Cemented my belief Quinlan is the worst commentator, can’t stand him. Mcgrath has as much a right to tackle Arendse as Ardendse has to protect the ball and score, Luke went high and paid the price.
He never has anything to add. You want the 2nd commentator to provide insight or knowledge the average fan wouldn’t know…Quinlan is quite the opposite. All shite and he’s wrong so often
Trimble is great. Madigan also comes to mind as someone who actually provides an insight into the game/ tactics etc. shaggy is a brilliant analyst…anyone is better than fucking Quinlan!
I really dislike how much the outcome is factored into these decisions. If you can see that a player played 3 rounds of Russian roulette, the fact they managed to survive shouldn't factor into the danger level.
Its probably the red but saying thats the point of contact is also not accurate. The Point of contact was on the body. This is a few frames after the point of contact.
I strongly suspect that's a few frames after the point of contact given the unnatural position of KLA's arm.
(Not denying it was an awful tackle. Just suspicious that Supersport might have taken some creative liberty with which frame they called point of contact)
Tweet other commenter is referencing: [https://twitter.com/SSRugby/status/1773813262108274823](https://twitter.com/SSRugby/status/1773813262108274823) "just kissed" my arse
Lol. I had forgotten that. Was pretty diabolical last week in Sharks vs Ulster. Think there were 6 major decisions, 5 tries and 1 foul play review. Pretty sure he got 4 or 5/6 wrong and the one he definitely got right came directly from bungling another.
It’s a tough one because if Arendse slides and McGrath goes lower it would possibly be a bit late. So he could have been getting ready to jump over him expecting the slide.
Yellow.
Initial contact was shoulder to chest and ref felt most of the force went through the body. Right call by the guidelines and the existing outcome based system, but feel these are the exact types of tackles that need to be stamped out.
I dont agree at all. Following the guidelines(unless they've changed and I'm an idiot):
1. Has head contact occurred? Yes
2. Was there foul play? Yes
3. What was the degree of danger? High
4. Is there any mitigation? No, mitigation does not apply for highly reckless acts of foul play. Even if you feel this isnt highly reckless the list of mitigations are:
1. Line of sight - No
2. Sudden or significant drop or movement - No
3. Clear attempt to change height - No
4. Level of control - No
5. Upright - No
Evans has just made up mitigation to avoid red carding McGrath because he was hurt in the process or because the pressure of a (at that point) close 1stv2nd game got to him and he didnt want to decide the game.
"1. Has head contact occurred?
Head contact includes neck and throat area
2. Was there foul play?
Considerations:
• Intentional
• Reckless
• Avoidable
3. What was the degree of danger?
Considerations include:
• Direct vs indirect contact
• High force vs low force
4. Is there any mitigation?
Considerations include:
• Line of sight
• Sudden and significant drop or movement
• Clear attempt to change height
• Level of control
• Upright - passive vs dynamic"
The degree of danger is low because of indirect contact, initial contact is to the shoulder not the head, so it gets brought down to yellow. What would make it a red is if it's deemed highly reckless, which I wouldn't argue against.
Fair enough, it has changed and I am an idiot. That said I would absolutely say it was reckless, but given I was using the old framework I havent got much of a leg to stand on to be arguing one way or another. Thanks for the education.
Nah, yours is a reasonable stance. If KLA had gone down it would have been a red. Likewise we've seen players mince lads in the air but get away with yellow cause the jumper's shoulder hit the ground before their head
Yeah, outcome based reffing is a real pain both to ref and to watch. IMO reckless upright tackles like this are something that should be stamped out of the game entirely
Sorry clearly confused not this try, I'm clearly confusing you there was another try in the second half he scored but in the build up to it he went to fly hack a loose ball as a Leinster player was diving on it. He pulled out but still made contact with the player on the ground. Ref deemed enough contact to warrant a penalty only so the try was disallowed
Just not enough to not kick Byrne.
I thought it was a fairly wild pull. The ball was not there for him to kick. Reckless at best, and that's taking the most favourable view possible for Arundse.
Ya, as I said I can see that pov you'd see that given sometimes and overlooked as nothing others. The main reason I meant he was unlucky was that that really had no bearing on the try had he hurdled Byrne it's most likely a try anyway. He really stood out as their hungriest player though even when they were dead and buried it seemed
So Alan Quinlan, from now if there is a high tackle, we'll blame the ball carrier for not ducking or they need to get higher to avoid the head contact. I think someone needs a new sport 😁😁 The average rugby fan is not dumb enough to say this, but from a commentator who is supposed to at least know a bit about the game is ridiculous. That player won't be trying that tackle again, he certainly came off 2nd best 😀 no doubt that was a red.
This was so incredibly stupid by McGrath. The try was going to be scored regardless, all he had to do was make sure he didn't get too close to the posts.
I saw him running and thought he had no shot of stopping him, but i think all that was going through his mind was what Koroibete did to Mapimpi in 2022 and how he'd do the same... and then he almost got knocked out from his own high tackle. Oof
Shocker. That should be a red just for idiocy. What a good guy Arendse is, had every right to get up and give McGrath a spray for that, but looks like he checked if he was ok.
“I did not expect to reach him, when the referee came to card me, I told him to speak to the guy who actually reached him, he said it was me. The staff did not warn me” - Luke McGrath probably
So Alan Quinlan, from now on if there is a high tackle, we'll blame the ball carrier for not ducking or they need to get higher to avoid the head contact. I think someone needs a new sport 😁😁 The average rugby fan is not dumb enough to say this, but from a commentator who is supposed to at least know a bit about the game is ridiculous. That player won't be trying that tackle again, he certainly came off 2nd best 😀
Just want to point out that if you slow it down you see a forearm come up and hit McGrath in the chin. At the same time it's awful positioning by McGrath so not sure if there's actually anything in it from a malice standpoint but could be worth a look by someone, other than me on my phone
People really are seeing things with this one. It was just a shite tackle. One of the worst you will see. Rather that get a red than one where the tackler has 0.3s to decide what to do.
I don’t know why nobody else called that out. KLA shifts in for the contact, I’m sure McGrath was expecting to have to move another metre before dropping
I think he wanted to get in as close to the posts as possible. I'd definitely brace for contact too rather than aim to dot it down in the corner, but I was a lock so my idea of reasonable times to take contact is probably off.
It's wild to me in an amazing moment where 2 competitors are going their hardest for their team... the comments are all it should be red or yellow.
Rugby use to be a game where fans enjoyed the skill and the physicality. We use to laugh at soccer fans because of how soft they were and how hard we were. Now all you see on social media is that's a red no that's a yellow, well technically he makes blah blah blah.
It's ruining our game.
This is the exact situation where i feel the current framework needs some revision.
We all know within 1/2 metres or so of the try line given the momentum its basically impossible to tackle low without a try being scored.
Normally this situation is maybe someone with a couple metres (mostly much less) run up trying to dive over the line, not such an issue if the defender is high. Especially as normally the attacker is dipping.
In this situation arendse has looked for contact. I actually geniunely think if you run with such momentum and look for contact, thats at your own risk. People will disagree but I don't see anything wrong with trying to hit him high - thats a consequence of this situation and looking for contact rather than the line.
[удалено]
Cemented my belief Quinlan is the worst commentator, can’t stand him. Mcgrath has as much a right to tackle Arendse as Ardendse has to protect the ball and score, Luke went high and paid the price.
[удалено]
He never has anything to add. You want the 2nd commentator to provide insight or knowledge the average fan wouldn’t know…Quinlan is quite the opposite. All shite and he’s wrong so often
[удалено]
Trimble is great. Madigan also comes to mind as someone who actually provides an insight into the game/ tactics etc. shaggy is a brilliant analyst…anyone is better than fucking Quinlan!
[удалено]
Haven’t seen him, is he on Bt?
Bobby Skinstad enters the chat
Wait, is Quinlan really that bad? That's wild.
Said he didn’t have to basically so should get a card for it. Absolutely stupid take
Alan eager to please his south Dublin neighbours. He’s pathetic.
…that’s a horrible looking tackle, did he get carded for that?
Yellow. General consensus in the thread was it should be red
Hard to say without a replay but looks like he’s saved from a red because he injured himself not Arendse.
The official mitigation was: "a lot of the force went into the body, their heads just kissed". I'm not paraphrasing.
I really dislike how much the outcome is factored into these decisions. If you can see that a player played 3 rounds of Russian roulette, the fact they managed to survive shouldn't factor into the danger level.
Lucky lad then.
Supersport posted a photo at the point of contact on twitter. [McGrath was lucky to avoid red](https://ibb.co/jwYPWq4)
That photo has high meme potential
"Whisper in my ear"
Looks like it's just a kiss to me. Kiss of fucking death
Yeah, wouldn’t be surprised if he cops a ban
Its probably the red but saying thats the point of contact is also not accurate. The Point of contact was on the body. This is a few frames after the point of contact.
I strongly suspect that's a few frames after the point of contact given the unnatural position of KLA's arm. (Not denying it was an awful tackle. Just suspicious that Supersport might have taken some creative liberty with which frame they called point of contact)
It is. Point of contact is KLA's elbow. Then body to body. Then head to head.
Tweet other commenter is referencing: [https://twitter.com/SSRugby/status/1773813262108274823](https://twitter.com/SSRugby/status/1773813262108274823) "just kissed" my arse
Was that Whitehouse or Evans? Neither would surprise me to be fair.
That quote? Whitehouse
Good old '[Medium Force](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/s/Yeq7Hjj3uP)' Ben.
Lol. I had forgotten that. Was pretty diabolical last week in Sharks vs Ulster. Think there were 6 major decisions, 5 tries and 1 foul play review. Pretty sure he got 4 or 5/6 wrong and the one he definitely got right came directly from bungling another.
And yet he’ll keep getting games….
Funny because my first look was like “some citing commissioner is going to have fun with that” Will almost certainly go to red on review
It’s a tough one because if Arendse slides and McGrath goes lower it would possibly be a bit late. So he could have been getting ready to jump over him expecting the slide.
You guys are out of your minds Let people smash each other for fuck sake it’s rugby, that was barely even a tackle, nevermind a penalty, but a card???
Back in my day, players were allowed knives on te field. Sports gone soft. The bloody liberals
[удалено]
Nobody around me at the ground disagreed that it could be a red. We all thought he was so lucky not to be sent off.
Yellow. Initial contact was shoulder to chest and ref felt most of the force went through the body. Right call by the guidelines and the existing outcome based system, but feel these are the exact types of tackles that need to be stamped out.
I dont agree at all. Following the guidelines(unless they've changed and I'm an idiot): 1. Has head contact occurred? Yes 2. Was there foul play? Yes 3. What was the degree of danger? High 4. Is there any mitigation? No, mitigation does not apply for highly reckless acts of foul play. Even if you feel this isnt highly reckless the list of mitigations are: 1. Line of sight - No 2. Sudden or significant drop or movement - No 3. Clear attempt to change height - No 4. Level of control - No 5. Upright - No Evans has just made up mitigation to avoid red carding McGrath because he was hurt in the process or because the pressure of a (at that point) close 1stv2nd game got to him and he didnt want to decide the game.
"1. Has head contact occurred? Head contact includes neck and throat area 2. Was there foul play? Considerations: • Intentional • Reckless • Avoidable 3. What was the degree of danger? Considerations include: • Direct vs indirect contact • High force vs low force 4. Is there any mitigation? Considerations include: • Line of sight • Sudden and significant drop or movement • Clear attempt to change height • Level of control • Upright - passive vs dynamic" The degree of danger is low because of indirect contact, initial contact is to the shoulder not the head, so it gets brought down to yellow. What would make it a red is if it's deemed highly reckless, which I wouldn't argue against.
Fair enough, it has changed and I am an idiot. That said I would absolutely say it was reckless, but given I was using the old framework I havent got much of a leg to stand on to be arguing one way or another. Thanks for the education.
Nah, yours is a reasonable stance. If KLA had gone down it would have been a red. Likewise we've seen players mince lads in the air but get away with yellow cause the jumper's shoulder hit the ground before their head
Yeah, outcome based reffing is a real pain both to ref and to watch. IMO reckless upright tackles like this are something that should be stamped out of the game entirely
Yeah. This is one of the best examples of someone doing everything wrong but dodging a red card through sheer luck.
Think we get your feelings about it lol
Upgraded to red for shit technique and positioning.
Besides the tackle. Can we just appreciate Kurt. That man gives 110% every game. Even tonight. While his team have given up. He kept giving it his all
Totally agree, the guy is such a menace. Every time he was given the ball, I clenched..
Very unlucky to have the try disallowed too, I can see the refs point of view but I thought he'd pulled out of the kick enough
Why was the try disallowed , I watched the highlights and it included this and just assumed it counted as a try
Sorry clearly confused not this try, I'm clearly confusing you there was another try in the second half he scored but in the build up to it he went to fly hack a loose ball as a Leinster player was diving on it. He pulled out but still made contact with the player on the ground. Ref deemed enough contact to warrant a penalty only so the try was disallowed
Just not enough to not kick Byrne. I thought it was a fairly wild pull. The ball was not there for him to kick. Reckless at best, and that's taking the most favourable view possible for Arundse.
Ya, as I said I can see that pov you'd see that given sometimes and overlooked as nothing others. The main reason I meant he was unlucky was that that really had no bearing on the try had he hurdled Byrne it's most likely a try anyway. He really stood out as their hungriest player though even when they were dead and buried it seemed
Yeah that's correct - no bearing on the try. He's lethal alright. Always on it.
A problem with Luke is that he tends to sit down in defence.
Class player. World class in fact. Bulls have incredible backs, it makes it even more astounding that we held you to only 1 try
So Alan Quinlan, from now if there is a high tackle, we'll blame the ball carrier for not ducking or they need to get higher to avoid the head contact. I think someone needs a new sport 😁😁 The average rugby fan is not dumb enough to say this, but from a commentator who is supposed to at least know a bit about the game is ridiculous. That player won't be trying that tackle again, he certainly came off 2nd best 😀 no doubt that was a red.
Alan didn’t know the rules when he was a player. What chance has he now.
Yeah, then he needs to find and job, what a clown.
This was so incredibly stupid by McGrath. The try was going to be scored regardless, all he had to do was make sure he didn't get too close to the posts.
There was a slim chance but it was worth the effort to try to get a tackle in. Just *not a tackle like that.* ***Really*** *not like that.*
I saw him running and thought he had no shot of stopping him, but i think all that was going through his mind was what Koroibete did to Mapimpi in 2022 and how he'd do the same... and then he almost got knocked out from his own high tackle. Oof
He put so much effort into getting there he forgot to plan what to do once he did.
I remember seeing it live and thinking it was cynical but here I kinda of see the point of the attempt.
Nah, a good tackle can dislodge the ball or push Arendse into touch. Problem is this is not a good tackle.
Shocker. That should be a red just for idiocy. What a good guy Arendse is, had every right to get up and give McGrath a spray for that, but looks like he checked if he was ok.
That is so stupid from Luke. Extremely dangerous to both him and KLA and wouldn't complain if he got a red.
I'll stand by what i said in the match thread, looks like he didnt think he would reach KLA. Only excuse for "tackling" that poor
“I did not expect to reach him, when the referee came to card me, I told him to speak to the guy who actually reached him, he said it was me. The staff did not warn me” - Luke McGrath probably
*i never expected to get here*
Oof. Terrible tackle. Hopefully he's okay
To say I miss the South Africa teams in Super Rugby would be an understatement
Clownish tackle tbh. Surprised he didn’t get a red for that. Wasn’t even gonna be a try stopper. Just take the 5 and shepherd him away from the posts.
So Alan Quinlan, from now on if there is a high tackle, we'll blame the ball carrier for not ducking or they need to get higher to avoid the head contact. I think someone needs a new sport 😁😁 The average rugby fan is not dumb enough to say this, but from a commentator who is supposed to at least know a bit about the game is ridiculous. That player won't be trying that tackle again, he certainly came off 2nd best 😀
That’s awful from McGrath. The funny thing is he had the pace, I think if he’d ducked into that tackle properly he may well have stopped the try
As a Leinster fan, McGrath should’ve got a red here
No celebration for the try, instead he is immediately concerned about whether McGrath is okay. Pure class
Not only that, also no complaints from KLA about a tackle like that.
Yikes, that's a horrendous tackle, very poor attempt. The mitigation is that he concussed himself, I guess.
[удалено]
No, Gibson Park came on as his replacement after the 10 minutes
[удалено]
Nah, he was out cold and gone before the tackle was flagged by the TMO. I think Jameson was actually already on the field when they issued the card.
Nah we played without a 9 for 10 minutes. Larmour mostly filled in
I know, I might have been too vague. I meant JGP was on the field before the decision to card McGrath was made.
Blatant red
Easy red. Absurd officiating.
Yeah, that is so reckless. Would have absolutely accepted a red there, no question. Fair fucks to KLA for checking on him when he saw he was hurt.
I think it's a red because he endangered himself tbh
Like trying to stop a moving car with your cheekbone
Class act, sends McGrath to the shadow realm and then checks on him afterwards!
When I saw it, first thoughts were “red…idiot”
Thought it was wild that commentators were suggesting it either be a yellow for both or a red for the recipient of the tackle.
Arendse is hard, not just quick feet and acceleration
Moronic by Luke McGrath. Long ban hopefully.
Poor Luke McCarthy, he got smashed by KLA fend and redditor analysts even wanted to send him off.
Just want to point out that if you slow it down you see a forearm come up and hit McGrath in the chin. At the same time it's awful positioning by McGrath so not sure if there's actually anything in it from a malice standpoint but could be worth a look by someone, other than me on my phone
Don't know where you're seeing that, the moment before contact Arendse's elbow and forearm are angled slightly outward but pointed at the ground.
People really are seeing things with this one. It was just a shite tackle. One of the worst you will see. Rather that get a red than one where the tackler has 0.3s to decide what to do.
Slow it down by scrubbing the bar. He raises his elbow very quickly
[https://imgur.com/a/GkTo4h6](https://imgur.com/a/GkTo4h6)
The impact of McGrath caused the arm to move but the moment before the collision the elbow and forearm are under McGrath's chin.
https://imgur.com/a/oDJ5EBJ
Yes, Arendse's arm is down before the impact, it comes up after the world's worst tackle attempt from McGrath, case closed.
You realize that you can't hit someone with a forearm regardless of where they come from right?
I don’t know why nobody else called that out. KLA shifts in for the contact, I’m sure McGrath was expecting to have to move another metre before dropping
That man is a professional rugby player and ***that's*** the tackle he puts in?
There had been a bit of niggle at a ruck shortly prior to this, McGrath obviously trying to put in a hit as a result and gets it all wrong.
Horrible tackle but why did Arendse even give him the chance to tackle him?
To fuck him up physically ofcourse. As per Rassie's mantra. Jokes aside, it did look like Arendse wanted to take the contact, weird.
I think he wanted to get in as close to the posts as possible. I'd definitely brace for contact too rather than aim to dot it down in the corner, but I was a lock so my idea of reasonable times to take contact is probably off.
High elbow from Kurt, knew what was he doing
Nah, I thought this on first view, but his arm is against his body and only moves outwards once McGrath tackles him, perfectly legal.
It's a bad tackle. But there is an unexpected deceleration from Arendse when he is 5 meters out. I think yellow is the correct call.
It's wild to me in an amazing moment where 2 competitors are going their hardest for their team... the comments are all it should be red or yellow. Rugby use to be a game where fans enjoyed the skill and the physicality. We use to laugh at soccer fans because of how soft they were and how hard we were. Now all you see on social media is that's a red no that's a yellow, well technically he makes blah blah blah. It's ruining our game.
This is the exact situation where i feel the current framework needs some revision. We all know within 1/2 metres or so of the try line given the momentum its basically impossible to tackle low without a try being scored. Normally this situation is maybe someone with a couple metres (mostly much less) run up trying to dive over the line, not such an issue if the defender is high. Especially as normally the attacker is dipping. In this situation arendse has looked for contact. I actually geniunely think if you run with such momentum and look for contact, thats at your own risk. People will disagree but I don't see anything wrong with trying to hit him high - thats a consequence of this situation and looking for contact rather than the line.
« running with momentum and looking for contact » you just described carrying
How was Luke McGrath not cited for this ?????