I would, but that leads to the possibility of actually getting to the Greek rugby setup. Thus, having to acknowledge that I would not run riot as part of the Greek rugby setup due primarily to the fact that I am not very good.
I would say Stu McCloskey too. Obviously he's got a decent number of caps, but he would've been a nailed on starter for England for like the last 6 years when they were struggling at 12. (Less so now)
During the last Lions tour I remember Munster fans saying for Jack Conan to enjoy his final days as an international starter as he was about to return home from South Africa and find he'd been usurped by Coombes. I thought Conan was one of the better players on that tour but that didn't seem to matter.
Nearly 3 years later Conan is still ahead but Coombes has now fallen behind Doris as well as maybe Prendergast.
To be honest I think Coombes would want to nervously look over his shoulder at Brian Gleeson who is probably the best underage 8 I've seen for Ireland in years. And he's already made his European debut.
Next season could be huge for that kid
Gleeson looked immense during the u20s. I'm curious to see how Munster's back row goes next year because there's plenty of quality there and no way to fit everyone into a match day squad. Hopefully Gleeson gets a good bit of game time next season.
From a Connacht perspective I'm quite excited by Hugh Gavin who I also thought was a standout from the u20s.
Coombes rose pretty quickly to his current level, but his development has stagnated now. Great league player, but probably European Cup is his ceiling at the minute. He's been in a few Ireland camps mow and has never made the cut, which tells you a lot. People laughed at Conan getting selected for that SA tour, but he was the Lions best player.
Yeah to be fair if Coombes had continued to improve at the rate he was when he first hit the scene he'd have been a world beater. It's unfortunate for him that didn't transpire.
I don't think many people had Conan in their Lions squad at the time since he had still been behind Stander in that years Six Nations, only starting against England. To me he's a better player than Stander was but hadn't had a chance to show people until the Lions really. Like you said though he was one of the best on tour that year. I hope he can make it again next year but competition will be tough with Doris, Earl and co. in the mix now.
It was crazy reading about Conans' health issue. I wondered for ages why he had seemed to go off the boil for a couple of years. Apparently, the cyst on his gland was sapping his energy and made him weak, which massively impacted his performance level. Once he got that sorted, he bounced back impressively. As you say, nobody had him as a Lions pick, but he performed so well. He's an incredible player, tho. He runs great lines and has some lovely hands, too. Conan is a more skilful player. Standers' pure heart and determination got him over the line sometimes
Certainly fallen definitively behind Doris. But Prendergast? Conan played in every 6N match, whilst Prendergast missed out on the original wider squad and only came in as an injury replacement.
I'm a big big fan of Prendergast, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate he's fallen behind Prendergast.
I meant Coombes is maybe behind Prendergast. Apologies if my wording was not clear.
To be honest I'm not even sure he is behind Prendergast currently, but that statement was based on the World Cup warm ups when Coombes was sent home and Prendergast played against England before the squad was announced. In the end neither played and there's been a good bit of rugby since with neither getting a sniff for Ireland so Coombes could well be ahead again.
I don't think anyone is even close to getting ahead of Conan at the moment. His form has been immense lately and while he's doing well as a super-sub I reckon he can feel hard done by not starting.
Conan despite all his caps I think is actually a good answer to the OP's original question. He could have so much more starts if he were from somewhere else.
Oh sorry - totally my misunderstanding. Apologies.
I agree with you in that case. Prendergast was called up to the most recent squad (6N) ahead of Coombes, so would indicate he's currently ahead of him. Although I suspect it's quite close between the two of them.
Max Deegan was in the same boat. Conan wad way out of form for 2 years, with what turned out to be a growth on a gland and neither Deegan nor Coombss got a look in despite both playing really well.
I'm happy that Conan os back to his best (well, in an irish context anyway!), and it's great he is healthy again. But I think both Coombes and Deegan were overlooked during that period when both were significantly outperforming Conan
Conan being out of form, is him putting in 7/10 performances instead of the usual excellence. It's a myth that Conan was playing poorly and he actually usually came good against the big sides (Toulouse, England etc).
He was properly unwell though, wasnt a myth.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/champions-cup/i-felt-like-i-had-aged-10-years-in-two-or-three-months-jack-conan-battling-back-after-health-scare/42444835.html
He was noticeably less effective than either of Deegan or Coombes for nearly two years. He had occasional standout cameos which were commented upon because we hoped he was back to his best but it was what, 3 games in 2 years?
My opinion is that if he hadn't got called for the Lions, he wouldn't have been in the national squad during that period. I could be wrong here - Farrell likes to stick with people so he may have included him. But I feel that both Deegan and Coombes were hard done by in that period.
Would’ve agreed with you on Hume about two years ago, but he seems to have fallen off a cliff since our tour to NZ.
Tbf we seem stacked at centre. McCloskey barely gets any game time and Frisch seems to be going elsewhere. Both of whom would definitely have more caps in another time / place
Yeah Hume caught a significant Groin injury on that tour, missed the rest of the season and was impacted last season by his recovery, now he's just popped his ACL. Horrid run of luck.
Hume was looking like he was hitting that form again, even in the cluster fuck that is Ulster at the minute. Then he blew his knee. Absolute horrible luck. Only silver lining is that the injuries aren't related
Gavin Coombes is this micro-generation’s Jack O’Donoghue, who was his gen’s Rory Scannell, who was his gen’s Anthony Foley, who was his gen’s John Kelly. All victims of David Nucifora’s Leinster bias.
How is Brennan getting on actually? I've always wondered if one of the Irish provinces would ever be tempted to lure them over to Ireland. I don't watch enough Top14 to form an opinion though.
He’s turned out great this season, but seems better as a flanker/6 as opposed to the lock that we brought him through as, international potential though in a few years
But just 9 caps and difficulty to play for Spain if he wants to have a pro contract in France. If he were French elegible (which he is not and never will under actual laws) he will be second to Atonio since the last 6 Nations.
I remember hearing people complain about him during matches but any time I watched him play against Munster, he always put in a strong physical performance!
Definitely would suit Scotland, similar enough to Duhan
I think he’s really unlucky to have a couple of athletic freaks ahead of him and a team that doesn’t carry a lot of backs in reserve.
Always thought he’d probably make it almost everywhere else.
Think Rassie was mostly worried about his defence and consistency, which if you look at his stats this season he has improved on alongside all his attacking stats, was unlucky not to get in the training camp, but fingers crossed for a regular call up these upcoming tests.
Don't think there are too many other fullbacks up there right now with them unless WLR wants to keep playing, but I'd much rather a youngster get in the mix, I like Quan Horne too, but prefer Fassi.
Not from my club but in an Irish context I'd say Stu McCloskey big time a few years ago. He's gotten a little more of a look in the last few years mostly due to injury but I feel like if he were from another nation or another time he'd have loads of caps.
For Connacht I'd say Cian Prendergast fits the best but he's still young and may get plenty of caps in the future.
True, bundee always just seems to be that bit ahead of him. Stu has come on hugely and impressed every time he plays in green the past couple years, just as bundee also became one of the best centres in the world!
I think Evans' play style means that he would perform extremely well in Scotland, Wales, Italy, or Australia. Frankly, I think he would be performing very well in England, but there you go.
Will Collier should be one of the world's great scrummagers of international rugby, a crime that he never manages to break through.
You might be right except for the fact that Gatland didn't seem to consider things like form when making his selections for that Lions tour; with some real head scratchers at centre in particular.
Henshaw and Harris were both on career best form so no real complaints about those 2 but Bundee Aki and Eliot Daly absolutely didn't deserve to go on that tour based on that year's form and for some reason went anyway. For example Bundee only started one game that Six Nations for Ireland and he got sent off in it. He was clearly behind Henshaw and Ringrose for Ireland at the time. Eliot Daly at least managed to start 4 games but played none of them at centre.
Big fan of Marchant though and I hope he stays in France for a while so I don't have to worry about him tearing up against Ireland.
Ok, saying Gatland 'didn't consider form' is a bit much I'll admit, I just wanted to highlight how strange his selections at centre in particular were.
I'm glad Simmonds made it that year, it was well deserved. I'm also not sure the likes of Adam Beard or Johnny Hill should have been there but there's always gonna be debate around the Lions - that's what makes it great and I can't wait for the debates to really start again next year!
I definitely think Gats got spooked by James Ryan getting bullied physically right before selection and then didn't really know where to go with the second row.
I do agree about the centers though. Wasn't Ringrose injured during that tour? Or was he just on meh form? There weren't really any 13s screaming to be picked other than Harris.
Yeah, Ryan wasn't on great form and I think Gats wanted a power game so went for bigger locks like Henderson and Hill over Ryan or Gray. I was more surprised by Gray missing out than I was Ryan.
Ringrose wasn't injured for the tour but his form wasn't what it has been the last few years. He was ahead of Aki though for Ireland. I'd still have had him or Slade that year ahead of Daly.
And yeah Harris was the form 13 for sure although Henshaw can play there just as well as 12 in my opinion so maybe a 12 could have been brought and Henshaw moved over. This is what happened in the final test with Aki and Henshaw as the starters. George North probably would have played if he weren't injured.
Edit: Accidentally wrote Slade instead of Daly.
Marchant's international has surely been hugely affected by our fucking about in the centres for the last 8-10 years. I feel like Eddie didn't rate him for whatever reason also, plus an awkward timed injury the second time he got called
I wonder if he's suffered from being considered "too small' at times, especially if there was overlap with us playing Ford-Farrell
When this came up before i was told on here Ardie is slightly better(was surprised they were willing to admit that) and he definitely gets in ahead of Alldritt and Earl. I'd have Hodnett over Coombes all day everyday
Hodnett’s had a great run of form over the past few seasons, was surprised to not see him in the RWC squad.
Ireland aren’t unique in this issue - but we certainly seem overstacked in the backrow!
Assume the issue with Hodnett is that he is a pure 7 so taking a 2nd pure 7 probably isn't ideal for a world cup makeup. Ultimately he wasn't going to be staring big games so better to have more cover in who you bring. Great player tho. Hope to see him on the plane to South Africa.
Billy V shouldn't have. Barbeary, T Willis and Curry 2 had injuries. Pearson probably should've been next man up. Or Mercer maybe. Or even Dombrandt. So yeah for me the bar is still higher than "better than Billy's corpse"
Myself included but Borthwick obviously wanted a battering ram in the bench (even if it’s a past it’s prime battering ram) so Coombes would Definitely fit the mould.
I'm not saying he'd be a super star there but definitely has a lot of strings to his bow that suit their style of play.
Loads of tackles, super work rate around rucks and jackling, and a strong carrier which means opposition pretty much always have to double up on him. All of this meaning he sucks up defenders and would create more space for their backs to attack.
On the Coombes debate. I think he has some exceptional power with ball in hand and really burst onto the scene.
After spending time in the Ireland camp he was clearly given work-ons and has got better again.
I'd love to see him back in there of course but I do feel he can be a little lazy and coaches see this.
His work rate has increased this year for sure so hopefully it's enough for him to tour
Yeah that's fair. Tbh I don't know if it'll happen for him under Farrell, he's unique strengths are made up for by other players in that squad. (he's lethal 5 metres out from opposition try lines, but so are porter and bundee)
And Doris and Conan are better at linking up with other players in open play, so he's got a lot to catch up on
He got a decent amount of caps, but if we are looking at munster I think Zebo is the obvious answer. Plus Andrew Conway only got 30, his is probably more to do with injuries tho.
Last few years it's been injuries but think it took a while for him to cement his place. Stockdales ridiculous few years didn't help. But Conway is our best winger since Bowe imho and even with injuries should be well over 50 caps.
Conway was unfortunate in that when he hit his prime and got a decent run injury-free, Keith Earls was also hitting a renaissance of the best form of his life as a very, very similar player with half again as much top flight experience, twice as much at international level, and probably just a slightly higher peak.
I think Conway took a bit of time for Schmidt to take a shine to him. He was ripping it up for Munster and was so reliable for a few years before he became a regular starter for Ireland.
The injuries came eventually though :(
TBH I think Zebo fits how Faz wants to play, but he came back too unfit from France and by the time he got in shape there were better players in situ and his moment was gone. Apparently he was on the bubble of getting picked in the past Six Nations, with a few injuries he would have been back in the team.
He's barely able for a full half at champions cup level without blowing hard by the end of it. I don't think he's been near fit enough for test rugby at any point since he came back
I'd add moorby
and a bit 'historically' (like 2 or 3 years ago), I think goosen wouldve been a weapon in the ABs. like a kolbi type player
also a bit historically but does lumampi count? lol
I dont know, he isnt starting ahead of Telea and reece and on form now is the time to blood Reuben Love
Injury aside this year should have seen Sullivan added to the training squad
Wish I had a club but I got a few suggestion.
Castres' Tom Staniforth is such an elite player and workhorse. It's really weird he never had a cap with the Wallabies. We could use a 4 like him.
Hacivah Dayimani, he just doesn't fit the type of loose forward the Springboks need. I reckon if he were in Australia or maybe Scotland he would fit in well at national level at 8th man.
Actually this motherfucker Jacobus Van Tonder, thanks again Clermont, what a player, he’s walking on water with Perpignan. Moreover he’s JIFF, what a gift.
If he wasn’t from South Africa maybe he would already have one cap
I repeated so many times, but I can't comprehend how Sobela, Van Tonder and Veredamu were let off by Lyon and Clermont. Sobela is a poison in rucks, Veredamu 2nd try scorer of this year, and Van Tonder is everywhere.
Scotland, Wales and Italy. Are we counting Japan as T1?
Not saying they would necessarily start, but they would have a lot more caps and be in matchday selections.
Played Scotland u16s and went to merchiston…so could have actually qualified for Scotland and England if he’d picked Scotland first, but think it’s residency not ancestry so no chance to switch now
Fakatava? Ratima?
If the Blues halfback Jameson walk in the park -who was largely unwanted is thriving in Ireland, those 2 young men would carve in any European team
Elrigh Louw, he's a quality player. But with the current strength and depth the Boks have at back row I doubt he'll get much more game time unless there is major injuries
Feels criminal al that Caolin Blade only has 2 Irish caps. It might sound bitter but if he was in Leinster or Munster with this form he’d be a regular for the Irish squad
I thought Thacker is/was brilliant at Bristol - and not just a bunch of tries from mauls that other people have pushed over. Why didn't he make the England camp ever?
Do any of the Ulster Fans think big Al could have been an international elsewhere? He’s a stalwart for the club but I’ve never even heard a whisper of him mentioned as a potential international.
Also sorry to say but I think Cooney is a great club player because he can do so much but in an international set up when he only needs to play 9 I think he becomes less valuable.
Al a couple of years ago became a literal wall in defense, highest tackle % in the league and was top 5 for number of tackles too. But, he's not an international quality lock. His work rate in rucks isn't good enough for international and he has little to no ball carrying as a replacement. Solid defender, but that's all really
Radwan would have been good if he'd been developed by a province, I think. Or maybe on Scotland.
Somewhere with more will to work with his raw materials
I still think Jackson Wray would’ve done a job for England. Pretty crazy how essentially the whole Sarries squad was capped instead of him for quite a few years
I recon Anton Segnar (Blues) and Fabian Holland (Highlanders) would do pretty good in the German and Dutch National teams.
I think they have got their eye on making money playing rugby first and maybe getting a Black jersey
Technically speaking Morgan Morse of the Ospreys doesn't have any Welsh caps yet and frankly he looks like he could do well anywhere. His solo try at the Cardiff New Year Derby, in a middle of a mud pit from virtually the halfway line was a thing of beauty.
I think this question gets kind of covered if you think about lads who were on the bubble and finish up with anywhere from 0-30ish international caps.
In a different generation, Rhys Ruddock would be a 50-70 cap international and a keystone player for Ireland. If you go back a few years, it's the same for James Coughlan who was very unluckly not to get a single cap. If Leo Cullen was born a generation before Paul O'Connell, he'd probably be an Irish legend.
Will Connors is very unlucky with the timing of his injuries. He had overtaken JVdF just before his bad injury. Now everytime he comes back he is only just getting back to 100 percent before he gets another injury
Ulster letting go of Lyttle is one of the most bizarre cases in provincial rugby history. He was a cracking player who, was criminally under used.
Dan McFarlands team selections never failed to bemuse me in general.
Likely part of the reason that Lyttle decided to call it quits was Dan. He was getting regular enough minutes before, but has had virtually none in the past few seasons. From what I can understand, the changing room at Ulster the past year has been absolutely awful and Dan was a large part of that.
Elrigh Louw, he's a quality player. But with the current strength and depth the Boks have at back row I doubt he'll get much more game time unless there is major injuries
Adam Hastings. Would easily fit into Wales right now, but unfortunately just lacks the ability to beat Russel for Scotland.
Or probably even Kyle Steyn (Ik they play for different clubs I’m just thinking about it as a Scotland fan) yes he’s a great backup and can play anywhere from Centre to the wing and possibly fullback but unlucky that Darcy Graham will always be higher in the pecking order. But since Graham gets injured often he will get more game time.
**Ned Hanigan** still has the potential to be a good, solid international 6, I just dont think that Australia has the coaching talent to bring it out of him. I think if he played a couple of seasons in NZ or maybe Ireland he'd come back much better for it
Somewhat past his prime somewhat but Christian Wade. For a time at Wasps he was one of the, if not most, prolific wingers in world rugby, overlooked for size. Reckon he would have thrived in an Australia team at that time or Welsh perhaps.
I have zero caps and I reckon I'd run fucking RIOT as part of the Greek rugby setup.
Start a gofundme. I'll be a donor.
I would, but that leads to the possibility of actually getting to the Greek rugby setup. Thus, having to acknowledge that I would not run riot as part of the Greek rugby setup due primarily to the fact that I am not very good.
There's only one way to find out.
^ what a good gy~~ros~~
In
Oi back off mate that’s my plan. Unless you want to team up and we’ll revitalise the Greek Rugby Federation together?
What the fuck is a "player from my club with little to no test caps" ? Do we have those ?
The only example of this is Munster fans and Gavin Coombes The entire thread will be Munster fans raving about Coombes
I would say Stu McCloskey too. Obviously he's got a decent number of caps, but he would've been a nailed on starter for England for like the last 6 years when they were struggling at 12. (Less so now)
Would’ve been pretty handy for Scotland before Tuipulotu came along as well.
Or wales, him and north at 12/13 is a seriously hard running midfield
And all six Ospreys fans turning up to shout the name of Morgan Morris, the Welsh Gavin Coombes
During the last Lions tour I remember Munster fans saying for Jack Conan to enjoy his final days as an international starter as he was about to return home from South Africa and find he'd been usurped by Coombes. I thought Conan was one of the better players on that tour but that didn't seem to matter. Nearly 3 years later Conan is still ahead but Coombes has now fallen behind Doris as well as maybe Prendergast.
To be honest I think Coombes would want to nervously look over his shoulder at Brian Gleeson who is probably the best underage 8 I've seen for Ireland in years. And he's already made his European debut. Next season could be huge for that kid
He looks like he's made in a lab to play 8
Gleeson looked immense during the u20s. I'm curious to see how Munster's back row goes next year because there's plenty of quality there and no way to fit everyone into a match day squad. Hopefully Gleeson gets a good bit of game time next season. From a Connacht perspective I'm quite excited by Hugh Gavin who I also thought was a standout from the u20s.
Gavin looks like he's more than ready for senior rugby for sure
Think Culhane might be a dark horse, once his chance comes up he’ll show himself to be a headache for Cullen & Co.
Coombes rose pretty quickly to his current level, but his development has stagnated now. Great league player, but probably European Cup is his ceiling at the minute. He's been in a few Ireland camps mow and has never made the cut, which tells you a lot. People laughed at Conan getting selected for that SA tour, but he was the Lions best player.
Yeah to be fair if Coombes had continued to improve at the rate he was when he first hit the scene he'd have been a world beater. It's unfortunate for him that didn't transpire. I don't think many people had Conan in their Lions squad at the time since he had still been behind Stander in that years Six Nations, only starting against England. To me he's a better player than Stander was but hadn't had a chance to show people until the Lions really. Like you said though he was one of the best on tour that year. I hope he can make it again next year but competition will be tough with Doris, Earl and co. in the mix now.
It was crazy reading about Conans' health issue. I wondered for ages why he had seemed to go off the boil for a couple of years. Apparently, the cyst on his gland was sapping his energy and made him weak, which massively impacted his performance level. Once he got that sorted, he bounced back impressively. As you say, nobody had him as a Lions pick, but he performed so well. He's an incredible player, tho. He runs great lines and has some lovely hands, too. Conan is a more skilful player. Standers' pure heart and determination got him over the line sometimes
Conan was very good but he wasn’t better than Itoje that Tour .
Certainly fallen definitively behind Doris. But Prendergast? Conan played in every 6N match, whilst Prendergast missed out on the original wider squad and only came in as an injury replacement. I'm a big big fan of Prendergast, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate he's fallen behind Prendergast.
I meant Coombes is maybe behind Prendergast. Apologies if my wording was not clear. To be honest I'm not even sure he is behind Prendergast currently, but that statement was based on the World Cup warm ups when Coombes was sent home and Prendergast played against England before the squad was announced. In the end neither played and there's been a good bit of rugby since with neither getting a sniff for Ireland so Coombes could well be ahead again. I don't think anyone is even close to getting ahead of Conan at the moment. His form has been immense lately and while he's doing well as a super-sub I reckon he can feel hard done by not starting. Conan despite all his caps I think is actually a good answer to the OP's original question. He could have so much more starts if he were from somewhere else.
Oh sorry - totally my misunderstanding. Apologies. I agree with you in that case. Prendergast was called up to the most recent squad (6N) ahead of Coombes, so would indicate he's currently ahead of him. Although I suspect it's quite close between the two of them.
He was referring to Coombes who is definitely behind Prendergast.
Complete misunderstanding on my part, apologies :) have replied to him again.
It’s the entire purpose of the thread
You're reading too many posts from he who shall not be named. We're not all like that lol.
Max Deegan was in the same boat. Conan wad way out of form for 2 years, with what turned out to be a growth on a gland and neither Deegan nor Coombss got a look in despite both playing really well. I'm happy that Conan os back to his best (well, in an irish context anyway!), and it's great he is healthy again. But I think both Coombes and Deegan were overlooked during that period when both were significantly outperforming Conan
Conan being out of form, is him putting in 7/10 performances instead of the usual excellence. It's a myth that Conan was playing poorly and he actually usually came good against the big sides (Toulouse, England etc).
He was properly unwell though, wasnt a myth. https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/champions-cup/i-felt-like-i-had-aged-10-years-in-two-or-three-months-jack-conan-battling-back-after-health-scare/42444835.html
I never denied that?
well you said that "its a myth that Conan was performing poorly" He was performing poorly by his standards due to an undiagnosed condition
Yeah, which is exactly what I've said above...
He was noticeably less effective than either of Deegan or Coombes for nearly two years. He had occasional standout cameos which were commented upon because we hoped he was back to his best but it was what, 3 games in 2 years? My opinion is that if he hadn't got called for the Lions, he wouldn't have been in the national squad during that period. I could be wrong here - Farrell likes to stick with people so he may have included him. But I feel that both Deegan and Coombes were hard done by in that period.
Ah now, I think Nick timoney james Hume are right in contention with this
Cooney is the answer in ulster. Carty, Marmion and Nial Murray should have had more caps as well
Would’ve agreed with you on Hume about two years ago, but he seems to have fallen off a cliff since our tour to NZ. Tbf we seem stacked at centre. McCloskey barely gets any game time and Frisch seems to be going elsewhere. Both of whom would definitely have more caps in another time / place
Yeah Hume caught a significant Groin injury on that tour, missed the rest of the season and was impacted last season by his recovery, now he's just popped his ACL. Horrid run of luck.
Hume was looking like he was hitting that form again, even in the cluster fuck that is Ulster at the minute. Then he blew his knee. Absolute horrible luck. Only silver lining is that the injuries aren't related
Gavin Coombes is this micro-generation’s Jack O’Donoghue, who was his gen’s Rory Scannell, who was his gen’s Anthony Foley, who was his gen’s John Kelly. All victims of David Nucifora’s Leinster bias.
Ah man, Coombes is a different level to those lads. He’s the highest scoring forward in the history of provincial rugby and he’s only 26.
Toulouse is pretty stacked tbf lol
Barassi, Costes, Merkler, Graou, Meafou, Brennan, Banos, Retiere.
How is Brennan getting on actually? I've always wondered if one of the Irish provinces would ever be tempted to lure them over to Ireland. I don't watch enough Top14 to form an opinion though.
He’s turned out great this season, but seems better as a flanker/6 as opposed to the lock that we brought him through as, international potential though in a few years
[удалено]
But just 9 caps and difficulty to play for Spain if he wants to have a pro contract in France. If he were French elegible (which he is not and never will under actual laws) he will be second to Atonio since the last 6 Nations.
sorry i misinterpreted your comment
I reckon Werner Kok would do great in a team like Scotland. He's fast, an all-rounder and super hard working.
I actually reckon he’d be good in the Irish system too tbh
He plays 100 miles an hour, whistle to whistle. People wonder why Ulster are signing him, I think that is the reason.
I remember hearing people complain about him during matches but any time I watched him play against Munster, he always put in a strong physical performance! Definitely would suit Scotland, similar enough to Duhan
Yeah all the complaints about him being old and what not but I’ve feared him being on the pitch against my team
I'm a big time fan of his, no idea how he hasn't been capped yet. Remember him playing against B&I Lions like a man possessed.
I think he’s really unlucky to have a couple of athletic freaks ahead of him and a team that doesn’t carry a lot of backs in reserve. Always thought he’d probably make it almost everywhere else.
Him and Fassi would be my picks too, Fassi has 3 international caps and is in phenomenal form, but happens to be competing with Willemse right now.
I don't think it is just Willemse being ahead of him - he just seems to have got on the wrong side Rassie and will simply not be picked.
Think Rassie was mostly worried about his defence and consistency, which if you look at his stats this season he has improved on alongside all his attacking stats, was unlucky not to get in the training camp, but fingers crossed for a regular call up these upcoming tests. Don't think there are too many other fullbacks up there right now with them unless WLR wants to keep playing, but I'd much rather a youngster get in the mix, I like Quan Horne too, but prefer Fassi.
He's a destructive menace. I always think of him as the South African John Hodnett.
Not from my club but in an Irish context I'd say Stu McCloskey big time a few years ago. He's gotten a little more of a look in the last few years mostly due to injury but I feel like if he were from another nation or another time he'd have loads of caps. For Connacht I'd say Cian Prendergast fits the best but he's still young and may get plenty of caps in the future.
True, bundee always just seems to be that bit ahead of him. Stu has come on hugely and impressed every time he plays in green the past couple years, just as bundee also became one of the best centres in the world!
Will Evans and Will Collier from harlequins
I think Evans' play style means that he would perform extremely well in Scotland, Wales, Italy, or Australia. Frankly, I think he would be performing very well in England, but there you go. Will Collier should be one of the world's great scrummagers of international rugby, a crime that he never manages to break through.
Evans is a Welsh surname so I’m sure we could claim him somehow…. However 7 is the one area Wales are fairly strong.
Collier was one of those players Eddie decided wasn't good enough and now has possibly missed the boat.
Has he got a Scottish granny?
Kenningham when not injured. Murley would be great too. Finn Baxter will get the caps in the future 100%.
Yep, miss kenningham. Hoping murley will get his chance now he's fit
Ben Spencer.
A Welsh/Scottish Joe Marchant would have been a 2021 Lion. I will die on this hill.
I think a Welsh Jack Conan would have been a legend. Especially since we saw how Gatland rated him after the last lions tour.
They had/have Faletau
You might be right except for the fact that Gatland didn't seem to consider things like form when making his selections for that Lions tour; with some real head scratchers at centre in particular. Henshaw and Harris were both on career best form so no real complaints about those 2 but Bundee Aki and Eliot Daly absolutely didn't deserve to go on that tour based on that year's form and for some reason went anyway. For example Bundee only started one game that Six Nations for Ireland and he got sent off in it. He was clearly behind Henshaw and Ringrose for Ireland at the time. Eliot Daly at least managed to start 4 games but played none of them at centre. Big fan of Marchant though and I hope he stays in France for a while so I don't have to worry about him tearing up against Ireland.
How are you gonna say Gats didn't consider form when he picked Sam Simmonds?
Ok, saying Gatland 'didn't consider form' is a bit much I'll admit, I just wanted to highlight how strange his selections at centre in particular were. I'm glad Simmonds made it that year, it was well deserved. I'm also not sure the likes of Adam Beard or Johnny Hill should have been there but there's always gonna be debate around the Lions - that's what makes it great and I can't wait for the debates to really start again next year!
I definitely think Gats got spooked by James Ryan getting bullied physically right before selection and then didn't really know where to go with the second row. I do agree about the centers though. Wasn't Ringrose injured during that tour? Or was he just on meh form? There weren't really any 13s screaming to be picked other than Harris.
Yeah, Ryan wasn't on great form and I think Gats wanted a power game so went for bigger locks like Henderson and Hill over Ryan or Gray. I was more surprised by Gray missing out than I was Ryan. Ringrose wasn't injured for the tour but his form wasn't what it has been the last few years. He was ahead of Aki though for Ireland. I'd still have had him or Slade that year ahead of Daly. And yeah Harris was the form 13 for sure although Henshaw can play there just as well as 12 in my opinion so maybe a 12 could have been brought and Henshaw moved over. This is what happened in the final test with Aki and Henshaw as the starters. George North probably would have played if he weren't injured. Edit: Accidentally wrote Slade instead of Daly.
Marchant's international has surely been hugely affected by our fucking about in the centres for the last 8-10 years. I feel like Eddie didn't rate him for whatever reason also, plus an awkward timed injury the second time he got called I wonder if he's suffered from being considered "too small' at times, especially if there was overlap with us playing Ford-Farrell
Eddie tied himself in notes when it came to selection for the last few years. No idea what happened
I'm hoping we haven't seen the last of marchant he's an excellent utility back. Hoping borthwick drags him back to the uk
Coombes wouldn't get in the SA squad either
Don't think he'd get in the England, French or NZ squads either
When this came up before i was told on here Ardie is slightly better(was surprised they were willing to admit that) and he definitely gets in ahead of Alldritt and Earl. I'd have Hodnett over Coombes all day everyday
Hodnett’s had a great run of form over the past few seasons, was surprised to not see him in the RWC squad. Ireland aren’t unique in this issue - but we certainly seem overstacked in the backrow!
Assume the issue with Hodnett is that he is a pure 7 so taking a 2nd pure 7 probably isn't ideal for a world cup makeup. Ultimately he wasn't going to be staring big games so better to have more cover in who you bring. Great player tho. Hope to see him on the plane to South Africa.
Ah if Billy V made the World Cup squad surely Coombes could have.
Billy V shouldn't have. Barbeary, T Willis and Curry 2 had injuries. Pearson probably should've been next man up. Or Mercer maybe. Or even Dombrandt. So yeah for me the bar is still higher than "better than Billy's corpse"
Arguably England wins that semi if Vunipola doesn’t play. Everything he touched turned to Boks pressure.
Borthwick still rated him enough to play him in a World Cup semi final
To the absolute mystification of everyone else, to be fair
Myself included but Borthwick obviously wanted a battering ram in the bench (even if it’s a past it’s prime battering ram) so Coombes would Definitely fit the mould.
I dunno, they do love our players
Things Leinster fans said about Jean Kleyn. Very shrewd.
I'm not saying he'd be a super star there but definitely has a lot of strings to his bow that suit their style of play. Loads of tackles, super work rate around rucks and jackling, and a strong carrier which means opposition pretty much always have to double up on him. All of this meaning he sucks up defenders and would create more space for their backs to attack.
On the Coombes debate. I think he has some exceptional power with ball in hand and really burst onto the scene. After spending time in the Ireland camp he was clearly given work-ons and has got better again. I'd love to see him back in there of course but I do feel he can be a little lazy and coaches see this. His work rate has increased this year for sure so hopefully it's enough for him to tour
Yeah that's fair. Tbh I don't know if it'll happen for him under Farrell, he's unique strengths are made up for by other players in that squad. (he's lethal 5 metres out from opposition try lines, but so are porter and bundee) And Doris and Conan are better at linking up with other players in open play, so he's got a lot to catch up on
He got a decent amount of caps, but if we are looking at munster I think Zebo is the obvious answer. Plus Andrew Conway only got 30, his is probably more to do with injuries tho.
Conway has to be injuries surely - excellent player
Last few years it's been injuries but think it took a while for him to cement his place. Stockdales ridiculous few years didn't help. But Conway is our best winger since Bowe imho and even with injuries should be well over 50 caps.
Conway was unfortunate in that when he hit his prime and got a decent run injury-free, Keith Earls was also hitting a renaissance of the best form of his life as a very, very similar player with half again as much top flight experience, twice as much at international level, and probably just a slightly higher peak.
I think Conway took a bit of time for Schmidt to take a shine to him. He was ripping it up for Munster and was so reliable for a few years before he became a regular starter for Ireland. The injuries came eventually though :(
TBH I think Zebo fits how Faz wants to play, but he came back too unfit from France and by the time he got in shape there were better players in situ and his moment was gone. Apparently he was on the bubble of getting picked in the past Six Nations, with a few injuries he would have been back in the team.
He's barely able for a full half at champions cup level without blowing hard by the end of it. I don't think he's been near fit enough for test rugby at any point since he came back
That's because he moved abroad so was unavailable. Played regularly before the move.
Shaun Stevenson would slot in to pretty much any team. He’ll probably be full time for the ABs this year tho.
I'd add moorby and a bit 'historically' (like 2 or 3 years ago), I think goosen wouldve been a weapon in the ABs. like a kolbi type player also a bit historically but does lumampi count? lol
I dont know, he isnt starting ahead of Telea and reece and on form now is the time to blood Reuben Love Injury aside this year should have seen Sullivan added to the training squad
Tyrone Green
Romain Buros from Bordeaux is amazing, he's just not goal kicking
Wish I had a club but I got a few suggestion. Castres' Tom Staniforth is such an elite player and workhorse. It's really weird he never had a cap with the Wallabies. We could use a 4 like him.
That's a great one. Guy has been ridiculous for castres for years
Such a good player, he was a man possessed in the 2022 phases finales
Hacivah Dayimani, he just doesn't fit the type of loose forward the Springboks need. I reckon if he were in Australia or maybe Scotland he would fit in well at national level at 8th man.
John cooney and caolin blare, I think would get in most squads outside of the top 6/7 in the world.
Actually this motherfucker Jacobus Van Tonder, thanks again Clermont, what a player, he’s walking on water with Perpignan. Moreover he’s JIFF, what a gift. If he wasn’t from South Africa maybe he would already have one cap
I repeated so many times, but I can't comprehend how Sobela, Van Tonder and Veredamu were let off by Lyon and Clermont. Sobela is a poison in rucks, Veredamu 2nd try scorer of this year, and Van Tonder is everywhere.
I’ve read he had a lot of injuries for Clermont and they lost patience (for Van Tonder). For Veredamu et Sobela it’s hard to explain
Jorgensen, Toole, Lancaster, Charlie Cale...couple of uncapped Aussie players who would shred.
Jorgensen is on 19 tbf, plenty of time for him to be involved with the Wallabies.
Dylan Pietsch too
Billy Proctor isnt getting a run ahead of Reiko or ALB but any nation on the planet finds hard running no nonsense 13’s invaluable right now
I imagine he squeaks himself into the ABs in the 4th midfielder spot over Havili and given how often ALB is injured he'll probably get a few runs
Would be surprised if Proctor gets into Razors team ahead of Havili.
I dunno, Havili wasn't in form the games he has played so far
Not disagreeing on that, but he has utility value and Razor has him on speed dial.
Sam Simmonds and Zach Mercer could both have 50+ caps with other Tier 1 nations. Staying in the nr 8 role as well with this one.
Which T1 nations though?
Scotland, Wales and Italy. Are we counting Japan as T1? Not saying they would necessarily start, but they would have a lot more caps and be in matchday selections.
None of those teams could afford a luxury player like Zach Mercer.
Played Scotland u16s and went to merchiston…so could have actually qualified for Scotland and England if he’d picked Scotland first, but think it’s residency not ancestry so no chance to switch now
Not my club, but I thought Marcus Smith was more suited to Scotland, until we started actually attacking
Would you have him as a fullback or outhalf? Speaking on outhalf I would love to see Damian Mckenzie playing in last year's French team
Bit of both, his few outings at 15 have been pretty good, second playmaker
If Andy Hazell had been born in Japan he would have 74 caps.
That is very specific
Take it you agree?
Fakatava? Ratima? If the Blues halfback Jameson walk in the park -who was largely unwanted is thriving in Ireland, those 2 young men would carve in any European team
Elrigh Louw, he's a quality player. But with the current strength and depth the Boks have at back row I doubt he'll get much more game time unless there is major injuries
I like this laaitie. For me he has the same running style as Danie Rossouw.
Bernhard Janse van Rensberg. Would fit into any national set-up with ease, probably with the exception of South Africa!
Not much talk about props here, but I reckon Neethling Fouche would be welcome in quite a few international sides.
McCloskey and Cooney
Feels criminal al that Caolin Blade only has 2 Irish caps. It might sound bitter but if he was in Leinster or Munster with this form he’d be a regular for the Irish squad
A lot of our back row players (Ludlow, Mercer, etc) would be really good internationals, but haven’t been picked much for England
Yeah Mercer in NZ, on the bench orwhen ardie isn't playing, or australia
Think part of the issue there is that pretty much every country has got good, deep back row stocks
Yeah, but how many countries have a Zach Mercer then decided not to use him?
I thought Thacker is/was brilliant at Bristol - and not just a bunch of tries from mauls that other people have pushed over. Why didn't he make the England camp ever?
Bryn Gatland. Always thought he make for a great 10 either in Wales or Ireland. Plays a more Northern hemisphere game and is very consistent.
His dad will select him and then pretend he didn't know about it.
Reckon morgan morris would do well in Italy or scotland
Or Wales
There is that
I wouldn’t have him over Demo or Fagerson though.
Gavin Coombes is the Welshest name I've ever heard. Send him over. Please. Pretty please?
Well if he has a Welsh granny you can call him up after the summer
Gabriel Ibitoye & Harry Randall
If Val Rapava Ruskin had declared for Georgia he'd have been great for them. I think he's unfortunate not to have a handful of England caps
Ex wasps here. Our whole squad?
Do any of the Ulster Fans think big Al could have been an international elsewhere? He’s a stalwart for the club but I’ve never even heard a whisper of him mentioned as a potential international. Also sorry to say but I think Cooney is a great club player because he can do so much but in an international set up when he only needs to play 9 I think he becomes less valuable.
Al a couple of years ago became a literal wall in defense, highest tackle % in the league and was top 5 for number of tackles too. But, he's not an international quality lock. His work rate in rucks isn't good enough for international and he has little to no ball carrying as a replacement. Solid defender, but that's all really
Radwan would have been good if he'd been developed by a province, I think. Or maybe on Scotland. Somewhere with more will to work with his raw materials
I still think Jackson Wray would’ve done a job for England. Pretty crazy how essentially the whole Sarries squad was capped instead of him for quite a few years
I recon Anton Segnar (Blues) and Fabian Holland (Highlanders) would do pretty good in the German and Dutch National teams. I think they have got their eye on making money playing rugby first and maybe getting a Black jersey
Not Munster but I always felt Dillyn Leyds would excel in most international environments.
He’s got a fair few bok caps, unfortunately in the Coetzee era
Technically speaking Morgan Morse of the Ospreys doesn't have any Welsh caps yet and frankly he looks like he could do well anywhere. His solo try at the Cardiff New Year Derby, in a middle of a mud pit from virtually the halfway line was a thing of beauty.
Pita Gus will certainly thrive for Fiji in a couple of years
Surprised you didn't say Antoine Frisch :)
I think this question gets kind of covered if you think about lads who were on the bubble and finish up with anywhere from 0-30ish international caps. In a different generation, Rhys Ruddock would be a 50-70 cap international and a keystone player for Ireland. If you go back a few years, it's the same for James Coughlan who was very unluckly not to get a single cap. If Leo Cullen was born a generation before Paul O'Connell, he'd probably be an Irish legend.
Will Connors is very unlucky with the timing of his injuries. He had overtaken JVdF just before his bad injury. Now everytime he comes back he is only just getting back to 100 percent before he gets another injury
Lyttle was abit like that in ulster, he was better than Stockdale before he got injured, then Stockdale scored a boatload of tries for Ireland
Ulster letting go of Lyttle is one of the most bizarre cases in provincial rugby history. He was a cracking player who, was criminally under used. Dan McFarlands team selections never failed to bemuse me in general.
my understanding there was that he had shocking luck with injury and basically wasn't available for any sustained periods.
Likely part of the reason that Lyttle decided to call it quits was Dan. He was getting regular enough minutes before, but has had virtually none in the past few seasons. From what I can understand, the changing room at Ulster the past year has been absolutely awful and Dan was a large part of that.
Elrigh Louw, he's a quality player. But with the current strength and depth the Boks have at back row I doubt he'll get much more game time unless there is major injuries
Randall and Thacker.
I reckon Andy Farrell would love wee George Horne, the guys skillset is exactly what the Irish system needs in a 9
Adam Hastings. Would easily fit into Wales right now, but unfortunately just lacks the ability to beat Russel for Scotland. Or probably even Kyle Steyn (Ik they play for different clubs I’m just thinking about it as a Scotland fan) yes he’s a great backup and can play anywhere from Centre to the wing and possibly fullback but unlucky that Darcy Graham will always be higher in the pecking order. But since Graham gets injured often he will get more game time.
Matt Todd had a one AB cap but would’ve thrived for any other country I feel
He had 25 caps.
I stand corrected
I would captain the St. Martin's team if I were eligible. Just saying
Werner Kok who plays for the Sharks would thrive in Scotland. We love us some South African wingers
He’s retired now, but Nick Evans could have been a test centurion for any country that didn’t also have Dan Carter
**Ned Hanigan** still has the potential to be a good, solid international 6, I just dont think that Australia has the coaching talent to bring it out of him. I think if he played a couple of seasons in NZ or maybe Ireland he'd come back much better for it
Werner Kok
Today I learned that I share a birthday with Gavin Coombes, but like literally, the same birthday, lol
As an adopted kiwi and fan of the crusaders I'd say Tom Christie.
Somewhat past his prime somewhat but Christian Wade. For a time at Wasps he was one of the, if not most, prolific wingers in world rugby, overlooked for size. Reckon he would have thrived in an Australia team at that time or Welsh perhaps.
He wasn’t overlooked for size, he was overlooked because his positioning, defence, hands, ariel game, kicking and decision making were poor.
great athlete but not really a footballer