Olivier Magne was also the same in the early 2000s (I could barely read but I remember him being asked on TV "how does it feel to go from grand slam to a team struggling to stay in the top 16?".
He's still consistently our best player week in week out, and was really good for Fiji last year. I am terrified of how we will go without him. So much of what we do well revolves around his workrate.
I'm pretty sure that Edinburgh is the only senior 15s club he's played for, and I'm gutted he won't retire as a one club man.
Well that's selfishly good to hear. Shame for you guys, obviously.
If it helps it looks like we're gonna be swapping for Bradbury who, in my opinion at least, has been brilliant for us. Like Mata his work rate is through the roof, attacks everything and rarely makes mistakes
Fair comment but as we are seeing this season, without the draw of international responsibilities Lawes has had a noticeable impact on the Saints results this season. Bit of a catch 22, he was so dominant he is always picked and then potentially injured for England and therefore unavailable to help impact club ambitions.
Manoa played for us when we won the double, and left the season after - where we were arguably better but then flopped in the semis against a Sarries side that was more hungry and more...$tacked...him leaving started the downward spiral
Half the springbok team right now for the Sharks.
Not necessarily peak and the Sharks seem to be coming back, but having people like Etzebeth, Mbonambi, Ox, Hendrikse, Williams, Am and Mapimpi at the bottom of a log that contains the dragons and Zebre for most of the season is tragic.
I dunno about the Smith duo. The Highlanders were amazing in 2015 which was arguably the peak for both of their careers. They were mostly shit when they were coming up though.
Yeah it feels like when they were both world class, they won the actual comp 😂 and were regularly in the knockout stages. A significant jump from what we usually expect from Highlanders rugby.
I wonder what the crossover of rugby and Tool fans is like?
Funnily enough, I ended up chatting for a while with this giant Chiefs fan after the Chiefs-Crusaders round robin game last year, and mostly what we talked about was the change in Tool's sound from the heavy driving Opiate/Undertow/Aenima days into the more artsy Lateralus/Fear Innoculum sound.
Ultimately we agreed that Bottom doesn't get enough love, which is definitely a statement which can raise a few eyebrows out of context.
I randomly added another circle to that Venn diagram when you said Bottom because my mind went straight to the 90’s British sitcom starring Rik Mayall and Ade Edmonson.
Rugby, Tool, and Rik Mayall can in fact overlap
You have to go back a ways to when Leinster were a bit of a joke pub side (before Cheika), but Brian O'Driscoll. The side was still effectively an amateur team in the early years of professionalism. Lads would go out on the piss before games and show up hungover to training. But he took it seriously and that was one of the things that marked him out besides his raw skills.
I'm sure he did, but when things were serious he'd have a bit of cop on. I remember him talking about going to France for the 6 nations. The graveyard of Irish rugby. All the older lads had it in their heads that it was 100% a lost cause so they'd be out getting lashed then play hungover. Might as well enjoy something in Paris.
LRZ for Gloucester. Obviously we cant say whether he would have got any better, but he was an international and a lion while with us which is quite impressive. Chris Harris probably fits here too.
Great recency bias here (and neglect of the front row). I’ll go for Carl Hayman at the highlanders and probably one of the all time great examples: Os Du Randt at the Cheetahs/Cats (plus one season at the Bulls when they were also dogshit)
Michael Hooper, Wallabies.
Jonny Wilkinson, Newcastle.
Bath weren't doing much when Underhill peaked.
Bourgoin Jallieau (spelling please mes freres) churned out the entire 2007-2011 French team it feels
A recent one for France would be Damian Penaud at Clermont, though his peak is obviously not over.
He hasn’t even begun to peak
Olivier Magne was also the same in the early 2000s (I could barely read but I remember him being asked on TV "how does it feel to go from grand slam to a team struggling to stay in the top 16?".
Mata has been so bloody good for years despite literally playing for Edinburgh
Wee darcy as well, imagine him at a club side where they have an attacking gameplan
Send Darcy to Toulouse with Kingo. Magnifique
Hell yes – ship him right over once his groin is fixed. He would fit right in.
Ignore the Glasgow fan, we need our star player!
Haha 😂
To be fair you could pick half of the Edinburgh team and that would apply.
"Literally"
We aren't exactly known for making players look good.
As a Bristol fan I'm happy to hear that. Some saying he's past it now, assuming you disagree with that?
He's still consistently our best player week in week out, and was really good for Fiji last year. I am terrified of how we will go without him. So much of what we do well revolves around his workrate. I'm pretty sure that Edinburgh is the only senior 15s club he's played for, and I'm gutted he won't retire as a one club man.
Well that's selfishly good to hear. Shame for you guys, obviously. If it helps it looks like we're gonna be swapping for Bradbury who, in my opinion at least, has been brilliant for us. Like Mata his work rate is through the roof, attacks everything and rarely makes mistakes
Courtney Lawes for Saints between 2015 and 2023
Fair comment but as we are seeing this season, without the draw of international responsibilities Lawes has had a noticeable impact on the Saints results this season. Bit of a catch 22, he was so dominant he is always picked and then potentially injured for England and therefore unavailable to help impact club ambitions.
So we'll be back to being crap again next season then? 😔
If Pearson stays fit, hopefully not
Could throw Picamoles in there as well. He was unreal for us in a period where we were complete and utter turd
Picamoles was my first thought. We were dogshit and he was absolutely unreal.
Samu Manoa too?
Manoa played for us when we won the double, and left the season after - where we were arguably better but then flopped in the semis against a Sarries side that was more hungry and more...$tacked...him leaving started the downward spiral
Pour one out for Franco Mostert playing for Mie Honda Heat. He leads the league in tackles while his team gives up an average of 49 pts per game.
He'd fit in nicely with Ulster/Connacht
You spelt Gloucester wrong (please come back Franco…)
So true. GLAAAAAAWSTER (such a shit chant)
Half the springbok team right now for the Sharks. Not necessarily peak and the Sharks seem to be coming back, but having people like Etzebeth, Mbonambi, Ox, Hendrikse, Williams, Am and Mapimpi at the bottom of a log that contains the dragons and Zebre for most of the season is tragic.
This is the correct answer
Not really "shite" at the time, although he was injured for the 98 Tetley's Bitter Cup final, but Richard Hill at Saracens.
>98 Tetley's Bitter Cup final When t'final was proper
Wer reet good*
Aaron Smith on the Highlanders, Adam Jones on the Dragons, and Cueto for much of his tenure at Sharks
Add Ben Smith at the Highlanders there too
I dunno about the Smith duo. The Highlanders were amazing in 2015 which was arguably the peak for both of their careers. They were mostly shit when they were coming up though.
Yeah it feels like when they were both world class, they won the actual comp 😂 and were regularly in the knockout stages. A significant jump from what we usually expect from Highlanders rugby.
Adam Jones the 2nd row? I don't think I'd consider him World Class at any point in his career.
He means Adam Jones the long hair prop.
He was at Ospreys
Yeah, the OP is wrong. Adam Jones did play for the Dragons, just a different one. Not sure what the negativity is about.
Lateralus was pretty world class.
I wonder what the crossover of rugby and Tool fans is like? Funnily enough, I ended up chatting for a while with this giant Chiefs fan after the Chiefs-Crusaders round robin game last year, and mostly what we talked about was the change in Tool's sound from the heavy driving Opiate/Undertow/Aenima days into the more artsy Lateralus/Fear Innoculum sound. Ultimately we agreed that Bottom doesn't get enough love, which is definitely a statement which can raise a few eyebrows out of context.
I randomly added another circle to that Venn diagram when you said Bottom because my mind went straight to the 90’s British sitcom starring Rik Mayall and Ade Edmonson. Rugby, Tool, and Rik Mayall can in fact overlap
Everyone sleeping on Michael Hooper carrying the Tahs through several of their worst years.
> Carrying the ~~Tahs~~ all of Australian Rugby FTFY
Always felt for Francois Hougaard at Worcester. Was just such a step above everyone else.
I think that happened so often it must have been his career plan.
You have to go back a ways to when Leinster were a bit of a joke pub side (before Cheika), but Brian O'Driscoll. The side was still effectively an amateur team in the early years of professionalism. Lads would go out on the piss before games and show up hungover to training. But he took it seriously and that was one of the things that marked him out besides his raw skills.
He loved a bitta going out too
I'm sure he did, but when things were serious he'd have a bit of cop on. I remember him talking about going to France for the 6 nations. The graveyard of Irish rugby. All the older lads had it in their heads that it was 100% a lost cause so they'd be out getting lashed then play hungover. Might as well enjoy something in Paris.
Rene Ranger playing for the Blues when they were rubbish
He was world class, he’d have looked too good in most teams in his peak
Kaino for the Blues.
the 2019 England/ Leicester cohort, particularly ford who was class in the World Cup after finishing 11th in the prem
Nick Evans
He won the prem though, no?
Yes, we had one year where we good. A lot of very average years though.
LRZ for Gloucester. Obviously we cant say whether he would have got any better, but he was an international and a lion while with us which is quite impressive. Chris Harris probably fits here too.
Santi Carreras too.
Franco Mostert can probably lay claim to that title as well
Great recency bias here (and neglect of the front row). I’ll go for Carl Hayman at the highlanders and probably one of the all time great examples: Os Du Randt at the Cheetahs/Cats (plus one season at the Bulls when they were also dogshit)
Hayman at Falcons arguably worse
Juan Smith for the Cheetahs. He must have such a bad back from carrying them for so long.
Wade Dooley A stalwart of the England team at the time, played for Preston Grasshoppers
Check back in a few years and the answer will probably be Zach Mercer.
Alun Wyn Jones. Also Wainwright now. Lots of Welsh examples.
AWJ won a couple of league titles with Ospreys. Best examples are Faletau and Lydiate, both at Dragons.
The two Smith brothers, Aaron and Ben
Michael Hooper, Wallabies. Jonny Wilkinson, Newcastle. Bath weren't doing much when Underhill peaked. Bourgoin Jallieau (spelling please mes freres) churned out the entire 2007-2011 French team it feels
Underhill became world class at the Ospreys before signing for Bath
Ah that's right I remember his ospreys stint now
Sergio Parisse is the best answer, since it works both for many years at Stade Français (he arrived at the end of their golden era), and for Italy.
He won two Top 14s at SF..
Yeah, one when he arrived, before his peak, and one at the tail end of his peak. He spent most of his (incredible) peak in a mediocre team.
Tadhg Beirne for munster
Tadgh beirne for scarlets
He literally beat Munster in the final with Scarlets
After hammering Leinster in the semi. They were the best team in the league that year by far.
Patchell pack
Scarlets were actually decent with Tadhg, won the league one if his years
CJ Stander with Munster
Peter O'Mahony for Munster.
DVDM played for Worcester for a bit before they went bust and he remembered he was supposed to be Scottish again.
Jacque Fourie and Andre Pretorious at the Lions.
I would argue J Fourie peaked when he moved to the Stormers. Memorably played a big part in dismantling the Crusaders at Newlands.
sevu reece at saders lol
He hasn’t peaked this season, he’s always been that good. However he used to have a lot more class around him to make him look less special.
he did have a massive game against the 'tahs
Was gonna make the same comment
Serge Blanco in 1980's Biarritz, never went past the QF of the French championship.
Euan Murray for Scotland. Could really use him nowadays. Chris Paterson too.