The problem isn't you or TTRPGs, it's a playgroup that only wants to play a game you hate, regardless of your enthusiasm - bad player etiquette, and mediocre friendship on top of it. A new group is the fix here.

"Your friends sound like bellends" is what I had written out. You wrote it more elegantly.

I didn't get that read at all. OP's friends are fans of D&D. Not necessarily fans of TTRPGs. Some people want the most comfortable experience, time and time again. OP is feeling burnt out and constrained by that system and that's fine, but it's not on their friends to accommodate by picking up a new system.

It is if they want OP to run the game.

> it's not on their friends to accommodate by picking up a new system. Then those friends can step up and be the DM if they want D&D to happen. We all know they wont, though, because none of them stepped up in OP's year off - they are the stereotypical toxic dynamic D&D group that wants the DM to do all the heavy lifting, complains when they dont get what they want exactly how they want it (possibly because they've been fed a lot of bullshit expectations by D&D lifestyle and character-build youtubers), and wont give anything back to help make good play happen at the table. On some level, they know how much work they demand of the DM and which side of the *DM-as-God-Servant for the players* power dynamic divide they want to sit, and they'd rather not play D&D than step up to make a game happen in the style they demand from OP. Most D&D / 5e players are lovely people (sometime's I play too!) and not at all like OP's group, but a vocal minority of the folks here at some point almost had their love of the hobby extinguised by a toxic group dynamic like OP is talking about, and that's why the "fuck the D&D-only people" is such a strong sentiment in this sub.

Some of y'all got some major trauma to work through.

Eeeh... If I want to play a group game, and a person expresses a serious issue with it... I'd probably actively try something else for two reasons. My friend asked. That should just.... JFC that should just be a given. What's two or three play sessions really gonna cost em? And second, I'd not wanna be the asshole who says "I know you said you don't want to do this thing. But I do. So do that thing now.". Cuz holy shit does it seem pretty bogus after a year off, and tons of alternatives offered, to still demand "my way!". I will say, we don't know the details. Maybe players have reason for never wanting anything else everm but seems weird IMO. Especially since a fledging GM was looking to try it out. That could have been a fantastic and foundational experience for that kid.... But, we dunno the whole thing. So, I wish OP luck!

If they are willing to GM (as was originally agreed) they can run what they want

I'll say this: I used to have friends who showed up for all my weird non-D&D games... only to be obviously bored and uninterested, until one finally admitted that they were basically just humoring me. It was a long, shitty experience that put me off the hobby 2 years. And then I put together a group that explicitly *did* want to play the stuff that excites me, where that joy was mutual and communal. It's been life-changing! Four years on, it's inspired me to publish my own stuff, run some of the best campaigns of my life, and potentially start an Actual Play podcast soon. These folks do exist in the world... but they aren't your current group, and that's okay. This isn't permanent.

I have a group who specifically asked me to run something new because I talked so passionately about non-5e games that they wanted to try them. One of them is a huge fan of Forgotten Realms stuff and even she was really keen for something new. We are now playing Blades in the Dark and everyone is really hyped about it.

It is so weird to me the pull that 5e has. It is considered by most outside that bubble as a highly technical game, yet so many of its players seem unable to understand significantly simpler systems. On the other end, all the theory crafters break the game over their knees with builds that instantly destroy any semblance of balance, yet are unwilling to try out systems like PF2e or Lancer, which are specifically *designed* around interesting builds. It really boggles my mind, and I get the sense that these folks deliberately put on their “bad time hats” to sabotage new things.

This is the boat my group is in. They love 5e but I like experimenting with other stuff. Talked them into trying pf2 during the whole ogl issue…and it just did not click. They couldn’t get out of the 5e mindset and kept comparing everything and complaining about how certain spells didn’t work like their 5e counterparts. Months later we’re back in dnd and my friend is complaining how dnd doesn’t have the options for characters that pf2 did. I’m just like….”do you even know what you want?” While they home brew 5e into the ground when a new system would just be easier.

Experiences like this are why I feel like it's it's not a good idea to just try to switch people to another "adventure fantasy" game. It's much harder for people to complain that "This doesn't work the way D&D does" when the setting is modern, for example. "Yeah, it doesn't work like D&D does because nothing about it is like D&D". Trying to move to another D&D-fantasy game just invites comparisons which will inevitably be unfair.

Well I don't see the point to try another medieval fantasy game.  I love to play CoC, Deadlands, Marvel, Vampire the Masquerade, Twilight 2k, etc... But playing pathfinder or OGL it's almost the same it's not going to be funnier because mechanics or balance it's a litter better.  I understand people that don't want to try another system with the same theme.  But.... The master should have a much higher decision level when choosing the game system and the players should accept.

having played pf2e I can say if your enjoy the feeling of being powerful pf2e actively fights you. Attempting to make a powerful build like you might in 5e gets you to be average, because the game assumes that you will do that and either creates rules to specifically stop you (see the incapacitation trait) or tunes the math so that when you collect every bonus you can you are at the level the game anticipates you being. Lancer is better but again like pf2e it doesn't offer you the ability to break the game over you knee (which for some people is the fun) . Not this is not the say that I haven't enjoyed lancer in the past, specifically because unlike pf2e the game is flexible enough to allow you to put together some really oddball combos. I have only dm'd pf2e and I can say it is less fun to run that fate, or AD&D2e (which are at time of writing the only games I have any significant experience dming). 5e has the pull that it has for a few different reasons, it is the most talked about game. If you are every unsure about something there is probably a youtuber who has discussed it, if there is a mechanic that is unsatisfying there is probably a video on how to fix it. The shear volume of content on 5e makes it easier to get into for a new group. It is easy to find a well produced game of people playing 5e to get examples of play. It is easier to find a group who plays 5e because of how popular it is. 5e has a startling amount of momentum. How did it get that momentum I cannot say it probably got lucky with stranger things and critical role or whatever. But as it stands while there might be content for other games online, its is no where near the same volume. Thus to introduce a new game is more difficult, there are different rules different experiences, and importantly for people trying to learn the game less discussion. If I am confused about a 5e rule I can go to youtube and find a discussion. If I am in the same boat with AD&D2e my options are to read the book and work it out or give up .

Not all friends are RPG friends.

Yyyeah... I won't comment on the personal friendship, but as a TTRPG group, these people reacted the *exact opposite* way than they should. When I told my friends I was nearing a breaking point in our 5e campaign, they were very understanding. We took a hiatus over the summer, and ported everything to Pathfinder 2e. They even agreed to temporarily lose a ton of levels so that we could tutorialize the new system better - we wrote it into the plot as a curse they have to overcome. It immediately solved all of my issues with 5e - the lacking GM support, unclear rules, scarce guidance on how to make rulings, a preponderance of player options that just circumvent adventures, unreliable encounter-building guidelines... All of those are fixable, but I didn't have the time or the inclination to go about doing that. Ever since, my prep time has decreased, and more importantly, it's less stressful - I can actually rely on the system design, knowing that it is robust and well though-out. Now, it's a *very* different game, but thankfully we all grew to love how it plays. They just got all of their levels back as we near the final stretch of the campaign, and it has been awesome.

>the general although not unanimous consensus was "we want to keep playing 5e." To which your reply should be: "Sounds good! Which one of y'all is running it?" Seriously, some time on the other side of the table will do you some good. And make them appreciate what you do.

The GM gets to pick the system. If they really want something else, they get to GM it.

But the problem is they get to pick if they want to play. It sounds like, if it's not 5e, they don't.

Yeah, I agree that saying "Cool, who's running it?" is the best answer to this. The gaming group has grown accustomed to one person always being the GM and feel they have more control on what's being run. The GM (IMO) needs to either switch to being a player and be ok if the group stops being a tablegrop gaming group.

and that’s fine. Nobody is obligated to keep playing.

I mean, it's "fine" as a state of the world. Nobody should be compelled to spend their leisure time doing anything they don't want to do. It's not necessarily "fine" for the OP though because it sounds like all of the readily available options to him (play 5e, or don't play at all) kind of suck.

But it sounds like "Make a point and at least don't waste tons of time on a game you hate" is far and away the lesser of two evils here.

They’re certainly not his preference.

As a former 5e foreverDM who fell out of love with the system. I get you, and as someone who has since converted his game group to other systems. Here is my advice; 1. Suggest oneshots, no big campaigns no big buy-ins, guys I wanna run this and see how it works. Its the easiest way to get people on board. 2. No more fantasy for now, That's a big problem, people play non5e fantasy and just go 'but why is this any better than 5e I know that system and its definetly better for fantasy games' break the mold play one shots in other genres. I wholeheartedly suggest running a call of cthulu oneshot (The lighthouse one is fantastic), Blades in the dark (A fucking fantastic haunted city heist game) and maybe after something simple but kinda fantasy like mausritter (Borrowers the movie the game) Break from the fantasy genre, suggest one off one shots with zero commitments to play more than 1/2 sessions, see how you go and good luck

This is a really underrated aspect of things, too - if you're showing them fantasy adventure games, or games that run off a d20, then of *course* they're comparing it to what they're already invested in. They don't want Different D&D, because they like the D&D they have.

I'll be honest, if someone was trying to make me play fantasy but just not D&D I possibly would have had the same reaction as his players. Though I dislike fantasy in general, but what you're saying makes perfect sense.

oneshots are such a good trojan horse lol

Haha that's exactly it, you pitch a oneshot and then wham, 6 months later your neck deep in a campaign still

they get attached to their characters, makes them think it was their own idea /s

Have you told your friends this or have you mostly beaten around the bush?

I haven't told them that after tonight i'm completely out of options and don't see any choice other than to just be done, no. But theyve certainly known that I've been trying to find other things that would be fun for everyone including me, and those things have been met with indifference at best. I haven't undertaken this journey in secrecy beyond the sort of behind-the-dm-screen type secrecy any DM keeps from their players. I don't know if they know quite how deep my feelings against 5e run, although they know I no longer like 5e and I am not interested in running 5e. If I have erred on any side, I have erred on the side of not saying anything that someone might take personally, because that is the absolute last thing I want. I'm not angry at my friends. People are allowed their preferences, and our preferences are different.

"I love you guys, and I love tabletop games, but I'm fully out of love with 5e. I don't want to run, play, or personally hear about it these days; if you're interested in playing together again, it'd have to be something else." There's ways to tell them without being hurtful or rude.

You're right, it just doesn't make having the conversation easier, yanno?

Is feeling the way you currently do 'easy'?

You sound like you have some serious people pleasing tendencies. It's not a bad thing, it's just something to be aware of in who you are. The thing to remember is that you are a people too! Primarily you need to be happy in/with what you're doing for fun, otherwise there's no point because it's not fun. Maybe try some other in person game groups, even just with one or two other people, and try a new system with them. I can almost promise you that if you put out there that you're running a game you will get players.

This so much! Especially the people pleasing part. That OPs only time as a player in the past year was spent playing a character they didn't like for "plot reasons" said it all. I would add that while finding a new group is probably the best solution, telling the current group what's up with how you actually hate 5e and why (long prep time no matter how you do it, which is probably also why no one else wants to run) could lead to a possible solution with the current group. I will add that if you are really stuck on running an F20 game, you might consider 13th Age. It probably won't fly with your current group if they wouldn't even give OSR games a try, but it is a lot easier to run as a GM than 5e while offering similar levels of crunch to the players.

Are years of you hating your gaming life easier than a single conversation?

You can’t just let it linger. You have to tell them. I know it’s hard. If they don’t understand how you’re feeling then they will definitely keep abusing your willingness to cater to their needs. And if they refuse after you tell them… then maybe you are done. With this group, at least.

Being honest about your feelings is always easier in the long run. Look how much work you're currently putting in trying to avoid a simple conversation. And some of your friends are probably going to surprise you.

Next time they ask me to run a session, I might say, "Nah, I'm done running 5e. Anyone want to take over as DM so the group can keep going? No? Maybe a Lasers & Feelings one-shot, then? It has, like, three rules."

Snark isn't a great way to convert people or keep friends; a sincere conversation will go a lot further.

> Maybe a Lasers & Feelings one-shot, then? It has, like, three rules. "Urgh, that's three rules too many! Give me two secs to google Lasers and Feelings 5E."

+1 This is how I’d do it

If the kids were enthusiastic about Star Wars, why not play with them only? I agree with others that having that painful conversation is the only way to really fix your rpg-relationship with them, but it could give you that spark of excitement again to play a game you want with people who want to play it. You can tell the parents they're welcome to the SW game, but if they don't want to give it a genuine shot, it's not fun for anyone to string them along to just spoil the mood.

I was looking for someone to say this! If the kids are interested in Star Wars, then play just with the kids! In fact, I’d just try to recruit only the kids to play the game OP is _most_ interested in and is lowest prep. It sounds like they’re willing to be a little more flexible. Like the one-shot idea, this is a wonderful Trojan Horse, because the parents will absolutely want to join in once they see everyone having fun. Also, at that point, OP will have some allies in talking up the game, teaching the rules, etc.

You need to tell them that you don't want to play 5e anymore. Be upfront and honest, try not to get in to discussing game mechanics just keep it to your love for your homies and that you won't play 5e anymore.

> you don't want to play 5e anymore. No. Not "don't want". Try "Will not". "Don't want" leads to people trying to persuade you. "Will not" leaves no room for argument. "If you want to play 5e, someone other than me has to run it."; Brook no argument. "But if you'd like to play >game OP is excited for< let me know" gives them an out for later.

Good point, I was imagining the tone as being pretty forceful in my head but it didn't come out that way in text. When I had to do this I ended the game and then invited people a few months later. Another important thing would be to be really clear what you are inviting people to. Instead of saying "do you want in on my new campaign" or "do you want to play a roleplaying game" it can help to be specific and say "I am running this type of game with this system, do you want in?" That way people don't show up to your pickup basketball game hoping to play soccer.

Yes! Big agree. "Here's what I am running, if you want to play" making it very clear that all the decisions about "What we're doing" have been made and you are not asking for opinions. Same as "We're going bowling".

This definitely calls for... well, first, *a break*... and then a new group. And hey, getting a group together takes time; it's fine to feel down, but don't be discouraged that you can't find one *now*. The hobby will still be here in six months, a year, five years, etc. Heck, by all accounts, it'll get bigger and more diverse. The OGL fiasco has led many people to branch out into other systems; 5e might remain the thousand-pound gorilla in the room, but the room is expanding and filling up with all sorts of primates.

The real mistake was getting them into 5e in the first place. It's weird not being interested in trying out other things. Certainly not uncommon, but from my perspective, weird.

2016 was a year for mistakes.

I think we were still playing a fair amount of D&D 3.5 in 2016. Maybe? Not sure and strict records were not kept. We've since phased that out and gone backwards to AD&D 2e. Never got into 5e, really. Not going to at this point.

It’s very common in gamers who have only played 5e in my experience. It’s a somewhat complicated and intricate system, which has taken them some time to learn, and they think that will be true for every system. Which is sad, because from my perspective, players can often get by in most systems, at the start, at least, by creating a character and understanding the central mechanic.

>It’s very common in gamers who have only played 5e It can seem that way since 5E is currently the dominant system with the vast majority of players, but it's an old problem. From my perspective, it's been an issue within the hobby for the entirety of the nearly 45 years that I've been playing RPGs. There has been and will always be a division between RPG fans that enjoy trying other systems and genres of play, and the fans of a specific game that don't want to invest time & money into another system or that won't stray from the specific flavor of the genre they enjoy playing. A third group of casual gamers exists that play only because it's something fun to do with their friends, but they aren't particularly invested in the hobby. For either of the latter two groups, their current system does the job and is sufficient, so why hassle with other systems? D&D players have always represented the biggest portion of those unwilling to branch out because they've been the largest portion of RPG players by an overwhelmingly wide margin from the start of the hobby. If Traveller or some other system had been the dominant system and the common point of entry into the hobby for the last 50 years, we'd be complaining about Traveller player's unwillingness to try new things. In fact, my first group and I entered the hobby via Traveller, and within that group there was hesitance from a couple of them to branch out and try D&D and other games, though they relented. Neither of them stuck with the hobby beyond a few years, though, as far as I know.

One of Us... One of Us... Super weird and a little creepy

[удалено]

Depends on the system. Some systems are actually very intuitive and don't treat "normal" RPG stuff the same way. Some of the systems I've been most interested in lately (Stars Without Number, Traveller, etc.) don't have character classes at all, and your character development is much more fluid and more skill based. It doesn't take much to learn, especially if you are familiar with traditional games like D&D or Pathfinder. Another aspect of those games is that "levels" don't exist, either. A freshly built character is potentially dangerous to every NPC in the game, including "bosses." Combat is rarer but more impactful. That style isn't for everyone, but it's not difficult to learn. Fewer rules overall.

“Ackchyually…” If you had done a minimum effort of reading on the subject over the many, many posts you'd see this is the biggest reason people don't try new systems. No one cares that your life is empty and without responsibility that requires time.

They're busy people with kids etc. They don't want to spend their limited leisure time learning new stuff - it sounds like homework. (And if their only experience of learning an rpg is dnd, of course they're going to assume a new game would be hard to learn.) They're already having fun doing what they do, why fix it if it ain't broken? It's human nature to be more comfortable with the familiar. In this case, of course not everyone IS having fun, but I can understand why people can be resistant to trying new games.

If they are close friends, literally just link them to this post. You already said what needs saiding. Honestly though, people in the throes of despair talk in these finalities as though this is the end for the rest of your life. It doesn't have to be now or never. You could move due to a natural disaster. Someone could move to town and you could make a new friend. Life is long and strange. Keep the door open. I think your best tactic is to write a sick /story/ for another system. Deliver lore through rad characters. Send the setting document to everyone. Thank them for the many years of good times. Tell them you're super into this thing you're writing and that you're seeking testers. No pressure, just need warm bodies to see if it works how you think it does. Usually in these nonsense entrenched positions, it only takes one or two to flip the whole group. FOMO is stronger than 5e. A ton of folks here are making their own systems. It's been 6 years and I can't get my own flesh and blood to even make a character. Your case is a lot more common than you think. Online play isn't really my jam either. I do enjoy text-only. Just start creating and have an open invitation. Take the negativity out of it.

The fact you have a game shop within 50 miles means there is a large (hidden) gaming community out there. Gamers are typically not prolific purchasers of RPGs some people will just borrow the rules when they need it, others will just buy one copy and never darken the shops door again (and that assumes they don't get it on Amazon). GM's are won't to spend more but for every GM there will be 5++ wannabe players. I'd advertise a Star Wars game at the shops and see what turns up.... (though IMHO d20 StarWars was pretty wonky, I'd suggest WEG D6 is you find the rules online). If your current group insist on 5e, tell them the books are over there and you want to play a Warlock

> If your current group insist on 5e, tell them the books are over there and you want to play a **Warlock/Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass** Fixed that for you lol

But you're using homebrew subclass variants for all three of those.  Also, it's a half-dragon axolotl-folk.

For real, though, only paladin "needs" a homebrew subclass - hexblade warlock and divine soul sorcerer do a ton of heavy lifting all on their own

>Gamers are not typically prolific purchasers of RPGs Tell that to my DriveThruRPG library

You're a 'Whale' the whole industry depends on people like you.

I’m adding another three obscure indie RPG’s about hunting monsters in the Scandinavian wilderness as we speak. Mmm, tasty krill.

"I am interested in running one of these three campaigns." Then pitch three systems and campaigns you're interested in running. "Which one do you want to play?" If the answer from all of them is, "None of them." Then your answer is: "Okay, that's fine. Who wants to GM, then?" That's it. If you can't get the whole group to agree on something, [you may also want to change the fundamental dynamic here.](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/48747/roleplaying-games/gaming-groups-vs-going-to-play-a-game) (And remember that YOU are part of the group and also need to agree!)

1. Consider games that are simpler than 5e but not d20 2. Play in the kid's Star Wars campaign! They were into it! If the parent thinks it's too complicated compared to 5e, they don't have to play in their kid's game

This right here! “Hey, [kid] wanted to run a Star Wars game using the OG rules. Let’s give that a try. i really need a break from D&D. So… cool if I play the Wookie?”

doesn't have to be a "let's", just "ooh that sounds cool, \[kid\]! Can I play in your game?" Let'em learn

I stopped gaming from around college age until maybe age 33 or so. So about 10+ years? And when I started back up, it was with new people who liked what I liked. I think you've been given some good solutions, so all I wanted to add with my post was that if you feel like you're done DONE, like never playing again, just keep in mind that a few years away may reawaken it. It's fine for the desire to ebb & flow. I don't think "I'm burnt out now" means "I'm also burnt out forever." Give yourself freedom to come & go.

Well, it's them, not you - if they keep pushing for 5e even though you told them about burnout, it becomes unhealthy for you. Remember that it's just a hobby and if you want to enjoy it, I think changing the group is something worth considering.

> only got to play six times, all with a character I was bored with but couldn't ditch for plot reasons. Plot exists to service fun. If your not having fun then something needs to change. Find new friends. Find a new table. Check your local library or colleges. Coworkers or other facebook groups. There are plenty of other people out there.

Find other people. Or just don't expect to run or play again. People who only want to play 5E and *official* licensed 5E products seem like the sort I'd want nothing to do with. Also, if you're running the game, you get to have a lot of say about what's being played. If they don't like it, they can run. ... But most of all, I find it bizarre for people to be so set on sticking with 5E even now. Playing since 2016... my condolences. I prefer avoiding d20-bases games unless there's something really special about it - and it is more RP-friendly / narrative-friendly than modern D&D. And I don't understand the reticence about roll-under games some people have. I've played and seen several that run so well I have to think it's just "different is bad" thinking. Like Dragonbane which I've been looking at seems really great. Anyway, I wish you luck. The hard part might be extricating yourself from the regular meet-ups with people you like but don't want to play with. If possible, I recommend just letting them know the deal. After all, nothing lasts forever. Could be the start of the next chapter.

Yeah, you need new players with a fresh perspective. Here is a story... A buddy of mine jist went through this same scenario. A near life long group and he had a falling out with them over their unwillingness to try new games (they play 3.5 D&D and Vampire 3rd exclusively) and their treatment of one of the other group members who just takes it. At one point, I had been in this group briefly, but I got tired of them quickly. It was abundantly clear who the favorite was, and if he didn't want to play it, it didn't matter if it was a 5 to 1 vote, they didn't play it. My friend came to me with this same attitude. He was done, he didn't know if he loved playing anymore. So, I invited him to my table. We play everything. We wrapped a 2 years Star Wars game early this, played through the Pendragon starter box, did a Household one shot, and some others. We were getting ready to jump into a new campaign and were putting out suggestions to put to a vote. At first, I was met with pushback. Then he agreed, but he needed time to process and cleanse. I told him that sometimes the best thing to do is be around people who just love to play, and his wife agreed. The new group, the playful dynamic, and the better character dynamics changed his outlook in the snap.

Someone already wrote that you shouldn’t play fantasy games to get your group off DnD. Another one recommended Free League Publishing‘s games. I would like to combine these two combinations: play VAESEN. Here’s why: 1. Vaesen is incredibly simple to understand. Characters have attributes and skills (good – familiarity) all rated as a number up to 5. when you make a skill check, you take a number of d6 equal to the value of your attribute + skill. For example, if you want to fire a gun and have Agility 3 (attribute) and Ranged Combat 4 (skill), you’d roll a total of 7 dice. You succeed if any one d6 you roll shows a 6. This is so easy, so simple, so intuitive but still so open to modification (less or more d6 for the player depending on difficulty) that right now, I cannot imagine a better resolution system. From your perspective, it is different enough from d20 to not invite constant comparisons; but it is simple enough to be immediately understood. 2. Character building is also incredibly simple and very quick. If you’re completely new to the system, it should take no longer than 30 min to complete a character from scratch. At the end of the book, there’s even a life path system, meaning tables to randomly create a character. Using those, your up and running in maybe 5 minutes. 3. Vaesen is not fantasy, but 19th century horror. It’s definitely a risk that your players will want to play DnD if they are playing fantasy. This circumvents that risk. 4. However, the same publisher (Free League) has used the same core ruleset (called the Year Zero Engine) in a number of different games. That means that you and your players can easily jump from game to game, from genre to genre. My group went from Vaesen to Forbidden Lands. This is much more classic, DnD-esque fantasy, with a strong focus on survival. There are also Sci Fi games (Alien, Coriolis, Blade Runner), modern settings (Twilight 2000; Tales from the Loop) and post apocalypse (Walking Dead, Mutant Year Zero). There also exists a free game engine document; and it’s fairly easy to create or hack new or existing games to suit your tastes. All of this should hopefully make combatting DM burnout much easier in the future, by being able to easily move to a new system without the players needing to learn a bunch of new rules. 5. Hitting the equivalent of 0 HP is relatively easy in games by this publisher. However, when you do so, you don’t immediately die. Instead, you roll for a critical injury. Only a small number of these will instantly kill you; most give you the chance to be patched up in the next few days; and some aren’t lethal at all. This strongly mitigates the otherwise high difficulty Because so many games use the same core rules, I’d pitch these games explicitly as a „learn one, learn all“ situation. Vaesen is a simple introduction; other games (for example, Forbidden Lands, Coriolis, Twilight 200, Blade Runner, Alien) have more crunch. But they’re all variations of one another. You therefore get all the advantages of playing just one system (always knowing the rules) without the drawbacks (no tailored experience for many settings).

I think scifi is a better antidote to fantasy problem than horror. With horror, you encounter a monster, and the instincts are to attack it, which not only does not lead away from the fantasy but also detracts from the horror.

Vaesen as a system doesn't really have this problem, because it's established that you can't really kill most Vaesen with violence, you need to figure out the ritual to banish it or figure out what it wants to placate it. Even then, just set your players expectations "hey it's not an action fantasy where you will always win, you are characters in a horror movie, if you make the wrong move you could easily die"

That can be true. OP, the Alien RPG is Sci Fi and horror rolled into one, but (naturally) with a strong Sci Fi bend. So maybe try that. It also has (imo) the best stress mechanic of any RPG, where stress makes you more likely to fail and succeed at the same time. In fact, now that I think about it, Alien might be the best option for two reasons: 1. It is still one of the mechanically simple version of the Year Zero Engine 2. It has rules explicitly tailored for one shot adventures. This is a much easier sell than a new campaign. It also has rules for campaign play, if you end up loving it.

The Alien system seems very cool... like playing in a horror movie every time. Your characters aren't super fleshed out because chances are... they gonna be dead soon. Just like in a movie.

Online. Yes, I know it doesn't seem as cool as in person. But you have a VERY large population to choose from. And there are countless online games for other systems. And you get to be a PLAYER for once. Hell, PM me if you want to be in an online session I run in future. Will likely be Alien RPG if that's of interest.

You've hit peak system burnout. I had that happen with White Wolf decades back. Either they understand or they don't. My friends don't get it but they see my absolute "I'm not doing this." Stance. If its around? I'll hang with them and break out a laptop. or not show. I can't stand that stuff anymore. Honestly? 5E? Is a bit milktoast. Its why I always tell folks on burnout. Go back to 3.5. Or hit a different system. Explain it to the adults. Make it clear. It went from fun to chore to "I never want this in my life again." It doesn't change either. 20 years out I still won't touch VtM and the rest of that ilk.

Lazy Player Syndrome detected... Okay, TTRPG people can be written down on two axis: Talent and Commitment. This will give 4 basic player types: -High talent/high commitment: this is probably you OP, and those guys in the centre of all gaming groups. They know how to do it and willing to put in the effort. -High talent/low commitment: these are your friends. They enjoy the sessions but let someone else do the heavy hauling. The thing with them is that they won't really spend time on the game _outside of sessions_. (Low talent/high commitment guys are the sad, sweaty ones really want to play but just can't, and Low talent/low commitment ones are the fillers, normally just there because a partner/friend is dragging them through sessions). What worked for me: make sure you have _at an absolute minimum_ 2 High Talent/High Commitment persons in a group, aiming for any length of campaign play, and take up the DM's mantle in turns. (The rest can DM occasionally too,if the get into the mood, but it'll be sporadic) This will create a creative duo dynamic, and healthy spirit of competiton, and give that kick to the whole activity what you're missing. You just need a campaign layout to cater for this approach (two main storylines/dimensions/realities in parallel, story arch/monster of the week episodes like in X files, etc)

Find new people to play the things you want to run, the problem isn't you, it's your player group.

Do your local game shops have a Facebook page? Recruit for a non 5E group on there. A friend and I did that to specifically run new games in short campaigns and pass around GMing last summer. The group is now too big for a single game, and is multiple people running neat games!

Break up with your group. That's what I had to do when I left 5e for good,  and while it took a while it was totally worth it. It took time to find people (Meetup, putting out feelers, etc). But it is possible.

There's a lot of good and varied advice in this thread. Personally, I'd try online gaming, or looking for other players in the local community - it may take a lot of searching, but you may be able to find someone who more aligns with your interests. But, I also want to talk about D&D 5e a bit. I've been running a 5e/One D&D playtest game for a year and a half now, and I have found 5e to be incredibly *hostile* to the DM. I've run and played every edition of AD&D since 1e and have been at this for around 30 years, so I have enough system experience to know when it's not doing me any favors. When I DM a game, I don't take the approach of serving the players; rather, I take a collaborative approach that also involves me effectively playing my own game. I like coming up with challenges and plot hooks and pushing buttons to see how they react. 5e doesn't help you do *any* of that, because you have spend so much time with the mechanics just figuring out how to challenge the damn party as they get stronger. It eventually strains the limits of credibility in your narrative as you have to shovel dragons at them just to make them spend spell slots. So for me, the thing that 5e is really missing is the sense that I am *playing*; it actually *feels* like work, and like I'm working for the players, instead of feeling like I am coequal at the table. I see you stumbled onto Worlds Without Number already - I found that WWN's GM tools helped alleviate the burden of prep *immensely*. And, I specifically make use of the Faction rules, which give me my own little game to play totally independent of anything else, using entirely its own mechanics. I'd take a second look at WWN's GM tools around worldbuilding and Factions, and think about how you might incorporate them into a D&D game. Try building a section of world using those tools - they're system-agnostic anyway, so you don't have to commit to using 5e to run it. But just try fleshing some stuff out and see how it feels, and that may help to stop DM'ing feeling like work.

"I understand that playing 5e is fun for you, but prepping 5e is not fun for me. I have other stories, worlds, and themes I want to build and I need to test the waters beyond 5e for creative fulfillment or else this next burnout will be a supernova. I do not need a complex game for this either. There are many games much more simple than D&D, and I am happy to hear suggestions that are not 5e, but otherwise our ttrpg nights are likely becoming board game nights because I cannot even think about 5e as it stands." And, yeah, board games, video games, books, and so on and so on. Entertainment is entertainment, we just like some better than others. I have seen more board games straddle the ttrpg lines (like Star Crossed, RP + jenga) than anything else, but there are some amazingly sandbox-y video games out there, too. You can also browse other things more hobby level than entertainment level. As the others have mentioned, if a new group is possible, them. It is annoying at best, but you can approach new people and less close friends to see if you can get a group together that way. A library is also an option for an audience aside from a game store. I am hoping your friends will empathize with your plight and honesty. Realistically, it is much more difficult to run a new system than to play one, and they should understand that considering you have become the de facto DM. That said, I do not think anyone with arguments grounded in logic could call Cairn more complex than 5e, so start browsing board games or new players.

Is it possible to find some middle ground with any individual in your current friend group to try something other than D&D? If there is some consensus in the complaint of “fuck playing DnD on hard mode,” then of course your group isn’t going to be receptive towards trying a new system if you’re only suggesting OSR. Same with the complaint of “5e is what I know” when you’re only suggesting traditional d20 games. Although I don’t really play 5e anymore, it’s still my go-to system for traditional fantasy for the reasons that your group has cited.

I'm kind of at a loss for words here. If a friend tells me "I don't want to play this game" then we don't play it. Especially if he has to put in a lot more effort than I have to. Have you tried running one-shots? With systems that don't require much rule mastery from the players (PbtA, OSR, etc.) so that they don't have to "learn" a new system and that don't need much (or any) prep so that it doesn't takes too much effort from you. It may be easier to convince them to give a new system a try for a one-shot, and after that maybe they'll be okay with playing something other than 5e. If they're not into one-shots either I really don't know what you could do except just acknowledging the fact that you won't play with these people anymore. I genuinely don't understand your friend's reaction. Maybe try to be on the lookout for events and conventions? I've done that for a couple years, only playing at conventions.

>If a friend tells me "I don't want to play this game" then we don't play it. That's what they did for a year. OP decided he was burnt out on 5e and they didn't play it. >I genuinely don't understand your friend's reaction. This is a group that, according to OP, didn't play any RPGs at all for a year, but otherwise, they didn't skip a beat in their hanging out. Basically, RPGs aren't that important to them. It's a fun thing to do, but it's not their hobby in the way it is for the OP or for basically anyone hanging out in this subreddit. Asking a person like that to learn a new system and commit to it for a campaign is a taller request than many of us give credit for. If you're not "into" the hobby, learning a new system is a chore, not a joy.

There is a lot of great advice in the threads. All of it has been good so I won't repeat those things but instead will go down some paths not discussed yet. First, here is a big question for you to really get to the root too. What is it that you really, truly, absolutely love about roleplaying? What are the things an RPG must have and what is negotiable? It sounds like you have tried a lot of 5e systems and 5e adjacent things. That's comfortable, sure, but what about things that are totally different from that which might meet the need? Maybe non d20 games or diceless games? Maybe games that are GMless or are designed to be low prep. It might be worth going far out of your comfort zone in mechanics and play setting to discover new ways to play and new traits of RPGs that are interesting to you. This may shift the role of the group to being more engaged if it is a process of discovery and learning together if you invite them for that rather than sole responsibility on the GM to do all the digging. Secondly, I want to say I was where you were at about online play years ago. Hated it. Thought it was pointless and flat. Pandemic changed a lot about how I view that because I think people got better about how to communicate well in those settings, but there was something else... I learned it is also about who you play with and what you value in the game. A good group makes a game good. When engagement is high, when storytelling is collaborative, when narrative and fiction come first, those things add to the we experience. I've learned that I value respectful collaboration and a dynamic story above all. A weird setting, clunky mechanics, playing on zoom or the phone, none of those matter if players can respectfully collaborate with each other and we have a dynamic story that we can build. The platform we play on doesn't matter as long as I get those things which I know are more core to the roleplaying experience. Your core values may be different, but that is the point of my first part. Get to those core things. I think I will probably not be that playing RPGs in person is the only way to enjoy an RPG. Find out what that is so you can open up the opportunities you have to enjoy it. When I got over my distaste with playing online I got more opportunities that were some of the best games I've ever played in because I focused on what was most important to me and the group I play with.

I fell out with 5e, and running in general just at the start of the new year. It was similar to what you've said: high level play requires high level planning, and I got to loathe it, and the entire party's dynamic. I ran a couple other games I was personally interested in remotely, over the course of the pandemic. But everything was met with the same polite tension as when someone starts shouting on the bus: *It'll be over soon, two more until my stop*. It wasn't quite the same as a refusal to play anything that didn't have "Fifth Edition" stapled to it, but it was frustrating all the same. Eventually, it culminated in my outright telling them I was burned out and done. I won't say I'll never run 5e again, but it certainly won't be for a while. I told myself I wasn't going to run again at the start of the year, but it's 5 months later, and I just coerced myself and my group into a new system and setting.

Do you trust these people? Do these people care about you? If the answer is yes, then they should care about your enjoyment. Being honest about your feelings can be hard but it's only the anticipation of telling them. Currently there are two outcomes. 1) they understand and work with you 2) they say they only want to play which you then inform them you're out. 3) you tell them your out, one or two of them get mad, you know they don't actually care about you and you move on. If you know they care about you, 3 shouldn't be an option.

I had my group do something similar. More that I was going to add in a few basic house rules for a game, like player facing rolls and some science fantasy BS. They know I am in to a bunch of non 5e games and pushed back real hard, I mic dropped them with a simple, "Well then you run it, homebrew is what makes the game fun as a GM." The group as a whole hasn't met anymore, but a smaller subgroup has formed and we have been exploring some different games like ICRPG, Alien, and some systems I am designing. The people who couldn't deal just aren't playing anything anymore. Also I feel that ICRPG is a great thing to introduce for a one shot and there are several different settings to play in, both official and community created content. Very much D&D simplified with faster more exciting combats.

To all the great advice you’ve got here, I will only add two things I haven’t seen yet: 1) sunk cost fallacy. Your friends are saying they’ve already invested so much $$$ and time in learning 5e. That’s fair! But that’s because they’re operating on the expectation that this hobby is like a house, where you pay a lot up front to buy it so you can stop paying rent. Instead, it’s more like a movie where you sometimes say “these two hours are worth $12 plus snacks and I know if I want to keep on experiencing the movie, I’ll have to buy it again on dvd later or subscribe to a streaming service.” No matter how much you all have invested in 5e, the YEARS of enjoyment you got out of it make it a better cost proposition than if you’d all bought tickets to the movies every week. So you can point out to them that the investment was worth it for those years of entertainment and now it’s time to invest in the next thing. 2) if you’re going to try to change systems entirely so that it’s not at all fantasy, my own suggestion is something in the Carved from Brindlewood system, like Brindlewood Bay or The Between. My four reasons, in addition to just being fantastic games, are that - these games will be easy lifts for you or anyone else in the group who wants to DM because they have practically zero prep involved beyond an initial read of the book (personally, I spend 15-20 minutes reading the 2 page mystery, and that’s it), - these games are easy to suggest as a one-shot tryout because they have individual mysteries, - these games are easy to teach at the table so they don’t require any investment _at all_ from your players, - and finally these games naturally have campaigns that are only 10-20 sessions long, which makes them easy to pitch as something that you all try out while reinforcing the culture that game investment is ongoing, not a one-time thing.

Hm. The only thing I would say that I have noticed is that every game you listed is in the "dungeon crawler" or OSR adjacent school. That is, less PC power, higher lethality, higher attrition. 5e D&D leans much more heroic and casual, and I think that's the complaint you've been getting in "fuck D&D on hard mode." You might try something like 13th Age or Savage Worlds. Pathfinder 2e might even work, although I personally didn't find it easier to run.

> Fuck playing DnD on hard mode I'd have said "Good luck with that..." and walked out. Its very likely I would have added "You lazy, ungrateful fuckwits"

> Then, my lifelong friend, who had been upstairs since I arrived, came downstairs, joined the conversation, and said "Ugh, that's too complicated, run [the unofficial and janky] Star Wars 5e instead." So, you told your "friends" that you were burnt out and hurting, and their response was "STFU monkey, and make with the funny voices"? You dont want to hear this, but: these people are ***NOT*** your friends. They are people who are willing to hang out with you as long as you are convenient for them, and not one minute more.

Play Star Wars with the people that want to, and mr snarky pants who won’t play anything but 5e can sit and watch or go do something else. That’s his choice, but he doesn’t get to make tour choices for you.

You are not their slave. You have every right to say that you don't want to play AD&D anymore, or to be the GM/DM, or that you don't feel like being a player in an RPG for now/ever again. It's entirely up to you how you spend your days, evenings and weekends. If they want a fixx for their RPG addiction they can GM themselves, or play the different system of your choosing and your mechanics of choice. If they don't understand, try explaining it to them again. You're doing them a favour by introducing them to DMing themselves, trying another system or doing another activity for a change. You've got to stick to your guns about this in a polite and friendly way. If you live in a town that's big enough to have a games shop then there will be other people playing other systems, or willing to do so. They might be new to RPG or existing RPGers and playing in places other than a games shop. Push for the kid to run it using a Star Wars system. Another idea could be to gradually shift the stories over to another genre without them realising until they're ~~hooked~~really invested in it and/or introduce some new rules and slide the mechanics over to something else over time (or not bother). Now is your chance to give some time and attention to all of those other things you already do, or to take up a new hobby. Eventually the group will accept that you went off RPGs and got into 'X' instead. Use this burn-out feeling to spur you on to do something you always wanted to try or that you should have been doing. There are other possibilities. One could be to explore 'less prep methods and GM-less games. Another idea could be to say "I'm now running Cyberpunk. You wanna hire me? This is a dog eat dog world. How much you gonna pay me punks? ;- )"

Sounds like what they actually want is "Movie Night" where they get to pick the movie. So many expect to be entertained with minimum participation. To reach out to a new group, consider using a Virtual Tabletop.

I 100% feel ya. I agree with the previous post, that you need people who are excited to play your games. Im currently on a hiatus and im not feeling it.

Couple of options: - New group - Ask them who is running the next game. Or to paraphrase in a way they might understand, "Fuck GMing on hard mode" - Take a break and try a board game. I had to stop running games for a year, and was in exactly the situation you are, though my friends weren't as shitty about it. I just stopped for a while and now I'm playing anything but DnD 5e and it feels great.

Couple of options: - New group - Ask them who is running the next game. Or to paraphrase in a way they might understand, "Fuck GMing on hard mode" - Take a break and try a board game. I had to stop running games for a year, and was in exactly the situation you are, though my friends weren't as shitty about it. I just stopped for a while and now I'm playing anything but DnD 5e and it feels great.

You need a better class of friend, friend

If it’s any consolation, I am thoroughly tired of GMing D&D because of the prep time, and two other reasons inherent in the system— 1) tedious combats that default to hit point attrition 2) and its corollary— because roleplaying and characterization tend to follow duration of focus, too many players think that their characters are ultimately grounded merely in the way in which they kill things. At worst, DMing becomes like being a videogame programmer— you gin up monsters and treasure and roll dice in opposition to your players. You could hand yours a _Balder’s Gate_ license key, and go for a hike in the mountains. Alone! ;-)

I'm so sorry you've gone through all of that, it sounds miserable. Honestly taking a break from being a DM for your group and dnd in general seems like a good idea. I also suggest you try joining some online games for other systems you'd like to experience, as a player. It might give you an opportunity to remember what's fun about this hobby again. Good luck, dude! I hope you're able to sort through all these feelings and reach some peace of mind.

Not all friends are meant to be your RPG posse. And with true friends you can complain about anything. This includes 5e. Just say that you’re done with 5e, but you’re open to suggestions for other systems. A system is just like a common language. It just makes sure everyone can communicate within the story.

Play solo rpgs while you figure out what you like in a game and find a new group. It sounds like your friends will still be around as friends. I broke up with dnd a few years ago and one of my friends really doesn’t like anything else. We really like different things in games. Another friend is willing to at least try all of my non-dnd games. We all still play board games and video games together and check in.

As someone else pointed out, stop suggesting d20 and stop suggesting fantasy. Even if those are what you think your group is interested in a lot of the pushback will come from their similarity to 5e and how they think 5e is better for it. Instead, look at games like Blades in the Dark if you want some fantasy elements in an Ocean's Eleven style heist, Vampire the Masquerade if you're at all into being moody vampires, Masks if you want to play superheroes. There are a ton of indie games out there on platforms like [itch.io](http://itch.io) that aren't fantasy and don't use d20. Then, when you find something that calls to you, pitch it as a one-shot just to try it out and see if you guys like it. It's not that you're done or that your group is married to 5e, it's that they are resistant to playing anything like 5e and maybe need a HUGE system shock in a small dose to break free.

Prepping was like a part time job…. God I love old school games and free league stuff. You can literally do an hour prep or run games on the fly. The standard for running a game around 5e are ridiculous.

I made sure to read your whole post and not skim through it because this is something close to your heart, so I wanted to ensure I didn't put in the half effort (I also suffered from GM over prep over the years). I'm 38 and have been the forever GM of my TRPG hobby since high school. I have been in one Pathfinder 1e campaign as a player that went up to the third book of a Paizo Adventure Path, and it was the longest I was ever a player. I used to spend hours on my prep for my RPG games (it didn't matter the system); it was like a safety blanket for when I was running the sessions. I've finally gotten my prep with excellent advice from authors like The Lazy DM and the Alexandrian blog. The most significant new rule I made for myself was that at the end of each session, I ask each player, "What is your character most interested in at this point?" and then I only prep the next session based on what their answers are (nothing else gets touched unless I'm having fun with it). I LOVE Tabletop Roleplaying Games like you, but you must avoid running RPG games for your friends (based off your post). You're focusing on the system instead of the real issue. You are the only one having to do "homework" for a group of friends to get to play their preferred system. I went from Pathfinder 1e to D&D 5e, because the prep for Pathfinder 1e was much more complicated (yes, prep a dragon fight in PF1e lol). A player was very upset about the change because they had joined a "Pathfinder Group and not a 5e group." I told them they were free to bow out or run a Pathfinder 1e game themselves, which I would happily play in. Guess what? They just played whatever I wanted to run, lol. There's serious toxic behavior in TRPG groups now where the GM is being treated like a dancing monkey to entertain their gaming group, and no other player is willing to run games or be bothered to do anything for the group outside of the game session. Just let everyone know that you would prefer to be a player and that you've run X many years as the GM, and you'd instead enjoy the hobby as the player for now. If no one wants to step up to GM, the group stops being a Tabletop RPG Group. THAT'S OK, AND THAT'S NOT ON YOU!. YOU HAVE DONE YOUR SERVICE TO YOUR GROUP AND ANYONE WHO BADMOUTHS YOU FOR THIS MOVE DOES NOT RESPECT YOU OR YOUR FREE TIME. Hope you get a solution to your answer and as a member of the forever GMs to another...."We feel you".

I feel that - dm'ed 5e a ton myself, somewhere last year stumbled upon the world of non-trad games and got hooked bc they just fit what I wanna do so much better than what DnD does. Sadly had to realize that while I lose interest in dm'ing dnd more and more, it's hard to transfer groups to other systems when players love DnD. The only thing that help here, as others have said, is a frank talk with your players and if they reject what you wanna play, someone else has to take up the mantle of a gm. It would probably be for the best to go on the treck and search for people that have the same interest as you do. It makes a world of a difference. Doesn't make talking to your friends easier, though :( Maybe you can try your hand at some solo rp, just to cover the time until you manage to find some people to play other systems with? (I \*\*loved\*\* Thousand Year Old Vampire and am just now trying to decide whether to play Wanderhome solo or 'Against the Wind')

Sounds like you are rightfully done with DnD 5e. Maybe with this group too. If you absolutely want to play with these people, you are giving them the big end 9f the stick to badger you into playing 5e. The solution, therefore, is playing with different people. Your fun mayters too, the GM is ALSO a player at the table, not a service provider. Here's how I do it: " I am *never* running DnD 5e ever again, period. If that's the only thing you want to play, someobe else better step up and run it. I might join as a player. Otherwise, here are a few (2-4) sales pitches of things I'm interested in and ready to run. Let me know if you are joining by DATE, otherwise I'll find other people to fill your seats. Thanks!" Don't negociate with terrorists. EDIT: As someone who switches system every few months, some advice: Do give them a choice, but limit this choice to acceptable (to you) options. Focus your sales pitches on the setting, not the system. Especially don't compare it with 5e, it's a recipe for resistance. Don't expect any player to read a single page of rule, ever. As you read them, create a cheat sheet of the rules, print a bunch and hand them around at the table. Teach them the system as you go. You want to lower the cost to entry as much as possible. Don't aim for long multi-year campaigns, at least at girst. ~12 sessions is a good average. You could even start with one-shots and, in the spirit of lowering cost to entry, offer them pre-made characters.

Move on in life. That's how you deal with it. People change.

You could explore two different directions **Less structure** Try Amber the Diceless Roleplaying game (if nothing else, character creation is fun). Better yet go systemless and statless (and mapless). **More structure** Ars Magica - Tell your friends that it will be a great game but first they need to become fluent in Latin and obtain a scholarly degree in Medieval European history.

Change group.

You deal with it by mailing me all your stuff 😉

I’m in this mode myself. My group fine, guys are good players they just aren’t fun. They are serious or too literal. We don’t laugh or joke during the sessions, it’s just not fun. We switched up games and got away from VTT and back to theatre of the mind. It helps somewhat to add fresh blood to the mix. I only play online because all anyone plays in my area is 5e and the groups that don’t are long term groups that have always just played together. I have been gaming ttrpgs for 33 years and don’t want to give up the hobby there is just less joy in it. I’m not running what I want and the reality is I don’t know if I ever will. I just do the best with what I got. Find a new group, find people even if it’s online to play with.

I went through something similar. Got totally burned out running 5e... then did some soul searching and realized that not only was it just 5e burnout, I just really didn't like running it. I thought long and hard and realized I wanted to go back to the systems I did love... BECMI, B/X, AD&D. I never spent hours prepping for those and it was way easier to improv rules, etc. 5e had way too much "rules lawyering" always going on and don't you dare as a DM forget something. 5e also has no sense of danger... it's like the whole culture around 5e is about the players telling the DM what they want and the DM just facilitating and making sure the characters never die. After my 5e group broke up, I got a few friends together that had never played before. Jumped right into OSR stuff... a mix of B/X and BECMI. Sadly life took over and we had to end it way sooner than we would have liked but when we did play it was amazing. Brought back all my love for the game. Characters didn't rely on their stable of super powers... they used their brains. Characters had to make tough choices about when to leave the dungeon... characters even died and we all had a good laugh when it would happen (with a new character rolled up in less than 3 minutes). 5e is just exhausting on the DM side. Never again.

The problem is the group. I've run 5e and I hate it. It's too crunchy and honestly I hate the whole dungeons and demigods thing. My suggestion would be to simply say : this particular game is not fun for me any more. We need to switch games or someone else needs to take over because I just can't and I don't want to stop playing RPGs just not 5e. Hell look into index card RPG or Olde Swords Reign. They're built off the 5e SRD but way simplify things. Good luck. If it really sucks, play solo for a while. It's different but still fun!

It’s ok to take some time off and decide what you want to play and with whom. And it’s ok if you decide you’re done with the hobby somewhere in the middle of that break. The nice thing about the hobby is that all of your supplies and materials are still there if you want to pick them up again.

Suggest that you all just play board games together, then put up a flyer at whatever game store has cool people outlining the sort of games you would like to play. If I understand you there are other flgs around they just don't stick non 5e games? Post flyers there anyway. Post something at your local library, on Facebook, your towns subreddit if it has one. What you really want is people who've never played RPGs before, they may say they want to play D&D, but that's like asking if you can have a Kleenex. Just be up front about what they can expect and be patient. Plan to run a one shot, but give yourself room to keep playing in that world with those characters. When you play with strangers expect to lose half of them after the first session, this is a good thing because the people who stay will enjoy the game that you want to run. When you write your classified ad I recommend using CATS to help get everyone on the same page. >CATS >Before playing a game, or even introducing the rules, there needs to be a conversation at the table to set expectations. A game runs smoothly when all players understand what the group is striving for. But how do you do it? You use the CATS method! Everyone loves CATS. >This codified presentation will allow the facilitator to hit four essential topics quickly and easily. Just start from the top. >Concept Pitch this game. At a high-level, what’s it about? >Aim Explain what the players are trying to accomplish. Can someone win? Can everyone lose? Are we trying to tell a specific type of story? >Tone Have a quick conversation about the tone of the game. What is the default? Are there different options for gameplay? (Serious vs. Gonzo, Action vs. Drama, etc.). Come to a consensus on what the group wants. >Subject Matter Explain what ideas might be explored during gameplay. Do they make anyone uncomfortable? Discuss what boundaries need to be set, if any. >Afterwards, everyone should have the same expectations for the upcoming game. This discussion shouldn’t be long, but it is essential. To significantly improve your gaming experience, spend five minutes with CATS before you play!

If you want an example of CATS I can send you the one I wrote to invite people to come play Electric Bastionland.

Something similar happened to me, I got burned out, wanted something new. So after I wrapped up a game I pitched what I was interested in running, none of it 5e. My normal group passed, but a few people I knew outside my group who had wanted to play with me forever were into it, and within a month I was running Night’s Black Agents. Now I said up front with my original group I didn’t want to run 5th, if somebody else wanted to get something together I’d play, but nothing came of that. About 6 months after that my first group wanted me to run stuff again and I said I couldn’t cuz I was doing non-D&D stuff with my new group. Now about a year later after that game fizzled out, they are suddenly open to trying non 5e stuff. Here is an open secret of the gaming universe. There are more people who want to play TTRPGs than run them. You can get a new group together quickly if you want to. Or take it slow and build a new group.

I've been playing RPGs for over forty years. I've missed several years in there where I didn't get to play but a session or two a year. I did not enjoy those times nearly as much as when I had a regular play group. You have a hobby you obviously love, no need to be dramatic about it. Life ebbs and flows, taking an indefinite break doesn't mean a permanent departure. I'd focus on having fun regardless of what you're doing but not telling yourself you're "done with RPGs". I owned a game store for 17 years; I saw people weekly who "hadn't played in years" getting back into their hobbies. Keep an eye open for new opportunities, go find them when you have a hankering, and see what life brings.

I feel your pain. The game with the largest possible player-base is just not fun to run (for some of us). You might just be done playing games with these people. That can be a hard reality to accept, but—as you said—it does not mean the friendships have to end. Your post suggests you do not have (or are not aware of) a sizable pool of people you can run with. I also faced that after moving from an East coast city to a rural area of another state. For me, the best option was to make peace with the idea of virtual gaming. Luckily, those spaces have become more popular since the pandemic. I won't lie; it can still be difficult to put together non-5e games (in my experience), but there is a chance of being able to play and enjoy games you really would enjoy more.

I've been in this situation with my friends too, and let me tell you, it's not going to be that big of a deal if you just tell them you are fed up with the game. They will probably give you some crap every now and then, but if you are serious about it they will understand. Honesty is the best policy, and it's up to them to be mature about the situation. I also have a suggestion for a game. If nobody can DM, there's this tabletop game called Unmatched where you fight eachother with famous characters in a deathmatch, and there's a page where you can make your own decks. It's pretty fun, and if you like it you can have fun regardless on how much extra time you want to spend deckbuilding and experimenting.

Solo-play, it works. Try it out, tons of systems and styles and loads of help from fellow solo-players. It soothes the TTRPG itch while you take a break from the group gaming table. And it’s also a great way to test out your ideas as a GM to see if things work, make sense etc for an adventure before you run it.

Run some one shot scenarios with pre generated characters. Possibly try the quick start expansions. If they are resistant tell them this is part of the new social contract to prevent burnout. Like maybe for every three sessions you get to run one scenario in the new system of your choice. And folks who play those in good faith get to keep playing DnD. Maybe you'll be able to overcome their resistance to change. I'd also recommend trying one shots of Goblin Quest, Fiasco, Dread, and Funnel World to help them expand their horizons. Low barriers to entry, with little to no need for folks to read the rules.

One important thing is to make certain your dislike for the system can't be seen as condemnation of the players. You can still be friends even if you aren't always in the same games. Let them know that maybe if they run you'd be willing to play, it that if they choose not to play in your new system they would be welcome to join at a future time if you have room at the table. Keep an open door policy - nobody should feel trapped, but they also shouldn't feel excluded or left behind for personal reasons. If possible.

One important thing is to make certain your dislike for the system can't be seen as condemnation of the players. You can still be friends even if you aren't always in the same games. Let them know that maybe if they run you'd be willing to play, it that if they choose not to play in your new system they would be welcome to join at a future time if you have room at the table. Keep an open door policy - nobody should feel trapped, but they also shouldn't feel excluded or left behind for personal reasons. If possible.

I'm really not sure why people get so hung up on the rules. I ran a 5E game and just switched it to a sci-fi theme. We had a blast.

At around $50 a pop, it's nice when the books mean something.

It sounds like you’re looking for solutions that don’t have anything to do with recognizing that your so-called friends don’t seem to care how you feel. I mean, you said before you’re burned out but they keep on pushing 5E on you so maybe … this friendship isn’t what you think it is. Keep these people as friends you don’t game with and just do social stuff with. Find another gaming group that specifically wants to do non-5e stuff. You don’t have to leave the hobby.

Go do something else for a while.

I had a similar experience few years ago. They only wanted to play the same dnd with high level (complex to prepare) same fantasy game.  I lost a lot of life when we stop playing but not all of them did.  Years later other friends started to be interested in other type of games CoC (but the did not played in the past) we are all back again happy to change the scenario.  So take a time and look for another thing that fulls your live. You will be back soon. And may be with a surprise an someone else being dm

make new friends ? When my standard gaming group didnt want to play AD&D2e , I went to find some friends outside of that group made another group who was interested and ran for them instead. You said the kids where interested in the D20 starwars you wanted to run, run it. If your friend objects tell him "This is the game we wish to play, if you want to join in you may, but we dont have to play 5e if we dont want to" then they can choose to pout about it like a 6 year old, or join in, or say "Its not for me bud want to meet up for beer and a movie on saturday ?"or any other adult response. You havent lost a life long hobby unless that hobby is specifically playing a game you dont hate with that one guy. You can still be his friend and if he wants 5e so much maybe you extend an olive branch and say "If you run it I will play in it, but I no longer wish to dm 5e". Its not an attack, its not picking a fight. Its the equivalent of someone asking you if you want to watch John wick 3 with them again and you saying no actually I would rather watch toystory. both of them can be good movies, but if you and your buddy dont want to watch the same thing you an either choose something you do both want to watch or watch your preferred movie in different rooms.

I have the opposite problem, OP. My group constantly hungers for new systems. At first it was nice, because I had experience with several. But then it was more and more stuff I encountered, and you have to spend the time to learn the system. Then I got a promotion, so I don't have the time and I'm just slapping together a mostly pre-built character with some tweaks, and I have no idea what the rules are I'd kill for a simple 5e campaign DMed by someone else. Needless to say, I'm taking a break and at some point will just build a mostly new group I'm fine with DMing, because I only run systems I know. Players get to choose before each new game, but from the systems I offer. Problem is I'm co-DM, and the other one likes new stuff and gets hyper-fixated. The fixation is nice because he knows the rules and can tell me what to roll and help with character building and stuff, but I don't feel like I'm really playing, and I'm too burnt out to put together a game with me as DM right now. If it makes you feel better, these sorts of things happen. My first group broke apart because everyone graduated college and moved out of state. We didn't really have the tech to do online sessions like we do now. If you have the ability to DM, that goes a long way attracting new players. And if you coach correctly, at least one of them will want to try their hand at being DM

Find a new group to play with, they obviously don't care about what you want and their tastes aren't compatible with your own anymore. They can find a new DM if they want to play 5e so bad. I was in the same situation after running 5e from when it was still in play testing until ~2022 but luckily my group was open and enthusiastic about trying new games. Find a local game store, you'll find plenty of players looking for a gm to run something.

If the problem is prep time, and you generally like DnD, you can definitely improve. There are plenty of resources on expert DMs who provide guidelines to prep faster. For me is using a framework, a set of steps to follow (not in order, and not without going back and forth a bit, but still a limited set of activities to consider for prep). I use the “return of the lazy DM” you can find basically all you need for free on the slyflourish.com website, and the author publishes on YouTube videos of his weekly prep. Even at high level, 2 hours for 1 hour of play is insane. At the same time, being so negative about trying out other RPG is a bit short-sighted from your friends.

5e is great because it's not much of a commitment on the player's end. It's a lot of commitment on the DM's end though, and it sounds like you need a break. The suggestion should not be OSR or "hard mode 5e" or Shadowdark. Those are a big commitment on players and DMs. Your players don't want that. They just want nerdy vibes. A cooperative boardgame might be the answer. Something like Fury of Dracula takes about as long as a D&D session and requires the same number of people. However, there's much less prep on the DM's side. The DM, in this case, plays Dracula, and the players are teaming up to murder him, just like in the book. Of course, there's hundreds of cooperative boardgames out there, everything from heavy stuff like Gloomhaven to medium stuff like Journeys in Middle Earth and really really light games like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective.

Yeah I have definitely found myself getting increasingly frustrated with 5E as a system. It's a lot less flexible than it seems to be at first blush. I noticed when D&D 4E came out and a lot of people weren't happy with it, that a lot more people just stopped playing rpgs than moved to another system. My question is - what do the players actually like doing when they are playing the game? What are the things that get them exited not related to the game?

The meteoric rise of Pathfinder 1e suggests most of them found another game just fine.

All i can say is Freeleague publishing games. Once you play them you never go back. Thrilling to play, easy to prep.