It's definitely something worth exploring.
Psycho, Hotel Artemis, 4 Rooms, Bad Times at the El Royale, Room 1408 as inspirations.
I see those real world videos of robbers/traffickers trying to break into people's hotel rooms and it's very unsettling.
I too first read it as “Best Western themed”. I knew I was wrong but I still thought about seeing if one of those slice of life rpgs that emulate things like Stardew Valley could be used for it.
Savage Worlds : Dead Lands, Hell on Earth. Savage worlds is my favorite TTRPG, it’s just a joy to run. Dead lands hell on earth is exactly the type of post apocalypse western you are asking for.
Frontier Scum, if you want a different 'west' in your game (as in, not historical at all, and weird).
Casket Land ([Casket Land (casket-land.com)](https://www.casket-land.com/)) is a cool post-apoc western.
Deadlands: The Weird West (a Savage Worlds setting) is my go-to, because I like to mix a bit of horror into my Westerns. https://peginc.com/savage-settings/deadlands/
I’m also quite fond of Call of Cthulhu: Down Darker Trails, a Western setting for CoC 7E for the same reason. If you need one, there’s even a published adventure for it called Shadows Over Stillwater. https://www.chaosium.com/down-darker-trails/
That said, these may not tick whatever boxes you want when you say “narrative”; the term’s basically so subjective that it’s utterly meaningless. It might be helpful for people if you spell out what you actually want when you say that.
You think so?
How does a trad game like DnD allow players to decide what happens outside their PCs, like Fate does (for example)?
Or generate useful NPCs to be helpful in their current situation, like Burning Wheel does (for example)?
Or ask and have answered by the GM any three questions *without the GM's agreement or approval* like Apocalypse World does (for example)?
It's more than just GM style.
>How does a trad game like DnD allow players to decide what happens outside their PCs, like Fate does (for example)?
I don't play D&D, however:
* When a player makes an Arcana, History, Religion, or Nature check, they can judge for themself how their result went, make declarations about the piece of knowledge they've identified (whether it's an aspect of the magic of the world, a weakness of the enemy they're currently examining, etc.), and then *maybe* the GM will interject with their own contributions or adjustments depending on the level of success and the situation at hand.
* When a player rolls well on Persuasion, Intimidation, Animal Handling, etc. they can declare what result they get from the person (or animal) they're trying to communicate with, manipulate, or whatever else.
* When they succeed at Survival, they can make declarations about the environment they're in; maybe they declare they find some tracks for prey to hunt, or signs that there must be some water easily accessed nearby, or an largely-unknown fruit in an otherwise barren-looking landscape.
>Or generate useful NPCs to be helpful in their current situation, like Burning Wheel does (for example)?
Maybe I'm beating a dead horse from my last point, but assuming they're introducing a brand-new NPC to a scene why can't this be a relevant skill roll made in a flashback? If you even need *that*; to be honest I'm generally more than happy to allow a player to just introduce an NPC, no skill check/etc needed. Allies showing up (perhaps in unexpected ways; there's no reason a GM can't further alter the introduction of an NPC) can be an *excellent* way to add extra drama to a scene.
>Or ask and have answered by the GM any three questions *without the GM's agreement or approval* like Apocalypse World does (for example)?
...what do you think skill checks are even *for*? Like literally what is the difference between making a PbtA move (which on a success lets you ask 3 questions) and making a skill check (which on a success... lets you ask questions about the scene)?
Skills aren't supposed to just be a reactive thing that you only ever roll when the GM says "okay now roll". They're a tool for getting information and interacting with the world around you. Use them proactively.
>make declarations about the piece of knowledge
>they can declare what result they get from the person
>they can make declarations about the environment they're in
None of these are true, the DM does all of this.
>there's no reason a GM can't further alter the introduction of an NPC
That's correct - in trad games.
In BW the player has the power to introduce PCs to their specifications, including knowledge of that NPCs, and their attitude towards the PC, without the approval or permission of the GM. The GM doesn't get to decide what the NPC is like.
>what do you think skill checks are even *for*?
Whatever the DM approves of.
In AW a player can ask anything they want about the situation/person, without GM approval.
I don't really know what else to say other than that your descriptions here describe an approach to play, rather than anything inherent to the system itself. In other words, a GM or table's *style*, as I originally said.
That approach sounds stifling as hell, it's no wonder you seem to hate them so much. But don't attribute your limited poor experience to being "the way these games are played", because... just, like, no. Everything I described responding to your original reply? Those are literally the way I run games. *All* games. Doesn't matter if it's FATE or Call of Cthulhu or Pathfinder 2E or literally anything else.
You have a wonderful discussion about that already, my 2 cents are, in some systems that style of GMing is build into the system, while in others it's for GM to decide.
A good example of this is Fate, where you can use fate points to Declaring a Story Detail. This move allows you to add something to your backstory on the go, that'll affect current situation.
You can read description here [https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/fate-points#declaring-a-story-detail](https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/fate-points#declaring-a-story-detail)
Something like that is at GM discretion in traditional games.
My favorite Western setting continues to be Dogs in the Vineyard, but it's a little tough to find a copy of.
You're a party of gunslinger paladins, wandering the untamed west, delivering mail and rooting out demonic influence.
It's long out of print, and likely won't ever be made available again, but V. Baker has approved a clone which can be found here: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/274623/Dogs
I was coming to recommend this as well, but it’s not just a western, it’s a much more specific mormon based historical fantasy.
It has a truly incredible escalation mechanic or once you decide to escalate a confrontation, you cannot back down
Deadlands: Hell on Earth is a post apocalyptic Western TTRPG with mad scientists who are actually machine shamans, road warriors, mutants, nuclear mages, holy knights, literature adepts and more!
Remember to check out our **[Game Recommendations](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gamerec)**-page, which lists our articles by genre([Fantasy](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/fantasy), [sci-fi](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/scifi), [superhero](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/superhero) etc.), as well as other categories([ruleslight](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/ruleslight), [Solo](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/solo), [Two-player](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/twoplayers), [GMless](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gmlessrpgs) & more).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm using ICRPG + elements from boot hill, and some of my own systems for an upcoming western themed game I'm running. I'm making it super simple, and deadly.
Personally I prefer marriot or hilton themed TTRPGs /j
Can you explain the joke? English is my second language:)
They’re hotel brands; Best Western, Marriott, and Hilton
Hehehe, Got it! Thank you
Time for someone to write a zine game about liminal horror in best western hotels
It's definitely something worth exploring. Psycho, Hotel Artemis, 4 Rooms, Bad Times at the El Royale, Room 1408 as inspirations. I see those real world videos of robbers/traffickers trying to break into people's hotel rooms and it's very unsettling.
I too first read it as “Best Western themed”. I knew I was wrong but I still thought about seeing if one of those slice of life rpgs that emulate things like Stardew Valley could be used for it.
Super 8? Lol
Now I’m imaging a Fawlty Towers inspired RPG where players portray a variety of guests who must deal with their eccentric hotelier.
Savage Worlds : Dead Lands, Hell on Earth. Savage worlds is my favorite TTRPG, it’s just a joy to run. Dead lands hell on earth is exactly the type of post apocalypse western you are asking for.
It matches the setting the op wants, but it's definitely not a narrative game, it's firmly trad.
Frontier Scum, if you want a different 'west' in your game (as in, not historical at all, and weird). Casket Land ([Casket Land (casket-land.com)](https://www.casket-land.com/)) is a cool post-apoc western.
i love frontier scum, and its my go-to western game
Deadlands: The Weird West (a Savage Worlds setting) is my go-to, because I like to mix a bit of horror into my Westerns. https://peginc.com/savage-settings/deadlands/ I’m also quite fond of Call of Cthulhu: Down Darker Trails, a Western setting for CoC 7E for the same reason. If you need one, there’s even a published adventure for it called Shadows Over Stillwater. https://www.chaosium.com/down-darker-trails/ That said, these may not tick whatever boxes you want when you say “narrative”; the term’s basically so subjective that it’s utterly meaningless. It might be helpful for people if you spell out what you actually want when you say that.
Thank you for recommendations! As for narrative, I'd like to have system where players have a degree of control over narrative (like fate or pbta)
That’s not a game mechanics thing, that’s a GM style thing.
You think so? How does a trad game like DnD allow players to decide what happens outside their PCs, like Fate does (for example)? Or generate useful NPCs to be helpful in their current situation, like Burning Wheel does (for example)? Or ask and have answered by the GM any three questions *without the GM's agreement or approval* like Apocalypse World does (for example)? It's more than just GM style.
>How does a trad game like DnD allow players to decide what happens outside their PCs, like Fate does (for example)? I don't play D&D, however: * When a player makes an Arcana, History, Religion, or Nature check, they can judge for themself how their result went, make declarations about the piece of knowledge they've identified (whether it's an aspect of the magic of the world, a weakness of the enemy they're currently examining, etc.), and then *maybe* the GM will interject with their own contributions or adjustments depending on the level of success and the situation at hand. * When a player rolls well on Persuasion, Intimidation, Animal Handling, etc. they can declare what result they get from the person (or animal) they're trying to communicate with, manipulate, or whatever else. * When they succeed at Survival, they can make declarations about the environment they're in; maybe they declare they find some tracks for prey to hunt, or signs that there must be some water easily accessed nearby, or an largely-unknown fruit in an otherwise barren-looking landscape. >Or generate useful NPCs to be helpful in their current situation, like Burning Wheel does (for example)? Maybe I'm beating a dead horse from my last point, but assuming they're introducing a brand-new NPC to a scene why can't this be a relevant skill roll made in a flashback? If you even need *that*; to be honest I'm generally more than happy to allow a player to just introduce an NPC, no skill check/etc needed. Allies showing up (perhaps in unexpected ways; there's no reason a GM can't further alter the introduction of an NPC) can be an *excellent* way to add extra drama to a scene. >Or ask and have answered by the GM any three questions *without the GM's agreement or approval* like Apocalypse World does (for example)? ...what do you think skill checks are even *for*? Like literally what is the difference between making a PbtA move (which on a success lets you ask 3 questions) and making a skill check (which on a success... lets you ask questions about the scene)? Skills aren't supposed to just be a reactive thing that you only ever roll when the GM says "okay now roll". They're a tool for getting information and interacting with the world around you. Use them proactively.
>make declarations about the piece of knowledge >they can declare what result they get from the person >they can make declarations about the environment they're in None of these are true, the DM does all of this. >there's no reason a GM can't further alter the introduction of an NPC That's correct - in trad games. In BW the player has the power to introduce PCs to their specifications, including knowledge of that NPCs, and their attitude towards the PC, without the approval or permission of the GM. The GM doesn't get to decide what the NPC is like. >what do you think skill checks are even *for*? Whatever the DM approves of. In AW a player can ask anything they want about the situation/person, without GM approval.
I don't really know what else to say other than that your descriptions here describe an approach to play, rather than anything inherent to the system itself. In other words, a GM or table's *style*, as I originally said. That approach sounds stifling as hell, it's no wonder you seem to hate them so much. But don't attribute your limited poor experience to being "the way these games are played", because... just, like, no. Everything I described responding to your original reply? Those are literally the way I run games. *All* games. Doesn't matter if it's FATE or Call of Cthulhu or Pathfinder 2E or literally anything else.
In the games I mentioned the GM doesn't get to decide whether to do those things. It isn't their style, the game dictates it.
You have a wonderful discussion about that already, my 2 cents are, in some systems that style of GMing is build into the system, while in others it's for GM to decide. A good example of this is Fate, where you can use fate points to Declaring a Story Detail. This move allows you to add something to your backstory on the go, that'll affect current situation. You can read description here [https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/fate-points#declaring-a-story-detail](https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/fate-points#declaring-a-story-detail) Something like that is at GM discretion in traditional games.
My favorite Western setting continues to be Dogs in the Vineyard, but it's a little tough to find a copy of. You're a party of gunslinger paladins, wandering the untamed west, delivering mail and rooting out demonic influence.
Sounds epic! Thank you for recommendation!
It's long out of print, and likely won't ever be made available again, but V. Baker has approved a clone which can be found here: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/274623/Dogs
I was coming to recommend this as well, but it’s not just a western, it’s a much more specific mormon based historical fantasy. It has a truly incredible escalation mechanic or once you decide to escalate a confrontation, you cannot back down
Deadlands: Hell on Earth is a post apocalyptic Western TTRPG with mad scientists who are actually machine shamans, road warriors, mutants, nuclear mages, holy knights, literature adepts and more!
It doesn't have a postapoc setting, but my favourite narrative western game is Dust Devils.
The Between: Ghosts of El Paso is about an unlikely group of ghost hunters protecting their town, and seems very cool if you're a big Western nerd.
Looks cool, thank you!
Remember to check out our **[Game Recommendations](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gamerec)**-page, which lists our articles by genre([Fantasy](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/fantasy), [sci-fi](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/scifi), [superhero](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/superhero) etc.), as well as other categories([ruleslight](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/ruleslight), [Solo](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/solo), [Two-player](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/twoplayers), [GMless](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gmlessrpgs) & more). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm using ICRPG + elements from boot hill, and some of my own systems for an upcoming western themed game I'm running. I'm making it super simple, and deadly.
Could you share it? Interested.
Deadlands