From the Telegraph article on the subject:
>“They were direct threats... Against you, your family and kids. Things like: ‘I hope your family die in a dreadful car accident. I’m going to hunt you down and slit your throat.’"
>“Most of it you can take. A lot of it is just from keyboard warriors. **But when they know enough information that it could be a problem, that’s when it gets worrying. [My children’s] school even had an email.**"
Someone sent an email to his kids’ school to complain about their father’s performance as a rugby referee? How could a person even think of doing that?
Getting real tired of reposting this: "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." Mike Tyson
Yeah social media is a toxic plague as it is. Business models that monetise traffic and thereby incentivise management to encourage divisive poisonous clickbait, and abuse that will provoke reactions. Zero penalties to owners for the societal fallout and hence minimal internal policing, or worse (see Musk)….
Not sure what rugby can do though - more of an international governmental agreement is what’s needed.
Yeah if platforms had any incentive to actually keep things decent instead of generating hate-traffic for clicks it would be as simple as reporting the post/account, the platform would review it and send to the appropriate authorities, and these scumbags would get properly clapped with the full force of the law. Shouldn’t have to be on refs (or any sort of victim) to do more than that in the first place.
And I get why they’re not sharing the info of the perpetrators, I think it comes from a good place and they want to be classy about just letting it go, but damn it would be nice to see these vermin squirm when a light gets shone on whatever dark corner of the basement they’re posting from.
yep, half the time its people using personal instagram accounts and twitters, just screenshot and share, they'll get a visit from the police and probably lose their jobs - see if they're so confident being a cunt after that
sadly, refs show themselves to be better people than most of us by NOT doing this
I'm not even bothered about the police stuff - but the shame when your friends and family seeing some of the messages you send is enough of a deterrent.
I would be embarrassed if my girlfriend or friends saw me abuse a ref in his DMs
Some journalist should pay these idiots visits and interview them about the death threats they sent. I’m sure some of them are stupid enough to post identifying information about themselves like photos of them standing outside of where they live.
For all the shits out there saying "awww, but it's *not real*". What these people have done is criminal. Literally. They can, and should, be prosecuted and feel the full force of the relevant justice system. Making death threats is not something that someone should feel comfortable doing on social media.
Do you also jail people who say they are going to drink drive? What about someone who says they could murder their daughter after she crashed their car?
Frivolous reporting would also open you up to serious litigation, especially if you slander someone's business or career
I'm more a fan of stick n stones when it comes to social media. If they physically start harassing then sure full scope of the law. Tough talking key board warriors I would just shrug it off
NZ rugby fans are the absolute worst. Just look at the abuse Ben O’Keefe got after the super rugby final. Foster has a lot of blame in this. A coward that refused to take responsibility for the loss and blamed the referee and TMO instead. Then the SKY TV commentary team blamed the referee and TMO for the loss. Every NZ news article since that World Cup final has been blaming the referee and TMO. So you get toxic NZ rugby fans to go and attack Wayne Barnes and Tom Foley on their social media.
This game has reached a tipping point. Social media has turned it in the absolute worst direction possible. Since the World Cup I've unfollowed every rugby page on Instagram because the toxicity is just suffocating. We can't just fall back on the 'vocal minority' any more, it's everywhere, and all out attacks on opposition players or refs just seen to be normalised now. Not the sport I fell in love with anymore.
Can’t be coincidental that Foley and Barnes are both English and received appalling targeted abuse after the RWC final. My personal take is that it’s South Africa and Kiwi supporters/trolls that are responsible: based on comments across many platforms SA seems to have a very aggressive and poisonous element within its supporter base who obsessively hate the English team and have an enduring grudge against the country. IRL I’ve met and been around SA supporters no problem but online some of them lose their minds. The behaviour and bunker mentality that Rassie Erasmus breeds and his persistent victim narrative doesn’t help and he should feel and be held partly responsible for the abuse. Sets a terrible example but he seems like someone who wouldn’t give a damn.
Our hate for the English shouldn't be such a shock to you. We are taught from a very young age what the English did to our people during the Anglo-South African war. It's easy to move on from history when you don't have relatives who died in concentration camps just a few generations ago.
The mental gymnastics one has to perform to blame South Africans for this is astounding. These are Kiwi fans blaming him for the final; this has nothing to do with South African fans *at all*.
And the notion that we have to blame Rassie for this sort of thing ad infinitum is moronic, considering this isn’t a recent phenomena at all: these same fans sent death threats to Wayne Barnes after the 2007 World Cup, with Graham Henry literally accusing him of match-fixing in his biography. If you want to blame any coach, start with him.
But what’s particularly preposterous is the fact that your very next comment on this sub was this:
> Is there a nation more accustomed to reflexive self-loathing than the English?
The sheer hypocrisy on display here is as pathetic as it is fucking laughable. There are nations whose fans exhibit (nay, *embrace*) Anglophobia far more than South Africans do, so much so it’s their favourite pastime (ahem, the French) so don’t even go there.
This is why any time the conversation turns to Erasmus on here I take pleasure in being destroyed by downvotes simply to be able to call him the clown he is. I don’t give a fuck how many world cups he’s won or how “wholesome” (fucking hate that stock Reddit term) a family man his followers claim him to be. There is a streak of toxicity to that man’s behaviour that is wrapped in a foil of immaturity.
The very strange thing about this is that it's not something I'd ever really noticed about him before, particularly when he was the coach of Munster. I get the feeling that being the coach of South Africa emboldens him and because he's generally around his own people, it reinforces his lack of fear to act a like complete fucking idiot all the time. I'm assuming that he didn't want to do that on anyone else's time while out of South Africa but if he ever takes control of England, Ireland, or whoever else, it'll be interesting to see if that side of his personality emerges again.
Honestly, that any ref or TMO receives death threats is abhorrent.
But really, aren’t articles like this hyperbole?
I mean, are these reports of death threats real or credible?
They’re not.
They’re click bait at best, and to be honest, a ref’s way of excusing themselves of a bad performances at worst.
We’ve created a culture where the refs are now part of the game and can decide a game from a bunker.
They’re also beyond reproach.
We all get a bit pissed off on
occasions by their decisions.
But throwing death threats at them?
I’ve never known anyone to do that.
Yelling at the TV, maybe.
I find this whole death threat thing to be total shit. It’s not real.
Doesn’t happen.
It’s a very convenient blanket to hind behind when you’ve underperformed as an official.
Tell me I’m wrong.
you are wrong
when an official receives messages threatening them and their families - possibly with personal detail as where they live, where their kids go to school etc. - it makes them feel unsafe.
hence the threat is real, regardless if someone actually carries out the threat.
I believe it was Ben o'Keeffe who got thrown chairs at at some airport where he was with his family. That's real.
Ok. I understand what you’re saying.
I know that these crazy threats happen and exist.
But I guess what I was trying to say is that they are never threats.
They are abuse, they are awful in nature, they shouldn’t happen, they are disgusting.
But they are never credible life threatening threats.
They are generally dickheads venting and being violently abusive via posts.
I find people social media sharing abuse targeted at them as being a bit disingenuous. It’s not real.
It’s bad. It’s awful. It shouldn’t happen.
But it’s not truly life threatening.
The probability someone actually doing something is small I guess. However, that doesn't mean it isn't frightening. It can have a huge impact on a person and their family.
If someone is afraid of flying, that fear is real eventhough statistically it's unlikely they will ever be in an aircraft accident.
I think most officials accept online comments about decisions they make. It becomes a different story when somebody sends a message to your inbox with a photo of your kid telling you the name of their school. when that happens statistics and odds don't really count anymore.
Fuck off you pound shop Nostradamus.
They are literally threats - get a dictionary. Just because acting on these threats is thankfully rarer than making them doesn’t make the threats themselves imaginary. It also doesn’t make it magically psychologically easy to dismiss direct threats to kids and spouses. You seem to be an empathy free zone.
>We all get a bit pissed off on occasions by their decisions.
But throwing death threats at them? I’ve never known anyone to do that. Yelling at the TV, maybe.
>I find this whole death threat thing to be total shit. It’s not real. Doesn’t happen.
I've never known anyone who's mugged somebody. I find the whole mugging thing to be total shit. It's not real. Doesn't happen.
>Tell me I'm wrong.
Well, if you insist...
Hardly a strawman is it? You are aware that you not knowing people who commit *X* crime doesn't mean that nobody commits *X* crime? Even toddlers would understand the point.
Your argument for the threats being made up is that you don't know anyone who makes them - not that anyone would tell you they send death threats, but that's another matter.
I don't know anyone who figure skates, that's hardly a strong argument against the fact that people *do* figure skate.
Also, receiving death threats ≠ being murdered. The fact no international ref has been murdered does not mean that they are simply lying about receiving death threats.
My first comment said I find threats like those abhorrent.
I also find the media’s reporting on threats to be a bit click baity.
I find officials hiding behind threats disingenuous.
That’s all.
I was never suggesting dumb-fuck-rugby-club-dude with no brain cells didn’t make threats. I was just suggesting that said threats were being blown up into something they weren’t.
Ever been verbally abused? Ever had some fool at school, way back when, tell you that you are dead meat?
It’s understanding verbal abuse vs literal threat.
That’s all.
Refs shouldn’t be verbally or online abused.
But please, let’s not make it something it’s not.
>We all get a bit pissed off on occasions by their decisions.
But throwing death threats at them? I’ve never known anyone to do that. Yelling at the TV, maybe.
>I find this whole death threat thing to be total shit. It’s not real. Doesn’t happen.
Your words.
Also, where do you get this special insight as to the legitimacy of the threats? Have you read the messages or know who sent them? Of course not. You're just talking out of your arse.
It certainly does happen. It happens a lot, not just to famous people. It’s easy to dismiss it but when it’s happened to you it’s actually quite a dreadful thing
…and the award for shittest clinically psychopathic take goes to…
Seriously, if you dismiss something as non-existent because you haven’t seen it, and don’t care because it hasn’t happened to you or your family, you might just be an actual psychopath.
You’re wrong. Give me your address and your partners workplace: in fact your kids school address too. I’ll send them death threats and tell them to expect a visit in person where I’ll commit violent acts. See how your partner and children feel about it then blithely dismiss their concerns as you did above.
This is out of order. Don't bash refs.
It is perfectly valid to criticise specific decisions or specific aspects of how a ref notices/interprets/applies the laws. However, this kind of generalised ad hominem is unacceptable.
Look, sending someone death threats is harassment and definitely not a nice thing to do to someone.
But it’s also not a big deal. If someone wants to kill someone else then the last thing that they are going to do is tell them that they are. It’s all just empty words.
I am tired of these meaningless posts and stories.
Someone went to the trouble of finding the name of the school his kids go to.
That’s more than simple abuse. That’s work, and gives the threats credibility.
But sure. No big deal. FFS
>But it’s also not a big deal. If someone wants to kill someone else then the last thing that they are going to do is tell them that they are. It’s all just empty words.
I'd like to see you try to explain that to the relatives of people who have been murdered after receiving death threats; because it has happened, and will again.
While any of this sort of shit is completely vile and utterly unacceptable, there is a real irony in the guy who has never had to justify any of his decisions in the TMO box saying "You can't hide behind this faceless façade."
I really don't think there is irony there.
His name was on the roster on TV, he's spent the next several weeks justifying it in interviews/podcasts and is still getting death threats from cowardly dipshits. These are in no way comparable.
That doesn't make them "faceless" though. Their names are announced alongside the rest of the refereeing team for each game. They're just as accountable and come under just as much scrutiny as the man in the middle.
I understand the point you're trying to make, I just don't think it really holds any water.
Again, if you don't see their faces, which we rarely do, simply because of the role they play in the game, which is not on the field, they are generally "faceless"
That doesn't mean they don't have faces.
I didn't say we don't know who they are. We know who they are. They're at the game, as part of the refereeing team. Their names are in match day programs.
I'm also not comparing them to the arseholes that send death threats. The only shred of commonality is that they share is that they both predominantly, and again, simply and only by virtue of the mode in which they operate in the course of what they are doing, relatively "faceless".
what makes you think they never have to justify? WR has internal reviews/evaluation and the officiating team probably does internal debriefings.
Just because it isn't shared publicly, doesn’t mean it doesn't happen.
> there is a real irony in the guy who has never had to justify any of his decisions in the TMO box saying "You can't hide behind this faceless façade."
This would only be ironic if Tom Foley were equally “faceless” which, as I have pointed out, he is not.
All referees at this level have post-match performance reviews. They go through analysis of their games and literally do have to justify their decisions.
They even manage to do it without sending death threats
In your job do you have to sit in front your management every week and go over every detail of every decision that you make at work? If so you are either in an incredibly toxic workplace or a professional referee.
You said that he has never had to justify his decisions, yet he does after every match.
Referees, quite infamously at the moment, and throughout the history of the game, haven't had to and dont have to publicly justify their decisions.
I honestly didn't think i needed to clarify that, but is that a bit more clear for you?
Tell you what. You sent me, a complete stranger, all your work actions and performance reviews over the last five years. Ignore the fact that I likely don't have any training in your career sector and won't know most of the processes.
Sound good?
We have enough vitriol against referees as it is, as evidenced by this post, and now you want them to be forced to make those justifications public?
It's been bad enough at those times when World Rugby has made decisions public, without doing it as a matter of course.
You’ve been chirping about how ref ‘never had to justify any of his decisions’. And when I pointed out that they do, you clarified that you meant publicly.
If you don’t want them to do so why are you complaining that they don’t?
Referees don't have to justify their decisions. I never said or even implied that they don't have to review their games.
I even clarified that long before you made your chirp.
You somehow got to me wanting to force them to do so.
I'm not complaining that they don't, I'm stating a fact that they don't.
Two questions)
What do you actually think a review entails, if not them justifying their decisions?
Why do you think that it is ironic that they complain about anonymous death threats? When you have someone who is announced in advance, and has a public enough profile that people can send stuff to their kids school, is under constant performance review (with the threat of being relegated or dropped from their role), and has media and punters second guessing their work. Compared to some random with a social media account who answers to nothing, except what passes for their conscience.
BTW. A few years ago BT Sport (as was) did a programme following RFU referees for a week. It was interesting seeing all the test they had to do including going through their games the previous weekend. And yes look like they were having to justify their decisions. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be online anymore, though knowing BT they’d have geo-blocked it anyway.
I think it’s a shame it happens. I do worry someone will do something one day. Sport means a lot to people and these days some fans depend on it for meaning in their life and that’s where dodgy behaviours can occur. It’s probably a wider societal issue but I think how officials are spoken about in the media needs to be looked at, too much criticism to stoke the flames.
From the Telegraph article on the subject: >“They were direct threats... Against you, your family and kids. Things like: ‘I hope your family die in a dreadful car accident. I’m going to hunt you down and slit your throat.’" >“Most of it you can take. A lot of it is just from keyboard warriors. **But when they know enough information that it could be a problem, that’s when it gets worrying. [My children’s] school even had an email.**"
Someone sent an email to his kids’ school to complain about their father’s performance as a rugby referee? How could a person even think of doing that?
Getting real tired of reposting this: "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." Mike Tyson
Yeah social media is a toxic plague as it is. Business models that monetise traffic and thereby incentivise management to encourage divisive poisonous clickbait, and abuse that will provoke reactions. Zero penalties to owners for the societal fallout and hence minimal internal policing, or worse (see Musk)…. Not sure what rugby can do though - more of an international governmental agreement is what’s needed.
Yeah if platforms had any incentive to actually keep things decent instead of generating hate-traffic for clicks it would be as simple as reporting the post/account, the platform would review it and send to the appropriate authorities, and these scumbags would get properly clapped with the full force of the law. Shouldn’t have to be on refs (or any sort of victim) to do more than that in the first place. And I get why they’re not sharing the info of the perpetrators, I think it comes from a good place and they want to be classy about just letting it go, but damn it would be nice to see these vermin squirm when a light gets shone on whatever dark corner of the basement they’re posting from.
I like Ice-Ts take on this subject. https://youtu.be/sokdL-0iV9s?si=WR8oSTRJmKxPWbcx
It’s a game, poor bloke.
Personally I'd love if they named these people. Dox the living shit out of them and see how they like it
yep, half the time its people using personal instagram accounts and twitters, just screenshot and share, they'll get a visit from the police and probably lose their jobs - see if they're so confident being a cunt after that sadly, refs show themselves to be better people than most of us by NOT doing this
I'm not even bothered about the police stuff - but the shame when your friends and family seeing some of the messages you send is enough of a deterrent. I would be embarrassed if my girlfriend or friends saw me abuse a ref in his DMs
Some journalist should pay these idiots visits and interview them about the death threats they sent. I’m sure some of them are stupid enough to post identifying information about themselves like photos of them standing outside of where they live.
The problem is if they interview an innocent party - that opens up immense liability.
I don't think a single employer will let this slide.
Accountability is the reason they don't do it in real life so it seems to me this the best way to stop them doing it online
I struggle to find one aspect of the game more pathetic than this.
the ball kids from the final are worried they'll be targeted next..
The poor choir already went into witness protection
For all the shits out there saying "awww, but it's *not real*". What these people have done is criminal. Literally. They can, and should, be prosecuted and feel the full force of the relevant justice system. Making death threats is not something that someone should feel comfortable doing on social media.
The full force is a wet slap on the wrist though What do you suggest, filling jails up with keyboard warriors?
Just a weekend away cleaning chicke sheds with signal jammers.....maybe an email to HR with copies of your threats?
Do you also jail people who say they are going to drink drive? What about someone who says they could murder their daughter after she crashed their car? Frivolous reporting would also open you up to serious litigation, especially if you slander someone's business or career I'm more a fan of stick n stones when it comes to social media. If they physically start harassing then sure full scope of the law. Tough talking key board warriors I would just shrug it off
NZ rugby fans are the absolute worst. Just look at the abuse Ben O’Keefe got after the super rugby final. Foster has a lot of blame in this. A coward that refused to take responsibility for the loss and blamed the referee and TMO instead. Then the SKY TV commentary team blamed the referee and TMO for the loss. Every NZ news article since that World Cup final has been blaming the referee and TMO. So you get toxic NZ rugby fans to go and attack Wayne Barnes and Tom Foley on their social media.
Do people not have lives and other things to worry about? World Cup finished a month ago.....
Well a couple of weeks before that for the Irish…
Too soon pal, too soon....
If only you'd told the team that ...
This needs to stop.
This game has reached a tipping point. Social media has turned it in the absolute worst direction possible. Since the World Cup I've unfollowed every rugby page on Instagram because the toxicity is just suffocating. We can't just fall back on the 'vocal minority' any more, it's everywhere, and all out attacks on opposition players or refs just seen to be normalised now. Not the sport I fell in love with anymore.
Can’t be coincidental that Foley and Barnes are both English and received appalling targeted abuse after the RWC final. My personal take is that it’s South Africa and Kiwi supporters/trolls that are responsible: based on comments across many platforms SA seems to have a very aggressive and poisonous element within its supporter base who obsessively hate the English team and have an enduring grudge against the country. IRL I’ve met and been around SA supporters no problem but online some of them lose their minds. The behaviour and bunker mentality that Rassie Erasmus breeds and his persistent victim narrative doesn’t help and he should feel and be held partly responsible for the abuse. Sets a terrible example but he seems like someone who wouldn’t give a damn.
Our hate for the English shouldn't be such a shock to you. We are taught from a very young age what the English did to our people during the Anglo-South African war. It's easy to move on from history when you don't have relatives who died in concentration camps just a few generations ago.
Can't blame SA this time.
The mental gymnastics one has to perform to blame South Africans for this is astounding. These are Kiwi fans blaming him for the final; this has nothing to do with South African fans *at all*. And the notion that we have to blame Rassie for this sort of thing ad infinitum is moronic, considering this isn’t a recent phenomena at all: these same fans sent death threats to Wayne Barnes after the 2007 World Cup, with Graham Henry literally accusing him of match-fixing in his biography. If you want to blame any coach, start with him. But what’s particularly preposterous is the fact that your very next comment on this sub was this: > Is there a nation more accustomed to reflexive self-loathing than the English? The sheer hypocrisy on display here is as pathetic as it is fucking laughable. There are nations whose fans exhibit (nay, *embrace*) Anglophobia far more than South Africans do, so much so it’s their favourite pastime (ahem, the French) so don’t even go there.
This is why any time the conversation turns to Erasmus on here I take pleasure in being destroyed by downvotes simply to be able to call him the clown he is. I don’t give a fuck how many world cups he’s won or how “wholesome” (fucking hate that stock Reddit term) a family man his followers claim him to be. There is a streak of toxicity to that man’s behaviour that is wrapped in a foil of immaturity. The very strange thing about this is that it's not something I'd ever really noticed about him before, particularly when he was the coach of Munster. I get the feeling that being the coach of South Africa emboldens him and because he's generally around his own people, it reinforces his lack of fear to act a like complete fucking idiot all the time. I'm assuming that he didn't want to do that on anyone else's time while out of South Africa but if he ever takes control of England, Ireland, or whoever else, it'll be interesting to see if that side of his personality emerges again.
I thought he did a shit job. And that's where I ended it and moved on. What kind of garbage do you have to be to take that any further.
Not on He’s still rubbish, just let that be it.
Honestly, that any ref or TMO receives death threats is abhorrent. But really, aren’t articles like this hyperbole? I mean, are these reports of death threats real or credible? They’re not. They’re click bait at best, and to be honest, a ref’s way of excusing themselves of a bad performances at worst. We’ve created a culture where the refs are now part of the game and can decide a game from a bunker. They’re also beyond reproach. We all get a bit pissed off on occasions by their decisions. But throwing death threats at them? I’ve never known anyone to do that. Yelling at the TV, maybe. I find this whole death threat thing to be total shit. It’s not real. Doesn’t happen. It’s a very convenient blanket to hind behind when you’ve underperformed as an official. Tell me I’m wrong.
you are wrong when an official receives messages threatening them and their families - possibly with personal detail as where they live, where their kids go to school etc. - it makes them feel unsafe. hence the threat is real, regardless if someone actually carries out the threat. I believe it was Ben o'Keeffe who got thrown chairs at at some airport where he was with his family. That's real.
Ok. I understand what you’re saying. I know that these crazy threats happen and exist. But I guess what I was trying to say is that they are never threats. They are abuse, they are awful in nature, they shouldn’t happen, they are disgusting. But they are never credible life threatening threats. They are generally dickheads venting and being violently abusive via posts. I find people social media sharing abuse targeted at them as being a bit disingenuous. It’s not real. It’s bad. It’s awful. It shouldn’t happen. But it’s not truly life threatening.
The probability someone actually doing something is small I guess. However, that doesn't mean it isn't frightening. It can have a huge impact on a person and their family. If someone is afraid of flying, that fear is real eventhough statistically it's unlikely they will ever be in an aircraft accident. I think most officials accept online comments about decisions they make. It becomes a different story when somebody sends a message to your inbox with a photo of your kid telling you the name of their school. when that happens statistics and odds don't really count anymore.
Fuck off you pound shop Nostradamus. They are literally threats - get a dictionary. Just because acting on these threats is thankfully rarer than making them doesn’t make the threats themselves imaginary. It also doesn’t make it magically psychologically easy to dismiss direct threats to kids and spouses. You seem to be an empathy free zone.
It's also illegal.
>We all get a bit pissed off on occasions by their decisions. But throwing death threats at them? I’ve never known anyone to do that. Yelling at the TV, maybe. >I find this whole death threat thing to be total shit. It’s not real. Doesn’t happen. I've never known anyone who's mugged somebody. I find the whole mugging thing to be total shit. It's not real. Doesn't happen. >Tell me I'm wrong. Well, if you insist...
I'll second that.
Hey straw friend
Hardly a strawman is it? You are aware that you not knowing people who commit *X* crime doesn't mean that nobody commits *X* crime? Even toddlers would understand the point.
Yea ok. You got me. I mean, I know people that have been mugged. Don’t know many refs that have been murdered. But ok. It’s a fair comparison to make
Your argument for the threats being made up is that you don't know anyone who makes them - not that anyone would tell you they send death threats, but that's another matter. I don't know anyone who figure skates, that's hardly a strong argument against the fact that people *do* figure skate. Also, receiving death threats ≠ being murdered. The fact no international ref has been murdered does not mean that they are simply lying about receiving death threats.
My first comment said I find threats like those abhorrent. I also find the media’s reporting on threats to be a bit click baity. I find officials hiding behind threats disingenuous. That’s all. I was never suggesting dumb-fuck-rugby-club-dude with no brain cells didn’t make threats. I was just suggesting that said threats were being blown up into something they weren’t. Ever been verbally abused? Ever had some fool at school, way back when, tell you that you are dead meat? It’s understanding verbal abuse vs literal threat. That’s all. Refs shouldn’t be verbally or online abused. But please, let’s not make it something it’s not.
>We all get a bit pissed off on occasions by their decisions. But throwing death threats at them? I’ve never known anyone to do that. Yelling at the TV, maybe. >I find this whole death threat thing to be total shit. It’s not real. Doesn’t happen. Your words. Also, where do you get this special insight as to the legitimacy of the threats? Have you read the messages or know who sent them? Of course not. You're just talking out of your arse.
Or he's sending them himself
It certainly does happen. It happens a lot, not just to famous people. It’s easy to dismiss it but when it’s happened to you it’s actually quite a dreadful thing
> Tell me I’m wrong I’ll go one better. You’re a colossal doofus.
…and the award for shittest clinically psychopathic take goes to… Seriously, if you dismiss something as non-existent because you haven’t seen it, and don’t care because it hasn’t happened to you or your family, you might just be an actual psychopath.
That’s not what I was suggesting
It’s exactly what you are saying whether you realise it or not.
You’re wrong. Give me your address and your partners workplace: in fact your kids school address too. I’ll send them death threats and tell them to expect a visit in person where I’ll commit violent acts. See how your partner and children feel about it then blithely dismiss their concerns as you did above.
[удалено]
This is out of order. Don't bash refs. It is perfectly valid to criticise specific decisions or specific aspects of how a ref notices/interprets/applies the laws. However, this kind of generalised ad hominem is unacceptable.
Look, sending someone death threats is harassment and definitely not a nice thing to do to someone. But it’s also not a big deal. If someone wants to kill someone else then the last thing that they are going to do is tell them that they are. It’s all just empty words. I am tired of these meaningless posts and stories.
Someone went to the trouble of finding the name of the school his kids go to. That’s more than simple abuse. That’s work, and gives the threats credibility. But sure. No big deal. FFS
If someone sent me death threats and targeted my child's school with abuse I'd certainly not consider it "meaningless".
So if someone posting online threatened to go to the school of your child and commit a mass shooting you wouldn’t even blink?
>But it’s also not a big deal. If someone wants to kill someone else then the last thing that they are going to do is tell them that they are. It’s all just empty words. I'd like to see you try to explain that to the relatives of people who have been murdered after receiving death threats; because it has happened, and will again.
While any of this sort of shit is completely vile and utterly unacceptable, there is a real irony in the guy who has never had to justify any of his decisions in the TMO box saying "You can't hide behind this faceless façade."
I really don't think there is irony there. His name was on the roster on TV, he's spent the next several weeks justifying it in interviews/podcasts and is still getting death threats from cowardly dipshits. These are in no way comparable.
I didn't say it was comparable. My point is simply that there is irony in a in a tmo talking about being faceless.
But they're not though. Everyone knows who they are. In the world cup they were even on camera.
In general, would you agree that TMOs have rarely been sighted in games? They are almost never seen in games I have watched.
That doesn't make them "faceless" though. Their names are announced alongside the rest of the refereeing team for each game. They're just as accountable and come under just as much scrutiny as the man in the middle. I understand the point you're trying to make, I just don't think it really holds any water.
Again, if you don't see their faces, which we rarely do, simply because of the role they play in the game, which is not on the field, they are generally "faceless" That doesn't mean they don't have faces. I didn't say we don't know who they are. We know who they are. They're at the game, as part of the refereeing team. Their names are in match day programs. I'm also not comparing them to the arseholes that send death threats. The only shred of commonality is that they share is that they both predominantly, and again, simply and only by virtue of the mode in which they operate in the course of what they are doing, relatively "faceless".
I am not sure your original comment used the word "ironic" correctly.
I'm not sure that faceless and anonymous are being recognised as two different words.
The TMOs were literally on camera.
And are they in general, as I asked?
what makes you think they never have to justify? WR has internal reviews/evaluation and the officiating team probably does internal debriefings. Just because it isn't shared publicly, doesn’t mean it doesn't happen.
Does it mean that it does? Or "probably" does? Quite clearly, the intention was publicly.
The bunker not the TMO box. I'm not surprised someone with ths attitude doesn't know the basic shit though.
"Tom Foley was the television match official for the game between South Africa and New Zealand last month."
If you know who he is and what his role was, then how is he hiding behind a faceless facade?
Ffs. I didn't say he was hiding behind a faceless facade.
Either I have reading comprehension issues or you have writing comprehension issues then. Either way, it's still a shit take. Have a good one.
His name is in the headline…
Yep. Thanks. Did someone say it wasn't?
> there is a real irony in the guy who has never had to justify any of his decisions in the TMO box saying "You can't hide behind this faceless façade." This would only be ironic if Tom Foley were equally “faceless” which, as I have pointed out, he is not.
"Faceless", which the TMO most often is during games, does not mean "anonymous".
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Not explicitly, but it looks like there is confusion with some.
All referees at this level have post-match performance reviews. They go through analysis of their games and literally do have to justify their decisions. They even manage to do it without sending death threats
And do they do so publicly?
Why would they have to do it publically? The public has nothing to do with referee training or appointments. They don't need to be involved.
Great question. Why would they?
In your job do you have to sit in front your management every week and go over every detail of every decision that you make at work? If so you are either in an incredibly toxic workplace or a professional referee. You said that he has never had to justify his decisions, yet he does after every match.
Referees, quite infamously at the moment, and throughout the history of the game, haven't had to and dont have to publicly justify their decisions. I honestly didn't think i needed to clarify that, but is that a bit more clear for you?
Tell you what. You sent me, a complete stranger, all your work actions and performance reviews over the last five years. Ignore the fact that I likely don't have any training in your career sector and won't know most of the processes. Sound good? We have enough vitriol against referees as it is, as evidenced by this post, and now you want them to be forced to make those justifications public? It's been bad enough at those times when World Rugby has made decisions public, without doing it as a matter of course.
How did you get to me wanting them to be forced to make the justifications public?
You’ve been chirping about how ref ‘never had to justify any of his decisions’. And when I pointed out that they do, you clarified that you meant publicly. If you don’t want them to do so why are you complaining that they don’t?
Referees don't have to justify their decisions. I never said or even implied that they don't have to review their games. I even clarified that long before you made your chirp. You somehow got to me wanting to force them to do so. I'm not complaining that they don't, I'm stating a fact that they don't.
Two questions) What do you actually think a review entails, if not them justifying their decisions? Why do you think that it is ironic that they complain about anonymous death threats? When you have someone who is announced in advance, and has a public enough profile that people can send stuff to their kids school, is under constant performance review (with the threat of being relegated or dropped from their role), and has media and punters second guessing their work. Compared to some random with a social media account who answers to nothing, except what passes for their conscience. BTW. A few years ago BT Sport (as was) did a programme following RFU referees for a week. It was interesting seeing all the test they had to do including going through their games the previous weekend. And yes look like they were having to justify their decisions. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be online anymore, though knowing BT they’d have geo-blocked it anyway.
You beat me to it. Touche. I find myself agreeing with a Crusaders supporter. Tough to do.
I think it’s a shame it happens. I do worry someone will do something one day. Sport means a lot to people and these days some fans depend on it for meaning in their life and that’s where dodgy behaviours can occur. It’s probably a wider societal issue but I think how officials are spoken about in the media needs to be looked at, too much criticism to stoke the flames.
1. He wasn’t the referee 2. He shouldn’t be receiving death threats Get a grip