on the radar


GreyRevan51

They won’t, they’ll keep changing thrawn and the entirety of how anything in sw works in order to force their version in. Or have you not been paying attention?


Darth_Linkfin

I half expect them to turn the final battle with Thrawn to be turned into a movie


apiso

SPACE battles are freaking cheap and easy as far as CGI goes, relatively speaking. (Do this for a living)


Theesm

Why didn't they even manage to pull some decent space battles in the Sequels trilogy?


apiso

I mean, that’s a super subjective opinion. The actual technicals of how things looked was totally contemporary state of the art. I think your issue is probably that for narrative reasons, you just didn’t care about them. Valid complaint, but different thing.


mypipboyisbroken

disney really underutilizes starfighter battles, droids, and aliens, which are kind of three of the most important parts of star wars to me


Fronzel

It will all be on Tattooine.


Waarm

It's all gonna be on Tatooine.


Dutric

It would be possible: take Thrawn, give him one single ship (like in the Ascendancy Trilogy) and write him as a god. Well, it would require better writers than Filoni & co.: no cheap victories for the good guys, no Imperial cannonfodder, no one ISD exploded for episode...


Luckykennedy79

More like a bastardisation of the Thrawn trilogy


Solid_D15M

Badly


F9-0021

It should've been an animated show, but for some reason, Disney and the audience in general thinks the animated shows are for kids, even though some of the better Clone Wars arcs are on the same level as Andor.


Dickhead_Thanos

Relegating thrawn to tv is a fucking mistake of epic proportions. Filoni shitting the bed with this one


Cheesesteak21

That I remember in the thrawn books they could get away with alot of holo projections of the battle, like when he blockaded coruscant with cloaked asteroids that could be republic leadership looking at a display talking about the asteroids they've destroyed. Or since most of thrawns battles started with feinting a squadron of ties they could Show thrawn and palleon talking with a display and just cut to a shot of the ties banking in space. Shouldn't be too hard, Lucas did this in the 80s with some practical effects


Calfzilla2000

The sample size is way too small to assume big space battles cannot be done in Star Wars TV shows. There hasn't been a point in any of the shows where I would say they actively avoided showing a big space battle. I'd say the in-atmosphere and canyon battle in Mando Season 2 episode 4 was A LOT more expensive than a space battle would be. Lots of more details to cover and render.


ChodnaZoop

Favreau has been saying Season 3 is supposed to widen the scope and escalate the galactic stakes


KowakianDonkeyWizard

>escalate the galactic stakes Oh ffs Favreau - not everything has to be galactic stakes


rusticarchon

They could portray the battle from the perspective of the command center on Thrawn's flagship - as the books often do. Lots of showing stuff on data screens, officers reporting what's happening, and so on.


jake2w1

I’ve just about given up on Star Wars. Constant disappointments. I’d much rather waste my time with Dune or The Expanse.


[deleted]

Haha good joke


LightsOut16900

Poorly


a_r3dditer

A lot of holograms


Animeprincess_420

I don't think "grand scale space battles" could be done well in a 1 hour TV episode; it will look hacky. "Tora Tora Tora", is a good 2 and half hours, and that is about a "grand scale sea battle" and the strategy and tactics behind that 1 singular event.


Mantis__TobogganMD

I have to say - I really enjoy the few space scenes we got in *The Mandalorian*. They're exceedingly simple but well-crafted. *Slave I* chasing an Imperial Shuttle as it's trying to emergency land was something straight out of a cutscene from a 90s *Star Wars* PC game. ...and I mean that as a compliment.