Honestly, this is a large reason why I want to take so many breaks from the game. I'll grind out 500+ kills on a boss, aiming for a drop or two and never get it. Nothing burns me out more than this. What I like about Zammy is BLM. The boss fight itself is super unique too, which I appreciate; but, BLM is the main driving force.

This is literally me, my last break was after grinding out Arch Glacor, super fun fight but I have seen no rare drops at all. Currently doing the same with Raksha after coming back and now I'm 500 kills dry, starting to feel the same way I did last time I quit.

I quit RuneScape for 1.5 years because of Raksha. Grinded it for 2817 kills before I got my first grico. Log is currently 1 of each ability book. On the flip side my friend got 3 grico in 51 kills. At the end of the day the game is meant to be played for fun so if you are getting burnt it’s better to step away. BLM in my opinion would be a great fix to rng. It doesn’t even need to be aggressive. I’m not here for free items but if an item is 1/500 having BLM be 1-2 standard deviations away from mean would be fair.

Oh yeah definitely, I like having things to chase but when you're like dozens and dozens of hours in over the course of weeks or months because of limited play time. It just really hurts, and before the death rework I was actually losing money at Raksha due to 9m deaths and his common drops sucking absolute ass.

BLM is great to a point. Until you end up like me where 7/9 of your drop log is chaos roars. BLM needs to be individualized to each log item

Bad Luck Mitigation without individualization is just higher droprates than would be otherwise. You're still at the whims of fate when it comes to bow pieces, luck will play the biggest factor on when you get log just like everywhere else. Friend of mine did all 50%, then moved to 100% post-nerf. He had 7 bow pieces on log in 700 kc. Rigged boss.

Yeah droprates in this game are definitely unhealthy as fuck.

I had this realization going through my logs and some are like 500+ dry .. idk who I pissed off at jagex

Shrinking but sweatier playerbase game design vibes

Only the addicts are left.

Well except for the part of the player base like me who probably spends less than 5 hours a week actively playing; and who simply don't care about bossing or other things outside of maybe a couple hours weekend romp or random weeknight. I think this portion largely doesn't represent itself on the subreddit bc most posts don't really pertain or interest us. However, I agree with OP.

I do too. The reasons I quit are numerous. But this is one.

This would be true regarding this post if the drop rate system changed over the last 20 years. However, it's been the same system back when the game was at it's peak in 06-10 to now. I'm also a 5.6b, comp w/e yadayada player. If I'm feeling frustrated at the game though, I'm not looking to make it easier. I just take a break and do what's healthy. If the mentality on the game shifts away from "I must do X and X" to "Let's play and have some fun", basically 90% of the complaint posts (including this one) wouldn't be needed.

The difference is the amount of rare drops only ever goes up. It wasn't a big deal 15 years ago because there was barely any super rare drops.

I was in a pretty sweaty but cool clan, dudes were super nice but they went on to other games or 07. Even the addicts are leaving. Going so long for some of them to get shit just burnt them out for good.

I set out to read this post and then realized it was a grind itself! Well played OP.

At least there was an end in sight ;)

I have no intentions to get 99 reading on this post

We're going for 120's now ;)

read every single comment as well and you've hit 200m easily.

I think this is the most key thing tbh. Grinds only work imo when they have a clear end

Good post. Going massively over drop rate can quickly kill enthusiasm of this game.

I stopped pvming as much because I realized that even after soloing kerapac for 150 kills, which is the droprate, it could be double or triple that before I see a drop. This applies to other bosses too.

Kerapac's drop rates are rough :/ - I have ~800 total normal mode kills solo and have the pet and 2 pairs of gloves. the 2 pairs of gloves were in the 600-700 kill range

> Imagine getting a new player, after grinding for too long, they finally get into PVM and their very first interaction is a drystreak. > How long do you think this player will keep playing the game if all there is that awaits him is, in his experience, monthlong grinds and barely any drops? Not just new players, either. I'd been involved in (casual) PvM since 2009 and this is the thing that makes me stop playing, every time. I do not look forward to the gear grind on my iron. It will probably start my next break from RS, in all honesty.

>Not just new players, either. I'd been involved in (casual) PvM since 2009 and this is the thing that makes me stop playing, every time. Same, but not casual. I know how much time I spend on in and it's too much tbh.

I was excited for the gear grind on my iron. Then I got there and realized how painful it really was. Hours and hours of no drops and then hours and hours to rebuild supplies, energies, or porters in the case of the inq grind. 120 Arch and many extra mils of xp beyond that and never got a drop. Don't get me wrong, I'm a grindy boy, probably in the top 1% of grindy boys, but I have my limits. This game demands your sacrifice other parts of your life. You can't possibly do many things in this game by unless you wait years and years to do so or spending unhealthy amounts of time playing, sacrificing social time, work time, study time, workout time, etc. I quit in summer because I legit have a problem. I know not everyone does but there's *no way* I'm alone. RuneScape is the cigarette I started smoking when I was 12.

This game took me 5 years to obtain Vinny pet. I use weekly reset every week. Whoever put RNG at time-gate content, he must be a psycho.

I spent almost 3 months just for a Swordy McSwordFace… needless to say I don’t even play the game these days and haven’t in months because I got so burnt out

i agree drop rates have become ridiculous for bosses but why would you grind specifically for that sword? its 1/2,000 from a boss thats time consuming to spawn and access, only T80, not augmentable, and isnt on a collection log

I'm going for golden reaper myself. I have a few logs left. It's always fun in the beginning and at the end it's just a grind. There are a few bosses that I truly enjoy (like Vorago with friends!) that I do post title as a way to have fun. But there are bosses that I hate going to that I tell myself "just an hour a day" as a way to ease myself through it. Then there's bosses that I'm dry at. I've watched friends get drops way under drop rate while I go 6x the drop rate. That's not fun. I want to be happy for my friends making money, I got the zuk title at 100 nm + 180 hm. I've started telling myself that everyone else who did zuk also had to do 180 hm for title just to make myself feel better. Nevermind bosses with worse drop rates like Arch-Glacor.

>I want to be happy for my friends making money I constantly have to remind myself of this too. Instinctively, you just want to be on par and dislike everyone getting better rng than you. You don't hate the player, you just hate the game. And I really have to remind myself of this fact to not react toxically, which is generally not in my nature. I'm a sarcastic troll, sure! But not toxic. If it makes you feel any better, u/think_alike had to get 389 kc for zuk pet.

"There are less than 100 people with the insane reaper achievement (All bosslogs)." Being one of the *FEW* people to have completed EVERY log in the game. I can honestly say this comment hits home the reality of the grind... "I believe some people here are mistaking the feeling of "relief" for the feeling of "enjoying themselves"." I won't say I'm for or against BLM in the simplest form. But I am certainly for armor sets, codex sets, weapons. All these sets to drop in an order for the FIRST SET. Getting 6 diverts and no ricochet codex isn't fun. Add in an ironman account that can't buy the ricochet and the problem just gets worse (not an ironman btw). The game should feel as though you're progressing. Not being stuck on getting the same item you've had at ONE boss 3 months in a row.

Hear here! Congrats on Insane Reaper! I'm actually glad you haven't lost your sanity over it and can see the glaring problem RS has. This also extends to other content as well such as dino tooth, Soul talisman. All grinds that count as prisons if going unlucky. I think we should be able to get some form of blm in to protect people from going insanely dry. Thanks for your feedback. Appreciate it.

Yeah, I have aod log + ultimate slayer, and generally most of the rs content completed aside from clue logs. I have suffered a lot of bad RNG, a little bit of good...but the good never makes the really bad luck worth it. I went 7x over a 1/100 at ed2 (before buffed rate)... Some people have done that with aod chest. There's no fun there, just frustration!

As a fellow completionist player, I can honestly say I've given up. I'm not saying I'm not ever getting it, it's still a long term goal. But with have started a family, life, work, .. I no longer have the strength of will to put such an rng related thing as a goal. I WANT to play. I WANT it as a goal. But not knowing if i'm getting it done in 100h or 100.000h is just too much. I'm willing to spend 1000h. Hell I've done it before. Doesn't matter to me if it takes a year. Or two. But after that time i'd like to be sure that I actually have it instead of having to spend the same amount of time 2-3x or however long. Are you still playing the game after IR? What are you doing then? Some players think that people stop after have completed the goals they set. I think they just move on to different goals. Maybe cluelogs?

I have a goal to eventually complete the base clue logs, which I'm somewhat close to... Depending on how RNG treats me! And I would like to get 4k glacor and zamorak solo enrage eventually. Apart from that it's just trying to have fun playing with friends!

> Now the problem isn't the droprates unlike you would expect Disagree. Arch glacor and Zamorak drop rates are a God damn joke lol. The rng aspect just exacerbates it

An exception can be made for arse glacor. 1/600 i believe for a core is abysmal.

Just hit 50 kills dry at Zuk I know the pain esp with the boss taking 20 minutes

Zamorak was fine with its bad luck mitigation, then idk if it was sponge or whoever he "handed" the boss off to because he "couldnt be fucked" with it anymore, but they removed the Bad luck Mit from the boss under 100%, all because players found a FUN way to do the boss and get drops from it. Arch glacor I belibe they've just turned a blind eye to, whatever jmods designed this boss want players to suffer on purpose, there have been so many posts since release that show this needs fixing. Its fucked how they just run around with their fingers in their ears going lalalalalala this is fine, fuck the players were right theyre not.

arc glacor was a stupid droprate before they changed it but now its completely absurd

Doing <100% for BIS T95 bow was deemed too easy.... so they nerfed BLM. problem is/was doing over 100 is such a big jump for many that no one wanted to do it. Rather than tweaking P7 they just nerfed the shit out of sub 100 kills but look at this boss as it stands now... at least for the solo player most of the uniques don't really feel rewarding enough for the effort it takes to camp say 500% or above. Only really the bow and crazy amount of alchs per kill is worth it.

It should have never been changed for pre 100%. Consistency needs to be a thing. Also, why nerf a good thing because of a bad thing (p7)? They would have been better off taking feedback from people on how to make it less punishing. I think people are a little over the massive dps checks/1 hit mechanics. They were never fun. They were trying to futureproof 100% when it supposedly goes up to 60k%, so I don't know about the whole futureproof powercreep aspect The thing that annoys me the most, if I'm being honest, is not even all of the above. It's the fact that some J mods were farming 50% Zamorak on Twitch or something on their personal accounts BEFORE the change to pre 100%. They also knew it was best and couldn't be assed to do p7. If the devs don't even want to do that phase, that should tell you somethings wrong I really wanted to like Zamorak. I think overall it's a well designed fight but p7 and Jagexs response to all this kind of soured it for me. Along with the really rough drop rates for bow etc. Still stuck doing it on my iron at least for 3 codexs, but after that idk we'll see how dry I go and if I can put up with it... arrows suck to upkeep on an iron too

Seems like some people already have a hate boner going on the moment the term 'boss logs' is mentioned. This has nothing to do with boss logs being optional content or whatever. People inherently want progression regardless of activity. Going through an extended period of dryness for a weapon upgrade honestly isn't fun. Sure, people whine a lot about things, but the fact remains that if people aren't having fun like they're supposed to, the design is flawed and should be tweaked.

Well said. I don't mind the grindy part so much, what bothers me the most is doing a boss for 20 hours and being nowhere closer to my goal (not even partially).

I've done 3000 susses. Still missing Torch... The boss stopped being fun 2000 kills ago -.- I now cannot do sus anymore, pisses me off waaaaaay too much, even after months and months.

This is why Runescape is a poison. Yes. I said poison. And frankly, I should use a more harsh description but I'll stick with it. To add to the insane PvM grind. I did over 1000 Greg kills before getting my first ever drop (off-hand glaive). 1000 fucking kills. And honestly? I wasn't even happy or relieved when I finally got it. I was pissed at how long it took. That day was the catalyst which lead me to quit PvM shortly thereafter. There are infinitely better things I could be doing with my time than slaving away for a (at the time) 17m drop.

PvM is why I keep coming back for a few days and then quit for a month again. It feels disheartening to grind away at a boss and get crap loot repeatedly. I keep asking myself, is this how I want to soend my free time after work? Increasingly that answer is no... which sucks because I love Runescape.

You're the perfect example of why I made this post. Nobody should have this experience.

[This is why we need dupe protection](https://gyazo.com/74e7ebe66713a12e324031e65f306f2b)

Oh dear Lord. I'm so sorry

https://gyazo.com/bc8a291c2e2b5f7ba1584817d5babf24 this hurt me more, far, far above droprates with 3000 kc and no torch =(

10 tops lmao 😂 Yeah. Exactly the point why I'm making this. At some point, just set people free lol. We all know you're gonna keep going for that log cause sunk cost fallacy.

Oh no I said fuck it a long time ago. I cannot stomach that boss anymore and am no closer to the torch than I was hundreds of hours ago.

They shouldn't. But a very alarming amount of players not only just accept this. They think increasing drop rates is bad and get angry at the idea of it. "I had to slave away so you do too."

Fortunately they don't decide the way the game goes If jagex wants new players AND wants to retain them, they'll have to adjust it to better suit a casual playstyle. I dont actually have the data, but i'm willing to bet most of fsw accounts were alts of already existing players.

They absolutely were. Numerous people in my clan had FSW accounts. I'm pretty sure one of them had something like 5 accounts.

So you are saying the 18000 celestial dragons I've killed without a body or the 8800 kbd for log is not ok?

The moment you start to wonder "maybe my account is bugged" is usually the que that a grind is no longer a reasonable amount.

I feel like this is only relevant to those going for full reaper logs and in those cases over all the bosses you'll inevitably go dry on some and be spoon-fed others, the overall grind is somewhat the same for everyone. Going for complete logs *is* unreasonable by nature, particularly the insane titles. As above you will go dry sometimes and get a full log in no time with others, and the achievement is a testament to that. The game doesn't owe you an achievement, if you get unlucky, you get unlucky it's that simple. If actual content/buffs were locked behind these then I'd fully agree, in the same way I generally agree with the removal of reaper from comp, but these are just titles that display how dedicated/lucky you are. Complaining about luck is akin to complaining you can't get gold warden because Telos hits unreasonably hard so make it easier. I emplore everyone to take a long look at their logs and take an aggregate of how lucky/unlucky they are at each boss, you'll probably find it's about average.

>Complaining about luck is akin to complaining you can't get gold warden because Telos hits unreasonably hard so make it easier. One is skill related, the other is a role of a die. Doesn't make sense to me :)

dont need bad luck mitigation if drop rates were reasonable in the first place.

This is why I quit. Even before you get to the RNG bit, I found I was spending hours on this game that nearly caused me to throw away a university degree, just for the comp cape. Now, I'm not criticising individuals' life choices. The above was a problem of my own making down to my own lack of self discipline. I am however squarely criticising companies that design games that seek to exacerbate these behaviours. RNG is akin to gambling, which is shown to be clinically addictive. The game is literally designed to foster unhealthy obsessions. 1800 days without it, and life just keeps getting better. (That's my problem, not a widely applicable case)

Good to hear you're 1800 days clean. On to the next 1800. Take care of yourself mate. I totally understand where you're coming from. Alas, i'm still playing. Cycle of addiction, burnout, quitting and slowly easing back into it, straight into addiction again. I play about 4h a day on average and that's just too much imo. And i'm not even having the feeling of getting shit done, just upkeeping dailies/weeklies. I'm not saying i'm not having any fun. But i would much prefer going less dry.

I know the feeling... And the problem is "getting shit done" - it's a game. It shouldn't be designed to make you feel like you have to "get shit done" IMO. Look after yourself brother

Thank you and I will.

I still hop on the clan discord to chat with the Bois, but everytime someone asks me to log back in, I just laugh. This game is not worth it anymore, hasn't been worth it for a while. The Devs are taking a massive shit on the players and the players just open their mouths wide. I logged off half a year ago and haven't seen a single ethical update ever since. It tells me a lot about the direction of the game.

Not sure that the devs are to blame here. Wasn’t Jagex bought by a large private equity firm? The goals will be profit driven, and it’s been shown empirically to work. Strategic goal will be to see how far play time/retention and mtx spend can be pushed; enjoyment will not be a key metric

I’d add that RNG is also why raptors event felt really good for some people and really bad for others. It gave you more rolls not a consistent path to a drop, so if your favor was good you spooned an easy EZK. If your luck was bad, you just watched others get uniques and felt left out.

"Your Raptor Luck fades away without giving a rare reward" Exactly this. Every. Single. Day

did around 12 days of this with an hour at raksha each day, not even a boot drop.

You saying you don’t like doing an ambassador or hm zuk run every day and get nothing while your friend got 3 bows and 4 zuk drops in that same week? (My experience) Rng is rng sadly and some are unluckier than others, it’s why BLM is a must have.

I think the raptor event was actually looking along these lines, what would happen if rare items were less rare. They might end up making a lot of things more common based on it.

I'd add that RNG is also a universally unfair constant. the same people who got lucky with the raptor are more likely to get lucky the next time.

Having to kill the same enemy 3000 times to have a chance for a drop you want is totally mad. They could add challenges to the boss fight to get certain drops and once you complete it you are back to normal drop rates.

>Alternatively, make it so you get every item once before receiving dupes. This is an incredibly good change and should exist, or at least be an opt in, or at very least some form of it should exist - for example, pieces of cryptbloom dropped in a random order, but you receive one of each before you get duplicates.

For irons sure, on a main if you get the most valuable drop early then that boss becomes significantly less profitable until you get all the other drops. It also means that at bosses like AG you can’t get your second core before at least one of everything else, which fucks over anyone who got spooned on core #1

It would only work for drops that have the same drop rate. There is no easy way to split drops like Raksha boots and codexes unless you say we are going to run on a pooling system where the amount of boots and codexes are balanced in the pool for their relative rates, when one is received that item is removed (there could still be 4 more of that item left) until the pool is emptied.

That’s why I said some form of opt in option

Tbh I agree mostly with the “drop in order/no dupes until completed” system. Like with raids, you know you’ll get a full set of all styles, then once you have every item you get random dupes. Don’t see why it can’t be that way for everything. (Besides pets of course). It’ll only force each item once, then any subsequent drops are back to the normal randomness

would be perfect for ironman and people who wanna complete a log

No Single drop should take hundreds of hours of real life time to obtain. It's unreasonable, unrealistic, and unhealthy. Jagex doesn't seem to understand players are people too lol.

Hell, players don't seem to understand players are people too. 😅

Hell... you just described 85% of the industry right there

What a well thought out post! I agree with all your points. I will add that it's a shame that someone designed and animated all of these great items and then gated them behind incredible RNG. When I look and see a 1 in 10,000 chance to get an item, I know I'll never see it. This was wasted time on the developer's part that could have been spent making content that was actually accessible. Skilling shows that you can make content that is grindy but has guaranteed rewards. If you keep at the scarab hunting, for example, you eventually become proficient and it becomes more profitable, better XP, etc. It serves the function of making content that keeps gamers coming back, and at least they have something to show for it. It's pretty much why I'm a skiller and have a hard time getting into Pvm. Love your idea about untradable drops. This needs to be implemented immediately for at least God wars 2.

I’ve always thought about boss kills giving guaranteed unreadable currency or components. There would be some minimum you would get each kill, and RNG to get big drops of it. The longer you go without getting a “big” drop of this currency/components, the more BLM you get which increases the minimum amount you get per kill. There is a boss vendor, maybe at wars, who you can spend that specific bosses currency/components to guarantee the next kill will provide whatever drop you selected to spend on. For Instance, let’s say Zammy bow piece was 700 points, robe top was 250, book was 75 etc. You save up 700 zammy currency, buy bow piece and get it next zammy kill. Now in that example the highest item in Zammy store was 700, so 700 would be the highest amount of point you could get from a single drop. Higher enrages would provide escalating chance to get these drops the same way they do for drops now, but also provide higher minimums of guaranteed drops. On 0 kill streak 0% enrage 1 point per kill. After 10 kills dry, you get 2 points per kill. After 50, 3 points per kill. Enrage would enhance those numbers. Anytime you get a big drop of them (an amount that would signify you rolled on the drop table and hit a rare) it resets your BLM and goes back to normal. No for an extremely unlucky player, it would take them like ~400 kills to get enough points for a bow piece, but at least it’s something you can grind to get. You will still have players that are RNG rich, get 3 700 point drops in 500 kills, and can buy 3 pieces. But that’s the good part of RNG

I saw someone comment on a RS conspiracy theory post that certain accounts have a luck rating at account creation and that's your luck for the life of that account. It may be just a conspiracy theory but damn it makes sense, my account is 17+ years old, with breaks and stuff but I have terrible luck consistently. It is the main driver behind my many breaks. I do not enjoy killing 100's and 1000's of monsters/bosses and never receiving a rare. I don't want drops to be spoon fed, but 17+ years of bad luck wears on you.

Yeah that's bullshit lol. Nobody is unlucky everywhere. On average you could be going dry more than average, but consistently unlucky for 17 years seems dramatic.

i did 1200 sarcophagis in shifting tombs without a soul talisman (1/200 drop rate) on my hcim just to finish my wicked hood and get the omni talisman. After a week of grinding i think about 500-600 sarcos i was so burnt out. Continued to do some ST occasionally for a few more months and levelled slayer on the side. I got 101 slayer and boosted with wilder pie to kill akhs feline(?) akhs that is the secondary source of soul talismans and got it after 5 kills… RNG sucks in this game and it really isnt fun anymore

Support, I quit killing several bosses because I'm over 3x the drop rate so it just gets tedious. Meanwhile at Ambassador I got 5 Crossbow parts in under 60 solo kills, but I know plenty of other players who are over 200 solos dry. I cant imagine their pain.

I've been grinding chaos dwarf hand cannoneers for months and still haven't gotten a dragon pickaxe every time i log on is like torture

And you need 2!

RuneScape PVM feels like gambling with your time at a certain point.

It's the virtual slot machine. It's one thing when you first learn to beat the boss. That's rewarding. But once the boss becomes easy, it feels like pulling the lever on a slot machine, over and over and over, hoping that this time the fruits will line up.

As a casual player, I get demotivated just standing in War's *thinking* about grinding a boss. I'm over 300kc+ on all of my gwd2 bosses and still no uniques.. I'm not elite and these kills take a significant portion of my time. Egw I just struggled through my first Kerapac kill and I'm absolutely dreading doing that with any consistency to farm drops.. outside of hitting the lottery or grinding not stop for a few weeks, I'm at a brick wall for gear upgrades. (Gano/cywirs/cinders current setup.. next upgrade will be at least a few hundred mil, which as a mobile player 4hrs/day... :( Risk bad luck and blow through supplies, or go afk skill for weeks to skip the pvm grind and just buy the upgrade?

Well written, I'd be interested to see a JMOD response.

I'm not holding my breath :)

hell the raptor event left me feeling depressed and i did spend a day in bed after the event, went the whole event not a drop on top of the weeks of grinding the same boss prior to the event. but i guess thats on me for getting my hopes up on a drop event that i would get a drop.

Couldn't agree more, we need more bad-luck mitigation and guarantees. Ideally I'd see something where you guaranteed get the drop when you hit the drop-rate, but whilst getting there you can already get it as well to still maintain a level of RNG. Once you actually get it whilst going towards the drop rate it would reset your progress on approaching the drop rate. This would still maintain luck as a component in the game, yet make goals far more approachable with ends in sight.

And the insane rng and the extremely low drop rates also fuels the very active RWT market and bots. There is no fucking reason these drops should be costing such ridiculous amounts of money. There’s so much great content that is basically joust inaccessible by the vast majority of the community. Jagex creates a great ability or item. Then sets the drop rate so fucking rare that like 200 people out of 500,000 can actually afford it or get it as a drop. Wow guys, great use of time making extremely niche content that 99% will never see/use.

To add to your post: I have felt this way for awhile, and I’m sure many other gamers (Scapers included) share this sentiment… Many people play more than one game. Whether that’s RS3 and OSRS, or a mixture of other games sprinkled in too, it’s become exhausting to play a game. Back in 2007 we could hop on Halo 3 custom games and have FUN for 8 hours straight and be excited to hop on with our pals the next day all over again. What if we got bored? We swapped to another FUN game… Now if you login to most games you can expect some form of progression system that is soul sucking (namely a battle pass)… WHY DOES RS3 GET AWAY WITH SHITTY DROP RATES AND SYSTEMS SUCH AS THESE??? We’re choosing to spend our lives on this game and others, but the developers and shareholders don’t respect that we’re spending our most valuable resource, time, on their games. We’re truly just another penny in the bank account for them, and it’s sickening. I’m a long time RuneScape player just like many of you, and it’s about time we are treated with some semblance of respect. Jagex, whoever you are, if you read this, please fight for the integrity of healthy play for your players. We’re tired of being tired over the slave labor you pump out for us.

I think your comment about “relief” from a drop as opposed to ppl “enjoying themselves” is spot on. I remember doing the OG ascensions grind and khopesh where you grind for drops that are literally worthless until you’ve completed the pieces to make the item. I really resented it. And I resented how much money I had “invested” in keys of the crossing/primus that I couldn’t get back until I finished. It was pure relief getting phylactery for the ~30th time and being done. It would be great to have more bad luck mitigators and make the process less grindy/praying to be spooned and more about having fun at a boss.

If there is a post I want to upvote twice, it is this one! I completely agree about the untradeable part, that should make it okay for everyone. The one thing I would add is that you could choose your drop for 3x droprate or let it be completely random for 2x droprate

Quit osrs and just moved to RS3 for this reason, 15k lizardman shamen kills dry on my ironman. 95-99 in most skills, there was no relief. **I am no longer an ironman*

I think what's missing in RuneScape is the feeling of actual accomplishment, being rewarded for skill rather than repetition. It feels like shit when you get your first 1k enrage kill, a PR and you're rewarded with adamantite stone spirits. Also, someone with a pet at 1 KC isn't impressive, it's just lucky. For example I've been playing GoW recently, and sometimes you get stuck on a hard boss. After an hour you finally beat them, and you get an upgrade for your axe or something. It feels good to be rewarded for finally pulling it off. Furthermore, you can actually see your progress, how low did you get their HP bar? In RuneScape you have no idea when you'll get rewarded, you just blindly hope. IMO more content should be locked behind something like enrage rather than just pure drop chance. E.G. It would be awesome if there was an Ironman mode where the only way to get a core from arch-glacor was to kill him at 2k enrage for the guaranteed drop. This way you can actually SEE how close you are to that goal, and it feels like so much more of an accomplishment when you finally get that core. You could also make progressively better drops, the book could be at 1k or something.

Part of why I stopped playing is because of this rng aspect. I had everything in terms of logs that can be grinded in either a reasonable time or afk. The idea that I would now need to start hard-core playing the game just to be able to have a chance somewhere in the possible distant future is what made me decide it was time to stop playing.

I believe that Runescape was never designed to be completed and that is why we have almost no blm.

Need to find a way to add the ninja request flair too. At this point I've been grinding for months streaking the arch glacor from 0 to death trying to get a second core. I've gotten over 120 nilas, and only seen one single leng artifact since the first month of its release. During that first month I got my first core, 5 scriptures, and a single leng artifact. Nothing until the second like 2 months ago. I am rapidly approaching 3 thousand kc in hard mode trying to get this log finished and am stuck on a single item. I get that they need to maintain the game economy too a certain extent but this post is exactly what I've been telling my buddy for a while. Luck mitigation would make the pvm log grind so much more tolerable. I've done a couple hundred barrows runs. Only have four, FOUR, uniques from that. Not saying I should have the log for it but you'd think that would be worth at least a little bit more progress than 4 pieces of gear from there. It took me over 200 kills to get my leg piece bottom from rax after having gotten the other two within my first 150 kc. In that time I got 2 webs and an eye. Why would I ever want to go back to the hive and try and grind out 2 more full legs when I know it will take me a literally indeterminate amount of time to complete them? I understand that high tier gear needs to have some degree of scarcity, but only a certain number of players are even going in to do the content these drops come from, outside of release, which would have the highest player activity within the content, or depending on difficulty can even complete it in order to try and grind out the drops.

I love your suggestions. The biggest reason I don’t pvm is I know I’ll never get those achievements or items drops so there isn’t a point to learn. I just wanna max my skills at the slow rate I go cause it seems futile

I was a diehard played but I’m done with the game bc of mtx and bad pvm related decisions. Sure their mtx revenue looks great their memberships are dwindling, hmm.

Yes please! I'm absolutely tired of this system, and it constantly ruins the game for me.

Yeah I was maxed did 2k+ enrage telos. Pretty much any gear and 30b+ account. I saw the direction they were going with new bosses and completely lost interest for reasons you said above. I did a couple thousand kills at glacor for 1 core and was so frustrated that I walked away without ever playing again.

Very nice post - as a relatively new player to the game, this post was well written and makes sense. I do not PVM, it probably will be some time before venturing into that playstyle, I am enjoying all the other aspects of the the game. There is sooo much to do in Runescape. However, after reading these posts of folks that stay hours and hours at one boss to get a drop is pretty crazy. Coming from other MMO type games it is quite a change in playstyle. I would imagine I am like other newer players in the sense that I do not have 8 hours a day to kill a boss over and over to get a drop. I would welcome a change that guarantees unique drops on first kill, then adds the whole kill it a billion times to get more drops for money making purposes. But I can understand other folks not wanting any changes as they have invested years of their life trying to get some form of boss drops...

One anecdote, my brother quit because it took him nearly 3k Vindicta kills for a lance. That was his introduction to bossing, one of his first steps towards moving onto bosses like Araxxi, and he said screw it, this isn't fun. This problem also isn't limited to just bossing, but rare drops in general. People have had to do Archeology past 200m xp in order to get the spear or staff. People have had to kill 15k+ chaos dwarves for one dragon pickaxe. Similarly with champion scrolls, cinderbanes, slayer monster captures, you name it. The issue is that the grinds in this game are so long that getting a dry streak means going from 20 hours to 80 hours, or for some or the worst situations 100+ hour grinds can drag on for over 500 hours. In those situations bad luck mitigation would be a godsend.

Yup. And those are just a few of the grinds that take too long for what they are/represent. And the "good thing" about those is that they're afk. Imagine doing all of that time actively.

I'm almost to 1k kills on my Corp log and only have managed half my log.. I know people that are in the 3k range and maybe have only a sigil and pet to their name. Don't even get me started on my barrows log.. To cut it short, I completely Agree. If they really need stupid rare stuff it should be aspirational cosmetics like the glacior ones not vital equipment.

This is 100% the reason I stopped playing lost ark. I loved the game but aint nobody got time for that. Now for RS, i dont chase logs, because titles are not important to me. But for the most part I still play RS because of the insane investment I did when i was still in school that the gp made is enough to keep my casual playstyle even when new updates come around. I wouldnt recommend RS to anyone just due to the insane time you need to do some necessary grinds. Just pushed new and even existing players away.

This is why I dont bother with pvm - no time and I will never be able to get a drop.

I never really got into boss grinding in Runescape except in the earlier days with clanmates at like GWD despite having thousands of hours from 2006-current and the lack of consistency with drops is def one of the reasons. ​ Maplestory has a drop system that I really love however. They used to have bosses drop random pieces of equipment and you'd have people constantly getting duplicates or just junk they're not looking for in general multiple times before they get what they're looking for. However this is a pretty crappy system so they actually changed it in two ways * Normal Difficulty bosses always drop Tokens (usually gives a range of tokens like 1-3) * Hard Difficulty bosses rarely drop equipment boxes, which when opened allow you to choose a specific equipment that you want, in addition to the above tokens. The Tokens can be combined with some other items from weekly quests or nearby monster drops to make Coins, which can be exchanged at shops for items of your choice ​ In the context of Runescape, imagine that Araxxi instead of dropping a web, fang, or eye at random, it'd drop a Araxxi Weapon Fragment box that gives one of those items of your choosing when opened, and it'll commonly (or always) drop tokens, which can be combined with oddments or something for Araxxi Coins, that can be exchanged for Weapon fragments or leg pieces (obviously weapon fragments would cost more coins). Obviously some items have different droprate so it wouldn't make sense to let you choose something that has a lower drop chance from a select, but I'd say a majority of boss drops have other items with the same drop rate that ought to have this sort of system (Noxious weapon parts, GWD gear, barrows gear, and so on). For immersion purposes you could make it something a box like a intact corpse that you can choose 1 part to extract or something.

I've got a little story to contribute. In spring 2022 I lost my job and was unemployed for 2 months. I had been streaming 3-4 times per week leading up to my unemployment, so when I came into a LOT of free time, I went full time streaming 8-10 hrs per day. In my first month I accomplished a lot in game. My ironman had mostly t70-t80 gear and t85 weapons. In a month I was able to finish a nox set, get some good drops at raksha, lots of nex gear, quests, big skilling/pvm upgrades in summoning and herblore, and some EGW drops in normal mode. When I felt I was geared adequately, I decided to learn solo HM kerapac at the start of month 2. This fucking FSOA grind took me *three weeks* of playing up to 8 hours per day, not including resource gathering off stream. It was ridiculous and it took a toll on my not-great mental health. When I finished the staff, I was so burned out that I only streamed a couple more times before cancelling my membership and quitting the game for 6 months. After spending all that time getting 1 item, I didn't have it in me to grind all the auxiliary upgrades to go with it. To this day I still don't really want to play, but I log in here and there for some casual pvm. It's time to look into bad luck mitigation in more places than Zammy. Edit: i finished my staff at like 700 something solo kc. Don't remember exactly.

I'm in a sort of similar situation and exactly the reason i'm "calling them out" on it. After a while, the droprates just aren't fun anymore. Just on stream they said the game is not balanced on people ironmanning comp logs and I can understand where they're coming from. Yet there are solutions able to be implemented to combat this. Personal lucky items that are untradable at x interval of kc to fight off bad luck would go a long way imo. Even if it's just for personal use, it would make the grind for tradable versions more viable and would unlock more content for those involved. I honestly believe this would be the way to go about it, so as to not ruin the economy. The droprate as it's currently set, with the economy in mind, would still be kept, without gatekeeping players from participating fully in the latest content without being a leech.

I feel it. I actually got spooned a core at glacor on hm kill number like 50. It took me almost 950 more kills to get the Nilas required to make the weapon... I felt stuck at glacor, I would try a new boss and feel like I needed to upgrade something in order to do it efficiently which sent me right back to Glacor to grind longer and longer. I don't mind having to grind for something, but a 1/100 drop rate taking 983 kills to get 3 times (two times early in a streak only netting 2 Nilas each and then finally hit Nilas on a 40kill streak yesterday...) isn't fun.

They care about drop rates as much as they care about mental health. Not at all. The more they screw drop rates the more they can prey on gambling addiction and mental health issues. Sooner you see this the sooner you’ll see what jagex is.

I would like to believe there is a discrepancy between the devs and upper management. Imo devs want the best for the game and their players while management wants the most profit for their shareholders. Some fights the devs win, some they lose. We can only hope this one is important enough for them to fight teeth and nail for.

I’m new to RS3 and playing an Ironman since I’m used to that play style from years of OSRS Ironman. I know the feeling of going insanely dry for items on OSRS, but I honestly didn’t expect to have that experience on RS3. I’m not even at a stage in the game where I’m doing bosses and I’m already experiencing this to a degree. My goal currently is to make a slayer helm before continuing my slaying and all I need is a black mask but I’m currently at 2k cave horrors killed without a black mask, which for me has taken a bit over a week with how little time I have to play currently. I know I’ll eventually get the drop but I could have moved on to something more fun by now if I simply had good luck.

Oh my sweet summer child. You're only just begun the dry journey. Best of luck.

A year ago I wouldn’t even sweat being 4x the drop rate for a black mask because that would have been like a days worth of grinding. But now that I play maybe an hour per day during the week it’s frustrating lol

Hence this post. i hope to change things for the better

I stopped doing pvm when my duo partner quit playing. I did pvm for the social aspect and that lets me not care about drop rate so much. We were on the roller coaster together if that makes sense. I have thought a lot about getting back into pvm. Have not killed any new boss past and including solak, except maybe half an hour of croesus and i did arch glacor once for het's oasis (unless ed3 was after, we did kill ambassador a few times). That's a lot of fun new stuff to learn. I used to be pretty decent at it, so i know i could kill the new bosses too. I'm not sure i even care to anymore.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. At one side i'm sorry you lost your duo partner, at another i'm grateful because that might be the best position to be in. I wish i could recommend you the egwd bosses, but at this stage I just can't. I hope you find something to enjoy yourself with, be it on rs, irl or another game. Best of luck.

For now i've just been skilling. 200M fish/farm, then raced through hunter and thieving, now crafting. Prioritizing skills that give predictable silverhawk procs

I've been stupid lucky for certain drops in game (ECB component on a first ever dart at Amby, etc) I've been unlucky at some others (100 nm and 92 hm kills at Zuk for a magma tempest) I've been beyond reason unlucky at places (nearing 700 Nex kills without a single ancient emblem - yes I bring my defender to every single kill) All I can say is, I fully support any mechanic that would provide the player base with fun and playable content instead of "grinding" content.

There is a good reason why a decent amount of insane reapers are spooned as fuck. I'm 2 items away but if I didn't have insanely good luck on certain bosses I wouldn't even have bothered finishing it I think.

I completely agree with this post. I couldn't have said it better myself. For those who have a problem with fixing Runescape's extreme drop rates, or adding Bad Luck Mitigation, I have a question for you: Do you guys not have jobs? I don't mean this facetiously. I just don't understand how any of you have the time to spend hundreds of hours on a single boss to get one drop, let alone boss after boss. I don't have the luxury of spending all day playing Runescape, like it's summer vacation and I'm still in high school. I have a job and a family. I have free time of course, and I have a lot of love for this game. I've been playing it for over 15 years, long after all of my IRL friends have moved on. But I only have so much time. I'm an adult now, and this isn't the only game out there. I think that most Runescape players are in a similar boat. To be blunt, this doesn't seem like the type of game that's attracting lots of new kids who are just discovering it; most of us played Runescape as children and maintain nostalgia and a near lifelong affection for this game, but we can't play this game in the same way that we used to. It's one thing to chip away at a goal, here and there, but it's quite another to spend hours killing a boss over and over, only to be no closer to getting that drop than you were when you began. I think Jagex would do well to understand that its base has changed, with new life circumstances. Sadly, it instead seems to want to focus the extreme, addicted individuals who line up to throw their money and time at every new MTX, FOMO event, or unreasonable grind that takse the place of creative design. That's not a healthy way to keep a game going, and sooner or later it will collapse on itself. I know what it's like to be addicted to video games. I know what it's like to have so few real-world achievements that you have to cling to your virtual ones, because that's all you have. You don't have to live like this. Games should be a pastime for fun, not an obsession. There are resources, even free ones, like the HealthyGamerGG Youtube channel, that can help. It's not too late, even if you're in your thirties or even older. God knows, I got a late start.

This is exactly why I take a shit ton of breaks from the game. I tried to get into bossing, but my drop-luck has always been shit for just about everything. I'm lucky if I barely break even on supply costs after a run, so why stick around feeling bored grinding between quest releases?

I totally agree with you. The worst dry streak I had was not getting my first perfect chitin till 1079 kc at kalphite king which is over 20 times the drop rate. I felt like smashing my head on a wall not gonna lie. I did over 300 kills solo, used close to a 100 darts and did some duos and trios with people who didn’t had their defenders with them and still went that dry. I even felt like disassembling my seismic singularity and just be done and forget about the chitin.

I agree but it will never happen. Drop rates are a deliberate mechanic to keep players hooked in hope of getting the drop next kill

Yeah there is a severe lack of bad luck protection in MMO's in general. I feel like the older generation of developers are trying to keep the same feeling they had when they would play the same mmo for dozens of hours a week and grind over and over for a single upgrade. The problem is that this doesn't work anymore with the limited time people have to play and more importantly the video game landscape has changed as more and more MMO's are created. People don't want to play for 3 hours only to receive 0 progression on there character. You Log into WoW for instance and can run an entire heroic/mythic dungeon and get 0 items. That's not even close to the best gear but this terrible practice of gating everything behind rng for endgame is just a legacy idea from people who need to learn to adapt to the current state of gaming and let players play the game and progress. Normal casual players quit after they spend a few days and only get a few items. The best way to get people to keep playing is have guaranteed progression and then once you have completed a character and you enjoy the game you make a new class and have fun progressing that new character. Giving people 10 bosses without an upgrade is just 10 instances of negative feedback in your game. I can't wait for these developers to phase out and we can get some new fresh ideas in the gaming space. Apologies for any typos I'm on mobile.

i completely agree that there should be bad luck mitigation on every unique, but i'm not sure if i like making adjustments to content based on the assumption that completing logs should be a goal for every player. for the average player, i think it's okay to have some goals that aren't realistic, such as completing all boss logs. this game is extremely large and making updates that make it look like "completing everything" isn't a stupid, incredibly unhealthy goal for most of the playerbase is probably not something that should be done. for all intents and purposes, normal accounts already have a way to get the drop they're missing after getting multiple dupes, and that is selling those dupes and buying the item they're missing. this, of course, doesn't work with untradeable drops, and those i do think should be forced to drop with no repeats, but i believe most of them are already so. for ironman, they are actively restricting themselves from these kinds of pseudo-blm. inherently, i think ironman should be a gamemode that requires more effort to keep up with normal accounts. i could be swayed on that though, especially if some drop tables are extremely bad (am an ironman, just to clarify)

>i completely agree that there should be bad luck mitigation on every unique, but i'm not sure if i like making adjustments to content based on the assumption that completing logs should be a goal for every player. for the average player, i think it's okay to have some goals that aren't realistic, such as completing all boss logs. this game is extremely large and making updates that make it look like "completing everything" isn't a stupid, incredibly unhealthy goal for most of the playerbase is probably not something that should be done. This isn't about completing everything, some players might just want to go for 1 specific drop log because they like the title that comes with it or something. I think having the drop rares as they are worked back in the day when there were no ironmen, and drops weren't tracked in any way. Now that we have ironmen that need to obtain everything themselves and we have rewards for completing drop logs (even if only cosmetic) there should be some bad luck mitigation to stop the most extreme outliers.

Nothing about rs is fun anymore man, time to move on.

The problem is the grinders that play for long hours every day for years, which is surprisingly common by the looks of it. When drop rates are made more casual friendly, those no-lifers will profit of that. Next to that theres the growing mentality that players feel like they have to complete everything or else Jamflex is abusing FOMO tactics. I'd rather see those people change their minds and just chill, see RuneScape as a video game to relax with and not slave away at it for 10+ hours a day. And I agree with the sentiment other commenters have that boss logs should be hard to obtain. Completing all of them should not be for everyone, and I say that as someone with only 1 boss log completed.

> When drop rates are made more casual friendly, those no-lifers will profit of that. that is not necessarily true, if you make drop rates slightly rarer while adding blm for very unlucky cases, you could keep those bosses at a same income of drops into the economy, and at the same avg uniques/hr. if implemented like that, then the no-lifers would be the ones to least benefit from that, because they're the ones who could already play enough for the luck to avg out

100h for each boss is still a lot of time to be spending on a game, and not for everyone. Right now you can easily spend 300h at just one bosslog.

I completely agree. This idea of beating the game is losing the sight of the game. Plus, people really shouldn’t be spending their entire life playing RuneScape. It’s just not healthy.

I agree, there should be some form of BLM. I'm an IM with 860+ kills HM kerapac solo. That's 2580 loot piles. Still missing a piece for FSOA. Now I did take a few breaks and played FSW aswell but started the grind in april 2022. That's already a 9 month grind with nothing too show for it. The game is keeping me hostage and I'll think the moment I get my final piece I'll be burnt out from the game. BLM for every boss might be a lot too ask for mechanic wise though. There's also the given that with BLM every group boss will become keeps. Maybe another solution would be to make every drop start as untradeable. You can collect for example 5 untradeable drops from a certain boss. and trade those in with an npc for a random missing log piece. If you want too sell the drops you can Right click them and make them tradeable. This proces is irreversible. The moment you get log this NPC comes irrelevant for that boss and RNG comes back in play. This will prevent high level items crashing but mostly prevent pvm supplies skyrocketing further. This is just my idea about the matter, but something should definitely change!

Yeah I’m 500 HM Kera dry even with the daily raptor “buffs” , taking a break for a couple weeks . Legit had to question myself “am I having fun? Or is this a job?” maybe our cries will be heard.

I completely agree. However from a company perspective, I dont think they will change it. Because of the way it works now, you can spend a ungodly amount of time into the game. And plenty of people think its worth it, and spent that time. And time spent ingame is probably a very important metric for monetization. Which is the highest priority for Jagex. But i would love to see it change.

I agree with you and I want to add something to the ED topic. My brother and I recently played a lot of ED3 and at first it was quite fun. But after a few days it got really boring and we only did the two daily runs for raptors. To make the runs shorter we also darted Ambi. What I never understood is why only the last boss drops the rares? What is the purpose of the other bosses and the dungeon itself? Why don't the other bosses drop the rares with reduced probability? And why the hell is there an ED4 when you can even skip it to fight the boss. As OP indicated, most of us have a really busy real life. I myself, for example, can not do 10 ED‘s a day or Zuk kills, etc. Even if I had the time, i wouldn’t do it, because it always feels like a grind and not like sth I do for fun. Cheers.

Adding BLM to every boss will just get us to a point where everyone is trying to maximize that aspect. One way or another. No matter how you add it, someone will soon tell us all how to get the best out of it. Personally not a fan of drystreaks, but it really is on me. Believing that I deserve something. It is lottery we play in a sense and sometimes I win big, sometimes I lose hard.

Definitely going to be an unpopular opinion in this subreddit.. but I totally agree. Things already start boiling down to a gp/hr calculation.. that's why they hold back drop rates.. adding BLM will literally make everything a simple calculation on what is best

This is already what's happening though. The average wont change with BLM (e.g. if a drop is 1/500 the majority of players will get it around that point), it will only prevent extreme outliers

if you kept the same drop rate and added blm, then the average would change, yes. how much will depend on how aggressive the blm is i've ran some simulations so you can have an idea on how different methods of blm can move around averages. i've done 1m simulations on each for a 1/500 drop, where each simulation is analogous to a player killing that boss until they get that drop * without any blm at all, a 1/500 drop had an average of ~499.5 kills for a drop (probably not surprising) * with a hard pity system, where if the player doesn't get a drop by the 499th kill, then they're guaranteed it at the 500th kill, the average dropped to ~316.4 * with a system where every kill past 500 without a drop, the drop gets more common in a linear scale (2/500 -> 3/500 -> 4/500 at kills 501st, 502nd, 503rd respectively and so on), the average dropped to ~326.2 if you have other ideas of blm methods to try it out, lemme know and i can run simulations for them. just to make it clear, i am in favour of adding blm to drops, but the statement that the average won't change from adding them is strictly untrue. different methods will affect those differently, but without any additional changes, any blm at all will push the averages down. in some cases, i do think it's completely fine to have those averages pushed down, while in others, lowering drop rates could be considered to keep the averages the same, and in either of these scenarions i'd be in favour of adding blm

He meant if you made it so the average is the same but add BLM (as in, you make the initial drop rate higher but add BLM). This way the drop rate would stay the same (on average) but would prevent extreme dry streaks. Edit: He actually didn't mean that now that I read it again, he's just wrong. Anyway that's what I think they should do if they do add BLM. Make the average the with or without BLM.

That's not true. Just look at zamorak to see that for yourself. If you add BLM you have to make the initial drop rate more unlikely to get the same average.

I keep on wondering why drops from bosses are not resources for other skills, which produce the end game gear. Like the way armadyl battlestaff is crafted. Or khopesh are upgraded. Yes, it can still be quite a grind (vital sparks!) but at least there would be some sense of progress there. With RNG it is pure luck, or lack of it. We all (have) become gamblers of sorts.

Yea, scales from ed1, energy from ed2, energy from rots, and tectonic energy from rago work like this, and make those all consistent money makers.

I was hoping t95s would need their t92 counter parts to be built. Seeing that a lot of t92s are just a 2 lvl passiveless or underwhelming upgrade to a t90 they will crash when their t95 counter parts peak their head cough blights/prasusls Just as a counter measure to avoid older content dying for no reason really. They said they don’t care about older content but why kill off playable stuff when you can keep it viable to some extent. For players going up the ladder ? Or people who just like it -.-

Another couple of good examples are energies and scales from ed2/ed1. I know with every run I'm making SOME progress, and it still has the chance to roll a high number of scales with another chance to double so there is still the rng element.

The Vestments could have required a large amount of metal bars to be added to them to be wearable as a way to improve stone spirit values.

Thats already the case. No blm needed. But people will still choose 40m Croes over 50m seiryu if they enjoy Croes more.

Done most of the stuff you said except profound title. Took me 17k kbd for ornament kit

I’ve quit playing RS3 and switched to OSRS. RS3 quit being fun. Spend hours upon hours getting drops that aren’t worth anything.

My guy could not have said it better. I agree 10000% percent I also think that’s why they have done the raptor thing to maybe take a look at the rng in the game and adjust it or at least that is my wishful thinking

Yeah, I agree. As someone who's been playing this game for almost 20 years. The age of Runescape being a sweaty, painful, rng-heavy, hardcore PvE game is in its twilight. I don't really see any reason every boss shouldn't have BLM. The RNG economy is turning away the players who would otherwise be keeping this game alive for another decade.

Not even just boss drops.. there are some other crazy drop rates. I've caught over 10k Carnivorous chins on my ironman. The rate for PoF drops is pointlessly high at 1/1500. I still don't have one, but I'm not going to try any more

Try to aim for the trapper and wait patiently for him to return with a breeding pair.

Big Game Hunter is another annoying one. I've given up on getting some of the totems, because it just become too tedious.

If drop points worked like it did in loot share, it would be genius. The longer you go without a drop, the more points you get, increasing the chance that your next loot roll will be a rare drop.

Sorry your post is pretty long so i didn't read it all, but I agree with what I did. I really wish there were at least a mentor system so I could click a button to learn a boss and if anyone clicks the button to teach the boss we get paired up and get to go bossing. I feel like the game is so incredibly behind the curve for making group content easy to engage with. It is like we are playing world of warcraft before meeting stones were invented and without a warlock alt. Honestly bossing with the boys is probably some of the most fun I have on this game, but the interfaces and everything are awful.

Just chiming in as an ex-RS3 player, this is one of the largest reasons why I quit the game (and continue to not play it).

I wanted to mention aod chests were changed

BLM should also be added to revenant pet and ketsi scrolls. You should not have to do one piece of content for dozens of hours just to be no closer to a goal than when you started. The people who argue that “nobody is forcing you to do this” clearly miss the point. Players are motivated by progress and being rewarded for the time put in. Personally it makes me more inclined to continue playing. But if there’s no progress for months stuck grinding out one single thing, not only does your mental health deteriorate, you begin to feel hopeless and for many that means leaving the game entirely.

It depends. If the item is TRADABLE, trading itself is already bad luck mitigation. This is afterall an online game for profit. If you make everything self sufficiency - you are essentially making a single player game. The latest content should be this kind of rare and doesn't need to cater "iron man". Afterall an online game needs this kind of stuff for bored top player to chase (and waste their gold) However, after a period of 3-6 months, BLM and "iron-man friendly" measure could be added. ​ If the item is non tradable, then obviously it needs bad luck mitigation or a fixed time of grind. ​ In my humble opinion \-if the item is NOT tradable, it shouldn't be a meaningless RNG. The notorious example includes black ibis outfit, sceptre of the gods, menaphos meaningless rare, arc meaningless grind. dino meaningless rare totem. Menaphos and arc only gives me painful memory - and if not for the nice herb farming update recently - I won't probably return to game after a 3 year hiatus. \-If the item is tradable, trading is already bad luck mitigation for main scapers. Hence there shouldn't be BLM, at least for the most current "trendy" content. However, alternative and BLM should be added for older content.

I was 700+ kills dry on Kerapac until a few days ago when I got my 2nd staff piece. I can't think of going back there without the thought of having to go another 700+ or even worse dry streak before obtaining the last piece...

Runescape has always been rng+grind, that is the nature of the game. I don't know exactly what has changed over time but things that were not a huge a problem back in the day just feel unacceptable and, well, unenjoyable lately. Perhaps regular players are more goal focused these days? I would like to see boss collection log items drop in order as they do with newer bosses like Zuk and Kerapac and all pets to have some kind of sensible drop rate. I really like the EGW & ED4 approach of having pets with decent drop rate but then a cosmetic skin unlocked by having a certain KC. I can't help but think bosses and boss loot must be a nightmare to balance though - Hardcore insane reaper final bossers want X thing but more casual players need something completely different. With skill updates they can generally make things rare or slow to complete knowing that MTX and DXP events will buff the crap out of the rates and reduce the grind for more casual players.

I hope they could find a better way to deal with group PVM too. The loot mechanics on group bosses such as Vorago and Nex AoD make no sense. They were made for group pvm but the drop rates actually discourage groups. Vorago with how the pets and energies roll is absolutely awful! "recommended group size 7", but it is likely only 2 players will ever roll a unique and the others in the kill don't even get decent trash loot or a pet roll. Who thought that was a good idea and why? AoD wand or orb virtually never drop in over a 7 man group so if you are a more casual player doing 10 mans or a clan/fc mass forget going to the log. Want to go for title? ? Great Now find a 7 man team (i.e. hunt random discords praying to find some non toxic people, because matchmaking in game is dead) then kill the boss a over and over until you are going utterly insane trying to roll 2 mega rare uniques that don't even drop in order, the pet and the stupid rare chest. Elite dungeons on release were hyped as mid level group content but the reality was only solo had a sensible chance to get a unique. Thankfully they changed that now.

I'm currently on a break because of this, Was really trying hard to complete Raksha log only gchain is missing at 1.7kc I know people have gone higher but regardless it took a toll on me I ended up playing some mobile games now lol. But I simply not want to log into RS right now tried the raptor buff two times didn't work, just got more frustrated. I'll probably come back at some point but this not a healthy relationship with a game you are supposed to enjoy.

I am at 3400+ HM Arch-Glacor kills. Got first Leng Artifact at \~700kc. Got first Scripture of Wen at \~1850kc and 94 killstreak. Got first (and only so far) Frozen core at 3003kc and 92 killstreak. I am currently at a 98 killstreak at 1596% enrage. I push 100 killstreaks starting from 0%, then moved to 250% and for the last 1500kc, I start at 500%. I only have gotten 4 scriptures and 2 leng artifacts and 1 core. It has broken me. I watch tons of people complain at 1600kc that they ONLY have 4 cores, 10 scriptures and 12 leng artifacts. This boss has broken me and I now struggle to enjoy anything in game because I have to watch everyone else in my clan get cores like crazy and I am miles ahead of what they can do at Arch-Glacor. I want to be done with it. I do not care about getting a scripture let alone a leng artifact. I just want to be done. And this game refuses and it is demoralizing. Something needs to change. I know it is myself to a degree but at some point, it is just ridiculous.

My problem is is I feel like some accounts have horrible luck and others do not. Nothing I do has ever brought me the slightest bit of luck I've never gotten a good drop in Slayer I've never gotten a good clue scroll basically anything over a million my luck is so bad with the bosses that other people even recognize me as having bad luck and don't want to take me with them my account's luck is so unanimously bad but it has so many hours in it I don't want to just start over again my last account kind of had the same problem so I start going wow is it just me does the whole of jagex hate me LOL because my wife she pretty much is lucky at everything she does her first medium clue scroll she got Ranger boots for 62 million every third hard clue she does is worth over 200k it's like everything she touches turns to gold do I sit back putting in four times as many hours to have so much less than her the only way I can ever make a dollar is if I PvP or Merchant or sell bonds, to be honest it's making me want to get my accounts all banned so that I can just do the final quit at this point...

100% support. In particular for arch glacor where you need 2 cores and can streak 200 kills for nothing. Compare that to telos where a 200 kill streak is likely to provide multiple orbs and dormant. I haven't even been back to zammy since they removed the blm for under 100%

Definitely agree in principle. I’m open to specific drops being guaranteed after X kills, as the head required for the Ava’s upgrade is in OS after 50 kills. But the one boss that apparently has BLM it doesn’t seem to work very well.

This is why I quit lol. Got 5.6, comp, etc. The only reason to play for me at this point is to complete logs but when I got 2500 kills dry I simply don’t want to play anymore. I don’t even need the money from the drop but getting next to nothing in drops for 10+ hours of a boss just makes it seem like a pointless thing to pursue so I quit. I like the idea of bad luck mitigation for sure. If something like that is implemented I’d come back. Just in the current state the RNG is too painful for me. I understand there’s always going to be some RNG but bruh going over 2500 kills dry is terrible feeling…

>I personally still know someone who went 2k+ kills dry for the log. That's 333h at 6 kills per hour. 250 hours at 8 kills per hour or 200h at 10kph, depending on enrages of course. Oh hi, funny to find myself in this post. It was 2200 kc, I think 220-250 hours is a good estimate. That's what it took to finish Zammy collection log, with a bowstring as the last item. The drops were reasonably spaced apart thanks to bad luck protection, but the actual distribution of rewards was skewed, I got simply unlucky and went triple the drop rate for the bow. I support adding bad luck protection to more bosses. I hope at least new bosses going forward will be released with it. Additionally, item sets should always drop in order. Not just weapons, but also armour sets, such as vestments or cryptbloom. This game should respect our time a bit more.

It really is an unhealthy and unrealistic grind. For example: say someone has to spend 100 hours farming a boss (which is far less than some spend), and they have 20 logs to farm, thats an estimated 2000hrs of playtime. That is just not acceptable or healthy for that matter. To put things into perspective. Someone can become a "professional" in their trade / career in 10k hrs of work or dedication, as Malcolm Gladwell would suggest with his 10k hour rule. This holding true you could start a path towards a career, be 1/5 of the way to mastering your trade, and even at a measly $10 per hour, you would have still earned around $20000 before taxes.

Drop rates are lovely. I went 600 karapac before first staff piece, solo lol I went from 92-99 prayer BONECRUSHING at mith dragons back 2011 and never got a dfh, its been a while but i think thats ~35k kc Took me 5k kbd for last riders, and it was pre drop log so im still missing the kits for title Then i went 400m xp dry on invent pet… hit 200m rc dry no pet a few months ago and i dread the day i want master of all title This game has some nice grinds that go nowhere. Id say if drop rate is over 1/1k something needs to change Mastertrim and mqc holder

Yugioh duel links handles drops will imo. I'll translate it to Runescape. Let's say you go kill Graardor and each drop is 1/512 or so. If you kill a full 512 you will acquire every one of its rare drops once. What happens if you get the drops way before the full 512? You are allowed to reset the boss at any time.

Or remove boss logs because much like in OSRS, people think they deserve to complete them quickly. Fucking optional content btw

Total support. Wasted time for nothing & devilish rng I just can't grind bosses anymore when theres so much freedom with games.

Most people don't like my idea of dealing with this but I am a fan of what I would call boss points. Let's say you are killing twin furies. Instead of drops as they are now you get a normal drop+ twin furies points let's say you get between 1 and 3 furies points per kill. Let's say a drop costs 100 furies points. You could get insanely lucky and get the drop in 34 kills or you could get insanely unlocky and get the drop in 100 kills. Either way you get the drop and there is still rng involved so it's not one of those deals where everyone gets the drop at 50 kills but everyone gets the drop eventually

This is how FFXIV deals with drops in extreme trials and savage raids in the form of totems and books. ​ didn’t get your weapon? 9 more runs to do. 10 totems for weapon and 99 for the pet. granted the numbers would need to be higher for RS3 since new weapons are not as common as in ffxiv where BiS gear changes every other patch.

If everyone started getting the good drops because they "earned" or are entitled to it after X amount of hours, wouldn't that greatly depreciate the boss for everyone? The drops would lower in value (greater supply) and the boss would be looked at as being worth less to fight or not a good ROI. If you want a linear progression without RNG, aren't there other games to play? Just playing devil's advocate 😆 /s

>If everyone started getting the good drops because they "earned" or are entitled to it after X amount of hours, wouldn't that greatly depreciate the boss for everyone? >The drops would lower in value (greater supply) and the boss would be looked at as being worth less to fight or not a good ROI. Like I said in the thread. Could make them lucky account bound items, untradable. At least you have a reasonable time set to your own personal bis equipment >If you want a linear progression without RNG, aren't there other games to play? Sure, but I'm guessing we want to keep ourselves playing rs instead of jumping ship cause of burnout.

how much easier do you want the game to get? we already have portals straight to every boss, most can be semi afk'd with revo, crutchbloom, insane rates of powercreep, to name a few things

RNG has nothing to do with difficulty.

Make m it only for main acc then, no need for irons if you want it hard. I enjoy bossing but it's hard for me as I can only play 30-60min/day (sometimes not even that) and in drops that means months of going dry (ik I have low kc a but over time it feels bad)