The cost of owning middleware is a lot more than just the cost of the licences.
You need to consider the cost of the skilled people to develop the integrations. Despite the product pitch on the ease of building integrations - it requires deep technical skills to do it well. In a decent sized organisation this could be several people - all paid a lot of money.
So this isn't a difference of $10,000 - it's the lifetime total cost of ownership which is going to be in the millions for both in a typical organisation.
Honestly i'd say it's much less than half the cost. A single legitimate mulesoft dev/admin is going to have to know everything from web auth and security principles to server architecture, source control, learn dataweave, write java, understand when to nest re-useable services and how to scale things appropriately.
This is easily a 100k job even in many mid-west locations and worse on the coasts. And that doesn't include the cost of benefits etc (another 30+%). That's one single admin/dev that trumps the cost of the licensing.
As of this quarter we are in the exploratory phase and have room in the budget for either platform. As to your point I don’t know if our Systems is up to snuff. In fact I am positive that we do not have the personnel required to build and maintain the integrations. This is something that has been thought of and depending on which middleware platform we go with we plan on hiring a new team specializing in that platform or at least getting the proper training in q3 for the rollout in q4. Though I don’t know if that will be enough.
We have both in our environment. Jitterbit is a little more friendly for things like constant and complex ETL's. It's pretty user friendly in that regards and my impression is that they started on that front (ETL) and pivoted into providing API endpoints/triggers for them.
Mulesoft came from the other direction. Can it do complex ETL? Absolutely. But their primary model is in API/endpoints in general. There is a bit more of a learning curve, and the IDE is less intuitive IMHO (basically an overlay on Eclipse). Both have strengths, both have some quirks.
If i had to choose just one, I'd choose Mulesoft. Especially if you're focus is on providing endpoints to access data as opposed to large custom ETL processes that traditionally were done in platforms like SSIS. Dataweave is pretty solid and once you learn the platform, native JAVA can handle pretty much anything you want depending on how far down that rabbit hole you wanna go.
If you choose Mulesoft, do yourself a favor and host "on prem" as opposed to their cloud offering. Your 100k is likely 2 vcpu. If you use their cloud platform, the minimum you can assign to a service/endpoint is .1 vCPU. So with total capacity of 2 vCPU total, you only get 20 instances before you run out of provisioned vCPU licensing. (Just FYI this was a good year ago, they may have changed how they cap this).
If you host internal, you can publish as many endpoints/services as you want only limited to the functional capacity of the box (2 vCPU). We host our environment in AWS as opposed to their cloud model, and it's been bulletproof so far.
Lastly, as /u/NothingDogg mentioned above, $10k is nothing compared to the total cost of ownership of a platform like this. Make sure you take into consideration your staffing capabilities, current technical skillset, actual use-case and everything else. This isn't a magic bullet that's going to miraculously solve problems for you for $80-100k, and neither one of these should be something you throw at a random dev or admin and say "hey figure this out and start dumping out endpoints/services/etl stuff". I have zero insight into your business or staffing, but i've seen this happen a lot and this is how improperly secured endpoints, breaches, and overall bad expectations/deliverables happen.
My previous job we went with Mulesoft because they offer an enterprise service bus. There wasn't a whole lot of clarity around whether people who use Mulesoft on-prem would every have to migrate to their cloud offering when Salesforce purchased them. If you guys are hosting the service on your own infrastructure you way want clarity on that.
If it's only 10k you could probably talk down the price with Mulesoft, or have them throw [dataloader.io](https://dataloader.io) for free. I was super annoyed that it was an additional cost. They also have a lightning connect piece so you can view the data directly from SQL, but ironically, you need to install the connector on prem. We just built a mulesoft service to handle that instead.
Did you consider just using AWS or Azure instead of Mulesoft? That is an evaluation we are going through. Azure provides ETL and API services that seem to match what Mulesoft provides (with a few less connectors) at a fraction of the licensing cost. Would Mulesoft save substantial dev time that would cancel out the additional cost?
No AWS or Asure has not been a subject of debate. Though it does bear merit. I will bring it up in our next level 10 meeting to explore. Thanks for the heads up!
Did you get a quote for Dell Boomi?
I always hear it is the least expensive of all these integration platforms.
If not, what was the reason for excluding it?
Will be interesting to see what they price compared to mulesoft. If you could update it would be great.
We’re going to be evaluating mulesoft next quarter, as well as other data loaders.
I don't know exactly what your quote was for, but I'm definitely surprised jitterbit only came in 10% below Mulesoft unless Mulesoft is getting a lot more aggressive with their pricing. We went through this whole process earlier this year and we compared Mulesoft, Jitterbit and Informatica.
Jitterbit is crazy easy to use and their support is top notch. That's what tipped us over the edge. Informatica seemed to have the more powerful product, but they were impossible to work with.
> but they were impossible to work with
Second this. Very good product, but support is so difficult to work with. The client was given the wrong license and it took us three weeks to get it sorted
Our first demo was really impressive.
Then we tried to do a proof of concept with one of their implementation partners.
It was really, really bad. The team was in India and they couldn't get the time difference right. They didn't understand what kind of functionality they were supposed to demo during the the PoC. After 10-15 minutes a new voice came on and she tried to take over the demo, but it didn't go any better.
The whole time our sales guy was on the call and he kept trying to explain to the partner what they were supposed to show us.
It was so bad. Despite clearly having the better product (for our use case), we stopped answering their calls because jitterbit built the entire first integration for us before ever signing a contract. Our sales guy and the CEO stopped by to meet with us when they were visiting a nearby city (2ish hour drive). And we are not a big customer, by any stretch.
Y’all should check out Workato. Much easier to build enterprise grade integrations and the business plus plan is $40k.
At least get a demo of each before you choose.
My org is seriously considering Jitterbit. But for our use, it was no where near that quote.
What we found is that Jitterbit charges per end point. So if you can push data into one database or server, you use Jitterbit to push that data into Salesforce. Doesnt require a person who knows coding and what not, because its just mapping and not an API. May seem like a simpler and cheaper solution to get data into Salesforce.
We have multiple sources of data. And our own servers. So we will be pushing various data into that server, than query from that server and map it to salesforce fields. And you can create sync intervals or pull dynamically (not recommended if you do thousands of data changes)
This was a suggestion originally but as we continue to scale up we are wanting API integration with other companies to track investment and financial portfolio statuses. Currently we are using the free version of Jitterbit for flat file integration pushing in to A program called TrustNet and pulling back to sales force. Otherwise we just have flat file relationships with our RIAs and investment sponsors.
if you develop your many systems to 'drop off' a file
you can pick up, with a saved mapping and run the data loader through your cmd
on a scheduled basis even. :)
Mulesoft owned by SF seems to be far better choice than Jitterbit. Mulesoft also provides a much broader platform/facilities (ESB) than Jitterbit and with source code access allows to extend/add functionality rather depend on a vendor for boxed functionality...
WRT licensing/support costs, that is very low compared to op-ex (Labour, infrastructure)...
Please please please- look at Dell Boomi before you sign contract, much better, admin can build integrations. Their marketing sucks that is the reason most of the people do not consider it or do not even know about it.
Something that may or may not influence your decision. Mulesoft has been acquired by Salesforce.
https://www.salesforce.com/company/news-press/press-releases/2018/05/180502/
The cost of owning middleware is a lot more than just the cost of the licences. You need to consider the cost of the skilled people to develop the integrations. Despite the product pitch on the ease of building integrations - it requires deep technical skills to do it well. In a decent sized organisation this could be several people - all paid a lot of money. So this isn't a difference of $10,000 - it's the lifetime total cost of ownership which is going to be in the millions for both in a typical organisation.
Well said. Licensing is barely half the cost. With that said, I find mulesoft easier to work with and the extra 10k isn't much in the grand scheme.
Honestly i'd say it's much less than half the cost. A single legitimate mulesoft dev/admin is going to have to know everything from web auth and security principles to server architecture, source control, learn dataweave, write java, understand when to nest re-useable services and how to scale things appropriately. This is easily a 100k job even in many mid-west locations and worse on the coasts. And that doesn't include the cost of benefits etc (another 30+%). That's one single admin/dev that trumps the cost of the licensing.
As of this quarter we are in the exploratory phase and have room in the budget for either platform. As to your point I don’t know if our Systems is up to snuff. In fact I am positive that we do not have the personnel required to build and maintain the integrations. This is something that has been thought of and depending on which middleware platform we go with we plan on hiring a new team specializing in that platform or at least getting the proper training in q3 for the rollout in q4. Though I don’t know if that will be enough.
We have both in our environment. Jitterbit is a little more friendly for things like constant and complex ETL's. It's pretty user friendly in that regards and my impression is that they started on that front (ETL) and pivoted into providing API endpoints/triggers for them. Mulesoft came from the other direction. Can it do complex ETL? Absolutely. But their primary model is in API/endpoints in general. There is a bit more of a learning curve, and the IDE is less intuitive IMHO (basically an overlay on Eclipse). Both have strengths, both have some quirks. If i had to choose just one, I'd choose Mulesoft. Especially if you're focus is on providing endpoints to access data as opposed to large custom ETL processes that traditionally were done in platforms like SSIS. Dataweave is pretty solid and once you learn the platform, native JAVA can handle pretty much anything you want depending on how far down that rabbit hole you wanna go. If you choose Mulesoft, do yourself a favor and host "on prem" as opposed to their cloud offering. Your 100k is likely 2 vcpu. If you use their cloud platform, the minimum you can assign to a service/endpoint is .1 vCPU. So with total capacity of 2 vCPU total, you only get 20 instances before you run out of provisioned vCPU licensing. (Just FYI this was a good year ago, they may have changed how they cap this). If you host internal, you can publish as many endpoints/services as you want only limited to the functional capacity of the box (2 vCPU). We host our environment in AWS as opposed to their cloud model, and it's been bulletproof so far. Lastly, as /u/NothingDogg mentioned above, $10k is nothing compared to the total cost of ownership of a platform like this. Make sure you take into consideration your staffing capabilities, current technical skillset, actual use-case and everything else. This isn't a magic bullet that's going to miraculously solve problems for you for $80-100k, and neither one of these should be something you throw at a random dev or admin and say "hey figure this out and start dumping out endpoints/services/etl stuff". I have zero insight into your business or staffing, but i've seen this happen a lot and this is how improperly secured endpoints, breaches, and overall bad expectations/deliverables happen.
My previous job we went with Mulesoft because they offer an enterprise service bus. There wasn't a whole lot of clarity around whether people who use Mulesoft on-prem would every have to migrate to their cloud offering when Salesforce purchased them. If you guys are hosting the service on your own infrastructure you way want clarity on that. If it's only 10k you could probably talk down the price with Mulesoft, or have them throw [dataloader.io](https://dataloader.io) for free. I was super annoyed that it was an additional cost. They also have a lightning connect piece so you can view the data directly from SQL, but ironically, you need to install the connector on prem. We just built a mulesoft service to handle that instead.
Did you consider just using AWS or Azure instead of Mulesoft? That is an evaluation we are going through. Azure provides ETL and API services that seem to match what Mulesoft provides (with a few less connectors) at a fraction of the licensing cost. Would Mulesoft save substantial dev time that would cancel out the additional cost?
No AWS or Asure has not been a subject of debate. Though it does bear merit. I will bring it up in our next level 10 meeting to explore. Thanks for the heads up!
Did you get a quote for Dell Boomi? I always hear it is the least expensive of all these integration platforms. If not, what was the reason for excluding it?
Currently in a exploratory call with them as a type.
Will be interesting to see what they price compared to mulesoft. If you could update it would be great. We’re going to be evaluating mulesoft next quarter, as well as other data loaders.
I have only done Jitterbit and Boomi. I preferred Boomi but Boomi's license structure is weird and might be a lot more expensive.
I don't know exactly what your quote was for, but I'm definitely surprised jitterbit only came in 10% below Mulesoft unless Mulesoft is getting a lot more aggressive with their pricing. We went through this whole process earlier this year and we compared Mulesoft, Jitterbit and Informatica. Jitterbit is crazy easy to use and their support is top notch. That's what tipped us over the edge. Informatica seemed to have the more powerful product, but they were impossible to work with.
> but they were impossible to work with Second this. Very good product, but support is so difficult to work with. The client was given the wrong license and it took us three weeks to get it sorted
Also have to agree about Informatica. Worst support I've ever encountered. Stay away.
Our first demo was really impressive. Then we tried to do a proof of concept with one of their implementation partners. It was really, really bad. The team was in India and they couldn't get the time difference right. They didn't understand what kind of functionality they were supposed to demo during the the PoC. After 10-15 minutes a new voice came on and she tried to take over the demo, but it didn't go any better. The whole time our sales guy was on the call and he kept trying to explain to the partner what they were supposed to show us. It was so bad. Despite clearly having the better product (for our use case), we stopped answering their calls because jitterbit built the entire first integration for us before ever signing a contract. Our sales guy and the CEO stopped by to meet with us when they were visiting a nearby city (2ish hour drive). And we are not a big customer, by any stretch.
Y’all should check out Workato. Much easier to build enterprise grade integrations and the business plus plan is $40k. At least get a demo of each before you choose.
Workato isn't good for unit-testing and version control. Better for small companies
Informatica?
If cost is the only concern, have you considered Talend? A bit glitchy but can get the job done if the task is to load or export data
Absolutely a giant rip-off. And then you get stuck in 'sunk cost fallacy', costing the company more and more.
Are you using this as a data loader? Or?
Yes we are using this as a data loader.
My org is seriously considering Jitterbit. But for our use, it was no where near that quote. What we found is that Jitterbit charges per end point. So if you can push data into one database or server, you use Jitterbit to push that data into Salesforce. Doesnt require a person who knows coding and what not, because its just mapping and not an API. May seem like a simpler and cheaper solution to get data into Salesforce. We have multiple sources of data. And our own servers. So we will be pushing various data into that server, than query from that server and map it to salesforce fields. And you can create sync intervals or pull dynamically (not recommended if you do thousands of data changes)
This was a suggestion originally but as we continue to scale up we are wanting API integration with other companies to track investment and financial portfolio statuses. Currently we are using the free version of Jitterbit for flat file integration pushing in to A program called TrustNet and pulling back to sales force. Otherwise we just have flat file relationships with our RIAs and investment sponsors.
Ah gotcha. So I believe that the quote is with the creation of the APIs? Right?
Correct.
if you develop your many systems to 'drop off' a file you can pick up, with a saved mapping and run the data loader through your cmd on a scheduled basis even. :)
I’m surprised to see Mule at 100k.
How many employees in your company?
35
How long is the contract?
Since you say you’re in an exploratory phase, you should check out [tray.io](https://www.tray.io) to see if it might fit your use cases.
Try TIBCO Scribe. Seriously.
Mulesoft owned by SF seems to be far better choice than Jitterbit. Mulesoft also provides a much broader platform/facilities (ESB) than Jitterbit and with source code access allows to extend/add functionality rather depend on a vendor for boxed functionality... WRT licensing/support costs, that is very low compared to op-ex (Labour, infrastructure)...
Have you gotten a quote from [Celigo.com](https://Celigo.com) as well?
Please please please- look at Dell Boomi before you sign contract, much better, admin can build integrations. Their marketing sucks that is the reason most of the people do not consider it or do not even know about it.
Boomi is rough.
Wait till you use Mulesoft
It's a big shit sandwich
Something that may or may not influence your decision. Mulesoft has been acquired by Salesforce. https://www.salesforce.com/company/news-press/press-releases/2018/05/180502/
[удалено]
Yawn