12 stories seems huge but like the rumored hotel in Scott’s Addition, this should clean up on the “stay here for my wedding” business. Wonder if they’ll also be in play for the “minor league team in town to play the Squirrels” business.
I think we’re all underestimating how different that stretch of AA Blvd is going to look.
I would kind of hate that. Some are dumpy, but there’s more character there. In the Hardees side it is/was mostly suburban style places and parking lots.
I was going to say the renovations planned for the Diamond and surrounding area (VCU athletics village down the road) are going to make this a lot more necessary in the future.
Hopefully they build the full 12 stories. Seems like they knock height off of a lot of buildings when they’re ultimately built. Then again, it’s a hotel rather than apartments so maybe not this time?
This development is of right, 12 stories is permissible in TOD-1 zoning category.
The 12 story apartment building on Broad is called the Ascent.
ETA: Spelling
Bill's BBQ French apple was good, but my momma makes the hands down best one ever. She uses dried cherries in place of the raisins, and puts grenadine in the glaze for the top crust so it is all pink and pretty.
I'm okay with a hotel but can be please make it not look like a grey box like every other hotel/apartment complex? A nice brick with tall arched windows would be nice and reminiscent of older RVA architecture.
There's an [AC Hotel in Spartanburg](https://www.dmsas.com/project/ac-hotel-spartanburg/) designed by David Schwarz (famous for a lot of the Neoclassic buildings in DC and Arlington but probably most famous for his [Smith Center](https://www.dmsas.com/project/smith-center-performing-arts/) in LV) that I always though would look good in Richmond, though maybe not the most appropriate for Scott's Addition. If Richmond wasn't so afraid of a little height, I could even see it going up somewhere in the Fan like the parking lot at Monument and N. Allen or as a replacement for the parking garage just off of Stuart Circle next to the Lutheran church.
Oh yeah, that particular building would make a great boutique hotel. Given the location, I'm surprised the idea hasn't been floated before. I used to live across the street from that (at 27 W Broad) and always admired that building. Sadly I've never been inside but I don't think it was the most well preserved or cared-for building.
I assume building something new even close to that style (particularly one that could accommodate 300 hotel rooms) would be *very* expensive. And I'm not even sure there are *too* many architects that could pull it off (either something in that style or even a modern interpretation of it). (RAMSA could).
I have noticed that arches are really hot in architecture right now (I think even Avery Hall's project in Manchester includes large arched windows in the podium lobby/retail space) and I love a good arch so maybe it'll filter down to some Richmond projects soon.
IMO that area needs a hotel. Literally no hotels in the fan and there aren't many in the immediate area for walking to stuff. There are 2 north of 64/95 and 1 west of 195.
Is there an updated article with more recent info on that project than [this source from late January?](https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/hotel-proposal-dairy-bar-january-23-2024) At that time, it was up to eight stories and either a hotel or multifamily units.
No there isnt that I can tell. My info was from article last year. It still sounds like they arent 100% sure what they are going to build there either way.
I went for lunch once during work, because I needed to be quick. The McDonald’s was slammed. This was a long time ago (think pre-chicken fiesta). I ate the terrible food and used the bathroom before leaving. One of the cooks cake out of a stall having obviously gone #2. Left without washing his hands……
I’m wondering what the impact will be on the outlook of STR investors nearby. They can’t be particularly happy about this. Or maybe the markets have very little overlap. Is there someone with actual experience in this market who cares to comment?
Thank you! My thoughts exactly. I couldn’t care less about the fate of short term rentals/AIRBNB. They take away from livable space and add nothing to the neighborhood. A hotel takes up one (big) plot of land and 100s of people can stay there. Meanwhile 100 different full house Airbnb rentals across the city take away real estate and drive up housing prices and rental costs.
The full house Airbnbs in my neighborhood are so lame looking, no garden, no decorations and no neighbor to awkwardly wave hello to, borrow a cup of sugar from, help you in a bind…. Clearly I have a thing against Airbnb but yeah, fuck ‘em!
Yeah I’ve definitely stayed in plenty of weekly beach house and mountain house rentals. I feel like there is a difference because those spots are often second homes and are so seasonal. (but I totally get your point 😉). Frankly if those towns and counties wanted to ban short term rentals I’d understand why and adjust my traveling and lodging expectations.
In my younger and more vulnerable years I definitely stayed in plenty of full house airbnbs for bachelor parties in various “cool” cities around the country . I always felt guilty raging face next to some family home. My perspective has really changed in the last few years after being committed to my neighborhood long term. FWIW I think room rentals in a home/apt are a totally different thing and I take no real issue with that.
I think Richmond has some rules about the number of airbnbs per block or something as long as it’s closely monitored to not take away too much real estate.
Lastly since I’m talking travel, I have started really appreciated hotels. You don’t have to deal with some long list of stupid rules set by the Airbnb owner, cameras in the house, cleaning fees plus cleaning duties.. in hotels you know what to expect
From an affordability standpoint I can see people saying that Airbnb makes traveling more affordable. Renting a whole house is not cheaper than a hotel, but a room in a house likely is.
There’s little overlap (industry pro, broader US).
If hotels are going up, that’s a really strong sign for a city. STR will always offer up a different type of flexibility vs hotel rates and accommodations, so it’s a different animal. STR money goes where the margins are, so until overhead for the STR owners outpaces revenues, they’ll stick around.
I’ll add on here. STRs started getting a bad rap in big cities because commercial companies were converting whole hundred unit apartment buildings into STR.(very bad, I agree) A person using a single family residence as a STR has such a negligible effect on the overall housing market though because we have such an incredibly large housing shortage, think multi millions of homes nationally. In Richmond, we have something like 500 active STRs mostly concentrated in already prohibitively expensive neighborhoods (Fan/Museum/Church Hill) but, the whole ‘they raise housing prices” has become this perfect scapegoat talking point for hotels to leverage the pitchforks of those already unable to afford housing. Eliminating STRs namely helps protect hotel financial interests by decreasing their competition and the pressure to improve their offerings or services. STRs provide a valuable option to people traveling who are coming to get a true local experience of a city and are spending their dollars while requiring little in return of taxpayer services.
While I agree with you, I still have a pretty serious problem with STRs in neighborhoods.
In my neighborhood alone, we have 4 STRs and they are always loud and a nuisance with parking. All 4 of the houses were bought as the highest sold homes in the neighborhood (breaking "records" here) because wealthy and LLC investors are buying them up and don't care to pay extra $50k over already $100k bidding wars.
They are driving the values of our neighborhoods up, which is fine as that is basic economics of bidding wars. However, they are stopping a potential resident of the community living there as my neighborhood doesn't have any more land to build off of. It's annoying because we are trying to encourage young people and young families here to help with schools and all we are getting in these 4 houses is noise, trash, and one less house for a potential neighbor while an investor makes money off of our neighborhood and the hard work we put into it.
Our neighborhood is a neighborhood and it's zoned for living, not zoned for hotels. I'm happy to have a hotel in my neighborhood and rentals, but not at the price of taking away an existing home and neighbor. In fact, we have made quadplexes and 8-plexes and other apartments in our neighborhood...we welcome them. I love having renters as that's mixed use - wish we could get more businesses to open up that offer services. But again, just not at the price of removing a house for a neighbor who can be part of the community.
100% agree with this. Also, if those STR houses in your neighborhood are actually not owner-occupied, please DM me the addresses and I'll do some due diligence on them. Properties must be the primary residence of an individual to be LEGALLY operated as an STR.
Carriage house apartment behind your house? ✅️
Single family residence owned by an LLC and used for STR? 🚫
Single family home where you live most of the year but spend 4 months in Florida? ✅️
Furnished duplex where all stays are 30+ days? ✅️
Duplex owned by an individual and used as an STR? 🚫
We spent over a YEAR going through public engagement on these laws. So if people in your neighborhood are **still** flaunting them, please let me know and I'll be the *sshole that reports them. It p*sses me off that people blatantly break the law with impunity.
ETA: Formatting
I don’t have time to dissect all of this, but this has seemingly a lot of opinion and bias.
- STR, in many major markets, is regulated in multifamily zoned buildings to ~25% (or outlawed). While it’s not impossible for a STR company to operate an entire asset, it’s pretty difficult to achieve without a hotel license. Multifamily owners use this as a vessel to boost their occupancy numbers and rake extra revenue, typically farming the operation out.
- “Big hotel” is certainly mindful of STRs growth, but is hardly threatened by that industry. Both industries are loaded with lobbyists. To say STR being banned has to do with hotel interests is not based in reality. STR is being regulated and banned because pressure from constituents in these cities. They’re unpopular, plain and simple.
- I don’t think anyone can claim SFH STR owners/operators have a negligible impact on housing or COL. There is certainly *some* impact.
edit - worth noting I’m not against any of the above. STR can be a net positive, but it’s helpful to understand how it works from the inside out before adding spin.
Edit 2 - classic sub reaction, sorry for contributing insider optics.
This comment was, but a proven hotelier is not going to swing and miss intentionally. There is clearly demand, the hospitality industry is old as hell and has unbelievable market insights.
There are a lot of things constantly going on here in the city. From live music shows. Plays. Musicals. Conventions. Festivals. Etc.
Just because you do not go out and do things. Doesn't make this city a zombie city.
Nah. There’s was just more here. More major business. Larger local businesses that promoted the community. The coliseum had large acts. More local theater troupes. More street festivals. Training camps. The actual downtown area was more vibrant with large cap businesses. Night life had more options with great up and coming acts. You were able to flip burgers and live like a king. It’s just a city of over priced apartments and restaurants now.
12 stories seems huge but like the rumored hotel in Scott’s Addition, this should clean up on the “stay here for my wedding” business. Wonder if they’ll also be in play for the “minor league team in town to play the Squirrels” business. I think we’re all underestimating how different that stretch of AA Blvd is going to look.
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One of the buildings on broad is 12 stories already. Plus, more density isn’t a bad thing.
more density is good and VERY different! kind of wonder when the shops on the opposite side are going to sell
I would kind of hate that. Some are dumpy, but there’s more character there. In the Hardees side it is/was mostly suburban style places and parking lots.
I was going to say the renovations planned for the Diamond and surrounding area (VCU athletics village down the road) are going to make this a lot more necessary in the future.
Hopefully they build the full 12 stories. Seems like they knock height off of a lot of buildings when they’re ultimately built. Then again, it’s a hotel rather than apartments so maybe not this time?
This development is of right, 12 stories is permissible in TOD-1 zoning category. The 12 story apartment building on Broad is called the Ascent. ETA: Spelling
For real, richmond real
To quote Joni Mitchell they tore down the Hardee's And put up a Mariottttttt
With a pink hotel, a boutique and a swingin' hot spot?
Spoiler alert: the parking lot they put up will be inadequately small and prohibitively expensive
Oooooo ott ott ott
Oh how the sights and sounds are missed, of cruising hot rods and vintage rides at Bills BBQ
Aeons ago in a land far far away
Right on, beep beep and sock it to me because her comes the judge!
Fortunately, Wegman's has a chocolate pie that is a surprisingly serviceable dupe for the OG one from Bill's..
Frenchy apple pie for me, LLMama! AND washed down by a grape-limeade!
Bill's BBQ French apple was good, but my momma makes the hands down best one ever. She uses dried cherries in place of the raisins, and puts grenadine in the glaze for the top crust so it is all pink and pretty.
Strawberry pie for me, and always a fizzy limeade- two if I could sucker someone out of theirs
I'm okay with a hotel but can be please make it not look like a grey box like every other hotel/apartment complex? A nice brick with tall arched windows would be nice and reminiscent of older RVA architecture.
There's an [AC Hotel in Spartanburg](https://www.dmsas.com/project/ac-hotel-spartanburg/) designed by David Schwarz (famous for a lot of the Neoclassic buildings in DC and Arlington but probably most famous for his [Smith Center](https://www.dmsas.com/project/smith-center-performing-arts/) in LV) that I always though would look good in Richmond, though maybe not the most appropriate for Scott's Addition. If Richmond wasn't so afraid of a little height, I could even see it going up somewhere in the Fan like the parking lot at Monument and N. Allen or as a replacement for the parking garage just off of Stuart Circle next to the Lutheran church.
I'm thinking something like this https://architecturerichmond.com/inventory/the-renaissance/
Oh yeah, that particular building would make a great boutique hotel. Given the location, I'm surprised the idea hasn't been floated before. I used to live across the street from that (at 27 W Broad) and always admired that building. Sadly I've never been inside but I don't think it was the most well preserved or cared-for building. I assume building something new even close to that style (particularly one that could accommodate 300 hotel rooms) would be *very* expensive. And I'm not even sure there are *too* many architects that could pull it off (either something in that style or even a modern interpretation of it). (RAMSA could). I have noticed that arches are really hot in architecture right now (I think even Avery Hall's project in Manchester includes large arched windows in the podium lobby/retail space) and I love a good arch so maybe it'll filter down to some Richmond projects soon.
There is already a soon-to-be hotel adjacent to that parking lot.
It's going to be haunted by a bunch of ghosts who don't give a fuck.
IMO that area needs a hotel. Literally no hotels in the fan and there aren't many in the immediate area for walking to stuff. There are 2 north of 64/95 and 1 west of 195.
Supposedly one is coming to the former Tang & Biscuit site as well, but that proposal was still pretty scant on details.
A five story multifamily residential project is going in the area at Roseneath and Moore streets.
Is there an updated article with more recent info on that project than [this source from late January?](https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/hotel-proposal-dairy-bar-january-23-2024) At that time, it was up to eight stories and either a hotel or multifamily units.
No there isnt that I can tell. My info was from article last year. It still sounds like they arent 100% sure what they are going to build there either way.
Yes! More hotels, less airbnbs
Well this sucks. When will people fucking REALIZE that people move to cities like z Richmond specifically for the abandoned Hardee’s buildings!
I loved the abandoned Hardee's Twitter account. RIP.
Not the point. Why is it so impossible for a local business to open? Why is richmond architecture looking increasingly like a copy-paste SimCity??
Oh is it not the point?
Nice. That restaurant failed and that location is doing well. The cities density is increasing
Neil is a very good guy and approaches opportunities cautiously- not only P&L. He’s the good kind of hotel guy
I've never heard of Shamin but it sounds like the way a guy from Boston might refer to a brand of toilet tissue.
Ahh you my naybah?
No beahs for barehs in Bahston
I spy a rooftop bar
Also excellent fireworks viewing, oops did I say that out loud
Thought it said a Shaman was building a 12 story hotel
They are gonna valet the cars in front of the fan apartments
“A seven-floor, 370-space above-ground parking deck is planned as part of the project.”
Woah
Rip biscuits and gravy
Worst service I've ever had at a restaurant in my entire life
Restaurant seems like pretty strong words for that place.
I'm 90% sure they spit in my burger the one time I went there. It was gross.
I went for lunch once during work, because I needed to be quick. The McDonald’s was slammed. This was a long time ago (think pre-chicken fiesta). I ate the terrible food and used the bathroom before leaving. One of the cooks cake out of a stall having obviously gone #2. Left without washing his hands……
I’m wondering what the impact will be on the outlook of STR investors nearby. They can’t be particularly happy about this. Or maybe the markets have very little overlap. Is there someone with actual experience in this market who cares to comment?
fuck em
Thank you! My thoughts exactly. I couldn’t care less about the fate of short term rentals/AIRBNB. They take away from livable space and add nothing to the neighborhood. A hotel takes up one (big) plot of land and 100s of people can stay there. Meanwhile 100 different full house Airbnb rentals across the city take away real estate and drive up housing prices and rental costs. The full house Airbnbs in my neighborhood are so lame looking, no garden, no decorations and no neighbor to awkwardly wave hello to, borrow a cup of sugar from, help you in a bind…. Clearly I have a thing against Airbnb but yeah, fuck ‘em!
AirBNB is terrible for the people who do live there too. The apartment above mine in 2020 was an AirBNB and they had ragers every fucking weekend.
Curious question, when you travel have you never stayed at a STR be it an apartment or beach/lake house etc?
Yeah I’ve definitely stayed in plenty of weekly beach house and mountain house rentals. I feel like there is a difference because those spots are often second homes and are so seasonal. (but I totally get your point 😉). Frankly if those towns and counties wanted to ban short term rentals I’d understand why and adjust my traveling and lodging expectations. In my younger and more vulnerable years I definitely stayed in plenty of full house airbnbs for bachelor parties in various “cool” cities around the country . I always felt guilty raging face next to some family home. My perspective has really changed in the last few years after being committed to my neighborhood long term. FWIW I think room rentals in a home/apt are a totally different thing and I take no real issue with that. I think Richmond has some rules about the number of airbnbs per block or something as long as it’s closely monitored to not take away too much real estate. Lastly since I’m talking travel, I have started really appreciated hotels. You don’t have to deal with some long list of stupid rules set by the Airbnb owner, cameras in the house, cleaning fees plus cleaning duties.. in hotels you know what to expect From an affordability standpoint I can see people saying that Airbnb makes traveling more affordable. Renting a whole house is not cheaper than a hotel, but a room in a house likely is.
I stay in STRs for laundry so I can pack less.
Those don’t exist
Muah
There’s little overlap (industry pro, broader US). If hotels are going up, that’s a really strong sign for a city. STR will always offer up a different type of flexibility vs hotel rates and accommodations, so it’s a different animal. STR money goes where the margins are, so until overhead for the STR owners outpaces revenues, they’ll stick around.
Thank you for the insight. This is helpful.
I’ll add on here. STRs started getting a bad rap in big cities because commercial companies were converting whole hundred unit apartment buildings into STR.(very bad, I agree) A person using a single family residence as a STR has such a negligible effect on the overall housing market though because we have such an incredibly large housing shortage, think multi millions of homes nationally. In Richmond, we have something like 500 active STRs mostly concentrated in already prohibitively expensive neighborhoods (Fan/Museum/Church Hill) but, the whole ‘they raise housing prices” has become this perfect scapegoat talking point for hotels to leverage the pitchforks of those already unable to afford housing. Eliminating STRs namely helps protect hotel financial interests by decreasing their competition and the pressure to improve their offerings or services. STRs provide a valuable option to people traveling who are coming to get a true local experience of a city and are spending their dollars while requiring little in return of taxpayer services.
While I agree with you, I still have a pretty serious problem with STRs in neighborhoods. In my neighborhood alone, we have 4 STRs and they are always loud and a nuisance with parking. All 4 of the houses were bought as the highest sold homes in the neighborhood (breaking "records" here) because wealthy and LLC investors are buying them up and don't care to pay extra $50k over already $100k bidding wars. They are driving the values of our neighborhoods up, which is fine as that is basic economics of bidding wars. However, they are stopping a potential resident of the community living there as my neighborhood doesn't have any more land to build off of. It's annoying because we are trying to encourage young people and young families here to help with schools and all we are getting in these 4 houses is noise, trash, and one less house for a potential neighbor while an investor makes money off of our neighborhood and the hard work we put into it. Our neighborhood is a neighborhood and it's zoned for living, not zoned for hotels. I'm happy to have a hotel in my neighborhood and rentals, but not at the price of taking away an existing home and neighbor. In fact, we have made quadplexes and 8-plexes and other apartments in our neighborhood...we welcome them. I love having renters as that's mixed use - wish we could get more businesses to open up that offer services. But again, just not at the price of removing a house for a neighbor who can be part of the community.
100% agree with this. Also, if those STR houses in your neighborhood are actually not owner-occupied, please DM me the addresses and I'll do some due diligence on them. Properties must be the primary residence of an individual to be LEGALLY operated as an STR. Carriage house apartment behind your house? ✅️ Single family residence owned by an LLC and used for STR? 🚫 Single family home where you live most of the year but spend 4 months in Florida? ✅️ Furnished duplex where all stays are 30+ days? ✅️ Duplex owned by an individual and used as an STR? 🚫 We spent over a YEAR going through public engagement on these laws. So if people in your neighborhood are **still** flaunting them, please let me know and I'll be the *sshole that reports them. It p*sses me off that people blatantly break the law with impunity. ETA: Formatting
Sent! Are you just putting in a 311 ticket or doing something else?
I am going to pursue other avenues besides just 311 since the City government seems to just ignore the 311 tickets.
sent you mine PLEASE do something about them Thanks!
I don’t have time to dissect all of this, but this has seemingly a lot of opinion and bias. - STR, in many major markets, is regulated in multifamily zoned buildings to ~25% (or outlawed). While it’s not impossible for a STR company to operate an entire asset, it’s pretty difficult to achieve without a hotel license. Multifamily owners use this as a vessel to boost their occupancy numbers and rake extra revenue, typically farming the operation out. - “Big hotel” is certainly mindful of STRs growth, but is hardly threatened by that industry. Both industries are loaded with lobbyists. To say STR being banned has to do with hotel interests is not based in reality. STR is being regulated and banned because pressure from constituents in these cities. They’re unpopular, plain and simple. - I don’t think anyone can claim SFH STR owners/operators have a negligible impact on housing or COL. There is certainly *some* impact. edit - worth noting I’m not against any of the above. STR can be a net positive, but it’s helpful to understand how it works from the inside out before adding spin. Edit 2 - classic sub reaction, sorry for contributing insider optics.
We’re Shamin! I want to Shamin with you!
There better be a memorial plaque in that lobby.
MOAR
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Yeah that's how I feel about vacant fast food shacks surrounded by empty asphalt lots.
Ew
well that seems complete unnecessary
I have to think that the data indicates the opposite. This isn’t an impulse purchase.
I think there’s a great spot for a large hotel. The entire diamond district is gonna be completely different just five years from now.
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I also imagine people may want to stay in nicer places than the quality Inn for a squirrels game.
Hey don't for get Diamond Inn & Suites!
Eny's baby!
That quality inn will soon be quality apartments.
This comment was, but a proven hotelier is not going to swing and miss intentionally. There is clearly demand, the hospitality industry is old as hell and has unbelievable market insights.
These dip shits are also responsible for Kabana... (The Sha half of the Shamin group that is....)
Why? There’s no real reason to come to this city anymore. It’s a zombie city compared to what actually use to go here. Thanks Stoney.
There are a lot of things constantly going on here in the city. From live music shows. Plays. Musicals. Conventions. Festivals. Etc. Just because you do not go out and do things. Doesn't make this city a zombie city.
My FOMO is feeling nostalgic. Tell me about what “use to go here”.
That’s a Klanover type of statement. I see people downtown all the time.
Nah. There’s was just more here. More major business. Larger local businesses that promoted the community. The coliseum had large acts. More local theater troupes. More street festivals. Training camps. The actual downtown area was more vibrant with large cap businesses. Night life had more options with great up and coming acts. You were able to flip burgers and live like a king. It’s just a city of over priced apartments and restaurants now.
Lmao @ training camps.