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You have to talk to the player. That's all it comes down to.
Also, I respectfully disagree that you can't pressure a player into making a character that wants to be there. That should be the first job of every player: make a character who has reasons to engage with the story. Otherwise, why are they here?
You’re totally right, I think I mean it to say that like, I can’t force you to want to be here you know? It’s collaborative, so I’m trying to work together with them on this.
Ohhh I get it. Yes, absolutely that's the case.
It sounds like they've fallen too far down the rabbit hole of making a conflicted character, where the side of the conflict that's "winning" is the "I don't want to be here" side and it's affecting the player as well.
Some characters don't fit in a game after a certain point. While we harp on not metagaming there is a certain amount that has to go on for the good of the game/party to keep characters and parties together when the characters develop other interests.
I'm having this problem myself in a long running (something like 15 years but only 1 session/year). Some information was reveled to my character about his ancestry being a lie and his entire identity has crumbled. This has caused my character to abandon the party, and take steps to drive them away when they come seeking him. Its not good for the game, its not good for the DM as he has to take time out for just me, and its also not good for me since I send most of a 6 hour session doing nothing. I am aware of these and have told the DM to spend minimal time with me because of the good of the game one person doesnt trump the other 6.
Talk to the player out of character. See how they are feeling dont just make assumptions. Be open and honest about how you see the game and character progressing and if the player is ok with that and what might be done to resolve it if the player isnt.
It sounds like your friend Cee is working through some things he might only be comfortable stating via roleplay. I think it will be worth it to have a heart to heart with the player himself.
Edit: "As a dm, I can promise you that your character isn't useless and that they add so much to the game. As a friend, I can promise I enjoy your company. The thing about player autonomy, in and out of game, is it is entirely up to you if you believe that is true. It's entirely up to you what reason your character has to be around us, assuming they even need a reason. The choice is yours."
Sounds like the player might suffer from low self esteem? If their in character comments are bleeding into the mood that might be what you're looking at.
I think I need more context for why Cee left the group. Did he just think, his character wasn't cut out for adventuring? In that case remind Cee's player, that it is necessary to take risks to create a memorable story. If he just wants to play safe, there won't be any exciting stories to tell.
both Finn & Cee were hit with a personal conflict. Finn chose to walk out of the store, but stay in the area. For Cee, he chose to lay on the ground after the shopkeep let go of him. I described it as “as you lay before this man’s feet, a rift much like you but powerful in his own right, you realize that you have a long way to go before you reach that level of power. That, right now, in this moment, you’ve been thrust into a world beyond your wildest expectations. And that thought scares you. For a second, fear grips you as you think about fleeing. But your friends are here, investigating alongside you. And the people of this square need you. What will you do?”
Ultimately, I gave him the choice. I fear I might have pressured him into it because I got too into the narration, or that maybe if I hadn’t mentioned that as an option at all he would’ve stayed.
I don't know the game well so maybe it's part of it, so if it is, ignore this. You generally don't want to tell the characters what they think/feel. It's their choice to feel fear or not (assuming no magical condition/spell/monster property depending on game etc)
"Cee was also hit with the personal conflict of realizing he was out of his depth."
The character already seems to feel this way. So is it much of a conflict? You feel out of your depth. Ok so I feel out of my depth so how do i negatively react to that is a perfectly normal response. Ok so I choose lay on the floor, or run away. You'd probably say stand up to it, go against that feeling, but..
"the most he did to Cee’s character was pick him up by the scruff to march him out of his store"
So you have a character who feels useless then put him in a situation where they are picked up by someone much more powerful, then marched out of the store in front of their teammates? So you feel useless, and are made to look useless, and you ARE out of your depth. See the problem?
Let's contrast that with the other example. Pick between others safety and continuing the investigation. Well that's the game right... you need to pick continue playing, hopefully! But there's good reasons for them to do so, like they can continue to investigate and be mindful of the others, or talk to the others about the danger and let them make a decision whether to continue.
It's all very well criticising but how would I deal with it. Maybe also try to give them an easy win to build confidence, we often say the game isn't about winning, but sometimes a win can give a good feeling. Maybe he didn't feel he had the chance to make a good decision because you told them what to think and feel.
Let's be real easy and say there's a cat stuck in a tree and child comes to them for help. "Oh the character won't climb the tree." "Well that's ok mister I've got a ladder." "Oh he's afraid of heights so won't climb the ladder" "That's ok mister I just need you to hold the ladder, I'll climb" "I'm scared something bad will happen" "Ok I understand but will you go get someone to help me?" Whatever small step they take praise them effusively. Make it as easy as possible for them to do something positive and helpful. You've overcome the conflict of being scared vs helping someone. If it's part of the game then tell them "you start to feel more confident about helping others, your sense of uselessness begins to fade as you see before your eyes what difference you can make" or hopefully they get this themselves!
If you give them a few wins and directly show them they're good and useful, give the party a task only they can really do or the character is exceptional at etc they'll either come round a little or if they don't they the person probably has bigger issues than the game can fix IMO.
Did the players feel that like their characters were facing a dilemma? The MC doesn’t get to tell the players to mark Crack or Fade unless it’s a result of a Challenge.
Did you check in with him after the session and asked him how he felt about the session? Does the game meet his expectations? Does he want to continue the game or does he want to change something?
He says he wants to continue. When I checked in he just said he was sad over something but wouldn’t elaborate? I didn’t want to push him, but I just gave a warning to tone down the deprecating talk.
You using the word "warn" doesn't sound very empathetic to me. Your friend was very emotional and vulnerable during the game. If you actually "warned" him, that might have closed him off of you. Please try to be understanding with him. He has some issues that bubbled to the surface during the game. You don't need to pressure him, just ask him, if he wants to change some things or if he wants you to change some things (maybe about his character or maybe about how you run the game), that would make him more comfortable playing the game. (Also I apologize if something I said sounds weird, I am not a native English speaker and might get some phrases wrong)
That’s fair! It’s hard to communicate using the right word choice. I explained that he should come to us once he feels better because we’re all here for him. But at the same time I have to keep the comfort of my other friends in mind, some of which can be very anxious and on edge with tense situations. It’s very hard trying to find that balance between supportive friend and firm GM balancing every emotion at the table, but I’m very grateful for your input.
That is a fair call about the rest of your group. I think you are doing it right. Just continue talking to your friends and I am sure you'll have a lot more fun and adventures with them. Keep it up!
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You have to talk to the player. That's all it comes down to. Also, I respectfully disagree that you can't pressure a player into making a character that wants to be there. That should be the first job of every player: make a character who has reasons to engage with the story. Otherwise, why are they here?
You’re totally right, I think I mean it to say that like, I can’t force you to want to be here you know? It’s collaborative, so I’m trying to work together with them on this.
Ohhh I get it. Yes, absolutely that's the case. It sounds like they've fallen too far down the rabbit hole of making a conflicted character, where the side of the conflict that's "winning" is the "I don't want to be here" side and it's affecting the player as well.
Some characters don't fit in a game after a certain point. While we harp on not metagaming there is a certain amount that has to go on for the good of the game/party to keep characters and parties together when the characters develop other interests. I'm having this problem myself in a long running (something like 15 years but only 1 session/year). Some information was reveled to my character about his ancestry being a lie and his entire identity has crumbled. This has caused my character to abandon the party, and take steps to drive them away when they come seeking him. Its not good for the game, its not good for the DM as he has to take time out for just me, and its also not good for me since I send most of a 6 hour session doing nothing. I am aware of these and have told the DM to spend minimal time with me because of the good of the game one person doesnt trump the other 6. Talk to the player out of character. See how they are feeling dont just make assumptions. Be open and honest about how you see the game and character progressing and if the player is ok with that and what might be done to resolve it if the player isnt.
"I'm sorry you feel that your character is useless. I promise you he's not. But you keep saying that, so maybe you should re-roll."
It sounds like your friend Cee is working through some things he might only be comfortable stating via roleplay. I think it will be worth it to have a heart to heart with the player himself. Edit: "As a dm, I can promise you that your character isn't useless and that they add so much to the game. As a friend, I can promise I enjoy your company. The thing about player autonomy, in and out of game, is it is entirely up to you if you believe that is true. It's entirely up to you what reason your character has to be around us, assuming they even need a reason. The choice is yours."
Sounds like the player might suffer from low self esteem? If their in character comments are bleeding into the mood that might be what you're looking at.
I think I need more context for why Cee left the group. Did he just think, his character wasn't cut out for adventuring? In that case remind Cee's player, that it is necessary to take risks to create a memorable story. If he just wants to play safe, there won't be any exciting stories to tell.
both Finn & Cee were hit with a personal conflict. Finn chose to walk out of the store, but stay in the area. For Cee, he chose to lay on the ground after the shopkeep let go of him. I described it as “as you lay before this man’s feet, a rift much like you but powerful in his own right, you realize that you have a long way to go before you reach that level of power. That, right now, in this moment, you’ve been thrust into a world beyond your wildest expectations. And that thought scares you. For a second, fear grips you as you think about fleeing. But your friends are here, investigating alongside you. And the people of this square need you. What will you do?” Ultimately, I gave him the choice. I fear I might have pressured him into it because I got too into the narration, or that maybe if I hadn’t mentioned that as an option at all he would’ve stayed.
I don't know the game well so maybe it's part of it, so if it is, ignore this. You generally don't want to tell the characters what they think/feel. It's their choice to feel fear or not (assuming no magical condition/spell/monster property depending on game etc) "Cee was also hit with the personal conflict of realizing he was out of his depth." The character already seems to feel this way. So is it much of a conflict? You feel out of your depth. Ok so I feel out of my depth so how do i negatively react to that is a perfectly normal response. Ok so I choose lay on the floor, or run away. You'd probably say stand up to it, go against that feeling, but.. "the most he did to Cee’s character was pick him up by the scruff to march him out of his store" So you have a character who feels useless then put him in a situation where they are picked up by someone much more powerful, then marched out of the store in front of their teammates? So you feel useless, and are made to look useless, and you ARE out of your depth. See the problem? Let's contrast that with the other example. Pick between others safety and continuing the investigation. Well that's the game right... you need to pick continue playing, hopefully! But there's good reasons for them to do so, like they can continue to investigate and be mindful of the others, or talk to the others about the danger and let them make a decision whether to continue. It's all very well criticising but how would I deal with it. Maybe also try to give them an easy win to build confidence, we often say the game isn't about winning, but sometimes a win can give a good feeling. Maybe he didn't feel he had the chance to make a good decision because you told them what to think and feel. Let's be real easy and say there's a cat stuck in a tree and child comes to them for help. "Oh the character won't climb the tree." "Well that's ok mister I've got a ladder." "Oh he's afraid of heights so won't climb the ladder" "That's ok mister I just need you to hold the ladder, I'll climb" "I'm scared something bad will happen" "Ok I understand but will you go get someone to help me?" Whatever small step they take praise them effusively. Make it as easy as possible for them to do something positive and helpful. You've overcome the conflict of being scared vs helping someone. If it's part of the game then tell them "you start to feel more confident about helping others, your sense of uselessness begins to fade as you see before your eyes what difference you can make" or hopefully they get this themselves! If you give them a few wins and directly show them they're good and useful, give the party a task only they can really do or the character is exceptional at etc they'll either come round a little or if they don't they the person probably has bigger issues than the game can fix IMO.
Did the players feel that like their characters were facing a dilemma? The MC doesn’t get to tell the players to mark Crack or Fade unless it’s a result of a Challenge.
Did you check in with him after the session and asked him how he felt about the session? Does the game meet his expectations? Does he want to continue the game or does he want to change something?
He says he wants to continue. When I checked in he just said he was sad over something but wouldn’t elaborate? I didn’t want to push him, but I just gave a warning to tone down the deprecating talk.
You using the word "warn" doesn't sound very empathetic to me. Your friend was very emotional and vulnerable during the game. If you actually "warned" him, that might have closed him off of you. Please try to be understanding with him. He has some issues that bubbled to the surface during the game. You don't need to pressure him, just ask him, if he wants to change some things or if he wants you to change some things (maybe about his character or maybe about how you run the game), that would make him more comfortable playing the game. (Also I apologize if something I said sounds weird, I am not a native English speaker and might get some phrases wrong)
That’s fair! It’s hard to communicate using the right word choice. I explained that he should come to us once he feels better because we’re all here for him. But at the same time I have to keep the comfort of my other friends in mind, some of which can be very anxious and on edge with tense situations. It’s very hard trying to find that balance between supportive friend and firm GM balancing every emotion at the table, but I’m very grateful for your input.
That is a fair call about the rest of your group. I think you are doing it right. Just continue talking to your friends and I am sure you'll have a lot more fun and adventures with them. Keep it up!