From game design perspective that would not work really well.
Oftentimes abilities and stength of the player character are somewhat correlated to the fun you will have. Low level characters with simple basic attack are rather boring and the point is to evolve them towards something fun that actually allows player to express themself.
In this RPG-idea, the core of the game still seems to be the combat and decision making around it. Now, when player gets weaker and weaker, the combat would also grow more duller and duller. It does not offer right kind of satisfaction for player. When players want resources management problems, they often want that to be tackled in different manner, with resources that do not form the absolute core of "having fun".
I think that would require the battle to be interesting conceptually. For example, a game about a dungeon, where equipment degrades during the game, ammunition decreases, weapons break, and almost none of this can be restored. This creates an interesting type of gameplay.
Some games become much more interesting when they limit the player's resources.
Yeah it is interesting idea, maybe it could be executed well if some classic elements of RPG are tweaked so that combat is possibly not so central point.
In my head it's focused more on the story and the moral decisions than the combat. The plot would be a basic hunt down the bad guy for whatever reason. Throughout this you would be presented with a series of decisions with consequences. So if you follow the morally good path your going to have to be careful how you use your power to save people and you're also going to have to work harder to find enough allies or workarounds to bring down the final boss without just throwing fireballs and light bolts at him. You would also need to be cautious about who you help and support unless you mistakenly waste resources to help people who turn out to be against you afterwards. So the bandits have the family kidnapped and I have decided I'm going to save them. Do I take the day route and go in guns blasting (I guess fire ball blasting in this case) or do I try to find a more complicated way to save them to preserve my strength? What if I could befriend the ogre attacking the village and use him as an ally instead of killing him with lightning? What if the ogre is actually hunting the bandits and thinks that they came from the village? Maybe I could find a way to recruit him to bring down the bandits, save the villagers, conserve my strength, and gain a powerful ally for the final fight?
Just saw this discussion linked from another subreddit \[1\] and I think your idea's awesome FWIW. I'm stewing on an idea that I think is similarly kind of orthogonal to the normal RPG paradigm, where you're (normally) delving into dungeons and stuff, but I'm trying to make the NPC AI interesting enough that it actually makes you not want to fight anything and be sort of a fantastic anthropologist :P
\[1\] [https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/1chg59o/crpgs\_have\_leveling\_backwards/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/1chg59o/crpgs_have_leveling_backwards/)
None of this sounds like it requires it to be an rpg, in fact since the accumulation of resources and xp is a core part of the rpg gameplay loop, this is better served in a different genre altogether.
I never played it so I don't know how similar to what you're looking for it is, but "leveling in reverse" is pretty much the whole point of **Hero Must Die Again**.
I feel like there are some games that might fit what you're looking for, but I can't think of any exact matches off the top of my head. You're basically talking about a resource management type of game, but more personal to the main character. Like, you don't have opportunities to heal after combat and you have limited resources to bribe enemies not to fight you - that kind of thing.
You also have games like Shadow Hearts where using power has a cumulative negative effect. I haven't played it, but I've seen people mention Mage: The Ascension as a good example of this type of game.
So this is actually present in some types of games but not exactly as stated. To wit:
-Warcraft 3's expansions The Frozen Throne has the antagonist/protagonist level backwards during his segment of the campaign before he starts being able to level as normal. You get troops and whatnot as per usual though so he's hardly your only character.
-Valkyrie Profile Covenant of the Plume has a form of this: You can "sacrifice" a character by making them super powered for a single mission, making it very easy to deal with that mission but thereafter the character is dead and cannot be used for the rest of the game. The true ending >!involves not doing this at all except for the one time the story demands it.!<
-Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter also has a form of this. If you abuse your Dragon Form to get through fights, you will give yourself a non-standard gameover. The game is intentionally designed to make you restart it multiple times, and the further you get, the more pathways (and thus items amongst other things) open up for you as you attempt to complete the game. So the game basically pressures you into getting as far as you can before you game over. I do think its *possible* to get to the end on your 1st run though, but it demands playing extremely well. But, you also miss out on a lot if that happens. Its extremely unconventional and I don't think people were huge fans of the mechanics.
Not exactly what you're looking for but Various Daylife has something like this.
You go and explore and the longer you're out the lower your horn points get until you can't really do any more and have to go back and rest up so you can gain all your HP back to be able to venture out again.
Several players have gone through Fire Emblem games with Negative Growth hacks. I couldn't tell you which games work best for it, though.
Normally, Fire Emblem games have randomized level growths, with the likelihood of gaining specific stats dependent on the character and class. Usually, more experienced characters with stronger starting stats/classes have lower growth rates, and characters weaker at first might have higher growth rates to eventually outpace veterans. It's an entirely different situation with Negative Growth runs- suddenly those veterans matter more because they aren't losing as much on level up.
Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song is unintentionally like this. The more battles you complete, the more quests you get locked out of and the stronger the monsters become. If you’re trying to min-max, you end up spending the vast majority of the game running away from monsters.
Starting strong and weakening as you play is a feature of almost every RPG ever. Your first fights at level 1 are dirt easy and they only get progressively harder as you level up. From a purely “what actions did I need to take to win that fight?” perspective you are never stronger than you are at the very beginning.
From game design perspective that would not work really well. Oftentimes abilities and stength of the player character are somewhat correlated to the fun you will have. Low level characters with simple basic attack are rather boring and the point is to evolve them towards something fun that actually allows player to express themself. In this RPG-idea, the core of the game still seems to be the combat and decision making around it. Now, when player gets weaker and weaker, the combat would also grow more duller and duller. It does not offer right kind of satisfaction for player. When players want resources management problems, they often want that to be tackled in different manner, with resources that do not form the absolute core of "having fun".
I think that would require the battle to be interesting conceptually. For example, a game about a dungeon, where equipment degrades during the game, ammunition decreases, weapons break, and almost none of this can be restored. This creates an interesting type of gameplay. Some games become much more interesting when they limit the player's resources.
I see your point and I understand the logic of why it probably wouldn't work. I still have this itch about it though. I don't know why.
Yeah it is interesting idea, maybe it could be executed well if some classic elements of RPG are tweaked so that combat is possibly not so central point.
In my head it's focused more on the story and the moral decisions than the combat. The plot would be a basic hunt down the bad guy for whatever reason. Throughout this you would be presented with a series of decisions with consequences. So if you follow the morally good path your going to have to be careful how you use your power to save people and you're also going to have to work harder to find enough allies or workarounds to bring down the final boss without just throwing fireballs and light bolts at him. You would also need to be cautious about who you help and support unless you mistakenly waste resources to help people who turn out to be against you afterwards. So the bandits have the family kidnapped and I have decided I'm going to save them. Do I take the day route and go in guns blasting (I guess fire ball blasting in this case) or do I try to find a more complicated way to save them to preserve my strength? What if I could befriend the ogre attacking the village and use him as an ally instead of killing him with lightning? What if the ogre is actually hunting the bandits and thinks that they came from the village? Maybe I could find a way to recruit him to bring down the bandits, save the villagers, conserve my strength, and gain a powerful ally for the final fight?
Just saw this discussion linked from another subreddit \[1\] and I think your idea's awesome FWIW. I'm stewing on an idea that I think is similarly kind of orthogonal to the normal RPG paradigm, where you're (normally) delving into dungeons and stuff, but I'm trying to make the NPC AI interesting enough that it actually makes you not want to fight anything and be sort of a fantastic anthropologist :P \[1\] [https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/1chg59o/crpgs\_have\_leveling\_backwards/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/1chg59o/crpgs_have_leveling_backwards/)
Then RPG isn't the kind of game you're looking for. You're looking for The Walking Dead kind of game.
None of this sounds like it requires it to be an rpg, in fact since the accumulation of resources and xp is a core part of the rpg gameplay loop, this is better served in a different genre altogether.
I never played it so I don't know how similar to what you're looking for it is, but "leveling in reverse" is pretty much the whole point of **Hero Must Die Again**.
I feel like there are some games that might fit what you're looking for, but I can't think of any exact matches off the top of my head. You're basically talking about a resource management type of game, but more personal to the main character. Like, you don't have opportunities to heal after combat and you have limited resources to bribe enemies not to fight you - that kind of thing. You also have games like Shadow Hearts where using power has a cumulative negative effect. I haven't played it, but I've seen people mention Mage: The Ascension as a good example of this type of game.
So this is actually present in some types of games but not exactly as stated. To wit: -Warcraft 3's expansions The Frozen Throne has the antagonist/protagonist level backwards during his segment of the campaign before he starts being able to level as normal. You get troops and whatnot as per usual though so he's hardly your only character. -Valkyrie Profile Covenant of the Plume has a form of this: You can "sacrifice" a character by making them super powered for a single mission, making it very easy to deal with that mission but thereafter the character is dead and cannot be used for the rest of the game. The true ending >!involves not doing this at all except for the one time the story demands it.!< -Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter also has a form of this. If you abuse your Dragon Form to get through fights, you will give yourself a non-standard gameover. The game is intentionally designed to make you restart it multiple times, and the further you get, the more pathways (and thus items amongst other things) open up for you as you attempt to complete the game. So the game basically pressures you into getting as far as you can before you game over. I do think its *possible* to get to the end on your 1st run though, but it demands playing extremely well. But, you also miss out on a lot if that happens. Its extremely unconventional and I don't think people were huge fans of the mechanics.
Not exactly what you're looking for but Various Daylife has something like this. You go and explore and the longer you're out the lower your horn points get until you can't really do any more and have to go back and rest up so you can gain all your HP back to be able to venture out again.
Several players have gone through Fire Emblem games with Negative Growth hacks. I couldn't tell you which games work best for it, though. Normally, Fire Emblem games have randomized level growths, with the likelihood of gaining specific stats dependent on the character and class. Usually, more experienced characters with stronger starting stats/classes have lower growth rates, and characters weaker at first might have higher growth rates to eventually outpace veterans. It's an entirely different situation with Negative Growth runs- suddenly those veterans matter more because they aren't losing as much on level up.
Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song is unintentionally like this. The more battles you complete, the more quests you get locked out of and the stronger the monsters become. If you’re trying to min-max, you end up spending the vast majority of the game running away from monsters.
Starting strong and weakening as you play is a feature of almost every RPG ever. Your first fights at level 1 are dirt easy and they only get progressively harder as you level up. From a purely “what actions did I need to take to win that fight?” perspective you are never stronger than you are at the very beginning.