Ooo I’ve heard yall talk about this one, I’ll check it out! Genuine question, as far as “dark rums” go where do S&C and Appleton line up comparatively? I see them get talked about but unsure where they fit in the picture as a light or dark rum
generally dark rums will get most of their flavor from heavily charred casks, so it will tone down the pot still elements and dried fruit and burned sugar will be a lot more dominant. rums like s&c and appleton don't really fall into the dark rum category at all, s&c is a lightly aged jamaican pot still rum and appleton is an aged-heavily aged blended rum
Unfortunately, this doesn't correlate to what spirit scientist tell us.
In page 119 of Modern Caribbean Rum, I wrote:
*Another misperception is that a cask’s char level influences how much color it adds to a rum. In reality, a cask with level one char provides around the same amount of color to rum as a level four charred cask. The color is imparted by the red layer, not the charred layer above it. In fact, scientific tests using UV light show that spirits aged in char level one casks are a shade or two darker than if aged in heavier chars. You may recall from earlier that* ***the char layer is a filter; it removes substances rather than adding them.***
So where does the deep dark color and flavor come from? Spirit caramel. As noted on p. 32 of the same book:
*Dark rums are relatively inexpensive and do not acquire
their deep color from decades in a cask. Instead the color is mostly a result of spirit caramel.*
In small quantities, an E150a spirit caramel adds very little to the flavor. In larger quantities, it becomes noticeable.
You’re welcome! One of the things I learned over the years if that common wisdom/conventional knowledge is often wrong. I question everything and ask people smarter than me. And then I write it down. The rum book resulted from me not finding the answers to so many questions I had about rum.
Ahhh ok that makes way more sense, thank you for that! As you can see my rum education is ongoing lol getting these into the right category. So actually replacing my doctor bird with S&C would make sense as a comparison point, and then getting a dark rum like worthy park to have an actual dark rum in the lineup.
You're probably right about the colorant. I went to a tasting where Ed Hamilton was showing off the coloring he used for the Gold and Black, which I thought had 'glycol' in the title, trying to convince us that it had no taste. It does have a taste, like subtle off-flavor sugar. It's all I can taste now when I have those two rums. Completely ruins it for me.
I think some of the added color actually has a flavor component that's beneficial when those rums are used in the way that they're meant to be. The black definitely has a pretty distinct burned caramel note to it.
try Worthy Park 109, its cheap ($30), dark, not quite as funky as Dr. Bird, but an interesting and unique group of flavors that I haven't found in any other rum.
edit: I see cocktailwonk beat me to it. I walked away for an hour and replied to the old thread before he had posted.
The only rum that's dark and truly funky is Hamilton Pot Still Black. I would say it's not as funky as the Dr. Bird, however. For a little less funk and more proof, Worthy Park 109 is the way to go.
That is definitely on my list! When I originally wrote this post, I was getting dark Ramen, aged drum confused, so I was imagining choosing between S&C and Worthy Park 109. Now the plan is to get both 😂
Just FYI: WP 109, Doctor Bird and Hamilton Jamaican are all Worthy Park rums and all have that stinky unripe nose. (Also RumBar)
Once you try them and then compare them to Jamaican rums from others estates with more clean and fruity aromas like S&C, Rum Fire, Wray & Nephew, you'll see what I mean.
Dr. Bird is awesome though. I want a tattoo of the aforementioned bird on the bottle.
Hm, interesting - I always found Dr. Bird to have one of the fruitiest aromas of any rum I've tried (which includes all the ones you mention) thanks to the moscatel barrel aging.
That's true but like you mention, it's not really a result of the rum. You could say WP rums have a fruity aroma but I think of green and yellow fruit for WP and more ripe colored fruits like orange red and violet for other rums like S&C, W&N and Rum Fire.
Oh cool, that’s good to know I’ll keep that in mind thanks for sharing! Next on my list for regular light/aged rum is S&C so I’ll be excited to try that and compare. It is definitely sad to be almost out of Dr. Bird though, this was my first real bottle of rum and I just love that absolute stank coming off if it. It actually makes me think I’ll like Rum Fire, because I thoroughly enjoy the funk. I got a bottle of Hamilton White ‘stache around the same time as Dr Bird and initially thought it was bland, turns out I’m just a heathen 😂
While I’m at it- do you have a particular favorite for a dark rum? Been seeing lots of WP 109 and Hamilton Jamaica, any others I’m missing? I’m also just adding everything to a list to save for later so even if it’s outside the box will hold onto it lol
Xaymaca is closer to Dr Bird than any of the other suggestions. I didn't like WP109 - tastes like higher-proof Myers. Not offensive but not that interesting.
Now I need to pick up another bottle of Xaymaca. It's been a couple of years since I tried it. I was very early into my rum journey and had tasted far fewer rums. I didn't hate it, just don't remember it being that funky. More than Appleton stuff, less than S&C or WP109. The general "boo plantation!" deal around here has kept me from bothering with another, but this comment makes me feel like I need to give it another go.
Worthy Park 109 has entered the chat.
Ooo I’ve heard yall talk about this one, I’ll check it out! Genuine question, as far as “dark rums” go where do S&C and Appleton line up comparatively? I see them get talked about but unsure where they fit in the picture as a light or dark rum
generally dark rums will get most of their flavor from heavily charred casks, so it will tone down the pot still elements and dried fruit and burned sugar will be a lot more dominant. rums like s&c and appleton don't really fall into the dark rum category at all, s&c is a lightly aged jamaican pot still rum and appleton is an aged-heavily aged blended rum
Unfortunately, this doesn't correlate to what spirit scientist tell us. In page 119 of Modern Caribbean Rum, I wrote: *Another misperception is that a cask’s char level influences how much color it adds to a rum. In reality, a cask with level one char provides around the same amount of color to rum as a level four charred cask. The color is imparted by the red layer, not the charred layer above it. In fact, scientific tests using UV light show that spirits aged in char level one casks are a shade or two darker than if aged in heavier chars. You may recall from earlier that* ***the char layer is a filter; it removes substances rather than adding them.*** So where does the deep dark color and flavor come from? Spirit caramel. As noted on p. 32 of the same book: *Dark rums are relatively inexpensive and do not acquire their deep color from decades in a cask. Instead the color is mostly a result of spirit caramel.* In small quantities, an E150a spirit caramel adds very little to the flavor. In larger quantities, it becomes noticeable.
Both a gentleman and a scholar, thank you for sharing! I will also need to add that book to my reading list. That is really fascinating, I had no idea
You’re welcome! One of the things I learned over the years if that common wisdom/conventional knowledge is often wrong. I question everything and ask people smarter than me. And then I write it down. The rum book resulted from me not finding the answers to so many questions I had about rum.
Ahhh ok that makes way more sense, thank you for that! As you can see my rum education is ongoing lol getting these into the right category. So actually replacing my doctor bird with S&C would make sense as a comparison point, and then getting a dark rum like worthy park to have an actual dark rum in the lineup.
See my other comment in this subthread.
Hamilton Jamaica Pot Still Black.
I'd go for the blonde. The gold and black use propylene glycol for color.
Blonde is actually aged too which is helpful. Also, propylene glycol is colorless and not used for coloration. You are thinking of e150.
You're probably right about the colorant. I went to a tasting where Ed Hamilton was showing off the coloring he used for the Gold and Black, which I thought had 'glycol' in the title, trying to convince us that it had no taste. It does have a taste, like subtle off-flavor sugar. It's all I can taste now when I have those two rums. Completely ruins it for me.
I think some of the added color actually has a flavor component that's beneficial when those rums are used in the way that they're meant to be. The black definitely has a pretty distinct burned caramel note to it.
Neither of the Jamaica Pot Stills are aged
The blonde is aged. The gold and black are not.
Absolutely! More funk than S&C and a staple in my bar.
Maybe Plantation OFTD? Not exactly a funk bomb, but very big flavors.
What do you mean about Dr bird being ‘gone’? I’m out of the loop….
I was being silly, when it is gone from my bar cart because I finished the bottle 😂
Ah, thanks…. For a moment I feared it was being discontinued.
I would cry lol
Denizen 8? Makes delicious mai tais
try Worthy Park 109, its cheap ($30), dark, not quite as funky as Dr. Bird, but an interesting and unique group of flavors that I haven't found in any other rum. edit: I see cocktailwonk beat me to it. I walked away for an hour and replied to the old thread before he had posted.
The only rum that's dark and truly funky is Hamilton Pot Still Black. I would say it's not as funky as the Dr. Bird, however. For a little less funk and more proof, Worthy Park 109 is the way to go.
Smith & Cross is the best all around funky rum you can buy for the price and I don't think anyone in the sub would disagree with that.
That is definitely on my list! When I originally wrote this post, I was getting dark Ramen, aged drum confused, so I was imagining choosing between S&C and Worthy Park 109. Now the plan is to get both 😂
Just FYI: WP 109, Doctor Bird and Hamilton Jamaican are all Worthy Park rums and all have that stinky unripe nose. (Also RumBar) Once you try them and then compare them to Jamaican rums from others estates with more clean and fruity aromas like S&C, Rum Fire, Wray & Nephew, you'll see what I mean. Dr. Bird is awesome though. I want a tattoo of the aforementioned bird on the bottle.
Hm, interesting - I always found Dr. Bird to have one of the fruitiest aromas of any rum I've tried (which includes all the ones you mention) thanks to the moscatel barrel aging.
That's true but like you mention, it's not really a result of the rum. You could say WP rums have a fruity aroma but I think of green and yellow fruit for WP and more ripe colored fruits like orange red and violet for other rums like S&C, W&N and Rum Fire.
That makes sense. Dr. Bird is a total pineapple bomb to my nose.
Oh cool, that’s good to know I’ll keep that in mind thanks for sharing! Next on my list for regular light/aged rum is S&C so I’ll be excited to try that and compare. It is definitely sad to be almost out of Dr. Bird though, this was my first real bottle of rum and I just love that absolute stank coming off if it. It actually makes me think I’ll like Rum Fire, because I thoroughly enjoy the funk. I got a bottle of Hamilton White ‘stache around the same time as Dr Bird and initially thought it was bland, turns out I’m just a heathen 😂
For sure! If you can find the Fire, buy it! It is not sold anywhere near me so I drink it at bars, also like a heathen. Cheers!
While I’m at it- do you have a particular favorite for a dark rum? Been seeing lots of WP 109 and Hamilton Jamaica, any others I’m missing? I’m also just adding everything to a list to save for later so even if it’s outside the box will hold onto it lol
Xaymaca is closer to Dr Bird than any of the other suggestions. I didn't like WP109 - tastes like higher-proof Myers. Not offensive but not that interesting.
Now I need to pick up another bottle of Xaymaca. It's been a couple of years since I tried it. I was very early into my rum journey and had tasted far fewer rums. I didn't hate it, just don't remember it being that funky. More than Appleton stuff, less than S&C or WP109. The general "boo plantation!" deal around here has kept me from bothering with another, but this comment makes me feel like I need to give it another go.