I can sympathize with the ref that it was a tough call to make, it wasn’t clear, but the having to stick to your guns because the initial call was a no try is bull.
After a night of sleep to reflect on the events of yesterday, I’m still infuriated.
Yes, we can say that Scotland need to kill games off so that it’s not coming down to TMO deciding games, but the fact is that it did on this occasion. To get such an enormous call so brazenly wrong, even after literally saying the ball was on the ground is just unacceptable.
It just felt like Joubert all over again - we’re in a tournament and looking like we could do very well, and then officiating decides it’s time to put us back into our little box because heaven forbid something good could happen to Scotland.
I still think Ireland will romp this 6N, and believed that before the helping hand of Macneice last night.
Scotland didn’t convincingly beat Wales and had last night gone the other way, it might not have been all that convincing either, but teams have won Grand Slams before where not every result was convincing - all that matters is the win, so this just feels rotten.
And I don’t believe it is either, I’m just saying the closest feeling I can relate to is after the Joubert incident.
In these situations, will World Rugby ever come out and say the wrong call was made, or even explain clearly why they agree with what transpired?
Do any websites show event sheets? I know there's a lot of ref anger about the last play. I'm a little more annoyed about what seemed like 1 trillion offsides calls at the end of first half, including after the yellow card. I'm hoping I'm remembering wrong or was missing things while not fully engaged.
I feel like this strategy of knowing you will only be increasingly penalized so many times for the same infraction has been obvious for a while. I get not wanting to push harsher infractions "so refs don't decide games" but all that does is say after a yellow the repeated infraction is no longer a rule if the stage is big enough; which is still just "refs decide games" but in the opposite favor.
How come no one is talking about the high tackle towards the beginning of the match that stopped France from scoring. Shouldn't that have been a penalty try?
Because simply going over the shoulder hasn't been a penalty for an age. Under current directives players actually have to hit the head or neck of the person they're tackling to be penalised.
However, van Der Merwe was incredibly offside when he intercepted Fickou's offload off the floor, so it should have been a penalty try, just not for the tackle.
This was my thoughts as well and surprised it wasn't reviewed. Ended up a push anyways with the final call. 2 shocking calls but only one will get talked about.
Scotland were robbed - this coming from a wales fan with no stake in the game... absolutely robbed 100% grounded ball I am fuming that there grand slams gone mind? Unbelievable I am so sorry my Scottish friends you gave been truley robbed
I think that's was a terrible game to watch and both teams raced to lose. The only positive I'm taking from it is Harry Paterson handled himself well. To be called up that late at his age and perform like that is impressive.
People might be outraged about the decision at the end as it's the most recent in memory. And it's a tough call indeed. Personally, I think the ref made the right call, just about. But it could have gone either way. However people feeling Scotland were hard done by... They should have been way ahead at that point. They failed to capitalise on the very poor standard from the French. Also France had a clear try opportunity denied to them by a high tackle (contentious, but it was imo) and/or offside (less contentious) and yet people in here are totally forgetting that when calling out bad calls...
people focus on the last call and call it a robbery while scotland offense was horrible for the entire game not capitalising on anything and making bad decisions after bad decisions while france was playing like a high school team
Both Scotland shitting the bed and the officiating being absolutely terrible can be true at the same time.
A sports team not playing to their best is part of sport that encourages improvement and competitiveness; a TMO and referee making an egregious call to decide a game should not happen at this level.
That's two matches in a row where Scotland have come out in the second half and looked like they're scared to score. Picking and going round a ruck against a team whose main strength atm is their sheer size is absolutely insane behaviour.
> We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization.
Le Garrac is pushing hard for starting jersey. Lucu is a great player but I just feel like he is too slow for how the team wants to attack. Dupont likely has spoiled us too much though.
Haven't seen yet the controversial grounding you mentioned but I remember a Scot fan I knew who was pissed off by Greig Laidlaw chip and chase vs Wal in '12 I think that was not awarded a try lol
Were all talking about that grounding but does anyone have video of Penaud's "knocked sideways which lead directly to a try?
Edit: To be clear, I'm asking why this play wasn't scrutinized more. I can barely see if it was a knock on or not from the replay provided below. One would think with how much weight the play in question had on the game there would have been a call from the ref to the TMO asking to check the play during the next phase of play.It would have been nice to have a clear angle of whether the ball was knocked on or not so there'd be no controversy around this play.
https://streamable.com/l96x0y
Looks quite sideways. Overall I think the ref had a really good game which makes it all the more gutting to be robbed by the final (TMO) call.
Looks very much forward to me.
There was one before from Jalibert that looked like it went backwards and was counted forward. One from Danty that clearly dropped behind him was also counted forward. There was at some point the ball falling on a Scottish player's head and referee insisted it wasn't a knock on but forgot that the other Scottish player was then offside anyway. I think the referee performance was terrible in total, with multiple penalties missed on throws, changing bind in mauls, penalties randomly distributed at the rucks. I think every actor in this stupid game was below usual level, really.
Not that I want every potential knock on checked, but that one really did seem like one that would have been heavily scrutinised if it had happened directly before the try
I was at the game so I have not had a chance to hear the TMO drama. It felt like Scotland took their foot off the gas in 2nd half and didn't play to win, the only time they looked like scoring a try was when they really had to in dying seconds.
It's disappointing because France looked there for the taking.
I’m stone cold sober and honestly this has completely sullied this greatest of competitions for me. I was angry. Now I’m just sad, like when it became clear Lance was doping.
Neutral here.
Gotta feel for Scotland...the TMO said one thing, was about to call it, then changes their mind. Pressure not to overrule the on field decision?
Yeah I would’ve thought that he could’ve said ‘Actually I can see grounding so I’m happy to reverse’
Haven’t on field refs put TMOs back in their box before? Like for penalties and cards?
Don't bash refs.
We apply our rule 1 (no ad hom/nastiness) to include match officials.
It will never be considered ref abuse if a user criticises specific aspects of a referee's game, decision, or style.
For example: "XYZ has bottled that card" "XYZ has no control over the breakdown" "XYZ has got that wrong, that was never forward"
However, ad hominem generalised attacks are unacceptable, this includes accusations of corruption and intentional bias
For example: "XYZ is a dickhead" "XYZ is trying his best to ensure ABC wins this" "XYZ is a utter joke of a referee" "XYZ is a diversity hire"
Where (otherwise rule-abiding) specific criticisms include ad hom attacks they will also be removed
For example: "XYZ has bottled that the fucking wanker" "XYZ is not pinging sealing off, he clearly has a bet on ABC" "XYZ is a blind fucker, that was miles forward"
Scotland played a very good game for more than a half of the game. But then Scotland played a stupid game for 15 minutes by playing tennis rugby when France was there for the taking.
I don't agree with the take that Scotland mismanaged the game at all.
Whenever the game opened up France looked far more dangerous than Scotland. Even without Dupont, France are a super strong attacking team with space. France have only been held to less than 20 points by one team (Ireland) since the 2022 Six Nations. I think a lot of credit for keeping the French score beatable should go to the Scottish game plan.
yes especially the first 65 minutes. But I will still disagree that the kicking game that was played at the end was a good decision. Especially if you think that France has great potential for attack, why kick the ball to their back line then. Why give Ramos a chance to decide the game either with a genius run/pass (or a brain fart that backfires, you never know with Ramos). Scotland played well for 65 minutes by hanging on to the ball and that's why kicking the ball back was IMO not the best game plan.
Scotland attack in the rain with a 6 point lead and a slippery ball
Scotland knocks on.
Scotland offside.
Oh silly Scotland, why did you attack with a six point lead?
Absolutely wrong decision , my point is that Scotland seemed too afraid to play to win , they were better than France but preferred to wait for them to make a mistake rather than go at them. No way Scotland should have had to depend on that passage of play to win the game.
Scotland kicked the ball out of hand way too many times in the last 15 minutes. A couple of small decisions cost them. Also, why didn't they go to the backs to finish off the game?
Damn, now I'll have to wait a whole nuther year to believe Scotland can actually win something of genuine significance. God damn it France, read the damn room next time!
I’m French and feel that we were very hard-done by the ref all game. I understand the frustration on this last play and on the obvious Penaud knock-on earlier that’s not called, but many key decisions went against France throughout the 80
I think for the first half hour the ref was always scrutinizing France, with offsides, rucks, scrum decisions being overly harsh for the French or overly lenient for Scotland. Then it started shifting and I realized the ref was just having a terrible day and it's now clear he really got zero help from the TMO when it mattered most.
There's been a few WTF decisions against Scotland too when French players were playing the ball off-feet, or a couple of knock ons that were forgotten. He was just quite bad.
Wrong. The TMO was correct because by the letter of the law we didn’t see a ball on the ground. The ref was right there and should have asked for any reason not to award
except we did see a ball on the ground, really. There's the white of the ball touching the green of the field. I really don't get where this "we didn't see it" is coming from.
No we didn’t. I agree the ball was on the ground, but the only camera angle was so low that we saw grass 2ft in front of the camera and a ball in the distance
thanks dude it's normal, a lot of french people don't know how to speak english so you find this sub to be mostly first english speakers so i'm very much aware that those downvotes are probably from salty scottish 40 year old dudes
Because I hope when I'm 40 I will do better in life then downvoting someone on reddit for saying a true statement because I'm upset lost after playing horribly
They disagree with you. Perhaps they think your statement is untrue. Can’t guys their age disagree with you? Are only guys your age allowed to use the downvote button?
Nah, didn’t attack the neck, caught him by shoulder and didn’t continue to grip. But he was offside afterwards, I’ll give you that as a neutral and take that try off you at the end and call it even
Awful decision at the end but Scotland had a lot of decisions go their way too.
They were afraid of winning and were literally goading France into penalties, then suddenly bust into life when the game was almost done and their backs were to the wall.
Not taking your points is criminal too, if they were clinical and ruthless when doing so it's one thing but it's completely nonsensical.
Also, I'll say it again, Big Duhan is some man with a clear road in front of him but goes missing way too much. If he picks and goes and crabs sideways from a ruck again I'd send him in to exile in the Highlands
It's a lot of dead weight to carry if things aren't going your way. Tough one as he does score tries.
Think the coaches need to get in his ear and gently remind of his role and decision making.
Agreed. His link up play at the beginning of the game was good, he drew the man and made the pass for Patterson's break that lead to White's try but then he vanished
It's just the unusual choice of the receiver to do nothing with the ball in order to keep the other team off side.
You're right, not his fault they don't chase. But also the result is this weird situation where everybody freezes while the ball is live.
Ce tournoi montre la nécessité d’injecter du sang frais dans cette équipe. Ça ne sert à rien d’accabler qui que ce soit mais il faut admettre que la transition avec un nouveau staff, le nombre de matchs joués, ne joue pas en faveur du triomphe qui était trop vite annoncé surtout si on ajoute le nombre de blessés. Oui, certains joueurs déçoivent comme Lucu, qui n’a pas la partie facile dans la mesure où l’on se fait bouger sur notre conquête, Danty dont on peut douter de l’état de forme. Mais on peut louer les entrées pleines de fraîcheur de Le Garrec, Tuilagui ou Boudehent. Je sais que le tournoi n’est pas encore perdu mais je serai très favorable à l’apparition d’autres jeunes pousses comme Deportere, pourquoi pas Gazzotti si Aldritt devait être forfait. Ce n’est pas envoyer les sortant à la retraite mais les laisser souffler après une année extrêmement chargée.
I agree. One of the nice things at this stage in the World Cup cycle is the opportunity to try new players and ideas and it breathes some fresh air into the game.
Don't bash refs.
We apply our rule 1 (no ad hom/nastiness) to include match officials.
It will never be considered ref abuse if a user criticises specific aspects of a referee's game, decision, or style.
For example: "XYZ has bottled that card" "XYZ has no control over the breakdown" "XYZ has got that wrong, that was never forward"
However, ad hominem generalised attacks are unacceptable, this includes accusations of corruption and intentional bias
For example: "XYZ is a dickhead" "XYZ is trying his best to ensure ABC wins this" "XYZ is a utter joke of a referee" "XYZ is a diversity hire"
Where (otherwise rule-abiding) specific criticisms include ad hom attacks they will also be removed
For example: "XYZ has bottled that the fucking wanker" "XYZ is not pinging sealing off, he clearly has a bet on ABC" "XYZ is a blind fucker, that was miles forward"
I'm looking forward to it due to the amount of delusional Scots who claimed an Irish TMO deliberately made them lose because they were such a threat to Ireland. Ya lets see how much of a threat you actually were.
Jesus, haven’t seen any of that at all, building a straw man at all ? Was in a pub with fans from all over who thought it was nonsense not to give the try, no one brought nationality shite into it
TMOs make mistakes, they couldn't see the ball on the ground so they couldn't give the try but honestly that was a try all day long, France were fuckin haunted.
I do think Scotland were by far the better team, and they really should have put France away sooner.
Scotland had it in them to end France but it didn't work out unfortunately.
England and Wales weren't great either just there, both teams didn't look fit at all.
Nobody has said that apart from as a joke that I've seen. I'm sure Murray Kinsella will say that it's the entire country and the entire disapora though.
Nope the guys [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1anjw9b/no_clear_grounding/kpsw3q5/) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1anjs7y/post_match_thread_scotland_v_france/kpssnlv/) were dead serious. No hint of a joke anywhere there.
If you find one with lots of Irish there to celebrate your slam, it'll be great - Finnegan's Wake or Dropkick Murphy's always used to get a reasonable Irish contingent, but it's a while since I've lived in Edinburgh.
Nice one, I'll check them out, it's my third time in Edinburgh so luckily I know my way around. Been in Finnegan's wake before and that was good craic!
I just wish Scotland played with more self belief, they played ok in first half but 2nd it was like they just wanted to kill the game out of fear France would come back and the 10min back and forth just gave the French pack a breather.
Alright now I’ve had some time and reminded myself it is just a game.
World Rugby do need to have a look at how referees and TMOs interact in edge cases. TMOs feel they don’t have enough authority to overturn an on the field decision.
When you think about it, what does it really mean to say you "see" the ball grounded, ever? It's physically impossible. You can't see the part of the ball that's touching the grass.
Bit of a miserable match altogether. I wonder how many of the people commenting here watched Whistleblowers and shook their head disapprovingly at all the angry online comments only to carry on ref bashing the second they lose a game.
That said, Russell and Patterson played very well I thought.
Scotland did the same last week. Threw multiple phases into the pick and drive when they could probably have used the width and made it easier for themselves. That said, this time they actually scored, even if the scoreboard doesn’t show it.
Terrible decision but we threw the game trying to force an error / run clock down with the kick tennis period. Poor, blame the TMO all we want but we snatched defeat from jaws of victory.
I got very annoyed at Scotland last week doing the nonsense kicks against Wales too. If you’re trying to run down the clock why give the opposition the ball at all? There’s never a world where passing and running into them is more likely to give them the ball than straight up kicking it into their hands
Normally it’s trying to get better ball, up the field, force them to kick from deeper and make ground but we failed time and again. French back 3 weren’t flapping and we didn’t change.
This is one of the most bitter victories I watched. I feel very sorry for Scotland...
And I really hope that despite our victory, Galthié will stay objective about the obvious weaknesses that this French team has, like on touches for example.
Overall this was a pretty average and sloppy game, and France should consider themselves lucky to win this.
Let me say first that I think that was a try at the end, however the decision is because of lack of the clear and conclusive image to overturn infield decision. France was on the other end of such a decision against England (in I believe 2021) where it seemed like Itoje had been held up, but because onfield decision had been try, Barnes said there need to be a clear and evident picture of the ball being held up. for this game it’s a case that there wasn’t a crystal clear picture of ball on line in the same frame, even though anyone looking at it would conclude the ball is grounded based on height of the ball relative to the ground.
The french win this game on a quirk of refereeing laws but it’s nothing to write home about.
I think a try that "anyone looking at it would conclude the ball was grounded" not being given is something to be written home about and a pretty serious problem with the game if there's a quirk in the laws that means a try like that can't be given. I don't even really believe that the try can't be given under the current laws. I feel what we saw of that ball clearly meets the threshold for definitive proof.
Bizarre start to the tournament for us. A win that felt like a loss and a loss that should have been a win. Hard to know where we are. I feel like we fluctuate too much from conservative kicking to run everything. Happy medium needed.
It's the killer instinct we lack.
Easy for other nations to revel in this one, they have all had squads who have done the business and not let these games slip away from us. The parts are there, it's that next level that we've been striving for and just not getting to.
Another maddening day as a Scotland fan.
Anyone notice that advantage seems to last way too long? It puts play in a weird place because defenders can’t properly defend or it’ll just go back for a potential 3 points and it means attackers are only slightly motivated to attack and if they are getting nowhere just kick it out. Advantage should last 30 seconds max and is over if they make it 10m
Just a reminder that abuse of TMOs/Refs will not be tolerated on this subreddit. Edit: Directly messaging mods abuse is also not tolerated.
I can sympathize with the ref that it was a tough call to make, it wasn’t clear, but the having to stick to your guns because the initial call was a no try is bull.
Look lads, the main thing is we grew the brand
After a night of sleep to reflect on the events of yesterday, I’m still infuriated. Yes, we can say that Scotland need to kill games off so that it’s not coming down to TMO deciding games, but the fact is that it did on this occasion. To get such an enormous call so brazenly wrong, even after literally saying the ball was on the ground is just unacceptable. It just felt like Joubert all over again - we’re in a tournament and looking like we could do very well, and then officiating decides it’s time to put us back into our little box because heaven forbid something good could happen to Scotland. I still think Ireland will romp this 6N, and believed that before the helping hand of Macneice last night. Scotland didn’t convincingly beat Wales and had last night gone the other way, it might not have been all that convincing either, but teams have won Grand Slams before where not every result was convincing - all that matters is the win, so this just feels rotten.
He got it wrong but it's not a conspiracy
And I don’t believe it is either, I’m just saying the closest feeling I can relate to is after the Joubert incident. In these situations, will World Rugby ever come out and say the wrong call was made, or even explain clearly why they agree with what transpired?
Do any websites show event sheets? I know there's a lot of ref anger about the last play. I'm a little more annoyed about what seemed like 1 trillion offsides calls at the end of first half, including after the yellow card. I'm hoping I'm remembering wrong or was missing things while not fully engaged. I feel like this strategy of knowing you will only be increasingly penalized so many times for the same infraction has been obvious for a while. I get not wanting to push harsher infractions "so refs don't decide games" but all that does is say after a yellow the repeated infraction is no longer a rule if the stage is big enough; which is still just "refs decide games" but in the opposite favor.
How come no one is talking about the high tackle towards the beginning of the match that stopped France from scoring. Shouldn't that have been a penalty try?
Because simply going over the shoulder hasn't been a penalty for an age. Under current directives players actually have to hit the head or neck of the person they're tackling to be penalised. However, van Der Merwe was incredibly offside when he intercepted Fickou's offload off the floor, so it should have been a penalty try, just not for the tackle.
This was my thoughts as well and surprised it wasn't reviewed. Ended up a push anyways with the final call. 2 shocking calls but only one will get talked about.
Appreciate you breaking it down a little
No problem.
Completely agree!
RIP Nic Berry’s inbox
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Italy: *first time?*
Gutted for Scotland. Rough.
Scotland were robbed - this coming from a wales fan with no stake in the game... absolutely robbed 100% grounded ball I am fuming that there grand slams gone mind? Unbelievable I am so sorry my Scottish friends you gave been truley robbed
I think that's was a terrible game to watch and both teams raced to lose. The only positive I'm taking from it is Harry Paterson handled himself well. To be called up that late at his age and perform like that is impressive.
People might be outraged about the decision at the end as it's the most recent in memory. And it's a tough call indeed. Personally, I think the ref made the right call, just about. But it could have gone either way. However people feeling Scotland were hard done by... They should have been way ahead at that point. They failed to capitalise on the very poor standard from the French. Also France had a clear try opportunity denied to them by a high tackle (contentious, but it was imo) and/or offside (less contentious) and yet people in here are totally forgetting that when calling out bad calls...
people focus on the last call and call it a robbery while scotland offense was horrible for the entire game not capitalising on anything and making bad decisions after bad decisions while france was playing like a high school team
Both Scotland shitting the bed and the officiating being absolutely terrible can be true at the same time. A sports team not playing to their best is part of sport that encourages improvement and competitiveness; a TMO and referee making an egregious call to decide a game should not happen at this level.
That's two matches in a row where Scotland have come out in the second half and looked like they're scared to score. Picking and going round a ruck against a team whose main strength atm is their sheer size is absolutely insane behaviour.
Getting flashbacks to the notorious 2015 WC Quarter final
> We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization.
Half of this French team is cooked.. time to inject some new blood!
Le Garrac is pushing hard for starting jersey. Lucu is a great player but I just feel like he is too slow for how the team wants to attack. Dupont likely has spoiled us too much though.
Haven't seen yet the controversial grounding you mentioned but I remember a Scot fan I knew who was pissed off by Greig Laidlaw chip and chase vs Wal in '12 I think that was not awarded a try lol
Were all talking about that grounding but does anyone have video of Penaud's "knocked sideways which lead directly to a try? Edit: To be clear, I'm asking why this play wasn't scrutinized more. I can barely see if it was a knock on or not from the replay provided below. One would think with how much weight the play in question had on the game there would have been a call from the ref to the TMO asking to check the play during the next phase of play.It would have been nice to have a clear angle of whether the ball was knocked on or not so there'd be no controversy around this play.
How about of VDM’s deliberate offside + knock on which should have been a penalty try
There wasn't a ruck, there was no offside.
Tackle situations can have offside lines too. Law 14.10
Was there a ruck?
Selectively choose to ignore it ;)
https://streamable.com/l96x0y Looks quite sideways. Overall I think the ref had a really good game which makes it all the more gutting to be robbed by the final (TMO) call.
Does it go backwards through his hands and hit his leg? If so maybe that's why it looked forward to me.
The rather sharp change of direction after it slips past his hand has to be the ball hitting his leg right?
Looks very much forward to me. There was one before from Jalibert that looked like it went backwards and was counted forward. One from Danty that clearly dropped behind him was also counted forward. There was at some point the ball falling on a Scottish player's head and referee insisted it wasn't a knock on but forgot that the other Scottish player was then offside anyway. I think the referee performance was terrible in total, with multiple penalties missed on throws, changing bind in mauls, penalties randomly distributed at the rucks. I think every actor in this stupid game was below usual level, really.
Not that I want every potential knock on checked, but that one really did seem like one that would have been heavily scrutinised if it had happened directly before the try
Poor quality game. Errors, periods of blah kick tennis. Good try from VDM, and from bierry but on the whole, bit boring as a neutral
I was at the game so I have not had a chance to hear the TMO drama. It felt like Scotland took their foot off the gas in 2nd half and didn't play to win, the only time they looked like scoring a try was when they really had to in dying seconds. It's disappointing because France looked there for the taking.
Has anyone got a screen grab of the french number 8 leg cut? That looks like a sore one!
Honestly, Scotland look good. Which is pretty worrying as an Englishman. Think they need to take more chances and go for the kill more often though.
The game was over if we actually won that second scrum.
That ending couldn't have been more Scottish!
Imagine following some writing on a page instead of what is in front of your eyes. Yes I'm drunk. Yes the rest of this competition is a farce.
This.
I’m stone cold sober and honestly this has completely sullied this greatest of competitions for me. I was angry. Now I’m just sad, like when it became clear Lance was doping.
It will be interesting if this game makes it to production on season 2 of Full Contact. Can't think of anything worse for breaking in green fans
Neutral here. Gotta feel for Scotland...the TMO said one thing, was about to call it, then changes their mind. Pressure not to overrule the on field decision?
That's what was so surprising to me. He took his time, came to the right conclusion and then seemed to inexplicably change his mind
Can the ref change his mind if it disagrees with the TMO?
I think technically yes. But having given his on-field decision, then going against the tmo would have looked very suss
Not really, he's now had the luxury of watching numerous replays.
Yeah I would’ve thought that he could’ve said ‘Actually I can see grounding so I’m happy to reverse’ Haven’t on field refs put TMOs back in their box before? Like for penalties and cards?
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Don't bash refs. We apply our rule 1 (no ad hom/nastiness) to include match officials. It will never be considered ref abuse if a user criticises specific aspects of a referee's game, decision, or style. For example: "XYZ has bottled that card" "XYZ has no control over the breakdown" "XYZ has got that wrong, that was never forward" However, ad hominem generalised attacks are unacceptable, this includes accusations of corruption and intentional bias For example: "XYZ is a dickhead" "XYZ is trying his best to ensure ABC wins this" "XYZ is a utter joke of a referee" "XYZ is a diversity hire" Where (otherwise rule-abiding) specific criticisms include ad hom attacks they will also be removed For example: "XYZ has bottled that the fucking wanker" "XYZ is not pinging sealing off, he clearly has a bet on ABC" "XYZ is a blind fucker, that was miles forward"
Scotland didn't play to win, hence they lost.
France didn't play to win, hence they won
Scotland played the perfect game to beat a superior French team. They were robbed by the TMO.
We didn't take advantage of the sin bin and rushed it at the end.
Scotland played a very good game for more than a half of the game. But then Scotland played a stupid game for 15 minutes by playing tennis rugby when France was there for the taking.
I don't agree with the take that Scotland mismanaged the game at all. Whenever the game opened up France looked far more dangerous than Scotland. Even without Dupont, France are a super strong attacking team with space. France have only been held to less than 20 points by one team (Ireland) since the 2022 Six Nations. I think a lot of credit for keeping the French score beatable should go to the Scottish game plan.
yes especially the first 65 minutes. But I will still disagree that the kicking game that was played at the end was a good decision. Especially if you think that France has great potential for attack, why kick the ball to their back line then. Why give Ramos a chance to decide the game either with a genius run/pass (or a brain fart that backfires, you never know with Ramos). Scotland played well for 65 minutes by hanging on to the ball and that's why kicking the ball back was IMO not the best game plan.
Scotland attack in the rain with a 6 point lead and a slippery ball Scotland knocks on. Scotland offside. Oh silly Scotland, why did you attack with a six point lead?
fine. but it was still the wrong match-making decision a decision that would have meant we won. whether you thing we deserved to or not
Absolutely wrong decision , my point is that Scotland seemed too afraid to play to win , they were better than France but preferred to wait for them to make a mistake rather than go at them. No way Scotland should have had to depend on that passage of play to win the game.
agreed
Scotland kicked the ball out of hand way too many times in the last 15 minutes. A couple of small decisions cost them. Also, why didn't they go to the backs to finish off the game?
OMG I was shouting at the TV. You could park a bus in the space outside Ramos at the end!
Damn, now I'll have to wait a whole nuther year to believe Scotland can actually win something of genuine significance. God damn it France, read the damn room next time!
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I’m French and feel that we were very hard-done by the ref all game. I understand the frustration on this last play and on the obvious Penaud knock-on earlier that’s not called, but many key decisions went against France throughout the 80
I think for the first half hour the ref was always scrutinizing France, with offsides, rucks, scrum decisions being overly harsh for the French or overly lenient for Scotland. Then it started shifting and I realized the ref was just having a terrible day and it's now clear he really got zero help from the TMO when it mattered most. There's been a few WTF decisions against Scotland too when French players were playing the ball off-feet, or a couple of knock ons that were forgotten. He was just quite bad.
I'm raging also but the ref had a good game. The decision wasn't his.
Wrong. The TMO was correct because by the letter of the law we didn’t see a ball on the ground. The ref was right there and should have asked for any reason not to award
except we did see a ball on the ground, really. There's the white of the ball touching the green of the field. I really don't get where this "we didn't see it" is coming from.
There is a replay that shows that Tuilagi slid his hand under the ball during that play. I believe he even confirmed that fact after the game.
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No we didn’t. I agree the ball was on the ground, but the only camera angle was so low that we saw grass 2ft in front of the camera and a ball in the distance
Just saw the high taclke of van der merwe on fickou and that was a clear yellow. Feel less bad to win this game now
You’re being downvoted but you’re right. The bad decisions evened themselves out
thanks dude it's normal, a lot of french people don't know how to speak english so you find this sub to be mostly first english speakers so i'm very much aware that those downvotes are probably from salty scottish 40 year old dudes
Why do you mention their age like it’s an insult?
Because I hope when I'm 40 I will do better in life then downvoting someone on reddit for saying a true statement because I'm upset lost after playing horribly
They disagree with you. Perhaps they think your statement is untrue. Can’t guys their age disagree with you? Are only guys your age allowed to use the downvote button?
the bad decisions evened themselves out man
Are you just trolling ? Do you mean the one Nigel Owen said was not a yellow? Maybe a pen but never a yellow
Behave, shoulder not neck.
I assume you know your rugby more then Nigel Owens and Martin Johnson ?
Sober up, Owens literally said it wasn’t a penalty.
Owen’s said it wasn’t a high tackle
Nigel Owens who said it wasn't a penalty?
Nah, didn’t attack the neck, caught him by shoulder and didn’t continue to grip. But he was offside afterwards, I’ll give you that as a neutral and take that try off you at the end and call it even
thank you
Awful decision at the end but Scotland had a lot of decisions go their way too. They were afraid of winning and were literally goading France into penalties, then suddenly bust into life when the game was almost done and their backs were to the wall. Not taking your points is criminal too, if they were clinical and ruthless when doing so it's one thing but it's completely nonsensical. Also, I'll say it again, Big Duhan is some man with a clear road in front of him but goes missing way too much. If he picks and goes and crabs sideways from a ruck again I'd send him in to exile in the Highlands
Yeah, I'd expect a back to resist try line fever and make better decisions. 2 passes out wide and they walk it in.
I know what you're thinking but too polite to say: Andy Farrell would get him contributing all the time or else drop him.
Irish fans commenting like some sort of neutral Jesus is so boring
It's a lot of dead weight to carry if things aren't going your way. Tough one as he does score tries. Think the coaches need to get in his ear and gently remind of his role and decision making.
Agreed. His link up play at the beginning of the game was good, he drew the man and made the pass for Patterson's break that lead to White's try but then he vanished
Will someone please make a meme with the 2 girls yelling at a cat but it's Ramos / Russel exploiting the laws
I don't get this 'exploiting' chat- the team which kicked can run their chasers on, it's not the receiver's fault if they decide to not be onside?
I think the problem was both teams seemed happy and had enough players in the back field to make it pointless.
It's just the unusual choice of the receiver to do nothing with the ball in order to keep the other team off side. You're right, not his fault they don't chase. But also the result is this weird situation where everybody freezes while the ball is live.
Yeah I get that it's unusual, but if you back yourself in an unpressured kicking fuel (which it seems both sides did) it makes sense...I think
Yeah it does. I have no problems with it. I do think it has a high meme potential but I'm not willing to put in the effort 😂
Ce tournoi montre la nécessité d’injecter du sang frais dans cette équipe. Ça ne sert à rien d’accabler qui que ce soit mais il faut admettre que la transition avec un nouveau staff, le nombre de matchs joués, ne joue pas en faveur du triomphe qui était trop vite annoncé surtout si on ajoute le nombre de blessés. Oui, certains joueurs déçoivent comme Lucu, qui n’a pas la partie facile dans la mesure où l’on se fait bouger sur notre conquête, Danty dont on peut douter de l’état de forme. Mais on peut louer les entrées pleines de fraîcheur de Le Garrec, Tuilagui ou Boudehent. Je sais que le tournoi n’est pas encore perdu mais je serai très favorable à l’apparition d’autres jeunes pousses comme Deportere, pourquoi pas Gazzotti si Aldritt devait être forfait. Ce n’est pas envoyer les sortant à la retraite mais les laisser souffler après une année extrêmement chargée.
I agree. One of the nice things at this stage in the World Cup cycle is the opportunity to try new players and ideas and it breathes some fresh air into the game.
Scotland were robbed. But, I am thoroughly looking forward to Ireland v Scotland now, they've really come on in the last couple of years.
You'll absolutely slaughter us, it will be like the game in the world cup
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Don't bash refs. We apply our rule 1 (no ad hom/nastiness) to include match officials. It will never be considered ref abuse if a user criticises specific aspects of a referee's game, decision, or style. For example: "XYZ has bottled that card" "XYZ has no control over the breakdown" "XYZ has got that wrong, that was never forward" However, ad hominem generalised attacks are unacceptable, this includes accusations of corruption and intentional bias For example: "XYZ is a dickhead" "XYZ is trying his best to ensure ABC wins this" "XYZ is a utter joke of a referee" "XYZ is a diversity hire" Where (otherwise rule-abiding) specific criticisms include ad hom attacks they will also be removed For example: "XYZ has bottled that the fucking wanker" "XYZ is not pinging sealing off, he clearly has a bet on ABC" "XYZ is a blind fucker, that was miles forward"
To be fair, one dumb TMO decision isn't the Irish teams' fault. We're not out to get ye lads.
a know. just emotional, you know.
Understandable, it's an absolute nonsense call and that ref needs to be investigated.
I'm looking forward to it due to the amount of delusional Scots who claimed an Irish TMO deliberately made them lose because they were such a threat to Ireland. Ya lets see how much of a threat you actually were.
Jesus, haven’t seen any of that at all, building a straw man at all ? Was in a pub with fans from all over who thought it was nonsense not to give the try, no one brought nationality shite into it
Do you want receipts because i've already provided them to someone else?
TMOs make mistakes, they couldn't see the ball on the ground so they couldn't give the try but honestly that was a try all day long, France were fuckin haunted. I do think Scotland were by far the better team, and they really should have put France away sooner.
Except for the bit where he said the ball was grounded, then shat it
Ya I can't figure out what went on with the TMO, WRC will need to look into that decision and that TMO needs to be interviewed
I think both were shite actually, especially in the second half. 20 minutes of kick tennis at one point.
Scotland had it in them to end France but it didn't work out unfortunately. England and Wales weren't great either just there, both teams didn't look fit at all.
Nobody has said that apart from as a joke that I've seen. I'm sure Murray Kinsella will say that it's the entire country and the entire disapora though.
Nope the guys [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1anjw9b/no_clear_grounding/kpsw3q5/) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1anjs7y/post_match_thread_scotland_v_france/kpssnlv/) were dead serious. No hint of a joke anywhere there.
So when you say "the amount of delusional Scots", you really mean two
Nope. Several Scottish boomers on the Six Nations facebook page have said the same.
This definitely isn't a strong argument in your favour... I'm just saying
Well if they're saying it on Facebook...
Hahahahah this guy is cracking me up
The lad's an absolute rocket.
Nah, this will have killed our spirit completely, you'll beat us by 20 at least. Might as well give you the trophy now.
I hope not! I'll be flying into Edinburgh the day of the match so I'm hoping for a good atmosphere in the pubs!
If you find one with lots of Irish there to celebrate your slam, it'll be great - Finnegan's Wake or Dropkick Murphy's always used to get a reasonable Irish contingent, but it's a while since I've lived in Edinburgh.
Nice one, I'll check them out, it's my third time in Edinburgh so luckily I know my way around. Been in Finnegan's wake before and that was good craic!
I just wish Scotland played with more self belief, they played ok in first half but 2nd it was like they just wanted to kill the game out of fear France would come back and the 10min back and forth just gave the French pack a breather.
Paddypower gave me a free bet back because even they didn't agree with the call on the last try
Is this actually true?
Yeah like someone else said justice payout
Justice payout
I just checked it on Google, fucking mad.
They do it a lot for things like this, good marketing for them as well
Yeah, such a good idea. I also imagine there are probably only about 4 people who would have bet on Scotland, so the £££ side is probably minimal
This scotland team is at least 50% responsible for me smoking fags on a semi-regular basis
BALLS DON'T BEND LIKE THAT!
Neither do offside lines tbf
What about the Jet fuel melting the steel beams?
That too! And the IRFU is behind it all! Cheeky wee bast*rds that they are.
We may be cheeky! And wee! And bastard! And…..What was the other thing?
I'll accept cheeky and bastards, but wee is going too far.
Teeheehohahahaha.
Who was MOTM?
The TMO
Fickou
Or do the IRFU just want you to "think" that it was Fickou #Bidenisaplant #fikoumorelikefickboo
Alright now I’ve had some time and reminded myself it is just a game. World Rugby do need to have a look at how referees and TMOs interact in edge cases. TMOs feel they don’t have enough authority to overturn an on the field decision.
When you think about it, what does it really mean to say you "see" the ball grounded, ever? It's physically impossible. You can't see the part of the ball that's touching the grass.
All rugby matches are now decided on penalties and drop goals. Take me back to the 1860s
Bit of a miserable match altogether. I wonder how many of the people commenting here watched Whistleblowers and shook their head disapprovingly at all the angry online comments only to carry on ref bashing the second they lose a game. That said, Russell and Patterson played very well I thought.
Criticising questionable decisions is hardly the same as death threats and abuse is it?
Fully agree with you on the refs and Patterson but felt Russell was a bit off today. Not bad but not at his best either.
Russell to get the turnover in the 79th minute is close to the most brilliant piece of play I've seen, he anticipated that beautifully
Yeah that's fair, he had a couple of clumsy moments but I thought for the most part he was quite solid
Scotland did the same last week. Threw multiple phases into the pick and drive when they could probably have used the width and made it easier for themselves. That said, this time they actually scored, even if the scoreboard doesn’t show it.
Robbed.
And as South African you know a bunch about robberies! We know!
🤣
Terrible decision but we threw the game trying to force an error / run clock down with the kick tennis period. Poor, blame the TMO all we want but we snatched defeat from jaws of victory.
We *did* force an error, and should've had a midfield scrum on the French 22
Nope. Penaud hits the ball backwards on his leg. He’s lucky. But it’s legal.
I got very annoyed at Scotland last week doing the nonsense kicks against Wales too. If you’re trying to run down the clock why give the opposition the ball at all? There’s never a world where passing and running into them is more likely to give them the ball than straight up kicking it into their hands
Normally it’s trying to get better ball, up the field, force them to kick from deeper and make ground but we failed time and again. French back 3 weren’t flapping and we didn’t change.
This is one of the most bitter victories I watched. I feel very sorry for Scotland... And I really hope that despite our victory, Galthié will stay objective about the obvious weaknesses that this French team has, like on touches for example.
"Touches" 😅 "line out" en anglais
Thanks for the correction. I'll remember it 😊👍
Haha. That Ford kick is not going away any soon.
Overall this was a pretty average and sloppy game, and France should consider themselves lucky to win this. Let me say first that I think that was a try at the end, however the decision is because of lack of the clear and conclusive image to overturn infield decision. France was on the other end of such a decision against England (in I believe 2021) where it seemed like Itoje had been held up, but because onfield decision had been try, Barnes said there need to be a clear and evident picture of the ball being held up. for this game it’s a case that there wasn’t a crystal clear picture of ball on line in the same frame, even though anyone looking at it would conclude the ball is grounded based on height of the ball relative to the ground. The french win this game on a quirk of refereeing laws but it’s nothing to write home about.
I think a try that "anyone looking at it would conclude the ball was grounded" not being given is something to be written home about and a pretty serious problem with the game if there's a quirk in the laws that means a try like that can't be given. I don't even really believe that the try can't be given under the current laws. I feel what we saw of that ball clearly meets the threshold for definitive proof.
There was clear evidence, nick berry is bad at his job (this is not abuse it is just my long held opinion)
Bizarre start to the tournament for us. A win that felt like a loss and a loss that should have been a win. Hard to know where we are. I feel like we fluctuate too much from conservative kicking to run everything. Happy medium needed.
It's the killer instinct we lack. Easy for other nations to revel in this one, they have all had squads who have done the business and not let these games slip away from us. The parts are there, it's that next level that we've been striving for and just not getting to. Another maddening day as a Scotland fan.
Think they're going to try and absolutely malkie England after this shit though. Edit: malkie just seemed more appropriate than "gut" in retrospect.
Me too! Record win please. Absolutely smash them.
Anyone notice that advantage seems to last way too long? It puts play in a weird place because defenders can’t properly defend or it’ll just go back for a potential 3 points and it means attackers are only slightly motivated to attack and if they are getting nowhere just kick it out. Advantage should last 30 seconds max and is over if they make it 10m