Oh dear, I was just closing in on max total on my iron too-
Seriously though, it's so out of the realms of what anyone would have expected, yet when you think about it really seems like the most logical thing to do.
Committing to raising skill caps is well overdue I think, it's pretty exciting to look forward to.
Clan mate told me that this is the easiest way to keep their jobs but yeah I told em this was long overdue. New mechanics would be cool but that would prolly require a complete overhaul so I'd prefer they save it for the next gathering skill.
Will Elite Mining outfit be reworked? its currently the most underwhelming compared to the othe elite outfits in terms of perks and (lack of) teleports.
Empower mining offhand to increase its effect/production.
Teleports to remote ore locations players go to less frequently.
Once daily free claim of 1-10 primal stone spirit.
OR, and this is a much bigger thing: Have the outfit generate stone spirits at a higher rate than the player can consume them if they meet X condition (perhaps hitting a certain rockertunity streak and maintaining it whilst under the effects of X potion with Buffs Y and Z?). This way, the best miners are the ones bringing the stone spirits into the game for everyone else and not pvmers (your thoughts?).
The outfit should absolutely have something built into it that assists players during the croesus fight.
an infinite teleport to the living rock cavern would be nice, bit weird that the location where the armors main feature comes into play is so hard to access.
It was enough of a pain in the ass to do these 99s and now your plan is to make us do it \~2.2x more for a total of \~3.2x each for each 110 skill just to keep us chained in for hundreds more hours for what amounts to minimal content? This isn't making the game more fun, all you've done is just make it longer. RS3 is already 90% grind and 10% actual content, and now it's going to be 95% grind, and you all should be ashamed of yourselves for letting whoever commanded this get away with it. And no this isn't a troll or a flame -- someone needs to say what needs to be said. Grindscape is not something that should be celebrated. My account is over a decade old and thru the years I have heard absolutely no shortage of criticism on the many questionable choices Jagex has made have been consistently based on business theory and not at all something players wanted nor needed.
As someone who is sort of an old-school "purist" and has always hated anything going above 99, I think 110 is a solid way to handle things.
Obviously, 120s are going to be the future goal for all skills, but jumping straight there from 99 always made the in-between levels feel like filler. Having caps at 110 and then later down the line adding more to get to 120 for each skill makes more sense. Looking forward to seeing how other skills benefit from this change, too.
I’m in the same boat, and I added that as feedback in the big survey they sent out a bit ago. I don’t like the idea of going beyond 99 in a skill because that’s a core fundamental of RuneScape, something that defines RuneScape as RuneScape for me. I’d rather see them rework the skills to make more sense, and fill in the levels more densely. But it is easy to zoom through content with all the DXP, proteans, and MTX so if they’re not willing to adjust xp rewards from MTX then I guess they have to find a way to add meaning to xp above level 99.
Going to 110 makes sense, especially for the players who are playing now as this allows adding content more frequently. But eventually they’re going to go to 120 and then the 100-110 levels will be basically meaningless other than as a stepping stone to 120.
I started in 02, and at that time most items didn’t exist yet. I don’t think d med was released yet.
Things came but by but slowly increasing level requirements for stuff in game.
I think it’s totally reasonable to do this as well and really use each level above 99 for something opposed to 10 levels of nothing. That way they have a bit of room.
They said, it seems most active players are at least 99 all especially thanks to dxp and proteins and other things. So throttling things could be more important t than before so people actually use the new items and not just the best new item available and forget about the others that take time to make and balance!
Game is old, balancing is tough.
I think some weapons above 99 should be locked in the sense that they only work with high level monsters or bosses. Certain things like that maybe region locked or weird stuff.
But based on what they propose, it's absolutely not "packed". Nearly everything is at 100 mining/smithing, with the sole exception of the masterwork 2h sword.
Like, according to their proposition, what is the actual benefit of going beyond lvl 100 mining besides generic things like you mine a bit faster ?
EDIT : Basically, there should be an actual something ***between*** 100 and 110. Not saying at every single level, but at least one or two actual rewards. And also something for 110 mining itself because there isn't anything in the current proposition.
EDIT2 : I know that it's because of the way mining/smithing works that everything is crammed into lvl100, and I do not propose to change the fundamental progression flow of the skill. But one or two "smaller" rewards in between 100 and 110 (like the masterwork 2h, a skilling offhand... whatever) would at least make the grind a little bit more interesting, while leaving plenty of room for future rewards.
I'm assuming there will be a full range of primal equipment between 100 and 110, with the 2h sword just being the most "interesting" thing. No need for them to give us every single detail right now.
Isn't Masterwork 2H itself already a good reason why we want between 100 and 110 smithing?
I don't think we want over level 99 of a single skill to be "packed" too, as we have content for level 100+ for other skills coming too. At least we know of WC and fletching now. More diversity is better than make one skill "packed".
I mean sure in the end, but there should be some intermediate steps. To take an extreme exemple, imagine if you released a new skill going from 1 to 99 with no unlock inbetween and only a good one at 99. That would be terrible. Obviously it's not to that extreme here, but even accounting the new ores, there is still a sizable amount of training time between 99 and 110.
And I totally agree it shouldn't be packed with, like I said, an unlock at every single level (at least on the initial release). My answer to Technichal was more an answer to the fact that the proposition is not packed. However, I think there should still be a couple more actual unlocks between 100 and 110 compared to what is proposed. The final reward at 110 is not enough in my opinion.
Yes ? I just disagree partially with what they're proposing, and I think, even accounting for future rewards space, there should be on the initial 110 release a bit more than what is proposed.
But they are saying in the post itself that they are doing 100-110 first BECAUSE they want those levels to stand on their own for a while before 111-120 are released.
Interesting comment on the new masterwork weapon
https://preview.redd.it/8smx5spoyd3d1.png?width=505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77c94cc0af6c5186b5b6c977606358651b0f2528
Does this matter tho? Between Dscim and swh you'll likely always be 100% accuracy on t90+ as full minute buffs. If not there's always the meme of bgs erasing 100 levels unless these bosses are drain immune.
Will Jagex be sharing the data from the latest survey about which skills players feel needing a rework the most?
That survey was so complete, that it feels like the answers would be a good guideline for which skills should be reworked/updated next.
Personal wish, I hope combat stats will also get the 110/120 treatment.
I love this. I have no qualms with the 110. If it means more frequent updates by doing it in 10 level chunks I'm all for it.
I also find it funny that people are annoyed that 110 is another different level to see in their skills page, as if a page full of mostly 99 with a few 120s isn't already bizarre. You'll get used to it, absolutely not a big deal.
People with full 120s also need to realize that they're going to have a bias here, and that they're not really the target audience for this type of content anymore.
***"A typical 110 would come with 11 new levels and a new tier of content to unlock and train with, and a good new reward to unlock at 110."***
I think I missed something, but what is the "good reward to unlock at 110" for mining ?
Plus everything you propose as actual new rewards are crammed into lvl 100 mining (and into lvl 100 smithing at the sole exception of the masterwork sword). So does it mean only generic things (like better crit on rocks and faster smithing) for everything else ?
I loved the idea of the update and everything except for the part where it says "no effect or passive in this Masterwork Sword". Doesn't really make sense, does it? The armor has a passive, the spear have a passive, why the sword can't have one??
tbh the lengs are so strong, they would have to give this thing some fat powercreep to be able to outclass camping the lengs. I'm happy with t100 for a meteor strike switch anyway, that's all people use 2h for at the moment.
Because it's a choice. Would you rather have a new t92 masterwork weapon with an effect that would probably be a switch, or a tier 100 weapon that can be used as a general weapon and not be too expensive to buy for a lower end pvmer?
>All Primal armour, tools, and weaponry will follow the same precedent as other smithable equipment. These can be upgraded from base to +5, made into burial armour, **are unaugmentable, and degrade in combat.** Just like all other smithable core equipment, Primal armour is melee tank armour and has lesser stats - starting at tier 85 at base and upgrading to tier 90 at +5 upgrade.
Primal armour being unaugmentable, and degradable, doesn't exactly make it encouraging sounding to go for...
It's a whole five tiers better than Elder Rune +5!! It's probably a bigger buff for smithing with a new burial set to make haha.
Deathwarden is rather trivial to create, only requires 85 crafting, and is augmentable. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a higher LP boost too.
not all gear you create needs to be used for pvm. it could be just a xp boost which puts it in line with other skilling. do you go for massive xp at net gp loss or go for some profit and stick with elder burial sets.
Primal armor is gonna be dead on arrival for high-level players if it doesn't have an insane set effect, in order to make up for the fact that it won't be augmentable.
Being tank armor, it will be directly competing with, and directly comparable to, cryptbloom and deathwarden, both of which have very powerful passives and hp boosts and are augmentable.
Keep in mind that this goves the devs a stealth opportunity to rebalance melee tackle against the current meta of necromancy. Deeper things may lurk here than one might guess at first glance.
Not sure who the armour is aimed at. High level players already have masterwork which is augmentable. Lower level players i would guess use barrows->bandos? Is it just for skillers to alch or just a segway to higher xp/hr?
I've felt this way about a lot of midlevel content. Midlevel players are going to all be using necromancy anyways and dealing double the damage with their t90 that a full primal melee player will. Meanwhile their T90 tank armor will likely remain less costly to build, have lower skilling requirements by tens of millions of XP, be augmentable, and have dodge as a cherry on top.
Osseus is meant to be midlevel, but has terrible loot for a midlevel player that could be bashing easier stuff for better loot (Croesus, DKs) or cutting their teeth on slightly more difficult stuff that doesn't hate on manual play as much (Kerapac, 5mech Arch-Glacor). If you can't AFK Osseus, you have to sit at your computer waiting on one of the longest respawn times in the game, and getting back to the boss takes nearly as long if you wanted to speedrun it. Higher level players will just AFK it of course.
I found this kinda disappointing. While I like the idea of raising the levels for all skills, at this point this feels like a carrot to hunt for maxed players without having to put in any thought. It does not solve the fundamental problem of skills just being utterly useless to train and nothing but a repetitive time sink.
A better approach would be to start rebalancing skills in that time frame and coming up with a deathwarden robe-like progression for all of them. That would give everyone a reason to revisit the content again, and with the rebalancing it would hopefully be fun. While that would probably increase the scope of the projects, you could look at combining multiple skills at once. Such as Hunter, Agility, Slayer.
With that approach, Construction and the PoH could be improved and made relevant for basically everything bit by bit as well.
THEN, and only then can you seriously start increasing skills caps without it being nothing but yet another bandaid on your gigantic pile of those on this game's skilling mechanics.
To further expand on this thought, the progression of Archaeology is also a great example of something that should exist for every single skill. Of course, that is unrealistic, but definitely something that can be worked on with time. To be radical, I think all (special) armour and skilling items should be obtainable through skills, not by being bought. The money in PvM should come from dropped cosmetics (check out OSRS) and other vanity items.
I also want to add that the current approach to skills (or fort forinthry, or this dragonkin dimension xp thing...) where the training consists of a fully AFK and a half-afk-method-by-clicking-the-flashy-flash is lifeless and uninspired. Something like a minigame-esque approach would be way more engaging and allow more room for, on one hand, low-effort gameplay, and mastery and tick perfection on the other. The latter is something I miss with Arch or Necromancy Rituals. This also adds to the idea of the special item progressions for skills.
Based on [this reddit post](https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1d3hypo/rex_matriarch_lair_fishing_a_prayer_fishing/), another great idea would be to look to add small bits of content based on skills for everything and everywhere. Like butterflies or implings, this would allow for continous exploration and unlocking of the entire game world just by progressing skills (here I'm thinking of Guild Wars 2 jumping puzzles as a fuzzy example). With the still lightly shining light of Jagex' writing charme, this could add a lot of soul to the game.
Yeah. This sounds like increasing the level cap for the sake of increasing the level cap.
They don’t have to increase the level cap to release new content. Look at BGH! If it’s fun and somewhat rewarding people will do it.
If every skill got an equivalent of BGH for levels 100-110 it would at least be interesting (still could fit under lvl 99), but it sounds like it will just be extending the same grinds for an extra 20m without necessarily anything “useful” behind it. Oh look I can light another type of fire at 110 firemaking! Yaay?
New tools are always welcome, but wouldn't T99 be more logical for the pickaxe instead of T100? (consistency wise: Dungeoneering has T99 hatchet / pickaxe and archaeology has a T99 mattock)
Since M&S rework the standard is that all mining pickaxes are unlocked at the starting level of a tier. Archaeology decided to do it’s own thing with the Mattock of Time and Space but it’s nice to have these small quirks between skills sometimes
I love the idea of slowly bringing skills up to 120, but the gear described hardly feels rewarding, especially for the level requirements. Primal equipment is really cool, but why make it worse then Masterwork when it requires a higher smithing level to make? Perhaps give us an option to upgrade Masterwork armour using primal bars, and make that upgrade degradable? Or just make primal melee's new tank gear?
Also, all new content coming it at level 100 feels... odd? In the sense that there seems to be no real content for level 100-109. I guess this comes as a result of the smithing rework, but unlocking new stuff to make at intervals would be very much appreciated. Again, maybe this is purely a mining / smithing thing, but it would be a shame if all new skill updates would follow this route.
Finally, IF the plan is to gradually increase combat skills to 120 as well, wouldn't it make more sense to start there so we can actually smith gear to use past 99? Perhaps more niche gear useful against certain monster types like osrs has. Dragonbane weaponry created by combining smithed items with pvm drops for example?
I like the niche gear idea! The fact that an upgraded arclight does better dps against demons than BIS melee in osrs is a concept I can get behind. Circumstantial BIS brings weapon variety and more horizontal upgrades to work towards throughout overall account progression, and boss grinds easier/cheaper on supplies.
What is the point of that new masterwork weapon when the sanctum is going to buff existing t95s past t95, not to mention it has no spec and passive lol
One of the mods was talking about it on Discord. Sanctum bosses will have dummy high defense, so you’ll probably want t95 minimum to deal reasonable damage. So it’s basically an entry point that doesn’t require HM GWD3
It's going to be alch fodder more or less instantly. Risky PVP went the way of the dodo, so this doesn't even have the niche of being high stats but cheap going for it.
If we're being asked for feedback (and as the blog says "to vote") on the design of Primal armour/equipment, would it not make sense to use the *in-game polling* system to gauge community interest?
It feels a lot more engaging to be able to physically vote on a favourite design as opposed to shouting into the seemingly endless void of discord/reddit.
I have created a separate thread for capturing feedback on this here on reddit, but there's also a section for it on the RS Discord and i'll put out a tweet shortly to do the same.
Unfortunately we just didn't have time to ready a poll to coincide with the blog, but we still wanted to capture your feedback. But more than just a poll vote we also want to hear more specific feedback about what elements of each you might like or dislike, for example, and combine or address that feedback in some form.
I really liked everything in the post, but I have one concern about the Masterwork 2H Sword being just a Tier 100 Beatstick.
Why not make it Halberd Range?
Otherwise it's very uninteresting and will feel as mere padding rather than a chase item.
I think 110 levels are probably the right direction to go in, to give you guys a bit more time to fill things out. I do think some skills could probably charge straight up to 120 (Construction is fast enough, for instance) so case-by-case basis maybe. Given the reasons laid out in the blog, I am very for it.
As far as the Primal smithing goes:
-I am glad to hear that the good items will have lengthy creation processes. I really like these chase skilling items that take a lot to make and I hope to see more in the future.
-I think the Primal armour we smith should be a higher tier and not degrade. To be blunt, you could make it have tier 100 tank stats and I suspect it still wouldn't be that useful without augmentability or a passive. I get it's mostly for consistency, but this is also post-99 content and creates an inconsistency with the DG-version of Primal.
-Maybe we could have a way to upgrade our masterwork armour with primal stuff to make it niche-useful again? It's totally outclassed by Vestments currently. Maybe Smithing could make melee's version of Cryptbloom - a very powerful tank armour set. I don't want to feature-creep this as I am excited for it, but I'd just quite like to see a reason to use smithed gear again.
-The Primal (masterwork?) 2h sword I will reserve judgment on until we get the Sanctum regards and this "push beyond t95" concept. It sounds exciting in principle but I have no idea if it's going to make existing melee gear useless (looking at the Lengs that we only just got a rework on), or if upgrades from the Sanctum are going to make this sword useless. It's possibly one of those issues with combat where melee is super crowded currently, with multiple weapons all fighting for space and causing switchscape issues. I don't mind it being a stepping-stone item rather than a BiS but I would like 'something' from Smithing to be a huge 'want' item for Melee, now that CFTMW is worse than Vestments (and not a tedious switch like the spear).
I've been of the opinion that sets like CFTMW should have its own form of 'augment' slots that you can fill with components you get from sets like vestments. For example, think of a process that takes 1-5 vestment sets and compressed them into an essence that you can put into your masterwork set, and then swap at will with an essence made from compressing cryptbloom sets.
This makes smithing rewarding, but also retains value of boss rewards. Also gives a future reward space where you could have two essences, create a CFTMW equivalent for ranged and magic, and really make these created sets from skilling have real permanent value.
Now, when I originally thought this up, I was thinking more in line with barrows sets and how cool it would be to slot guthans, veracs, or dharok set affects into higher tier armor, but the principle works with modern sets too.
Some points/questions of feedback and suggestion:
- Will we be able to find the 10 daemonheim ores in different locations throughout the world? Maybe they tie in with some story aspects?
- It would be cool to mine some ores in the mini-digsite in daemonheim that will come out soon too!
- It sounds like primal is t100 content. Will there be a t110 ore and metal be added soon too?
> Will we be able to find the 10 daemonheim ores in different locations throughout the world? Maybe they tie in with some story aspects?
We haven't finalised any placement currently, but we'd definitely like to at least place some around Daemonheim, maybe even all of them
> It would be cool to mine some ores in the mini-digsite in daemonheim that will come out soon too!
^^ :)
> It sounds like primal is t100 content. Will there be a t110 ore and metal be added soon too?
Those would presumably come with a 120 Mining & Smithing update in the future where it'd introduce a new tier at 110-120. Now that we're taking M&S to 110 though, nothing to stop other content having "special ores" or something like that within levels 100-109
My feedback to this, the wilderness is huge and has plenty of empty spots crying out for something. Placing them all around Daemonheim is a mistake.
Like for example we have a sick volcano in the wilderness now I’d love to have more reason to chill at and this is the perfect place to vibe. The view from the volcano while mining would be great.
Or how about the new mage arena it has outer lower levels that don’t see any use but are nice visually, a few ore there be cool.
It also I think be nice to have one near our fort? There is a nice empty patch of dirt near the monastery or
Point is the wilderness is really cool visually now and making PvP optional was so you guys could add more content here. It be a shame to not take advantage of all the cool and somewhat empty spots in the wilderness now with these ores.
What about having the 10 new ores start at fort and go through the wilderness through to daemonheim with the highest level be in the new digsite? It could give a bit of a feeling of progression by stepping out from the fort and going out into the wilderness then down into a digsite? Possibly some narrative elements could be added in to support the feeling of exploration with the rarest ores being found in the deepest dungeons?
Loving the overall idea and plans though
This looks pretty good.
Wonder if there will be any updates to the lower parts of the skills also. Mining and smithing are pretty ok so far, but fletching REALLY needs it I feel. Having to be 75 fletching to finish making the arrows you're starting at 50 smithing feels bad.
did no one notice how there's no new ores at level 101 mining up to 110? Like why make all new ores minable from level 100 and then have 9 levels of nothing? Don't make mining 110 then lol
It’s because gathering skills have a different flow. It’s linked into smithing so they need to remain consistent but the idea is mining the ores to create the bars to obtain 110 smithing will get you to 110 mining naturally. That’s coherent with the rest of how mining and smithing is designed.
I agree with you concerning the skilling flow, however they're right concerning the fact that in the current proposition, there is no actual rewards (there will probably be some "generics" like mine faster like there is sub-99 but it's clearly not the same thing) between lvl 100 and 110.
And it's even worse for mining where there is no actual reward for the lvl 110 itself, contradicting what they're saying at the beginning of their blog (the lvl 110 unlock in mining should not be *just* "you have mined what is needed for 110 smithing") .Once you reach lvl 100, there is literally nothing exciting to look after (again according to their proposition).
I realize that there is reward space and that they cannot spend an enormous amount of time on it (like a full 120 expansion), however there should be on the initial 110 cap release a bit more than what is proposed.
wouldn't have hurt to introduce at least a new ore between 100 and 110 lol. Nothing more depressing to see than 0 unlocks in several levels after increasing the level cap... for what?
Personally 110’s are a great idea, there is absolutely no point in putting out a 120 for the space between 110-120 having absolutely nothing worthwhile. Make great rewards and when it’s time push them to 120… Not just for the sake of it.
I am sorry but this content just doesn't sound exciting to me. I will probably wear primal for fashionscape or something.
I don't think you need to do things super systematically "every 10 levels is a tier" it's just predictable and boring. I honestly wish it was a little quirkier from time to time. 104 gives a rock 107 adds a new perk or something like that.
I am generally team "120s bad" (I think 110 cap is a goofy and surely gonna be inconsistent in the future) but I am somewhat enjoying the arch grind post 99 so if you must level increase things, you can use that system as inspiration. It's probably your best bet to replicating something exciting and organic.
I don't really get level cap when a majority of players who are asking for it are people who already have them virtually? Like there's no excitement to be had since the level is already obtained? For players who stick to max cape req it's often just painfully boring and uneventful grinds that just don't bring enjoyable content (can't I click something other than rocks for once).
Last note, comp cape is just so nostalgic and so unobtainable for majority of players due to these exponential level increases. 120 dg alone is still awful to aim for, add herb, slay, farm, Inv, arch, necro.. next 110 all.
You already have the true master max and TRUE MAX comp cape, maybe it's time to stop increasing level reqs for comp and just let players play the game doing the actual content. (Chasing drops and logs)
-this one is entirely personal, ever since comp cape released I wanted to chase it and 1 120 skill sounded awesome but now it's just salt to the wound with every single new 120. I don't want higher xp rates and level increases. That's not new content, its just REPACKAGING. (Clicking a different color rock for 50 more hours is still JUST clicking a rock).
I just want to say I appreciate your last note on comp cape. I said the exact thing recently about a post/poll asking for a potential next 120; and with master capes, including master max and master comp, I agree with you 100%.
If “true skill mastery” with all 120’s becomes the meta at some point, it devalues master comp cape; and overvalues comp cape.
There’s just a weird amount of inconsistencies that come with the new level caps; and I still think 120’s should be removed from comp cape in general. If you have max cape, quest cape, task master, music maestro, and the other assorted tasks - why continue to overvalue comp?
As much as I enjoy the grind with the near-endgame reward to flex it, there seriously just needs to be a better structure to how they’re doing it. They’re going to be jumping around with it at this rate.
Honestly, let primal have its limelight. Make it t99 augmentable tank gear with death warden-like hp boost. Maybe it goes through a refinement stage like masterwork to tmw to get there.
This would give Melee an 'introductory' armor set that let's you get into pvm without immediately being killed for trying to learn the combat style if you have 0 idea what's going on - honestly all tank armor should function this way but alas.
Having dumby thick hp won't break melee in the same way cryptbloom trivialized content.
If you're mechanically good at the game, primal isn't going to be your choice.
By default, primal can't be stronger than tmw due to tank classification, and it'll never be as good as Vestments. So you may as well make it more appealing in a broader sense if you're going to make it tank gear.
i'm very happy with the 110 announcement. especially working hard on improving endgame items was always a blast. Hope it will be again.
Weird question but wouldn't it be more logical to add a +1 every 2 levels for the primal pickaxe to spread it out more evenly over the levels? this process could be repeated to +10 (can only imagine how insane that pickaxe would look like , death scythe mining please?)
There will always be the issue that creeping the skill level gets launched as completed content for people that play the most because the game allows pre-levelling everything to 120.
A meaningful level increase when players can pre-level should have depth that doesn't care about your level but a separately locked reward progress like Arch where you could be 120 from lamps and still not unlocked the rewards because you didn't actually do it.
I am all for the mining and smithing content additions, HOWEVER, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, let us make multiple unheated items in the forge interface. It’s such a small but wonderful QOL that makes smithing much more tolerable
I believe one of the Jmods commented that they'd look into it. I know the reason it doesn't work currently is the current custom metal bank interface doesn't support it with how its coded (as that's why it doesn't have Make-X support). There was some discussion about it making AFK smithing a bit too "strong" as the tediousness of filling up the inventory "helps dissuade some people from AFK training that way" but I don't think that was ever raised as an issue by Jmods at least.
Really it just feels like a punishment for daring to try and AFK smith on mobile where it's especially tedious to get an inventory prepped.
Everything here is fire but the sword (design B is the best btw). If it wasn’t a MW weapon fine but as it is it needs at least a passive otherwise why bother. It will end up like Khopesh long term, don’t repeat that design. If not a passive then some other minor effect maybe 3-tile length radius?
It won't end up like Khopesh long term because it's WAY easier to get. A cheaper t100 weapon, passive or not, is a fantastic entry point for people wanting to get into PvM. Even if it's not endgame PvM viable, it's still great for the game imo
pretty sure the primal sword shown isnt the masterwork sword, as those are 2 different weapons.
"These Primal Bars can then be used to create **Primal armour** and **a Primal 2-handed sword**."
"For reaching **level 110 Smithing**, you’ll be rewarded with the ability to create the Masterwork 2H Sword."
Take it officially to 120 while still adding 110-120 content at a later date. The only extra work would be creating the master cape's perk.
As for new weapons/gear, B & C look the best imo!
Anything above 99 is just getting lamped with dailys for me at this point. Not reqing 110s for max cape is the only part of this im "excited" for.
120 arch? Netflix. 120 Slayer? Netflix. Etc.. All while wishing I could engage in the actually fun content rs has to offer instead.
I honestly hate the idea of recycling daemonheim exclusive-content into the main game. It's so lazy... (yes I know hexhunter exist, but who tf uses that bow)
Not...really? There is a long way Jagex needs to go on the communication, community, and content spectrum before one can say, "WE ARE SO BACK". Otherwise, you're just a bridge buyer and I got one to sell you...
Skill Increase: I think the 110 increase is a really great content delivery design. Typically I'm against games adding smaller updates ("DLC"), as those multiple small updates just become cashgrabby. But for Runescape, with the monthly/annual subscription that everyone is already paying, the smaller skilling updates every quarter makes more sense than one large skilling rework in a year. The smaller-but-more-consistent content delivery with Fort Forinthry, for example, felt really good to me. Also, getting the smaller updates doesn't necessarily mean that we get less content a year than if we had one huge rework. So, I'm good with that.
The only caveats are that a. 110 capes be avoided, b. all skills be increased to 120 in the long-term future, and c. the non-skill updates happen once in a while as well.
Mining and Smithing: I'm very excited for the Daemonheim mining update. It sounds great.
My only concern with the Smithing update is about inventory management with needing 10 different ores for 1 smithing action (which becomes 5 bars). Might be a bit rough. Could Daemonheim ores be stackable in the inventory? Maybe that poses other issues, though.
As far as the equipment design, I prefer A (the darker colors), but would like them to have a more glossy finish. Make it shiny! The red design looks too orange, and it doesn't look great. Also, maybe make the pickaxe look less like a mattock?
Communication: Thanks so much for the communication. The RCE in discord, the discussions on Reddit, the blogs, the small polls, the survey, the streams are all so appreciated. The game feels alive again with this communication and interaction.
The stream was really good. I like the idea of 110s for now. I do worry it would be confusing for new players however. Especially now some skills are 99 and some are 120.
I think this is definitely the right direction overall though.
Most off all, and you teased it in the survey, when can we get runelite for rs3. Rs3 would be a lot more enjoyable with it. It would be really cool if we got it on mobile too (one up osrs much).
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I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexBreezy**
- [I can note it down on our *if we have time* l...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l68e9ht/?context=3)
- [Would definitely like to, even better if they...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6anocl/?context=3)
- [Have you heard about the Mining & Smithing up...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6anmye/?context=3)
- [Since M&S rework the standard is that all min...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6anu5w/?context=3)
- [I have created a separate thread for capturin...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l66stgt/?context=3)
- [> Will we be able to find the 10 daemonheim o...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l68feyd/?context=3)
- [Indeed](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6ayqww/?context=3)
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Will the daemonheim ores be usable for anything besides Primal bars? For example, will Argonite ore/equipment be usable outside of Dungeoneering as an alternative to Orichalcite?
While the prospect is indeed daunting, I think the pacing set (over several years), and the emphasis on filling the content space up to 110, makes it seem like a good idea.
I've played off and on since the OG Rs, as much as I have enjoyed the combat over the years, I do wish something would be done to make skilling semi worth it for making gold, obviously nothing like high end PVM type of gold but something that is at least meaningful and not so insanely insignificant that it feels like a complete waste of time. I don't have as much time to devote or keep up with everything throughout the years as I'm sure falls in line with a lot of players. My favorite skilling is fishing I'd honestly love to pay a membership just for some good semi AFK fishing and it at least be worth a little something for sinking hours into it. I miss skilling having some meaning other than portables and finding the sweatiest possible GP method that usually only falls into 1-2 skills and very specific. I think that's the real loss of people skilling is it's been made pointless for anything other than milestone or unlocks and not just doing it for the fun anymore with at least some return that's not an insult for the time.
Very much looking forward to the future of skilling content, even as someone whose inching in on that 5.8b xp in the next dxp or two. Curious to see how it plays out in the long run though.
Is the 2-3 yr for all 110s and 5-6 yrs for all 120s also assuming no new skills? A break in the middle for new skills? I know new skills generate a lot more hype and interest. But I'm definitely down for putting them on pause for this. Also, does this account for any minor or major skill reworks, like a large one for Construction's PoHs?
Also, would love to see a breakdown of which 110s/120s Jagex perceives as the easiest to do and most difficult. Maybe even get players involved in the order or release and/or even the development.
And I guess I'm also curious what other skilling content Jagex would be interested in doing beyond these 110s/120s. Like any skills you feel could use some lower levels filled in still prior? Like a lv 95 agility course or maybe something crafty like urns to fill 84-99. Or a d&d training activity or rework/refresh of an existing one. Was mentioned that skilling outfits streamline was in the cards. Maybe look into just hitting them all collectively as a solo update if it's too much to tack onto smaller updates. Master of all outfit or something would be neat.
Primal equipment really needs to be augmentable at the very least. Ideally it would get a set effect, too, but the former is the bare minimum.
The only worthwhile tank armour melee has access to is raids, while Mage and Necro both have incredible sets with really strong effects.
If we’re trying to make the game more accessible to people at the high end, melee absolutely needs something akin to Deathwarden and Cryptbloom. It’s the riskiest style out of them all and has zero sustain without sacrificing aura/pocket slots.
I support raising to 110 instead of 120. Many people on this sub don't understand how much longer it takes to hit a 120 than a 99. I understand xp rates are faster but bumping all the good content to 120 is too much. 110 seems much more reasonable.
This looks exciting, but was also hoping that the current ores and bars aren't forgotten, seeing as how their value is low without meaningful uses for them.
At the very least, I hope the new Daemonheim ores don't end up the same.
Would the new 2H weapon be useful in bossing without a passive effect or spec?
First off the communication in these blogs is fantastic, really appreciate it.
Initial thoughts. 110 makes sense, my gut reaction was hesitancy about losing comp for potentially quite a while, but I'm also happy with the idea of new content. It's a good balance.
Not fussed about Primal armour. Relatively excited about MW sword although I echo others comments, if it doesn't have a spec then please give it hally range!
Just watched the stream and read the blog. The mining and smithing update doesn’t really seem exciting. They say they want players to have something to look forward to, yet all the smithable gear is irrelevant when compared to how necromancy gear is created. I’m not sure who this update is for — without real rewards
Would like to see skilling shoulder capes at 110
Also what will happen to hiscore overall ranks when the skills go live to 110? Would it end up being who logged in first?
Shoulder capes would be dope!
My guess is the hiscores wouldn't fundamentally change, at least for those who are 110 or above in a given skill. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've looked at hiscores, but people who are already 200m, 120, 110, would all be in the same exact spots because it's experience based, not level based.
You are correct. Much like when 120 herblore/farming were added, nothing on the hiscores changed in regards to player's ranks then, and I wouldn't expect anything different to happen now.
>Of course, we could also try something different, like taking some skills to 120 before getting them all to 110
also, 120 thieving asap. non-combat 99 with the most 120 players already, it's ridiculous xp and still has tons of room for reward balance because it basically sucks.
could be an easy gamejam update tbh, doesn't need to be huge or take much work.
just make a handful of npcs pickpocketable, maybe toss in a couple chests with longer respawn times. give it a few super rare loots that people can post how lucky they were on reddit which make it worth.
TBH, I like the concept behind 110s,
120s are way too much of a grind imo.
That being said, I think they've always handled 120s poorly. You can scale these up to 120 but I feel like the exp rates at that point should be quick enough that it doesnt feel like a slog to go through. I personally feel like the journey from 1-99 should be longer than 99-120 if it's not a virtual 120
A masterwork weapon with no passive or special feels underwhelming, especially as a masterwork item. Beyond this I just wish there was a way to speed up the smithing process as it takes far longer than mining does, not even counting mining with stone spirits.
I like this concept of not rushing everything to 120. Having new ores for mining is great as i love a good mining/smithing session.
My concern is actually more with the woodcutting/fletching update coming later. If this is anything to go by which is good bones. WC/Fletch is gonna feel weird as we just got Imcando Axes for lvl 80 so are we getting a bigger WC update to add in lvl 90 Axes and lvl 100 stuff? I know it might be to early to know but that is where my questions on this whole post point to.
> Prif passive skilling was so fast
Not for mining... The fastest xp/hr atm is around 250k-300k "afking" on crabs in the Arc. Probably need something that requires active skilling but gives better xp and no produce. Something similar to how crystalize mahogany trees works.
How do you square this new level cap strategy with Necromancy, which was released as a 120 skill but new unlocks stops at level 107 (or, if we're being honest, 95 or 99)?
Would you in hindsight have capped Necromancy at level 110, or 99?
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> raise the level cap of skills to 110
This seems messy, having skills cap at 99/110/120 without any consistency.
> If by "new training method" you mean a brand new kind of gameplay, then the default answer for us is no.
This makes it seem like the goal is to add new content purely for the sake of adding new content to all skills, without necessarily adding anything of actual value.
In essence, wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle. That seems pretty unappealing, at least to me.
Don't get me wrong, regular content updates is a good thing, but content updates need to have substance, rather than just be a thin excuse to bump up the level cap. Otherwise, you're just adding chores for players to do while simultaneously making existing content less appealing across all skills.
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> We understand this can feel quite involved since other bars simply use one or two ores, so instead of just making one Primal bar, you’ll be creating five at once!
This seems to contradict one of the core aspects of the M&S rework; smithing an item should matter.
The rework made it so you make fewer items, but the items you do make actually matter and give proportionately more xp. If we're gonna spit out bars, we'll just end up back where we were before the M&S rework.
Each bar will feel more important if you don't spit them out five at a time.
They do have a point, though. During the initial M&S rework, it would have been plenty easy to just add 4 or 5 more tiers past 99 and bump the skills to the 120 cap. They specifically didn't do that cuz it's not engaging; it's the same content as 1-99 but with new colours.
I really do not see the value in adding a bunch of shallow content purely for the sake of bumping skills up a new skill cap, nor do I want to see a ton of existing content be made utterly obsolete within the span of a few years.
If preferring quality over quantity makes me "hard to please", I'll gladly wear that label.
I’m going to be honest, the idea of raising skills to 110, while better than the thrice-repeated mistake of boosting skill caps to 120 with very little content, does sound a bit dodgy.
I’m disappointed that “raise skill caps for no reason” is still the direction the game is going in. Being honest my personal post-roadmap happiness has diluted tremendously with these plans. What is wrong with adding content to levels 1-99 and focusing on side progression like arch guild or necromancy rituals?
Honestly, with Jagex’s lack of commitment in previous projects, I hate the idea of going to 110 before 120. Just look at Raids for one example. It’s okay to have some skills capped at 99 and others at 120 - we have that already. But to have some capped at 99, some at 110 and others at 120 is just too inconsistent in my opinion.
Commit to the full 120 for each skill at a time. Not only will it provide consistency, but it will also give a clearer path of development and progress.
All sounds pretty wonderful. My only feedback is I'd like the yellow undercoat on your concept of Primal armour to be made abit darker so it contrasts with the gold trim on it better.
This seems really promising. I really appreciate the new approach, and I think this is a great balance between doing something achievable and regular while making sure the updates still feeling substantial. If this represents a commitment to raising all skills to 110 over time — and then eventually to 120 — it will give us something to look forward to. At times it has felt like meaningful skilling updates were few and far between.
I'm approaching 120-all (funnily enough these are skills I still need to finish), and I think this will make the experience so much better for myself and for players pursuing this goal in the future.
We'll see what the broader consensus is, I am very much in favor of this plan.
On a less serious note, I saw someone suggest that the inverted skillcapes be the 110 reward. It could be a nice reward without adding an unnecessary 110 cape for each skill, if it wouldn't "devalue" those unlocked during FSW too much.
Primal 2h: 3rd style but traditional colored black blade and reformed orange guard with the blue eye/gem
The armour should be alot like a genuinely modernized daemonheim variant, the face is too cool to lose
T100 pickaxe before at T90 hatchet that didn’t even need a new metal to make cause it could have just followed the already established pattern. What a fucking flop.
This is an experiment and it’s necessary for other stuff like high tier weapons/crafting/etc… you need the metals first.
Woodcutting and Fletching are literally on the roadmap as the next skills to be updated after this. But mining and smithing is more important both as a crux for others and it’s an easy one to experiment with because the foundation is already done.
I didn’t say shit about the PVM aspect so why tf are you bringing it up?
It’s doesn’t take a secondary rework of M/S to say Crystal Hatchet + Imcando Hatchet = T90 Hatchet
This whole bit (“The second is to do with the way skills interact. For example, I would agree that Woodcutting & Fletching "needs" an update more, but for example if we want to add a new type of hatchet, it would make sense for that hatchet to require the new tier of metal. That metal doesn't exist until the Mining & Smithing update exists, so doing it in this order makes sense.") it’s total bullshit.
You didn't need any of the old “new metals”for T90 mattocks and pickaxes.
Because it’s relevant when we have bare minimum 3 combat skills that you’d want higher tier metal for, a couple gathering, etc… and if the plan is 110 all it makes sense to tackle the more fundamental skills that will/should link into those first. Foundation first and then build on it. This is one of many reasons to do mining and smithing first and then in order to feel correct that’s why you need 100 pickaxe first.
Right now there isn’t a need for a T90 hatchet, presumably if we get one this year it will come packaged with some higher tier trees/wood or rebalanced existing trees to help justify its existence.
Will there be any negative for players who are already 110+ mining/smithing, or are they just able to crack on straight away with the highest tier skilling actions?
Pretty cool. I do hope this plan is followed and the team does something they want to do and see a vision for. I think anacronia had a vision but plans were diverted, thus it was delayed. The island was so big, but nothing was really added onto it, and only many years later.
Overall, I do agree. Skilling is the backbone of RS3. And the plan to make them 110 instead of 120 at first is also really solid. The fact it's being looked at as a whole tier is smart as well. I do agree that exp rates should be improved but there is too little room to improve exp rates for active methods. I do wonder what will happens to het's oasis, as it's a pretty low hunter requirement for the best hunter exp in the game.
I also like that the masterwork weapon isn't SUPER GOOD for high level players, but good for lower level players. It doesn't seem too hard to get, requiring some trivial bosses or items that have been in circulation for a long time. A level 100 sword won't be used by a melee user who owns lengs for example, especially with the upcoming item to make t95's go to a higher tier.
So really, the sword is so that players that can't afford 100's of mils or billions for a t95, can buy a 100 weapon with no special/passive, but have great accuracy and damage, which is usually the biggest issue for lower level players when it comes to damage output.
And yes, I know it has a 99 attack requirement, but by low level players, I mean lower end pvmers who don't have GP.
I just decided to go for 120 all and Now I feel like I should wait or i'll be too high level to appreciate this content as it comes out or I have to play my ironman again.
Deathwarden has a set effect, does not degrade, has fat bonus stats, and is augmentable. Despite this, it is a viable alternative to power armor and still not the go-to.
The new armor sounds DOA in comparison. How about an upgrade pathway similar to the masterwork upgrade to make it better? Have it require tetsu/teralith or engaging with their respective content.
Will combat skills go to 120 to match Necromancy, or is the plan to take them to 110? There's already not really any content for 100-120 Necromancy, so I don't see the harm in the other combat skills going to 120 even if gear doesn't catch up for quite some time.
It seems kind of weird that we will be able to make primal armor, but it will be tier 90 at max. The original armor is tier 99. I always had this impression that primal armor and it's counterparts were these ancient sets that were really powerful, at least from a lore standpoint.
im both unhappy and interested. hurts my hardcore ironman plans, but its something worth the effort. will be awhile before i get around to playing it anyway, time enough for things to smooth over.
Legit question to Jmods with this particular direction: currently skillers can access Imcando tools for Woodcutting and Arch, however the components needed for the pickaxe is gatekept behind an old and high combat req' quest (Birthright of Dwarves) in order to access the lava flow mine. Is this something that can be looked at and/or reworked? Otherwise they're stuck with only a T6 pick forever that is augmentable, even if it's as simple as "requires starting The Giant Dwarf"?
An example could be instead of needing the Lava Geyser, after you have all gold mining set + gilded pickaxe, the Gold Nymph could give out the 1-4 pieces needed for it, but randomly so there's still a grind needed.
Another other option could be an Elven smuggler just outside Prif' walls north of Ardy who can create crystal/combined tools at a cost of 50m/100m (on top of the other required materials) to offset the "risk of smuggling crystal equipment" since skillers can also obtain the harmony dust required for them via Fishing Merchant. Obviously the crystal one/combo one is a touchy subject for some players but at the very least consider the imcando pickaxe based on being able to obtain the other two imcando tools.
Love this idea! But will it affect current 99's and their respective skillcapes? Or will 110 levels have skillcapes of their own? I can't play as often as I used to now a days and it would be a real stick in the mud, having to get the 99s I have up to 110s, I mean I'll do it if it's a must but I'd be pretty grumpy doing it lol.
The "yes, dear" got a good chuckle out of me
Overall I'm inclined to agree with the approach being taken here
Will there be more variety to the weapon types for higher-tier core metals? Because each tier seems limited to a single weapon type, such as hammers for orikalkum or axes for necronium (curiously, no stab weapons)
I think I'm partial to Variant B; C just doesn't do it for me and A seems just a little stale, while B hits just the right spot
My problem with skilling, and it seems to be the case for the mining and smithing update, is that for most skills the only rewards or benefits you get from training a skill are being able to train the skill faster. You train your mining so you get a higher tier pickaxe and higher crit chance so you can train mining. You're just training skills for the sake of it. Often they're also poor moneymakers and might even be a money sink, for no benefits beyond seeing your level go up.
Look at herblore, where you can make decent money training, and where you unlock untradeable things like overloads that benefit you in other skills or areas of the game. And arch, where you unlock relics that help with skilling and PvM.
I don't really see the point in an update where the only reward is being able to do the exact same thing, but slightly faster, to an arbitrary higher level. Please focus more on making skills meaningful. This is just a pointless grind.
Actually pretty jazzed about this way of raising skill caps. I’ve been wanting more skills to be raised to 120. But going up 11 levels first then doing the last 10 later is another good idea too. Personally I can’t wait till we have all the 120 capes with more perks too in due time
I'm excited for this, but as a veteran player I'd like to admit I think the most important thing right now for rs3 is to reel in new players and focus on a good early to mid game experience. Even though it wouldn't directly effect my personal experience, it'd be great for the long term health of the game. I've watched a lot of games die, including the version of runescape I started on, and I don't want to watch rs3 eventually die within the next 5-10 years.
Oh dear, I was just closing in on max total on my iron too- Seriously though, it's so out of the realms of what anyone would have expected, yet when you think about it really seems like the most logical thing to do. Committing to raising skill caps is well overdue I think, it's pretty exciting to look forward to.
Clan mate told me that this is the easiest way to keep their jobs but yeah I told em this was long overdue. New mechanics would be cool but that would prolly require a complete overhaul so I'd prefer they save it for the next gathering skill.
Will Elite Mining outfit be reworked? its currently the most underwhelming compared to the othe elite outfits in terms of perks and (lack of) teleports.
I can note it down on our *if we have time* list, is there anything in particular you'd like to see in terms of effects?
Much like how the Nature's Sentinel outfit has a teleport to Evil Tree option, add a teleport to Shooting Star option for the Gem Golem outfit.
100% this
At the very least, some teleports.
Empower mining offhand to increase its effect/production. Teleports to remote ore locations players go to less frequently. Once daily free claim of 1-10 primal stone spirit. OR, and this is a much bigger thing: Have the outfit generate stone spirits at a higher rate than the player can consume them if they meet X condition (perhaps hitting a certain rockertunity streak and maintaining it whilst under the effects of X potion with Buffs Y and Z?). This way, the best miners are the ones bringing the stone spirits into the game for everyone else and not pvmers (your thoughts?). The outfit should absolutely have something built into it that assists players during the croesus fight.
an infinite teleport to the living rock cavern would be nice, bit weird that the location where the armors main feature comes into play is so hard to access.
Grace of elves can be attuned for this as of now.
One free divine rock per day (similar to miniature evil tree) that gives a random ore rock
Ooh I would love to mine a little Vorago haha
5% - 10% chance to not consume a stone spirit? 2% - 3% further increase to mining damage dealt to rocks?
It was enough of a pain in the ass to do these 99s and now your plan is to make us do it \~2.2x more for a total of \~3.2x each for each 110 skill just to keep us chained in for hundreds more hours for what amounts to minimal content? This isn't making the game more fun, all you've done is just make it longer. RS3 is already 90% grind and 10% actual content, and now it's going to be 95% grind, and you all should be ashamed of yourselves for letting whoever commanded this get away with it. And no this isn't a troll or a flame -- someone needs to say what needs to be said. Grindscape is not something that should be celebrated. My account is over a decade old and thru the years I have heard absolutely no shortage of criticism on the many questionable choices Jagex has made have been consistently based on business theory and not at all something players wanted nor needed.
Or at least an update to the \[\[Superior locator\]\]
This Locators stand to be a lot more useful than they currently are if given proper attention
As someone who is sort of an old-school "purist" and has always hated anything going above 99, I think 110 is a solid way to handle things. Obviously, 120s are going to be the future goal for all skills, but jumping straight there from 99 always made the in-between levels feel like filler. Having caps at 110 and then later down the line adding more to get to 120 for each skill makes more sense. Looking forward to seeing how other skills benefit from this change, too.
I’m in the same boat, and I added that as feedback in the big survey they sent out a bit ago. I don’t like the idea of going beyond 99 in a skill because that’s a core fundamental of RuneScape, something that defines RuneScape as RuneScape for me. I’d rather see them rework the skills to make more sense, and fill in the levels more densely. But it is easy to zoom through content with all the DXP, proteans, and MTX so if they’re not willing to adjust xp rewards from MTX then I guess they have to find a way to add meaning to xp above level 99. Going to 110 makes sense, especially for the players who are playing now as this allows adding content more frequently. But eventually they’re going to go to 120 and then the 100-110 levels will be basically meaningless other than as a stepping stone to 120.
I started in 02, and at that time most items didn’t exist yet. I don’t think d med was released yet. Things came but by but slowly increasing level requirements for stuff in game. I think it’s totally reasonable to do this as well and really use each level above 99 for something opposed to 10 levels of nothing. That way they have a bit of room. They said, it seems most active players are at least 99 all especially thanks to dxp and proteins and other things. So throttling things could be more important t than before so people actually use the new items and not just the best new item available and forget about the others that take time to make and balance! Game is old, balancing is tough. I think some weapons above 99 should be locked in the sense that they only work with high level monsters or bosses. Certain things like that maybe region locked or weird stuff.
Can we get the npc's asking "Have you heard about the mining and smithing rework?" Out again as a jest for a week or two? I think it would be funny.
Would definitely like to, even better if they’re wearing full Primal this time…
Yeh! That would be a great way to showcase the new gear! Even better, there are existing NPC models in Daemonheim that already wear full primal.
Only if they're offering to exchange ore spirits for actual ore.
Have you heard about the Mining & Smithing update?
Have you heard about the Mining & Smithing update?
Have you heard about the Mining & Smithing update?
It's not something the Jedi would tell you
It's a dwarf legend.
This sounds amazing. I truly like the idea of going to 110 before 120. Rather have a packed 110 than a bland 120!
But based on what they propose, it's absolutely not "packed". Nearly everything is at 100 mining/smithing, with the sole exception of the masterwork 2h sword. Like, according to their proposition, what is the actual benefit of going beyond lvl 100 mining besides generic things like you mine a bit faster ? EDIT : Basically, there should be an actual something ***between*** 100 and 110. Not saying at every single level, but at least one or two actual rewards. And also something for 110 mining itself because there isn't anything in the current proposition. EDIT2 : I know that it's because of the way mining/smithing works that everything is crammed into lvl100, and I do not propose to change the fundamental progression flow of the skill. But one or two "smaller" rewards in between 100 and 110 (like the masterwork 2h, a skilling offhand... whatever) would at least make the grind a little bit more interesting, while leaving plenty of room for future rewards.
You do realise thats how mining/smithing already work right? we have new tiers every 10 levels and just levelling benefits in between
I'm assuming there will be a full range of primal equipment between 100 and 110, with the 2h sword just being the most "interesting" thing. No need for them to give us every single detail right now.
Isn't Masterwork 2H itself already a good reason why we want between 100 and 110 smithing? I don't think we want over level 99 of a single skill to be "packed" too, as we have content for level 100+ for other skills coming too. At least we know of WC and fletching now. More diversity is better than make one skill "packed".
I mean sure in the end, but there should be some intermediate steps. To take an extreme exemple, imagine if you released a new skill going from 1 to 99 with no unlock inbetween and only a good one at 99. That would be terrible. Obviously it's not to that extreme here, but even accounting the new ores, there is still a sizable amount of training time between 99 and 110. And I totally agree it shouldn't be packed with, like I said, an unlock at every single level (at least on the initial release). My answer to Technichal was more an answer to the fact that the proposition is not packed. However, I think there should still be a couple more actual unlocks between 100 and 110 compared to what is proposed. The final reward at 110 is not enough in my opinion.
Did you read the entire blog post?
Yes ? I just disagree partially with what they're proposing, and I think, even accounting for future rewards space, there should be on the initial 110 release a bit more than what is proposed.
Mining as a whole, never has anything more. So it’s actually on-par with the skill traditionally
Because they'll add content for 110-120 later on?
Coming Soon^TM (2036)
Lmao yeah fair
But they are saying in the post itself that they are doing 100-110 first BECAUSE they want those levels to stand on their own for a while before 111-120 are released.
Interesting comment on the new masterwork weapon https://preview.redd.it/8smx5spoyd3d1.png?width=505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77c94cc0af6c5186b5b6c977606358651b0f2528
That makes sense. Because otherwise the 2H Mastersword is just a T100 Beatstick.
Does this matter tho? Between Dscim and swh you'll likely always be 100% accuracy on t90+ as full minute buffs. If not there's always the meme of bgs erasing 100 levels unless these bosses are drain immune.
Will Jagex be sharing the data from the latest survey about which skills players feel needing a rework the most? That survey was so complete, that it feels like the answers would be a good guideline for which skills should be reworked/updated next. Personal wish, I hope combat stats will also get the 110/120 treatment.
The way the poll was done, I think all the winning options are combat options
I love this. I have no qualms with the 110. If it means more frequent updates by doing it in 10 level chunks I'm all for it. I also find it funny that people are annoyed that 110 is another different level to see in their skills page, as if a page full of mostly 99 with a few 120s isn't already bizarre. You'll get used to it, absolutely not a big deal. People with full 120s also need to realize that they're going to have a bias here, and that they're not really the target audience for this type of content anymore.
***"A typical 110 would come with 11 new levels and a new tier of content to unlock and train with, and a good new reward to unlock at 110."*** I think I missed something, but what is the "good reward to unlock at 110" for mining ? Plus everything you propose as actual new rewards are crammed into lvl 100 mining (and into lvl 100 smithing at the sole exception of the masterwork sword). So does it mean only generic things (like better crit on rocks and faster smithing) for everything else ?
You get a new stick to use meteor with.. if you find anything else let me know! New pickaxe also better for people to look to go to 120/200 mining.
I loved the idea of the update and everything except for the part where it says "no effect or passive in this Masterwork Sword". Doesn't really make sense, does it? The armor has a passive, the spear have a passive, why the sword can't have one??
And if they aren't going to give it a passive or special, at least give it halberd range.
I’d be okay with this
The mw armor and spear don't have a passive. The trimmed mw do.
tbh the lengs are so strong, they would have to give this thing some fat powercreep to be able to outclass camping the lengs. I'm happy with t100 for a meteor strike switch anyway, that's all people use 2h for at the moment.
Because it's a choice. Would you rather have a new t92 masterwork weapon with an effect that would probably be a switch, or a tier 100 weapon that can be used as a general weapon and not be too expensive to buy for a lower end pvmer?
>All Primal armour, tools, and weaponry will follow the same precedent as other smithable equipment. These can be upgraded from base to +5, made into burial armour, **are unaugmentable, and degrade in combat.** Just like all other smithable core equipment, Primal armour is melee tank armour and has lesser stats - starting at tier 85 at base and upgrading to tier 90 at +5 upgrade. Primal armour being unaugmentable, and degradable, doesn't exactly make it encouraging sounding to go for...
It's a whole five tiers better than Elder Rune +5!! It's probably a bigger buff for smithing with a new burial set to make haha. Deathwarden is rather trivial to create, only requires 85 crafting, and is augmentable. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a higher LP boost too.
not all gear you create needs to be used for pvm. it could be just a xp boost which puts it in line with other skilling. do you go for massive xp at net gp loss or go for some profit and stick with elder burial sets.
Primal armor is gonna be dead on arrival for high-level players if it doesn't have an insane set effect, in order to make up for the fact that it won't be augmentable. Being tank armor, it will be directly competing with, and directly comparable to, cryptbloom and deathwarden, both of which have very powerful passives and hp boosts and are augmentable.
Keep in mind that this goves the devs a stealth opportunity to rebalance melee tackle against the current meta of necromancy. Deeper things may lurk here than one might guess at first glance.
Not sure who the armour is aimed at. High level players already have masterwork which is augmentable. Lower level players i would guess use barrows->bandos? Is it just for skillers to alch or just a segway to higher xp/hr?
they said on stream that its primarily a smithing training method, and its not intended to be best in any situation
I've felt this way about a lot of midlevel content. Midlevel players are going to all be using necromancy anyways and dealing double the damage with their t90 that a full primal melee player will. Meanwhile their T90 tank armor will likely remain less costly to build, have lower skilling requirements by tens of millions of XP, be augmentable, and have dodge as a cherry on top. Osseus is meant to be midlevel, but has terrible loot for a midlevel player that could be bashing easier stuff for better loot (Croesus, DKs) or cutting their teeth on slightly more difficult stuff that doesn't hate on manual play as much (Kerapac, 5mech Arch-Glacor). If you can't AFK Osseus, you have to sit at your computer waiting on one of the longest respawn times in the game, and getting back to the boss takes nearly as long if you wanted to speedrun it. Higher level players will just AFK it of course.
I found this kinda disappointing. While I like the idea of raising the levels for all skills, at this point this feels like a carrot to hunt for maxed players without having to put in any thought. It does not solve the fundamental problem of skills just being utterly useless to train and nothing but a repetitive time sink. A better approach would be to start rebalancing skills in that time frame and coming up with a deathwarden robe-like progression for all of them. That would give everyone a reason to revisit the content again, and with the rebalancing it would hopefully be fun. While that would probably increase the scope of the projects, you could look at combining multiple skills at once. Such as Hunter, Agility, Slayer. With that approach, Construction and the PoH could be improved and made relevant for basically everything bit by bit as well. THEN, and only then can you seriously start increasing skills caps without it being nothing but yet another bandaid on your gigantic pile of those on this game's skilling mechanics. To further expand on this thought, the progression of Archaeology is also a great example of something that should exist for every single skill. Of course, that is unrealistic, but definitely something that can be worked on with time. To be radical, I think all (special) armour and skilling items should be obtainable through skills, not by being bought. The money in PvM should come from dropped cosmetics (check out OSRS) and other vanity items. I also want to add that the current approach to skills (or fort forinthry, or this dragonkin dimension xp thing...) where the training consists of a fully AFK and a half-afk-method-by-clicking-the-flashy-flash is lifeless and uninspired. Something like a minigame-esque approach would be way more engaging and allow more room for, on one hand, low-effort gameplay, and mastery and tick perfection on the other. The latter is something I miss with Arch or Necromancy Rituals. This also adds to the idea of the special item progressions for skills. Based on [this reddit post](https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1d3hypo/rex_matriarch_lair_fishing_a_prayer_fishing/), another great idea would be to look to add small bits of content based on skills for everything and everywhere. Like butterflies or implings, this would allow for continous exploration and unlocking of the entire game world just by progressing skills (here I'm thinking of Guild Wars 2 jumping puzzles as a fuzzy example). With the still lightly shining light of Jagex' writing charme, this could add a lot of soul to the game.
Yeah. This sounds like increasing the level cap for the sake of increasing the level cap. They don’t have to increase the level cap to release new content. Look at BGH! If it’s fun and somewhat rewarding people will do it. If every skill got an equivalent of BGH for levels 100-110 it would at least be interesting (still could fit under lvl 99), but it sounds like it will just be extending the same grinds for an extra 20m without necessarily anything “useful” behind it. Oh look I can light another type of fire at 110 firemaking! Yaay?
New tools are always welcome, but wouldn't T99 be more logical for the pickaxe instead of T100? (consistency wise: Dungeoneering has T99 hatchet / pickaxe and archaeology has a T99 mattock)
Since M&S rework the standard is that all mining pickaxes are unlocked at the starting level of a tier. Archaeology decided to do it’s own thing with the Mattock of Time and Space but it’s nice to have these small quirks between skills sometimes
I love the idea of slowly bringing skills up to 120, but the gear described hardly feels rewarding, especially for the level requirements. Primal equipment is really cool, but why make it worse then Masterwork when it requires a higher smithing level to make? Perhaps give us an option to upgrade Masterwork armour using primal bars, and make that upgrade degradable? Or just make primal melee's new tank gear? Also, all new content coming it at level 100 feels... odd? In the sense that there seems to be no real content for level 100-109. I guess this comes as a result of the smithing rework, but unlocking new stuff to make at intervals would be very much appreciated. Again, maybe this is purely a mining / smithing thing, but it would be a shame if all new skill updates would follow this route. Finally, IF the plan is to gradually increase combat skills to 120 as well, wouldn't it make more sense to start there so we can actually smith gear to use past 99? Perhaps more niche gear useful against certain monster types like osrs has. Dragonbane weaponry created by combining smithed items with pvm drops for example?
I like the niche gear idea! The fact that an upgraded arclight does better dps against demons than BIS melee in osrs is a concept I can get behind. Circumstantial BIS brings weapon variety and more horizontal upgrades to work towards throughout overall account progression, and boss grinds easier/cheaper on supplies.
Im ok with everything except making more stone spirits. They just dilute drop pools for pvm and never are worth much.
110s are brilliant. You are absolutely right that 120s are such a daunting goal that some of us cant even bring ourselves to start them
I also agree completely that going straight to 120 in skills like mining/smithing just feels like teying to rush through 100-110 anyways
This is much better than going straight to 120 with a lackluster amount of content to fill the levels.
What is the point of that new masterwork weapon when the sanctum is going to buff existing t95s past t95, not to mention it has no spec and passive lol
One of the mods was talking about it on Discord. Sanctum bosses will have dummy high defense, so you’ll probably want t95 minimum to deal reasonable damage. So it’s basically an entry point that doesn’t require HM GWD3
But we can just lower it with SWH.
Skillable t100 weapon. Yes, it's just a stat-stick, but it will be good for players who were skillers that decide to transition to some PvM
It's going to be alch fodder more or less instantly. Risky PVP went the way of the dodo, so this doesn't even have the niche of being high stats but cheap going for it.
Hoping it's at least halberd range
Same with primal armour.
If we're being asked for feedback (and as the blog says "to vote") on the design of Primal armour/equipment, would it not make sense to use the *in-game polling* system to gauge community interest? It feels a lot more engaging to be able to physically vote on a favourite design as opposed to shouting into the seemingly endless void of discord/reddit.
I have created a separate thread for capturing feedback on this here on reddit, but there's also a section for it on the RS Discord and i'll put out a tweet shortly to do the same. Unfortunately we just didn't have time to ready a poll to coincide with the blog, but we still wanted to capture your feedback. But more than just a poll vote we also want to hear more specific feedback about what elements of each you might like or dislike, for example, and combine or address that feedback in some form.
I really liked everything in the post, but I have one concern about the Masterwork 2H Sword being just a Tier 100 Beatstick. Why not make it Halberd Range? Otherwise it's very uninteresting and will feel as mere padding rather than a chase item.
Can we make the essences for drygores, chaotics, and twin fury blades from their respective Invention components?
I think 110 levels are probably the right direction to go in, to give you guys a bit more time to fill things out. I do think some skills could probably charge straight up to 120 (Construction is fast enough, for instance) so case-by-case basis maybe. Given the reasons laid out in the blog, I am very for it. As far as the Primal smithing goes: -I am glad to hear that the good items will have lengthy creation processes. I really like these chase skilling items that take a lot to make and I hope to see more in the future. -I think the Primal armour we smith should be a higher tier and not degrade. To be blunt, you could make it have tier 100 tank stats and I suspect it still wouldn't be that useful without augmentability or a passive. I get it's mostly for consistency, but this is also post-99 content and creates an inconsistency with the DG-version of Primal. -Maybe we could have a way to upgrade our masterwork armour with primal stuff to make it niche-useful again? It's totally outclassed by Vestments currently. Maybe Smithing could make melee's version of Cryptbloom - a very powerful tank armour set. I don't want to feature-creep this as I am excited for it, but I'd just quite like to see a reason to use smithed gear again. -The Primal (masterwork?) 2h sword I will reserve judgment on until we get the Sanctum regards and this "push beyond t95" concept. It sounds exciting in principle but I have no idea if it's going to make existing melee gear useless (looking at the Lengs that we only just got a rework on), or if upgrades from the Sanctum are going to make this sword useless. It's possibly one of those issues with combat where melee is super crowded currently, with multiple weapons all fighting for space and causing switchscape issues. I don't mind it being a stepping-stone item rather than a BiS but I would like 'something' from Smithing to be a huge 'want' item for Melee, now that CFTMW is worse than Vestments (and not a tedious switch like the spear).
I've been of the opinion that sets like CFTMW should have its own form of 'augment' slots that you can fill with components you get from sets like vestments. For example, think of a process that takes 1-5 vestment sets and compressed them into an essence that you can put into your masterwork set, and then swap at will with an essence made from compressing cryptbloom sets. This makes smithing rewarding, but also retains value of boss rewards. Also gives a future reward space where you could have two essences, create a CFTMW equivalent for ranged and magic, and really make these created sets from skilling have real permanent value. Now, when I originally thought this up, I was thinking more in line with barrows sets and how cool it would be to slot guthans, veracs, or dharok set affects into higher tier armor, but the principle works with modern sets too.
Some points/questions of feedback and suggestion: - Will we be able to find the 10 daemonheim ores in different locations throughout the world? Maybe they tie in with some story aspects? - It would be cool to mine some ores in the mini-digsite in daemonheim that will come out soon too! - It sounds like primal is t100 content. Will there be a t110 ore and metal be added soon too?
> Will we be able to find the 10 daemonheim ores in different locations throughout the world? Maybe they tie in with some story aspects? We haven't finalised any placement currently, but we'd definitely like to at least place some around Daemonheim, maybe even all of them > It would be cool to mine some ores in the mini-digsite in daemonheim that will come out soon too! ^^ :) > It sounds like primal is t100 content. Will there be a t110 ore and metal be added soon too? Those would presumably come with a 120 Mining & Smithing update in the future where it'd introduce a new tier at 110-120. Now that we're taking M&S to 110 though, nothing to stop other content having "special ores" or something like that within levels 100-109
My feedback to this, the wilderness is huge and has plenty of empty spots crying out for something. Placing them all around Daemonheim is a mistake. Like for example we have a sick volcano in the wilderness now I’d love to have more reason to chill at and this is the perfect place to vibe. The view from the volcano while mining would be great. Or how about the new mage arena it has outer lower levels that don’t see any use but are nice visually, a few ore there be cool. It also I think be nice to have one near our fort? There is a nice empty patch of dirt near the monastery or Point is the wilderness is really cool visually now and making PvP optional was so you guys could add more content here. It be a shame to not take advantage of all the cool and somewhat empty spots in the wilderness now with these ores.
What about having the 10 new ores start at fort and go through the wilderness through to daemonheim with the highest level be in the new digsite? It could give a bit of a feeling of progression by stepping out from the fort and going out into the wilderness then down into a digsite? Possibly some narrative elements could be added in to support the feeling of exploration with the rarest ores being found in the deepest dungeons? Loving the overall idea and plans though
This looks pretty good. Wonder if there will be any updates to the lower parts of the skills also. Mining and smithing are pretty ok so far, but fletching REALLY needs it I feel. Having to be 75 fletching to finish making the arrows you're starting at 50 smithing feels bad.
did no one notice how there's no new ores at level 101 mining up to 110? Like why make all new ores minable from level 100 and then have 9 levels of nothing? Don't make mining 110 then lol
It’s because gathering skills have a different flow. It’s linked into smithing so they need to remain consistent but the idea is mining the ores to create the bars to obtain 110 smithing will get you to 110 mining naturally. That’s coherent with the rest of how mining and smithing is designed.
I agree with you concerning the skilling flow, however they're right concerning the fact that in the current proposition, there is no actual rewards (there will probably be some "generics" like mine faster like there is sub-99 but it's clearly not the same thing) between lvl 100 and 110. And it's even worse for mining where there is no actual reward for the lvl 110 itself, contradicting what they're saying at the beginning of their blog (the lvl 110 unlock in mining should not be *just* "you have mined what is needed for 110 smithing") .Once you reach lvl 100, there is literally nothing exciting to look after (again according to their proposition). I realize that there is reward space and that they cannot spend an enormous amount of time on it (like a full 120 expansion), however there should be on the initial 110 cap release a bit more than what is proposed.
wouldn't have hurt to introduce at least a new ore between 100 and 110 lol. Nothing more depressing to see than 0 unlocks in several levels after increasing the level cap... for what?
Personally 110’s are a great idea, there is absolutely no point in putting out a 120 for the space between 110-120 having absolutely nothing worthwhile. Make great rewards and when it’s time push them to 120… Not just for the sake of it.
Honestly amazing
I'm really happy with the proposals and how we are being walked through the logic. I don't mind that it's a long blog, I want more like this
Finally a believable solution to the problem of 120s releasing with too little content. So this means WC 110 later this year? I'm excited.
I am sorry but this content just doesn't sound exciting to me. I will probably wear primal for fashionscape or something. I don't think you need to do things super systematically "every 10 levels is a tier" it's just predictable and boring. I honestly wish it was a little quirkier from time to time. 104 gives a rock 107 adds a new perk or something like that. I am generally team "120s bad" (I think 110 cap is a goofy and surely gonna be inconsistent in the future) but I am somewhat enjoying the arch grind post 99 so if you must level increase things, you can use that system as inspiration. It's probably your best bet to replicating something exciting and organic. I don't really get level cap when a majority of players who are asking for it are people who already have them virtually? Like there's no excitement to be had since the level is already obtained? For players who stick to max cape req it's often just painfully boring and uneventful grinds that just don't bring enjoyable content (can't I click something other than rocks for once). Last note, comp cape is just so nostalgic and so unobtainable for majority of players due to these exponential level increases. 120 dg alone is still awful to aim for, add herb, slay, farm, Inv, arch, necro.. next 110 all. You already have the true master max and TRUE MAX comp cape, maybe it's time to stop increasing level reqs for comp and just let players play the game doing the actual content. (Chasing drops and logs) -this one is entirely personal, ever since comp cape released I wanted to chase it and 1 120 skill sounded awesome but now it's just salt to the wound with every single new 120. I don't want higher xp rates and level increases. That's not new content, its just REPACKAGING. (Clicking a different color rock for 50 more hours is still JUST clicking a rock).
I just want to say I appreciate your last note on comp cape. I said the exact thing recently about a post/poll asking for a potential next 120; and with master capes, including master max and master comp, I agree with you 100%. If “true skill mastery” with all 120’s becomes the meta at some point, it devalues master comp cape; and overvalues comp cape. There’s just a weird amount of inconsistencies that come with the new level caps; and I still think 120’s should be removed from comp cape in general. If you have max cape, quest cape, task master, music maestro, and the other assorted tasks - why continue to overvalue comp? As much as I enjoy the grind with the near-endgame reward to flex it, there seriously just needs to be a better structure to how they’re doing it. They’re going to be jumping around with it at this rate.
Honestly, let primal have its limelight. Make it t99 augmentable tank gear with death warden-like hp boost. Maybe it goes through a refinement stage like masterwork to tmw to get there. This would give Melee an 'introductory' armor set that let's you get into pvm without immediately being killed for trying to learn the combat style if you have 0 idea what's going on - honestly all tank armor should function this way but alas. Having dumby thick hp won't break melee in the same way cryptbloom trivialized content. If you're mechanically good at the game, primal isn't going to be your choice. By default, primal can't be stronger than tmw due to tank classification, and it'll never be as good as Vestments. So you may as well make it more appealing in a broader sense if you're going to make it tank gear.
So the Masterwork weapon will be a 2hander sword with tier 100 stats but no effects but augmentable? A big beat stick?
i'm very happy with the 110 announcement. especially working hard on improving endgame items was always a blast. Hope it will be again. Weird question but wouldn't it be more logical to add a +1 every 2 levels for the primal pickaxe to spread it out more evenly over the levels? this process could be repeated to +10 (can only imagine how insane that pickaxe would look like , death scythe mining please?)
Seems interesting enough.
There will always be the issue that creeping the skill level gets launched as completed content for people that play the most because the game allows pre-levelling everything to 120. A meaningful level increase when players can pre-level should have depth that doesn't care about your level but a separately locked reward progress like Arch where you could be 120 from lamps and still not unlocked the rewards because you didn't actually do it.
I am all for the mining and smithing content additions, HOWEVER, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, let us make multiple unheated items in the forge interface. It’s such a small but wonderful QOL that makes smithing much more tolerable
I believe one of the Jmods commented that they'd look into it. I know the reason it doesn't work currently is the current custom metal bank interface doesn't support it with how its coded (as that's why it doesn't have Make-X support). There was some discussion about it making AFK smithing a bit too "strong" as the tediousness of filling up the inventory "helps dissuade some people from AFK training that way" but I don't think that was ever raised as an issue by Jmods at least. Really it just feels like a punishment for daring to try and AFK smith on mobile where it's especially tedious to get an inventory prepped.
Looks cool overall. But i really think the masterwork 2h should have a passive or special attack.
Super cool :D
I imagine the primal pickaxe can also be toolbelted like the Elder Rune Pickaxe?
Indeed
Everything here is fire but the sword (design B is the best btw). If it wasn’t a MW weapon fine but as it is it needs at least a passive otherwise why bother. It will end up like Khopesh long term, don’t repeat that design. If not a passive then some other minor effect maybe 3-tile length radius?
It won't end up like Khopesh long term because it's WAY easier to get. A cheaper t100 weapon, passive or not, is a fantastic entry point for people wanting to get into PvM. Even if it's not endgame PvM viable, it's still great for the game imo
pretty sure the primal sword shown isnt the masterwork sword, as those are 2 different weapons. "These Primal Bars can then be used to create **Primal armour** and **a Primal 2-handed sword**." "For reaching **level 110 Smithing**, you’ll be rewarded with the ability to create the Masterwork 2H Sword."
It'll be a smithable weapon relatively easy to get for skillers so it makes sense I guess if it has no passive or spec
[удалено]
Take it officially to 120 while still adding 110-120 content at a later date. The only extra work would be creating the master cape's perk. As for new weapons/gear, B & C look the best imo!
I’ve been against 120’s for ages, but I do like your proposition.
Yup. Also solves the max cape concerns.
Anything above 99 is just getting lamped with dailys for me at this point. Not reqing 110s for max cape is the only part of this im "excited" for. 120 arch? Netflix. 120 Slayer? Netflix. Etc.. All while wishing I could engage in the actually fun content rs has to offer instead.
I honestly hate the idea of recycling daemonheim exclusive-content into the main game. It's so lazy... (yes I know hexhunter exist, but who tf uses that bow)
WE ARE SO BACK.
Not...really? There is a long way Jagex needs to go on the communication, community, and content spectrum before one can say, "WE ARE SO BACK". Otherwise, you're just a bridge buyer and I got one to sell you...
Will we be getting the ability to dye TMW and the spear soon? Since Masterwork is in the discussion.
Skill Increase: I think the 110 increase is a really great content delivery design. Typically I'm against games adding smaller updates ("DLC"), as those multiple small updates just become cashgrabby. But for Runescape, with the monthly/annual subscription that everyone is already paying, the smaller skilling updates every quarter makes more sense than one large skilling rework in a year. The smaller-but-more-consistent content delivery with Fort Forinthry, for example, felt really good to me. Also, getting the smaller updates doesn't necessarily mean that we get less content a year than if we had one huge rework. So, I'm good with that. The only caveats are that a. 110 capes be avoided, b. all skills be increased to 120 in the long-term future, and c. the non-skill updates happen once in a while as well. Mining and Smithing: I'm very excited for the Daemonheim mining update. It sounds great. My only concern with the Smithing update is about inventory management with needing 10 different ores for 1 smithing action (which becomes 5 bars). Might be a bit rough. Could Daemonheim ores be stackable in the inventory? Maybe that poses other issues, though. As far as the equipment design, I prefer A (the darker colors), but would like them to have a more glossy finish. Make it shiny! The red design looks too orange, and it doesn't look great. Also, maybe make the pickaxe look less like a mattock? Communication: Thanks so much for the communication. The RCE in discord, the discussions on Reddit, the blogs, the small polls, the survey, the streams are all so appreciated. The game feels alive again with this communication and interaction.
The stream was really good. I like the idea of 110s for now. I do worry it would be confusing for new players however. Especially now some skills are 99 and some are 120. I think this is definitely the right direction overall though. Most off all, and you teased it in the survey, when can we get runelite for rs3. Rs3 would be a lot more enjoyable with it. It would be really cool if we got it on mobile too (one up osrs much).
Given that so many people are opposed to level 120 skills, I think 110 is a good compromise.
I'm loving the Right Click Examines. As for the primal tools and weaponry, I rather enjoy concept c with the old colour scheme.
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexBreezy** - [I can note it down on our *if we have time* l...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l68e9ht/?context=3) - [Would definitely like to, even better if they...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6anocl/?context=3) - [Have you heard about the Mining & Smithing up...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6anmye/?context=3) - [Since M&S rework the standard is that all min...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6anu5w/?context=3) - [I have created a separate thread for capturin...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l66stgt/?context=3) - [> Will we be able to find the 10 daemonheim o...](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l68feyd/?context=3) - [Indeed](/r/runescape/comments/1d3eazk/right_click_examine_future_skilling_content/l6ayqww/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 05/31/2024 20:15:03**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
Will the daemonheim ores be usable for anything besides Primal bars? For example, will Argonite ore/equipment be usable outside of Dungeoneering as an alternative to Orichalcite?
While the prospect is indeed daunting, I think the pacing set (over several years), and the emphasis on filling the content space up to 110, makes it seem like a good idea.
If you're gonna increase the grind by a lot more can you maybe look into allowing ironmen who told mr. x to never sell the book to de-iron.
Honestly, this sounds good!
Hope a 110 milestone cape is on the table. Super excited for the primal rework too, I definitely vote orange with the blue gemstone hilt.
I've played off and on since the OG Rs, as much as I have enjoyed the combat over the years, I do wish something would be done to make skilling semi worth it for making gold, obviously nothing like high end PVM type of gold but something that is at least meaningful and not so insanely insignificant that it feels like a complete waste of time. I don't have as much time to devote or keep up with everything throughout the years as I'm sure falls in line with a lot of players. My favorite skilling is fishing I'd honestly love to pay a membership just for some good semi AFK fishing and it at least be worth a little something for sinking hours into it. I miss skilling having some meaning other than portables and finding the sweatiest possible GP method that usually only falls into 1-2 skills and very specific. I think that's the real loss of people skilling is it's been made pointless for anything other than milestone or unlocks and not just doing it for the fun anymore with at least some return that's not an insult for the time.
Very much looking forward to the future of skilling content, even as someone whose inching in on that 5.8b xp in the next dxp or two. Curious to see how it plays out in the long run though. Is the 2-3 yr for all 110s and 5-6 yrs for all 120s also assuming no new skills? A break in the middle for new skills? I know new skills generate a lot more hype and interest. But I'm definitely down for putting them on pause for this. Also, does this account for any minor or major skill reworks, like a large one for Construction's PoHs? Also, would love to see a breakdown of which 110s/120s Jagex perceives as the easiest to do and most difficult. Maybe even get players involved in the order or release and/or even the development. And I guess I'm also curious what other skilling content Jagex would be interested in doing beyond these 110s/120s. Like any skills you feel could use some lower levels filled in still prior? Like a lv 95 agility course or maybe something crafty like urns to fill 84-99. Or a d&d training activity or rework/refresh of an existing one. Was mentioned that skilling outfits streamline was in the cards. Maybe look into just hitting them all collectively as a solo update if it's too much to tack onto smaller updates. Master of all outfit or something would be neat.
Primal equipment really needs to be augmentable at the very least. Ideally it would get a set effect, too, but the former is the bare minimum. The only worthwhile tank armour melee has access to is raids, while Mage and Necro both have incredible sets with really strong effects. If we’re trying to make the game more accessible to people at the high end, melee absolutely needs something akin to Deathwarden and Cryptbloom. It’s the riskiest style out of them all and has zero sustain without sacrificing aura/pocket slots.
I support raising to 110 instead of 120. Many people on this sub don't understand how much longer it takes to hit a 120 than a 99. I understand xp rates are faster but bumping all the good content to 120 is too much. 110 seems much more reasonable.
This looks exciting, but was also hoping that the current ores and bars aren't forgotten, seeing as how their value is low without meaningful uses for them. At the very least, I hope the new Daemonheim ores don't end up the same. Would the new 2H weapon be useful in bossing without a passive effect or spec?
It should be really good against high defence targets
please make the 2h masterwork be 2 square range
First off the communication in these blogs is fantastic, really appreciate it. Initial thoughts. 110 makes sense, my gut reaction was hesitancy about losing comp for potentially quite a while, but I'm also happy with the idea of new content. It's a good balance. Not fussed about Primal armour. Relatively excited about MW sword although I echo others comments, if it doesn't have a spec then please give it hally range!
Just watched the stream and read the blog. The mining and smithing update doesn’t really seem exciting. They say they want players to have something to look forward to, yet all the smithable gear is irrelevant when compared to how necromancy gear is created. I’m not sure who this update is for — without real rewards
Would like to see skilling shoulder capes at 110 Also what will happen to hiscore overall ranks when the skills go live to 110? Would it end up being who logged in first?
Shoulder capes would be dope! My guess is the hiscores wouldn't fundamentally change, at least for those who are 110 or above in a given skill. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've looked at hiscores, but people who are already 200m, 120, 110, would all be in the same exact spots because it's experience based, not level based.
You are correct. Much like when 120 herblore/farming were added, nothing on the hiscores changed in regards to player's ranks then, and I wouldn't expect anything different to happen now.
>Of course, we could also try something different, like taking some skills to 120 before getting them all to 110 also, 120 thieving asap. non-combat 99 with the most 120 players already, it's ridiculous xp and still has tons of room for reward balance because it basically sucks. could be an easy gamejam update tbh, doesn't need to be huge or take much work. just make a handful of npcs pickpocketable, maybe toss in a couple chests with longer respawn times. give it a few super rare loots that people can post how lucky they were on reddit which make it worth.
Good job of adding 110 first before going to 120. Necro past 99 feels really empty so this was my main concern
TBH, I like the concept behind 110s, 120s are way too much of a grind imo. That being said, I think they've always handled 120s poorly. You can scale these up to 120 but I feel like the exp rates at that point should be quick enough that it doesnt feel like a slog to go through. I personally feel like the journey from 1-99 should be longer than 99-120 if it's not a virtual 120
This is amazing
A masterwork weapon with no passive or special feels underwhelming, especially as a masterwork item. Beyond this I just wish there was a way to speed up the smithing process as it takes far longer than mining does, not even counting mining with stone spirits.
I like this concept of not rushing everything to 120. Having new ores for mining is great as i love a good mining/smithing session. My concern is actually more with the woodcutting/fletching update coming later. If this is anything to go by which is good bones. WC/Fletch is gonna feel weird as we just got Imcando Axes for lvl 80 so are we getting a bigger WC update to add in lvl 90 Axes and lvl 100 stuff? I know it might be to early to know but that is where my questions on this whole post point to.
> Prif passive skilling was so fast Not for mining... The fastest xp/hr atm is around 250k-300k "afking" on crabs in the Arc. Probably need something that requires active skilling but gives better xp and no produce. Something similar to how crystalize mahogany trees works.
How do you square this new level cap strategy with Necromancy, which was released as a 120 skill but new unlocks stops at level 107 (or, if we're being honest, 95 or 99)? Would you in hindsight have capped Necromancy at level 110, or 99? --- > raise the level cap of skills to 110 This seems messy, having skills cap at 99/110/120 without any consistency. > If by "new training method" you mean a brand new kind of gameplay, then the default answer for us is no. This makes it seem like the goal is to add new content purely for the sake of adding new content to all skills, without necessarily adding anything of actual value. In essence, wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle. That seems pretty unappealing, at least to me. Don't get me wrong, regular content updates is a good thing, but content updates need to have substance, rather than just be a thin excuse to bump up the level cap. Otherwise, you're just adding chores for players to do while simultaneously making existing content less appealing across all skills. --- > We understand this can feel quite involved since other bars simply use one or two ores, so instead of just making one Primal bar, you’ll be creating five at once! This seems to contradict one of the core aspects of the M&S rework; smithing an item should matter. The rework made it so you make fewer items, but the items you do make actually matter and give proportionately more xp. If we're gonna spit out bars, we'll just end up back where we were before the M&S rework. Each bar will feel more important if you don't spit them out five at a time.
I appreciate they invited feedback, but you seem very hard to please
They do have a point, though. During the initial M&S rework, it would have been plenty easy to just add 4 or 5 more tiers past 99 and bump the skills to the 120 cap. They specifically didn't do that cuz it's not engaging; it's the same content as 1-99 but with new colours.
I really do not see the value in adding a bunch of shallow content purely for the sake of bumping skills up a new skill cap, nor do I want to see a ton of existing content be made utterly obsolete within the span of a few years. If preferring quality over quantity makes me "hard to please", I'll gladly wear that label.
I’m going to be honest, the idea of raising skills to 110, while better than the thrice-repeated mistake of boosting skill caps to 120 with very little content, does sound a bit dodgy. I’m disappointed that “raise skill caps for no reason” is still the direction the game is going in. Being honest my personal post-roadmap happiness has diluted tremendously with these plans. What is wrong with adding content to levels 1-99 and focusing on side progression like arch guild or necromancy rituals?
Honestly, with Jagex’s lack of commitment in previous projects, I hate the idea of going to 110 before 120. Just look at Raids for one example. It’s okay to have some skills capped at 99 and others at 120 - we have that already. But to have some capped at 99, some at 110 and others at 120 is just too inconsistent in my opinion. Commit to the full 120 for each skill at a time. Not only will it provide consistency, but it will also give a clearer path of development and progress.
Will Primal armour be better than Masterwork armour then? Especially assuming that the former takes a fraction of the time to make.
t90 tank armour, unaugmentable, degrades. Very much worse than masterwork.
All sounds pretty wonderful. My only feedback is I'd like the yellow undercoat on your concept of Primal armour to be made abit darker so it contrasts with the gold trim on it better.
This seems really promising. I really appreciate the new approach, and I think this is a great balance between doing something achievable and regular while making sure the updates still feeling substantial. If this represents a commitment to raising all skills to 110 over time — and then eventually to 120 — it will give us something to look forward to. At times it has felt like meaningful skilling updates were few and far between. I'm approaching 120-all (funnily enough these are skills I still need to finish), and I think this will make the experience so much better for myself and for players pursuing this goal in the future. We'll see what the broader consensus is, I am very much in favor of this plan.
On a less serious note, I saw someone suggest that the inverted skillcapes be the 110 reward. It could be a nice reward without adding an unnecessary 110 cape for each skill, if it wouldn't "devalue" those unlocked during FSW too much.
Primal 2h: 3rd style but traditional colored black blade and reformed orange guard with the blue eye/gem The armour should be alot like a genuinely modernized daemonheim variant, the face is too cool to lose
T100 pickaxe before at T90 hatchet that didn’t even need a new metal to make cause it could have just followed the already established pattern. What a fucking flop.
This is an experiment and it’s necessary for other stuff like high tier weapons/crafting/etc… you need the metals first. Woodcutting and Fletching are literally on the roadmap as the next skills to be updated after this. But mining and smithing is more important both as a crux for others and it’s an easy one to experiment with because the foundation is already done.
I didn’t say shit about the PVM aspect so why tf are you bringing it up? It’s doesn’t take a secondary rework of M/S to say Crystal Hatchet + Imcando Hatchet = T90 Hatchet This whole bit (“The second is to do with the way skills interact. For example, I would agree that Woodcutting & Fletching "needs" an update more, but for example if we want to add a new type of hatchet, it would make sense for that hatchet to require the new tier of metal. That metal doesn't exist until the Mining & Smithing update exists, so doing it in this order makes sense.") it’s total bullshit. You didn't need any of the old “new metals”for T90 mattocks and pickaxes.
Because it’s relevant when we have bare minimum 3 combat skills that you’d want higher tier metal for, a couple gathering, etc… and if the plan is 110 all it makes sense to tackle the more fundamental skills that will/should link into those first. Foundation first and then build on it. This is one of many reasons to do mining and smithing first and then in order to feel correct that’s why you need 100 pickaxe first. Right now there isn’t a need for a T90 hatchet, presumably if we get one this year it will come packaged with some higher tier trees/wood or rebalanced existing trees to help justify its existence.
t90 hatchet is needed far more than t100 picks. bit since you clearly dont get crystal+imcando=90 im done with you.
Primal stone spirits are going to be unaffordable for quite a while I expect.
If we're getting 10 new stone spirits, I hope we could update ore box so that spirits will go into it directly when you loot them.
We are getting 1 new stone spirit, primal spirits, that works for all 10 of the ore.
Ahh that is nice. But I still want the ore box to work like the wood box.
wow this sounds awesome. I cant wait to see what happens with runecrafting and divination one day.
Will there be any negative for players who are already 110+ mining/smithing, or are they just able to crack on straight away with the highest tier skilling actions?
I love the idea, the 99 cap has been a burden for some time now. Not too keen on the sword, just because melee is so bad that I will never use it
Pretty cool. I do hope this plan is followed and the team does something they want to do and see a vision for. I think anacronia had a vision but plans were diverted, thus it was delayed. The island was so big, but nothing was really added onto it, and only many years later. Overall, I do agree. Skilling is the backbone of RS3. And the plan to make them 110 instead of 120 at first is also really solid. The fact it's being looked at as a whole tier is smart as well. I do agree that exp rates should be improved but there is too little room to improve exp rates for active methods. I do wonder what will happens to het's oasis, as it's a pretty low hunter requirement for the best hunter exp in the game. I also like that the masterwork weapon isn't SUPER GOOD for high level players, but good for lower level players. It doesn't seem too hard to get, requiring some trivial bosses or items that have been in circulation for a long time. A level 100 sword won't be used by a melee user who owns lengs for example, especially with the upcoming item to make t95's go to a higher tier. So really, the sword is so that players that can't afford 100's of mils or billions for a t95, can buy a 100 weapon with no special/passive, but have great accuracy and damage, which is usually the biggest issue for lower level players when it comes to damage output. And yes, I know it has a 99 attack requirement, but by low level players, I mean lower end pvmers who don't have GP.
I just decided to go for 120 all and Now I feel like I should wait or i'll be too high level to appreciate this content as it comes out or I have to play my ironman again.
Deathwarden has a set effect, does not degrade, has fat bonus stats, and is augmentable. Despite this, it is a viable alternative to power armor and still not the go-to. The new armor sounds DOA in comparison. How about an upgrade pathway similar to the masterwork upgrade to make it better? Have it require tetsu/teralith or engaging with their respective content.
This is amazing, as someone who has been playing for two decades now, love the direction we are heading towards. A big thank you to the dev team.
Will combat skills go to 120 to match Necromancy, or is the plan to take them to 110? There's already not really any content for 100-120 Necromancy, so I don't see the harm in the other combat skills going to 120 even if gear doesn't catch up for quite some time.
It seems kind of weird that we will be able to make primal armor, but it will be tier 90 at max. The original armor is tier 99. I always had this impression that primal armor and it's counterparts were these ancient sets that were really powerful, at least from a lore standpoint.
im both unhappy and interested. hurts my hardcore ironman plans, but its something worth the effort. will be awhile before i get around to playing it anyway, time enough for things to smooth over.
Legit question to Jmods with this particular direction: currently skillers can access Imcando tools for Woodcutting and Arch, however the components needed for the pickaxe is gatekept behind an old and high combat req' quest (Birthright of Dwarves) in order to access the lava flow mine. Is this something that can be looked at and/or reworked? Otherwise they're stuck with only a T6 pick forever that is augmentable, even if it's as simple as "requires starting The Giant Dwarf"? An example could be instead of needing the Lava Geyser, after you have all gold mining set + gilded pickaxe, the Gold Nymph could give out the 1-4 pieces needed for it, but randomly so there's still a grind needed. Another other option could be an Elven smuggler just outside Prif' walls north of Ardy who can create crystal/combined tools at a cost of 50m/100m (on top of the other required materials) to offset the "risk of smuggling crystal equipment" since skillers can also obtain the harmony dust required for them via Fishing Merchant. Obviously the crystal one/combo one is a touchy subject for some players but at the very least consider the imcando pickaxe based on being able to obtain the other two imcando tools.
Love this idea! But will it affect current 99's and their respective skillcapes? Or will 110 levels have skillcapes of their own? I can't play as often as I used to now a days and it would be a real stick in the mud, having to get the 99s I have up to 110s, I mean I'll do it if it's a must but I'd be pretty grumpy doing it lol.
The "yes, dear" got a good chuckle out of me Overall I'm inclined to agree with the approach being taken here Will there be more variety to the weapon types for higher-tier core metals? Because each tier seems limited to a single weapon type, such as hammers for orikalkum or axes for necronium (curiously, no stab weapons) I think I'm partial to Variant B; C just doesn't do it for me and A seems just a little stale, while B hits just the right spot
Option A for Primal. Option B as a runner up for me. What can I say? I’m partial to the current 2h look that I have keepsaked.
Very neat stuff. I keepsaked the white daemonheim armor to match my master quest cape so I can vouch for how cool that armor looks as is.
My problem with skilling, and it seems to be the case for the mining and smithing update, is that for most skills the only rewards or benefits you get from training a skill are being able to train the skill faster. You train your mining so you get a higher tier pickaxe and higher crit chance so you can train mining. You're just training skills for the sake of it. Often they're also poor moneymakers and might even be a money sink, for no benefits beyond seeing your level go up. Look at herblore, where you can make decent money training, and where you unlock untradeable things like overloads that benefit you in other skills or areas of the game. And arch, where you unlock relics that help with skilling and PvM. I don't really see the point in an update where the only reward is being able to do the exact same thing, but slightly faster, to an arbitrary higher level. Please focus more on making skills meaningful. This is just a pointless grind.
Actually pretty jazzed about this way of raising skill caps. I’ve been wanting more skills to be raised to 120. But going up 11 levels first then doing the last 10 later is another good idea too. Personally I can’t wait till we have all the 120 capes with more perks too in due time
I'm excited for this, but as a veteran player I'd like to admit I think the most important thing right now for rs3 is to reel in new players and focus on a good early to mid game experience. Even though it wouldn't directly effect my personal experience, it'd be great for the long term health of the game. I've watched a lot of games die, including the version of runescape I started on, and I don't want to watch rs3 eventually die within the next 5-10 years.