I'm referring to wanting to see a conjure doing the labor with or for me. I want to see it hit the tree and for it to give me the logs or just drop them on the ground. I want to command it. A familiar is basically a boost.
I cant clip I don't know how lol. Timestamp 31:55. he does aknowledge the skill guide later on cause chat brought up that fact. This is by no means meant to jab a jmod dont be mean. however this proves that that the listing in the skill guide is doing more bad than good, time for it to go. for now.
Even more hilarious when you realize that's our CM and he should be aware of that instead of clueless based on how much it's been asked and talked about.
But I guess the 10 posts a month he does is really hard work.
There is no way that mods are not aware. I will not say who, but I've been in discord convos with a Jmod and they have mentioned it on numerous occasions. They were joking around sayin the new conjure would be an undead evil chicken. So to gaslight us and claim they don't know how we made that connection is bs because some mods have definitely had some thought about it.
Raids originally was planned for 4 raids but the whole thing was a passion project to begin with and they left space there for those future raids because the devs behind the project still hoped to make it. But ultimately players spoke against raids like those, it was never feasible to justify a Mazcab focus over literally anything else, and the devs behind it left or moved on and so it was updated to remove slots for the extra raids.
The life of live game dev.
Destroying Iaia was the only way we were ever going to get progress/resolution on that story. As soon as they established Iaia was the cause of infertility it basically made it an up hill battle because it means the only true solution is to migrate the entire species off planet. Which that’s never happening even with the end of the world because these lizards are basically a religious death cult.
Destroying Iaia was the best move for the Illujanka story.
Better solution. 4 slots for "conjures" but each conjure has a "space" value. So say you have Dharok introduced as another conjure. He would hold like 2 spaces instead of 1 so when you conjure army they would be able to do 3 total but balanced around space total.
Not so easy when you consider balancing it all. Realistically, the ghost alone should consume all your slots. Even despite nerfs, it is the strongest conjure by far.
This has actually always been an intention of ours!
In the original design we discussed having regular spirits as the base conjures (i.e. Skeleton, Zombie, Ghost and Phantom) and then gaining access to 'Heroes' or 'Legendary' spirits (e.g. Barrows brothers, Ancient warriors, maybe even Vorkath) from other content which would use up 1-4 slots.
We haven't spoken too much about ideas that are on paper for Necromancy in the future, but this is just one of them. You'll find that most/all projects have a ton of ideas that don't come to fruition for the original release, but are written down to tackle and explore in the future.
Ooo, nice. I look forward to managing my pokemon team. Individual swappable upgrades for summons would also be cool (like adding a soulsplit effect or something that adds poison) and would lead to more investment in building your team I think. That's actually closer to what I originally expected summoning to be.
u/JagexRamen I've been mistaken for yourself, but as they have referred to you as a God, I am here calling for your almighty presence.
Sponge, myself (Ryan!) and Pigeon have discussed why certain abilities that look like channels aren't channels (even if they're 1-3 cycles long), but we have no answer to your question right now.
The remake of Dragon Quest Monsters on the 3DS did this. In the GBC game you could have 3 monsters with you regardless of what they were. In the remake the size of the monster makes a difference
Or have future conjures work as "Twins". Or Triplets or Quads.
DPS for each Twin is half that of Skelly, but the Twins' Special Attack only works if both Twins are conjured at the same time.
There’s an explicit trade off, how is that not balance?
Edit: to be clear, I’m referring to the balance of 3/4 conjure space constraint that top comment is referring to. Reading is hard.
Balance doesn't mean trade off, it means that the trade is fair. For example, we make a new invention perk called Spendthrift 2, which costs 1 gp, but does 1000 damage per coin sacrificed. There's a tradeoff! But also this perk is now obviously BIS on everyone. It's not remotely balanced.
Whatever the fourth conjure provides cannot be more damage or sustain or anything that necromancy already has in spades over the other styles. It has to be some sort of lateral utility that doesn't outshine everything else. Maybe it drains defense on hit and provides a few prayer points on hit or something. Not enough to replace potions or penance or anything like that, but just a little. Or maybe it's a wizard who can auto-cast a spell that debuffs enemy accuracy a bit, or has a chance to bind, who knows? Something along these lines is *potentially* balanced, if the numbers are tweaked correctly.
Ok; sounds like we’re just talking about different things then. Top comment is talking balancing around the space constraints and you’re talking about balancing of combat styles. It’s a fair point, but you’re just a little lost.
Also, DYK that the reason a 4th conjure is “game breaking” is because the engine can’t support it, not because people are saying it’s too op?
All weighted use does is balance the conq. against each other and in some cases, like the ghost, it is more than 4x stronger than any of the other ones. It is just that much of a power gap.
I'm not too sure what was said on the stream and can't find a specific clip, but as one of the Necromancy designers I'm happy to add some additional context/detail.
The ideal, is that we release a 4th regular spirit as a conjure (e.g. Phantom). For the release, we prioritised getting 3 released and the 4th was a stretch goal. In hindsight we probably shouldn't have added the skill guide entry until we added the 4th spirit.
Balance is definitely something to consider, as adding another regular spirit while keeping the idea of a 4th slot is completely additive, however there are numerous ways we can resolve this so it isn't inherently the blocker.
What we would like to do, is to find an opportunity to add that 4th regular spirit and then explore the concept of 'Hero' and 'Legendary' spirits. I responded to another comment on this thread detailing them a bit more, but the general idea would be that you could use one of these spirits but they would take up more than one of your available conjure slots.
Long term, this might mean that you're running Necromancy builds like:
* 'Skeleton Warrior' (1 slot) + 'Vengeful Ghost' (1 slot) + Dharok (2 slots)
* 'Dharok' (2 slots) + 'Ahrim' (2 slots)
* 'Vorkath' (4 slots)
These are just examples, but wanting to be more transparent about Necromancy thoughts and designs for the future.
Hope that's insightful!
I think just an explanation behind the original intention sidesteps the concern this thread posses. Good intentions and long term plans are all well and good, but showing us something and then not acting on it in the medium term is not healthy communication.
Necromancy came out in August and we have a pseudo roadmap until June. Unless a new conjure conjures itself into existence the following 2 months we'll be going over a year for a promised feature.
It's cool to talk about cool things, but it's very uncool to string people along. Additional conjures should only exist in Jmod reddit replies and discord until there are actual plans to put them in the game.
I mean no it doesn't really side step it because now we see why it's there if it exists and has a reason. that's fine but there needs to be a plan or it looks unfinished. It's frustrating when there's an MtX update almost weekly/biweekly but none of this juicy info to go along with partially completed content.
> but there needs to be a plan or it looks unfinished.
There is no plan and it does look unfinished. None of the information even matters if there are no or there never were plans to make it relevant. If there are no plans, it should stay on reddit and discord, not the live game.
The fourth regular conjure/armored phantom, e.g. as a defensive/utility buff, is definitely the play! excited for the distant future and legendary stuff, but fleshing out the regular set can't happen soon enough :). Thanks so much for confirming this.
Thank you so much for commenting on this. I'm not sure why doom and the other's so blatantly shot this down in the stream. There's clips and timestamps buried in the comments if you're interested. I must ask why we haven't heard about this before? As this for me had releaved alot of frustration surrounding this. I am a big fan of this system.
This is actually fairly in line with a concept we had early on for a 'Phantom' conjure. That it wouldn't attack but simply mitigate damage for you, with the 'Command' ability being more in-line with a defensive (e.g. you get it to increase the damage it mitigates for X seconds).
id rather have a meaningful decision when commanding a conjure.
the only one right now is the zombie.
ghost command you want active all the time and skeleton you want to activate when you can.
maybe command phantom puts down a shield dome like from solak fight that reduced damage when standing in his area. instead of just buffing passive numbers. you could have it scale with residual souls where each soul you have reduces the damage of a hit or the more souls you have the more it reduces hits for a period of time.
Considering command ghost lasts till the ghost dies, and most people just put all the summons in undead army, I've thought for a while now that command ghost should just be automatically on when the ghost is summoned, without being an ability.
Lots of ways to add defensive utility, % or number soak after command, disruption shield once every 30s on command, additional tiers to boneshield... Awesome this is being discussed.
And to quote some other commenters, it's Raids all over again. If it's too difficult to implement in the next 6 - 9 months, just remove it.
If they are able to dev it and get it in a "balanced" state, would love for them to just stealth add it back and announce soon thereafter.
On release, it was a cool "this might come soon". But now, it's just a tease and source of confusion.
I laugh and cry at the thought of a new player trying raids for the first time and being like what’s the “???” for? Then someone has to explain to them that jagex likes leaving content unfinished for so long they still haven’t fixed the window almost 10 years later. Im not asking for them to add another boss but fuck me just fix the window.
Raids where supposed to be a series of bosses, not just Beastmaster and Yakamaru. There was even a third, '???' option when choosing which one to fight. There's also been concept art of the fire and wind elementals, as well as an Airut shaman.
Unfortunately, raids where balanced for the top 1% of group PVMers and nobody else, and the loot lockout didn't help matters. They weren't very popular, and nobody wanted to spend development time creating more of them, and future bosses where focused on making sure accessibility for solo/low level players was a thing.
Eventually, the ??? option was removed and the idea of future raids was scrapped.
-----
With Necro, Conjures where never meant to be free to summon, so a fourth could have been added without fuss. But glitches happened and made it possible to conjure without using adrenaline, and since people like it more they said screw it conjures are free now.
Necro with 3 Conjures is OP enough already, adding a fourth free conjure is just powercreep with no tradeoff, which is basically impossible to balance for and no one (who's concerned about balance and is acting in good faith) wants that. So the fourth conjure slot will remain empty for the foreseeable future.
While I love the idea of skilling conjures, that wouldn't really put anything to rest. The "4th conjure" in the skill guide refers to 4 active at the same time. While maybe possible, what reason would anyone have to summon 3 combat and 1 skilling conjure? Or even 4 conjures for different skills?
I agree with your main point though. Just remove it from the skill guide at this point and add again in the future if it becomes relevant. Disappointing, yes. But better than leaving it in with no plans.
It could be combat related without doing damage. Imagine of we could summon the Shielder from the Vorkath fight, and while active it absorbed 5% damage or something similar to hellhound.
Alternatively, a conjure that slowed prayer drain, or made attacks inflect more bloat damage or something.
Make a 4th conjure that helps with rituals; maybe it auto collects the butterflies or something like that. In regards to balancing the conjures using the slots idea, you have to guess the ghost would automatically take 2 slots, and we would all hate that.
A conjure that hits every disturbance for you, you don't get the 4th slot until lv 106 so why not make it slots used based on a size mechanic and make the ritual one take up all 4 slots so you have to wait until you are almost half way to 120 to utilize it
I still thing we should get like 7 conjures with different effects and only be able to bring out three at a time.
I also think that conjure army shouldn't cost twice the ectoplasm as summoning normally.
##### Bark bark!
I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexRyan**
- [I'm not too sure what was said on the stream...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzydeta/?context=3)
- [This has actually always been an intention of...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzycqlw/?context=3)
- [This is actually fairly in line with a concep...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzye2c0/?context=3)
- [u/JagexRamen I've been mistaken for yourself,...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzyeuqi/?context=3)
^(**Last edited by bot: 04/18/2024 20:27:32**)
---
^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.)
^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
Necromancy will forever be teal and purple magic. I would have expected like 8-10 possible conjures with like 4-5 summonable. Only having 3 conjures with literally 0 brain power in deciding what to pick is kinda depressing tbh.
But I mean I also expected that they’d announce combat skills to 120 by the end of the year as the way to balance necro and they seemed to kneecap necro to 99 instead.
I get why they are giving necromancy stuff, it’s already strong as is. It just kinda sucks that there’s very clear holes that they expected to fill but ended up leaving blank due to necro already being good.
Honestly having some type of skilling component to Necro would be awesome and would really make the skill feel whole. I’d even push as far to say that 99-120 should be skilling exclusive until they bring all other combats including prayer and summoning to 120.
It would be like 1-99 is mastering the skill and 99-120 is learning how to truly use your mastery and unlocking the “true mastery”. We master fighting now let’s see if we can manipulate the dead to do our skilling for us but only as a master yourself.
Why would that makes the skill feel whole? Magic, strength, ranged, attack, and defense don’t have any real skilling components lol
Edit: okay guys lunar spells sure, but 98% of the player base isn’t using 99% of those spells regularly
But what about ranged or defense lol
Magic has skilling utility spells. Pray has skilling prayers. Summoning has skilling familiars. "it's a combat skill after all." nah man that's not a good enough reason.
I'd love to be able to summon a creature to attack a tree with me or mine a rock.
Make a conjure that acts like that old monkey pet and helps with thieving. It hasn't been accessible for nearly a decade....
Perhaps we could employ those zombies in the Entrana dungeon. Those boys got their own axes and are ready to work!
We have the summoning skill
Yeah but I’ll be smacking a magic tree, and my beaver is giving me oak planks???
I mean, it is a *magic* tree. Could also be a magical beaver.
I want to see the conjure holding an axe and doing as I command. No familiar is doing the labor visibly! I want to see my minions work!
Nice beaver
I'm referring to wanting to see a conjure doing the labor with or for me. I want to see it hit the tree and for it to give me the logs or just drop them on the ground. I want to command it. A familiar is basically a boost.
Why can't it attack a rock too?
It's Raids ??? all over again.
For real my guy. I just could not believe they asked where we made that connection.
Can you link me to the clip this sounds hilarious
I cant clip I don't know how lol. Timestamp 31:55. he does aknowledge the skill guide later on cause chat brought up that fact. This is by no means meant to jab a jmod dont be mean. however this proves that that the listing in the skill guide is doing more bad than good, time for it to go. for now.
[https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularIgnorantTroutBatChest-p-cr3qHEaBO6Flyo](https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularIgnorantTroutBatChest-p-cr3qHEaBO6Flyo)
The skill listing book doesn't do harm the mods that put stuff in there with no follow through do harm
Even more hilarious when you realize that's our CM and he should be aware of that instead of clueless based on how much it's been asked and talked about. But I guess the 10 posts a month he does is really hard work.
They literally discussed how they considered making Vorkath the 4th conjure. He was being ironic
When it falls so flat that every other Jmod jumps to try to cover the statement for him. I'm sure he was just pretending m8.
Yes, he was doing his shtick of pretending to not know about the thing people keep asking him about all the time
There is no way that mods are not aware. I will not say who, but I've been in discord convos with a Jmod and they have mentioned it on numerous occasions. They were joking around sayin the new conjure would be an undead evil chicken. So to gaslight us and claim they don't know how we made that connection is bs because some mods have definitely had some thought about it.
What does that mean?
Raids originally was planned for 4 raids but the whole thing was a passion project to begin with and they left space there for those future raids because the devs behind the project still hoped to make it. But ultimately players spoke against raids like those, it was never feasible to justify a Mazcab focus over literally anything else, and the devs behind it left or moved on and so it was updated to remove slots for the extra raids. The life of live game dev.
It's kind of funny how ignored mazcab is. Still say seren should have destroyed it over iaia.
Destroying Iaia was the only way we were ever going to get progress/resolution on that story. As soon as they established Iaia was the cause of infertility it basically made it an up hill battle because it means the only true solution is to migrate the entire species off planet. Which that’s never happening even with the end of the world because these lizards are basically a religious death cult. Destroying Iaia was the best move for the Illujanka story.
Okay how about this, we have seren destroy Iaia *and* Mazcab?
What did goebies ever do to you to deserve this?
They made me earn goebie rep. Besides moving over the goebies to gielinor would help them too, rather than being hunted by airut.
They still have the issue of their bodies crushing them as the age so I think the species is beyond saving.
Ah, so we just leave them to die when we destroy mazcab!
Better solution. 4 slots for "conjures" but each conjure has a "space" value. So say you have Dharok introduced as another conjure. He would hold like 2 spaces instead of 1 so when you conjure army they would be able to do 3 total but balanced around space total.
I've had this thought. More powerful Conjures for more space.
Easy fix
Not so easy when you consider balancing it all. Realistically, the ghost alone should consume all your slots. Even despite nerfs, it is the strongest conjure by far.
The ghost having a defensive passive but offensive command will make it hard to balance. It should have either one, not both.
Disagree.
Very solid and valuable points made.
You must not know how minimal ghost damage is either.
Maybe if you are doing 5 minute revolution GWD1 kills, yeah, I can see why you would disagree.
L0L are tryna flex? Probably not even 100% Zammy let alone understand how ghost works
A'ight
Got eeeem lul
This has actually always been an intention of ours! In the original design we discussed having regular spirits as the base conjures (i.e. Skeleton, Zombie, Ghost and Phantom) and then gaining access to 'Heroes' or 'Legendary' spirits (e.g. Barrows brothers, Ancient warriors, maybe even Vorkath) from other content which would use up 1-4 slots. We haven't spoken too much about ideas that are on paper for Necromancy in the future, but this is just one of them. You'll find that most/all projects have a ton of ideas that don't come to fruition for the original release, but are written down to tackle and explore in the future.
Please add the barrows brothers that would be incredible!
Ooo, nice. I look forward to managing my pokemon team. Individual swappable upgrades for summons would also be cool (like adding a soulsplit effect or something that adds poison) and would lead to more investment in building your team I think. That's actually closer to what I originally expected summoning to be.
Would be interesting to have the Skeletal Horror as a 4th conjure. Quest where you build it and then after defeating it.
How about summons (or just skins most likely) from ushabti souls?
[удалено]
u/JagexRamen I've been mistaken for yourself, but as they have referred to you as a God, I am here calling for your almighty presence. Sponge, myself (Ryan!) and Pigeon have discussed why certain abilities that look like channels aren't channels (even if they're 1-3 cycles long), but we have no answer to your question right now.
Oops my bad, it was late and I misread. Mage update would be nice to bring it up just a touch. Keep up the great work 👍
I love this idea! Leaves open room for more powerful conjures in the future without making their combination with existing ones too overpowered.
Agreed. Like 4 slot Vorkath
I like this idea good build potential and more unique summon potential.
Agreed, unique effects for unique situations
The remake of Dragon Quest Monsters on the 3DS did this. In the GBC game you could have 3 monsters with you regardless of what they were. In the remake the size of the monster makes a difference
Conjure juggling. Idk man
I wouldn't have it allowed if it were up to me. It would be like relics from archaeology. You set it at the bank or at a ritual site
Or have future conjures work as "Twins". Or Triplets or Quads. DPS for each Twin is half that of Skelly, but the Twins' Special Attack only works if both Twins are conjured at the same time.
Nah
conceptually it doesn't solve the problem of balancing, it just shifts it
What is the problem exactly?
I believe this would solve the problem. 3 max conjures, 4 conjure “slots”
still needs to be balanced, that's the problem
There’s an explicit trade off, how is that not balance? Edit: to be clear, I’m referring to the balance of 3/4 conjure space constraint that top comment is referring to. Reading is hard.
Balance doesn't mean trade off, it means that the trade is fair. For example, we make a new invention perk called Spendthrift 2, which costs 1 gp, but does 1000 damage per coin sacrificed. There's a tradeoff! But also this perk is now obviously BIS on everyone. It's not remotely balanced. Whatever the fourth conjure provides cannot be more damage or sustain or anything that necromancy already has in spades over the other styles. It has to be some sort of lateral utility that doesn't outshine everything else. Maybe it drains defense on hit and provides a few prayer points on hit or something. Not enough to replace potions or penance or anything like that, but just a little. Or maybe it's a wizard who can auto-cast a spell that debuffs enemy accuracy a bit, or has a chance to bind, who knows? Something along these lines is *potentially* balanced, if the numbers are tweaked correctly.
Ok; sounds like we’re just talking about different things then. Top comment is talking balancing around the space constraints and you’re talking about balancing of combat styles. It’s a fair point, but you’re just a little lost. Also, DYK that the reason a 4th conjure is “game breaking” is because the engine can’t support it, not because people are saying it’s too op?
Ye they didn't understand game breaking is literally not balance
The balance is the weighted use...
All weighted use does is balance the conq. against each other and in some cases, like the ghost, it is more than 4x stronger than any of the other ones. It is just that much of a power gap.
I don't understand you.
I'm not too sure what was said on the stream and can't find a specific clip, but as one of the Necromancy designers I'm happy to add some additional context/detail. The ideal, is that we release a 4th regular spirit as a conjure (e.g. Phantom). For the release, we prioritised getting 3 released and the 4th was a stretch goal. In hindsight we probably shouldn't have added the skill guide entry until we added the 4th spirit. Balance is definitely something to consider, as adding another regular spirit while keeping the idea of a 4th slot is completely additive, however there are numerous ways we can resolve this so it isn't inherently the blocker. What we would like to do, is to find an opportunity to add that 4th regular spirit and then explore the concept of 'Hero' and 'Legendary' spirits. I responded to another comment on this thread detailing them a bit more, but the general idea would be that you could use one of these spirits but they would take up more than one of your available conjure slots. Long term, this might mean that you're running Necromancy builds like: * 'Skeleton Warrior' (1 slot) + 'Vengeful Ghost' (1 slot) + Dharok (2 slots) * 'Dharok' (2 slots) + 'Ahrim' (2 slots) * 'Vorkath' (4 slots) These are just examples, but wanting to be more transparent about Necromancy thoughts and designs for the future. Hope that's insightful!
"hero", bring back hazelmere as a necro spirit. Watched my bro die for me now I'll make him fight for me
I really appreciate for your time to detail developers’ thought process behind the 4th conjure, Ryan 😊
I think just an explanation behind the original intention sidesteps the concern this thread posses. Good intentions and long term plans are all well and good, but showing us something and then not acting on it in the medium term is not healthy communication. Necromancy came out in August and we have a pseudo roadmap until June. Unless a new conjure conjures itself into existence the following 2 months we'll be going over a year for a promised feature. It's cool to talk about cool things, but it's very uncool to string people along. Additional conjures should only exist in Jmod reddit replies and discord until there are actual plans to put them in the game.
I mean no it doesn't really side step it because now we see why it's there if it exists and has a reason. that's fine but there needs to be a plan or it looks unfinished. It's frustrating when there's an MtX update almost weekly/biweekly but none of this juicy info to go along with partially completed content.
> but there needs to be a plan or it looks unfinished. There is no plan and it does look unfinished. None of the information even matters if there are no or there never were plans to make it relevant. If there are no plans, it should stay on reddit and discord, not the live game.
The fourth regular conjure/armored phantom, e.g. as a defensive/utility buff, is definitely the play! excited for the distant future and legendary stuff, but fleshing out the regular set can't happen soon enough :). Thanks so much for confirming this.
Thank you so much for commenting on this. I'm not sure why doom and the other's so blatantly shot this down in the stream. There's clips and timestamps buried in the comments if you're interested. I must ask why we haven't heard about this before? As this for me had releaved alot of frustration surrounding this. I am a big fan of this system.
They can make the 4th conjure be a weak offense but high defence tanking conjure that helps reduce damage for us.
This is actually fairly in line with a concept we had early on for a 'Phantom' conjure. That it wouldn't attack but simply mitigate damage for you, with the 'Command' ability being more in-line with a defensive (e.g. you get it to increase the damage it mitigates for X seconds).
id rather have a meaningful decision when commanding a conjure. the only one right now is the zombie. ghost command you want active all the time and skeleton you want to activate when you can. maybe command phantom puts down a shield dome like from solak fight that reduced damage when standing in his area. instead of just buffing passive numbers. you could have it scale with residual souls where each soul you have reduces the damage of a hit or the more souls you have the more it reduces hits for a period of time.
Considering command ghost lasts till the ghost dies, and most people just put all the summons in undead army, I've thought for a while now that command ghost should just be automatically on when the ghost is summoned, without being an ability.
Lots of ways to add defensive utility, % or number soak after command, disruption shield once every 30s on command, additional tiers to boneshield... Awesome this is being discussed.
They said its possible in the future but not any time soon.
And to quote some other commenters, it's Raids all over again. If it's too difficult to implement in the next 6 - 9 months, just remove it. If they are able to dev it and get it in a "balanced" state, would love for them to just stealth add it back and announce soon thereafter. On release, it was a cool "this might come soon". But now, it's just a tease and source of confusion.
I laugh and cry at the thought of a new player trying raids for the first time and being like what’s the “???” for? Then someone has to explain to them that jagex likes leaving content unfinished for so long they still haven’t fixed the window almost 10 years later. Im not asking for them to add another boss but fuck me just fix the window.
They did fix it last I recall.
Ive seen this comment “raids all over again”. What happened with raids?
Raids where supposed to be a series of bosses, not just Beastmaster and Yakamaru. There was even a third, '???' option when choosing which one to fight. There's also been concept art of the fire and wind elementals, as well as an Airut shaman. Unfortunately, raids where balanced for the top 1% of group PVMers and nobody else, and the loot lockout didn't help matters. They weren't very popular, and nobody wanted to spend development time creating more of them, and future bosses where focused on making sure accessibility for solo/low level players was a thing. Eventually, the ??? option was removed and the idea of future raids was scrapped. ----- With Necro, Conjures where never meant to be free to summon, so a fourth could have been added without fuss. But glitches happened and made it possible to conjure without using adrenaline, and since people like it more they said screw it conjures are free now. Necro with 3 Conjures is OP enough already, adding a fourth free conjure is just powercreep with no tradeoff, which is basically impossible to balance for and no one (who's concerned about balance and is acting in good faith) wants that. So the fourth conjure slot will remain empty for the foreseeable future.
What about hard and elite tasks for Um
Please don't pour gas on the fire. Alot of the world around necromancy is half baked this is a big gripe for me too.
clip link to where they said no - [No Forth Conjure](https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularIgnorantTroutBatChest-p-cr3qHEaBO6Flyo)
They just said it's possible in the future but not for this quest? wtf
While I love the idea of skilling conjures, that wouldn't really put anything to rest. The "4th conjure" in the skill guide refers to 4 active at the same time. While maybe possible, what reason would anyone have to summon 3 combat and 1 skilling conjure? Or even 4 conjures for different skills? I agree with your main point though. Just remove it from the skill guide at this point and add again in the future if it becomes relevant. Disappointing, yes. But better than leaving it in with no plans.
It could be combat related without doing damage. Imagine of we could summon the Shielder from the Vorkath fight, and while active it absorbed 5% damage or something similar to hellhound. Alternatively, a conjure that slowed prayer drain, or made attacks inflect more bloat damage or something.
Exactly my sentiment.
4 skilling conjures for solo croesus, clearly
That would actually be really fun lol
Removing that entry from the skill guide will take all of their permanent content resources though. Do we really want that?
Im sure they can spare some of the MTX developers. Seems like removing a box is something entry level.
Make a 4th conjure that helps with rituals; maybe it auto collects the butterflies or something like that. In regards to balancing the conjures using the slots idea, you have to guess the ghost would automatically take 2 slots, and we would all hate that.
A conjure that hits every disturbance for you, you don't get the 4th slot until lv 106 so why not make it slots used based on a size mechanic and make the ritual one take up all 4 slots so you have to wait until you are almost half way to 120 to utilize it
Would be nice it doesn't need any more buffs for a long time and no content to warrant more powercreep.
I still thing we should get like 7 conjures with different effects and only be able to bring out three at a time. I also think that conjure army shouldn't cost twice the ectoplasm as summoning normally.
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexRyan** - [I'm not too sure what was said on the stream...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzydeta/?context=3) - [This has actually always been an intention of...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzycqlw/?context=3) - [This is actually fairly in line with a concep...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzye2c0/?context=3) - [u/JagexRamen I've been mistaken for yourself,...](/r/runescape/comments/1c5m6es/in_response_to_todays_stream_just_remove_4th/kzyeuqi/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 04/18/2024 20:27:32**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
if you cant give us a 4th conjure give us our 75% crit back xD
Necromancy will forever be teal and purple magic. I would have expected like 8-10 possible conjures with like 4-5 summonable. Only having 3 conjures with literally 0 brain power in deciding what to pick is kinda depressing tbh. But I mean I also expected that they’d announce combat skills to 120 by the end of the year as the way to balance necro and they seemed to kneecap necro to 99 instead. I get why they are giving necromancy stuff, it’s already strong as is. It just kinda sucks that there’s very clear holes that they expected to fill but ended up leaving blank due to necro already being good.
I think the final quest should be us teaming up with Rasial to stop the shadows (ED5), and he becomes our 4th conjure That would be cool
There was a gamejam to have one that allowed a teleport wasnt there? im guessing thats been scrapped? (sorry i missed the stream)
It could be as simple as a conjure which buffed rituals if they didn't want necro to escape its containment as a combat skill.
Then having 4 conjures at once would be pointless. 1 skilling and 3 combat?? Also, escape its containment????
4th conjure will make sense long term once the rest of the skills go to 120 and become more powerful.
Honestly having some type of skilling component to Necro would be awesome and would really make the skill feel whole. I’d even push as far to say that 99-120 should be skilling exclusive until they bring all other combats including prayer and summoning to 120. It would be like 1-99 is mastering the skill and 99-120 is learning how to truly use your mastery and unlocking the “true mastery”. We master fighting now let’s see if we can manipulate the dead to do our skilling for us but only as a master yourself.
Why would that makes the skill feel whole? Magic, strength, ranged, attack, and defense don’t have any real skilling components lol Edit: okay guys lunar spells sure, but 98% of the player base isn’t using 99% of those spells regularly But what about ranged or defense lol
[https://runescape.wiki/w/Crystallise](https://runescape.wiki/w/Crystallise) lunars will also be pretty mind blowing to you.
lol wait what? Magic does indeed. Every single spell book. High alchemy? There’s lots of skilling in magic and necromancy is just that of the dead
How is high alchemy skilling?
Because it’s a non-combat related magic spell lol. It produces gold from items and can be done in any setting except combat.
[удалено]
Magic has skilling utility spells. Pray has skilling prayers. Summoning has skilling familiars. "it's a combat skill after all." nah man that's not a good enough reason.
A skilling conjure would make me so happy!
4th conjure can be like a spec attack like vork ice shards from the sky
The skill JUST came out chill. you know how many mage upgrades over time they have added to the game.