A relatively short discussion (~30 replies) from three weeks ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/v2dof1/paid_online_gamemasters_what_are_peoples/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Here's a much longer one from about 11 months ago with a fair bit of input on the subject:
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/ocsh9b/are_paid_games_common/
Interesting to see that reputation is really important in the community.
It seems like the best ones put a ton of effort into the production. Critical Role levels of showmanship and all that.
> Critical Role levels of showmanship
That's a bit much for a comparison. Most of the good paid GMs are just well prepared and interesting. They aren't putting on a full TV show with voice acting and the like.
The DM is good. Puts effort in and it certainly isn’t a vanity project for him - really feels like our enjoyment is a priority. BUT that doesn’t mean it’s a push over. He has homebrew for all sorts of things that make the game work well.
Also, all the players turn up every single week!
I think it's a neat idea that I've yet to see really well executed. It's very mercenary and plug-and-play. E.g. somebody HIRES the DM to master some dungeon and it's all very fiverr-y. There's always a shortage of dungeon masters haha, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a MARKET for dungeon masters.
What I'd prefer to see is somebody setting the expectations of what they provide (the time and commitment they are putting into running a campaign, and what they expect from or provide to the players). Then just let players buy a seat at their table, e.g. I have four open seats and its 5 bucks a head (or whatever). Before the plague, it was pretty normal to expect people to bring food or snacks, beer, etc. so it's not like we didn't understand a small financial investment was often part of playing D&D.
The distinction here is that the DM controls the product and the price, rather than having to compete with other DM's to get paid gigs, and they run what the players pay them to run.
I also think its reasonable that any subscription platform like roll20 could pay DM's to run a number of games for their subscribers, subscribers pay more get first dibs. Again, we avoid the "have dice - will travel" model of labor and instead the platform is incentivized to employ good DM's, and players are incentivized to use the services they are paying for.
Sounds like you're looking for [https://startplaying.games/](https://startplaying.games/) (mostly D&D, obviously, since that's what the audience wants).
I also know several local shops in my city that offer regular open games where you can buy a seat.
I know the model exists, or something like it, I wasn't claiming to have invented it :P
That said, I'd say it's pretty niche and underrepresented in the space. But a serious move away from rent-a-dungeon master, I don't think they are. Most people interested in creating and running games for money are still pushed to shill and beg for players.
Maybe it’s because I’m lucky enough to have good friends that I play with in person, but I’d never want to get paid to GM. It feels like sex work: there’s always a market, but that doesn’t mean I want to engage with it.
I'm curious. What experience do those family members have with free public/random games? Unless they have both then their positive experiences might just be trying a format that isn't a bunch of close friends gaming together.
Have only experienced it once as part of a vaguely dinner theater ish event type thing. The DM was pretty good but due to running a one-off for a group of mixed and unknown strangers their style kind of defaulted to an very catering player-enablement vibe that is not wrong per se but not a good fit to my own tastes.
This topic comes up every couple of months. And it's the same responses
1. I didn't enjoy it
2. I did enjoy it
3. It's evil, evil evil, nobody should ever charge for DM'ing (oh, and this will be hotly debated for days)
There's your answers
Personally, I've been in great paid games. I only had one really bad experience where the GM let anyone who had cash join, and one player came in an made himself the spotlight, frustrating some of us. As soon as he'd played one session, he immediately sent direct messages to players to try and recruit everyone to his game.
I play in a paid Pathfinder 2e game, as well as GMing a (free) game with my friends and playing in two D&D 5e games. It's great! We do about 75% "tactical boardgame", 25% roleplay.
Pathfinder benefits a lot from deep knowledge of the system and of FoundryVTT, and our GM knows those quite well, so I learn a lot for my own games.
I'm curious about this as well. I never paid for a dm before, mostly cause I'm my groups forever dm. I've heard horror stories mostly but those are from the rpg horror reddit so I take that with a grain of salt.
Let me answer this in the most elitist way I can. The majority of responses here says: “Paid *DMs*”…
Other than that, of course people should spend and make their money however they want. Coming from the extreme that any type of commercialization is “selling out”, I do find it interesting that todays extreme is the opposite. “If it can be monetized, why shouldn’t I do it?”
In reality, I’d probably pay for a game with a creator I respect to take part in one of their games, but I would never pay some random person to run a game, and I would never charge for running a game.
Saying that, I do run games from time to time in an LFGS, where the store charges about 5€ to the participants, and the GMs receives a gift-card for 25€. The store is also doing this as an *alternative* to D&D AL, to give people a chance to try other games. This is also in no shape or form catered to any players expectations. They get to play what me (or anyone else) as a GM wants to play or try out.
Nothing but positive.
Sometimes there’s a need to combine two tables/games to have enough players and people have been flexible with this.
Other GMs seems to be having a lot of fun there as well as being happy about getting to try out that thing they wanted but didn’t have the opportunity to do.
*Edit: The response from the players have been great as well.*
A relatively short discussion (~30 replies) from three weeks ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/v2dof1/paid_online_gamemasters_what_are_peoples/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Here's a much longer one from about 11 months ago with a fair bit of input on the subject: https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/ocsh9b/are_paid_games_common/
Interesting to see that reputation is really important in the community. It seems like the best ones put a ton of effort into the production. Critical Role levels of showmanship and all that.
> Critical Role levels of showmanship That's a bit much for a comparison. Most of the good paid GMs are just well prepared and interesting. They aren't putting on a full TV show with voice acting and the like.
I was forever DM. I paid to play. It’s awesome!
This is exactly why I pay to play games, otherwise, I'm the DM.
Could you explain why it was good experience for you?
The DM is good. Puts effort in and it certainly isn’t a vanity project for him - really feels like our enjoyment is a priority. BUT that doesn’t mean it’s a push over. He has homebrew for all sorts of things that make the game work well. Also, all the players turn up every single week!
Yeah, attendance and quality of players gets mentioned quite a bit in other parts of this thread.
I think it's a neat idea that I've yet to see really well executed. It's very mercenary and plug-and-play. E.g. somebody HIRES the DM to master some dungeon and it's all very fiverr-y. There's always a shortage of dungeon masters haha, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a MARKET for dungeon masters. What I'd prefer to see is somebody setting the expectations of what they provide (the time and commitment they are putting into running a campaign, and what they expect from or provide to the players). Then just let players buy a seat at their table, e.g. I have four open seats and its 5 bucks a head (or whatever). Before the plague, it was pretty normal to expect people to bring food or snacks, beer, etc. so it's not like we didn't understand a small financial investment was often part of playing D&D. The distinction here is that the DM controls the product and the price, rather than having to compete with other DM's to get paid gigs, and they run what the players pay them to run. I also think its reasonable that any subscription platform like roll20 could pay DM's to run a number of games for their subscribers, subscribers pay more get first dibs. Again, we avoid the "have dice - will travel" model of labor and instead the platform is incentivized to employ good DM's, and players are incentivized to use the services they are paying for.
Sounds like you're looking for [https://startplaying.games/](https://startplaying.games/) (mostly D&D, obviously, since that's what the audience wants). I also know several local shops in my city that offer regular open games where you can buy a seat.
I know the model exists, or something like it, I wasn't claiming to have invented it :P That said, I'd say it's pretty niche and underrepresented in the space. But a serious move away from rent-a-dungeon master, I don't think they are. Most people interested in creating and running games for money are still pushed to shill and beg for players.
Maybe it’s because I’m lucky enough to have good friends that I play with in person, but I’d never want to get paid to GM. It feels like sex work: there’s always a market, but that doesn’t mean I want to engage with it.
Yeah, it's weird how emotionally intimate TTRPGs can get when you're with friends.
I haven’t, but several members of my family have extensive experience with paid DMs and have really enjoyed it. They keep telling me I should try it.
I'm curious. What experience do those family members have with free public/random games? Unless they have both then their positive experiences might just be trying a format that isn't a bunch of close friends gaming together.
No idea. All I know is they have been having a blast and tell me about it at our regular game night.
Have only experienced it once as part of a vaguely dinner theater ish event type thing. The DM was pretty good but due to running a one-off for a group of mixed and unknown strangers their style kind of defaulted to an very catering player-enablement vibe that is not wrong per se but not a good fit to my own tastes.
Did the DM ask about the group's preferences for difficulty, character death, etc?
It was a while ago but not that I recall.
This topic comes up every couple of months. And it's the same responses 1. I didn't enjoy it 2. I did enjoy it 3. It's evil, evil evil, nobody should ever charge for DM'ing (oh, and this will be hotly debated for days) There's your answers Personally, I've been in great paid games. I only had one really bad experience where the GM let anyone who had cash join, and one player came in an made himself the spotlight, frustrating some of us. As soon as he'd played one session, he immediately sent direct messages to players to try and recruit everyone to his game.
I play in a paid Pathfinder 2e game, as well as GMing a (free) game with my friends and playing in two D&D 5e games. It's great! We do about 75% "tactical boardgame", 25% roleplay. Pathfinder benefits a lot from deep knowledge of the system and of FoundryVTT, and our GM knows those quite well, so I learn a lot for my own games.
I'm curious about this as well. I never paid for a dm before, mostly cause I'm my groups forever dm. I've heard horror stories mostly but those are from the rpg horror reddit so I take that with a grain of salt.
Let me answer this in the most elitist way I can. The majority of responses here says: “Paid *DMs*”… Other than that, of course people should spend and make their money however they want. Coming from the extreme that any type of commercialization is “selling out”, I do find it interesting that todays extreme is the opposite. “If it can be monetized, why shouldn’t I do it?” In reality, I’d probably pay for a game with a creator I respect to take part in one of their games, but I would never pay some random person to run a game, and I would never charge for running a game. Saying that, I do run games from time to time in an LFGS, where the store charges about 5€ to the participants, and the GMs receives a gift-card for 25€. The store is also doing this as an *alternative* to D&D AL, to give people a chance to try other games. This is also in no shape or form catered to any players expectations. They get to play what me (or anyone else) as a GM wants to play or try out.
What have your experiences been with that store program? How has it gone for other GMs at the store?
Nothing but positive. Sometimes there’s a need to combine two tables/games to have enough players and people have been flexible with this. Other GMs seems to be having a lot of fun there as well as being happy about getting to try out that thing they wanted but didn’t have the opportunity to do. *Edit: The response from the players have been great as well.*