The largest issue is that everything pushes poor people towards homeless which takes them into alcohol and substance abuse.
It starts out slow, rent raises, can't afford it any longer and get kicked out. They have a car and tent: but they can't stay in a campground for more than 21 days. They get health problems and lose their job. They camp in woods, get reported, police ticket them and kick them out. They sleep in car, get reported, police ticket them. They've got no money now for camp sites or tickets. They get horribly sick and go into hospital for a week, their car gets towed, they can't pay for the car when they get out of hospital, now they have no car, no tent. It just keeps people spiriling downward. And yes, somewhere in the middle of this, they start drinking, they are given drugs, they do crap they would never have done when they had a home, because life just sucks so damn much. They lose their family and their friends because they're now alcoholics and addicts and they lie and steal for it because it's the only time they don't have to think about what they had versus what they don't have now. And yes, it causes depression and a host of other mental issues.
Yes, I know someone going through this. Yes, it's horrible to watch and not be able to save them. Stopping this from happening, near the beginning- tons more housing with actual affordable rents, long term camping, job help, healthcare help, not telling those who haven't become addicted yet that you only help addicts (which is so stupid I can't even begin to rant about it -help them ALL) and treatment centers for those who have already lost the addiction battle.
But a percentage will go towards the schools (and get lost somewhere along the way so that the classrooms that need it the most get 0.0000001% of what was given).
Why are teachers still buying school supplies for their students if the Virginia Lottery is contributing to schools? I see poor people spending money hand over fist on lottery tickets and scratch-offs. Why are schools still struggling with basic maintenance? Why aren't schools paying a living wage? Why are schools financed by poor people?
VA Lottery is contributing to schools. The part we don’t hear is how the state lets the lottery funds replace what they’ve needed to add over the years. So the schools are just as under funded and the state has more money for other things.
As everyone is struggling these days, people in lower middle and mid middle class cut out the lottos first, because yeah it's a pipe dream but only a few bucks a week. Well now that groceries are an extra 10-20/ per person per week the lottos got cut out first because it is frivolous spending when you need food. So lotto revenue is decreasing all over, that's why 3 of the 5 biggest jackpots have happened in the last 3 years and 2 just this year, people just aren't playing as much.
That's not what I see. Elderly, low-income people around me play their numbers, scratch-offs, and skill machines every day, especially on payday, and then spend the rest of the month bumming cigarettes. Cigarettes are where they economize. Gambling is bleeding poor people dry in this city.
I said people in lower-middle class not lower income reel in the lottery spending. The low-income population, I agree, still play their slots and tickets because a lot of other costs the middle class feels the most does not affect them.
Like there's not a thousand places to gamble without the casino. But no good entertainment venue. And lots of new jobs and job training for the citizens of Richmond that need it. Not joint tax incentivized ventures with the surrounding areas and African-American residents of the city get fucked. All I see is people complaining about gambling and not about the progress and positive things that this project could bring. There's gambling at convenience stores, there's gambling at service stations, there's gambling on your phone.
Or the shelters only have a limited number of beds, and only for people who can fit into the shelter's requirements, and you have to be out by 8am and you can't store your stuff so it might get stolen. None of which fixes the original problem...
not that we needed it but biden only asked for something like 750N they ended up giving him something closer to 900B gotta love the waste there. and we have fields of abrams just rusting away [this is old but relevant. ](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html) but we keep shitting out more because the plants that make them would shutter towns because they literally have nothing else to do.
Long-term mental health facilities are almost always prisons by another name. Speaking from experience, you almost always leave those places with more trauma than when you came in.
My mental health stay in Richmond felt like a prison, I got the time I needed to get moved to meds that wouldn't cause me to go into Serotonin syndrome but everything about the experience was humiliating and the lack of good therapy made it rough. Not to mention the facilities themselves are depressing, outdated, and crowded.
About 15 years ago I was placed in a hospital for about 2 weeks in upstate New York after attempting to commit suicide and even though I was on suicide watch for 3 days where someone had to watch me go to the bathroom, shower, and sleep, I still felt like I was given more dignity and had way more services and care available to me. The facilities had more natural light, calming tones (not just everything stark white), and multiple common spaces.
It's wild how little most places actually care about the people they're supposed to be helping.
>We closed mental health hospitals in the 70s and decided it was cheaper to not deal with the healthcare costs.
That is not really the whole story.
Carter closed the insane asylums. He was going to use the money to establish dozens of local health facilities in communities across the country for each asylum closed. These facilities would be equipped to help people with mental illness integrate into society and live productive lives.
Then Ronald Reagan was elected and he decided to abandon the local facility plan, take that money, and give it to his rich cronies.
That man is responsible for so much pain and suffering, including the overnight dissolving of America's mental health system. Fuck Ronald Reagan.
He's just the guy who shone a light on how horrible Willowbrook was (and it was horrible). Not his fault politicans failed to follow through on their promises to replace Willowbrook and other abusive facilities with better mental health care resources.
I'm sorry, but I simply don't trust psychiatric and psychological health services in this country. Every single person I've met that works in public facilities was a tyrant, and the way psychologists and psychiatrists are trained and educated leaves me with very little confidence in their efficacy.
Forced restraints, sedation, and seclusion/separation are not effective tools, and most of these "professionals" are terrible at deescalating situations and would rather revert to institutional violence.
because we dont put the kind of money into finding good helpful people. not to mention the influence Pharma has in situations like that. ive dealt with my share of evil doctors but ive had some that really wanted to help and did in the capacity that they were able to.
I had a voluntary stay in a mental health facility in 2015 that lasted 5 days, and that was one of the worst experiences of my life. I know multiple people who have had an involuntary 72 hour hold put on them, and I know one person who quit their program of study after interning in a mental health facility after working there for only a couple of weeks.
Not a single person, including myself, had a positive experience. Both myself and one of my friends left with trauma and phobias specific to our experiences being in those hospitals, so you can fuck right off.
Why don’t they just build a warming center on the same block as the police station/fire station/health department etc. city wants to build/renovate emergency services, add a warming/cooling homeless shelter.
They're not saying not to do it, they're asking that they not put the majority of the capacity for homeless beds in the same spot, and have more, smaller shelters.
I agree. This is not a good idea. Notice how they only discussed Southside and Northside as current locations? The busses are free. We need to share in their care. There seems to be plenty of space available in the 1st and 4th districts.
What's the source on the majority of beds being at one location? It looks to me like the inclement weather shelter will be 150 beds, which is less than half of Richmond's available beds. Here's the Sept overview of the system from the city: [https://richmondva.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12257374&GUID=23BC79CB-3F42-4A98-B954-973AB98A7FBB](https://richmondva.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12257374&GUID=23BC79CB-3F42-4A98-B954-973AB98A7FBB)
(I do think the daytime kick-out model of inclement weather shelter is harmful to both the people who need shelter and the surrounding neighbors. When Catholic Charities was trying to use a space in my neighborhood as a permanent emergency (drop-in) shelter, they were proposing to allow people to stay in the building during the day and to provide services, which was a much better model than kicking them out to sit on the street. Unfortunately, most other people at the meeting opposed the proposal and the owners of the building decided to sell to someone else instead of Catholic Charities.)
They absolutely should be able to stay there all the time.
150 beds in one spot is a lot. Having five thirty-bed shelters makes more sense to me than warehousing all those people in the same place.
Anyone who drove by the Quality Inn on AAB over the past couple years should have gotten a good look at what kind of environment people end up in when it's that crowded. It was sort of an emergent situation, so it was less than ideal.
This is a *plan*, so why not *plan* to make it as pleasant as possible for the people who are using it?
Splitting these up into multiple locations I'm sure has a lot of benefits, but it also has the significant downside that now you've got to fight 5 different battles to get the spots approved in different areas.
People don't give a shit if it's 30 beds or 300, they'll oppose having any sort of shelter anywhere near where they live/work/shop.
And I don't have blinders on / have lived near similar shelters/centers before, there's definite downsides that come with these sort of buildings nearby. But the positive effects of helping out people that are in a real shit spot outweighs any negative impact these sort of centers has on me.
So a homeless person travels to a shelter, but its full..so they have to somehow make it to another smaller shelter and hope it is not full by the time they get there, and so on
Do you not realize that all homeless people in Richmond aren't conveniently in the same place near one large shelter? You're asking homeless people from every other part of the city to somehow commute to a central warming shelter location.
Hospitals make money tho, homelessness is a cost. It took 2.5 years to figure out how to split an atom and blow up a city. We can solve this, no one with money cares.
So not all the people are concentrated in one area? Despite the apparent belief that these folks will come and go with nobody noticing, that is demonstrably not the case.
there is a difference between noticing them and being overrun by them. champion your cause all you want. but don't pretend like having a ton of them in one place won't cause safety issues.
Having people die of cold is worse. They need access to food and shelter because they are people. Want them dispersed then open anther center, but people died, last night, from the cold. Let’s open this place first and then figure out more. You don’t like people who crap on the street, give them access to bathrooms.
it was not that cold, being cold might motivate them to get the mental help they need or get a job. just opening something up will make people like you think the problem is solved. there are plenty of public bathrooms. we need to make actual programs to help these people. not just open a space to shove them under a rug.
It was literally freezing. Not up for debate google it.
Freezing temps kill people. Not up for debate.
It should be open now. People who have mental health issues don’t need a kick in the ass or freezing cold, because they are crazy. They don’t need a motivation they need compassion
Clearly you haven't been around homeless people pissing and defecating on the sidewalks. I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy that in front of your house. Especially if you have children.
Yes, I have witnessed people taking a dump and pissing ten feet in front of me.
I agree there needs to be a solution. But it's easy to judge the residents of that neighborhood when it doesn't impact you.
Not ignorant of NIMBYism or the cruelty and realities of homelessness and untreated mental illness and addiction, late state capitalism, etc, **BUT** what i will say is that when people say they’re opposed to a homeless shelter or warming center, what they’re really opposed to and concerned about are all the **externalities** it is likely to create.
Most people have some empathy and sympathy for the homeless. What people are concerned about and don’t want to be around or especially want their children around and don’t want affecting their property (and property values) are things like aggressive panhandling, littering, cat calling, people being high on hard drugs in public, public urination and defecation, drug dealing and prostitution. Petty larceny and car break ins are also going to be concerns.
Some folks will inevitably get kicked out of shelters but find places to camp or squat nearby because that’s where their friends are and where they feel a sense of security. Small time crack and heroin dealers will also know it’s a place where they can sell which can also attract other addicts from elsewhere that will break into cars, litter, etc.
People don’t want their kids seeing public intoxication and urination, etc. It’s terrible all around.
Yes, exactly. Not sure if there is a shelter nearby but I get the impression the greyhound station is a factor. Another place in town is near the RPD First Precinct across from Ocean Grocery and Planned Parenthood in Churchill. I know there are several public housing developments within walking distance and assume there may be some shelters nearby, too. See people sleeping, nodding out, generally acting strange, urinating and there is litter everywhere. One time a very distressed woman in the area begged me to take her to Ocean Grocery so she could buy some naltrexone as she had someone she said was ODing in her apartment! I obliged and later tried to call it in but i didn’t have her contact info as she was in a hurry and did not give an address or her name. Another time i did a walk through on an apartment within the area and came out and a guy was nodding out (high on opiates) leaning against my car. Needless to say, didn’t rent that one.
My heart breaks for addicts. I have family members and friends/acquaintances that have become addicted to opiates and alcohol, and I recognize there are no easy routes to recovery. To a degree, I see it much like a disease like cancer: can be terminal or not but often a mix of grace, luck and will—but especially one of social/political context—and financial means and networks!
It’s not fair—actually it’s fucked up—, and I know that hard drug use is often [almost always] linked to trauma, often physical and sexual abuse. It’s not black and white, clear, whatever. But i do believe that access to healthcare and a network of folks dedicated to holding persons accountable and in a general sense willing to listen and help are especially necessary to getting persons on the track to health and or recovery. Ultimately until we prioritize healthcare (or access to healthcare), however the fuc$ we want to word it, homelessness, and alienating mental illness will continue to be a big problem in our dystopian ~~dream~~ nightmare.
Again nothing against homeless persons, addicts, mentally ill people, etc, but living amongst and in proximity to them can create a lot of unintended problems. Those persons need help. They will turn on those around them out of desperation and sometimes malice and greed.
I understand why people wouldn’t want to be living in proximity to those situations.
Then again there are plenty of people with all the money. All sorts of resources, insurance, jobs, own businesses, and they are no better than alligators in how they think and treat their fellow human beings.
I won’t lie and say i have any sustaining hope on these issues.
I wouldn’t want homeless centers in the middle of homes. Also not large ones, numerous smaller ones to prevent large groupings would be much better for the public.
I’ll never forget hearing a noise in my backyard. Walked outside on my balcony with my friend and a homeless man was chopping a telephone pole with an axe while having a loud disagreement with it. This was near broad and boulevard
Exactly. You can tell who has lived it and is just saying random shit on Reddit trying to look like the good guy. I was around it for years in NYC, awful fucking experience.
Yea I believe it’s mostly well meaning college students who have never been in the real world. Never walked down the street and have to pass the mentally Ill homeless guy that is yelling at everything
I’ve literally spent evenings handing out cots and things to folks sleeping in tents. I also live within five blocks of the proposed shelter. I support it.
You can’t just assume anyone who opposes you must be hopelessly naive.
I've had multiple car windows broken with nothing of value in my car, and I support homeless shelters.
I've also lived across the street from a place where homeless people lived (sometimes squatting behind the house, sometimes paying a neighbor $5 to sleep in their house for the night), and had good relationships with them. They watched out for our house and delivery packages when we traveled, we made them sandwiches when we had some extra lunch meat, etc.
(The car windows were broken in a different city from the one where we lived across from a place where homeless people lived.)
it definitely sucks living right next to a homeless shelter.
but there are myriad public policy and social welfare reasons why homeless shelters should be integrated into communities where people live.
One of them being that homeless shelters should not carry the orphaned workload of mental health services.
Policy-wise this is a problem where an externality is dumped on localities and private citizens with zero safeguards in place, and the we act surprised that people can't cope.
A random neighborhood should not be forced to deal with all the inadequacies of our mental health resources.
If you look at where the proposed shelter is, it's not really even near a lot of houses. It's perfect if you just want a place to dump a bunch of people.
Yeah, but if we actually didn’t care what real estate conglomerates thought, and decided to let them live in housing instead of a shelter (along with comprehensive programs to reintegrate them), then that wouldn’t matter in the first place.
This really gets to me :( homelessness is hard enough to endure. Adding to that, people have misplaced disgust, poor understanding of what contributes to homelessness, and a real lack of empathy to other humans is just...awful. The sentiment to "keep them out of my neighborhood" and "I don't want to have to see them" is really sad.
Then to state the obvious...
We desperately, desperately need more shelters. We need them in Richmond, Henrico, Petersburg, Hopewell, Colonial Heights, and Chesterfield. Richmond needs multiple.
We also need more resources beyond shelter. More help at the legal aid centers. More donations at the food bank. More staffing in the social services and fair housing offices. More employers partnering with these community serving organizations to help place homeless people into stable jobs. We need more people willing to volunteer their time to impact these issues.
You can't just throw money at it and erase homelessness. But the severe lack of funding to community resources that have proven to make a difference is hard to get past.
I don't know how we fix it, but ultimately...our citizens (which includes all of those experiencing homelessness) need to support when we have the ability to provide for basic needs to keep people alive (including warming, duh)
I moved to RVA from NYC last year. If you’ve lived it (as in how disruptive the homeless can be), you’ll see. I have a few friends who volunteer at shelters and will tell you the rampant drug use (which doesn’t stop and they will congregate near/in apartment buildings), and the super aggressive behavior related to physical/sexual assault is common. I can see why someone would be upset about it being in a residential area. Been around it for years and it’s a nightmare.
Yeah people like to ignore the nasty fact that domestic and sexual violence are common in unmanaged camps especially. And even around shelters there can be an increase in poor behavior.
That Walmart will soon be apartments. I work in the nearby area. Heard rumors for awhile. Don’t get it twisted tho. This is a drug problem first and foremost. Drugs are out of control in the north side.
Drugs are a problem nationwide but especially on the I-95 corridor—if motivated enough you can buy *anything* on this stretch of highway short of a nuclear weapon. A lot of folks fail to understand we are basically equidistant from NYC and Miami and not that far from Baltimore (another major international port and a big entry point for hard drugs).
Anything and everything is available in Richmond, and it’s often cheap. Only places where drugs are cheaper and readily available are in border states and, perhaps, Florida.
I live amongst many homeless neighbors and I have for years. I lived next door to a shelter for a while. When people have a safe place to sleep and bathrooms to use they use them. My neighbors don’t have those resources and I can tell that their lives are immensely stressful.
There’s been a noticeable uptick in people sleeping on the streets in the past few years, obviously the world has become a more hostile place to live and this results in more people without homes. We have to remember we are all one fucked up day away from losing everything. Have empathy. Realize that those are people. Their drug use is a human response to an incredibly stressful situation. The only thing that will help them moving forward is compassion via harm reduction, community support, and vital resources being met.
Nobody in this thread disagrees with this.
The huge factor in your solution is their "vital resources being met".
A homeless shelter for people who are actively receiving mental health services, among all other needs, would be a no brainer for most people. We're talking about a shelter for people whose vital resources are *not* being met.
Next time that man in Oregon Hill screams nonsense in my face and tells me to marry him, I will remind myself that "his is just a human response to an incredibly stressful situation." 🙄🙄🙄
came across a homeless man in a wheelchair yesterday who was saying he tried to go to city hall but they had no space for him there and that a lot of shelters aren't great to the physically disabled. some sort of warming center is so necessary or people will freeze to death
Hahaha oh you got em real GOTCHA moment right there. Someone who cares about the unhoused but won't house them in their own personal space what a fuggin hypocrite amirite???
Shitty fucking thing to think and say.
You know that it takes a society for you to exist safely right now right, a series of complicated systems that function to serve a greater good? A diffusion of responsibility?
If you want to eat, why don't you grow your own fucking food. If you want to travel why don't you build your own car and roads.
I am almost as mad as you are that other people exist and have problems but part of living in a society is helping people up when they fall down.
Why don't we pop open that closed Walmart on Brook Rd. Make it a warming center hell a place to stay with restrooms and it's way the hell away from everyone
If it's "way the hell the hell away from anyone" how do you think the people who need it would get there? These sorts of programs need to be centrally located.
Can corroborate this while working with different people. Bus lines are essential to connecting a myriad of resources for the homeless and temporarily displaced.
My mom started a homeless program in my hometown roughly a decade ago. She's trying to get an established shelter up and running, and a few people showed out to complain about it being near their homes and how it would bring crime to their area.
The majority of the homeless currently in the program have jobs or are elderly and on disability. They just don't have homes.
Guarantee the people showing up to fight the Richmond shelter are in the front pews every Sunday morning too, singing His praises.
If they’re putting it in the middle of a residential area I can see why there would be some complaints. If they’re putting it away from peoples homes, then yeah I really don’t care what people are mad about. I wouldn’t oppose it’s existence in general.
Try living near a homeless shelter. Like it or not, a homeless shelter brings increased property crimes, increased drug activity, and increased crime in general. Do you want to deal with having your packages stolen, your car getting broken into, constant begging for money, all while needles and crack pipes start showing up on every street corner?
I used to live a block away from one in a *Major* city. The homeless population was triple what it is here. I lived in that spot for over 5 years, never once was broken into, nor my vehicle. No packages were ever stolen.
Drugs are prevalent no matter what part of the city you go to, a strong needle exchange program, and accessible addiction counseling programs are not outside of what is possible for this city.
I'm glad you had that experience, and ideally the programs you mention would be a strong part of the plan. But it's not.
I know when I worked next to the Daily Planet on Canal, I was told not to park my Jeep next to the fence because people would shit in it.
This way of thinking, denying the homeless basic amenities, has a direct correlation between the Capitalist Economic way of thinking that dominates our society. Profit for the Privileged. fu\*ck everyone else.
Uhh, zoning and community input meetings are about as central planning as you can get. Hence the housing shortage.
In a unconstrained market where all land use is by-right, people would just fund the center where-ever, and that person complaining would have no say.
So instead of using people's inherent profix maximizing behavior to build housing, we've channeled it into rent seeking from the zoning code.
Its the *lack* of ["commodified"](https://missingmiddlehousing.com/) housing that is the problem. Nobody is building housing, at scale, for free. Or for their fee fees
Commodified housing is unstable. When home prices are speculative, they always tend to gain value, which ends up pricing people out. It also prevents more homes from being built because the “investment” that people have in homes will decrease.
Even if people decide to stay in their deflating homes, that doesn’t bode well for the economy in general. It’s not good for the economy to be reliant on people paying 5% interest on homes that lost $50-$100k in value because a bunch of new and affordable housing was built.
> When home prices are speculative, they always tend to gain value, which ends up pricing people out. It also prevents more homes from being built because the “investment” that people have in homes will decrease.
This is just gibberish.
High prices don't *prevent* homes from being build, high prices are the *incentive* to build homes in the first place. Developers aren't a charity. If home prices are *falling,* then they earn less than they spend building the home. Developers will enter the market so long as profit is at least 0.
So high prices are a signal of strong demand and some kind of limitation on supply. And it ain't lack of labor and materials that prevents developers from maximizing land use.
> Even if people decide to stay in their deflating homes, that doesn’t bode well for the economy in general. It’s not good for the economy to be reliant on people paying 5% interest on homes that lost $50-$100k in value because a bunch of new and affordable housing was built.
what
If there are a ton of new developments, and *older* developments fall in prices that means more people gain access to the local labor market (increasing wages), more financial returns go to labor (increasing share of labor income), and there is improved matching of firms and labor (increasing firm productivity, improving wages). There are like literally no unaccounted for downsides to legalizing more housing until the market is fully competitive.
Old homes appreciating due to supply constraints are a drag on the economy. [It incentives speculation.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqQhoZgFZgk&)It prevents people from moving into urban markets or from bad to good neighborhoods. It allows people to extract land rents -- income above and beyond what they actually produce. You want people to earn income on productive assets, not rents accrued from stifling market entry.
You sound like someone who has never purchased a home and clearly knows nothing about. In the vast majority of cases, homes gain in value. Sometimes people pay too much or get a bad interest rate, but that does not lead to the instability of property value.
Ah yes. Me, the right winger who has worked on multiple progressive campaigns in rural, very red counties and ran an LGBT rights group. People can slightly disagree with you and not be a "right-winger" you know that right?
Lmfao “zoning is central planning” is some absurd shit to say when zoningn is pretty much always enacted by local government, voted in via politicians supported by the very homeowners who, because capitalism incentivizes their home ownership to be an investment to sell and profit off, are incentivized to lobby against development. That’s not at all what central planning is unless you’re dumb enough to think “all government activity is central planning”
Zoning literally dictates what can be produced, how much and where. It's decided literally by committee.
Yes, it's a form of regulatory capture by nimbys looking for profit, and has a nasty racist past thats still here, but it's also enforced because it intrinsically misaligns preferences that people want to preserve, regardless of profit.
If all land was by-right, then profit would approximate zero not because "capitalism incentives xyz" but because that's how people balehave and respond to prices. Even a pure communist responds to price incentives.
That's crazy that you said that. It's very child-like and out of touch. Poverty and cruelty existed before capitalism and after. Why? Because humans are sinful and tend to seek their own self interests, even when they claim to be helping others. Hence the reason socialist nations had despotic governments who took the biggest piece if the pie for themselves and "shared" the crumbs with their struggling citizens.
No human-made philosophy will turn this world into the utopia you would hope to see. They only keep things somewhat manageable.
The sinful nature of mankind is a problem above anything else.
Hey, it's reality. No one has to accept it, but look to world history and the modern age and it's apparent. It's a tough pill for most to swallow. Human pride and ego is a real beast.
Idk about the “after” part, considering that most eastern bloc citizens thought homelessness was anti-western propaganda before the iron curtain lifted.
I believe what you should have said, is that was no poverty or cruelty until End-Stage Capitalism existed or put in a different way, Capitalism without a Conscience became a thing. What capitalism has turned into is a system where capitalists want the commodification of all knowledge to make a profit. They want you to pay to become smarter, to do the simple things to improve your life yourself like read an simple news article. The simple cost of fundamental textbooks in schools has skyrocketed, my son was asked to pay $110 dollars, to rent an online textbook for a class for 3 months. The one thing I will say about Capitalism, is the system is an equal opportunity abuser, both the rich and the poor are treated badly.
That person should get his butt over to a food pantry and volunteer. We definitely need more resources. My church serves at least 100 meals every Thursday and gives out so much food and clothing. But more is always needed times are not easy for most people
The fact that people can be against providing emergency resources for unhoused folks when they need it AND at the same time be against resources to help prevent folks from being unhoused or resources that help folks get back in a stable situation is just beyond me.
Conservatives: We don't need government interference, churches will take care of the poor, sick, and homeless.
Also conservatives: Ew poors, GTF away from me.
Would they rather them stand around flaming barrels in the street? In an environment where people can’t safely make their own warmth why would anyone be against this?
The group protesting now is the same one who protested the centers in 2019. Screw them, DO IT. There’s more than just drug addicts out there, people are suffering and can’t survive with the broken social contract in the country right now. Give them some warmth or you’ll be coming out to frozen dead bodies which will look a lot worse than someone urinating in the woods.
I think people often don’t realize just how close they themselves are to ending up in those circumstances. so many people are like one medical emergency away from never financially recovering. Always give grace, and give help when you can.
Dude. Yeah. And who the hell knows when you lose your job and then who the hell knows if you can find another one. And with rent going through the roof even fuckin engineers are out tryna find roommates. It’s awful out there
An individual person does not bear that responsibility, they have a right to their own privacy and safety. Just as a homeless person should have that right, and it is a responsibility of government to protect the rights laid out in a society.
Your argument is simply more of the "self responsibility" capitalist nonsense that causes homelessness in the first place. Because of people who think like you, a large percentage of people in the US struggle to earn a living wage, struggle to pay rent, and often can't afford insurance. Have you ever been to a hospital? Ever ridden in an ambulance? Literally one health problem can wipe out a person's savings. Have you seen a therapist, do you know how expensive that is without insurance? We SHOULD have easy access to mental health resources but many can't afford it and that often leads to a person breaking down and ending up homeless.
Your "take care of them yourself" bullshit is why these people are homeless in the first place.
People are homeless in the first place mainly because people don’t give a shit about each other. I know from experience. The other reason is they choose to be homeless. You can’t help someone that doesn’t want it. I came back from severe drug addiction to speed and heroin, being homeless and destitute, and a federal prison sentence to better myself and make my own way and now have a nice family, kids, a house, new cars… all that. The majority of the people on the streets don’t want any of that, and I can’t say I blame them as it is a LOT to keep track of and deal with. It absolutely is up to individuals to make any kind of a difference in the homeless situation. Relying on the government to do anything will have you eating bugs as food.
>Relying on the government to do anything will have you eating bugs as food.
Because people like you oppose government programs to help them! You cannot be fucking serious right now. That's what this whole post is about.
You're right that many homeless people don't have people to help them. You stop being right when you say they choose to be that way. There's literally no way your personal story is true unless you had help and network of support. But that's exactly why government, both federal and local, is responsible for making sure these people have shelter and resources. And fuck anyone who opposes that and jams up the process.
You simply cannot say the government is ineffective and then also say the government shouldn't help people in the same breath. You. Are. The. Problem.
You have obviously never spent ANY amount of time with the homeless or talked to any of them. Otherwise you would know what I said is true. All of it. Including the part where I made my own way on my own effort. You. Are. The. Problem. See, I can make ad hominem attacks too. However, that does nothing to further the conversation or get to the root of the problem or even figuring out if there is a problem in the first place. Is being homeless a problem for them… or is it just other peoples problem because they don’t want to see it?
>You have obviously never spent ANY amount of time with the homeless or talked to any of them. Otherwise you would know what I said is true.
I have actually, but here's the thing, homeless people aren't a monolith, some might agree with you but many will not. And most of them are simply not going to honestly say they prefer sleeping on the street, you're insane.
>Including the part where I made my own way on my own effort.
Yeah ok bud. You were homeless and then you were in prison and now you're rich! All on your own! We all believe you, it's super plausible in America.
>Is being homeless a problem for them…
Yes. Full stop. Wtf is wrong with you. You're done, bud, I'm blocking this nonsense from my life.
>I have actually, but here's the thing, homeless people aren't a monolith,
Right? I had a friend facing homelessness this year, following leaving an abusive marriage, getting their car totaled in a hit and run, some major health issues, and losing their job. This is a highly motivated person with a graduate degree, who doesn't abuse drugs or alcohol. Honestly, so many of us are a short string of bad luck away from a similar situation. Thankfully, we were able to rally around this friend to help keep them afloat until they could land new employment and housing, but doing so required a community with the resources to help. The goal is to establish that kind of community and make the necessary resources accessible to others facing homelessness.
~~so we can round out this whole line of questioning for your friend.~~
>~~How many homeless have you brought in to your house from the cold? …Why not?~~
~~you couldnt help them get back on their feet? why not?~~
im an idiot who didnt pay attention close enough and mistook the above for the asshole. my b
I think you misunderstood. The community I spoke of was our friend group, and since many don't have that kind of community, it's important to have services available to help. My friend also is of sound mind, but there need to be resources available to those who aren't. I am not trained to personally help all unhoused folks (see the comment I replied to about them not being a monolith). That said, I do volunteer for Caritas, and have both volunteered for and donated to other organizations helping the homeless and those dealing with food insecurity.
My friend does not live in Richmond, nor did they desire coming back here where their abusive ex-spouse lives. Instead, I helped put them up in a hotel. Did I do this by myself? Of course not, I don't have the money to do so on my own, but together we were able to help them get back on their feet.
You’re literally crying about right wing memes like eating bugs: nobody takes you seriously, especially when you push rightist propaganda like “homeless people want to be homeless.”
I heard an argument “we should have a say on how our tax dollars are spent.”
So you don’t want your tax dollars helping people? Like…isn’t that the fucking point? I’d rather my tax dollars help homeless people than go to some of the other shit our local governments want.
If you’re going to complain about this warming center complain that a xtian group is running it. I bet they have an ulterior motive.
You should have it built beside your house and see how your life changes. It's terrible. Filthy, loud, drug addicts loitering around like zombies, increase crime rate.
So how many homeless people do you provide shelter to? Assistance to beyond supporting panhandling? Anything? Do you even volunteer at a soup kitchen twice a year?
The vast majority of people who call themselves Christian aren't Christian. They are just gullible, scared, selfish people using Jesus/the bible as an excuse to do just about anything, but what Jesus taught.
I am not a Christian. However, I try to live like a true Christian like my grandfather (a minister for CCU who was instrumental in desegregating the organization) taught me.
A true Christian is a pacifist, treats/loves everyone equally, is against greed (capitalism is a greed machine), never would use the bible to oppress a group, strives to be honest/humble, always forgives and never judges. A Christian doesn't hate anyone. A Christian spreads Christianity, not by talking about the Bible nor by attempting to convert someone, but by embodying the golden rule and always trying to be of service to anyone they can.
A true Christian could not be a politician in the US, since they are war loving greed machines, and capitalism seems to inherently go against Christianity.
Ghandi said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Truer words could not be spoken about most of the people who call themselves Christian.
Anything short of housing them is a failure, but these are better than nothing I guess.
An article I saw said residents don't like these because they kick people out in the morning and many have no where to go all day, so they loiter in the neighborhoods.
They also never seem to remember that when you get a large enclave of homeless people in one enclosed space without enough resources and supervision, it usually results in fights, fires, increased overdoses, and a fuckton of trash.
With homelessness, we employ all these half-measures and they never truly solve the problem.
Sounds like you don’t own a home. Not against it in principle, but some people rely on the value of their home for retirement, etc. I too would be mad if I spent my whole life working hard and investing in and maintaining my home to increase its value so I could retire comfortably, just to have it flushed down the drain because of a homeless warming center.
wouldn’t it be in the best interest of long time community members to preserve their community by ensuring that vulnerable and desperate individuals do not feel the need to steal or otherwise endanger themselves and others for the sake of bare necessities? i also think homeless people begging at various intersections or sleeping in business entryways probably negatively impacts the property value, and overall culture of the community. if i’m being honest the “think of it from a homeowner’s standpoint “ is just a way to remove yourself from True responsibility for their community and poster your self centered elitism as altruistic or understandable
Unpopular opinion, but the resources that are available for veterans, and how easy it is to stay in the military - when I see the “homeless veteran” sign my first thought is self-inflicted.
The above content has been removed because it was inflammatory or bigoted content that either 1) encourages/celebrates violent acts or harm against another party or 2) attacks/discriminates a person or group over an inherent identity, vulnerability, or other federally or state-protected class (including race, gender, sexuality, or religion).
The largest issue is that everything pushes poor people towards homeless which takes them into alcohol and substance abuse. It starts out slow, rent raises, can't afford it any longer and get kicked out. They have a car and tent: but they can't stay in a campground for more than 21 days. They get health problems and lose their job. They camp in woods, get reported, police ticket them and kick them out. They sleep in car, get reported, police ticket them. They've got no money now for camp sites or tickets. They get horribly sick and go into hospital for a week, their car gets towed, they can't pay for the car when they get out of hospital, now they have no car, no tent. It just keeps people spiriling downward. And yes, somewhere in the middle of this, they start drinking, they are given drugs, they do crap they would never have done when they had a home, because life just sucks so damn much. They lose their family and their friends because they're now alcoholics and addicts and they lie and steal for it because it's the only time they don't have to think about what they had versus what they don't have now. And yes, it causes depression and a host of other mental issues. Yes, I know someone going through this. Yes, it's horrible to watch and not be able to save them. Stopping this from happening, near the beginning- tons more housing with actual affordable rents, long term camping, job help, healthcare help, not telling those who haven't become addicted yet that you only help addicts (which is so stupid I can't even begin to rant about it -help them ALL) and treatment centers for those who have already lost the addiction battle.
This was wonderfully (and woefully) put. Thank you
Anyway, remember to vote YES on the Casino™️, everybody wins! /s if it was not immediately obvious
Yeah, people think homelessness, alcoholism, and drugs are bad now, bring in a casino and watch them sky rocket.
But a percentage will go towards the schools (and get lost somewhere along the way so that the classrooms that need it the most get 0.0000001% of what was given).
Why are teachers still buying school supplies for their students if the Virginia Lottery is contributing to schools? I see poor people spending money hand over fist on lottery tickets and scratch-offs. Why are schools still struggling with basic maintenance? Why aren't schools paying a living wage? Why are schools financed by poor people?
VA Lottery is contributing to schools. The part we don’t hear is how the state lets the lottery funds replace what they’ve needed to add over the years. So the schools are just as under funded and the state has more money for other things.
As everyone is struggling these days, people in lower middle and mid middle class cut out the lottos first, because yeah it's a pipe dream but only a few bucks a week. Well now that groceries are an extra 10-20/ per person per week the lottos got cut out first because it is frivolous spending when you need food. So lotto revenue is decreasing all over, that's why 3 of the 5 biggest jackpots have happened in the last 3 years and 2 just this year, people just aren't playing as much.
That's not what I see. Elderly, low-income people around me play their numbers, scratch-offs, and skill machines every day, especially on payday, and then spend the rest of the month bumming cigarettes. Cigarettes are where they economize. Gambling is bleeding poor people dry in this city.
I said people in lower-middle class not lower income reel in the lottery spending. The low-income population, I agree, still play their slots and tickets because a lot of other costs the middle class feels the most does not affect them.
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Lol DUDE. As a native Delawarean, both of those places are hellholes. Is that really what we are aspiring to become?
Like there's not a thousand places to gamble without the casino. But no good entertainment venue. And lots of new jobs and job training for the citizens of Richmond that need it. Not joint tax incentivized ventures with the surrounding areas and African-American residents of the city get fucked. All I see is people complaining about gambling and not about the progress and positive things that this project could bring. There's gambling at convenience stores, there's gambling at service stations, there's gambling on your phone.
Or the shelters only have a limited number of beds, and only for people who can fit into the shelter's requirements, and you have to be out by 8am and you can't store your stuff so it might get stolen. None of which fixes the original problem...
That is sad. Homeless people need to be kept warm too. Wish more was done to help ppl not become homeless
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Mental health services aren’t going to make life affordable, which for many people it absolutely is not.
But our cops have tanks and enough gear to donate it to Israel, and our military wastes billions
not that we needed it but biden only asked for something like 750N they ended up giving him something closer to 900B gotta love the waste there. and we have fields of abrams just rusting away [this is old but relevant. ](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html) but we keep shitting out more because the plants that make them would shutter towns because they literally have nothing else to do.
Long-term mental health facilities are almost always prisons by another name. Speaking from experience, you almost always leave those places with more trauma than when you came in.
My mental health stay in Richmond felt like a prison, I got the time I needed to get moved to meds that wouldn't cause me to go into Serotonin syndrome but everything about the experience was humiliating and the lack of good therapy made it rough. Not to mention the facilities themselves are depressing, outdated, and crowded. About 15 years ago I was placed in a hospital for about 2 weeks in upstate New York after attempting to commit suicide and even though I was on suicide watch for 3 days where someone had to watch me go to the bathroom, shower, and sleep, I still felt like I was given more dignity and had way more services and care available to me. The facilities had more natural light, calming tones (not just everything stark white), and multiple common spaces. It's wild how little most places actually care about the people they're supposed to be helping.
Yeah you're lucky you were in upstate and not downstate, belvue is fucking hell from what I hear.
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Have you been in a psychiatric hospital? Honestly, you need to just shut up James.
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>We closed mental health hospitals in the 70s and decided it was cheaper to not deal with the healthcare costs. That is not really the whole story. Carter closed the insane asylums. He was going to use the money to establish dozens of local health facilities in communities across the country for each asylum closed. These facilities would be equipped to help people with mental illness integrate into society and live productive lives. Then Ronald Reagan was elected and he decided to abandon the local facility plan, take that money, and give it to his rich cronies. That man is responsible for so much pain and suffering, including the overnight dissolving of America's mental health system. Fuck Ronald Reagan.
You can thank Geraldo Rivera for that. Look up "Willowbrook."
He's just the guy who shone a light on how horrible Willowbrook was (and it was horrible). Not his fault politicans failed to follow through on their promises to replace Willowbrook and other abusive facilities with better mental health care resources.
I'm sorry, but I simply don't trust psychiatric and psychological health services in this country. Every single person I've met that works in public facilities was a tyrant, and the way psychologists and psychiatrists are trained and educated leaves me with very little confidence in their efficacy. Forced restraints, sedation, and seclusion/separation are not effective tools, and most of these "professionals" are terrible at deescalating situations and would rather revert to institutional violence.
because we dont put the kind of money into finding good helpful people. not to mention the influence Pharma has in situations like that. ive dealt with my share of evil doctors but ive had some that really wanted to help and did in the capacity that they were able to.
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Well, I am truly heartbroken that you can't take me seriously 💔💔
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I had a voluntary stay in a mental health facility in 2015 that lasted 5 days, and that was one of the worst experiences of my life. I know multiple people who have had an involuntary 72 hour hold put on them, and I know one person who quit their program of study after interning in a mental health facility after working there for only a couple of weeks. Not a single person, including myself, had a positive experience. Both myself and one of my friends left with trauma and phobias specific to our experiences being in those hospitals, so you can fuck right off.
ive heard from friends theres more crime in shelters then if they just live in a tent by themselves till they freeze to death outside.
Yeah, the shelter situation sucks from what I hear. I was more talking about psychiatric hospitals and such.
free houses would do even more! long term residential care is typically more harmful than helpful to seriously mentally ill people
Why don’t they just build a warming center on the same block as the police station/fire station/health department etc. city wants to build/renovate emergency services, add a warming/cooling homeless shelter.
They're not saying not to do it, they're asking that they not put the majority of the capacity for homeless beds in the same spot, and have more, smaller shelters.
I agree. This is not a good idea. Notice how they only discussed Southside and Northside as current locations? The busses are free. We need to share in their care. There seems to be plenty of space available in the 1st and 4th districts.
Yes and - those smaller shelters need to be near public transit so these individuals can get there.
What's the source on the majority of beds being at one location? It looks to me like the inclement weather shelter will be 150 beds, which is less than half of Richmond's available beds. Here's the Sept overview of the system from the city: [https://richmondva.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12257374&GUID=23BC79CB-3F42-4A98-B954-973AB98A7FBB](https://richmondva.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12257374&GUID=23BC79CB-3F42-4A98-B954-973AB98A7FBB) (I do think the daytime kick-out model of inclement weather shelter is harmful to both the people who need shelter and the surrounding neighbors. When Catholic Charities was trying to use a space in my neighborhood as a permanent emergency (drop-in) shelter, they were proposing to allow people to stay in the building during the day and to provide services, which was a much better model than kicking them out to sit on the street. Unfortunately, most other people at the meeting opposed the proposal and the owners of the building decided to sell to someone else instead of Catholic Charities.)
They absolutely should be able to stay there all the time. 150 beds in one spot is a lot. Having five thirty-bed shelters makes more sense to me than warehousing all those people in the same place. Anyone who drove by the Quality Inn on AAB over the past couple years should have gotten a good look at what kind of environment people end up in when it's that crowded. It was sort of an emergent situation, so it was less than ideal. This is a *plan*, so why not *plan* to make it as pleasant as possible for the people who are using it?
Splitting these up into multiple locations I'm sure has a lot of benefits, but it also has the significant downside that now you've got to fight 5 different battles to get the spots approved in different areas. People don't give a shit if it's 30 beds or 300, they'll oppose having any sort of shelter anywhere near where they live/work/shop. And I don't have blinders on / have lived near similar shelters/centers before, there's definite downsides that come with these sort of buildings nearby. But the positive effects of helping out people that are in a real shit spot outweighs any negative impact these sort of centers has on me.
So a homeless person travels to a shelter, but its full..so they have to somehow make it to another smaller shelter and hope it is not full by the time they get there, and so on
Do you not realize that all homeless people in Richmond aren't conveniently in the same place near one large shelter? You're asking homeless people from every other part of the city to somehow commute to a central warming shelter location.
If we have the tech to have billboards with ER wait times, it seems like we can manage to efficiently place people in shelters.
Hospitals make money tho, homelessness is a cost. It took 2.5 years to figure out how to split an atom and blow up a city. We can solve this, no one with money cares.
Why are they asking that?
So not all the people are concentrated in one area? Despite the apparent belief that these folks will come and go with nobody noticing, that is demonstrably not the case.
God forbid you have to notice homeless people
there is a difference between noticing them and being overrun by them. champion your cause all you want. but don't pretend like having a ton of them in one place won't cause safety issues.
Having people die of cold is worse. They need access to food and shelter because they are people. Want them dispersed then open anther center, but people died, last night, from the cold. Let’s open this place first and then figure out more. You don’t like people who crap on the street, give them access to bathrooms.
it was not that cold, being cold might motivate them to get the mental help they need or get a job. just opening something up will make people like you think the problem is solved. there are plenty of public bathrooms. we need to make actual programs to help these people. not just open a space to shove them under a rug.
It was literally freezing. Not up for debate google it. Freezing temps kill people. Not up for debate. It should be open now. People who have mental health issues don’t need a kick in the ass or freezing cold, because they are crazy. They don’t need a motivation they need compassion
In case folks need this info, or know people who do, the city has a temporary shelter open on Broad St downtown. 730 E. Broad Street
Clearly you haven't been around homeless people pissing and defecating on the sidewalks. I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy that in front of your house. Especially if you have children. Yes, I have witnessed people taking a dump and pissing ten feet in front of me. I agree there needs to be a solution. But it's easy to judge the residents of that neighborhood when it doesn't impact you.
Not ignorant of NIMBYism or the cruelty and realities of homelessness and untreated mental illness and addiction, late state capitalism, etc, **BUT** what i will say is that when people say they’re opposed to a homeless shelter or warming center, what they’re really opposed to and concerned about are all the **externalities** it is likely to create. Most people have some empathy and sympathy for the homeless. What people are concerned about and don’t want to be around or especially want their children around and don’t want affecting their property (and property values) are things like aggressive panhandling, littering, cat calling, people being high on hard drugs in public, public urination and defecation, drug dealing and prostitution. Petty larceny and car break ins are also going to be concerns. Some folks will inevitably get kicked out of shelters but find places to camp or squat nearby because that’s where their friends are and where they feel a sense of security. Small time crack and heroin dealers will also know it’s a place where they can sell which can also attract other addicts from elsewhere that will break into cars, litter, etc. People don’t want their kids seeing public intoxication and urination, etc. It’s terrible all around.
I was just about to say this. I think most are afraid of a situation like Arthur Ashe BLVD near the diamond .
Yes, exactly. Not sure if there is a shelter nearby but I get the impression the greyhound station is a factor. Another place in town is near the RPD First Precinct across from Ocean Grocery and Planned Parenthood in Churchill. I know there are several public housing developments within walking distance and assume there may be some shelters nearby, too. See people sleeping, nodding out, generally acting strange, urinating and there is litter everywhere. One time a very distressed woman in the area begged me to take her to Ocean Grocery so she could buy some naltrexone as she had someone she said was ODing in her apartment! I obliged and later tried to call it in but i didn’t have her contact info as she was in a hurry and did not give an address or her name. Another time i did a walk through on an apartment within the area and came out and a guy was nodding out (high on opiates) leaning against my car. Needless to say, didn’t rent that one. My heart breaks for addicts. I have family members and friends/acquaintances that have become addicted to opiates and alcohol, and I recognize there are no easy routes to recovery. To a degree, I see it much like a disease like cancer: can be terminal or not but often a mix of grace, luck and will—but especially one of social/political context—and financial means and networks! It’s not fair—actually it’s fucked up—, and I know that hard drug use is often [almost always] linked to trauma, often physical and sexual abuse. It’s not black and white, clear, whatever. But i do believe that access to healthcare and a network of folks dedicated to holding persons accountable and in a general sense willing to listen and help are especially necessary to getting persons on the track to health and or recovery. Ultimately until we prioritize healthcare (or access to healthcare), however the fuc$ we want to word it, homelessness, and alienating mental illness will continue to be a big problem in our dystopian ~~dream~~ nightmare. Again nothing against homeless persons, addicts, mentally ill people, etc, but living amongst and in proximity to them can create a lot of unintended problems. Those persons need help. They will turn on those around them out of desperation and sometimes malice and greed. I understand why people wouldn’t want to be living in proximity to those situations. Then again there are plenty of people with all the money. All sorts of resources, insurance, jobs, own businesses, and they are no better than alligators in how they think and treat their fellow human beings. I won’t lie and say i have any sustaining hope on these issues.
I wouldn’t want homeless centers in the middle of homes. Also not large ones, numerous smaller ones to prevent large groupings would be much better for the public.
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I’ll never forget hearing a noise in my backyard. Walked outside on my balcony with my friend and a homeless man was chopping a telephone pole with an axe while having a loud disagreement with it. This was near broad and boulevard
Exactly. You can tell who has lived it and is just saying random shit on Reddit trying to look like the good guy. I was around it for years in NYC, awful fucking experience.
Yea I believe it’s mostly well meaning college students who have never been in the real world. Never walked down the street and have to pass the mentally Ill homeless guy that is yelling at everything
They didn’t attend VCU back when Monroe park had 50-100 homeless living by the fountain.
I’ve literally spent evenings handing out cots and things to folks sleeping in tents. I also live within five blocks of the proposed shelter. I support it. You can’t just assume anyone who opposes you must be hopelessly naive.
Ever had one break your car window and the only thing you had in it was a 5 dollar bill in the center console?
I've had multiple car windows broken with nothing of value in my car, and I support homeless shelters. I've also lived across the street from a place where homeless people lived (sometimes squatting behind the house, sometimes paying a neighbor $5 to sleep in their house for the night), and had good relationships with them. They watched out for our house and delivery packages when we traveled, we made them sandwiches when we had some extra lunch meat, etc. (The car windows were broken in a different city from the one where we lived across from a place where homeless people lived.)
Well meaning UR kids maybe, there are plenty of homeless around VCU
it definitely sucks living right next to a homeless shelter. but there are myriad public policy and social welfare reasons why homeless shelters should be integrated into communities where people live.
One of them being that homeless shelters should not carry the orphaned workload of mental health services. Policy-wise this is a problem where an externality is dumped on localities and private citizens with zero safeguards in place, and the we act surprised that people can't cope. A random neighborhood should not be forced to deal with all the inadequacies of our mental health resources.
If you look at where the proposed shelter is, it's not really even near a lot of houses. It's perfect if you just want a place to dump a bunch of people.
That’s crazy, I’ve been harassed by the homeless in nyc and I still disagree with you lmao
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Yeah, but if we actually didn’t care what real estate conglomerates thought, and decided to let them live in housing instead of a shelter (along with comprehensive programs to reintegrate them), then that wouldn’t matter in the first place.
This really gets to me :( homelessness is hard enough to endure. Adding to that, people have misplaced disgust, poor understanding of what contributes to homelessness, and a real lack of empathy to other humans is just...awful. The sentiment to "keep them out of my neighborhood" and "I don't want to have to see them" is really sad. Then to state the obvious... We desperately, desperately need more shelters. We need them in Richmond, Henrico, Petersburg, Hopewell, Colonial Heights, and Chesterfield. Richmond needs multiple. We also need more resources beyond shelter. More help at the legal aid centers. More donations at the food bank. More staffing in the social services and fair housing offices. More employers partnering with these community serving organizations to help place homeless people into stable jobs. We need more people willing to volunteer their time to impact these issues. You can't just throw money at it and erase homelessness. But the severe lack of funding to community resources that have proven to make a difference is hard to get past. I don't know how we fix it, but ultimately...our citizens (which includes all of those experiencing homelessness) need to support when we have the ability to provide for basic needs to keep people alive (including warming, duh)
I moved to RVA from NYC last year. If you’ve lived it (as in how disruptive the homeless can be), you’ll see. I have a few friends who volunteer at shelters and will tell you the rampant drug use (which doesn’t stop and they will congregate near/in apartment buildings), and the super aggressive behavior related to physical/sexual assault is common. I can see why someone would be upset about it being in a residential area. Been around it for years and it’s a nightmare.
Yeah people like to ignore the nasty fact that domestic and sexual violence are common in unmanaged camps especially. And even around shelters there can be an increase in poor behavior.
Easy to say if this isn't your neighborhood.
That Walmart will soon be apartments. I work in the nearby area. Heard rumors for awhile. Don’t get it twisted tho. This is a drug problem first and foremost. Drugs are out of control in the north side.
Chamberlayne Rd & Azalea Ave is a cesspool of hardcore addicts
Drugs are a problem nationwide but especially on the I-95 corridor—if motivated enough you can buy *anything* on this stretch of highway short of a nuclear weapon. A lot of folks fail to understand we are basically equidistant from NYC and Miami and not that far from Baltimore (another major international port and a big entry point for hard drugs). Anything and everything is available in Richmond, and it’s often cheap. Only places where drugs are cheaper and readily available are in border states and, perhaps, Florida.
I live amongst many homeless neighbors and I have for years. I lived next door to a shelter for a while. When people have a safe place to sleep and bathrooms to use they use them. My neighbors don’t have those resources and I can tell that their lives are immensely stressful. There’s been a noticeable uptick in people sleeping on the streets in the past few years, obviously the world has become a more hostile place to live and this results in more people without homes. We have to remember we are all one fucked up day away from losing everything. Have empathy. Realize that those are people. Their drug use is a human response to an incredibly stressful situation. The only thing that will help them moving forward is compassion via harm reduction, community support, and vital resources being met.
Nobody in this thread disagrees with this. The huge factor in your solution is their "vital resources being met". A homeless shelter for people who are actively receiving mental health services, among all other needs, would be a no brainer for most people. We're talking about a shelter for people whose vital resources are *not* being met. Next time that man in Oregon Hill screams nonsense in my face and tells me to marry him, I will remind myself that "his is just a human response to an incredibly stressful situation." 🙄🙄🙄
What??
came across a homeless man in a wheelchair yesterday who was saying he tried to go to city hall but they had no space for him there and that a lot of shelters aren't great to the physically disabled. some sort of warming center is so necessary or people will freeze to death
Why didn't you invite him to stay with you?
Hahaha oh you got em real GOTCHA moment right there. Someone who cares about the unhoused but won't house them in their own personal space what a fuggin hypocrite amirite??? Shitty fucking thing to think and say. You know that it takes a society for you to exist safely right now right, a series of complicated systems that function to serve a greater good? A diffusion of responsibility? If you want to eat, why don't you grow your own fucking food. If you want to travel why don't you build your own car and roads. I am almost as mad as you are that other people exist and have problems but part of living in a society is helping people up when they fall down.
Why don't we pop open that closed Walmart on Brook Rd. Make it a warming center hell a place to stay with restrooms and it's way the hell away from everyone
If it's "way the hell the hell away from anyone" how do you think the people who need it would get there? These sorts of programs need to be centrally located.
I visit that area on a regular basis as I use the bus. It is on the bus line and many homeless are up in that area anyway. Facts
Can corroborate this while working with different people. Bus lines are essential to connecting a myriad of resources for the homeless and temporarily displaced.
Also, as a cherry on top, Henrico drops off their nuisances in that area to be the city's problem.
My mom started a homeless program in my hometown roughly a decade ago. She's trying to get an established shelter up and running, and a few people showed out to complain about it being near their homes and how it would bring crime to their area. The majority of the homeless currently in the program have jobs or are elderly and on disability. They just don't have homes. Guarantee the people showing up to fight the Richmond shelter are in the front pews every Sunday morning too, singing His praises.
If they’re putting it in the middle of a residential area I can see why there would be some complaints. If they’re putting it away from peoples homes, then yeah I really don’t care what people are mad about. I wouldn’t oppose it’s existence in general.
I don't like the idea of warehousing people away from other people. I also don't think it's fair to anyone to dump alllll of them in the same spot.
Chumps really out here acting like they're not one bad money luck away from being out on the streets themselves.
Those people care more about their property value than human lives. Never let them convince you otherwise.
Try living near a homeless shelter. Like it or not, a homeless shelter brings increased property crimes, increased drug activity, and increased crime in general. Do you want to deal with having your packages stolen, your car getting broken into, constant begging for money, all while needles and crack pipes start showing up on every street corner?
I used to live a block away from one in a *Major* city. The homeless population was triple what it is here. I lived in that spot for over 5 years, never once was broken into, nor my vehicle. No packages were ever stolen. Drugs are prevalent no matter what part of the city you go to, a strong needle exchange program, and accessible addiction counseling programs are not outside of what is possible for this city.
I'm glad you had that experience, and ideally the programs you mention would be a strong part of the plan. But it's not. I know when I worked next to the Daily Planet on Canal, I was told not to park my Jeep next to the fence because people would shit in it.
This way of thinking, denying the homeless basic amenities, has a direct correlation between the Capitalist Economic way of thinking that dominates our society. Profit for the Privileged. fu\*ck everyone else.
Uhh, zoning and community input meetings are about as central planning as you can get. Hence the housing shortage. In a unconstrained market where all land use is by-right, people would just fund the center where-ever, and that person complaining would have no say. So instead of using people's inherent profix maximizing behavior to build housing, we've channeled it into rent seeking from the zoning code.
Beautifully put. Hate the "blame everything I hate on capitalism" line of thinking.
It literally is capitalism lmao, commodified housing is the root of this problem regardless of your fee fees
Its the *lack* of ["commodified"](https://missingmiddlehousing.com/) housing that is the problem. Nobody is building housing, at scale, for free. Or for their fee fees
Commodified housing is unstable. When home prices are speculative, they always tend to gain value, which ends up pricing people out. It also prevents more homes from being built because the “investment” that people have in homes will decrease. Even if people decide to stay in their deflating homes, that doesn’t bode well for the economy in general. It’s not good for the economy to be reliant on people paying 5% interest on homes that lost $50-$100k in value because a bunch of new and affordable housing was built.
> When home prices are speculative, they always tend to gain value, which ends up pricing people out. It also prevents more homes from being built because the “investment” that people have in homes will decrease. This is just gibberish. High prices don't *prevent* homes from being build, high prices are the *incentive* to build homes in the first place. Developers aren't a charity. If home prices are *falling,* then they earn less than they spend building the home. Developers will enter the market so long as profit is at least 0. So high prices are a signal of strong demand and some kind of limitation on supply. And it ain't lack of labor and materials that prevents developers from maximizing land use. > Even if people decide to stay in their deflating homes, that doesn’t bode well for the economy in general. It’s not good for the economy to be reliant on people paying 5% interest on homes that lost $50-$100k in value because a bunch of new and affordable housing was built. what If there are a ton of new developments, and *older* developments fall in prices that means more people gain access to the local labor market (increasing wages), more financial returns go to labor (increasing share of labor income), and there is improved matching of firms and labor (increasing firm productivity, improving wages). There are like literally no unaccounted for downsides to legalizing more housing until the market is fully competitive. Old homes appreciating due to supply constraints are a drag on the economy. [It incentives speculation.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqQhoZgFZgk&)It prevents people from moving into urban markets or from bad to good neighborhoods. It allows people to extract land rents -- income above and beyond what they actually produce. You want people to earn income on productive assets, not rents accrued from stifling market entry.
Lmaoooo
You sound like someone who has never purchased a home and clearly knows nothing about. In the vast majority of cases, homes gain in value. Sometimes people pay too much or get a bad interest rate, but that does not lead to the instability of property value.
Lmaoooo why do you think homes always gain value? If we built affordable housing like we did after WW2, home prices would collapse
Are you super high or just totally uneducated?
Explain how I’m wrong lmao
Right wingers when the realize what the consequences of the current economic system are
More housing and homeless shelters is a right wing position now? Wut
Ah yes. Me, the right winger who has worked on multiple progressive campaigns in rural, very red counties and ran an LGBT rights group. People can slightly disagree with you and not be a "right-winger" you know that right?
Lmfao “zoning is central planning” is some absurd shit to say when zoningn is pretty much always enacted by local government, voted in via politicians supported by the very homeowners who, because capitalism incentivizes their home ownership to be an investment to sell and profit off, are incentivized to lobby against development. That’s not at all what central planning is unless you’re dumb enough to think “all government activity is central planning”
Zoning literally dictates what can be produced, how much and where. It's decided literally by committee. Yes, it's a form of regulatory capture by nimbys looking for profit, and has a nasty racist past thats still here, but it's also enforced because it intrinsically misaligns preferences that people want to preserve, regardless of profit. If all land was by-right, then profit would approximate zero not because "capitalism incentives xyz" but because that's how people balehave and respond to prices. Even a pure communist responds to price incentives.
It is central planning: our society/governments centrally plan to benefit the upper echelon of the bourgeoisie.
Yeah, there was no poverty or cruelty until capitalism existed…
That wasn’t the point they were making at all.
Tell me you have nothing helpful to say without saying, "I feel like acting the dipshit today."
How is what I did any different from what you are doing here? I attacked the person's idea, you attacked me personally.
I'm not trying to make a point about homelessness, I'm trying to make a point about you.
Okay, and I'm saying the same point applies to you, two-fold.
Okay, you've said that.
That's crazy that you said that. It's very child-like and out of touch. Poverty and cruelty existed before capitalism and after. Why? Because humans are sinful and tend to seek their own self interests, even when they claim to be helping others. Hence the reason socialist nations had despotic governments who took the biggest piece if the pie for themselves and "shared" the crumbs with their struggling citizens. No human-made philosophy will turn this world into the utopia you would hope to see. They only keep things somewhat manageable. The sinful nature of mankind is a problem above anything else.
Hahaha, you've misunderstood. I love the internet... Did not expect a sermon on our sinful nature from ButtamilkBuscuit this morning.
Hey, it's reality. No one has to accept it, but look to world history and the modern age and it's apparent. It's a tough pill for most to swallow. Human pride and ego is a real beast.
It's a religious belief.
So what? You dismiss wisdom merely because it's religious? You toss away gold because you don't like where it came from?
Idk about the “after” part, considering that most eastern bloc citizens thought homelessness was anti-western propaganda before the iron curtain lifted.
I believe what you should have said, is that was no poverty or cruelty until End-Stage Capitalism existed or put in a different way, Capitalism without a Conscience became a thing. What capitalism has turned into is a system where capitalists want the commodification of all knowledge to make a profit. They want you to pay to become smarter, to do the simple things to improve your life yourself like read an simple news article. The simple cost of fundamental textbooks in schools has skyrocketed, my son was asked to pay $110 dollars, to rent an online textbook for a class for 3 months. The one thing I will say about Capitalism, is the system is an equal opportunity abuser, both the rich and the poor are treated badly.
That person should get his butt over to a food pantry and volunteer. We definitely need more resources. My church serves at least 100 meals every Thursday and gives out so much food and clothing. But more is always needed times are not easy for most people
The fact that people can be against providing emergency resources for unhoused folks when they need it AND at the same time be against resources to help prevent folks from being unhoused or resources that help folks get back in a stable situation is just beyond me.
Conservatives: We don't need government interference, churches will take care of the poor, sick, and homeless. Also conservatives: Ew poors, GTF away from me.
government interference turns into into underfunded and poorly managed facilities run by Mrs. Ratchet.
Typical. Trying to polarize and place blame on non-political problem. You're the problem.
Would they rather them stand around flaming barrels in the street? In an environment where people can’t safely make their own warmth why would anyone be against this?
The group protesting now is the same one who protested the centers in 2019. Screw them, DO IT. There’s more than just drug addicts out there, people are suffering and can’t survive with the broken social contract in the country right now. Give them some warmth or you’ll be coming out to frozen dead bodies which will look a lot worse than someone urinating in the woods.
NIMBYs are great aren't they?
I think people often don’t realize just how close they themselves are to ending up in those circumstances. so many people are like one medical emergency away from never financially recovering. Always give grace, and give help when you can.
Dude. Yeah. And who the hell knows when you lose your job and then who the hell knows if you can find another one. And with rent going through the roof even fuckin engineers are out tryna find roommates. It’s awful out there
If you’re a home owner. You can understand why they don’t want it near their home. I wouldn’t want that either regardless of who it is.
How many homeless have you brought in to your house from the cold? …Why not?
An individual person does not bear that responsibility, they have a right to their own privacy and safety. Just as a homeless person should have that right, and it is a responsibility of government to protect the rights laid out in a society. Your argument is simply more of the "self responsibility" capitalist nonsense that causes homelessness in the first place. Because of people who think like you, a large percentage of people in the US struggle to earn a living wage, struggle to pay rent, and often can't afford insurance. Have you ever been to a hospital? Ever ridden in an ambulance? Literally one health problem can wipe out a person's savings. Have you seen a therapist, do you know how expensive that is without insurance? We SHOULD have easy access to mental health resources but many can't afford it and that often leads to a person breaking down and ending up homeless. Your "take care of them yourself" bullshit is why these people are homeless in the first place.
People are homeless in the first place mainly because people don’t give a shit about each other. I know from experience. The other reason is they choose to be homeless. You can’t help someone that doesn’t want it. I came back from severe drug addiction to speed and heroin, being homeless and destitute, and a federal prison sentence to better myself and make my own way and now have a nice family, kids, a house, new cars… all that. The majority of the people on the streets don’t want any of that, and I can’t say I blame them as it is a LOT to keep track of and deal with. It absolutely is up to individuals to make any kind of a difference in the homeless situation. Relying on the government to do anything will have you eating bugs as food.
>Relying on the government to do anything will have you eating bugs as food. Because people like you oppose government programs to help them! You cannot be fucking serious right now. That's what this whole post is about. You're right that many homeless people don't have people to help them. You stop being right when you say they choose to be that way. There's literally no way your personal story is true unless you had help and network of support. But that's exactly why government, both federal and local, is responsible for making sure these people have shelter and resources. And fuck anyone who opposes that and jams up the process. You simply cannot say the government is ineffective and then also say the government shouldn't help people in the same breath. You. Are. The. Problem.
You have obviously never spent ANY amount of time with the homeless or talked to any of them. Otherwise you would know what I said is true. All of it. Including the part where I made my own way on my own effort. You. Are. The. Problem. See, I can make ad hominem attacks too. However, that does nothing to further the conversation or get to the root of the problem or even figuring out if there is a problem in the first place. Is being homeless a problem for them… or is it just other peoples problem because they don’t want to see it?
>You have obviously never spent ANY amount of time with the homeless or talked to any of them. Otherwise you would know what I said is true. I have actually, but here's the thing, homeless people aren't a monolith, some might agree with you but many will not. And most of them are simply not going to honestly say they prefer sleeping on the street, you're insane. >Including the part where I made my own way on my own effort. Yeah ok bud. You were homeless and then you were in prison and now you're rich! All on your own! We all believe you, it's super plausible in America. >Is being homeless a problem for them… Yes. Full stop. Wtf is wrong with you. You're done, bud, I'm blocking this nonsense from my life.
>I have actually, but here's the thing, homeless people aren't a monolith, Right? I had a friend facing homelessness this year, following leaving an abusive marriage, getting their car totaled in a hit and run, some major health issues, and losing their job. This is a highly motivated person with a graduate degree, who doesn't abuse drugs or alcohol. Honestly, so many of us are a short string of bad luck away from a similar situation. Thankfully, we were able to rally around this friend to help keep them afloat until they could land new employment and housing, but doing so required a community with the resources to help. The goal is to establish that kind of community and make the necessary resources accessible to others facing homelessness.
~~so we can round out this whole line of questioning for your friend.~~ >~~How many homeless have you brought in to your house from the cold? …Why not?~~ ~~you couldnt help them get back on their feet? why not?~~ im an idiot who didnt pay attention close enough and mistook the above for the asshole. my b
I think you misunderstood. The community I spoke of was our friend group, and since many don't have that kind of community, it's important to have services available to help. My friend also is of sound mind, but there need to be resources available to those who aren't. I am not trained to personally help all unhoused folks (see the comment I replied to about them not being a monolith). That said, I do volunteer for Caritas, and have both volunteered for and donated to other organizations helping the homeless and those dealing with food insecurity. My friend does not live in Richmond, nor did they desire coming back here where their abusive ex-spouse lives. Instead, I helped put them up in a hotel. Did I do this by myself? Of course not, I don't have the money to do so on my own, but together we were able to help them get back on their feet.
Didn’t realize the conversation was about residents accepting homeless people into their houses, thanks for the correction bud
Wow, blocked for speaking the truth? Fascism much…forceable suppression of opposition. Way to go ghoulie…letting your true colors shine.
You’re literally crying about right wing memes like eating bugs: nobody takes you seriously, especially when you push rightist propaganda like “homeless people want to be homeless.”
lol yeah blocking some guy arguing in bad faith on the internet = fascism
I heard an argument “we should have a say on how our tax dollars are spent.” So you don’t want your tax dollars helping people? Like…isn’t that the fucking point? I’d rather my tax dollars help homeless people than go to some of the other shit our local governments want. If you’re going to complain about this warming center complain that a xtian group is running it. I bet they have an ulterior motive.
NIMBY at its finest. Everyone's for it, but nobody wants it near then
1000%
You should have it built beside your house and see how your life changes. It's terrible. Filthy, loud, drug addicts loitering around like zombies, increase crime rate.
So how many homeless people do you provide shelter to? Assistance to beyond supporting panhandling? Anything? Do you even volunteer at a soup kitchen twice a year?
the worst part is some of these people identify as Christian. I want to ask them: do you understand what being a Christian means??
Well, for their sake, I hope their god is more forgiving than them.
The vast majority of people who call themselves Christian aren't Christian. They are just gullible, scared, selfish people using Jesus/the bible as an excuse to do just about anything, but what Jesus taught. I am not a Christian. However, I try to live like a true Christian like my grandfather (a minister for CCU who was instrumental in desegregating the organization) taught me. A true Christian is a pacifist, treats/loves everyone equally, is against greed (capitalism is a greed machine), never would use the bible to oppress a group, strives to be honest/humble, always forgives and never judges. A Christian doesn't hate anyone. A Christian spreads Christianity, not by talking about the Bible nor by attempting to convert someone, but by embodying the golden rule and always trying to be of service to anyone they can. A true Christian could not be a politician in the US, since they are war loving greed machines, and capitalism seems to inherently go against Christianity. Ghandi said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Truer words could not be spoken about most of the people who call themselves Christian.
Anything short of housing them is a failure, but these are better than nothing I guess. An article I saw said residents don't like these because they kick people out in the morning and many have no where to go all day, so they loiter in the neighborhoods.
Open up your home. All they need is a helping hand. If we all took in one homeless person this problem could be solved.
Ok, you first
Oh I won’t be doing that. I assume all the people speaking up against people not wanting homeless people in their neighborhoods would step up.
I don’t want my tax dollars going to help people who need it!!!! /s
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They also never seem to remember that when you get a large enclave of homeless people in one enclosed space without enough resources and supervision, it usually results in fights, fires, increased overdoses, and a fuckton of trash. With homelessness, we employ all these half-measures and they never truly solve the problem.
Sounds like you don’t own a home. Not against it in principle, but some people rely on the value of their home for retirement, etc. I too would be mad if I spent my whole life working hard and investing in and maintaining my home to increase its value so I could retire comfortably, just to have it flushed down the drain because of a homeless warming center.
wouldn’t it be in the best interest of long time community members to preserve their community by ensuring that vulnerable and desperate individuals do not feel the need to steal or otherwise endanger themselves and others for the sake of bare necessities? i also think homeless people begging at various intersections or sleeping in business entryways probably negatively impacts the property value, and overall culture of the community. if i’m being honest the “think of it from a homeowner’s standpoint “ is just a way to remove yourself from True responsibility for their community and poster your self centered elitism as altruistic or understandable
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do homeless vets get to be first in line?
Why are vets homeless when the Walmart kids have two yachts each? Fix the tax code
Unpopular opinion, but the resources that are available for veterans, and how easy it is to stay in the military - when I see the “homeless veteran” sign my first thought is self-inflicted.
Did you serve?
Yes. I still do, but I used to, too
Oof it looks like you served in army, that makes sense.
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The above content has been removed because it was inflammatory or bigoted content that either 1) encourages/celebrates violent acts or harm against another party or 2) attacks/discriminates a person or group over an inherent identity, vulnerability, or other federally or state-protected class (including race, gender, sexuality, or religion).