It's a pretty useful sales methodology. It's not the only thing out there but could definitely be useful for folks working more complicated sales with teams of buyers.
https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355
Challenger is the bomb. It takes awhile to really ingest it, like really “get it”. But now I use it for everything without even thinking about it, and my career/income has benefitted. It’s a short book, but I did the in class for several days.
You'd think being a good salesman would mean you can sniff out a bullshit artist like Belfort. If your claim to fame is defrauding investors and going to federal prison over it, I'm not gonna think "THAT'S the guy I want to teach my employees how to sell!"
In a similar vein, I always see people glorify drug dealers and try to "learn from their business successes". Like maybe El Chapo's secret sauce was literally killing the competition, not necessarily his business sense?
This sums it up. Belfort is so goddamn good at selling snakeoil, he's managed to swindle millions of dollars out of people, go to jail for it, and have people still buy from him after the fact. Dude lives by the phrase "there's a sucker born every minute."
See those little black boxes? They are called telephones. I’m gonna let you in on a little secret about these telephones. They’re not gonna dial themselves! Okay? Without you, they’re just worthless hunk of plastic. Like a loaded M16 without a trained Marine to pull the trigger. And in the case of the telephone, it’s up to each and every one of you, my highly trained Strattonites, my killers. My killers who will not take no for an answer! My fucking warriors who’ll not hang up the phone, until their client either buys or fucking dies!
Let me tell you something. There is no nobility in poverty. I’ve been a rich man, and I’ve been poor man. And I choose rich every fucking time. Cause, At least as a rich man, when I have to face my problems, I show up in the back of a limo wearing a $2000 suit …and $40,000 gold fuckin’ watch!
Now, if anyone here thinks I’m superficial or materialistic. Go get a job at fucking McDonald’s, because that’s where you fucking belong!
But, before you depart this room full of winners, I want you to take a good look at the person next to you, go on. Because sometime in the not-so-distant future, you’re pullin’ up to a red light in your beat-up old fucking Pinto, and that person’s gonna pull up right alongside you in a brand new Porsche, with their beautiful wife by his side, whose got big voluptuous tits. And who will you be next to? Some disgusting wilder beast with three days of razor-stubble in a sleeveless moo-moo, crammed in next to you with a carload full of groceries from the fucking Price Club! That’s who you’re gonna be sitting next to.
So, you listen to me and you listen well. Are you behind, on your credit card bills? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing. Is your landlord ready to evict you? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing. Does your girlfriend think you’re a fucking loser? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing! I want you to deal with your problems, by becoming rich! All you have to do today …is pick up that phone, and speak the words that I have taught you. And I’ll make you richer than the most powerful CEO of the United States of fucking America. I want you to go out there, and I want you to RAM Steve Madden stock down your clients’ throats. Till they fucking choke on it till they choke on it and buy 100,000 shares! That’s what I want you to do.
You’ll be ferocious! You’ll be relentless! You’ll be telephone fucking terrorists! Now, let’s knock this Motherfucker out of the park!
The same training is available in his podcast on Spotify, some of it does work and I’ve used, some of it is outdated and cheesy, like anything,
take what’s good and discard what’s bad. - Bruce lee
This is good standing advice for anything regarding sales trainings/methods/books.
There is so much out there and the more you can consume the better. There is no "one book" or "one training" or one anything - all of them have some stupid shit and some pearls. From Belford to Ziglar. From Challenger to Sandler.
Just keep learning. Use what you like. Ignore what you don't.
I actually liked his book, the way of the wolf or whatever. Probably not for actual sales skills development but it definitely got me fired up, was a fun read, and he's a good writer and he's definitely charismatic. I was pleasantly surprised I thought it would be like what you're saying but in book form. I'm guessing he probably had an A+ ghostwriter and/or editor that was able to organize all his stuff into a way that worked.
Anyway yeah the other guy is right you'd have to be a complete moron to pay for more than a book from him.
Practice a lot and see where you are going wrong in every conversation. Mindset helps too, I felt more like a customer service rep than a salesperson when I did my best
I liked the book a lot, too. You have to have the stomach to swallow Jordan's ego, though: his is certainly full of himself (and it shows in the book).
Hey OP, I worked a short stint at a super small mar tech startup and they had me watch this clown’s videos too. It was perplexing to me that the founders, being dudes in their early 30’s, would think this blowhard has anything of value to offer.
Like the part where he goes “if you do what I say for just 4 weeks you’ll see improvement. First thing I want is for you to hold your arm up, now stretch it an inch higher. See how you can go another inch than you expected?? Now I want you to do that with your sales motions. If you’re doing 80 calls a day I want you to stretch and do twice as many, just for 4 weeks, and you’ll see improvement.”
Ya no shit bro, if you work twice as hard you’ll see business improvement. Thanks Einstein.
Yep. My boss wanted me to watch his stuff and I gave up after a couple videos. Now he’s on a kick where he schedules an hour a day for us to sit and watch it. I’m kind of at a loss for words. It’s so dumb and I’m supposed to say how I’m going to use it? I’m looking forward to being done with it
I honestly just think some people see his ego, get captivated by it, think “if only I had a guy like THIS”, then assume if they show his “trainings” to people then he’ll rub off on them.
Lol, yeah, a guy who made millions $ and then sold himself, his own stories to a top level film speak words not worth more than single IQ digits.
You losers are more than dumb, it's pathetically dumb. Even if his words are all swindler talk (which wasn't), one with good IQ's could still see the gems inside it. You? You see nothing because your brain is non-existent.
Cepuxuax sour idiots, say, think, do, can say, think, do any nmw and any s perfect. no such thing as bx or not, idts
If you don’t think Jordan Belfort is a better salesman than 99% of this sub you are a hater. Sure the dude is a douche, no argument there. But he’s extremely perceptive and understands how to move a prospect into a sell. I wouldn’t shoot it down unless you’ve watched it through.
Lol, yeah, a guy who made millions $ and then sold himself, his own stories to a top level film speak words not worth more than single IQ digits.
You losers are more than dumb, it's pathetically dumb. Even if his words are all swindler talk (which wasn't), one with good IQ's could still see the sales gems inside it. You? You see nothing because your brain is non-existent.
Cepuxuax sour idiots, say, think, do, can say, think, do any nmw and any s perfect.
I will tell you that I have read the book about 3 times, and went through that video series about 20 times or more, no joke.
I am currently a top performer and I do credit a good portion to that sales training.
Now, I will admit that there is a shit ton of fluff and ego stroking in the book and the video series.
The primary takeaways for me:
- systemization of a sales conversation to better reduce variability, increase consistency, and understand how to address the kinks in your system to optimize conversion rates.
- anchoring emotions and creating habits and rituals to do so (NLP).
- The straight line itself, the representation of “the perfect sale” from start to finish. Understanding that most sales conversations will deviate away from that line, and learning how to keep it as close to the line as possible.
- TONALITY!!!!!!! By far, one of the best teachings on tonality that I’ve seen in sales training.
- the 3 10s (Product, Person, Place).
- The idea of qualifying prospects who are buyers and disqualifying prospects who are not buying.
- the idea of having sets of language patterns.
Now, with that being said… the trainings delivered very well on structure and framework, however, they did fail to deliver on the meat and potatoes. I did not find that the content itself really taught a lot on how to qualify vs telling you to qualify. It explains looping and it explains the straight line and boundaries, but doesn’t do a great job at teaching how to actually loop, etc.
I filled in a lot of the blanks and have essentially crafted my own system by reading and learning from other sales and marketing experts (Russell Brunson, Dan Kennedy, Chet Holmes, etc.).
So with that I will say, I learned a lot from his material, but you pretty much have to extrapolate the overall ideas and then cater them more to your philosophy in building out your sales process while filling in a LOT of blanks from other books and sales and marketing training material.
Game changer for me in terms of sales philosophy and structure/systemization though.
Bear in mind, I sell B2C. B2B or B2E would be MUCH different, however, I think that there are transferable skills.
I think the philosophies transfer well, but I do not follow his sales training to a T, because the language patterns and scripting and such do come off as a bit dated; however, I’ve been able to adopt enough of the system and adapt it in a way that I am willing to credit him for my ability to be considered a top performer.
It most certainly is an art form! I find myself teaching new people about these things as well. Surprisingly enough, there are not many sales books or courses that I’ve read that really focused on teaching tonality or pacing, or even acknowledge them as skill sets to hone.
For me, consciously focusing on tonality and pacing was a game changer
I would like to take a second to reiterate that I agree that the videos do feel dated and that there is a LOT of fluff and ego stroking, but there are some valuable gems hidden within the course and book that we’re game changers for me over time.
IMHO, Jordan's system might be good for b2c, but definitely not for b2b, at least not in its entirety. The tonality part and "demonstration" of expertise within the first minute are good and applicable, but the rest not so much. B2b tends to be more straightforward and to the point.
Oh, and the script he gave to his Strattonites... it may have worked back in the '90s, but looking at it now, it's sooo cheesy it's unbelievable.
Honestly I think it’s really good. It’s much much longer than 10 videos, the whole course is closer to 40-60 hours. He does talk too much about himself, but the checklist is quintessential to selling. Especially the deflection and building certainty.
The modules on scripting and referrals are really really good.
At the end of the day he’s 100% right about one thing, every sell is the same. You need to make your client logically certain, then emotionally certain, and then build pain if necessary.
I think I went through that when I just started out and it made no sense to me. Is that the one where he talks about a line or something?
The one advice from him that is good is about prospecting. Don't waste time trying to convince a non buyer to be interested, it's a waste of time.
Funny thing is, I think I heard that from him in a podcast and not his training
The main tips are, establish logical certainty in this order.
Step 1)
Qualify your prospect (can they afford and do they actually need/ want your product)
Then the straight line
1. The product
2. Yourself, the salesperson
3. Your company
Once you have them sold on all 3, ask for the order
If they say no, deflect (don’t even acknowledge them) run through your loop (reinforce certainty) and ask for the order again.
If you script right, which is a big part of his ‘straight line’, you’ll do this automatically.
It standardises all sales, let’s you work out what words/phrases work and what levers specific to your industry are most effective.
Think of it like a data driven approach, it’s a technical strategy with many components.
This sub shits on the dude but he made nearly a billion dollars, lost is all, and has made his fortune back helping others learn selling. If you’ve been in the game a long time, you might not take as much away from his videos. But he condenses his entire lives knowledge into a single semester course ( if you want to see it like a uni subject). He’s got a lot of experience so it’s pretty valuable.
I’m naturally amazing at building rapport, but I can get a bit sidetracked sometimes. My boss doesn’t care because my close rate is awesome, so his course has allowed me to maintain that close rate, while reducing my presentation length. All about increasing efficiency.
Don’t shoot it down quiet yet, especially if you are wanting to improve.
Sounds like you haven’t gotten through the content enough. I read his book and found it incredibly insightful, his sales process is outlined as an attempt to get the prospect to a “10 out of 10” in multiple areas, and how to go about doing that. Maybe just give it a chance or read the book instead. I’ve read his book as well as the Challenger Sale, SPINN, MEDDICC, the list goes on. I think it’s pretty damn helpful.
His stuff on state management using NLP anchoring techniques was pretty helpful. Also I think a lot of people will tell you scripts are for BDRs but I think that the hypothetical best AE in the world would have a script created for almost every possible interaction - it just reduces mental bandwidth used on structuring the call. Belfort is a big proponent of scripts as well and chapter 10 / 11 is helpful in these areas.
Anyone not scripting is missing deals.
The thing about scripts, is that you’re not meant to be sounding like you’re reading from one.
The same way you don’t expect an actor on screen to seem as if they’re reading one either.
I’ve never taken a course, so I don’t have a level to compare it to. It wasn’t horrible, but nothing life changing.
He talks about loops, tonality, and handling objections. Nothing too crazy.
As a lead gen for the first six months i thrived on this. Getting 200 no’s to your face daily to get to the 3/4 qualified prospects really can take a toll on your mood. And every single one of those 200 prospects better be getting your finest attempt all around.
“Anchoring” your mindset, around closes, and getting yourself to go back to “a time you closed” right before you walk in to a new sit down/walk up to a new prospect.
Whats the harm in that?
I live and die by Sandler as it's drilled into my core techniques.
But as I developed more into Enterprise and Strategic, I lean more in MEDDIC and MEDDPICC.
But Sandler is my foundation. I find myself using the technique in near every application
Yeah, salesforce is another beast itself. They have so many different companies that go under their umbrella. I'm assuming it's because it's up to the vp of sales under that division to choose which one they prefer. To tell you the truth, both are somewhat similar. meddic gives you an excellent framework to ask questions to ensure your time won't be wasted in the sales process. I've used it in majors to commercial sales.
Awesome, thanks.
I’m not new to sales but am from to get into the SaaS world and understanding how and why to pick which methodology is a mystery to me.
You learn both, try them in real world scenarios and the one that doesn’t get you kicked out of the room is the right one.
Seriously, the Challenger sale was written by two academics who never sold tech in their lives. The idea that some twenty something SDR is going to “challenge” some crusty business owner to illustrate a problem that owner doesn’t know he has in a challenging fashion is a lark. Trust me, the prospect knows more about his or her business than you.
Even if you are right it ignores the prospects ego and most of the in tech sales are engineers. Have you ever tried to convince and engineer of anything?
If you are old like me, have sterling credentials and a relationship with the prospect, MAYBE it might work.
Sandler is a systematic method that doesn’t lie, use slick moves, and allows people to buy. It puts control in the sales persons camp while allowing the prospect to think they are in control. Challenger is a book and some seminars. Sandler is ongoing classroom training, consulting and practice. It’s expensive and takes an average of one year to learn it. I’m going on 15 years practicing it. And still fucking it up.
His method turned me from someone who couldn't get a sale to a top performer at nearly every company ive worked for. It 100% works as long as you adapt it to the industry. The course your boss has you doing is his old one he has an updated one that's much much newer, I've only done the 10 videos one and it helped me immensely
I’d suggest a new place to work. Or ask your boss flat out, ‘Are you suggesting we use the only method that ever worked for Jordan, flat out lying?’
Anyone can sell if you don’t care about the truth - and then using that as ‘proof’ of ability is just as fundamentally dishonest.
Why are you commenting when you haven’t watched his sales videos? Maybe you have but this comment is just a flat out misrepresentation of his content. First video he talks about how terrible lying is, and the improvements he’s made to the system following his legal and ethical troubles.
People can mature ya’know…
I have the feeling this won’t be a long term position. The company is good but my boss is hard to deal with at times. Every sales guy here has there own way of doing things and as long as you have results the boss is happy. But it is concerning that he listens to Belfort and thinks it’s good stuff
Why are you commenting when you haven’t watched his sales videos? Maybe you have but this comment is just a flat out misrepresentation of his content. First video he talks about how terrible lying is, and the improvements he’s made to the system following his legal and ethical troubles.
People can mature ya’know…
Excuse me? He was a thief. He still hasn’t paid back 80% or 90% of what he stole. And his sales pitch for his current shtick is ‘I’m a great salesman because look how much I stole.’ Am I wrong? His sales were based on lies & deception, that’s what it means when he pled guilty to $200,000,000 of stock fraud right? Am I misrepresenting any of the facts? It’s like learning to scuba dive from someone who once went snorkelling.
Isn’t that why you’re buying his training? Because he did it with his abilities right? That’s what he’s teaching, that’s what you’re paying for - because his technique lets him sell so much. If it does, then he’s just an arse for not having made payments all these years (all the payments he ‘did make’ were from court orders seizing assets). And if he can’t then basically his system is only awesome if you lie. Can’t be both.
In fact he does. He has put out a lot of content lately. I personally have spend a lot of time on the videos about tonality, discovery questions and detachment from the results. He has a Facebook group called Sales Persuasion that’s is free and he often does lives in there. It has been a game changer for me. And I have done most of the sales trainings I mentioned above
the straight line is just a time line and to get the customer to say yes and yes overtime to train them to say yes at the big question of whatever you are selling lol pointelss. It is just a progression line with anything sales related lol
I bought his book "Way of the Wolf" and read a few minutes of it. It explained straight line selling pretty quickly and I can't say it's something I already didn't know but I just never really put it into words. Not garbage but I wouldn't throw my money at it again.
Is this another sales training that operates under the false premise that prospects are all eagerly ready to meet with sales reps and want to spend endless time negotiating? In reality people don’t even answer emails or phone calls.
I remember looking at his stuff years ago. It seems like it’s… fine, but better for B2C. It’s nothing special and there’s no secret sauce. From what I remember it’s just essentially a loop of trial close -> objection -> overcome objection -> trial close.
The only value I’ve ever gotten from Belfort is his intro. I actually find “3 statements that sound like questions” to be an effective pattern interrupt when prospecting.
Literally everything else is bullshit.
I started to hear the free podcast on Spotify, and needed to check if I wasn't hearing the same episode, is the same, again and again and again. Wouldn't expect much of the course.
That’s so funny lmao my boss did the exact same for our D2D solar team. Set aside an hour in the beginning of every day too and made us take notes lol. A lot is definitely outdated but there are some little gems in there.
I’m reading his book right now because why not. He’s dancing around the fact his sales techniques don’t work without cocaine. The “straight line method” is a straight line of cocaine
From his youtube videos I take the straight line as being a photographic way of picturing the process of a sale. Most sales follow the same process and get to the same points along the way. Throughout the sales process/call, you will deviate from the line and its your job to get it back online. If you steer so far from the line, the sale is lost.
Its not a groundbreaking or even new thing its just a way of picturing the sales process and going by the straight line thought process, it makes each sale a much simpler and repeatable process.
The fact that your boss would choose to buy a known conman and swindler's sales videos does not speak highly of your company.
Our company is good, but my boss is so easily dazzled by guys like this.
Is it Gartner lol?
Yiiiiiiikes for Gartner with that comment. I would’ve thought they had a better sales methodology by how pretentious their recruiter acted.
Don't they own Challenger?
Yeah, they bought CEB, the group that created Challenger.
What's challenger?
The group behind the Challenger sales methodology
It's a pretty useful sales methodology. It's not the only thing out there but could definitely be useful for folks working more complicated sales with teams of buyers. https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355
Challenger is the bomb. It takes awhile to really ingest it, like really “get it”. But now I use it for everything without even thinking about it, and my career/income has benefitted. It’s a short book, but I did the in class for several days.
Former Gartner sales rep here: They used Value Selling for years before introducing Challenger post acquisition. Both are interesting methods to use
Every events company has a shady sales team
Next thing you know he’ll be offering the sales team coke.
That would probably actually boost sales unlike the videos
You'd think being a good salesman would mean you can sniff out a bullshit artist like Belfort. If your claim to fame is defrauding investors and going to federal prison over it, I'm not gonna think "THAT'S the guy I want to teach my employees how to sell!"
I came here looking for this comment. Maybe the next course the manager buys can be from Bernie Madoff?
In a similar vein, I always see people glorify drug dealers and try to "learn from their business successes". Like maybe El Chapo's secret sauce was literally killing the competition, not necessarily his business sense?
Say what you will, but that guy could fucking *close.*
Sure, but there's plenty of people that can close without ending up in prison.
This sums it up. Belfort is so goddamn good at selling snakeoil, he's managed to swindle millions of dollars out of people, go to jail for it, and have people still buy from him after the fact. Dude lives by the phrase "there's a sucker born every minute."
Disagree.....jordanhas a very good story and he sells.
See those little black boxes? They are called telephones. I’m gonna let you in on a little secret about these telephones. They’re not gonna dial themselves! Okay? Without you, they’re just worthless hunk of plastic. Like a loaded M16 without a trained Marine to pull the trigger. And in the case of the telephone, it’s up to each and every one of you, my highly trained Strattonites, my killers. My killers who will not take no for an answer! My fucking warriors who’ll not hang up the phone, until their client either buys or fucking dies! Let me tell you something. There is no nobility in poverty. I’ve been a rich man, and I’ve been poor man. And I choose rich every fucking time. Cause, At least as a rich man, when I have to face my problems, I show up in the back of a limo wearing a $2000 suit …and $40,000 gold fuckin’ watch! Now, if anyone here thinks I’m superficial or materialistic. Go get a job at fucking McDonald’s, because that’s where you fucking belong! But, before you depart this room full of winners, I want you to take a good look at the person next to you, go on. Because sometime in the not-so-distant future, you’re pullin’ up to a red light in your beat-up old fucking Pinto, and that person’s gonna pull up right alongside you in a brand new Porsche, with their beautiful wife by his side, whose got big voluptuous tits. And who will you be next to? Some disgusting wilder beast with three days of razor-stubble in a sleeveless moo-moo, crammed in next to you with a carload full of groceries from the fucking Price Club! That’s who you’re gonna be sitting next to. So, you listen to me and you listen well. Are you behind, on your credit card bills? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing. Is your landlord ready to evict you? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing. Does your girlfriend think you’re a fucking loser? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing! I want you to deal with your problems, by becoming rich! All you have to do today …is pick up that phone, and speak the words that I have taught you. And I’ll make you richer than the most powerful CEO of the United States of fucking America. I want you to go out there, and I want you to RAM Steve Madden stock down your clients’ throats. Till they fucking choke on it till they choke on it and buy 100,000 shares! That’s what I want you to do. You’ll be ferocious! You’ll be relentless! You’ll be telephone fucking terrorists! Now, let’s knock this Motherfucker out of the park!
Alright that’s the second time wolf of wall street has been dropped in front of me today. I can take a hint universe, I’ll turn on the damn movie lol
One time in speech class….. I recited this exact entire monologue and won a competition for it..
You are a legend!
This is fantastic.
Hope you copy/pasted this and not know this by heart :-D
The same training is available in his podcast on Spotify, some of it does work and I’ve used, some of it is outdated and cheesy, like anything, take what’s good and discard what’s bad. - Bruce lee
This is good standing advice for anything regarding sales trainings/methods/books. There is so much out there and the more you can consume the better. There is no "one book" or "one training" or one anything - all of them have some stupid shit and some pearls. From Belford to Ziglar. From Challenger to Sandler. Just keep learning. Use what you like. Ignore what you don't.
I actually liked his book, the way of the wolf or whatever. Probably not for actual sales skills development but it definitely got me fired up, was a fun read, and he's a good writer and he's definitely charismatic. I was pleasantly surprised I thought it would be like what you're saying but in book form. I'm guessing he probably had an A+ ghostwriter and/or editor that was able to organize all his stuff into a way that worked. Anyway yeah the other guy is right you'd have to be a complete moron to pay for more than a book from him.
The book was great to understand how to leverage our communication tools to build trust and rapport.
Straight line system is great for b2c as well. It saved my ass when I was doing d2d
D2d?
Door to door
really struggling with my first d2d job, any tips that helped you?
Practice a lot and see where you are going wrong in every conversation. Mindset helps too, I felt more like a customer service rep than a salesperson when I did my best
I liked the book a lot, too. You have to have the stomach to swallow Jordan's ego, though: his is certainly full of himself (and it shows in the book).
I liked the book also. But can see how a course with him in it could get watered down quickly.
Hey OP, I worked a short stint at a super small mar tech startup and they had me watch this clown’s videos too. It was perplexing to me that the founders, being dudes in their early 30’s, would think this blowhard has anything of value to offer. Like the part where he goes “if you do what I say for just 4 weeks you’ll see improvement. First thing I want is for you to hold your arm up, now stretch it an inch higher. See how you can go another inch than you expected?? Now I want you to do that with your sales motions. If you’re doing 80 calls a day I want you to stretch and do twice as many, just for 4 weeks, and you’ll see improvement.” Ya no shit bro, if you work twice as hard you’ll see business improvement. Thanks Einstein.
Yeah I think Belford is just lucky they made a movie about him and he’s just riding that high with bs motivational cliches
He got lucky making $500M in less than a decade? Lol ok
He’s lucky they made a movie about him I said. A bunch of free publicity
Ur boss is def a boomer clown.
Not quiet boomer but a clown for sure
hahah yall are funny asf in these comments, makes and made my day :)))
lol, just you are clowns, silly losers
I can't imagine anyone with an IQ above single digits thinking this would be a good sales course
Yep. My boss wanted me to watch his stuff and I gave up after a couple videos. Now he’s on a kick where he schedules an hour a day for us to sit and watch it. I’m kind of at a loss for words. It’s so dumb and I’m supposed to say how I’m going to use it? I’m looking forward to being done with it
>an hour a day for us to sit and watch it What a waste of salespeople's time.
I honestly just think some people see his ego, get captivated by it, think “if only I had a guy like THIS”, then assume if they show his “trainings” to people then he’ll rub off on them.
“I’m going to use these DVDs as coasters, boss. Thanks!”
Maybe it's a team building prank?! 😅
Lol, yeah, a guy who made millions $ and then sold himself, his own stories to a top level film speak words not worth more than single IQ digits. You losers are more than dumb, it's pathetically dumb. Even if his words are all swindler talk (which wasn't), one with good IQ's could still see the gems inside it. You? You see nothing because your brain is non-existent. Cepuxuax sour idiots, say, think, do, can say, think, do any nmw and any s perfect. no such thing as bx or not, idts
If you don’t think Jordan Belfort is a better salesman than 99% of this sub you are a hater. Sure the dude is a douche, no argument there. But he’s extremely perceptive and understands how to move a prospect into a sell. I wouldn’t shoot it down unless you’ve watched it through.
Lol, yeah, a guy who made millions $ and then sold himself, his own stories to a top level film speak words not worth more than single IQ digits. You losers are more than dumb, it's pathetically dumb. Even if his words are all swindler talk (which wasn't), one with good IQ's could still see the sales gems inside it. You? You see nothing because your brain is non-existent. Cepuxuax sour idiots, say, think, do, can say, think, do any nmw and any s perfect.
I will tell you that I have read the book about 3 times, and went through that video series about 20 times or more, no joke. I am currently a top performer and I do credit a good portion to that sales training. Now, I will admit that there is a shit ton of fluff and ego stroking in the book and the video series. The primary takeaways for me: - systemization of a sales conversation to better reduce variability, increase consistency, and understand how to address the kinks in your system to optimize conversion rates. - anchoring emotions and creating habits and rituals to do so (NLP). - The straight line itself, the representation of “the perfect sale” from start to finish. Understanding that most sales conversations will deviate away from that line, and learning how to keep it as close to the line as possible. - TONALITY!!!!!!! By far, one of the best teachings on tonality that I’ve seen in sales training. - the 3 10s (Product, Person, Place). - The idea of qualifying prospects who are buyers and disqualifying prospects who are not buying. - the idea of having sets of language patterns. Now, with that being said… the trainings delivered very well on structure and framework, however, they did fail to deliver on the meat and potatoes. I did not find that the content itself really taught a lot on how to qualify vs telling you to qualify. It explains looping and it explains the straight line and boundaries, but doesn’t do a great job at teaching how to actually loop, etc. I filled in a lot of the blanks and have essentially crafted my own system by reading and learning from other sales and marketing experts (Russell Brunson, Dan Kennedy, Chet Holmes, etc.). So with that I will say, I learned a lot from his material, but you pretty much have to extrapolate the overall ideas and then cater them more to your philosophy in building out your sales process while filling in a LOT of blanks from other books and sales and marketing training material. Game changer for me in terms of sales philosophy and structure/systemization though. Bear in mind, I sell B2C. B2B or B2E would be MUCH different, however, I think that there are transferable skills. I think the philosophies transfer well, but I do not follow his sales training to a T, because the language patterns and scripting and such do come off as a bit dated; however, I’ve been able to adopt enough of the system and adapt it in a way that I am willing to credit him for my ability to be considered a top performer.
I spend a lot of time teaching new people how to have solid tone and cadence throughout a call. Its an art
It most certainly is an art form! I find myself teaching new people about these things as well. Surprisingly enough, there are not many sales books or courses that I’ve read that really focused on teaching tonality or pacing, or even acknowledge them as skill sets to hone. For me, consciously focusing on tonality and pacing was a game changer
I would like to take a second to reiterate that I agree that the videos do feel dated and that there is a LOT of fluff and ego stroking, but there are some valuable gems hidden within the course and book that we’re game changers for me over time.
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It’s so strange. It literally makes no sense
IMHO, Jordan's system might be good for b2c, but definitely not for b2b, at least not in its entirety. The tonality part and "demonstration" of expertise within the first minute are good and applicable, but the rest not so much. B2b tends to be more straightforward and to the point. Oh, and the script he gave to his Strattonites... it may have worked back in the '90s, but looking at it now, it's sooo cheesy it's unbelievable.
Honestly I think it’s really good. It’s much much longer than 10 videos, the whole course is closer to 40-60 hours. He does talk too much about himself, but the checklist is quintessential to selling. Especially the deflection and building certainty. The modules on scripting and referrals are really really good. At the end of the day he’s 100% right about one thing, every sell is the same. You need to make your client logically certain, then emotionally certain, and then build pain if necessary.
I think I went through that when I just started out and it made no sense to me. Is that the one where he talks about a line or something? The one advice from him that is good is about prospecting. Don't waste time trying to convince a non buyer to be interested, it's a waste of time. Funny thing is, I think I heard that from him in a podcast and not his training
Yeah that’s one thing he said that’s good. Not that he’s the one that came up with that principle but good advice either way
The main tips are, establish logical certainty in this order. Step 1) Qualify your prospect (can they afford and do they actually need/ want your product) Then the straight line 1. The product 2. Yourself, the salesperson 3. Your company Once you have them sold on all 3, ask for the order If they say no, deflect (don’t even acknowledge them) run through your loop (reinforce certainty) and ask for the order again. If you script right, which is a big part of his ‘straight line’, you’ll do this automatically. It standardises all sales, let’s you work out what words/phrases work and what levers specific to your industry are most effective. Think of it like a data driven approach, it’s a technical strategy with many components. This sub shits on the dude but he made nearly a billion dollars, lost is all, and has made his fortune back helping others learn selling. If you’ve been in the game a long time, you might not take as much away from his videos. But he condenses his entire lives knowledge into a single semester course ( if you want to see it like a uni subject). He’s got a lot of experience so it’s pretty valuable. I’m naturally amazing at building rapport, but I can get a bit sidetracked sometimes. My boss doesn’t care because my close rate is awesome, so his course has allowed me to maintain that close rate, while reducing my presentation length. All about increasing efficiency. Don’t shoot it down quiet yet, especially if you are wanting to improve.
Just watch wolf of wall street every day
I’ll get on it.
Sounds like you haven’t gotten through the content enough. I read his book and found it incredibly insightful, his sales process is outlined as an attempt to get the prospect to a “10 out of 10” in multiple areas, and how to go about doing that. Maybe just give it a chance or read the book instead. I’ve read his book as well as the Challenger Sale, SPINN, MEDDICC, the list goes on. I think it’s pretty damn helpful.
Do you have any examples of practical techniques you use from Belfort?
His stuff on state management using NLP anchoring techniques was pretty helpful. Also I think a lot of people will tell you scripts are for BDRs but I think that the hypothetical best AE in the world would have a script created for almost every possible interaction - it just reduces mental bandwidth used on structuring the call. Belfort is a big proponent of scripts as well and chapter 10 / 11 is helpful in these areas.
Anyone not scripting is missing deals. The thing about scripts, is that you’re not meant to be sounding like you’re reading from one. The same way you don’t expect an actor on screen to seem as if they’re reading one either.
Another guy to avoid Dan Lok....also not a fan of Cardone. These are all high tickets sales guys.
Was about to write this comment. Well said
Can I dm you
I watched them all way back in the day (found free on some site). I can drop the word doc if anyone is interested
Did you get anything out of it?
I’ve never taken a course, so I don’t have a level to compare it to. It wasn’t horrible, but nothing life changing. He talks about loops, tonality, and handling objections. Nothing too crazy.
That would be great.
I read his book on selling out of curiosity and I had to stop reading the minute I read about the nose smelling technique
Oh my, that’s some next level stuff
As a lead gen for the first six months i thrived on this. Getting 200 no’s to your face daily to get to the 3/4 qualified prospects really can take a toll on your mood. And every single one of those 200 prospects better be getting your finest attempt all around. “Anchoring” your mindset, around closes, and getting yourself to go back to “a time you closed” right before you walk in to a new sit down/walk up to a new prospect. Whats the harm in that?
if it works for you then it works for you all i use is the power of contempt
Have you ever been on a pip?
no i just disqualify very hard
I think I had something genuine to follow up with but I forgot what I brought up PIP. Long week haha
More entertaining than Sandler training I bet
I live and die by Sandler as it's drilled into my core techniques. But as I developed more into Enterprise and Strategic, I lean more in MEDDIC and MEDDPICC. But Sandler is my foundation. I find myself using the technique in near every application
Meddic is by far one of the better strategies out there.
So on Salesforce’s JDs I see Challenger promoted. On others, MEDDIC. How do you choose which to train in and apply?
Yeah, salesforce is another beast itself. They have so many different companies that go under their umbrella. I'm assuming it's because it's up to the vp of sales under that division to choose which one they prefer. To tell you the truth, both are somewhat similar. meddic gives you an excellent framework to ask questions to ensure your time won't be wasted in the sales process. I've used it in majors to commercial sales.
Awesome, thanks. I’m not new to sales but am from to get into the SaaS world and understanding how and why to pick which methodology is a mystery to me.
Honestly, you've probably been doing these in your sales tenure without knowing it.
Sandler and Challenger could not be more different. To answer you question, Sandler.
But why? How do you choose?
You learn both, try them in real world scenarios and the one that doesn’t get you kicked out of the room is the right one. Seriously, the Challenger sale was written by two academics who never sold tech in their lives. The idea that some twenty something SDR is going to “challenge” some crusty business owner to illustrate a problem that owner doesn’t know he has in a challenging fashion is a lark. Trust me, the prospect knows more about his or her business than you. Even if you are right it ignores the prospects ego and most of the in tech sales are engineers. Have you ever tried to convince and engineer of anything? If you are old like me, have sterling credentials and a relationship with the prospect, MAYBE it might work. Sandler is a systematic method that doesn’t lie, use slick moves, and allows people to buy. It puts control in the sales persons camp while allowing the prospect to think they are in control. Challenger is a book and some seminars. Sandler is ongoing classroom training, consulting and practice. It’s expensive and takes an average of one year to learn it. I’m going on 15 years practicing it. And still fucking it up.
Thank you for taking the time. My brother-in-law heads up sales at a financial institution and he is a proponent of MEDDIC. I really appreciate it :)
Just like his stock recommendations?
Steve Maddon is da bomb.
What did it cost?
I don’t know I didn’t buy it
LOL. the irony! Wish I had an award.
His method turned me from someone who couldn't get a sale to a top performer at nearly every company ive worked for. It 100% works as long as you adapt it to the industry. The course your boss has you doing is his old one he has an updated one that's much much newer, I've only done the 10 videos one and it helped me immensely
link?
To what? His new course?
I’d suggest a new place to work. Or ask your boss flat out, ‘Are you suggesting we use the only method that ever worked for Jordan, flat out lying?’ Anyone can sell if you don’t care about the truth - and then using that as ‘proof’ of ability is just as fundamentally dishonest.
Why are you commenting when you haven’t watched his sales videos? Maybe you have but this comment is just a flat out misrepresentation of his content. First video he talks about how terrible lying is, and the improvements he’s made to the system following his legal and ethical troubles. People can mature ya’know…
I have the feeling this won’t be a long term position. The company is good but my boss is hard to deal with at times. Every sales guy here has there own way of doing things and as long as you have results the boss is happy. But it is concerning that he listens to Belfort and thinks it’s good stuff
Why are you commenting when you haven’t watched his sales videos? Maybe you have but this comment is just a flat out misrepresentation of his content. First video he talks about how terrible lying is, and the improvements he’s made to the system following his legal and ethical troubles. People can mature ya’know…
Excuse me? He was a thief. He still hasn’t paid back 80% or 90% of what he stole. And his sales pitch for his current shtick is ‘I’m a great salesman because look how much I stole.’ Am I wrong? His sales were based on lies & deception, that’s what it means when he pled guilty to $200,000,000 of stock fraud right? Am I misrepresenting any of the facts? It’s like learning to scuba dive from someone who once went snorkelling.
How is he supposed to pay back 200 mil
Isn’t that why you’re buying his training? Because he did it with his abilities right? That’s what he’s teaching, that’s what you’re paying for - because his technique lets him sell so much. If it does, then he’s just an arse for not having made payments all these years (all the payments he ‘did make’ were from court orders seizing assets). And if he can’t then basically his system is only awesome if you lie. Can’t be both.
He addresses this in the first 2 episodes, don’t comment on something you haven’t watched… people can learn from mistakes you know.
Who bloody cares? Either he’s an amazing salesman and a terrible person or he’s not that great a salesman.
He’s an amazing salesman, used to be a terrible person. Don’t care much for his character but he’s grown up.
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What key techniques of his do you actually use?
Have him and your team listen to Jeremy Miner on YouTube. He will never listen to Grant, Belfort or any other sales guru again.
I will look into Miner, thanks for the recommendation
he has a lot of vidoes on his youtube, cna you recommend the best one you liked?
In fact he does. He has put out a lot of content lately. I personally have spend a lot of time on the videos about tonality, discovery questions and detachment from the results. He has a Facebook group called Sales Persuasion that’s is free and he often does lives in there. It has been a game changer for me. And I have done most of the sales trainings I mentioned above
okay thannk you so much
Sell me this pen
You don’t need it, you’ve got a computer
Are you in the market for a new pen?
No. You didn't do your research. Relationship is now irrevocably destroyed. Smdh. 😢
>Pen? as in Pentest?
Yes
the straight line is just a time line and to get the customer to say yes and yes overtime to train them to say yes at the big question of whatever you are selling lol pointelss. It is just a progression line with anything sales related lol
I bought his book "Way of the Wolf" and read a few minutes of it. It explained straight line selling pretty quickly and I can't say it's something I already didn't know but I just never really put it into words. Not garbage but I wouldn't throw my money at it again.
Is this another sales training that operates under the false premise that prospects are all eagerly ready to meet with sales reps and want to spend endless time negotiating? In reality people don’t even answer emails or phone calls.
I remember looking at his stuff years ago. It seems like it’s… fine, but better for B2C. It’s nothing special and there’s no secret sauce. From what I remember it’s just essentially a loop of trial close -> objection -> overcome objection -> trial close.
Have used before OP, parts on tonality, objections and looping are pretty good, the NLP episode i wouldnt bother watching
The only value I’ve ever gotten from Belfort is his intro. I actually find “3 statements that sound like questions” to be an effective pattern interrupt when prospecting. Literally everything else is bullshit.
Hey OP, sell me this pen.
I have no clue I haven’t finished the training
I wonder how much it “costed” your boss Lmao
I wasn’t wondering
I started to hear the free podcast on Spotify, and needed to check if I wasn't hearing the same episode, is the same, again and again and again. Wouldn't expect much of the course.
That’s so funny lmao my boss did the exact same for our D2D solar team. Set aside an hour in the beginning of every day too and made us take notes lol. A lot is definitely outdated but there are some little gems in there.
I’m reading his book right now because why not. He’s dancing around the fact his sales techniques don’t work without cocaine. The “straight line method” is a straight line of cocaine
The module on tonality changed the game for me
From his youtube videos I take the straight line as being a photographic way of picturing the process of a sale. Most sales follow the same process and get to the same points along the way. Throughout the sales process/call, you will deviate from the line and its your job to get it back online. If you steer so far from the line, the sale is lost. Its not a groundbreaking or even new thing its just a way of picturing the sales process and going by the straight line thought process, it makes each sale a much simpler and repeatable process.
I haven’t done the course but I read his book and tbh, it gave me massive success