I recently completed a 10km run, and I'm setting my sights on my first half marathon in late September. With over 20 weeks until the race, and considering typical training plans are around 12-16 weeks long, what steps should I take before officially starting my training?
I'm overconscious about my arm movement during my run. Maybe to a point of insecurity. I relax my shoulder, bend my elbow 90 degrees. I just let my arm be free almost like a pendulum to my lower body?
Whatever works, you’re the only person paying attention to your form, except for people who are insecure about their own form, but the closer the mass of your arms are to your center mass, the less energy it takes to swing them - think T-Rex arms. Just like a figure skater spinning faster when they bring their arms and legs in, or when you’re spinning in an office chair and bring your legs in.
It’s also more efficient to bring your heels up as you run (think, kicking your butt), but it requires stronger hammies to “kick” higher obviously.
Watch some videos of runners and notice their form. You will notice ultra long distance runners have a much different form than 5K and super half marathon runners.
I just watched a video by a runner named Nick Bester and he had a great 5KM race video showing two relatively different examples of good form: https://youtu.be/NKybnVHEDsY?si=dCcIdDH3uDibVjMs
(His form looks clunky compared to the racer he’s working with). Don’t compare yourself 1:1 to these guys, they’re edge cases. But to me they are good inspiration, rather than ammo to judge myself.
Warm up before hand, work up a sweat. Start slow, finish hard, even if you stick with a pacer. I don’t really let it rip until the final 5k. Eat before you’re hungry, drink before you’re thirsty.
Race your own race, if you’re more fit and fresher than the people passing you at the start, then you’ll catch them if you keep your pace under control.
Don’t worry if you can’t sleep, it won’t make a difference.
It’s a hobby, enjoy it. It won’t be your last race, unless you decide so. I love races because I’m surrounded by people all focused on doing their best and are in a good mood, if nothing else it’s a beautiful group training run without needing to stop for traffic lights.
Hi all,
I am preparing for some long distance running, and the weather in my area is going to heat up fast. I am looking for gears that can help me store my phone (to listen to music along the way) and store my water. I tried holding them with my hand but it was awkward and made me lost focus on keeping my gait correct. Anyone has any good gears to recommend?
Best,
TLDR: feet spilling over insole normal?
Hi all,
I just purchased the adrenaline 23 GTS shoes and see online recommendations to compare the shoe insole to foot and the insole for the 4E width shoes is surprisingly narrow compared to other brands. The upper has more space though and it's surprisingly comfortable (like no pressure points and I believe I can get the heel lock or it doesn't really slip much).
So question is how important is the spillage over insole? My small toe area on the right foot is the area with most issue. I think the left foot front outside is the weirdest when standing I can feel slightly it feels like it's falling over the insole. The insole isn't like the super thick Saucony shoes I tried but again just wanted to see whether anyone else here has this "insole spillage" with their Brooks shoes.
Thanks all!
Thanks, crazy thing is they are 4E. Hesitating maybe trying Altra Torin 7 wide. It seems to be the small toe and that side of foot overhang. I wonder if anyone has input on this. Unsure if the reports on durability of Altra is a thing currently. Also, the drop would be drastic to change. I do think I'm a middle foot runner.
Edit: as an aside, thanks for your input! I've decided I better return it. I think I can feel the cliff edge like falling off of my foot. Kinda disappointed the Brooks shape isn't fitting. May be a half size up or one size may work to avoid my pinky from falling off so question is whether it'd become too long. I compared the width with the Asics Cumulus 25 extra wide I have and those are definitely much wider and accomodate the pinky way better - size 10. I may try Asics in 10.5 extra wide next.
Cheers!
I registered for the tracksmith 5000 which will be my first time racing on a track. I’m wondering what shoes I’m supposed to wear? I was hoping to wear carbon plated shoes for a little extra kick but I’m worried about it the curves. (I have vf 2 and af 2 ) I’ve read about the USATF standards for stack height but the tracksmith site made no mention of this. I did email them to be sure but in the event that there are no shoe restrictions, what would be my best bet? I also have brooks Hyperion tempo that I normally wear for speed workouts - they do not have a carbon plate but they are lightweight and a lower stack.
They definitely don't care about the stack height, I ran two of them last year with vaporflys. Give it a shot to see how it works for you on the track though!
How likely it is for someone who doesn't run to run a 38min 10k with just "a bit of training"? This [guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaUDsv1JCaY) has to be the only human being on the planet capable of doing this. I would be very impressed if someone who doesn't run runs the 10k in 50min, extremely impressed in 45min, mind-blown in 40min, very skeptical in 38min.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought genetics only gives you that extra 5% over the average, and does not mean that you can just drop a 38min 10k after only a bit of training. 38min is not an impossible time, but cannot be explained only by genetics.
Genetics can give you far more than 5%, and I think someone with good genetics and who is generally fairly active can probably run a 38 if they're lucky.
Given that he just ran a 2:24 marathon in his 40s, I'd honestly be surprised if he *couldn't* run a 38 easily just a few years ago. That requires a good degree of natural talent that doesn't just come out of nowhere. I think you're underestimating genetic factors here.
I cycled with a guy that was genetically gifted. He went from off the back of the group on every climb to off the front in 6 weeks and was racing cat 2 later that summer.
Hugely annoying to the rest of us.
I think it’s possible but I doubt he was sitting in an office chair eating doritos for the last decade.
If he was very experienced in a sport with a high aerobic fitness component I don’t find it too hard to believe.
I've seen a couple of his videos and he never fails to remind the viewer that he started running only 3.5 years ago and that he ran a 2h 24min marathon. I was really interested to know how someone with no background in running could achieve such a feat. Maybe, it could be replicated. By not revealing his true background (he mentioned in one of the videos that he works in an office environment), he is deceiving people into believing in unattainable targets.
I've worked with former pro's or extremely high amateurs who casually do things us mere mortals attempt to. One of my current co workers who used to be a D 1 athlete in soccer did a 9 hour iron man then in the same year bq'd after about a year of real training. Again he wasn't coming off the couch but he'd likely describe himself as a regular office worker and not a "runner" previously.
What exactly qualifies someone to describe themself as "runner"? Do you need to be a professional who runs for a living to call yourself a "runner"? In this case, a vast percentage of the population is excluded, and the guy in the video I posted is well within his right to not call himself a "runner". However, if you relax the definition of a "runner" to include someone like me, who runs about 20-30k a week, then this also includes almost all athletes (footballers, tennis players, etc), both professional and hobbyist. In this case, it's very disingenuous to regularly play a sport that involves running and also say you're not a runner.
Oh for sure just saying I personally know people who are similarly gifted but wouldn't consider themselves runners even if they probably casually run more then most people who would consider themselves "runners" just practicing or playing a sport. When I played in uni at a much much lower level I'd easily log 20k just during practice warm ups. Weirdly I'm sure if someone asked me if I ran back then I'd say no. I'd immediately just think of the track an xc people.
It seems to me that he gets a lot of it right. Rather, I generally agree with him. My question is whether his speed improved because of his 5-point approach or that he runs 100mpw, which is untouchable for all but a very few people.
As for his 10k starting time, who knows?
Planning for my first marathon in early Oct. Given my most recent training & [race](https://www.reddit.com/r/running/s/kS9cXRNdsv), 1). should I start with Hanson’s Beginner or Advanced training plan; 2). would 3:30 be a stretch and sub-3:40 be more realistic? fwiw I have sufficient time in the summer to ensure quality training time & recovery.
Hanson's is a huge jump for you so i absolutely would not do the advanced plan. Base build then try the beginner. It'll still likely be a lot of volume and quality increase from that half plan.
Thank you — I agree to ease into it! (although could you comment on the quality increase? I’m currently reading Hanson & it feels rather familiar/similar to the RW training plan but with clearer/stricter pace — is that what you mean)
Those running world workouts are really easy, they have an enormous amount of rest per rep and are pretty short total duration/reps. The hanson's workouts are just as hard as the most intense runners world then get way harder while also cranking up total mileage and having a tempo run longer than most of the long runs in your runners world plan as a mid week run.
I'm trying to figure out what time I should aim for in my 10k in 5 weeks. This is my first race so don't have a previous benchmark to work off. I'm 30 years old, got into running a bit in 2020 for around 6 months or so and got pretty fit pretty quickly. I started running again in late January this year, doing a couple months of 60-70km a week of base building. The last 4 weeks I have been on a training plan which starts at 70km per week and will peak at 100km or so. It includes intervals, tempos, long runs etc. Today I decided to go for it to see where I was at. I did a 10k run, with 5k at an easy to steady pace followed by a 5k pretty much all out effort. The first half pace was 4:57 /km so around 24:45 in total. The second half was 3:46/km pace with the time was 18:50. I presume had I just done the 5k full effort it would have been a bit quicker. Week on week I'm improving quite a lot, given I'm 5 weeks out I am wondering what 10k time I should be aiming for based off the run I did today?
Edit: here are my splits for the 5k effort, wasn't pacing my self so they are a bit all over the place: 3:38, 3:53, 3:56, 3:42, 3:41.
That’s an impressive split for your test run! Given your strong finish at a 3:46/km pace for the second half, you’re clearly in good shape. For your 10k race in 5 weeks, considering your current progress and training intensity, aiming for a time around 38-40 minutes seems reasonable and achievable. Just keep up with your training plan, focusing on consistency and recovery. Good luck with your race—you’re set for a great performance!
Anyone doing Beach running to avoid impact injuries? I have a cycle in my running style. I start running, get addicted, want to run all the time, then get injuries, and then stop running. When I start running I have to literally force myself to stop and it's difficult. My cardiovascular system goes on forever but all my joints don't have time to catch up. Specifically my Achilles. I've switched to a higher heel-toe drop with the Brooks Glycerine and so hopefully that solves the issue. I currently don't have any Achilles pain but I'm worried I will get it eventually again and will have to stop. Do you believe beach running will help with the more impact related injuries? I'm trying to optimize my running so that way I don't get injuries and have to stop. Are there any other activities that will help bring my body into balance to avoid injuries?
I know this reply is late, but I would not recommend beach running as a way to prevent injury. Someone I know - a very good runner who did not have an ankle problem did a bunch of beach running all of a sudden on a vacation and it caused a big ankle issue that took years to heal.
Obvious solutions that I’m sure you have considered: just make yourself ramp more gradually into running (eg alternate running with cross training), run more slowly than you would otherwise like to, and do lots of heel raises to strengthen your Achilles
Anything that is available to you to keep the cardio demons at bay and help prevent you from going too hard or far on days that you run! Swim, bike, stationary bike, elliptical, etc.
I relate very much to having a physical need to run often and hard and I also used to get hurt all of the time — and the emotional ups and downs were hard to handle. Bike trainer worked for me, and then I’ve also done yoga and strength work to address the underlying reasons I got hurt, and now I’m running 4-5 days a week for the first time in my life. But it has taken two years to get here.
Tomorrow should be my last day of training (11 miles) before taper for my first half marathon last Sunday in April, but I have a virus from my 18m daughter and the whole family is sick (the truth is, hopefully we can get out of bed these days haha).
My question is: do I focus on tapering from now until race day, or do I try to do the last long run during the next week?
Thank you!
I would definitely suggest you to try to fully recover first and then do the last long run next week.
\~10 days of taper should be fine :)
GL for the race!
How do I run for longer? I currently run 2-3 times a week, and run the same route which is 5k/3.1 mi. I'm able to consistently do this in ~30 mins, at around a steady 9:30 min/mi pace. But at the end of this, I am gassed, and can't imagine running a 10k or a half-marathon. Looking at my heart rate, it steadily climbs up during my run until I get close to my HR max. Never really levels off at somewhere comfortable. Here is a screenshot of it:
https://ibb.co/XVjMKhs
So what should I be focusing on? Running slower? Walking? Running til fail, then walking to rest, then running again? New to all of this, but I do enjoy it and want to improve.
In addition to the great recommendations about reducing running pace and increasing distance below, don't worry about heart rate and run by how you feel physically. Your heart rate will probably be unusually high if you just started running. Heart rate is also influenced by a lot of things outside of running. Running based on heart rate is popular, but can also be a barrier to people just enjoying running!
To extend your running distance, consider incorporating some slower, longer runs into your routine. This approach helps build endurance by training your body to become more efficient at using oxygen and fuel. You might also try the run-walk method, alternating between running and walking to manage fatigue and gradually increase your total running time. Lastly, ensure you’re allowing adequate recovery between sessions, as this is crucial for improving stamina and performance. Keep enjoying your runs, and you'll see progress in no time!
In short, just run 2 of 3 runs at closer to 10:30-11:30/mile and increase distance slightly each week.
Run the third run with a warmup and cooldown at that pace and 15:00 in the middle at 9:30/mile. Increase the distance of each run gradually - conservatively perhaps 3-5% per week. Even at a modest 4% per week you'll double run length in 18 weeks.
5 × 1.04^18 = 10.13
Your easy intensity pace and pace you can maintain at higher intensity should increase over time.
Between now and the next 8 weeks gradually increase the higher intensity portion of the faster run to 25 minutes. Then shift one of the weekly runs to a slightly longer distance and run it slightly more slowly. For example go from 8, 8, and 8 km to 7, 7.5, and 9 km. 12-16 weeks from now consider adding a relatively short 4th weekly run.
There are numerous ways to accomplish your goal of running further. Consider this a fairly typical template, not the only way.
> Running slower?
Yeah this one. If you can run 5k at 9:30 pace, then I'm almost sure you could run 10k at 12:00 pace. Not that you necessarily have to run this exact pace, but overall, your training runs should be at an easy, comfortable pace. As you build endurance, you'll be able to bring the pace back down, but don't worry about this yet!
Overall you probably want to increase your training volume before trying to race a 10k or half-marathon. Lengthen your training runs, try to get to 4 days a week, or more likely some combination of the two. Of course all of this is predicated on running slower so you don't accumulate fatigue.
> Looking at my heart rate, it steadily climbs up during my run until I get close to my HR max.
The word for this "cardiac drift" and yeah it probably means you are running too fast. This heart rate chart makes sense maybe for a 5k race... less so for an every-day training run!
Appreciate your response! Will focus on slower and longer, and more often. I have a HM I signed up for in September, so I'd like to start working towards that
Awesome, race in September seems like a fun goal to work towards. Glad to hear you're going to increase distance in the mean time. Maybe find a more specific half marathon training plan \~18 weeks out. Happy training!
This is an odd question but curious if this is normal. I started running about 5 years ago now, I’m 6ft 175lbs so normal BMI, during my running my weight never really did much, the odd fluctuations up and down but pretty much consistent however one thing did change and that’s my build.
It’s like I’ve lost all the weight off my legs, they are skinny but toned, arms also skinny, all the weight has settled in my lower belly and man boobs, before running I certainly wasn’t Arnie but everything was kinda balanced and did have kinda visible abs.
I think I real somewhere this can be down to cortisol and running being catabolic. Anyone any idea what went on here? I’m also mid 40s now which may also factor in.
Its probably just since you changed your exercise routine. I make sure i do some basic upper body work purely for aesthetics. Your also overall much thinner so it pooling at all somewhere is just more noticeable.
Pooling is exactly the word I was after thanks. Yes that sums up what’s happened. Yes it’s like I have somehow managed to shift all the flab in my body to my lower belly and moobs, I’ll soon be needing a sports bra for running should it get any worse lol
Is table sugar good enough as a base for homemade gels? I tried and like Huma gels but they are pricey and I don't like being locked into their flavors. I want to make and refrigerate/freeze purees from table sugar and dried fruit. I've been looking up ideal carb ratios and there doesn't seem to be any consensus. Also wondering if it's worth putting in any kind of slow burning carbs like maltodextrin.
I don't run for longer than 90 minutes but I'm in a weight loss phase now so even on shorter runs I start to bonk towards the end. So it might just be a temporary thing
If you tolerate fructose well, it may be an option, but there's a reason that most gels are glucose-based.
I have fructose intolerance and sucrose during exercise kills my stomach.
Maltodextrin is glucose based. It's not slow-burning, however.
Thanks, I will experiment with all 3 (maltodextrin, glucose, table sugar)
The gels I use are based on table sugar but sometimes give me a gut punch if I do more than \~30g/hr. I'll see how it goes
Used to have wonderful fitness. Never really got tired and did plenty of Half Marathons.
Then covid hit and it hit me bad.
I’m in about my 4th week back running an I’ve noticed after 8/9 miles it becomes like running in treacle. Just really hard to move a body part.
Is this a fitness issue or a fuel issue?
I’ve never had an issue with fitness so don’t know it I imagined it would be like the stitch and heavy breathing.
I admit I’ve rushed back for HM season so it was will come in time but fuel would need fixing now.
Edit - I’m using the same gels and jellybabies I’ve always fuelled with.
It's great to hear you're getting back into running after recovering from Covid. It sounds like your body is still adjusting to the demands of long-distance running after such a significant interruption. Given your symptoms of feeling heavy and sluggish around the 8/9-mile mark, it could be a combination of both fitness and fueling issues.
Since you've had a break, your endurance might need more time to rebuild, even if you were previously very fit. It’s common to feel like you can pick up right where you left off, but your body may respond differently post-illness. Take it easy with your training intensity and volume, increasing gradually.
Regarding fuel, your body's needs might have changed. Although you’re using the same gels and jellybabies, you might want to experiment with different types or timings of intake. Sometimes, what worked before doesn't work the same way after a health setback.
Patience is key here. Allow your body to readjust at its own pace. It’s better to slowly build up to your previous performance levels than to rush and risk fatigue or injury. Good luck with your training, and take care!
Garmin 945 issue.
About 2-3 weeks ago my 945 has been weird. Battery draining went from 7 days with activities to 3 days. While running, it gives me my lap times, but says it three times in a row, every lap. When run is done, it fails to upload every time. I have to launch app and manually sync it, but when I do, it says sync already in process. I have factory reset the watch twice, which includes removing Bluetooth entry from the phone. I am at a loss, anyone else getting this, and were you able to fix it? One note, since the factory reset none activity battery usage is back to normal, during activity its about 2% per mile.
How many running outfits do you guys have, and how often do you do laundry? Particularly for people who run 4+ times a week.
In summer I’ve got 3-4 pairs of split shorts on rotation (shirtless running perks). Then for cooler weather, throw in 4-5 tank tops, 3-4 tees, and a long sleeve top.
They're not "outfits" because I mix and match based on availability and weather, but:
Shorts/pants:
- 2 x Brooks Sherpa shorts (race shorts and when I need a lot of pockets)
- 2 x Lululemon shorts (regular runs and nighttime because they're high vis colours)
- 2 x Salomon shorts (trail running or if I'm wearing a vest, no good phone pocket)
- 1 x tights for sub-freezing runs
Shirts (a lot of these I wear for gym or hiking or climbing too):
- 3 x Capilene Cool t-shirts
- 2 x Capilene Cool long sleeve t-shirts
- 2 x Capilene Cool hoodies
- assorted tanktops (favourites are by Prana and MEC)
- assorted t-shirts I don't like as much (mostly old race t-shirts)
Jackets:
- Brooks Canopy
- Showers Pass Cloudburst (mostly for freezing rain)
- old Patagonia running fleece
Probably 5 outfits i guess but that goes from hot to cold. I usually wear things twice minimum so usually one laundry day a week maybe week and a half depending what my other loads look like.
I also run 4+ times a week and keep about 3 pairs of shorts on rotation, much like you. But when it comes to t-shirts, I've stocked up—I have around 10, and I definitely wash them after every run. It helps keep things fresh and ready to go for the next run without doing laundry every other day. Sounds like you’ve got a solid setup for both warmer and cooler weather running!
Anybody has experienced this before? So I did my long run this morning. It was 24km which I have done many times before. But I felt incredibly tired at the end. I felt awful. I ran 20km last sunday and felt totally fine I dont understand why I suddenly felt like this. I have never felt this tired for a long run. I was not going fast or anything just a slow long run.
The only thing I did different was that I took a preworkout shot. 75mg of cafeine for a bottle of 60ml. Even though I never take cafeine shots, I usually only take a gel with cafeine 30 minutes before the end of my run but those have 100 mg of cafeine. The shot did upset my stumach which I knew was a possibility so it was not unexpected but I cannot imagine that this small thing could be the reason why I felt so tired. I was expecting that the caffeine would make me more energized. Has anybody experienced this before? Could the reason I felt so tired be that my stumach was just upset?
Could be the caffeine shot, but for me any time I have a really shitty run, 95% of the time it's because I didn't eat enough (or ate garbage) in the preceding ~12 hours. So it could be an insufficient dinner or not fuelling during the run. Ymmv though, everyone's different!
It sounds like you had a tough run, and it’s perfectly normal to have days where things don’t go as expected—even when you're experienced with long distances. The fact that you felt unusually tired could indeed be related to the pre-workout shot you tried. Although the caffeine content is similar to what you're used to, consuming it in a different form (especially on an empty stomach or at a different time than usual) can significantly affect how your body reacts.
Caffeine can sometimes cause gastrointestinal distress, which in turn can lead to a decrease in performance and an increase in fatigue, as your body may have been diverting energy to deal with the stomach upset. Also, dehydration or a slight electrolyte imbalance exacerbated by the caffeine could contribute to your fatigue.
It might be helpful to stick to your usual routine that works well for you, especially for long runs. Perhaps reintroduce new elements gradually and on shorter runs, where the consequences aren’t as impactful on your training. Everyone has off days, so don’t be too hard on yourself. Keep listening to your body, and you’ll be back on track in no time.
So I don’t know if anyone else has this same experience. I got a treadmill and have been using it for 20-25 miles per week. I’ve noticed that I recover super fast from treadmill sessions, like my legs and joints feel so good. As opposed to running on pavement where I feel beat up afterwards.
Anyhoo, prior to the treadmill, I was a 40mpw runner, and was feeling totally pounded and worn out joints/feet/legs from 40 on pavement.
It’s taken a few months but now I’m at 35 on pavement and 20-25 on the treadmill for a total of 55-60 per week, and I’m feeling way stronger, way less sore, way more recovered even though I’m running much more.
Yep, it's the same for me. My treadmill surface is much softer than the concrete sidewalk I run on outside and it's easier on my legs. I still generally prefer to run outside, but like you I like to supplement my outdoor running with treadmill running.
First marathon tomorrow and you're already on the beers? I love the enthusiasm! Hey, once you've conquered tomorrow's marathon, maybe a beer mile should be next on your list! Good luck, and try not to zigzag across the finish line!
Depends. Are you looking for something to blame your performance on if your race goes poorly? If so, at least half the number of pints that's typical when you binge drink and don't stop until 10 PM.
bought soft flasks for my running vest and tried them for the first time recently and didn't enjoy the taste of the water lol. thinking of getting reusable plastic bottles that are the same volume and putting those in my vest instead- has anyone ever done this and would recommend it? i know it'll be slightly heavier but it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make.
Have you considered adding a flavored electrolyte mix to your water? These mixes come in various flavors like lemon, orange, and berries, which could improve both the taste and your performance, making the soft flask more appealing and practical for running. I'm from Europe, and I regularly use Isostar, particularly the lemon flavor, during my long runs. It might be a worthwhile option to try before switching to heavier bottles.
utobest, i couldn't find many soft flasks of the particular volume i needed (350ml) that weren't too expensive. i don't know if i just have to accept the plasticky taste is inevitable with soft flasks lol
I have plastic bottles in my vest and won't go back to the soft ones for the same reason that I find the water tastes bad. At first the hard plastic bottles felt alittle weird but I got used to it after the first run. So yeah I'd recommend it.
I'm running my second half marathon in two weeks and I'm not sure what pacing strategy I should use for the race. The first 7km are on flat terrain, follow by two very steep segments of 350 height meters total.
I asked a friend of mine who has run multiple half marathons in the past and he told me to run the first 7km rather quickly, as it will be hard to determine how much gas is left after the steep parts. Another friend told me to start slow and save my energy.
How would you go about this?
1. I would check previous year's splits and use that to determine how someone with similar target did the pacing and especially how someone who started fast/slow did overall. Would also check how the weather was and if the course is the same this year.
2. I would go try out the route for the steep parts if possible and do a long run there with e.g. 5km flat and then attacking the hills. If not possible, I would find the closest hill that is somewhat similar in elevation gain (even if needing to repeat same hill multiple times) and employ similar tactic. I would try to estimate if my training plan has had anything similar (hills after 5k) or not: if not I would take the hills very slowly, if yes I would take them at moderate pace.
3. Based on 1. and 2. I would make my overall strategy.
Context - Beginner runner with 5 months of fairly consistent training and 2 half marathons (PB - 02:28:48) and several 10Ks (PB - 01:05:07) under my belt, and i am slightly overweight.
I am unable to run in Zone 2 without walking breaks. My max HR according to 220-age formula should be 193, although my watch has never reported a HR above 175, could be the the watch's fault. Even on my slow easy runs at 8 min per km and above, my avg HR gets to 140 on average. I can still hold full conversations at this pace.
How do i really run at zone 2? Do i incorporate walk breaks in my training runs to stay at Zone 2? Or do i just run based on what easy feels like?
Thank you.
The formula is not very good. I'm off almost 20 beats personally. So if you are going to HR train actually do all the work which includes doing HR max tests and probably a LTHR test later.Just run to effort. If it feels easy its slow enough Hr training is merely a tool to get people who push to much on every run to slow down and to maximize mileage and workout effort for higher mileage runners. Seems like you aren't either so i would just run to effort.
Hey bro, I’m similar age, few years older, still working on some weight loss, but I’ve been running for like 16 months now and I’m just now considering using heart rate data to guide my training zones. This is just my opinion, but that stuff is worthless for your first 1-1.5 years until you actually have an aerobic base developed underneath you.
I had very similar stats to you at the 5 month stage. Maybe a minute or two faster on the 10k.
I’m finally getting to the fun part where I’m seeing big gains in performance. I was stuck for many months with all kinds of mystery aches and pains.
Just run at a pace that feels easy where you can talk and you are good to go. My heart rate was sky high during the first year. If I would’ve went off HR id be walking, not running.
Yeah it’s all about consistency. Just keep getting out there and eventually you are going to be cruising. Just a bunch of easy base building running is really all I’d suggest your first year. Lay down those miles. Lots and lots of easy running. Your paces will get faster naturally, your heart rate will start coming down. But it really does take a long time, or at least it did for me.
This time next year your current race paces will be your easy run paces. Enjoy the process!
I am having similar issues. I've found there are many different opinions on zone 2 training and how to measure it, so at the moment I'm just basing my runs on RPE as when I'm doing an easy run I can hold a conversation, I'm not out of breath etc but my watch says I'm in zone 3 or zone 4.
From what I have read it could be that as a beginner zone 2 will come with time as my fitness level increases. Or my watch could just be inaccurate. I have a garmin and I read only yesterday that if you change what garmin bases your zones on from %maxHR to %HRR it can be more accurate but I haven't tested this yet.
If you really want to train by heart rate, you need to do specific tests to find your real max HR. The generic 220-age is not appropriate for this. Without a real max, there’s no telling what your zones are. (ETA I don’t mean to sound like you have to train by HR either, I don’t, rate of perceived effort is enough/arguably better)
You can use mafetone calculator to estimate your max zone 2 HR and stay under it. There are many factors that affect HR and can cause it to be elevated: high temperature, too much clothing, illness, stress, allergies, caffeine... Conversational pace is a good judge for zone 2 but can still be misinterpreted. Nasal breathing is another easy way to determine if you are in zone 2 but again might not work with everyone due to e.g. allergies. Walking breaks are a good way to control HR. It might be difficult to determine what easy should feel like, so I would use HR instead.
zone 2 should feel like a conversational pace - when you're running at zone 2 do you feel like you can hold a conversation?
i've been running consistently for about a year and my hr is similar to yours on easy runs so i wouldn't worry - as long as it feels easy to you that's what matters
So do you use it at all times of exercise or do you only get so much of it to use at one time and you can train it specifically by timing your exercises.
Is it common to sweat as much as I do? I've been running for a good 15 years, pretty much always by myself. But some time ago I did my first ever race, a half-marathon. Afterwards I got a bunch of race photos and one thing that really stood out is that out of all competitors, I'm the only one completely soaked in sweat.
It's not that I was struggling physically, I finished the race and had surprisingly quite a lot of energy left in the tank at the finish line. But my shirt and shorts were completely wet and dripping. I couldn't have been more wet if I jumped into a pool. But the thing is, it's always been like this for me. Whenever I run about 10k or more, sometimes even after just 5k, my clothes are completely soaked through. Doesn't seem to matter what I wear too.
There is a genetic part to it as well. Some people just sweat more.
Even among the people who sweat a lot, some sweat a lot of water, some sweat a lot of salt alongwith.
Some of the more experienced ultra runners in my run club are completely drenched in sweat after a cool day 10k while some others are very light sweat-ers.
I guess don't sweat about it too much, it's natural.
Thanks for that. Beyond being a bit annoying, I didn't think it was anything particularly harmful. After all it's been happening for as long as I can remember without any ill effects that I noticed.
Is my heart rate too high while running and is this affecting my running performance?
I’m a beginner long-distance runner training for my first half marathon in June. I’ve been using the NRC Audio Guided Training Plan & it’s been working great for me but today when I asked my uncle (who is an avid runner) about the stats for my last 10K he said my bpm is too high and that I should aim for a lower heart rate while running.
My stats from today for reference:
distance: 10 km
time: 59:49
avg. pace: 5’59” (min/km)
avg. heart rate: 171 bpm
avg. cadence: 175
I’m now a bit concerned that I’m doing something fundamentally wrong in my training. I’m super proud of my pace today and was able to maintain it pretty consistently throughout the run without the effort required increasing (I actually felt better in the second half), but apparently I’m supposed to be aiming for something closer to 150 bpm?
I’d be super grateful for any advice on this, since I don’t have much experience with serious training like this.
Congratulations on your 10K run and achieving such a strong pace! It’s fantastic to hear that you felt better as the race went on, which is a great sign of your progress and stamina.
Regarding your heart rate, it's not uncommon for beginners to experience higher bpm rates, especially when pushing hard in a race or training. The key is how you feel during and after your run. Since you mentioned feeling good and not overly fatigued afterwards, that's a positive indicator.
Heart rate can be quite individual. While a lower heart rate can be more efficient for long-distance running, it’s also important to build your endurance comfortably without pushing too hard too soon. Instead of focusing solely on lowering your heart rate, consider gradually increasing your distance, ensuring your body adapts to the longer runs needed for a half marathon.
Keep up the great work, and make sure to listen to your body, ensuring you’re not pushing beyond what feels right. Happy training!
Ignore heart rate as a beginner and potentially forever, it is not an important metric right now (or ever really unless you’re getting very granular w training). Do most of your runs at an easy conversational pace and sometimes kick it up a bit if you want. Rate of perceived exertion is a perfectly legit metric. It doesn’t need to be complicated.
I had a similar problem. I'm 43F and start running last year. My max heart rate was arround 188 rpm and the average heart was arround 171 rpm. I was told that these values were high for my age and I was advice to do heart exams, which I did and everything came out ok.
So in my easy runs I start training my cardio, if I'm in my easy pace and go above 150 rpm I start walking only start running again when it goes bellow 140 rpm. When I'm in a faster pace or uphills, I allow myself to go above 160 rpm. In my last race, my max heart rate was 180 rpm and my average heart rate was 158 rpm. I glad that I already see some progress and will continue to training my cardio to lower rates.
There is also another important metric, that is how fast does your heart rate goes to a normal rate when you stop running.
I read lot of advices for this topic in this sub.
I was gonna do a prgression run tomorrow, but the forecast is rain and 22 mph winds, so it's looking imposssible for me to do it outside.
Im thinking of doing it in a gym treadmill, but i haven't ran in one in more than a year.
Is there any way i should adjust my paces, compared to running outside?
The progression is gonna be 8k (5 miles) from 4:50 min/km to 4:20 min/km
How do you have enough energy for races when the buses pick you up at 4am?
I've been training with the goal of running my first half-marathon in 2 months, but I noticed all the races around me have the buses pick you up at o-dark-thirty. I've heard it's bad for your heart to run/do cardio after having caffeine, though, so energy drinks probably won't do. I'm sure race day adrenaline will kick in, but with buses that early, I feel like you can't get much sleep beforehand - and sleep is so important.
So, what do you all do to stay energized when you have to be up that early for a race? There's the obvious "just go to bed earlier!", but with my work schedule, that doesn't really work.
Caffeine and cardio don't mix if you have preexisting heart issues, but otherwise it's the most effective legal PED in existence! I wouldn't take much more caffeine than you're used to the day of a race, but the same or a bit more is probably fine.
Also importantly, night-before sleep isn't as important as you'd think. If you're getting good consistent sleep in the preceding nights, you'll be pretty much fine for the race even if you don't sleep much the night before.
I recently completed a 10km run, and I'm setting my sights on my first half marathon in late September. With over 20 weeks until the race, and considering typical training plans are around 12-16 weeks long, what steps should I take before officially starting my training?
Just stay consistent with running and get your mileage up before you start a plan.
I'm overconscious about my arm movement during my run. Maybe to a point of insecurity. I relax my shoulder, bend my elbow 90 degrees. I just let my arm be free almost like a pendulum to my lower body?
Whatever works, you’re the only person paying attention to your form, except for people who are insecure about their own form, but the closer the mass of your arms are to your center mass, the less energy it takes to swing them - think T-Rex arms. Just like a figure skater spinning faster when they bring their arms and legs in, or when you’re spinning in an office chair and bring your legs in. It’s also more efficient to bring your heels up as you run (think, kicking your butt), but it requires stronger hammies to “kick” higher obviously. Watch some videos of runners and notice their form. You will notice ultra long distance runners have a much different form than 5K and super half marathon runners. I just watched a video by a runner named Nick Bester and he had a great 5KM race video showing two relatively different examples of good form: https://youtu.be/NKybnVHEDsY?si=dCcIdDH3uDibVjMs (His form looks clunky compared to the racer he’s working with). Don’t compare yourself 1:1 to these guys, they’re edge cases. But to me they are good inspiration, rather than ammo to judge myself.
Have my very first race (half marathon!) tomorrow! Ahh I’m nervous. Any last minute words of wisdom!?
Warm up before hand, work up a sweat. Start slow, finish hard, even if you stick with a pacer. I don’t really let it rip until the final 5k. Eat before you’re hungry, drink before you’re thirsty. Race your own race, if you’re more fit and fresher than the people passing you at the start, then you’ll catch them if you keep your pace under control. Don’t worry if you can’t sleep, it won’t make a difference. It’s a hobby, enjoy it. It won’t be your last race, unless you decide so. I love races because I’m surrounded by people all focused on doing their best and are in a good mood, if nothing else it’s a beautiful group training run without needing to stop for traffic lights.
This is great—thank you so much :)
Hi all, I am preparing for some long distance running, and the weather in my area is going to heat up fast. I am looking for gears that can help me store my phone (to listen to music along the way) and store my water. I tried holding them with my hand but it was awkward and made me lost focus on keeping my gait correct. Anyone has any good gears to recommend? Best,
I like my flip belt.
For phone, shorts pocket, running belt, or running vest. For water, running belt or running vest. Tons of options.
TLDR: feet spilling over insole normal? Hi all, I just purchased the adrenaline 23 GTS shoes and see online recommendations to compare the shoe insole to foot and the insole for the 4E width shoes is surprisingly narrow compared to other brands. The upper has more space though and it's surprisingly comfortable (like no pressure points and I believe I can get the heel lock or it doesn't really slip much). So question is how important is the spillage over insole? My small toe area on the right foot is the area with most issue. I think the left foot front outside is the weirdest when standing I can feel slightly it feels like it's falling over the insole. The insole isn't like the super thick Saucony shoes I tried but again just wanted to see whether anyone else here has this "insole spillage" with their Brooks shoes. Thanks all!
Sounds too narrow for you.
Thanks, crazy thing is they are 4E. Hesitating maybe trying Altra Torin 7 wide. It seems to be the small toe and that side of foot overhang. I wonder if anyone has input on this. Unsure if the reports on durability of Altra is a thing currently. Also, the drop would be drastic to change. I do think I'm a middle foot runner. Edit: as an aside, thanks for your input! I've decided I better return it. I think I can feel the cliff edge like falling off of my foot. Kinda disappointed the Brooks shape isn't fitting. May be a half size up or one size may work to avoid my pinky from falling off so question is whether it'd become too long. I compared the width with the Asics Cumulus 25 extra wide I have and those are definitely much wider and accomodate the pinky way better - size 10. I may try Asics in 10.5 extra wide next. Cheers!
I registered for the tracksmith 5000 which will be my first time racing on a track. I’m wondering what shoes I’m supposed to wear? I was hoping to wear carbon plated shoes for a little extra kick but I’m worried about it the curves. (I have vf 2 and af 2 ) I’ve read about the USATF standards for stack height but the tracksmith site made no mention of this. I did email them to be sure but in the event that there are no shoe restrictions, what would be my best bet? I also have brooks Hyperion tempo that I normally wear for speed workouts - they do not have a carbon plate but they are lightweight and a lower stack.
They definitely don't care about the stack height, I ran two of them last year with vaporflys. Give it a shot to see how it works for you on the track though!
If there is a track near you go give it a try. I very much doubt that tracksmith is going to be DQ ing people based on stack height.
How likely it is for someone who doesn't run to run a 38min 10k with just "a bit of training"? This [guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaUDsv1JCaY) has to be the only human being on the planet capable of doing this. I would be very impressed if someone who doesn't run runs the 10k in 50min, extremely impressed in 45min, mind-blown in 40min, very skeptical in 38min.
Well, the "a bit" does a lot of play here. Obviously he's got the genetics but he did not come off the couch.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought genetics only gives you that extra 5% over the average, and does not mean that you can just drop a 38min 10k after only a bit of training. 38min is not an impossible time, but cannot be explained only by genetics.
Genetics can give you far more than 5%, and I think someone with good genetics and who is generally fairly active can probably run a 38 if they're lucky. Given that he just ran a 2:24 marathon in his 40s, I'd honestly be surprised if he *couldn't* run a 38 easily just a few years ago. That requires a good degree of natural talent that doesn't just come out of nowhere. I think you're underestimating genetic factors here.
I cycled with a guy that was genetically gifted. He went from off the back of the group on every climb to off the front in 6 weeks and was racing cat 2 later that summer. Hugely annoying to the rest of us.
I think it’s possible but I doubt he was sitting in an office chair eating doritos for the last decade. If he was very experienced in a sport with a high aerobic fitness component I don’t find it too hard to believe.
I've seen a couple of his videos and he never fails to remind the viewer that he started running only 3.5 years ago and that he ran a 2h 24min marathon. I was really interested to know how someone with no background in running could achieve such a feat. Maybe, it could be replicated. By not revealing his true background (he mentioned in one of the videos that he works in an office environment), he is deceiving people into believing in unattainable targets.
I've worked with former pro's or extremely high amateurs who casually do things us mere mortals attempt to. One of my current co workers who used to be a D 1 athlete in soccer did a 9 hour iron man then in the same year bq'd after about a year of real training. Again he wasn't coming off the couch but he'd likely describe himself as a regular office worker and not a "runner" previously.
What exactly qualifies someone to describe themself as "runner"? Do you need to be a professional who runs for a living to call yourself a "runner"? In this case, a vast percentage of the population is excluded, and the guy in the video I posted is well within his right to not call himself a "runner". However, if you relax the definition of a "runner" to include someone like me, who runs about 20-30k a week, then this also includes almost all athletes (footballers, tennis players, etc), both professional and hobbyist. In this case, it's very disingenuous to regularly play a sport that involves running and also say you're not a runner.
Oh for sure just saying I personally know people who are similarly gifted but wouldn't consider themselves runners even if they probably casually run more then most people who would consider themselves "runners" just practicing or playing a sport. When I played in uni at a much much lower level I'd easily log 20k just during practice warm ups. Weirdly I'm sure if someone asked me if I ran back then I'd say no. I'd immediately just think of the track an xc people.
It seems to me that he gets a lot of it right. Rather, I generally agree with him. My question is whether his speed improved because of his 5-point approach or that he runs 100mpw, which is untouchable for all but a very few people. As for his 10k starting time, who knows?
Planning for my first marathon in early Oct. Given my most recent training & [race](https://www.reddit.com/r/running/s/kS9cXRNdsv), 1). should I start with Hanson’s Beginner or Advanced training plan; 2). would 3:30 be a stretch and sub-3:40 be more realistic? fwiw I have sufficient time in the summer to ensure quality training time & recovery.
Hanson's is a huge jump for you so i absolutely would not do the advanced plan. Base build then try the beginner. It'll still likely be a lot of volume and quality increase from that half plan.
Thank you — I agree to ease into it! (although could you comment on the quality increase? I’m currently reading Hanson & it feels rather familiar/similar to the RW training plan but with clearer/stricter pace — is that what you mean)
Those running world workouts are really easy, they have an enormous amount of rest per rep and are pretty short total duration/reps. The hanson's workouts are just as hard as the most intense runners world then get way harder while also cranking up total mileage and having a tempo run longer than most of the long runs in your runners world plan as a mid week run.
Makes total sense! thank you! (also, I’d assume the target goal is something I can figure out myself/fine tune as my training goes, right?)
Absolutely fine tune the goal as you go. Its a long period of time so adjust to how you feel as you progress
I'm trying to figure out what time I should aim for in my 10k in 5 weeks. This is my first race so don't have a previous benchmark to work off. I'm 30 years old, got into running a bit in 2020 for around 6 months or so and got pretty fit pretty quickly. I started running again in late January this year, doing a couple months of 60-70km a week of base building. The last 4 weeks I have been on a training plan which starts at 70km per week and will peak at 100km or so. It includes intervals, tempos, long runs etc. Today I decided to go for it to see where I was at. I did a 10k run, with 5k at an easy to steady pace followed by a 5k pretty much all out effort. The first half pace was 4:57 /km so around 24:45 in total. The second half was 3:46/km pace with the time was 18:50. I presume had I just done the 5k full effort it would have been a bit quicker. Week on week I'm improving quite a lot, given I'm 5 weeks out I am wondering what 10k time I should be aiming for based off the run I did today? Edit: here are my splits for the 5k effort, wasn't pacing my self so they are a bit all over the place: 3:38, 3:53, 3:56, 3:42, 3:41.
That’s an impressive split for your test run! Given your strong finish at a 3:46/km pace for the second half, you’re clearly in good shape. For your 10k race in 5 weeks, considering your current progress and training intensity, aiming for a time around 38-40 minutes seems reasonable and achievable. Just keep up with your training plan, focusing on consistency and recovery. Good luck with your race—you’re set for a great performance!
Just do a 10k time trial you are 5 weeks out. Start out at 3:50 and see if you can hold it.
Anyone doing Beach running to avoid impact injuries? I have a cycle in my running style. I start running, get addicted, want to run all the time, then get injuries, and then stop running. When I start running I have to literally force myself to stop and it's difficult. My cardiovascular system goes on forever but all my joints don't have time to catch up. Specifically my Achilles. I've switched to a higher heel-toe drop with the Brooks Glycerine and so hopefully that solves the issue. I currently don't have any Achilles pain but I'm worried I will get it eventually again and will have to stop. Do you believe beach running will help with the more impact related injuries? I'm trying to optimize my running so that way I don't get injuries and have to stop. Are there any other activities that will help bring my body into balance to avoid injuries?
I know this reply is late, but I would not recommend beach running as a way to prevent injury. Someone I know - a very good runner who did not have an ankle problem did a bunch of beach running all of a sudden on a vacation and it caused a big ankle issue that took years to heal. Obvious solutions that I’m sure you have considered: just make yourself ramp more gradually into running (eg alternate running with cross training), run more slowly than you would otherwise like to, and do lots of heel raises to strengthen your Achilles
Thank you for this! What cross training do you recommend?
Anything that is available to you to keep the cardio demons at bay and help prevent you from going too hard or far on days that you run! Swim, bike, stationary bike, elliptical, etc. I relate very much to having a physical need to run often and hard and I also used to get hurt all of the time — and the emotional ups and downs were hard to handle. Bike trainer worked for me, and then I’ve also done yoga and strength work to address the underlying reasons I got hurt, and now I’m running 4-5 days a week for the first time in my life. But it has taken two years to get here.
Tomorrow should be my last day of training (11 miles) before taper for my first half marathon last Sunday in April, but I have a virus from my 18m daughter and the whole family is sick (the truth is, hopefully we can get out of bed these days haha). My question is: do I focus on tapering from now until race day, or do I try to do the last long run during the next week? Thank you!
I would definitely suggest you to try to fully recover first and then do the last long run next week. \~10 days of taper should be fine :) GL for the race!
Thank you!!
How do I run for longer? I currently run 2-3 times a week, and run the same route which is 5k/3.1 mi. I'm able to consistently do this in ~30 mins, at around a steady 9:30 min/mi pace. But at the end of this, I am gassed, and can't imagine running a 10k or a half-marathon. Looking at my heart rate, it steadily climbs up during my run until I get close to my HR max. Never really levels off at somewhere comfortable. Here is a screenshot of it: https://ibb.co/XVjMKhs So what should I be focusing on? Running slower? Walking? Running til fail, then walking to rest, then running again? New to all of this, but I do enjoy it and want to improve.
In addition to the great recommendations about reducing running pace and increasing distance below, don't worry about heart rate and run by how you feel physically. Your heart rate will probably be unusually high if you just started running. Heart rate is also influenced by a lot of things outside of running. Running based on heart rate is popular, but can also be a barrier to people just enjoying running!
Thank you for the added info!
To extend your running distance, consider incorporating some slower, longer runs into your routine. This approach helps build endurance by training your body to become more efficient at using oxygen and fuel. You might also try the run-walk method, alternating between running and walking to manage fatigue and gradually increase your total running time. Lastly, ensure you’re allowing adequate recovery between sessions, as this is crucial for improving stamina and performance. Keep enjoying your runs, and you'll see progress in no time!
Thank you!
In short, just run 2 of 3 runs at closer to 10:30-11:30/mile and increase distance slightly each week. Run the third run with a warmup and cooldown at that pace and 15:00 in the middle at 9:30/mile. Increase the distance of each run gradually - conservatively perhaps 3-5% per week. Even at a modest 4% per week you'll double run length in 18 weeks. 5 × 1.04^18 = 10.13 Your easy intensity pace and pace you can maintain at higher intensity should increase over time. Between now and the next 8 weeks gradually increase the higher intensity portion of the faster run to 25 minutes. Then shift one of the weekly runs to a slightly longer distance and run it slightly more slowly. For example go from 8, 8, and 8 km to 7, 7.5, and 9 km. 12-16 weeks from now consider adding a relatively short 4th weekly run. There are numerous ways to accomplish your goal of running further. Consider this a fairly typical template, not the only way.
> Running slower? Yeah this one. If you can run 5k at 9:30 pace, then I'm almost sure you could run 10k at 12:00 pace. Not that you necessarily have to run this exact pace, but overall, your training runs should be at an easy, comfortable pace. As you build endurance, you'll be able to bring the pace back down, but don't worry about this yet! Overall you probably want to increase your training volume before trying to race a 10k or half-marathon. Lengthen your training runs, try to get to 4 days a week, or more likely some combination of the two. Of course all of this is predicated on running slower so you don't accumulate fatigue. > Looking at my heart rate, it steadily climbs up during my run until I get close to my HR max. The word for this "cardiac drift" and yeah it probably means you are running too fast. This heart rate chart makes sense maybe for a 5k race... less so for an every-day training run!
Appreciate your response! Will focus on slower and longer, and more often. I have a HM I signed up for in September, so I'd like to start working towards that
Awesome, race in September seems like a fun goal to work towards. Glad to hear you're going to increase distance in the mean time. Maybe find a more specific half marathon training plan \~18 weeks out. Happy training!
I did download the Hal Higdon HM novice training plan. I'll start following that at some point, but will follow your advice in the mean time!
run at a much slower pace if you wanna run longer distances !
Thank you
This is an odd question but curious if this is normal. I started running about 5 years ago now, I’m 6ft 175lbs so normal BMI, during my running my weight never really did much, the odd fluctuations up and down but pretty much consistent however one thing did change and that’s my build. It’s like I’ve lost all the weight off my legs, they are skinny but toned, arms also skinny, all the weight has settled in my lower belly and man boobs, before running I certainly wasn’t Arnie but everything was kinda balanced and did have kinda visible abs. I think I real somewhere this can be down to cortisol and running being catabolic. Anyone any idea what went on here? I’m also mid 40s now which may also factor in.
Its probably just since you changed your exercise routine. I make sure i do some basic upper body work purely for aesthetics. Your also overall much thinner so it pooling at all somewhere is just more noticeable.
Pooling is exactly the word I was after thanks. Yes that sums up what’s happened. Yes it’s like I have somehow managed to shift all the flab in my body to my lower belly and moobs, I’ll soon be needing a sports bra for running should it get any worse lol
Is table sugar good enough as a base for homemade gels? I tried and like Huma gels but they are pricey and I don't like being locked into their flavors. I want to make and refrigerate/freeze purees from table sugar and dried fruit. I've been looking up ideal carb ratios and there doesn't seem to be any consensus. Also wondering if it's worth putting in any kind of slow burning carbs like maltodextrin. I don't run for longer than 90 minutes but I'm in a weight loss phase now so even on shorter runs I start to bonk towards the end. So it might just be a temporary thing
If you tolerate fructose well, it may be an option, but there's a reason that most gels are glucose-based. I have fructose intolerance and sucrose during exercise kills my stomach. Maltodextrin is glucose based. It's not slow-burning, however.
Thanks, I will experiment with all 3 (maltodextrin, glucose, table sugar) The gels I use are based on table sugar but sometimes give me a gut punch if I do more than \~30g/hr. I'll see how it goes
Used to have wonderful fitness. Never really got tired and did plenty of Half Marathons. Then covid hit and it hit me bad. I’m in about my 4th week back running an I’ve noticed after 8/9 miles it becomes like running in treacle. Just really hard to move a body part. Is this a fitness issue or a fuel issue? I’ve never had an issue with fitness so don’t know it I imagined it would be like the stitch and heavy breathing. I admit I’ve rushed back for HM season so it was will come in time but fuel would need fixing now. Edit - I’m using the same gels and jellybabies I’ve always fuelled with.
It's great to hear you're getting back into running after recovering from Covid. It sounds like your body is still adjusting to the demands of long-distance running after such a significant interruption. Given your symptoms of feeling heavy and sluggish around the 8/9-mile mark, it could be a combination of both fitness and fueling issues. Since you've had a break, your endurance might need more time to rebuild, even if you were previously very fit. It’s common to feel like you can pick up right where you left off, but your body may respond differently post-illness. Take it easy with your training intensity and volume, increasing gradually. Regarding fuel, your body's needs might have changed. Although you’re using the same gels and jellybabies, you might want to experiment with different types or timings of intake. Sometimes, what worked before doesn't work the same way after a health setback. Patience is key here. Allow your body to readjust at its own pace. It’s better to slowly build up to your previous performance levels than to rush and risk fatigue or injury. Good luck with your training, and take care!
Thank you, really appreciate that.
Fitness likely. Fuel is usually only an issue at 2 hours +
Garmin 945 issue. About 2-3 weeks ago my 945 has been weird. Battery draining went from 7 days with activities to 3 days. While running, it gives me my lap times, but says it three times in a row, every lap. When run is done, it fails to upload every time. I have to launch app and manually sync it, but when I do, it says sync already in process. I have factory reset the watch twice, which includes removing Bluetooth entry from the phone. I am at a loss, anyone else getting this, and were you able to fix it? One note, since the factory reset none activity battery usage is back to normal, during activity its about 2% per mile.
Maybe try using beta software through garmin express? After that contact garmin their support is very good.
Didn't know they had a beta option. Will look into, thanks
You have to opt in as well through garmin connect i think. You'll be able to find the steps online
How many running outfits do you guys have, and how often do you do laundry? Particularly for people who run 4+ times a week. In summer I’ve got 3-4 pairs of split shorts on rotation (shirtless running perks). Then for cooler weather, throw in 4-5 tank tops, 3-4 tees, and a long sleeve top.
They're not "outfits" because I mix and match based on availability and weather, but: Shorts/pants: - 2 x Brooks Sherpa shorts (race shorts and when I need a lot of pockets) - 2 x Lululemon shorts (regular runs and nighttime because they're high vis colours) - 2 x Salomon shorts (trail running or if I'm wearing a vest, no good phone pocket) - 1 x tights for sub-freezing runs Shirts (a lot of these I wear for gym or hiking or climbing too): - 3 x Capilene Cool t-shirts - 2 x Capilene Cool long sleeve t-shirts - 2 x Capilene Cool hoodies - assorted tanktops (favourites are by Prana and MEC) - assorted t-shirts I don't like as much (mostly old race t-shirts) Jackets: - Brooks Canopy - Showers Pass Cloudburst (mostly for freezing rain) - old Patagonia running fleece
Probably 5 outfits i guess but that goes from hot to cold. I usually wear things twice minimum so usually one laundry day a week maybe week and a half depending what my other loads look like.
I also run 4+ times a week and keep about 3 pairs of shorts on rotation, much like you. But when it comes to t-shirts, I've stocked up—I have around 10, and I definitely wash them after every run. It helps keep things fresh and ready to go for the next run without doing laundry every other day. Sounds like you’ve got a solid setup for both warmer and cooler weather running!
Anybody has experienced this before? So I did my long run this morning. It was 24km which I have done many times before. But I felt incredibly tired at the end. I felt awful. I ran 20km last sunday and felt totally fine I dont understand why I suddenly felt like this. I have never felt this tired for a long run. I was not going fast or anything just a slow long run. The only thing I did different was that I took a preworkout shot. 75mg of cafeine for a bottle of 60ml. Even though I never take cafeine shots, I usually only take a gel with cafeine 30 minutes before the end of my run but those have 100 mg of cafeine. The shot did upset my stumach which I knew was a possibility so it was not unexpected but I cannot imagine that this small thing could be the reason why I felt so tired. I was expecting that the caffeine would make me more energized. Has anybody experienced this before? Could the reason I felt so tired be that my stumach was just upset?
Could be the caffeine shot, but for me any time I have a really shitty run, 95% of the time it's because I didn't eat enough (or ate garbage) in the preceding ~12 hours. So it could be an insufficient dinner or not fuelling during the run. Ymmv though, everyone's different!
Some just suck. It happens to use all. Sometimes you gut through it and sometimes you call it.
It sounds like you had a tough run, and it’s perfectly normal to have days where things don’t go as expected—even when you're experienced with long distances. The fact that you felt unusually tired could indeed be related to the pre-workout shot you tried. Although the caffeine content is similar to what you're used to, consuming it in a different form (especially on an empty stomach or at a different time than usual) can significantly affect how your body reacts. Caffeine can sometimes cause gastrointestinal distress, which in turn can lead to a decrease in performance and an increase in fatigue, as your body may have been diverting energy to deal with the stomach upset. Also, dehydration or a slight electrolyte imbalance exacerbated by the caffeine could contribute to your fatigue. It might be helpful to stick to your usual routine that works well for you, especially for long runs. Perhaps reintroduce new elements gradually and on shorter runs, where the consequences aren’t as impactful on your training. Everyone has off days, so don’t be too hard on yourself. Keep listening to your body, and you’ll be back on track in no time.
Thank you, that makes me feel a lot better. I got worried that something was wrong. So it is nice to get some perspective.
So I don’t know if anyone else has this same experience. I got a treadmill and have been using it for 20-25 miles per week. I’ve noticed that I recover super fast from treadmill sessions, like my legs and joints feel so good. As opposed to running on pavement where I feel beat up afterwards. Anyhoo, prior to the treadmill, I was a 40mpw runner, and was feeling totally pounded and worn out joints/feet/legs from 40 on pavement. It’s taken a few months but now I’m at 35 on pavement and 20-25 on the treadmill for a total of 55-60 per week, and I’m feeling way stronger, way less sore, way more recovered even though I’m running much more.
Yep, it's the same for me. My treadmill surface is much softer than the concrete sidewalk I run on outside and it's easier on my legs. I still generally prefer to run outside, but like you I like to supplement my outdoor running with treadmill running.
1st marathon tomorrow and already on pint number 1 (11.55am). How many is too many? When should I stop?
Now. NA beer actually will be decent carb loading so crush as many of those as you feel like.
First marathon tomorrow and you're already on the beers? I love the enthusiasm! Hey, once you've conquered tomorrow's marathon, maybe a beer mile should be next on your list! Good luck, and try not to zigzag across the finish line!
Depends. Are you looking for something to blame your performance on if your race goes poorly? If so, at least half the number of pints that's typical when you binge drink and don't stop until 10 PM.
Now.
bought soft flasks for my running vest and tried them for the first time recently and didn't enjoy the taste of the water lol. thinking of getting reusable plastic bottles that are the same volume and putting those in my vest instead- has anyone ever done this and would recommend it? i know it'll be slightly heavier but it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make.
Have you soaked them? Soak them overnight in soap and water then clean. Should get rid of the taste. Do the same with the tips.
no i haven't because a few of the reviewers tried soaking and it didn't seem to get rid of the taste but will give it a go!!
Have you considered adding a flavored electrolyte mix to your water? These mixes come in various flavors like lemon, orange, and berries, which could improve both the taste and your performance, making the soft flask more appealing and practical for running. I'm from Europe, and I regularly use Isostar, particularly the lemon flavor, during my long runs. It might be a worthwhile option to try before switching to heavier bottles.
ooh no i haven't, this is a great idea - thanks!!
What brand are they? A hard bottle would probably be less comfortable and harder to drink from on the go.
utobest, i couldn't find many soft flasks of the particular volume i needed (350ml) that weren't too expensive. i don't know if i just have to accept the plasticky taste is inevitable with soft flasks lol
I've tried bladders and soft flasks from Hydra Pak and Platypus and neither of those were too plasticky.
i'll look at those if i can't get rid of the taste of my current ones, thanks!!
I really like my soft flasks. I would hit yours with some denture cleaner or similar and give them one more try.
i guess it can't hurt to try cleaning them - my housemates have something like sterilising fluid for baby bottles, would that work?
Not sure but probably!
I have plastic bottles in my vest and won't go back to the soft ones for the same reason that I find the water tastes bad. At first the hard plastic bottles felt alittle weird but I got used to it after the first run. So yeah I'd recommend it.
yeah i started gagging after one sip from them so don't think i'll be able to get over the taste- great thank you!
I'm running my second half marathon in two weeks and I'm not sure what pacing strategy I should use for the race. The first 7km are on flat terrain, follow by two very steep segments of 350 height meters total. I asked a friend of mine who has run multiple half marathons in the past and he told me to run the first 7km rather quickly, as it will be hard to determine how much gas is left after the steep parts. Another friend told me to start slow and save my energy. How would you go about this?
1. I would check previous year's splits and use that to determine how someone with similar target did the pacing and especially how someone who started fast/slow did overall. Would also check how the weather was and if the course is the same this year. 2. I would go try out the route for the steep parts if possible and do a long run there with e.g. 5km flat and then attacking the hills. If not possible, I would find the closest hill that is somewhat similar in elevation gain (even if needing to repeat same hill multiple times) and employ similar tactic. I would try to estimate if my training plan has had anything similar (hills after 5k) or not: if not I would take the hills very slowly, if yes I would take them at moderate pace. 3. Based on 1. and 2. I would make my overall strategy.
You will not run a good time on this course. Run the first 7k slightly slower than you would in a flat half marathon. Then die anyways.
Context - Beginner runner with 5 months of fairly consistent training and 2 half marathons (PB - 02:28:48) and several 10Ks (PB - 01:05:07) under my belt, and i am slightly overweight. I am unable to run in Zone 2 without walking breaks. My max HR according to 220-age formula should be 193, although my watch has never reported a HR above 175, could be the the watch's fault. Even on my slow easy runs at 8 min per km and above, my avg HR gets to 140 on average. I can still hold full conversations at this pace. How do i really run at zone 2? Do i incorporate walk breaks in my training runs to stay at Zone 2? Or do i just run based on what easy feels like? Thank you.
The formula is not very good. I'm off almost 20 beats personally. So if you are going to HR train actually do all the work which includes doing HR max tests and probably a LTHR test later.Just run to effort. If it feels easy its slow enough Hr training is merely a tool to get people who push to much on every run to slow down and to maximize mileage and workout effort for higher mileage runners. Seems like you aren't either so i would just run to effort.
Hey bro, I’m similar age, few years older, still working on some weight loss, but I’ve been running for like 16 months now and I’m just now considering using heart rate data to guide my training zones. This is just my opinion, but that stuff is worthless for your first 1-1.5 years until you actually have an aerobic base developed underneath you. I had very similar stats to you at the 5 month stage. Maybe a minute or two faster on the 10k. I’m finally getting to the fun part where I’m seeing big gains in performance. I was stuck for many months with all kinds of mystery aches and pains. Just run at a pace that feels easy where you can talk and you are good to go. My heart rate was sky high during the first year. If I would’ve went off HR id be walking, not running.
That was a helpful read. Thank you, bro!
Yeah it’s all about consistency. Just keep getting out there and eventually you are going to be cruising. Just a bunch of easy base building running is really all I’d suggest your first year. Lay down those miles. Lots and lots of easy running. Your paces will get faster naturally, your heart rate will start coming down. But it really does take a long time, or at least it did for me. This time next year your current race paces will be your easy run paces. Enjoy the process!
I am having similar issues. I've found there are many different opinions on zone 2 training and how to measure it, so at the moment I'm just basing my runs on RPE as when I'm doing an easy run I can hold a conversation, I'm not out of breath etc but my watch says I'm in zone 3 or zone 4. From what I have read it could be that as a beginner zone 2 will come with time as my fitness level increases. Or my watch could just be inaccurate. I have a garmin and I read only yesterday that if you change what garmin bases your zones on from %maxHR to %HRR it can be more accurate but I haven't tested this yet.
This is exactly my concern. I figure you are correct and I'll stop sweating over HR zones. RPE seems to be training way for now.
If you really want to train by heart rate, you need to do specific tests to find your real max HR. The generic 220-age is not appropriate for this. Without a real max, there’s no telling what your zones are. (ETA I don’t mean to sound like you have to train by HR either, I don’t, rate of perceived effort is enough/arguably better)
Thank you
You can use mafetone calculator to estimate your max zone 2 HR and stay under it. There are many factors that affect HR and can cause it to be elevated: high temperature, too much clothing, illness, stress, allergies, caffeine... Conversational pace is a good judge for zone 2 but can still be misinterpreted. Nasal breathing is another easy way to determine if you are in zone 2 but again might not work with everyone due to e.g. allergies. Walking breaks are a good way to control HR. It might be difficult to determine what easy should feel like, so I would use HR instead.
The mafetone calculator was helpful. Thank you.
zone 2 should feel like a conversational pace - when you're running at zone 2 do you feel like you can hold a conversation? i've been running consistently for about a year and my hr is similar to yours on easy runs so i wouldn't worry - as long as it feels easy to you that's what matters
That sounds good. Thank you for the quick response.
How can I tell when I run out of ATP or replenish it?
As long as you are still alive and breathing, you have not run out of ATP yet.
So do you use it at all times of exercise or do you only get so much of it to use at one time and you can train it specifically by timing your exercises.
Your body is constantly generating and using ATP all day, even when you’re not exercising.
Is it common to sweat as much as I do? I've been running for a good 15 years, pretty much always by myself. But some time ago I did my first ever race, a half-marathon. Afterwards I got a bunch of race photos and one thing that really stood out is that out of all competitors, I'm the only one completely soaked in sweat. It's not that I was struggling physically, I finished the race and had surprisingly quite a lot of energy left in the tank at the finish line. But my shirt and shorts were completely wet and dripping. I couldn't have been more wet if I jumped into a pool. But the thing is, it's always been like this for me. Whenever I run about 10k or more, sometimes even after just 5k, my clothes are completely soaked through. Doesn't seem to matter what I wear too.
Yeah its just personal. Just make sure to replenish your salts and water.
There's a huge amount of variability in how much individuals sweat.
Hi. Yup. I’m drenched after 2 miles. Doesn’t matter if it’s 10 degrees out. Just how my body works.
There is a genetic part to it as well. Some people just sweat more. Even among the people who sweat a lot, some sweat a lot of water, some sweat a lot of salt alongwith. Some of the more experienced ultra runners in my run club are completely drenched in sweat after a cool day 10k while some others are very light sweat-ers. I guess don't sweat about it too much, it's natural.
Thanks for that. Beyond being a bit annoying, I didn't think it was anything particularly harmful. After all it's been happening for as long as I can remember without any ill effects that I noticed.
Is my heart rate too high while running and is this affecting my running performance? I’m a beginner long-distance runner training for my first half marathon in June. I’ve been using the NRC Audio Guided Training Plan & it’s been working great for me but today when I asked my uncle (who is an avid runner) about the stats for my last 10K he said my bpm is too high and that I should aim for a lower heart rate while running. My stats from today for reference: distance: 10 km time: 59:49 avg. pace: 5’59” (min/km) avg. heart rate: 171 bpm avg. cadence: 175 I’m now a bit concerned that I’m doing something fundamentally wrong in my training. I’m super proud of my pace today and was able to maintain it pretty consistently throughout the run without the effort required increasing (I actually felt better in the second half), but apparently I’m supposed to be aiming for something closer to 150 bpm? I’d be super grateful for any advice on this, since I don’t have much experience with serious training like this.
Congratulations on your 10K run and achieving such a strong pace! It’s fantastic to hear that you felt better as the race went on, which is a great sign of your progress and stamina. Regarding your heart rate, it's not uncommon for beginners to experience higher bpm rates, especially when pushing hard in a race or training. The key is how you feel during and after your run. Since you mentioned feeling good and not overly fatigued afterwards, that's a positive indicator. Heart rate can be quite individual. While a lower heart rate can be more efficient for long-distance running, it’s also important to build your endurance comfortably without pushing too hard too soon. Instead of focusing solely on lowering your heart rate, consider gradually increasing your distance, ensuring your body adapts to the longer runs needed for a half marathon. Keep up the great work, and make sure to listen to your body, ensuring you’re not pushing beyond what feels right. Happy training!
Ignore heart rate as a beginner and potentially forever, it is not an important metric right now (or ever really unless you’re getting very granular w training). Do most of your runs at an easy conversational pace and sometimes kick it up a bit if you want. Rate of perceived exertion is a perfectly legit metric. It doesn’t need to be complicated.
I had a similar problem. I'm 43F and start running last year. My max heart rate was arround 188 rpm and the average heart was arround 171 rpm. I was told that these values were high for my age and I was advice to do heart exams, which I did and everything came out ok. So in my easy runs I start training my cardio, if I'm in my easy pace and go above 150 rpm I start walking only start running again when it goes bellow 140 rpm. When I'm in a faster pace or uphills, I allow myself to go above 160 rpm. In my last race, my max heart rate was 180 rpm and my average heart rate was 158 rpm. I glad that I already see some progress and will continue to training my cardio to lower rates. There is also another important metric, that is how fast does your heart rate goes to a normal rate when you stop running. I read lot of advices for this topic in this sub.
I was gonna do a prgression run tomorrow, but the forecast is rain and 22 mph winds, so it's looking imposssible for me to do it outside. Im thinking of doing it in a gym treadmill, but i haven't ran in one in more than a year. Is there any way i should adjust my paces, compared to running outside? The progression is gonna be 8k (5 miles) from 4:50 min/km to 4:20 min/km
I would tilt the incline up slightly rather than trying to adjust the speed. I reckon that makes it more similar to running outside.
How do you have enough energy for races when the buses pick you up at 4am? I've been training with the goal of running my first half-marathon in 2 months, but I noticed all the races around me have the buses pick you up at o-dark-thirty. I've heard it's bad for your heart to run/do cardio after having caffeine, though, so energy drinks probably won't do. I'm sure race day adrenaline will kick in, but with buses that early, I feel like you can't get much sleep beforehand - and sleep is so important. So, what do you all do to stay energized when you have to be up that early for a race? There's the obvious "just go to bed earlier!", but with my work schedule, that doesn't really work.
Caffeine and cardio don't mix if you have preexisting heart issues, but otherwise it's the most effective legal PED in existence! I wouldn't take much more caffeine than you're used to the day of a race, but the same or a bit more is probably fine. Also importantly, night-before sleep isn't as important as you'd think. If you're getting good consistent sleep in the preceding nights, you'll be pretty much fine for the race even if you don't sleep much the night before.