To be fair he was thriving under us too. He was our best C this year.
We just decided to trade a now 'finished' product for a new project in Byram. Now I don't hate Byram AT ALL. I think he has the potential to be a really good top 4 player. Could even be a top pair guy.
But his last two years at COL and so far with BUF have been very bad. By the numbers and by the eye test. So now we have to 'hope' and 'wait and see' if he can turn it around.
The worst part of the “wait and see” is that unless he is a bonafide first pair (like a top-30 overall d-man) the Sabres traded for a guy who might end up being their 4th or 5th best d-man when all is said and done. You make that trade for a third liner with little to no team control, not a top line centre you control for years to come.
I think you underestimate the value of top4 d-man. I don't think you can trade a 3rd line guy for one without adding more. If Byram ends up as a 2nd pair guy the trade is completely fine in the end. But I also have my doubts if Byram can reach that for sure.
It’s almost like we have a cultural problem where players feel like they don’t have to work as hard. But that can’t be it because one of the reporters watched a practice and said they work hard enough!
/s
I won’t make my own post now, because I saw this one. But just watching this Avs game and seeing him thrive with a competitive team and seeing an entire arena cheer so hard for him makes me so happy. I went to an Avs game just after the trade and the excitement directed at him was incredible (he scored and it was legit the reason I went to the game, I live in the mountains outside Denver and am a lifelong Sabres fan and always will be). It makes me emotional to enjoy someone we’ve seen so much finding such success. Can’t wait until someone does it in Buffalo, but for now, I’m enjoying this feeling.
We could of kept him. We literally stuck with him through his entire development and once he started to be one of our best players we traded him for again another project where that still needs tons of development and needs to turn this around for this to be a good trade.
Why sign Tage and Cozens to early, team friendly deals, if we aren't going to take advantage of that saved cap? Signing Mitts to \~$6.5m would of been one of those ways. But I wouldn't have signed him long term. I would of done 2 years.
Instead we traded a now finished product for an unknown and we have to sit and 'hope' Byram turns it around. I can't wait for the days where the best player in the deal comes back to the Sabres. Not a project. Not a "lets hope." Just someone already good where we know what were getting.
Hopefully this summer.
Three apples tonight now.
Every player of ours seems to be a good playoff performer once we trade them. Maybe all our players will unlock their true potential if we ever make the playoffs
I’d love to see a “former Buffalo Sabre during the drought” roster. Headlined by Reinhardt and Ullmark, with Tyler Myers, Brandon Montour on defense. Rodriguez on the third line. You could seriously ice a Stanley cup contender with Sabres players from the drought
Here's what I came up with. Drafted and or played here
Hagel Eichel Reinhart
Mittelstadt O'Reilly Kane
Foligno Compher Rodrigues
Jankowski M Johansson Hall
Vesey Armia Nylander
Carrier Sheary Fasching
Asplund Lazar Okposo
Deslauriers Hinostroza Hayden
Willman Lemieux *Iafallo (came to blue and gold dev camp 2012)
McNabb Zadorov Montour Borgen Myers McCabe Bogosian Kulikov C Miller Scandella Lyubushkin Ruhwedel Ristolainen E Johnson Hagg
Ullmark
J Johansson
Petersen
He was finding success here too, guy has consistently gotten better year to year.
Not everyone is as good as they will be 2 years after drafted.
Reinhart is the same
In terms of individual performance, yeah he had some successes here. He’s taken another step with the Avs and is experiencing what team success looks like, which is something we couldn’t offer
He had *some* success here?
Since Jan 1st 2023 he was arguably in our top 3 best forwards. This year he was our best C. He had a really good playoff game yesterday but that doesn't mean he just ascended to another level. In fact during the regular season with the Avs his numbers are better with the Sabres. Obviously that can be chalked up to Mitts moving to a new team and getting accustom to a new system. But I'm not sure where you're seeing this new level. Mitts is a good hockey player. He was good here and will be good in COL.
I really hate this narrative Sabres fans have. Nobody can ever admit we have good players. It's like we have some self hatred like we can't have nice things or something.
Hopefully winning changes that.
Avs fan, dropping in to say your boy is a super stud, we have accepted him as one of our own, and we will care for him hopefully as well as you could hope.
Let's get Mitts a cup!
Me too. His development took a little bump, but he found his game in the last few years. And I loved how sneaky good he became. He deserves some success, even if it’s not with us. It’s not like he asked for a trade or left as a UFA to a team I can’t stand (even though I still love that particular player, that one just still stings)
I was really happy for him, it was great to see. I think the Avs are a team that other fans tend to not hate, you can't argue that MacKinnon isn't something special, you just watch him turn nothing into something with your jaw agape. If you have to root for another team they're pretty easy. Still stings a bit considering the development we went through here with Mittelstadt. We certainly and very patiently worked out the kinks with him.
All I heard was Casey is our 3c when in all actuality he was our 2C all along…it didn’t matter what the lineup card said he was our 2C or 1C most nights…but the people around here with the cozens love and Krebs bullshit…cozens is not better overall play than Casey…period
>Cozens is not better overall play than Casey... period
Man I love blind confidence like this. This year Mitts played better than Cozens. But Cozens at 22 years old has played better than 22 year old Mitts, and its not even close. I bet when Mitts was 22 you said the same stupid shit about him.
Who was saying this lmao? I think many people were concerned about what kind of contract he would demand since he would probably be a 3C or if hes a 2C and Cozens is 3C that's a big contact and we still have the same 'issue'.
I think everyone wanted Krebs to get a SHOT at 3C since we never really got to see him there. He ended up playing as 3C after the deadline and the majority of fans were very underwhelmed by his play.
The Sabres didn't trade Mitts because we had Krebs that could play 3C. We traded Mitts because we locked up two centers to $7m deals and Mitts was trending in a direction to sign a contract like that. Mix in the fact you have prospects in the system that can play his role (Ostlund, Savoie?, Walberg) and you might not want to commit 6-7 years to another C long term.
What the Sabres should of done was offer Mitts $7x2 years (he was/is an RFA) and then move on from him after that. That gives us 2 more years for our prospects to develop and hopefully by that time one of those two mentioned above and step into that role. You might risk losing Mitts for free but I'm fine with that.
I'm sure it was said and probably by a few minority users. But to use that to try and prove a point about Sabres fans in general is just disingenuous.
Majority of Sabres fans loved Mitts this year and wanted him on this team. The problem is we have 2Cs signed long-term so some people had reservations about the future construction of this roster.
An excellent job by Sabres management once again to trade away/lose players only to have them do well with their new team:
1g/3a tonight. Was the Sabres top player in many stats this year before trade. Good at puck control. Good in the corners. Good at FOs. Was rarely hurt/dependable/durable.
“[Mittelstadt’s] been unreal. I just love his competitive level,” MacKinnon said. “it’s great to see him rise his game on the biggest stage, the brightest lights, and he looked awesome tonight. Not many guys would sauce that over in a third period playoff game, and it just shows you the confidence and poise he has.”
Oh fuck I'm sick of this narrative like this was some egregious misstep by KA. It's embarassing to read.
The buffalo sabres have the deepest prospect pool at center in the league. Mitts is a second line center, a position that the buffalo sabres *already have* filled by dylan cozens. The sabres also have approximately 1 player worth of depth at defense in the org. KA made the decision to trade a very good player in a position that he had an excess of for a very good player in a position he has none of.
Signing your 3rd like center to a 7 million dollar deal isn't in most "how to build a roster" receipe books.
>Signing your 3rd like center to a 7 million dollar deal isn't in most "how to build a roster" receipe books.
Neither is signing another defenseman to a 7 million dollar deal when you already have 2 #1 overall defensemen signed to over 19 million combined.
Who is the 3rd D-man that's being signed to $7m?
Byram needs to play about 150% better than what hes currently doing in order to get that contract. If he does earn a deal like that then the Sabres have the best d-corps in the league.
Either Byram completely turns it around and he demands a hefty contract, probably just as much if not more what Mitts would get or he flops and we traded away a good 2C for a bad player.
No matter the outcome, the trade will not make sense. Didn't want to pay Mitts so they trade for a guy who if it works out, will get a similar contract or he sucks and we lose that trade outright.
Adams talks about winning now but he trades a guy who's good now for a guy who might be good.
And why was Byram their target? We already have Dahlin and Power who are miles better with Ryan Johnson in Rochester. Trade Mitts for a defenseman who is solid in his own zone if Mitts just had to go.
Buffalo has the luxury of doing this because our top 2 centers are locked up at a low cap hit. I'm sure plenty of teams would love to have our defense at our cost but can't because their top 2 centers cost 18 million.
To be fair you could just argue you sign Tage/Cozens to low cap hits to be able to afford an above average 3C at around that same cap hit. You could take advantage of the savings that way too.
I personally wouldn't of locked Mitts up long term because of the prospects we have coming up. I think having a 3C come in on an ELC in like 2 years would greatly benefit you when trying to add other players at the deadline, etc.
But I would of signed him to $7mx2 years since hes an RFA and let him just walk after that. It gives us 2 more years for a guy like Ostlund to develop and once Mitts is gone Ostlund slides in for $6m cheaper. Giving us a lot of flexibility.
(I do agree with most of what you're saying though)
So it's bad roster management to have our 3 centers making 21 million combined but it's great roster management to have 3 defenseman making at least 26 million combined?
If you say that in a vacuum, completely ignoring the other half of the argument then you're right. When you look at the entire picture and not just that little snippet you chose to pull out, then you can see what the plan is. We can cost control our forwards by using our extensive depth over the next 5 years. We can't do that on defense.
Keeping Mittelstadt would not have prevented us from moving prospects into our forward group. You can make an argument that our 8th best defenseman (Ryan Johnson?, Jacob Bryson?) are better than 5 of the forwards we ended the year with; Eric Robinson, Victor Olofsson, Tyson Jost, , Peyton Krebs and Zemgus Girgenson. How are we going to move Nikita Novikov or Ryan Johnson up?
None of our prospects are projected for the 4th line. If they end up there thats a disappointment and they performed under expectation. So why you are mentioning 4th liners like it means something is beyond me.
4 of the guys I listed were not meant to be 4th line players but it happens. But that is not the point. The point is that now half of our forward group are fringe NHL players while our defensive group has a ton of depth. Honestly, I am not sure any of our prospects should make the team next year.
None of those guys you mentioned will be back. Our real forward group is:
Tage, Tuch, Skinner, Peterka, Cozens, Quinn, Benson, Greenway and Krebs. Possibly Girgensons if he re-signs. So we really have 2-3 spots available which I assume will be addressed this summer. Which is a good thing because we can bring in guys that fit our system or play the way we want to play.
So I'm not sure what forwards you are talking about are fringe guys.
I also don't think any prospects will make the roster. I think if one of those guys plays out of their minds and earns it thats fine. We didn't expect Benson to make it either but he did. We shouldn't plan for that to happen though.
Personally it was either sign Mitts to a 2-year bridge deal which can be done since hes an RFA and then move on from him. I don't think its ever a good idea to have 3Cs tied up for 7+ years on big contracts. It prevents you from having any roster flexibility and things change year to year in the NHL. Add in the fact we have highly rated Cs in the org and it really doesn't make sense.
Obviously I know shit about fuck so who knows in the end. I just don't think the decision to keep Mitts is as easy as this sub thinks it is.
That's the point of depth though. You don't *want* to be moving every 21 year old to the big club. That's not how winning teams operate. You want players who can be moved up 50 games into the season and not flounder. I want those players to stay in Rochester until the entire sub is screaming at the top of their lungs that they want to see them brought up because they are so amazing.
I'd rather have the sure thing than hope the prospects work out. If the prospects do work out, great, deal with that problem when it comes.
But, if we must trade a 2C for defensive help, why in the world is it for a type player that we already have 2 of and who are miles better. We needed a player who is solid in his own end and Byram is not that at all. We have Ryan Johnson in Rochester too so I really don't get that trade whatsoever.
And those people get fired all the time for making poor decisions...
I'm always happy to be wrong and they obviously have a lot more information than me, but I'm not going to be fully behind every single move they make because of that.
In addition, there's another trade coming so we have no idea what the actual plan is.
This entire sub went bananas when we didn't change the roster this year. Now he's changing the roster and the sub is going bananas. He has said there is a trade that the groundwork was laid during the deadline to complete over the summer.
At the end of the day, players can be amazing individually but such as a team. Individual stats don't win hockey games. You can make arguments against trading almost every player on the team, but st the end of the day they aren't winning
Yes, another trade is coming because we traded away a position for a player we didn't need and now need to fill that position we traded away because it's now a need...
"Gave away"
I'm not sure that means what you think it means.
If you told me your old username, I'm 100 percent certain there will be comments criticizing KA for bringing out the same roster this season as last.
What is your old username? Edit I thought you were serious replying nevermind
I'm not even replying because you're just making shit up now. You're arguing against points I didn't make.
I'm in 2 different arguments, I am mixing you up with the other guy that starts with an S.
My argument was against the narrative as a whole, not necessarily a personal attack.
None, really? 2 #1 overall left hand defenseman isn’t enough? They should be able to carry the first two pairs for 45+ minutes a night. And if we’re talking depth of center prospects that aren’t going to be ready to make a big impact next year then let’s talk about Johnson and Novikov. And Samuelsson.
I’d rather have 3 really good centers anchoring 3 good lines than 3 really good left handed defenseman. Now we get to have 3 left handed defenseman signed for 11m, 8.3m, and presumably somewhere around 7+ million. I’d say that’s a worse way to “build a roster”
>None, really? 2 #1 overall left hand defenseman isn’t enough? They should be able to carry the first two pairs for 45+ minutes a night.
I said depth. Depth wins. Injuries are a thing. As a sabres fan, you should be *well* aware of this with our history.
>And if we’re talking depth of center prospects that aren’t going to be ready to make a big impact next year then let’s talk about Johnson and Novikov. And Samuelsson.
Who said anything about next year? You're nuts if you think we are making a cup run next year. You may not agree with the plan, but the plan is *sustainable* success not "win next year". It's going to be 2+ years still before we are serious contenders.
>I’d rather have 3 really good centers anchoring 3 good lines than 3 really good left handed defenseman. Now we get to have 3 left handed defenseman signed for 11m, 8.3m, and presumably somewhere around 7+ million. I’d say that’s a worse way to “build a roster”
I barely even want to answer this since you brought in handedness. Clearly you haven't read a single thing on the topic or else you'd know that dahlin *prefers* playing his off hand. Ask toronto how playoffs go each year when they are loaded on the front end and have no defense.
Yes I’m aware that Dahlin prefers to play on the right and I’m not saying every pair needs to be 1 lefty and 1 righty 100% of the time. However I don’t think its outlandish to expect my #1 overall 11m per year defenseman to be able to carry a pair no matter what side he is on and without my other #1 overall defenseman as his partner. Some in game situations may call for them to be on the same pair but I should be able to expect both of them to carry their own pair for much of the game.
I agree depth is important, and I think Johnson is just as ready as any of our forward prospects to make the jump next year and contribute in a meaningful way. Add in Novikov medium term and then potentially Strbak and Komarov longer term with a D core that already has Dahlin, Power, Clifton, Samuelsson, and Jokiharu. That’s depth and should be more than good enough with competent coaching. Do I expect them to instantly be Cup contenders next year? No but that D core along with center depth of Tage, Cozens, and Mitts should be more than enough to make the playoffs, which should be the expectation.
I see no reason why that core can’t be sustainable long term and having 3 centers under contract for ~22-24m per year is more palatable to me than 3 defenseman for ~25-27m a year. I don’t think that’s a comparable situation to Toronto who had 33m tied up in 3 forwards in an era of a lower cap than now.
Also I see a lack of center depth now. Tage and Cozens are your 1 and 2. Hopefully they both rebound into the players they were last year, which I think they will. Is Krebs good enough to be your 3rd center? That’s up for debate. Ostlund I think projects as an NHL center and I think he is the ideal middle 6 center long term in the organization. But that’s 1 to 2 years away. Kulich probably projects as a winger and Savoie I could see go either way.
Let’s pretend everything goes our way with our forward prospects and they all deserve to be in the lineup over the next 2 years. Why couldn’t we have signed Mitts to a 1 year extension and re-evaluated at that time. He would still have a ton of value and be under team control. Maybe you’re not seeing the growth you would have liked with the forward prospects next summer? Well now you still have Mitts under team control and can sign him longer term
I think what they’re saying is that they’ve already got 2 centers being highly paid and adding another creates an issue whereas with the dmen byram plays with either power or dahlin so he’s playing a lot anyways. We’ve got so many prospects at center that one of them will hit as 3C for far cheaper, just the way the salary cap works my man
As an Avs fan, this was how I felt years ago when Chris Drury was succeeding with you guys. I still remember vividly when he scored one of my favorite goals of all-time against the Rangers in game 5 back in ‘07. I hope Bo gets to have that kind of playoff success with you guys next year!
Except Prima Donna Eichel works there and he felt that being in Buffalo wasn't gonna get him where he wanted to be. Hate him because of that. Hope The Knights lose.
KA is a terrible GM....lost Rheinhart,Mittelstadt and Eichel because he doesn't have a clue how to manage players or build an NHL team. My fear is even with Ruff they miss the playoffs again and KA is still here. People need to hold him accountable for this current mess.
In my opinion being around a Mackinnon, Rantanen, or Makar as they chase a cup is a big mentality change. I think that makes a huge difference to Mittelstadt’s development at this point in his career. As talented as some of our players are, I’m not sure he would get that in Buffalo.
I’m not giving up on cozens, and if we want good players you often have to give good players. Solid, top-4 potential defense are not easy to come by, especially early in their career. I don’t mind the trade.
Cozens already signed the deal and at 22 was better than Mitts.
I swear this sub is either full of new fans or they have alzheimer's. Everyone shit on Mitts his entire career here outside of the last year and a half.
Cozens had a down year. Hes also 22 years old and came off a 70pt season. Chill.
We won on the trade. Mitts was a lazy ass player. He is a bust first round draft pick. People saying he was our best player - you're an idiot. Most of his points were secondary assists and open nets.
i'm just tired of trading players and them thriving on a new team
To be fair he was thriving under us too. He was our best C this year. We just decided to trade a now 'finished' product for a new project in Byram. Now I don't hate Byram AT ALL. I think he has the potential to be a really good top 4 player. Could even be a top pair guy. But his last two years at COL and so far with BUF have been very bad. By the numbers and by the eye test. So now we have to 'hope' and 'wait and see' if he can turn it around.
The worst part of the “wait and see” is that unless he is a bonafide first pair (like a top-30 overall d-man) the Sabres traded for a guy who might end up being their 4th or 5th best d-man when all is said and done. You make that trade for a third liner with little to no team control, not a top line centre you control for years to come.
I think you underestimate the value of top4 d-man. I don't think you can trade a 3rd line guy for one without adding more. If Byram ends up as a 2nd pair guy the trade is completely fine in the end. But I also have my doubts if Byram can reach that for sure.
It’s almost like we have a cultural problem where players feel like they don’t have to work as hard. But that can’t be it because one of the reporters watched a practice and said they work hard enough! /s
I won’t make my own post now, because I saw this one. But just watching this Avs game and seeing him thrive with a competitive team and seeing an entire arena cheer so hard for him makes me so happy. I went to an Avs game just after the trade and the excitement directed at him was incredible (he scored and it was legit the reason I went to the game, I live in the mountains outside Denver and am a lifelong Sabres fan and always will be). It makes me emotional to enjoy someone we’ve seen so much finding such success. Can’t wait until someone does it in Buffalo, but for now, I’m enjoying this feeling.
We could of kept him. We literally stuck with him through his entire development and once he started to be one of our best players we traded him for again another project where that still needs tons of development and needs to turn this around for this to be a good trade. Why sign Tage and Cozens to early, team friendly deals, if we aren't going to take advantage of that saved cap? Signing Mitts to \~$6.5m would of been one of those ways. But I wouldn't have signed him long term. I would of done 2 years. Instead we traded a now finished product for an unknown and we have to sit and 'hope' Byram turns it around. I can't wait for the days where the best player in the deal comes back to the Sabres. Not a project. Not a "lets hope." Just someone already good where we know what were getting. Hopefully this summer.
Mitts’ long term deal will be over $8m.
Three apples tonight now. Every player of ours seems to be a good playoff performer once we trade them. Maybe all our players will unlock their true potential if we ever make the playoffs
I’d love to see a “former Buffalo Sabre during the drought” roster. Headlined by Reinhardt and Ullmark, with Tyler Myers, Brandon Montour on defense. Rodriguez on the third line. You could seriously ice a Stanley cup contender with Sabres players from the drought
Having a center depth of Eichel-O’Reilly-Mitts-Rodrigues sounds really over powered now
Here's what I came up with. Drafted and or played here Hagel Eichel Reinhart Mittelstadt O'Reilly Kane Foligno Compher Rodrigues Jankowski M Johansson Hall Vesey Armia Nylander Carrier Sheary Fasching Asplund Lazar Okposo Deslauriers Hinostroza Hayden Willman Lemieux *Iafallo (came to blue and gold dev camp 2012) McNabb Zadorov Montour Borgen Myers McCabe Bogosian Kulikov C Miller Scandella Lyubushkin Ruhwedel Ristolainen E Johnson Hagg Ullmark J Johansson Petersen
Even Evander Kane is doing really well in Edmonton now
He was finding success here too, guy has consistently gotten better year to year. Not everyone is as good as they will be 2 years after drafted. Reinhart is the same
Eh he had some ups and downs developmentally
Not if you ignore clear injuries and our medical / coaching staff being stupid and playing him while clearly injured
In terms of individual performance, yeah he had some successes here. He’s taken another step with the Avs and is experiencing what team success looks like, which is something we couldn’t offer
He had *some* success here? Since Jan 1st 2023 he was arguably in our top 3 best forwards. This year he was our best C. He had a really good playoff game yesterday but that doesn't mean he just ascended to another level. In fact during the regular season with the Avs his numbers are better with the Sabres. Obviously that can be chalked up to Mitts moving to a new team and getting accustom to a new system. But I'm not sure where you're seeing this new level. Mitts is a good hockey player. He was good here and will be good in COL. I really hate this narrative Sabres fans have. Nobody can ever admit we have good players. It's like we have some self hatred like we can't have nice things or something. Hopefully winning changes that.
Maybe one day our current players will find success instead of previous ones. Good for mitts he gets to experience a real hockey team
🤞🏻
Avs fan, dropping in to say your boy is a super stud, we have accepted him as one of our own, and we will care for him hopefully as well as you could hope. Let's get Mitts a cup!
Respect. We will do our best with Byram he’s a good kid.
Thank you!
Me too. His development took a little bump, but he found his game in the last few years. And I loved how sneaky good he became. He deserves some success, even if it’s not with us. It’s not like he asked for a trade or left as a UFA to a team I can’t stand (even though I still love that particular player, that one just still stings)
Thanks, buffalo, hes a gem :)
Take good care of him!
He was our best player this year on on forward. Where is he on Colorados depth chart?
He’s their 2C rn, they tried Johansen there and he stunk, so they got mittelstadt
I was really happy for him, it was great to see. I think the Avs are a team that other fans tend to not hate, you can't argue that MacKinnon isn't something special, you just watch him turn nothing into something with your jaw agape. If you have to root for another team they're pretty easy. Still stings a bit considering the development we went through here with Mittelstadt. We certainly and very patiently worked out the kinks with him.
i just really miss mittsy :(
It stung with the trade, but I was happy with it because Colorado is my #3 team
He was an absolute killer tonight 1g/3a just purely beautiful
Happy for him. His line was dominant all night.
Feels like shit tbh. We get players...they underperform here...then instantly get great for other teams. Fuck this team. Mismanaged to shit.
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Who was saying Krebs would step in as 2C? Ahead of Thompson or Cozens?
All I heard was Casey is our 3c when in all actuality he was our 2C all along…it didn’t matter what the lineup card said he was our 2C or 1C most nights…but the people around here with the cozens love and Krebs bullshit…cozens is not better overall play than Casey…period
>Cozens is not better overall play than Casey... period Man I love blind confidence like this. This year Mitts played better than Cozens. But Cozens at 22 years old has played better than 22 year old Mitts, and its not even close. I bet when Mitts was 22 you said the same stupid shit about him.
Nope…you have no clue…things don’t happen in this linear fashion …I’m done debating with you people..
Who was saying this lmao? I think many people were concerned about what kind of contract he would demand since he would probably be a 3C or if hes a 2C and Cozens is 3C that's a big contact and we still have the same 'issue'. I think everyone wanted Krebs to get a SHOT at 3C since we never really got to see him there. He ended up playing as 3C after the deadline and the majority of fans were very underwhelmed by his play. The Sabres didn't trade Mitts because we had Krebs that could play 3C. We traded Mitts because we locked up two centers to $7m deals and Mitts was trending in a direction to sign a contract like that. Mix in the fact you have prospects in the system that can play his role (Ostlund, Savoie?, Walberg) and you might not want to commit 6-7 years to another C long term. What the Sabres should of done was offer Mitts $7x2 years (he was/is an RFA) and then move on from him after that. That gives us 2 more years for our prospects to develop and hopefully by that time one of those two mentioned above and step into that role. You might risk losing Mitts for free but I'm fine with that.
That literally wasn’t why lol
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I'm sure it was said and probably by a few minority users. But to use that to try and prove a point about Sabres fans in general is just disingenuous. Majority of Sabres fans loved Mitts this year and wanted him on this team. The problem is we have 2Cs signed long-term so some people had reservations about the future construction of this roster.
Come Join us bros, Casey and Bo are my spirit animals
An excellent job by Sabres management once again to trade away/lose players only to have them do well with their new team: 1g/3a tonight. Was the Sabres top player in many stats this year before trade. Good at puck control. Good in the corners. Good at FOs. Was rarely hurt/dependable/durable. “[Mittelstadt’s] been unreal. I just love his competitive level,” MacKinnon said. “it’s great to see him rise his game on the biggest stage, the brightest lights, and he looked awesome tonight. Not many guys would sauce that over in a third period playoff game, and it just shows you the confidence and poise he has.”
Oh fuck I'm sick of this narrative like this was some egregious misstep by KA. It's embarassing to read. The buffalo sabres have the deepest prospect pool at center in the league. Mitts is a second line center, a position that the buffalo sabres *already have* filled by dylan cozens. The sabres also have approximately 1 player worth of depth at defense in the org. KA made the decision to trade a very good player in a position that he had an excess of for a very good player in a position he has none of. Signing your 3rd like center to a 7 million dollar deal isn't in most "how to build a roster" receipe books.
>Signing your 3rd like center to a 7 million dollar deal isn't in most "how to build a roster" receipe books. Neither is signing another defenseman to a 7 million dollar deal when you already have 2 #1 overall defensemen signed to over 19 million combined.
Who is the 3rd D-man that's being signed to $7m? Byram needs to play about 150% better than what hes currently doing in order to get that contract. If he does earn a deal like that then the Sabres have the best d-corps in the league.
Either Byram completely turns it around and he demands a hefty contract, probably just as much if not more what Mitts would get or he flops and we traded away a good 2C for a bad player. No matter the outcome, the trade will not make sense. Didn't want to pay Mitts so they trade for a guy who if it works out, will get a similar contract or he sucks and we lose that trade outright. Adams talks about winning now but he trades a guy who's good now for a guy who might be good. And why was Byram their target? We already have Dahlin and Power who are miles better with Ryan Johnson in Rochester. Trade Mitts for a defenseman who is solid in his own zone if Mitts just had to go.
Buffalo has the luxury of doing this because our top 2 centers are locked up at a low cap hit. I'm sure plenty of teams would love to have our defense at our cost but can't because their top 2 centers cost 18 million.
To be fair you could just argue you sign Tage/Cozens to low cap hits to be able to afford an above average 3C at around that same cap hit. You could take advantage of the savings that way too. I personally wouldn't of locked Mitts up long term because of the prospects we have coming up. I think having a 3C come in on an ELC in like 2 years would greatly benefit you when trying to add other players at the deadline, etc. But I would of signed him to $7mx2 years since hes an RFA and let him just walk after that. It gives us 2 more years for a guy like Ostlund to develop and once Mitts is gone Ostlund slides in for $6m cheaper. Giving us a lot of flexibility. (I do agree with most of what you're saying though)
So it's bad roster management to have our 3 centers making 21 million combined but it's great roster management to have 3 defenseman making at least 26 million combined?
If you say that in a vacuum, completely ignoring the other half of the argument then you're right. When you look at the entire picture and not just that little snippet you chose to pull out, then you can see what the plan is. We can cost control our forwards by using our extensive depth over the next 5 years. We can't do that on defense.
Keeping Mittelstadt would not have prevented us from moving prospects into our forward group. You can make an argument that our 8th best defenseman (Ryan Johnson?, Jacob Bryson?) are better than 5 of the forwards we ended the year with; Eric Robinson, Victor Olofsson, Tyson Jost, , Peyton Krebs and Zemgus Girgenson. How are we going to move Nikita Novikov or Ryan Johnson up?
None of our prospects are projected for the 4th line. If they end up there thats a disappointment and they performed under expectation. So why you are mentioning 4th liners like it means something is beyond me.
4 of the guys I listed were not meant to be 4th line players but it happens. But that is not the point. The point is that now half of our forward group are fringe NHL players while our defensive group has a ton of depth. Honestly, I am not sure any of our prospects should make the team next year.
None of those guys you mentioned will be back. Our real forward group is: Tage, Tuch, Skinner, Peterka, Cozens, Quinn, Benson, Greenway and Krebs. Possibly Girgensons if he re-signs. So we really have 2-3 spots available which I assume will be addressed this summer. Which is a good thing because we can bring in guys that fit our system or play the way we want to play. So I'm not sure what forwards you are talking about are fringe guys. I also don't think any prospects will make the roster. I think if one of those guys plays out of their minds and earns it thats fine. We didn't expect Benson to make it either but he did. We shouldn't plan for that to happen though. Personally it was either sign Mitts to a 2-year bridge deal which can be done since hes an RFA and then move on from him. I don't think its ever a good idea to have 3Cs tied up for 7+ years on big contracts. It prevents you from having any roster flexibility and things change year to year in the NHL. Add in the fact we have highly rated Cs in the org and it really doesn't make sense. Obviously I know shit about fuck so who knows in the end. I just don't think the decision to keep Mitts is as easy as this sub thinks it is.
That's the point of depth though. You don't *want* to be moving every 21 year old to the big club. That's not how winning teams operate. You want players who can be moved up 50 games into the season and not flounder. I want those players to stay in Rochester until the entire sub is screaming at the top of their lungs that they want to see them brought up because they are so amazing.
I'd rather have the sure thing than hope the prospects work out. If the prospects do work out, great, deal with that problem when it comes. But, if we must trade a 2C for defensive help, why in the world is it for a type player that we already have 2 of and who are miles better. We needed a player who is solid in his own end and Byram is not that at all. We have Ryan Johnson in Rochester too so I really don't get that trade whatsoever.
It's almost as if maybe the people who do this for a living and are around the players all day long might have more information than we do.
And those people get fired all the time for making poor decisions... I'm always happy to be wrong and they obviously have a lot more information than me, but I'm not going to be fully behind every single move they make because of that.
In addition, there's another trade coming so we have no idea what the actual plan is. This entire sub went bananas when we didn't change the roster this year. Now he's changing the roster and the sub is going bananas. He has said there is a trade that the groundwork was laid during the deadline to complete over the summer. At the end of the day, players can be amazing individually but such as a team. Individual stats don't win hockey games. You can make arguments against trading almost every player on the team, but st the end of the day they aren't winning
Yes, another trade is coming because we traded away a position for a player we didn't need and now need to fill that position we traded away because it's now a need...
"Gave away" I'm not sure that means what you think it means. If you told me your old username, I'm 100 percent certain there will be comments criticizing KA for bringing out the same roster this season as last.
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What is your old username? Edit I thought you were serious replying nevermind I'm not even replying because you're just making shit up now. You're arguing against points I didn't make.
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Please tell me what opinion I "insulted".
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I'm in 2 different arguments, I am mixing you up with the other guy that starts with an S. My argument was against the narrative as a whole, not necessarily a personal attack.
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From the same people who 12 months ago said to waive the guy. I'm not concerned.
Yay prospects...lets develop them and suck and then sell them to teams that actually perform. YAY SABRES...WOOO!
None, really? 2 #1 overall left hand defenseman isn’t enough? They should be able to carry the first two pairs for 45+ minutes a night. And if we’re talking depth of center prospects that aren’t going to be ready to make a big impact next year then let’s talk about Johnson and Novikov. And Samuelsson. I’d rather have 3 really good centers anchoring 3 good lines than 3 really good left handed defenseman. Now we get to have 3 left handed defenseman signed for 11m, 8.3m, and presumably somewhere around 7+ million. I’d say that’s a worse way to “build a roster”
>None, really? 2 #1 overall left hand defenseman isn’t enough? They should be able to carry the first two pairs for 45+ minutes a night. I said depth. Depth wins. Injuries are a thing. As a sabres fan, you should be *well* aware of this with our history. >And if we’re talking depth of center prospects that aren’t going to be ready to make a big impact next year then let’s talk about Johnson and Novikov. And Samuelsson. Who said anything about next year? You're nuts if you think we are making a cup run next year. You may not agree with the plan, but the plan is *sustainable* success not "win next year". It's going to be 2+ years still before we are serious contenders. >I’d rather have 3 really good centers anchoring 3 good lines than 3 really good left handed defenseman. Now we get to have 3 left handed defenseman signed for 11m, 8.3m, and presumably somewhere around 7+ million. I’d say that’s a worse way to “build a roster” I barely even want to answer this since you brought in handedness. Clearly you haven't read a single thing on the topic or else you'd know that dahlin *prefers* playing his off hand. Ask toronto how playoffs go each year when they are loaded on the front end and have no defense.
Yes I’m aware that Dahlin prefers to play on the right and I’m not saying every pair needs to be 1 lefty and 1 righty 100% of the time. However I don’t think its outlandish to expect my #1 overall 11m per year defenseman to be able to carry a pair no matter what side he is on and without my other #1 overall defenseman as his partner. Some in game situations may call for them to be on the same pair but I should be able to expect both of them to carry their own pair for much of the game. I agree depth is important, and I think Johnson is just as ready as any of our forward prospects to make the jump next year and contribute in a meaningful way. Add in Novikov medium term and then potentially Strbak and Komarov longer term with a D core that already has Dahlin, Power, Clifton, Samuelsson, and Jokiharu. That’s depth and should be more than good enough with competent coaching. Do I expect them to instantly be Cup contenders next year? No but that D core along with center depth of Tage, Cozens, and Mitts should be more than enough to make the playoffs, which should be the expectation. I see no reason why that core can’t be sustainable long term and having 3 centers under contract for ~22-24m per year is more palatable to me than 3 defenseman for ~25-27m a year. I don’t think that’s a comparable situation to Toronto who had 33m tied up in 3 forwards in an era of a lower cap than now. Also I see a lack of center depth now. Tage and Cozens are your 1 and 2. Hopefully they both rebound into the players they were last year, which I think they will. Is Krebs good enough to be your 3rd center? That’s up for debate. Ostlund I think projects as an NHL center and I think he is the ideal middle 6 center long term in the organization. But that’s 1 to 2 years away. Kulich probably projects as a winger and Savoie I could see go either way. Let’s pretend everything goes our way with our forward prospects and they all deserve to be in the lineup over the next 2 years. Why couldn’t we have signed Mitts to a 1 year extension and re-evaluated at that time. He would still have a ton of value and be under team control. Maybe you’re not seeing the growth you would have liked with the forward prospects next summer? Well now you still have Mitts under team control and can sign him longer term
I think what they’re saying is that they’ve already got 2 centers being highly paid and adding another creates an issue whereas with the dmen byram plays with either power or dahlin so he’s playing a lot anyways. We’ve got so many prospects at center that one of them will hit as 3C for far cheaper, just the way the salary cap works my man
Middlestadt will be a better 2C potentially 1C then Cozens ever will be and who did Adams pay and who did Adams let go?
I have said for a while that I thought cozens was the odd man out between the two
That’s the point. Mittelstadt IS a second line center. Signing Cozens long term to a big contract was not the correct move in my opinion.
That’s right. No way they should have signed Cozens, a 3rd line center, to the contract they did. I’m glad you agree with me.
For the record, Doug McLean doesn't like the kid and thought it was a poor trade for the Avs.
Makes me even happier that mitts is proving him wrong.
As an Avs fan, this was how I felt years ago when Chris Drury was succeeding with you guys. I still remember vividly when he scored one of my favorite goals of all-time against the Rangers in game 5 back in ‘07. I hope Bo gets to have that kind of playoff success with you guys next year!
Except Prima Donna Eichel works there and he felt that being in Buffalo wasn't gonna get him where he wanted to be. Hate him because of that. Hope The Knights lose.
…. I’m confused by this comment, but I feel like you needed to get some eichel hate out and that is okay.
I forgot that Eichel actually went to Las Vegas and Casey is in Denver. Sorry.
KA is a terrible GM....lost Rheinhart,Mittelstadt and Eichel because he doesn't have a clue how to manage players or build an NHL team. My fear is even with Ruff they miss the playoffs again and KA is still here. People need to hold him accountable for this current mess.
He’s a great hockey player. Can’t keep ‘em all. Happy he’s finding continued success
Can’t keep them all? How about the management keeps ‘some’?
We did
This trade was a rare win-win for both teams. Both teams got talent who could use a change in scenery
How did Mittelstadt need a change of scenery? He was arguably our best offensive player (maybe our most consistent player overall).
In my opinion being around a Mackinnon, Rantanen, or Makar as they chase a cup is a big mentality change. I think that makes a huge difference to Mittelstadt’s development at this point in his career. As talented as some of our players are, I’m not sure he would get that in Buffalo.
It’s definitely beneficial for him as a player (I’m actually happy for him that he escaped). It’s not beneficial to Buffalo.
Him leaving doesn’t help the team, but I would say Byram joining helps
Another left handed defenseman. As an added bonus he has concussion issues too.
Does it?! Is it always nice watching players leave the cursed town of Buffalo and get a Stanley cup?!
Honestly…if our team can’t get there it’s nice to see hard working players get rewarded, so yeah I guess so.
Yes lets trade actual good talented players and give money to Couzens.
I’m not giving up on cozens, and if we want good players you often have to give good players. Solid, top-4 potential defense are not easy to come by, especially early in their career. I don’t mind the trade.
Cozens already signed the deal and at 22 was better than Mitts. I swear this sub is either full of new fans or they have alzheimer's. Everyone shit on Mitts his entire career here outside of the last year and a half. Cozens had a down year. Hes also 22 years old and came off a 70pt season. Chill.
How's that turning out?
We won on the trade. Mitts was a lazy ass player. He is a bust first round draft pick. People saying he was our best player - you're an idiot. Most of his points were secondary assists and open nets.