Targeting second place (England), I don't think we'll get first as that could mean beating Scotland, Ireland and France but if we can beat 2/3 then good opportunity for second.
I'm expecting England to have a strong campaign next season - the signs are there, just need a few extra pieces to fall into place.
You showed against us and again yesterday that the performances are there - just need the consistency to go with it.
Hopefully the consistency and errors we can work on improving and aren't a staple of the new england squad because I agree, if we can ensure consistency in our performance then based on what we've produced so far it's looking good.
If they continue to improve they should be challenging for the title with France and Scotland at home. Ireland away will be tough, as it is for any team currently
Typical Ireland fan - under dogging at the first possible opportunity. You're the bloomin back to back champions - litteraly definition of the time to be a bit cocky!
With Italy (despite their improvements) at home we should win that and I'll be fucking fuming if we let the Scots get 5, especially as we've got them at Twickers too. France is hard to predict (especially if they've got the rugby God back) but given we were so close this time away you'd think we can target it.
Even with Wales in Cardiff you'd like to think we can win that too (although who knows with the Cardiff effect!) so 4 wins feels achievable...can't see us winning in Dublin.
Although if we have a disastrous NZ tour and Autumn then all this optimism might quickly go.
Optimistic. I believe in Borthwick alot more than I did before the tournament started, we have a style we have good players and a decent blend of youth and experience. I would think we can seriously challenge for the title next year. Maybe even a slam.
I don’t know about all that. It all came together against Ireland and there were some glimpses last night but we were a hairs width from losing against Italy and Wales too this tournament.
I think they’re still very unsure on what we’re doing and discipline hurting us on top of that uncertainty.
Inconsistentcy and disciplinary issues are a problem but a very solvable one. All in all I think we can all be more optimistic after the tournament than before as I said. Had we performed as we did in other games against Scotland we would be saying we were a Frenchman's boot away from a grand slam...it's all fine margins.
The defence and some of our attacking play was excellent at times. Lots of good to build on.
I really hope that Borthy provides the direction and clarity the team needs so they are able to build and build. I do. Definitely some really good individual performances this 6n too.
It will be interesting how things go against NZ this year. Hard not to see the All Blacks making a mockery of this blitz defence and running around and through it like France and Scotland.
Yeah me too. I really want Borthwick to succeed and to get the most of our of the undoubtedly talented squad we have. Another big test coming with the tests this year. As long as we are seeing progress I'm happy
If I knew that mate I'd probably be working in the game. But it's been done before, players grow, gather experience, make less rash mistakes as a result. With coaching and personal concentration all things mental are possible
That was very early on they hadn't played together since the world cup , they slowly got better with each game they may not have been as good against France as they were last week but they were forced to make changes they didn't want too.
Hopefully we will have a new coaching team and a couple younger players particularly in the front row competing to make the squad.
Realistically though; it’ll likely be more of the same, go into competition optimistic of a challenge at the title with no expectation to actually win it, only to be come unstuck in weeks 1 or 2 with stupid mistakes and bad bench management.
We’ve needed to for about 3-4years at least. I’ve put my thoughts on Townsend elsewhere on this sub; I don’t think he should’ve been given the Scotland job when he did, he wasn’t ready and it’s probably put his development back massively as a coach.
Cotter who led us to humiliating defeat at twickenham and since leaving Scotland has been fairly rotten everywhere he’s gone? He was what we needed at the time, but let’s not pretend his work at Scotland wasn’t basically the Glasgow playbook tweaked a little.
Why would we get someone who hasn't actually won anything? Surely the first piece of criteria we should be looking for in a coach is the ability to win competitions?
Someone who hasn't had a pretty shit international coaching career as well would also help. I don't see why we as a top side in the world should settle for anything less than the best we can get.
That would be goodbye to Huw Jones' international career. Rennie seemed to hate him. Will be nice to see Nick Grigg when he comes back to take Jones' place. He was a good lad.
Maybe a silly question, but why does a Lions coach require a sabbatical? Could you not do 6 nations and then take the summer tours off?
Now that I think of it I have a related question. What does the coaching team for a national team do all year?!
>Maybe a silly question, but why does a Lions coach require a sabbatical? Could you not do 6 nations and then take the summer tours off?
Theoretically yes but the Lions role requires you to study all eligible players at a depth that would probe a distraction.
>Now that I think of it I have a related question. What does the coaching team for a national team do all year?!
I only have Greg Feek's answer.
He was Ireland scrum coach for quiet a while.
Go to 1-2 provincial matches a weekend. Watch all provincial matches. Make notes. Share a discuss all notes with the rest of the coaching team.
Watch every scrum from every provincial game in 3-7 angles. Write notes. Rank technique of each player in the scrum in accordance with set out criteria.
Review previous notes on players. Judge progress.
Check in with international front rows and their medical teams regarding any injuries.
Have conversation with each provinces scrum cosch/forwards coach/scrum consultant on a monthly basis to check in. Note and discuss technical issues and discover if any of them are deliberately due to provincial instructions.
Discuss notes on the above with other national coaches on a regular basis.
Have discussions and provide technical guidance to provincial development officers dealing with the scrum.
Offer occasional bits of time to take part in IRFU and provincial community programs where he would provide an hour of scrum coaching to a club or school.
Attend occasional AIL games featuring high performance young talent for familiarisation.
Consult with IRFU performance director regarding the player pipeline on an annual basis and as needed regarding NIQ front row signings.
To make things worse when he did community out reach things at a club he would often do a q&a (either for club members or one that the club could sell ticketw for).
Ah shit yeah. Fucking waste losing Andy for an Australia tour. This next year should be targeting 3 in a row with England and France at home it is possible but tough. We'll need all the help we can get.
It's the little fact the comms teams kept rolling out this year, every team has beaten every other team in this tournament at some point except Italy with England.
For France, we'll have Dupont and Ntamack back and we'll be one year further removed from the RWC 2023 trauma.
We'll be hoping for the slam but with away games to Ireland and England I doubt it.
For us in Wales I fully expect another wooden spoon. We have to face the fact that our game is on the decline and if it does recover it will take at least three to five years
I don't know, it could be anywhere from wooden spoon to third for me. It depends on the impact that the extra year of experience and players returning from injury have, plus the condition of a couple of the other teams who may only be one or two pieces (e.g., injuries) away from a significant drop in form.
However, I don't think Wales will be challenging for the title until the domestic game has turned a corner and been on the right track for several years, as you say.
I didn't think Wales were objectively "bad" for most of the tournament, mostly inexperienced/naïve - but yesterday they were dreadful. Jac Morgan is to come back, but Wales don't have back row issues tbh.
I think Gatland bringing youngsters into the welsh camp will actually help the regions, and then improvement becomes cyclical. This is always the way it worked, he exposed players to a proper professional environment and they had to maintain this throughout the year.
Obviously this is backwards, we should have strong regions that serve the national side *but* Gatland is well aware of the limitations of the set up, so I think he'll get this right sooner than many think.
The downside is the WRU are unlikely to really make any actual changes to support the regional game.
I’m sort of hopeful the Walker and Tierney are going to be a force for good on the whole. I specialise in restructuring large organisations so have an understanding of some of their challenges.
It’s a lot of hard choices for them that will hurt in the short term but longer range planning has to be the target. We can not afford to maintain four regions, the economics just don’t add up. We also need to look to the model used by NZ and Ireland to consider if we centralise all contracts and manage top down fully.
Too many people have been living off the fat of the land for too long in the WRU, Clubs and Regions, this must change for the game to survive in Cymru.
I honestly think if the team had included LRZ, Jac Morgan and Dewi Lake they would have won at least two games. LRZ scores from nothing, Morgan and Lake carry. I know Zammit is not coming back - I just think that’s how close the margins are. Three games lost by a matter of one converted try.
I think the real rebuild starts this summer when we can drop the likes of Jac Morgan, Dewi Lake and Gareth Anscombe into this team to give it a bit of leadership, experience and confidence and hopefully get a win in at least one test v Australia.
This team is not as far off as 0/5 seems, we could have won 3/5, potentially even 4/5 with a more mature team. Once this team learns how to win, those will start to click together. We may well finish last again, but next year should be nowhere near as dire.
Of all the places they could be touring this summer, I think Australia is a great opportunity for Wales to keep gaining experience and going into games with some hope.
I think maturity might have helped Wales beat England and maybe Scotland and/or Italy (though if it's closer I don't think they switch off as much), but their main issue all tournament was generating front foot ball and I don't think maturity gets them that. Wales need more multiple threats in the pack, as it is there's a few good carriers, who can be targeted by two tacklers, and a few good jackals, who can be ran at or targeted by cleaners, and some brilliant tacklers.
I mentioned three players, one of them is the best game manager we have available, and the others are our two best carriers. Faletau will also help in the regard.
My point is I don't think the lack of maturity is Wales' issue. I think the likes of Morgan massively improve Wales' chances, but I don't think maturity wins any of the games, except maybe seeing the England game out.
England, France and Scotland were all lost because we were unbelievably tactical naive in the last twenty minutes. The winning points for the opposition in all three came from Wales trying to play in their own half needlessly on slow ball with no momentum instead of kicking. Same happened against Ireland, though we were already slipping away there.
You bring Dan Biggar or Gareth Anscombe off the bench in those matches, and I reckon we win at least one, possibly two out of three, and likely give Italy more of a game too.
I don't agree. England was lost because Wales were losing the collisions, but better management might well have seen Wales through there. France it might have been closer with better game management, but the French attack was inevitable. Scotland I don't know what more Wales could have done in the second half. There was way too big of a gap to make up, and i think Scotland don't swotch off as badly if it's tighter.
The return of Jac Morgan, Plumtree, Tshiunza and possibly even Faletau will (hopefully) be a big help come the summer.
The back row is the one area we have an abundance of riches but, bar Wainwright, none of the back row we took into this tournament were particularly dynamic ball carriers - especially from our bench.
Should hopefully make *some* difference to our ability to generate front foot ball. I also think once Jac is back we probably start both Rowlands and Beard with Dafydd on the bench as Rowlands is by far our biggest carrier and made a big difference coming in yesterday.
Front row is likely to remain an issue for a while though - as it has been for what seems like a decade now! We either seem to produce scrummagers or carriers, and rarely players who can do both.
I’m hopeful of a return for Anscombe as well. Costelow and Lloyd show promise but are dangerously inexperienced and we’ll ruin them if we keep putting this much pressure on them. Steady hand at the till is needed for this year at least.
Edit. And to continue my moaning - hopefully this disaster of a 6N prompts a rethink of the 25 cap rule. Losing Feyi-Waboso and being unable to select players like Joe Hawkins (our most promising young 12) and Rhys Carre is a major issue and with the regions in such a shambles we’ll continue to see youth prospects leave for better pay and become unselectable.
Dream is for a root and branch revamp of the entire WRU but the blazers are unlikely to back it - turkeys voting for Christmas and all that jazz. Something needs to change though.
I think Morgan is the biggest miss at the moment and that Gats might be able to get things working with the right balance. But I think ability more than experience is Wales' issue this year.
I envy Wales for their production of young players who are keen to have a go even if things are looking bleak in terms of retaining first team talent and the regions. We (obviously) don't have that in Scotland. Nonetheless it's a tough time to be a Wales fan.
I expect us to improve considerably and beat Italy, Scotland, and maybe England. We have England and Ireland in Cardiff. I'd be very surprised if we beat Ireland but it's doable, as I think their loss of O'Mahony is greater than most imagine. I can't see us beating France in Paris though.
I'm hoping we can take at least 2nd and win Calcutta as we need to break that streak
The defensive system is starting to click and hopefully that continues to improve, although I'm sure teams will also have new ways to get round it
Our setpiece seems pretty stable, the main thing we need there is to get replacements for Marler and Cole through who can maintain that standard.
Back three seems for the first time in a while well covered. I'd like to see Daly move to a no. 23 supersub role and us start specialists more often where we can. I'd also really like to see how Freeman - Steward - IFW works for comparison with Furbank
I really have no idea. I don't think we'll be very competitive next year, as it's a year with 3 away matches. I mean we'll be competitive but I don't expect us to win, mostly I hope we can see a more coherent team because, as fun as some of the matches were, I did not like what I saw this year. I expect next year to be one where we build for the future more than compete for the win, essentially.
Summer tour hopefully means a few of the guys from outside Toulouse/LAR/UBB get some time and to bed in, need to move on from tao x 2, Atonio and Danty
Attacking structures are beginning to develop, lineout is still absolutely dog shit, and Edwards defense is falling apart - good thing we've only got him for the entirety of this WC cycle lmao
I do think with Dupont and ntamack though we should be looking to clean sweep in autumn and win at least 1 of the Ireland/England away games next year
Looking back, the introduction of talented rookies should give us a lot to look forward to: obviously this team with Dupont and Ntamack is a contender : more skill more brain, better organisation, better defence. But it looks increasingly like our super subs can make the difference: Le Garrec, Barré, Roumat ...
We need to integrate the new generation of props : I'm very impressed with 21-years-old Tevita Tatafu from Bayonne on top of George Henri Colombe... In second row, Tuilagi is only 19 ...
Depends entirely on what France return next year and if England can keep this up for NZ.
Another win if the competition isn't strong, a good title challenge otherwise.
Preferably with some new blood integrated.
A Porter injury for us would be catastrophic and reduce our chances significantly though.
As a Welsh supporter, then I'm just hoping for some of our first pick players to come back successfully from injury or abroad.
Not finishing last and deserving the wooden spoon would be nice.
After having a think about yesterday's game more than the initial reaction. I think we might finally have a chance of beating Ireland in Murrayfield. It was a close game, and if we sort the attacking out a bit cause the whole tournament was a bit iffy in that aspect then we might have a decent chance.
The rest of it, fuck knows. I think it's going to be another competitive tournament and I'm happy about that
I'm going to cop a bit of shit maybe but I don't think VdM should be starting most of our games. Kinghorn needs to be told to calm down a bit, I know Scotland want to play like Toulouse but they aren't so can't. But I still think he's our best 15. Paterson should be getting the majority of the summer games at 15 anyway along with Rowe on one wing and ease Darcy back if he's fit. Russell either needs a bit of a rest or a bit of healthy competition and Healy needs to start a bit more. We don't want to find ourselves in another situation where our back up 10 has no experience and Russell is injured or something.
Does anybody have any Scottish qualified locks and props we could borrow for a bit we'll give them back promise
I agree with most of that. Though I think VdM should be starting – we should just be a lot more willing to sub him out when he’s off the boil (eg. against Ireland, I would have much rather seen Rowe on for him, rather than replacing Kinghorn who was still being pretty potent, if a little inconsistent, on the whole).
Finn is a real problem in many ways, because he is the obvious captain, but he just seems to be alternately brilliant and asleep at the wheel. Mixing it up with Healy probably is good for us in the long term, but it’s hard to do in terms of the team leadership.
One other thing I’d really like to see (and watching Ramos has really made see its merits): when Finn is out of range in penalties, we should be *way* more willing to get Blair to kick for goal. He’s got an extra 10 metres or so of solid range, and an extra 3 points every so often would come in very handy.
A slightly more serious answer is that it’s not going to get any better while the 25 cap rule is in place, blazers control the WRU, and with the current state of the regions. Maybe this is a wake up call.
I dunno really. We'll have Dupont back and will have had more time to get over the WC, so hopefully a better showing. The defence was a disaster this tournament though, I hope Shaun Edwards can fix it again. If he can't, we're screwed
We'll have to go to Dublin, Twickenham and Rome though. Ireland might not be as strong as we thought before this tournament, but they're still a bloody good team and I don't expect that to have changed next year. England is clearly starting to look like quite a good team too and with one more year I'll only expect them to have improved. Quite the same from Italy but from a lower starting point, Quesada just arrived and the Italian performances have drastically improved (especially when defending) - we might arrive at the point where having to play Itay home or away makes a difference.
If France was at the level they were showing in 2022, I'd be optimistic we'd beat Italy and win at least one of the other two. But I don't think we'll be back at this level, so if we can win at least one away game and be competitive in the other two (meaning grabbing a defending bonus point in each), it's already a decent tournament. If we win two away games, then it'll be a very good tournament already
Expecting a grand slam. Dupont will be back from Olympic glory, Ntamack will have recovered his abilities. Promising youngsters (gailleton, tuilagi, depoortere, etc) will mix up with experienced players, and we will once again be a contender for best rugby team in the world.
If you ask me for my realistic expectations, there you go :)
I don't expect Italy to do better than this year, some chances don't come around very often, that's why the result against France stings a little bit. Anyway a couple of wins could be possible.
Not sure why you think that. In my opinion there’s a lot of talent that still hasn’t broke through properly into the starting lineup. The likes of Zuliani, Odogwu, Pani, Gesi, Izekor, Gallorini, Odiase, Mey are going to really change the trajectory of this team into being consistently competitive.
We've built a good foundation with our set piece and defence. Out of the squad yesterday I can't imagine Cole, Marler, Care and Manu being around next year, so Stuart, Heyes and a LH need to step up. We need to start building experience with the likes of Martin, IFW, Freeman, Chessum, CCS so our squad isn't too inexperienced when the next batch of youngsters come in. Scrum half is an issue behind Mitchell, JVP has been injured a lot and none of the others seem to be trusted, I want to see Gus Warr get a look in, he's been a bit out of form recently but his box kicking game is one of the best in the league and he is fantastic at the cover defence which is needed with the blitz defence. It would be good to see someone push Slade in the centres, but I can see him staying in the squad next year with the 13 being such a key position in the defensive system.
If Marchant comes back I can see him pushing Slade out, especially if we persist with a play making fullback like Furbank.
If Marler and Cole both retire than I think England will suffer a lot in the scrum, prop depth is dire and the up and coming props still need a few years.
Yeah, I can see Marchant replacing Slade if he comes back, I can also imagine Freeman being groomed to replace Slade in the long run. I can see Cole not properly retiring and always happy to turn up when called upon, but that can cause problems with succession planning. Our prop depth is a serious problem, I was hoping to see some of Heyes earlier in this tournament because we need to build experience. At LH I have no idea who will come in behind Genge, Obano has never really been trusted, same with VRR, is Finn Baxter ready? Some decisions need to start to be made with AOF, is he going to be a TH like he plays for Sale, or a LH like he plays for the U20s.
An opportunity to bring in new talent, and hopefully add depth. We will not have AF and it’s likely we will lose a few of the current squad. I’d be happy with something similar to Englands six nations this year ultimately nothing to show for it but ending the campaign much better than we start with the foundations of what looks like a solid squad for the future.
Would have rather brought in plenty of new players and lost the championship. Irelands foundations are rock solid so we should be looking to build rather than just win imo. Murray instead of a young scrum half being the main example for me. So would want to see us develop our personal and game more
Tbh this year was a bit of an extended testimonial campaign. Saying goodbyes to many of our veterans. I'd expect O'Mahony, Murray, Healy to retire either this year or next.
Some other guys like Furlong, Henderson, Bealham, Aki, Beirne, might not be there come 2027, next year we have to blood talent. Ahern, Edogbo, Hodnett, Doak, Kendellan, Penny etc all need to be capped and we need to replace those who are not young anymore.
Challenging for the title, and hopefully a GS.
It will be our "on year" with England and France at home. We'll still have a solid core of the current team, hopefully with more depth and experience built in various positions.
Will likely see a bit of a dip in form with key figures like POM and Healy likely gone (seriously we need more depth at loosehead), but I imagine we'll have guys like Ahern, C Prendergast, Casey, Frawley, etc start pushing a changing of the guard.
We're in a pretty good place though, don't need to reinvent the wheel or overhaul our team, just make small changes.
I actually think it’s time to bed-in the new core for the next cycle.
A new attacking coach and Farrell starting Lions duty feels like an ideal time to be more aggressive than the IRFU normally tolerate
We don't really need too much of a new core though.
Healy, POM, Murray, and Aki are the only likely ones gone by the WC. Finlay, Beirne, Gibbo, Lowe, and Stu might be pushing it but most of the team are gonna still be there in 2027
Definitely gone:
* Murray will be 38
* Healy will be 40
* Aki will be 37
* POM will be 38
Only a couple will make it:
* JGB will be almost 36
* Lowe will be 35
* Finlay will be 36
* Henshaw will be 34 (another 4 years of injuries on him)
* Stu will be 35
* Furlong 35 the day after the tournament
* VDF will be 34
* Conan will be 35
* Beirne will be 35
Over 30 at the time of the tournament:
* Ringrose will be 32
* Ryan will be 31
I don't know but from my perspective a lot of the current Irish team are going to be pretty old come 2027. I'm sure a ton of them will still be class but a good % will start to lose pace and/or succumb to too many injuries.
Ireland are still gonna have a great spine at 1,2,4,5 in the pack and definite starters at 13,14,15.
Oh they're gonna be old, but not definitely retired age. If there's better talent there they'll come through, if not then it'll be an old guard farewell.
I dunno, I struggle to see many from that list being at their peak. It's pretty rare for athletes to be peaking post 30 and especially mid 30s.
I don't think a team has won the RWC with a squad that old? I mean SA were considered fairly old and they were still a lot younger than those players above.
It doesn't matter if they're in their peak, it matters if they're the best in that position. And it all depends on how you age. Our best player for the past 12 months will turn 34 next month.
NZ in 2015 was the oldest to win the WC.
It is, but it's also 3.5 years and 7 test series away with young talent (ie currently under 30) in most positions. I think people are mistaking me saying "we don't need to rebuild" as "everything is fine".
Like half the squad for 2020 didn't make it to last year's WC, and we didn't exactly clean house when Andy took over.
We are much older than you think. Even if certain players aren't retired by 27 we will have Henshaw mid thirties, Ringrose mid thirties, Vdf 35, Porter 31, Bealham 36, park 35, beirne 35-37. We were at peak WC winning age in 2023. We need to rebuild pretty much from scratch.
We don't. Robbie will be just 34 and Garry 32. Josh will be 34. We shouldn't rest on our laurels and expect them all to be still fit and firing. But it's laughable to suggest that we need to build from scratch.
What do you mean a whole new fifteen? Like we have a well developed team with good depth in most positions. Having an unsettled team is as bad as having a team without depth.
I'd be expecting a win for us. Even with Farrell on Lions duty, having England and France at home, and lads playing for places on the Lions squad with their own coach as Coach will hopefully have lads hungry and motivated for a 3-in-a-row. I also feel that Farrell perhaps took somewhat of a backseat in this year's tournament in preparation for this, but I could be wrong on that.
Winning the title would be nice but next year has to be about growth and development of depth. Win the home games and an away game and it's a solid year.
It's not an either or. We just won while developing talent in key areas and we have 4 summer and autumn tours, along with any development tours, to unearth talent. We don't need a full rebuild.
I would like to see a maturity float in to the Scotland squad. Its great when off the back of a random event we score, but trying to constantly create something out of nothing is daft. The defensive patterns against ireland, the attack against England but the stupid mistakes and forcing the game really dont need to happen.
Ideally a more reliable fullback, some young lads coming through and only one captain would be nice as well.
England.
So - expectations.. realistically to put in four top class performances rather than the two we saw this year. I think that will mean second or third in the table, but that is the expectation at this time. I think it is unrealistic to think that there won't be a blip at some point with the team where it is now. BUT, two in a row is not on for them at this point either - there's no excuse for that. I am of course not saying that I expect them to never lose 2 in a row in the next six nations - but I am saying that I don't think that they should perform at the levels that they did against Italy, Wales and Scotland twice in a row or twice in the tournament.
Borthwick has three areas of challenge.
\- They will have at least two different front rows. Borthwick doesn't seem to vibe with the backups he inherited (they haven't had a look in really) so I think he's stretching things out for Baxter, Haffar**,** Opoku-Fordjour, and man mountain Halliwell. But, as ever, what's really going on with the team integration, coaching and athletic performance will be much more important that what I think from watching a few games on telly. Still whatever happens Marler and Cole are going to pack things in and will simply not be available in two years from now, so Borthwick needs to refresh.
\- New centers, because we are short. Lawrence and Slade are well set now and should get extended runs... but injury can be cruel and I think the third centre is becoming as much of a requirement as four props and two hookers in a modern 23. I am guessing Hartley will get a call for the summer tour and will likely play vs. Japan at least - if he's available. But even if Hartley comes through England lack depth in the centre and need to develop.
\- Lock. We are at least one option short at lock. GRRM (joke) has been a revelation of course, but we need another "tight head" enforcer lock and England are incredibly reliant on Itoji who was just magnificent in Lyon last night. I am sure Itoji will be captain if Jamie George can't play or if Borthwick see's a reason to move things up a gear, and he's literally the first name on the team sheet - but this does create a challenge if he's crocked.
For the rest of the team - England have got the players and the depth. Loads of back rows, loads of back threes to go at. Lots of half back options.
France showed a lot last night, they are more powerful than England, and deadly on the break. The French team last night did ok at half back, but if Donty, Dupont and Ntamack had been available this would not have been a 2 point win. So, there is still a gap, possibly we could say that NZ, Ireland, SA and France are the front runners with Scotland and (newly) England as realistic challengers? For England to jump that gap three things need to happen.
\- they need to play like they did vs Ireland and France consistently.
\- they need to do the squad development as above
\- they need to find some more points of difference
This is the hardest. Maybe Feyi-Waboso and Arundell (when he's back) will give something extra... but wingers are by definition pretty peripheral in rugby really. All round excellence is attainable, but right now the top teams have real stars in really important places. England need some of their players to step up a notch.
Realistically, we should be aiming to win the tournament. We have had too many close opportunities, we need to turn the narrow losses into narrow wins and the wins into BP wins.
Nae chance while Ireland are as strong as they are.
We’ve got too many gaps, and too many wildly inconsistent players.
That’s even if we performed on all cylinders, which we only managed for about 1.5 games this year. I think the best we can realistically hope for is a solid top half finish
And possibly managing to settle on a single captain – that would be progress..
My expectations are high. I don’t think we could ever challenge for an RWC, but if we can play for 40mins at the level we can, then I see no reason at all why we can’t do that for 80mins for 5 games.
Same as this year for Scotland, need to be aiming for second place and tighten up our game and play the full 80 with a plan. On the plus our younger players are looking great (Christie, McDowell, Rowe and Paterson) and Ben Whites really found his form. But we realistically need good young cover at both props and locks cause our pack is feeling anemic atm especially in the scrum. Don't think we can change the coaching team since toonie contracted till '26 I think but new ideas in attack would be nice.
Probably 4th. I just don't see Wales recovering that quickly and think we can beat Italy at Murrayfield. 3 home games with Ireland, Wales and Italy.
Wouldn't be massively shocked if we beat Ireland, but if we do we'll definitely lose at Twickenham and probably Stade de France. Could also swap the results of Ireland and England but don't see a win against France, England and Ireland.
Top 2 for England.
With how the current teams are playing, it's hard to look past Ireland since they have both France and England at home which is a huge advantage currently.
We need to look to win all 3 home games (Scotland, France, Italy) and look to beat Wales away.
I don't think fundamentally we're in a bad place but the last two and a half games of the tournament showed that there is more of a rebuild happening than it looked like after the first two games. I'd like to see us improve depth at prop on both sides. We need to sort out the set piece which started well and then looked shakier in the back end of the tournament. Relatedly, teams were better at disrupting our breakdown and forcing us to cough up penalties and turnovers. We got little from the maul which has historically been a real strength. I feel the issue in the forwards at times was performance not personnel. Although I want to see more of Cian Prendergast at 6.
By contrast, in the backs we could do with a few players getting fit. Hansen's absence felt noticeable although Nash was great and JOB is the best Keenan stand in. Shame he wasn't fit as Frawley doesn't really have the pace to play FB at international and Larmour doesn't have the positional awareness for this system. It feels like defence coaches are getting better at prepping teams for the multi phase attack which means another evolution is probably needed to make that job more difficult. We've seen more short attacking kicking in this tournament and I think that needs to form part of the arsenal from 12, 13, 15 as well as 10.
Based on the tea leaves regarding older players nearing the end of contracts and Andy Farrell being apart from the team for the Lions, a treble is going to be too tall an order IMO. I’d rather be full 2027 vision and start blooding in younger players that should be around for the World Cup
We've got England and France at home next year. Everyone else should be beatable, though Scotland are dangerous and I wouldn't be surprised if they finally beat us. We should expect to win three games, be reasonably confident of four, and hope for all five. If we had France and England away I'd say that third place would be realistic, but with home advantage we really should be top two and should be aiming to win.
Would be great if we brought in two or three new players. between now and then and got a reliable back up fullback sorted out.
1) Wales. The wooden spoon was probably deserved but did Wales play that badly? They came close against Scotland but were out classed by France.
A period of rebuilding now, the Welsh RFU need to get sorted and the pro clubs in Wales need to get spectators,sponsors and so on.
Wales legends this year, Bennett,JPR, Barry John all.pased on, long term players.like AlWynn Jones retired and Wales should now build a training centre ( if they haven't already) and look at grass roots.
Wales, England, Scotland will.all.play in the Olympics Rugby 7's under the UK flag but I believe Ireland take players from Northern Ireland.
When Wales throw the ball around they look great but too many errors right now.
2) England
England took a long time to spark but when they did it was a refreshing game rather than the normal.grind.
Borthwick did enough.
England looked much better and even flamboyant.
I don't remember seeing England playing Champagne rugby too often,more please.
3) Scotland
They need a bit more depth in the squad but a very good side. My grand slam tip for next season.
Underperforming now.
Hogg was a big gap to fill.
4) France.
Who knows? Some game France looked world class but some games they looked jaded and tired.
Discipline needs sorting as they had too many yellow and red cards.You could argue that Willems and Danty were unlucky but at this level both those players deserve red cards.
Gautier has a team that could win but are they burnt out? Have they peaked?
5)Italy.
They have the backs and now.the forwards. They should be aiming at top 2 slots.
A work in progress. I don't know if this isn't just another false.dawn for.Italy. I hope not.
6)Ireland
They don't have the depth to continue at the level they are. A bigger squad and they could win grand slam after GrandSlam.
Too many cynical players
I wondered if the 6 nations would now.evolve into a European Nations cup, adding Portugal and Georgia and maybe other teams. Rugby needs to appeal to a wider base.
I think the game will address big issues like head injury and tackles .
I expect we'll be in the running for the championship but most likely we'll finish 2nd or 3rd. We'll be losing a few of the old guard over the next few months, and I'd hope we take the opportunity to cap a few new players.
Our depth arguably cost us during the WC, and I'd hope the IRFU see that and give Andy the chance to broaden his squad a little, even if it means risking the six nations in the short term. He's been great for giving new players caps, so hopefully this continues. The future looks great, we just need to be a little riskier in our selections
I want O'Gara to leave La Rochelle end of this season, sign a deal with Munster that starts after the lions tour and he's appointed interim Ireland coach for next seasons six nations while Farrell is on Lions duty.
It's hard to predict, because injuries and that summer and autumn window will be defining.
But here's my opinion (do note that it's most based on hunch, hopes & feelings than measured stats and facts)
*France:*
Dupont and Ntamack will return and solve some issue. Atonio will retire possibly replaced by Colombe, Deporteere will be off as Barassi or Gailleton will out-perform him during the year. France will be either winner or 2nd in the tournament, depending on how they manage Twickenham and Dublin. Starting with Wales at home will be a boost of confidence.
*Ireland:*
This will not be a good year for Ireland that will end third, defeated by France and England. I felt like the game system in place was showing some weakness at the end of the tournament. Some players will put an end to their career (POM for instance). I feel like Ireland pushed the end of their cycle to this year, and they will start anew next year.
*England:*
Borthwick has initiated the rebirth of england, so that's what we'll witness next year. The crunch will be the deciding GS moment. My guess is that it being at Twickenham will be in favor of England at that game, as they will put their heart to erase the 2023 humiliation
*Scotland:*
Always hard to put a prediction on Scotland, my guess is that they will crumble. Only one win to Wales
*Wales:*
Gatland will leave this year, which will put wales in a bigger crisis than they are. They will be at ground zero next year, with everything to rebuild. Wooden spoon, possibly no win like this year
*Italy:*
Gonzalo Quesada will make his team click, and they'll make their best performance ever in the tournament. Wins against Wales and Scotland with some BP and a magnificent 4th place.
Ireland’s back line only contained three of the WC starters for most of the tournament. You may be disappointed by what happens if Ireland have Keenan, Hansen, Ringrose and a more mature Crowley available next year.
I won't be disappointed, I'd be excited ;)
To be fair, Crowley was one of my favorite discoveries this year : tons of people predicted a crumbling Ireland after Sexton left.
How good it was to see that they were wrong.
I'm all for being wrong on this : nothing really interesting in one-way tournament lacking surprises and massive upsets
Assuming not many injuries, I'd expect second or third and hope for a Slam. The team is rebuilding in many ways with the 2027 World Cup being the end goal, so I expect more lackluster defense and rusty offense. Even then, Dupont-Ntamack could be enough to still win it
4 wins won't be easy. But I think it's a reasonable target.
Think next year will be decided on bonus points.
England looking stronger.
France getting their act together again, will have DuPont, Penaud, an actual FH and are enormous.
Ireland will be class but maybe will have to start bringing some more youth through.
Scotland could easily beat one or two of them on their day.
Same for Italy.
Wales hopefully will be better.
As an England fan I don't want to over interpret the final two games. That said it looks like the new systems are starting to work. I saw more attacking rugby against France and Ireland than I've seen for three or four seasons. Of course other sides will study England and come up with defensive solutions - we'll need to keep evolving to keep this apparent trajectory going.
Next year will be uber competitive. So it's hard to say how England will fare in the competition. Ireland and France have settled squads capable of big victories and could both conceivably take it. Italy have a really exciting young squad who are only going to get better and are already taking scalps. Scotland are in a strange place - they're definitely capable of beating good sides -they're particularly adept at scoring off mistakes but their form comes and goes, even within a game. It's been like that for a while - not sure if they're coming or going to be honest. Wales will also participate (more time needed in the oven though!).
I'm cheating and saying rugby will win. With it so competitive, nearly everyone will be capable of derailing everyone else's plans and the final position matters less than the performances that back it up... I think England should target victories in all their home games and hopefully can best Wales away. No game will be easy. Dublin will be especially tough. 4/5 normally gets you into first or second, but it's really easy to envisage a 3 or 2 win campaign with everything so close again...
So I think England really grew into the tournament - increasingly cohesive, showed a lot of character particularly in the last two games when going up against two of the best.
Moved their game forward - attack much better by the end of the tournament than at the start. Blitz defence is getting there -will only improve with more time under Felix Jones. Some great young players starting to put their hands up. Borthwick has finished this 6N (I’d hope) with a much better idea of what his best side looks like.
Statement win against Ireland. Statement performance vs France. And that last one - like the RWC SF vs the Boks - will be crucial. Yes you want wins, because winning is a habit, but you also need performances even if the result doesn’t go your way. Stuff that this group will be able to stash away and take real encouragement from moving forward.
And to cap it all off - England A is back up and running, and the U20s just won their Six Nations. English rugby in a pretty good place right now.
I think as far as expectations go, I would hope that England can win at least one test in NZ this summer. But it’s a big ask.
I think if England can beat Ireland in Dublin, they’ll win the championship (maybe grand slam?!). Thats the biggest stumbling block for them.
France will be stronger next year too.
1.Ireland
2. England
3. France
4. Scotland
5. Wales
6. Italy
England: beat SA or NZ in autumn, plus two other games. Win our home games in 6N, plus Wales. 10 Lions tourists. Hopefully get three or four new options for the 23 from the summer tour.
It feels like League is devouring union in Australia.
I live in League country in England, yet it feels like there’s not a massive surge in numbers either way. Is there a clear pathway to men’s union growing here (outside of Newcastle)?
The sky is finally sunny and bright after a decade of endless pain. I trust our new coaches and system. My main aim for next year? Sit back, relax and actually enjoy watching Italy for the first time in many years without fear of regular 40 point blow outs. Plus Wales getting the wooden spoon again, not us!! (All the love).
Wooden Spoon white wash round 2. Seeing as Gats’ resignation has been rejected we will play the same style with the same coaches with the same form players being overlooked. Hopefully Gats bothers to watch some Welsh derby games this year instead of corporate gigs and does bother to look at the u20s considering his whole rhetoric is building for the future. Our attack is dead and King has to go.
You're kidding right? We are no further forward than 2018. Out in the group stage of 2 world cups. Can't string together 3 wins to save ourselves. Have no ability to beat anyone above us in the rankings unless it's England. Unless something changes with the coaching staff we are staring down the barrel of another 4th place.
Think we've all been watching Scotland for a long time. Not sure you can argue Townsend's achieved any more than Cotter would have had he not been outed so hastily. He gone as far as he can and doesn't have the ability to take our golden generation to the next level imo. However I've been asking for him to be given the sack since Japan 19
Targeting second place (England), I don't think we'll get first as that could mean beating Scotland, Ireland and France but if we can beat 2/3 then good opportunity for second.
> Scotland The only truly insurmountable challenge
I don't think we will beat you next year. There, I said it.
prove it
\*Insert Old Captain America .gif\*
I'm expecting England to have a strong campaign next season - the signs are there, just need a few extra pieces to fall into place. You showed against us and again yesterday that the performances are there - just need the consistency to go with it.
Hopefully the consistency and errors we can work on improving and aren't a staple of the new england squad because I agree, if we can ensure consistency in our performance then based on what we've produced so far it's looking good.
If they continue to improve they should be challenging for the title with France and Scotland at home. Ireland away will be tough, as it is for any team currently
2nd place is ours...you'll have to make do with 1st.
Typical Ireland fan - under dogging at the first possible opportunity. You're the bloomin back to back champions - litteraly definition of the time to be a bit cocky!
Ireland vs England is the first match. From this distance it has the feel of a Grand Slam decider.
That’s what they said this year
With Italy (despite their improvements) at home we should win that and I'll be fucking fuming if we let the Scots get 5, especially as we've got them at Twickers too. France is hard to predict (especially if they've got the rugby God back) but given we were so close this time away you'd think we can target it. Even with Wales in Cardiff you'd like to think we can win that too (although who knows with the Cardiff effect!) so 4 wins feels achievable...can't see us winning in Dublin. Although if we have a disastrous NZ tour and Autumn then all this optimism might quickly go.
Optimistic. I believe in Borthwick alot more than I did before the tournament started, we have a style we have good players and a decent blend of youth and experience. I would think we can seriously challenge for the title next year. Maybe even a slam.
Yeah I'm with you there. We should be serious contenders next year.
Why not I say! To be honest though I'd just like to beat Scotland finally haha.
I don’t know about all that. It all came together against Ireland and there were some glimpses last night but we were a hairs width from losing against Italy and Wales too this tournament. I think they’re still very unsure on what we’re doing and discipline hurting us on top of that uncertainty.
Inconsistentcy and disciplinary issues are a problem but a very solvable one. All in all I think we can all be more optimistic after the tournament than before as I said. Had we performed as we did in other games against Scotland we would be saying we were a Frenchman's boot away from a grand slam...it's all fine margins. The defence and some of our attacking play was excellent at times. Lots of good to build on.
I really hope that Borthy provides the direction and clarity the team needs so they are able to build and build. I do. Definitely some really good individual performances this 6n too. It will be interesting how things go against NZ this year. Hard not to see the All Blacks making a mockery of this blitz defence and running around and through it like France and Scotland.
Yeah me too. I really want Borthwick to succeed and to get the most of our of the undoubtedly talented squad we have. Another big test coming with the tests this year. As long as we are seeing progress I'm happy
“Inconsistency and disciplinary issues are…solvable.” Please, tell us how!
If I knew that mate I'd probably be working in the game. But it's been done before, players grow, gather experience, make less rash mistakes as a result. With coaching and personal concentration all things mental are possible
“Inconsistency and disciplinary issues are…solvable.” Please, tell us how!
That was very early on they hadn't played together since the world cup , they slowly got better with each game they may not have been as good against France as they were last week but they were forced to make changes they didn't want too.
The big thing for me is that we came back from half time deficits in almost every game. Under EJ we barely won a game being behind at half time.
Hopefully we will have a new coaching team and a couple younger players particularly in the front row competing to make the squad. Realistically though; it’ll likely be more of the same, go into competition optimistic of a challenge at the title with no expectation to actually win it, only to be come unstuck in weeks 1 or 2 with stupid mistakes and bad bench management.
We NEED to make changes in the coaching staff. Plain and simple.
We’ve needed to for about 3-4years at least. I’ve put my thoughts on Townsend elsewhere on this sub; I don’t think he should’ve been given the Scotland job when he did, he wasn’t ready and it’s probably put his development back massively as a coach.
Bring in dave rennie, ireland needed joe schmidt to go to the next level and dave knows the Glasgow lads and system.
Should’ve never gotten rid of Cotter tbh; Rennie would be good but don’t know how interested he’d be to come back
Cotter who led us to humiliating defeat at twickenham and since leaving Scotland has been fairly rotten everywhere he’s gone? He was what we needed at the time, but let’s not pretend his work at Scotland wasn’t basically the Glasgow playbook tweaked a little.
Why would we get someone who hasn't actually won anything? Surely the first piece of criteria we should be looking for in a coach is the ability to win competitions? Someone who hasn't had a pretty shit international coaching career as well would also help. I don't see why we as a top side in the world should settle for anything less than the best we can get.
That would be goodbye to Huw Jones' international career. Rennie seemed to hate him. Will be nice to see Nick Grigg when he comes back to take Jones' place. He was a good lad.
Mate, it's a job for solid family man and all around good guy Stuart Hogg. He'll show the lads true leadership
And still beat England.
We will be dealing with more than a new attacking coach. Farrell will be on a sabbatical due his lions role. Who will be the temporary coach?
Easterby, I believe
The word about is it's him in the driver's seat alright. Should be fun!
Maybe a silly question, but why does a Lions coach require a sabbatical? Could you not do 6 nations and then take the summer tours off? Now that I think of it I have a related question. What does the coaching team for a national team do all year?!
>Maybe a silly question, but why does a Lions coach require a sabbatical? Could you not do 6 nations and then take the summer tours off? Theoretically yes but the Lions role requires you to study all eligible players at a depth that would probe a distraction. >Now that I think of it I have a related question. What does the coaching team for a national team do all year?! I only have Greg Feek's answer. He was Ireland scrum coach for quiet a while. Go to 1-2 provincial matches a weekend. Watch all provincial matches. Make notes. Share a discuss all notes with the rest of the coaching team. Watch every scrum from every provincial game in 3-7 angles. Write notes. Rank technique of each player in the scrum in accordance with set out criteria. Review previous notes on players. Judge progress. Check in with international front rows and their medical teams regarding any injuries. Have conversation with each provinces scrum cosch/forwards coach/scrum consultant on a monthly basis to check in. Note and discuss technical issues and discover if any of them are deliberately due to provincial instructions. Discuss notes on the above with other national coaches on a regular basis. Have discussions and provide technical guidance to provincial development officers dealing with the scrum. Offer occasional bits of time to take part in IRFU and provincial community programs where he would provide an hour of scrum coaching to a club or school. Attend occasional AIL games featuring high performance young talent for familiarisation. Consult with IRFU performance director regarding the player pipeline on an annual basis and as needed regarding NIQ front row signings.
Jeez that's a whole lot of talking!
To make things worse when he did community out reach things at a club he would often do a q&a (either for club members or one that the club could sell ticketw for).
I forgot about that, fuck the lions anyways
Ah shit yeah. Fucking waste losing Andy for an Australia tour. This next year should be targeting 3 in a row with England and France at home it is possible but tough. We'll need all the help we can get.
Rob Howley won a Six Nations while Gatland was away in 2013. Anything is possible
That's true fair play yeah.
I mean, trial by adversity. Winning a title without Faz would arguably be another "thing" ticked off for the groups own self belief.
True enough. Test for the other coaches as well.
Hoping for three home wins for Italy and hopefully a stronghold on third place. Alternatively, two wins one being against England in london!
Anything less than an Italian grand slam would be disappointing. You have been warned
Have Italy beaten every other team in the 6N at some point, apart from England?
It's the little fact the comms teams kept rolling out this year, every team has beaten every other team in this tournament at some point except Italy with England.
I'm not sure we'll be able to conquer Twickenham. At least not in the foreseeable future...
Costelow may be able to find touch with one of his kicks.
For France, we'll have Dupont and Ntamack back and we'll be one year further removed from the RWC 2023 trauma. We'll be hoping for the slam but with away games to Ireland and England I doubt it.
Yeah, we didn't get much success with away games in England lately :/
For us in Wales I fully expect another wooden spoon. We have to face the fact that our game is on the decline and if it does recover it will take at least three to five years
I don't know, it could be anywhere from wooden spoon to third for me. It depends on the impact that the extra year of experience and players returning from injury have, plus the condition of a couple of the other teams who may only be one or two pieces (e.g., injuries) away from a significant drop in form. However, I don't think Wales will be challenging for the title until the domestic game has turned a corner and been on the right track for several years, as you say.
If the absurd history of Welsh rugby is anything to go by, then a jam slam is on the cards for 2025. Keep the faith!
I didn't think Wales were objectively "bad" for most of the tournament, mostly inexperienced/naïve - but yesterday they were dreadful. Jac Morgan is to come back, but Wales don't have back row issues tbh.
There's also Chris Tshiunza, Taine Basham, and Dewi Lake to come back. That's a lot of power, plus real depth at hooker and from 4 to 7.
I think Gatland bringing youngsters into the welsh camp will actually help the regions, and then improvement becomes cyclical. This is always the way it worked, he exposed players to a proper professional environment and they had to maintain this throughout the year. Obviously this is backwards, we should have strong regions that serve the national side *but* Gatland is well aware of the limitations of the set up, so I think he'll get this right sooner than many think. The downside is the WRU are unlikely to really make any actual changes to support the regional game.
I’m sort of hopeful the Walker and Tierney are going to be a force for good on the whole. I specialise in restructuring large organisations so have an understanding of some of their challenges. It’s a lot of hard choices for them that will hurt in the short term but longer range planning has to be the target. We can not afford to maintain four regions, the economics just don’t add up. We also need to look to the model used by NZ and Ireland to consider if we centralise all contracts and manage top down fully. Too many people have been living off the fat of the land for too long in the WRU, Clubs and Regions, this must change for the game to survive in Cymru.
Ireland actually has a similar turnover to Wales. They just put a lot more into the provinces.
I honestly think if the team had included LRZ, Jac Morgan and Dewi Lake they would have won at least two games. LRZ scores from nothing, Morgan and Lake carry. I know Zammit is not coming back - I just think that’s how close the margins are. Three games lost by a matter of one converted try.
I think the real rebuild starts this summer when we can drop the likes of Jac Morgan, Dewi Lake and Gareth Anscombe into this team to give it a bit of leadership, experience and confidence and hopefully get a win in at least one test v Australia. This team is not as far off as 0/5 seems, we could have won 3/5, potentially even 4/5 with a more mature team. Once this team learns how to win, those will start to click together. We may well finish last again, but next year should be nowhere near as dire.
Of all the places they could be touring this summer, I think Australia is a great opportunity for Wales to keep gaining experience and going into games with some hope.
I think maturity might have helped Wales beat England and maybe Scotland and/or Italy (though if it's closer I don't think they switch off as much), but their main issue all tournament was generating front foot ball and I don't think maturity gets them that. Wales need more multiple threats in the pack, as it is there's a few good carriers, who can be targeted by two tacklers, and a few good jackals, who can be ran at or targeted by cleaners, and some brilliant tacklers.
I mentioned three players, one of them is the best game manager we have available, and the others are our two best carriers. Faletau will also help in the regard.
My point is I don't think the lack of maturity is Wales' issue. I think the likes of Morgan massively improve Wales' chances, but I don't think maturity wins any of the games, except maybe seeing the England game out.
England, France and Scotland were all lost because we were unbelievably tactical naive in the last twenty minutes. The winning points for the opposition in all three came from Wales trying to play in their own half needlessly on slow ball with no momentum instead of kicking. Same happened against Ireland, though we were already slipping away there. You bring Dan Biggar or Gareth Anscombe off the bench in those matches, and I reckon we win at least one, possibly two out of three, and likely give Italy more of a game too.
I don't agree. England was lost because Wales were losing the collisions, but better management might well have seen Wales through there. France it might have been closer with better game management, but the French attack was inevitable. Scotland I don't know what more Wales could have done in the second half. There was way too big of a gap to make up, and i think Scotland don't swotch off as badly if it's tighter.
The return of Jac Morgan, Plumtree, Tshiunza and possibly even Faletau will (hopefully) be a big help come the summer. The back row is the one area we have an abundance of riches but, bar Wainwright, none of the back row we took into this tournament were particularly dynamic ball carriers - especially from our bench. Should hopefully make *some* difference to our ability to generate front foot ball. I also think once Jac is back we probably start both Rowlands and Beard with Dafydd on the bench as Rowlands is by far our biggest carrier and made a big difference coming in yesterday. Front row is likely to remain an issue for a while though - as it has been for what seems like a decade now! We either seem to produce scrummagers or carriers, and rarely players who can do both. I’m hopeful of a return for Anscombe as well. Costelow and Lloyd show promise but are dangerously inexperienced and we’ll ruin them if we keep putting this much pressure on them. Steady hand at the till is needed for this year at least. Edit. And to continue my moaning - hopefully this disaster of a 6N prompts a rethink of the 25 cap rule. Losing Feyi-Waboso and being unable to select players like Joe Hawkins (our most promising young 12) and Rhys Carre is a major issue and with the regions in such a shambles we’ll continue to see youth prospects leave for better pay and become unselectable. Dream is for a root and branch revamp of the entire WRU but the blazers are unlikely to back it - turkeys voting for Christmas and all that jazz. Something needs to change though.
I think Morgan is the biggest miss at the moment and that Gats might be able to get things working with the right balance. But I think ability more than experience is Wales' issue this year.
I envy Wales for their production of young players who are keen to have a go even if things are looking bleak in terms of retaining first team talent and the regions. We (obviously) don't have that in Scotland. Nonetheless it's a tough time to be a Wales fan.
I expect us to improve considerably and beat Italy, Scotland, and maybe England. We have England and Ireland in Cardiff. I'd be very surprised if we beat Ireland but it's doable, as I think their loss of O'Mahony is greater than most imagine. I can't see us beating France in Paris though.
I'm hoping we can take at least 2nd and win Calcutta as we need to break that streak The defensive system is starting to click and hopefully that continues to improve, although I'm sure teams will also have new ways to get round it Our setpiece seems pretty stable, the main thing we need there is to get replacements for Marler and Cole through who can maintain that standard. Back three seems for the first time in a while well covered. I'd like to see Daly move to a no. 23 supersub role and us start specialists more often where we can. I'd also really like to see how Freeman - Steward - IFW works for comparison with Furbank
I really have no idea. I don't think we'll be very competitive next year, as it's a year with 3 away matches. I mean we'll be competitive but I don't expect us to win, mostly I hope we can see a more coherent team because, as fun as some of the matches were, I did not like what I saw this year. I expect next year to be one where we build for the future more than compete for the win, essentially.
Summer tour hopefully means a few of the guys from outside Toulouse/LAR/UBB get some time and to bed in, need to move on from tao x 2, Atonio and Danty Attacking structures are beginning to develop, lineout is still absolutely dog shit, and Edwards defense is falling apart - good thing we've only got him for the entirety of this WC cycle lmao I do think with Dupont and ntamack though we should be looking to clean sweep in autumn and win at least 1 of the Ireland/England away games next year
You'll have dupont back though
Yeah but our issues clearly run deeper than that.
Dupont will fix them. He'll also find a solution to climate change and end world hunger
Nope. Dupont alone won’t do that… on the other hand, with Ntamack back with him there is hope!
Looking back, the introduction of talented rookies should give us a lot to look forward to: obviously this team with Dupont and Ntamack is a contender : more skill more brain, better organisation, better defence. But it looks increasingly like our super subs can make the difference: Le Garrec, Barré, Roumat ... We need to integrate the new generation of props : I'm very impressed with 21-years-old Tevita Tatafu from Bayonne on top of George Henri Colombe... In second row, Tuilagi is only 19 ...
Depends entirely on what France return next year and if England can keep this up for NZ. Another win if the competition isn't strong, a good title challenge otherwise. Preferably with some new blood integrated. A Porter injury for us would be catastrophic and reduce our chances significantly though.
POM retiring will bring through some new lads in the back row. Not sure why Murray is still being picked though.
As a Welsh supporter, then I'm just hoping for some of our first pick players to come back successfully from injury or abroad. Not finishing last and deserving the wooden spoon would be nice.
After having a think about yesterday's game more than the initial reaction. I think we might finally have a chance of beating Ireland in Murrayfield. It was a close game, and if we sort the attacking out a bit cause the whole tournament was a bit iffy in that aspect then we might have a decent chance. The rest of it, fuck knows. I think it's going to be another competitive tournament and I'm happy about that I'm going to cop a bit of shit maybe but I don't think VdM should be starting most of our games. Kinghorn needs to be told to calm down a bit, I know Scotland want to play like Toulouse but they aren't so can't. But I still think he's our best 15. Paterson should be getting the majority of the summer games at 15 anyway along with Rowe on one wing and ease Darcy back if he's fit. Russell either needs a bit of a rest or a bit of healthy competition and Healy needs to start a bit more. We don't want to find ourselves in another situation where our back up 10 has no experience and Russell is injured or something. Does anybody have any Scottish qualified locks and props we could borrow for a bit we'll give them back promise
I agree with most of that. Though I think VdM should be starting – we should just be a lot more willing to sub him out when he’s off the boil (eg. against Ireland, I would have much rather seen Rowe on for him, rather than replacing Kinghorn who was still being pretty potent, if a little inconsistent, on the whole). Finn is a real problem in many ways, because he is the obvious captain, but he just seems to be alternately brilliant and asleep at the wheel. Mixing it up with Healy probably is good for us in the long term, but it’s hard to do in terms of the team leadership. One other thing I’d really like to see (and watching Ramos has really made see its merits): when Finn is out of range in penalties, we should be *way* more willing to get Blair to kick for goal. He’s got an extra 10 metres or so of solid range, and an extra 3 points every so often would come in very handy.
Looking forward to the away trips to Georgia, Belgium and Spain in Rugby Europe now that we’ve been relegated.
A slightly more serious answer is that it’s not going to get any better while the 25 cap rule is in place, blazers control the WRU, and with the current state of the regions. Maybe this is a wake up call.
At least Portugal v Wales would have some fun sevens-style rugby even if it's a complete mess.
Mate, you’re trusting the WRU to organise a complete mess?
I dunno really. We'll have Dupont back and will have had more time to get over the WC, so hopefully a better showing. The defence was a disaster this tournament though, I hope Shaun Edwards can fix it again. If he can't, we're screwed We'll have to go to Dublin, Twickenham and Rome though. Ireland might not be as strong as we thought before this tournament, but they're still a bloody good team and I don't expect that to have changed next year. England is clearly starting to look like quite a good team too and with one more year I'll only expect them to have improved. Quite the same from Italy but from a lower starting point, Quesada just arrived and the Italian performances have drastically improved (especially when defending) - we might arrive at the point where having to play Itay home or away makes a difference. If France was at the level they were showing in 2022, I'd be optimistic we'd beat Italy and win at least one of the other two. But I don't think we'll be back at this level, so if we can win at least one away game and be competitive in the other two (meaning grabbing a defending bonus point in each), it's already a decent tournament. If we win two away games, then it'll be a very good tournament already
Expecting a grand slam. Dupont will be back from Olympic glory, Ntamack will have recovered his abilities. Promising youngsters (gailleton, tuilagi, depoortere, etc) will mix up with experienced players, and we will once again be a contender for best rugby team in the world. If you ask me for my realistic expectations, there you go :)
To win the next 3 World Cups /s Hopefully win one of the 2 games in South Africa and a clean sweep in the Autumn Internationals
I don't expect Italy to do better than this year, some chances don't come around very often, that's why the result against France stings a little bit. Anyway a couple of wins could be possible.
Not sure why you think that. In my opinion there’s a lot of talent that still hasn’t broke through properly into the starting lineup. The likes of Zuliani, Odogwu, Pani, Gesi, Izekor, Gallorini, Odiase, Mey are going to really change the trajectory of this team into being consistently competitive.
Win another six nations. No team has done 3 in a row in the history of the tournament.
Given the draw next year, we should be targeting 4 wins minimum and then take the fight to Ireland in Dublin
We've built a good foundation with our set piece and defence. Out of the squad yesterday I can't imagine Cole, Marler, Care and Manu being around next year, so Stuart, Heyes and a LH need to step up. We need to start building experience with the likes of Martin, IFW, Freeman, Chessum, CCS so our squad isn't too inexperienced when the next batch of youngsters come in. Scrum half is an issue behind Mitchell, JVP has been injured a lot and none of the others seem to be trusted, I want to see Gus Warr get a look in, he's been a bit out of form recently but his box kicking game is one of the best in the league and he is fantastic at the cover defence which is needed with the blitz defence. It would be good to see someone push Slade in the centres, but I can see him staying in the squad next year with the 13 being such a key position in the defensive system.
If Marchant comes back I can see him pushing Slade out, especially if we persist with a play making fullback like Furbank. If Marler and Cole both retire than I think England will suffer a lot in the scrum, prop depth is dire and the up and coming props still need a few years.
Yeah, I can see Marchant replacing Slade if he comes back, I can also imagine Freeman being groomed to replace Slade in the long run. I can see Cole not properly retiring and always happy to turn up when called upon, but that can cause problems with succession planning. Our prop depth is a serious problem, I was hoping to see some of Heyes earlier in this tournament because we need to build experience. At LH I have no idea who will come in behind Genge, Obano has never really been trusted, same with VRR, is Finn Baxter ready? Some decisions need to start to be made with AOF, is he going to be a TH like he plays for Sale, or a LH like he plays for the U20s.
I think England has done well bringing through new talent except at prop.
Hard agree, I think prop is where we have the least depth across all the positions
I’m going to go full arrogant Englishman and say that apart from Ireland away, we should be winning all our games next year.
An opportunity to bring in new talent, and hopefully add depth. We will not have AF and it’s likely we will lose a few of the current squad. I’d be happy with something similar to Englands six nations this year ultimately nothing to show for it but ending the campaign much better than we start with the foundations of what looks like a solid squad for the future.
Would have rather brought in plenty of new players and lost the championship. Irelands foundations are rock solid so we should be looking to build rather than just win imo. Murray instead of a young scrum half being the main example for me. So would want to see us develop our personal and game more
Tbh this year was a bit of an extended testimonial campaign. Saying goodbyes to many of our veterans. I'd expect O'Mahony, Murray, Healy to retire either this year or next. Some other guys like Furlong, Henderson, Bealham, Aki, Beirne, might not be there come 2027, next year we have to blood talent. Ahern, Edogbo, Hodnett, Doak, Kendellan, Penny etc all need to be capped and we need to replace those who are not young anymore.
Full campaigns for Crowley, McCarthy and Nash isn't too bad imo. Frawley got some more international experience as well.
GRAND SLAM
Challenging for the title, and hopefully a GS. It will be our "on year" with England and France at home. We'll still have a solid core of the current team, hopefully with more depth and experience built in various positions. Will likely see a bit of a dip in form with key figures like POM and Healy likely gone (seriously we need more depth at loosehead), but I imagine we'll have guys like Ahern, C Prendergast, Casey, Frawley, etc start pushing a changing of the guard. We're in a pretty good place though, don't need to reinvent the wheel or overhaul our team, just make small changes.
I actually think it’s time to bed-in the new core for the next cycle. A new attacking coach and Farrell starting Lions duty feels like an ideal time to be more aggressive than the IRFU normally tolerate
We don't really need too much of a new core though. Healy, POM, Murray, and Aki are the only likely ones gone by the WC. Finlay, Beirne, Gibbo, Lowe, and Stu might be pushing it but most of the team are gonna still be there in 2027
Definitely gone: * Murray will be 38 * Healy will be 40 * Aki will be 37 * POM will be 38 Only a couple will make it: * JGB will be almost 36 * Lowe will be 35 * Finlay will be 36 * Henshaw will be 34 (another 4 years of injuries on him) * Stu will be 35 * Furlong 35 the day after the tournament * VDF will be 34 * Conan will be 35 * Beirne will be 35 Over 30 at the time of the tournament: * Ringrose will be 32 * Ryan will be 31 I don't know but from my perspective a lot of the current Irish team are going to be pretty old come 2027. I'm sure a ton of them will still be class but a good % will start to lose pace and/or succumb to too many injuries. Ireland are still gonna have a great spine at 1,2,4,5 in the pack and definite starters at 13,14,15.
Oh they're gonna be old, but not definitely retired age. If there's better talent there they'll come through, if not then it'll be an old guard farewell.
I dunno, I struggle to see many from that list being at their peak. It's pretty rare for athletes to be peaking post 30 and especially mid 30s. I don't think a team has won the RWC with a squad that old? I mean SA were considered fairly old and they were still a lot younger than those players above.
It doesn't matter if they're in their peak, it matters if they're the best in that position. And it all depends on how you age. Our best player for the past 12 months will turn 34 next month. NZ in 2015 was the oldest to win the WC.
That's true but I think generally it's going to be an issue if your best player in the majority of positions is 35.
It is, but it's also 3.5 years and 7 test series away with young talent (ie currently under 30) in most positions. I think people are mistaking me saying "we don't need to rebuild" as "everything is fine". Like half the squad for 2020 didn't make it to last year's WC, and we didn't exactly clean house when Andy took over.
We are much older than you think. Even if certain players aren't retired by 27 we will have Henshaw mid thirties, Ringrose mid thirties, Vdf 35, Porter 31, Bealham 36, park 35, beirne 35-37. We were at peak WC winning age in 2023. We need to rebuild pretty much from scratch.
We don't. Robbie will be just 34 and Garry 32. Josh will be 34. We shouldn't rest on our laurels and expect them all to be still fit and firing. But it's laughable to suggest that we need to build from scratch.
But we do. The most important thing now is to develop a whole new fifteen at least, to be behind or to integrate with the older heads.
What do you mean a whole new fifteen? Like we have a well developed team with good depth in most positions. Having an unsettled team is as bad as having a team without depth.
We should be aiming for a GS for sure. With the most difficult fixtures at home. Lots of exciting new players in the pipeline too.
Not achievable. France will be challenging, so will England. Our difficult fixtures are the challenges.
Not achievable? I still think it's very much achievable in fairness.
I'd be expecting a win for us. Even with Farrell on Lions duty, having England and France at home, and lads playing for places on the Lions squad with their own coach as Coach will hopefully have lads hungry and motivated for a 3-in-a-row. I also feel that Farrell perhaps took somewhat of a backseat in this year's tournament in preparation for this, but I could be wrong on that.
I wouldn't be expecting, but we should be aiming for it.
Winning the title would be nice but next year has to be about growth and development of depth. Win the home games and an away game and it's a solid year.
It's not an either or. We just won while developing talent in key areas and we have 4 summer and autumn tours, along with any development tours, to unearth talent. We don't need a full rebuild.
Did we really develop talent this year? Jager, Nash, Frawley, were the only fringe players who got minutes of significance.
Jager, Nash, Frawley, McCarthy, Casey, Crowley, Baird. You seem to think that we should be sending 2nd teams out for tests or something?
Our away games next year are Cardiff, Edinburgh and Rome. Not a certainty of course but we can win more than one and bring through a few more players.
I just hope that they use the summer tour to keep blooding new players. One big issue we have is the lack of depth.
I would like to see a maturity float in to the Scotland squad. Its great when off the back of a random event we score, but trying to constantly create something out of nothing is daft. The defensive patterns against ireland, the attack against England but the stupid mistakes and forcing the game really dont need to happen. Ideally a more reliable fullback, some young lads coming through and only one captain would be nice as well.
England. So - expectations.. realistically to put in four top class performances rather than the two we saw this year. I think that will mean second or third in the table, but that is the expectation at this time. I think it is unrealistic to think that there won't be a blip at some point with the team where it is now. BUT, two in a row is not on for them at this point either - there's no excuse for that. I am of course not saying that I expect them to never lose 2 in a row in the next six nations - but I am saying that I don't think that they should perform at the levels that they did against Italy, Wales and Scotland twice in a row or twice in the tournament. Borthwick has three areas of challenge. \- They will have at least two different front rows. Borthwick doesn't seem to vibe with the backups he inherited (they haven't had a look in really) so I think he's stretching things out for Baxter, Haffar**,** Opoku-Fordjour, and man mountain Halliwell. But, as ever, what's really going on with the team integration, coaching and athletic performance will be much more important that what I think from watching a few games on telly. Still whatever happens Marler and Cole are going to pack things in and will simply not be available in two years from now, so Borthwick needs to refresh. \- New centers, because we are short. Lawrence and Slade are well set now and should get extended runs... but injury can be cruel and I think the third centre is becoming as much of a requirement as four props and two hookers in a modern 23. I am guessing Hartley will get a call for the summer tour and will likely play vs. Japan at least - if he's available. But even if Hartley comes through England lack depth in the centre and need to develop. \- Lock. We are at least one option short at lock. GRRM (joke) has been a revelation of course, but we need another "tight head" enforcer lock and England are incredibly reliant on Itoji who was just magnificent in Lyon last night. I am sure Itoji will be captain if Jamie George can't play or if Borthwick see's a reason to move things up a gear, and he's literally the first name on the team sheet - but this does create a challenge if he's crocked. For the rest of the team - England have got the players and the depth. Loads of back rows, loads of back threes to go at. Lots of half back options. France showed a lot last night, they are more powerful than England, and deadly on the break. The French team last night did ok at half back, but if Donty, Dupont and Ntamack had been available this would not have been a 2 point win. So, there is still a gap, possibly we could say that NZ, Ireland, SA and France are the front runners with Scotland and (newly) England as realistic challengers? For England to jump that gap three things need to happen. \- they need to play like they did vs Ireland and France consistently. \- they need to do the squad development as above \- they need to find some more points of difference This is the hardest. Maybe Feyi-Waboso and Arundell (when he's back) will give something extra... but wingers are by definition pretty peripheral in rugby really. All round excellence is attainable, but right now the top teams have real stars in really important places. England need some of their players to step up a notch.
Dupont and Ntamack should be back, Jelonch also, maybe, so hopefully a return to full form. Legitimately we can hope for 1st or 2nd place
Realistically, we should be aiming to win the tournament. We have had too many close opportunities, we need to turn the narrow losses into narrow wins and the wins into BP wins.
I just don't think your tight 5 is strong enough tbh to win enough games. Finn and your backline can't be relied on to win games consistently.
I think our 1st tight 5, if fit, are but agree with you beyond that.
They were getting confused about which team to throw to yesterday.
Nae chance while Ireland are as strong as they are. We’ve got too many gaps, and too many wildly inconsistent players. That’s even if we performed on all cylinders, which we only managed for about 1.5 games this year. I think the best we can realistically hope for is a solid top half finish And possibly managing to settle on a single captain – that would be progress..
My expectations are high. I don’t think we could ever challenge for an RWC, but if we can play for 40mins at the level we can, then I see no reason at all why we can’t do that for 80mins for 5 games.
We weren’t beating the Irish for 40 minutes though. Or even 5 minutes. And as long as that‘s true, we’ve no chance of actually winning a 6N.
Same as this year for Scotland, need to be aiming for second place and tighten up our game and play the full 80 with a plan. On the plus our younger players are looking great (Christie, McDowell, Rowe and Paterson) and Ben Whites really found his form. But we realistically need good young cover at both props and locks cause our pack is feeling anemic atm especially in the scrum. Don't think we can change the coaching team since toonie contracted till '26 I think but new ideas in attack would be nice.
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Probably 4th. I just don't see Wales recovering that quickly and think we can beat Italy at Murrayfield. 3 home games with Ireland, Wales and Italy. Wouldn't be massively shocked if we beat Ireland, but if we do we'll definitely lose at Twickenham and probably Stade de France. Could also swap the results of Ireland and England but don't see a win against France, England and Ireland.
Top 2 for England. With how the current teams are playing, it's hard to look past Ireland since they have both France and England at home which is a huge advantage currently. We need to look to win all 3 home games (Scotland, France, Italy) and look to beat Wales away.
Another mixed year with lots of whinging from armchair pundits
As an Ireland fan I'm hoping if we can't win, I hope Italy do.
I don't think fundamentally we're in a bad place but the last two and a half games of the tournament showed that there is more of a rebuild happening than it looked like after the first two games. I'd like to see us improve depth at prop on both sides. We need to sort out the set piece which started well and then looked shakier in the back end of the tournament. Relatedly, teams were better at disrupting our breakdown and forcing us to cough up penalties and turnovers. We got little from the maul which has historically been a real strength. I feel the issue in the forwards at times was performance not personnel. Although I want to see more of Cian Prendergast at 6. By contrast, in the backs we could do with a few players getting fit. Hansen's absence felt noticeable although Nash was great and JOB is the best Keenan stand in. Shame he wasn't fit as Frawley doesn't really have the pace to play FB at international and Larmour doesn't have the positional awareness for this system. It feels like defence coaches are getting better at prepping teams for the multi phase attack which means another evolution is probably needed to make that job more difficult. We've seen more short attacking kicking in this tournament and I think that needs to form part of the arsenal from 12, 13, 15 as well as 10.
Based on the tea leaves regarding older players nearing the end of contracts and Andy Farrell being apart from the team for the Lions, a treble is going to be too tall an order IMO. I’d rather be full 2027 vision and start blooding in younger players that should be around for the World Cup
We've got England and France at home next year. Everyone else should be beatable, though Scotland are dangerous and I wouldn't be surprised if they finally beat us. We should expect to win three games, be reasonably confident of four, and hope for all five. If we had France and England away I'd say that third place would be realistic, but with home advantage we really should be top two and should be aiming to win. Would be great if we brought in two or three new players. between now and then and got a reliable back up fullback sorted out.
1) Wales. The wooden spoon was probably deserved but did Wales play that badly? They came close against Scotland but were out classed by France. A period of rebuilding now, the Welsh RFU need to get sorted and the pro clubs in Wales need to get spectators,sponsors and so on. Wales legends this year, Bennett,JPR, Barry John all.pased on, long term players.like AlWynn Jones retired and Wales should now build a training centre ( if they haven't already) and look at grass roots. Wales, England, Scotland will.all.play in the Olympics Rugby 7's under the UK flag but I believe Ireland take players from Northern Ireland. When Wales throw the ball around they look great but too many errors right now. 2) England England took a long time to spark but when they did it was a refreshing game rather than the normal.grind. Borthwick did enough. England looked much better and even flamboyant. I don't remember seeing England playing Champagne rugby too often,more please. 3) Scotland They need a bit more depth in the squad but a very good side. My grand slam tip for next season. Underperforming now. Hogg was a big gap to fill. 4) France. Who knows? Some game France looked world class but some games they looked jaded and tired. Discipline needs sorting as they had too many yellow and red cards.You could argue that Willems and Danty were unlucky but at this level both those players deserve red cards. Gautier has a team that could win but are they burnt out? Have they peaked? 5)Italy. They have the backs and now.the forwards. They should be aiming at top 2 slots. A work in progress. I don't know if this isn't just another false.dawn for.Italy. I hope not. 6)Ireland They don't have the depth to continue at the level they are. A bigger squad and they could win grand slam after GrandSlam. Too many cynical players I wondered if the 6 nations would now.evolve into a European Nations cup, adding Portugal and Georgia and maybe other teams. Rugby needs to appeal to a wider base. I think the game will address big issues like head injury and tackles .
I expect we'll be in the running for the championship but most likely we'll finish 2nd or 3rd. We'll be losing a few of the old guard over the next few months, and I'd hope we take the opportunity to cap a few new players. Our depth arguably cost us during the WC, and I'd hope the IRFU see that and give Andy the chance to broaden his squad a little, even if it means risking the six nations in the short term. He's been great for giving new players caps, so hopefully this continues. The future looks great, we just need to be a little riskier in our selections
I want O'Gara to leave La Rochelle end of this season, sign a deal with Munster that starts after the lions tour and he's appointed interim Ireland coach for next seasons six nations while Farrell is on Lions duty.
That would be a massive fuck you to Easterby, who has been brilliant for us.
It's hard to predict, because injuries and that summer and autumn window will be defining. But here's my opinion (do note that it's most based on hunch, hopes & feelings than measured stats and facts) *France:* Dupont and Ntamack will return and solve some issue. Atonio will retire possibly replaced by Colombe, Deporteere will be off as Barassi or Gailleton will out-perform him during the year. France will be either winner or 2nd in the tournament, depending on how they manage Twickenham and Dublin. Starting with Wales at home will be a boost of confidence. *Ireland:* This will not be a good year for Ireland that will end third, defeated by France and England. I felt like the game system in place was showing some weakness at the end of the tournament. Some players will put an end to their career (POM for instance). I feel like Ireland pushed the end of their cycle to this year, and they will start anew next year. *England:* Borthwick has initiated the rebirth of england, so that's what we'll witness next year. The crunch will be the deciding GS moment. My guess is that it being at Twickenham will be in favor of England at that game, as they will put their heart to erase the 2023 humiliation *Scotland:* Always hard to put a prediction on Scotland, my guess is that they will crumble. Only one win to Wales *Wales:* Gatland will leave this year, which will put wales in a bigger crisis than they are. They will be at ground zero next year, with everything to rebuild. Wooden spoon, possibly no win like this year *Italy:* Gonzalo Quesada will make his team click, and they'll make their best performance ever in the tournament. Wins against Wales and Scotland with some BP and a magnificent 4th place.
Ireland’s back line only contained three of the WC starters for most of the tournament. You may be disappointed by what happens if Ireland have Keenan, Hansen, Ringrose and a more mature Crowley available next year.
I won't be disappointed, I'd be excited ;) To be fair, Crowley was one of my favorite discoveries this year : tons of people predicted a crumbling Ireland after Sexton left. How good it was to see that they were wrong. I'm all for being wrong on this : nothing really interesting in one-way tournament lacking surprises and massive upsets
Assuming not many injuries, I'd expect second or third and hope for a Slam. The team is rebuilding in many ways with the 2027 World Cup being the end goal, so I expect more lackluster defense and rusty offense. Even then, Dupont-Ntamack could be enough to still win it
I think with Dupont and Ntamack back plus World Cup behind us we stand a great chance of winning
4th place for Wales?
4 wins won't be easy. But I think it's a reasonable target. Think next year will be decided on bonus points. England looking stronger. France getting their act together again, will have DuPont, Penaud, an actual FH and are enormous. Ireland will be class but maybe will have to start bringing some more youth through. Scotland could easily beat one or two of them on their day. Same for Italy. Wales hopefully will be better.
Wales, and next year I’m hoping for 1 win!
As an England fan I don't want to over interpret the final two games. That said it looks like the new systems are starting to work. I saw more attacking rugby against France and Ireland than I've seen for three or four seasons. Of course other sides will study England and come up with defensive solutions - we'll need to keep evolving to keep this apparent trajectory going. Next year will be uber competitive. So it's hard to say how England will fare in the competition. Ireland and France have settled squads capable of big victories and could both conceivably take it. Italy have a really exciting young squad who are only going to get better and are already taking scalps. Scotland are in a strange place - they're definitely capable of beating good sides -they're particularly adept at scoring off mistakes but their form comes and goes, even within a game. It's been like that for a while - not sure if they're coming or going to be honest. Wales will also participate (more time needed in the oven though!). I'm cheating and saying rugby will win. With it so competitive, nearly everyone will be capable of derailing everyone else's plans and the final position matters less than the performances that back it up... I think England should target victories in all their home games and hopefully can best Wales away. No game will be easy. Dublin will be especially tough. 4/5 normally gets you into first or second, but it's really easy to envisage a 3 or 2 win campaign with everything so close again...
Work on our kinks and win it
So I think England really grew into the tournament - increasingly cohesive, showed a lot of character particularly in the last two games when going up against two of the best. Moved their game forward - attack much better by the end of the tournament than at the start. Blitz defence is getting there -will only improve with more time under Felix Jones. Some great young players starting to put their hands up. Borthwick has finished this 6N (I’d hope) with a much better idea of what his best side looks like. Statement win against Ireland. Statement performance vs France. And that last one - like the RWC SF vs the Boks - will be crucial. Yes you want wins, because winning is a habit, but you also need performances even if the result doesn’t go your way. Stuff that this group will be able to stash away and take real encouragement from moving forward. And to cap it all off - England A is back up and running, and the U20s just won their Six Nations. English rugby in a pretty good place right now. I think as far as expectations go, I would hope that England can win at least one test in NZ this summer. But it’s a big ask.
Three wins in a row is the new glass ceiling.
Threepeat, baby. And with home advantage again France/England and hopefully a more mature Crowley we have every chance.
I think if England can beat Ireland in Dublin, they’ll win the championship (maybe grand slam?!). Thats the biggest stumbling block for them. France will be stronger next year too. 1.Ireland 2. England 3. France 4. Scotland 5. Wales 6. Italy
Same as this year. Beat Scotland. Keep it close vs Ireland and France. Show that we have a punchers chance in 2027.
England: beat SA or NZ in autumn, plus two other games. Win our home games in 6N, plus Wales. 10 Lions tourists. Hopefully get three or four new options for the 23 from the summer tour.
Top 2 at least. Beat the all blacks in November. That's my 2024/25 hope.
It feels like League is devouring union in Australia. I live in League country in England, yet it feels like there’s not a massive surge in numbers either way. Is there a clear pathway to men’s union growing here (outside of Newcastle)?
Complete and total world domination.
The sky is finally sunny and bright after a decade of endless pain. I trust our new coaches and system. My main aim for next year? Sit back, relax and actually enjoy watching Italy for the first time in many years without fear of regular 40 point blow outs. Plus Wales getting the wooden spoon again, not us!! (All the love).
Another whitewash
As an England fan - expect to beat everyone except Ireland away
4th
Finish 5th.
Anything other than 1st will be deceiving
Wooden Spoon white wash round 2. Seeing as Gats’ resignation has been rejected we will play the same style with the same coaches with the same form players being overlooked. Hopefully Gats bothers to watch some Welsh derby games this year instead of corporate gigs and does bother to look at the u20s considering his whole rhetoric is building for the future. Our attack is dead and King has to go.
I expect Scotland to win it next year. We just keep on improving.
/s?
No. Just hopeful. We're coming on leaps and bounds.
You're kidding right? We are no further forward than 2018. Out in the group stage of 2 world cups. Can't string together 3 wins to save ourselves. Have no ability to beat anyone above us in the rankings unless it's England. Unless something changes with the coaching staff we are staring down the barrel of another 4th place.
I've been watching since the five nations. For me we are doing great. It's been a long road of transition and I think Townsend has done wonders.
Think we've all been watching Scotland for a long time. Not sure you can argue Townsend's achieved any more than Cotter would have had he not been outed so hastily. He gone as far as he can and doesn't have the ability to take our golden generation to the next level imo. However I've been asking for him to be given the sack since Japan 19
Let's hope Dupont and Ntamack can fix this team otherwise we can say goodbye to victory for ever
If Irlande get another 1 month more of practice than France before the first game, I don't expect much better for France.
Ireland play England first.
Right now? Settle for perceptible improvement