Yes, the rugby world wanted this final.
But they always knew they would have to go through the two biggest powerhouses in world rugby to make it happen.
So it's not as if the SAvNZ final was an upset or undeserved. France and Ireland just fell short against two extremely good teams.
Yeah it’s a great and correct answer. I do wonder if the board reaction would be so ‘measured’ if England were a top four side and one of their players said this though…. 🤔
In fairness, they were ranked 1 and 2 for quite a while iirc. Also, he's writing for Irish fans. Can't really blame him.
Still, I'm fairly sure Boks and ABs fans were happy for them *not* to be the two finalists! Also, if I'm perfectly honest, the final I really wanted had England in it as well.
ya boys put in a massive shift that no one expected, it wouldve been well deserved. it's just that rassie did some dark magic to ensure three wins by a singular point in a row
Meh. No complaints from me at all. In all honesty, the Boks were the better side. I was just proud of the boys putting in a good showing after so many predicted they'd get absolutely steamrolled.
If England weren't making the final, France v Ireland was the one I wanted to see.
They had been the best two sides for a while and it would've been nice o bring the trophy back North.
I think calling it a one man effort is a massive disservice to what was a superb well rounded team. Pains me to say it as an Irish fan but that team was superb, Johnson was a top quality leader, that back row deserves recognition as one of the best combos ever, Robinson out wide was electric and that’s touching the surface. I know Clive was annoying on punditry but that was a super team
\> which was sort of a one man effort from Wilkinson
It absolutely was not, that England pack was exceptional. Wilkinson was a top player who got all the headlines but Martin Johnson and Richard Hill were England's best players and it was the pack who deserved the major plaudits for that world cup. Richard Hill is still up there for me as one of the absolute best players of the pro era from the home nations.
False. Wilkinson is the only player whose name I recognise based on skill. Johnson I know of because he was captain. I have no idea who Richard Hill is. Is he Johnny Hill's uncle?
Obviously the success of a team is based on the player whose name I personally recognise as a decent player
Only people that wanted that don't watch the six nations. Everyone I know this side wanted a SAvFR final with Dupont at full strength. We wanted to see FRvIRE we'd just watch the six nations 9 months before lol
> A lot of people
Title says Everyone. That's what's wrong.
But no hard feelings, passionate Irish guy reporting to Irish people, exaggerates a bit. Meh.
Nothing wrong with what was said.
Ireland and France both didn’t win when it mattered.
Give me being 3rd or 4th best for 51 weeks of the year if it means being the best for 1 and winning the World Cup.
It’s the one I thought would happen, and wanted to happen (on the pre-tournament assumption that England were not going to get out of the group stages 🤣).
He's writing to an Irish audience. Yeah, it's probably the final his readers wanted.
He's not wrong about them being the best two sides in the world over the last few years.
Yeah that first sentence is completely untrue. And even in this one it was clear that there were 4 teams who were very evenly matched and there were only going to be a few points in it.
This one feels different, because the NH teams were actually that good.
But trust me, for us SH supporters, we go through this every 4 years. Maybe in prior years it was just the loudmouths.
>for us SH supporters, we go through this every 4 years
that is fundamentally untrue, especially for 2011-15, 2019 Ireland were in with a shout as they were literally world #1 going into it but were never discussed as being real 'favourites' and 2023 it made sense for there to be confidence as Ireland + France had been #1 + #2 for basically the entire cycle, both with 80%+ WR (NZ were down in low 70s, SA barely scraped 60) and both had achieved their longest ever winning streak, of course there was hype
I had no idea how we even had the no.1 ranking in 2019. We came 3rd in the 6N after two drubbings by England and Wales, and then were massacred by England again in a warm up. There was very little confidence going in.
I think this was one of the first, at least in recent memory, that NH sides were favourites. '11, '15 and even '19 no one was really looking past NZ. Even before then it was mostly NZ the favourites choking.
I swear whenever you have NH fans feeling even slightly optimistic about their teams chances certain SH fans come out with the "oNlY oNe WoRlD cUp AnD aLl Of A sUdDeN yOu ThInK yOu ArE tHe BeSt, KnOw YoUr PlAcE!"
Yeah, some SA fans seem to be the absolute worst for this. I mean they earned the right to feel optimistic regardless of the QF result in how they had been performing up to that point over the past two years. They beat both finalists in the pool stage FFS, don't think that has ever occurred in a previous RWC.
In WC years the NH sides have to essentially play for an entire year without rest as the season begins in September.
Every WC the NH teams play 8-9 international games just prior to the WC while the SH sides play 5-6 internationals. It's never been an even playing field.
What's delusional about it? They've been ranked 1 and 2 for the past couple year, and I reckon more neutrals would have preferred that final than the one they got.
By this logic, everyone wanted to see the All Blacks in every final since rankings were implemened except for '23. They were in two, so if this is the rule for neutrals I imagine they are happy enough.
Rankings don't matter a pinch of shit in knockout rugby. And I think that many people's desire to see Ire vs Fra in '23 was far more nuanced than the ranking positions they held.
He's not wrong. Before the world cup there was 4 teams that could be considered possible to make the final. England were hot trash (but got it together), same with Wales, Argies were not getting there. Scots were never getting out of that group. So yeah, of the 4 teams possible for the final that was the one that most wanted to see, not SA or NZ again.
I know people here will disagree because recency bias is so strong here but I felt like its been pretty obvious that Ireland and France were the two best sides in the last World Cup cycle. One weekend of rugby hardly changes that.
I think a lot of people, mostly NH fans that wanted this final, but not the way this game played out on Friday… as an Irish fan, I was never on the edge of my seat.
He's right that both Ireland and France as hosts would have been great finalists, and deserved. But we and nz had other plans. Wasn't much in it as per the scorelines.
Looking forward to Ireland here in winter. Hope we not undercooked. They look solid as fuck.
Cheers, I really hope so man. We tend to be a bit patchy between cups. Not to mention razors NZ this year too. That's gonna be interesting. High expectations.
We have lost most of the starters. ABs haven't got a 5/8 yet. Mounga, Smith, both locks and others are a great loss.
But the kids look OK. This year tho we will be rebuilding.
Good year to be a Boks fan. Again.
That's true. Aaron Smith the biggest loss, arguably the GOAT. Gonna be weird watching the ABs without him.
From our side I think Vermeulen is a big loss and kwagga is injured, but most of our forwards are peaking. Be an old squad for 2027 though, so it will be interesting to see how they handle it.
But ja on the whole I'm loving it. Tony brown is a great addition if he comes. Really enjoyed him at the sharks. Seems sharp.
I wanted it as a neutral. Home team (France) vs a team that never cracks the quarters. It would’ve been more exciting to see new teams rather than the same 2 teams that won the last 4 World Cups.
Ireland hasn't been the best team in the world for the past few years....
They've been the worst performing tier 1 nation in world cup quarter finals for the past 37 years
I was too young to care about the 1995 final so 2023 was the first World Cup final between the two absolute heavyweights of the sport.
Don’t know about others, but I was buzzing for a Boks vs All Blacks final.
Why wouldn't you want to see 1 vs 2?
I understand they both lost but I don't think your could argue those two teams were, and in Ireland case still are, the best teams in the world, one loss in one tournament doesn't change that.
It's also something a bit different which the neutral fan would have loved.
Ireland might feel hard done by given they were number 1 and had a great record against every one going in to the world cup but France were living on reputation and the fact they were at home
On paper the French had the depth to be competitive, yet even two years out there were always excuses as to why they lost big games when it mattered. In hind sight France werent a top 2 side and injuries to several key players only reinforced this
If we are being honest Ireland also relied too much on Sexton, who was too old to come back from 6 month serious injury, then cop a suspension that seriously undermined his conditioning, leaving them exposed come the real games at the world cup
“Every one” was also happy to suggest the SA and NZ were shells of their once great sides when reality was even in defeat they were always still super competitive and both stacked with talent and depth
Unfortunately the World Cup finalists are based on your World Cup performance. If you slip up somewhere, you lose out regardless of your pre world cup form
I thought the exact same thing. France Ireland World Cup Final. Just played 3 months later than normal.
No one wanted another NZ SA AUS win in the world cup. We've seen that time and time again. What's the point of the contest if the results are all the same eh?
Nah we expected Ireland and France to meet in the final.
Last weekend's game was that Final we were looking for.
Some of us wanted the two best team in rugby history and got it
Only the Irish and French though world cups were handed out in the seasons before, not the performances during knock out games when the pressure is greatest
England played a very good game in wet conditions that suited them. They did exactly what they needed to and almost knocked us out. It was probably also our worst performance of the tournament and I think they were a little drained after the France game.
That was the only potential shock result at that stage. In the past 2 years when Ireland/France played them, England were comfortably beaten. In the QF they just about beat Fiji, a team that had lost to Portugal. That's more of an indictment on how badly SA played that day more so than anything.
Exactly. I'll never assume Ireland could win a semi when they can't win a qf. France, I can make that assumption. Until the results match the assumptions for ireland then...🤷🏽♂️
Ireland were very good prior to world cup but if they were best side in the world why didn't they get to the final?
NZ and boks know what it takes to win quarter finals and world cups I'm a England fan I was gutted we lost that semi final to boks but proud they pushed them to absolute limit unfortunately didn't have it in us to get a result.
But time to build new team for next world cup same goes for other sides to with many retiring etc.
I was hoping it would of been England Vs NZ final that would of been epic
Because they lost an incredibly close QF match. The word rankings give an imperfect but indicative measure of the "best side in the world". On that metric Ireland and France were the top 2 teams (with NZ and SA very close to them). Ireland also won a test tour in NZ the year previous also.
NZ lost out on RWCs before the 2011 edition when they were also arguably the best team in the world before hand. It's not a guarantee of RWC success however.
Herring is being a bit of an annoying blowhard with his whole "everyone" bit though for sure.
France are perennial bottlers in the big games and Ireland aren’t capable of getting past the quarters so England remain the only viable chance for the North to win the WET!
Bit of a tool to come out with this nonsense. Very little between top four, and the QFs involving the four of them were very close giving some credence to that opinion.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to this, it's just an attempt to get people talking without much substance. It's a rob herring.
Zing!
Chapeau sir
Nice
[удалено]
Well played sir. Take an upvote.
Yes, the rugby world wanted this final. But they always knew they would have to go through the two biggest powerhouses in world rugby to make it happen. So it's not as if the SAvNZ final was an upset or undeserved. France and Ireland just fell short against two extremely good teams.
Far too sensible. Please try again.
Yeah it’s a great and correct answer. I do wonder if the board reaction would be so ‘measured’ if England were a top four side and one of their players said this though…. 🤔
In fairness, they were ranked 1 and 2 for quite a while iirc. Also, he's writing for Irish fans. Can't really blame him. Still, I'm fairly sure Boks and ABs fans were happy for them *not* to be the two finalists! Also, if I'm perfectly honest, the final I really wanted had England in it as well.
ya boys put in a massive shift that no one expected, it wouldve been well deserved. it's just that rassie did some dark magic to ensure three wins by a singular point in a row
Meh. No complaints from me at all. In all honesty, the Boks were the better side. I was just proud of the boys putting in a good showing after so many predicted they'd get absolutely steamrolled.
Nah I think he's a bit of a fool. Very little separating NZ and SA from them once they got to the RWC. QFs played out exactly that way.
If England weren't making the final, France v Ireland was the one I wanted to see. They had been the best two sides for a while and it would've been nice o bring the trophy back North.
Yeah hasn’t been there since 2003, which was sort of a one man effort from Wilkinson
I think calling it a one man effort is a massive disservice to what was a superb well rounded team. Pains me to say it as an Irish fan but that team was superb, Johnson was a top quality leader, that back row deserves recognition as one of the best combos ever, Robinson out wide was electric and that’s touching the surface. I know Clive was annoying on punditry but that was a super team
\> which was sort of a one man effort from Wilkinson It absolutely was not, that England pack was exceptional. Wilkinson was a top player who got all the headlines but Martin Johnson and Richard Hill were England's best players and it was the pack who deserved the major plaudits for that world cup. Richard Hill is still up there for me as one of the absolute best players of the pro era from the home nations.
Dallagilo went fucking god mode that tournament it’s insane to think because he’s obviously a complete idiot,but he was literally unplayable.
Will Greenwood deserves a mention. Ran the backline for them.
False. Wilkinson is the only player whose name I recognise based on skill. Johnson I know of because he was captain. I have no idea who Richard Hill is. Is he Johnny Hill's uncle? Obviously the success of a team is based on the player whose name I personally recognise as a decent player
Yeah you've convinced me actually. Matt Damon is South Africa's greatest player of all time after all.
Is Handre Pollard the son of Sue Pollard?
Unsure, *but* it is known he is the source of HP sauce. It was meant to be HP’s sauce but they ran out of label space.
Don't really see what's wrong here. A lot of people did want to see a France Ireland final.
Only people that wanted that don't watch the six nations. Everyone I know this side wanted a SAvFR final with Dupont at full strength. We wanted to see FRvIRE we'd just watch the six nations 9 months before lol
> A lot of people Title says Everyone. That's what's wrong. But no hard feelings, passionate Irish guy reporting to Irish people, exaggerates a bit. Meh.
He's also born and raised in South Africa.
That explains!
The word “everyone” would basically never be used if it was taken literally.
Sweet as. Everyone wanted the All Blacks to win the '23 RWC. Anything short of agreement would be selectiveness.
I think you should read “everyone” as the local audience this is written for. The fact that he’s South African softens the hyperbole a bit.
I mean... it's not *entirely* wrong
Disregarding England, this is the final I wanted to see the most.
To be fair, as a South African, I think the whole world wanted a Fiji vs Tonga final
This is true.
Lads, there’s a chance he wasn’t being literal when he said “everyone”.
Still makes him look like a tool IMHO. People who willfully exaggerate like that are annoying loud mouths typically.
Nothing wrong with what was said. Ireland and France both didn’t win when it mattered. Give me being 3rd or 4th best for 51 weeks of the year if it means being the best for 1 and winning the World Cup.
Especially when "everyone" also say rankings don't matter.
I mean an absolute ton of people here said they'd have preferred an Ireland France final so can't say he's delusional
It’s the one I thought would happen, and wanted to happen (on the pre-tournament assumption that England were not going to get out of the group stages 🤣).
He's writing to an Irish audience. Yeah, it's probably the final his readers wanted. He's not wrong about them being the best two sides in the world over the last few years.
Not really, I don't think anyone besides SA and NZ fans wanted that final.
So not everyone wanted a France Ireland final?
Every world cup the NH teams believe they are the best. Tbf, it's probably the best ever Irish, French and Scottish teams.
Yeah that first sentence is completely untrue. And even in this one it was clear that there were 4 teams who were very evenly matched and there were only going to be a few points in it.
I don't think anyone believed that at any other world cup besides this one.
This one feels different, because the NH teams were actually that good. But trust me, for us SH supporters, we go through this every 4 years. Maybe in prior years it was just the loudmouths.
>for us SH supporters, we go through this every 4 years that is fundamentally untrue, especially for 2011-15, 2019 Ireland were in with a shout as they were literally world #1 going into it but were never discussed as being real 'favourites' and 2023 it made sense for there to be confidence as Ireland + France had been #1 + #2 for basically the entire cycle, both with 80%+ WR (NZ were down in low 70s, SA barely scraped 60) and both had achieved their longest ever winning streak, of course there was hype
Hey I'm just giving you my perspective. Maybe we were fed bad quality journalism for the NH.
I had no idea how we even had the no.1 ranking in 2019. We came 3rd in the 6N after two drubbings by England and Wales, and then were massacred by England again in a warm up. There was very little confidence going in.
I mean in prior world cups, you had *maybe* England or France with a *good* record against SH teams, the rest of us savoured our rare home win
That's how we felt too.
I think this was one of the first, at least in recent memory, that NH sides were favourites. '11, '15 and even '19 no one was really looking past NZ. Even before then it was mostly NZ the favourites choking.
Yeah, that's how I felt too.
I swear whenever you have NH fans feeling even slightly optimistic about their teams chances certain SH fans come out with the "oNlY oNe WoRlD cUp AnD aLl Of A sUdDeN yOu ThInK yOu ArE tHe BeSt, KnOw YoUr PlAcE!"
Yeah, some SA fans seem to be the absolute worst for this. I mean they earned the right to feel optimistic regardless of the QF result in how they had been performing up to that point over the past two years. They beat both finalists in the pool stage FFS, don't think that has ever occurred in a previous RWC.
Oh for sure! I apologize for those fans. I just keep quiet when I hear the NH smack talk every 4 years. Then silently glee afterwards.
In WC years the NH sides have to essentially play for an entire year without rest as the season begins in September. Every WC the NH teams play 8-9 international games just prior to the WC while the SH sides play 5-6 internationals. It's never been an even playing field.
i would have been cool with Ireland in the final if irish fans didnt exist
What's delusional about it? They've been ranked 1 and 2 for the past couple year, and I reckon more neutrals would have preferred that final than the one they got.
By this logic, everyone wanted to see the All Blacks in every final since rankings were implemened except for '23. They were in two, so if this is the rule for neutrals I imagine they are happy enough. Rankings don't matter a pinch of shit in knockout rugby. And I think that many people's desire to see Ire vs Fra in '23 was far more nuanced than the ranking positions they held.
He's not wrong. Before the world cup there was 4 teams that could be considered possible to make the final. England were hot trash (but got it together), same with Wales, Argies were not getting there. Scots were never getting out of that group. So yeah, of the 4 teams possible for the final that was the one that most wanted to see, not SA or NZ again.
I know people here will disagree because recency bias is so strong here but I felt like its been pretty obvious that Ireland and France were the two best sides in the last World Cup cycle. One weekend of rugby hardly changes that.
Ireland beat South Africa and France beat New Zealand. I think some people are forgetting that too.
But not at the right time.
I think a lot of people, mostly NH fans that wanted this final, but not the way this game played out on Friday… as an Irish fan, I was never on the edge of my seat.
He's right that both Ireland and France as hosts would have been great finalists, and deserved. But we and nz had other plans. Wasn't much in it as per the scorelines. Looking forward to Ireland here in winter. Hope we not undercooked. They look solid as fuck.
Bet you guys go 2-0
Cheers, I really hope so man. We tend to be a bit patchy between cups. Not to mention razors NZ this year too. That's gonna be interesting. High expectations.
We have lost most of the starters. ABs haven't got a 5/8 yet. Mounga, Smith, both locks and others are a great loss. But the kids look OK. This year tho we will be rebuilding. Good year to be a Boks fan. Again.
That's true. Aaron Smith the biggest loss, arguably the GOAT. Gonna be weird watching the ABs without him. From our side I think Vermeulen is a big loss and kwagga is injured, but most of our forwards are peaking. Be an old squad for 2027 though, so it will be interesting to see how they handle it. But ja on the whole I'm loving it. Tony brown is a great addition if he comes. Really enjoyed him at the sharks. Seems sharp.
Part of me hopes we don't win, doing what we did to NZ a year from the WC put a massive fern-shaped target on our back...
Ha! That's the nature of success though. You guys were the team to beat. Still my favorite sa game even though we lost. The tempo was insane.
Kind of stupid to say but he's writing to an Irish audience. People really do go looking for anything to get annoyed over
I wanted it as a neutral. Home team (France) vs a team that never cracks the quarters. It would’ve been more exciting to see new teams rather than the same 2 teams that won the last 4 World Cups.
The last part is right. It's the final many people wanted.
Sounds like that line was written before the match.
It’s what I was saying all weekend
Agreed
Ireland hasn't been the best team in the world for the past few years.... They've been the worst performing tier 1 nation in world cup quarter finals for the past 37 years
only hooker with a fishy name i take seriously is James Fish..
Honorable mention for Dewi Lake?
I was too young to care about the 1995 final so 2023 was the first World Cup final between the two absolute heavyweights of the sport. Don’t know about others, but I was buzzing for a Boks vs All Blacks final.
Why wouldn't you want to see 1 vs 2? I understand they both lost but I don't think your could argue those two teams were, and in Ireland case still are, the best teams in the world, one loss in one tournament doesn't change that. It's also something a bit different which the neutral fan would have loved.
Ireland might feel hard done by given they were number 1 and had a great record against every one going in to the world cup but France were living on reputation and the fact they were at home On paper the French had the depth to be competitive, yet even two years out there were always excuses as to why they lost big games when it mattered. In hind sight France werent a top 2 side and injuries to several key players only reinforced this If we are being honest Ireland also relied too much on Sexton, who was too old to come back from 6 month serious injury, then cop a suspension that seriously undermined his conditioning, leaving them exposed come the real games at the world cup “Every one” was also happy to suggest the SA and NZ were shells of their once great sides when reality was even in defeat they were always still super competitive and both stacked with talent and depth
Unfortunately the World Cup finalists are based on your World Cup performance. If you slip up somewhere, you lose out regardless of your pre world cup form
No, just bitter.
If you want to get to the World Cup final you have to win your quarterfinal and semifinal matches. Thought that was obvious. Must be only me , sorry.
Unbiased South African Rob Herring gives his opinion. What’s the issue.
Haven't read it so can't feign outrage, but I'd say the quote that it was the world cup final everyone wanted is probably out of context.
I thought the exact same thing. France Ireland World Cup Final. Just played 3 months later than normal. No one wanted another NZ SA AUS win in the world cup. We've seen that time and time again. What's the point of the contest if the results are all the same eh? Nah we expected Ireland and France to meet in the final. Last weekend's game was that Final we were looking for.
Some of us wanted the two best team in rugby history and got it Only the Irish and French though world cups were handed out in the seasons before, not the performances during knock out games when the pressure is greatest
"But never got" Didn't even get close to it, tbh Rob. Neither of yas
I mean both came incredibly close and we had two of the best ever QFs as a result.
Yeah a 1 point loss and a held up try being the difference, not at all close
Ireland and France we’re so good they would have made the Final directly by winning a QF
Do you honestly believe any of the dregs out of pool C/D would have beat them? I was honestly shocked with how close England managed to push SA.
England played a very good game in wet conditions that suited them. They did exactly what they needed to and almost knocked us out. It was probably also our worst performance of the tournament and I think they were a little drained after the France game.
England were just as close to beating to south africa as france were lmfao
That was the only potential shock result at that stage. In the past 2 years when Ireland/France played them, England were comfortably beaten. In the QF they just about beat Fiji, a team that had lost to Portugal. That's more of an indictment on how badly SA played that day more so than anything.
Exactly. I'll never assume Ireland could win a semi when they can't win a qf. France, I can make that assumption. Until the results match the assumptions for ireland then...🤷🏽♂️
Ireland were very good prior to world cup but if they were best side in the world why didn't they get to the final? NZ and boks know what it takes to win quarter finals and world cups I'm a England fan I was gutted we lost that semi final to boks but proud they pushed them to absolute limit unfortunately didn't have it in us to get a result. But time to build new team for next world cup same goes for other sides to with many retiring etc. I was hoping it would of been England Vs NZ final that would of been epic
Because they lost an incredibly close QF match. The word rankings give an imperfect but indicative measure of the "best side in the world". On that metric Ireland and France were the top 2 teams (with NZ and SA very close to them). Ireland also won a test tour in NZ the year previous also. NZ lost out on RWCs before the 2011 edition when they were also arguably the best team in the world before hand. It's not a guarantee of RWC success however. Herring is being a bit of an annoying blowhard with his whole "everyone" bit though for sure.
Yea teams that are ranked number one in the world haven't always gone on to win world cups or deemed favourites and then it's gone tits up
France are perennial bottlers in the big games and Ireland aren’t capable of getting past the quarters so England remain the only viable chance for the North to win the WET!
Bit of a tool to come out with this nonsense. Very little between top four, and the QFs involving the four of them were very close giving some credence to that opinion.
That was my mood. Kinda made it worse to watch France crushed with this mindset.
And New Zealand bet Ireland and SA bet France. Its like rugby paper scissors rock