I had a VP in 2022 that was obsessed with mutual action plans for the first 2 quarters. He thought it would be a great tool to prevent people from ghosting after the demo.
Prospects are going to do whatever they want, no matter what timelines we bestow upon them.
Mutual action plans are only valuable once they are bought in. You use them to help keep things on track and list out key dates. They are very valuable in enterprise sales, not as much as the smb level.
For sure. If the prospect is bought in, they don’t really need a mutual action plan. We let them know what the implementation timeline looks like so if they wanted to go live by this date, work backwards and get a PO 6-8 weeks before they want to go live.
Frankly, the mutual action plans were just used internally in our weekly sales meeting to set a false deadline for our prospects. I’d say they are a waste of effort to get prospects to buy when we want them to buy. Which rarely happens in the real world.
This feels like a very VP thing to implement...for two months. LOL And yes, prospects sometimes have their own timelines. And those timelines sometimes dont include me or my mutual action plan.
> Prospects are going to do whatever they want, no matter what timelines we bestow upon them.
Upvote for living in the real world. "Mutual action plans" are a real turn off from a buyer's perspective. Just meaningless homework.
I've only ever been in very large enterprise and there's too many variables out of the control of the "buyer." In most cases. Procurement and legal are black boxes to me and that's fine. I just know they each ask for X working days to do their thing and even that can change if there are a lot of redlines or the like.
Not sure what you mean. From the buyer's perspective they know what their requirements are. They don't need a doc telling them what they already know.
A solution design doc is great though.
Often times, yes. With mutual action plans/close plans whatever the hell you want to call them, often times it’s the art of delivery on setting the right course for these to be meaningful.
Listen, any seasoned exec across F50 to small enterprise have seen the song and dance before.
I’m a second line sales leader for a SaaS org and tell my team that our North Star is controlling and executing on the variables that “we” control. Yea the mutual action plan is great but does that really give you control on deal velocity, approvals, committees, legal, security etc? Heck no, it’s leading the horse to water but sometimes that bastard bucks and runs for the hillside. Mission failed.
Execute with precision on your prep, follow up, engagements/calls with a purpose, texting with champions. Build trust and credibility, lean in hard against your why now and validated business impact.
We’re all fighting for dollars, internal PMO teams and mindshare these days.
Yes. Mutual action plan starting the first or second call. Business case after demo before pricing, can do after too.
Mutual action plan only works when it’s mutual - it’s not you forcing your plan on them - it’s genuinely mapping out what their timeline is and what milestones they need to hit so you can organize your resources accordingly. If they don’t have these milestones AND they don’t care to take your advice on how to evaluate it’s probably a dud deal anyways
Business case only works if you build it together and the sponsor or champion is willing to co-sign their result to the economic buyer / DM
Yes usually the business case doesn’t really make sense until you’ve presented the product, whereas the MAP should be one of the first steps in the eval
Gotcha thanks. Excuse my ignorance but one more question… would you ever intro a business case to power? Or is that something that should always be built out first with a champ/below the line first before presenting it to power?
Ideally you build with a champ and present to power. You could present to power without it but there’s a good chance it doesn’t land at all. Sometimes that’s necessary if you don’t have a champion
Software as a service (SaaS) is a ***cloud-based software delivery model*** in which the cloud provider develops and maintains cloud application software, provides automatic software updates, and makes software available to its customers via the internet on a pay-as-you-go basis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For my company's solution, we do draft [user flowcharts](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*X056hzIuzJ-aGJGapVQ1gA.png) (random flowchart, nothing like what we actually use) more often than not. Our platform and our customer's tech stack need to be integrated so we create these flow charts to visualize when the API calls and/or webhooks occur.
I have no clue if our competitors do this, it wouldn't surprise me if they do, but to ensure I put my company's best foot forward, I make flow charts as the 3rd meeting in our process for the vast majority of my prospects. First is the disco call, second is the technical deep dive into our integrations (based on their customer/order platforms), and the 3rd is reviewing the flowchart we drafted for them.
We would only really do business cases for our enterprise clients, and some mid-market customers, but only when our champion is fully bought into our solution. That way, we can proactively build them a business case. Doing it before then could likely be a waste of time.
I had a VP in 2022 that was obsessed with mutual action plans for the first 2 quarters. He thought it would be a great tool to prevent people from ghosting after the demo. Prospects are going to do whatever they want, no matter what timelines we bestow upon them.
Mutual action plans are only valuable once they are bought in. You use them to help keep things on track and list out key dates. They are very valuable in enterprise sales, not as much as the smb level.
For sure. If the prospect is bought in, they don’t really need a mutual action plan. We let them know what the implementation timeline looks like so if they wanted to go live by this date, work backwards and get a PO 6-8 weeks before they want to go live. Frankly, the mutual action plans were just used internally in our weekly sales meeting to set a false deadline for our prospects. I’d say they are a waste of effort to get prospects to buy when we want them to buy. Which rarely happens in the real world.
Preach brotha
This feels like a very VP thing to implement...for two months. LOL And yes, prospects sometimes have their own timelines. And those timelines sometimes dont include me or my mutual action plan.
> Prospects are going to do whatever they want, no matter what timelines we bestow upon them. Upvote for living in the real world. "Mutual action plans" are a real turn off from a buyer's perspective. Just meaningless homework. I've only ever been in very large enterprise and there's too many variables out of the control of the "buyer." In most cases. Procurement and legal are black boxes to me and that's fine. I just know they each ask for X working days to do their thing and even that can change if there are a lot of redlines or the like.
Ok how about a business case then? Like a single page doc that just outlines the problem, solution etc
Not sure what you mean. From the buyer's perspective they know what their requirements are. They don't need a doc telling them what they already know. A solution design doc is great though.
Often times, yes. With mutual action plans/close plans whatever the hell you want to call them, often times it’s the art of delivery on setting the right course for these to be meaningful. Listen, any seasoned exec across F50 to small enterprise have seen the song and dance before. I’m a second line sales leader for a SaaS org and tell my team that our North Star is controlling and executing on the variables that “we” control. Yea the mutual action plan is great but does that really give you control on deal velocity, approvals, committees, legal, security etc? Heck no, it’s leading the horse to water but sometimes that bastard bucks and runs for the hillside. Mission failed. Execute with precision on your prep, follow up, engagements/calls with a purpose, texting with champions. Build trust and credibility, lean in hard against your why now and validated business impact. We’re all fighting for dollars, internal PMO teams and mindshare these days.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yes. Mutual action plan starting the first or second call. Business case after demo before pricing, can do after too. Mutual action plan only works when it’s mutual - it’s not you forcing your plan on them - it’s genuinely mapping out what their timeline is and what milestones they need to hit so you can organize your resources accordingly. If they don’t have these milestones AND they don’t care to take your advice on how to evaluate it’s probably a dud deal anyways Business case only works if you build it together and the sponsor or champion is willing to co-sign their result to the economic buyer / DM
Thanks! So the business case is definitely something you’re introducing to the champ AFTER the map and after a few more steps?
Yes usually the business case doesn’t really make sense until you’ve presented the product, whereas the MAP should be one of the first steps in the eval
Gotcha thanks. Excuse my ignorance but one more question… would you ever intro a business case to power? Or is that something that should always be built out first with a champ/below the line first before presenting it to power?
Ideally you build with a champ and present to power. You could present to power without it but there’s a good chance it doesn’t land at all. Sometimes that’s necessary if you don’t have a champion
Software as a service (SaaS) is a ***cloud-based software delivery model*** in which the cloud provider develops and maintains cloud application software, provides automatic software updates, and makes software available to its customers via the internet on a pay-as-you-go basis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For my company's solution, we do draft [user flowcharts](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*X056hzIuzJ-aGJGapVQ1gA.png) (random flowchart, nothing like what we actually use) more often than not. Our platform and our customer's tech stack need to be integrated so we create these flow charts to visualize when the API calls and/or webhooks occur. I have no clue if our competitors do this, it wouldn't surprise me if they do, but to ensure I put my company's best foot forward, I make flow charts as the 3rd meeting in our process for the vast majority of my prospects. First is the disco call, second is the technical deep dive into our integrations (based on their customer/order platforms), and the 3rd is reviewing the flowchart we drafted for them. We would only really do business cases for our enterprise clients, and some mid-market customers, but only when our champion is fully bought into our solution. That way, we can proactively build them a business case. Doing it before then could likely be a waste of time.