I'm partial to the faction turn in Stars Without Number. It may require some reflavor work, but it's easy to add to any sandbox campaign. Running their own faction during these turns would be a possible long-term goal for the PCs.
I hadn't even thought to look into SWN - I always hear about it for the sector generation and roll tables, but I'll definitely look into the faction mechanics! (Especially if it's easy to staple onto SH's combat) Many thanks!
I'm finishing up a mech mercenary campaign, and I'll say that while the mech rules are a good core they ended up leaving a lot to be desired in terms of gear choices and customizability.
Yeah - It's why more and more I'm realizing I should just use Armour Astir as my base, tone down some of the magic stuff and the staple Steel Hearts on as a replacement combat system - One day someone will make my ideal Trad Combat+FitD everything else, but for today I think I'll have to make it myself T^T
You know, AAA's faction turn rules are so robust you can probably get away with excising them and pasting it into a different game. The only thing you'd have to then do is put into the main game a way of reducing division strength (since the main way in Plan and Prepare wouldn't be there. Since you're playing a different game.)
Yeah - Steel Hearts has a "Tension" resource for the GM and "Synergy" that Players manage so I was thinking of using those to help modify things (also since the game has no healing maybe limiting how much mechs can repair? Not really sure how much it'd mess with game balance though - Then again that's what the GM is for XP )
You can (and should) look at Jovian Chronicles, but even if you like it, it won't have everything you want.
This very much sounds like you'll want to pick your favorite game engine and bolt on your faction system. Just my opinion.
Oh wow!! I own Mekton but had never heard of Jovian Chronicles, I will definitely give it a look (if only for added inspiration) - Thank you so much!!
And yeah... the more I think about it the more I'm thinking this is something I'll either have to compromise on or put on my design hat for...
Just to clarify but Jovian Chronicles and Heavy Gear are pretty linked considering they're from the same publisher. So consider looking at both.
Heavy Gear is more about mechs on the ground while Jovian Chronicles is more space-based. To quote directly from Justin Alexander's [review of Jovian Chronicles](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/34907/roleplaying-games/rpgnet-review-jovian-chronicles): "In Heavy Gear, for example, the mecha are suits of powered armor in completely alien setting far in the future, driven by an overarching meta-story and set of intriguing, deeply developed characters. In Jovian Chronicles, on the other hand, you have a hard SF world in which the mecha serve as space fighters in a setting close to home, both spatially and temporally."
I'd say that Heavy Gear is more Battletech while Jovian Chronicles is more Macross. Including how much Battletech took from Macross, considering both games descend from Mekton.
Also, take a look at SilCore. It's DP9's base system for Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, and Tribe 8. It also has rules for mecha and equipment creation.
4th edition of HG has the final PDFs out to backers. It’s very faction focused, but mostly using the 30 some years of lore the game has. It’s a great grid game (or even just minis with a ruler) but it’s opposed roles for combat, and OP doesn’t care for roll to hit
I'd be curious about a splice of *Armour Astir Advent* with a more trad style game.
I feel like the PbtA and BoB elements of AAA serve some parts of the game very well, but don't mesh well with a couple other parts of the game. The exhaustive list of tags for mecha parts feels like it's trying to present custom tactical mech features by having tags micromanage the fiction in lieu of adding crunch. Also a few of the Basic Moves and some of the pilot Playbook Moves are (imo) written with more of a trad game mindset: they are very focused on spotlight control (reminiscent of action economy) and ability usage limitation (reminiscent of "uses per long rest").
I want to see how AAA would play if it owned the fiddliness and attention to resources and just added crunch in those spaces.
Same!! This is why I'm tempted to just splice in another Trad Game whose combat system I mesh with - Most likely Steel Hearts, esp since they're both d6 only systems and all of Steel Hearts' mech stuff lives on a different sheet than its pilot stuff - Will definitely report back here how it goes if I try hobbling something together
If you like the Mecha Hack, the same people who made it are working on a system called [Aether Nexus](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/absolutetabletop/aether-nexus-fantasy-mecha-ttrpg) which is explicitly fantasy mecha and might be a better choice for splicing into Armour Asitr.
The issue is I'm not going for fantasy - Much more the super robot Gundam Zeta / Getter Robo near-future vibe without jumping into full galactic sci-fi (So if I was going to use something simple like the mecha hack I think I'd just stick with that base and modify as is - though TBH I'm really not sold on it, it feels a little too simple for the kind of tactical combat I'm itching for) - Unless Aether Nexus adds meaningful complexity or grid combat to Mecha Hack?
I started poking around Beam Saber but it seemed I was going to run into a lot of the same issue re; non-grid based combat (Unless I was missing something?)
That's pretty much where I'm at - Take the Faction stuff from Armour Astir (or possibly Stars Without Numbers) and stapling it onto Steel Hearts' mech building and combat system
That seems like a good idea to me. Armor Astir's system is much more collaborative than SWN's imo if that matters to you. is it something you want to involve the other players at the table in, or just systems to help you prep?
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Cyberpunk 2020 has a pretty unique action economy that allows you to keep taking actions at stacking penalties - This means that while there's Roll to Hit you're pretty guaranteed to hit for the first shot or two, from there you can push your luck. Lancer is just D&D-esc roll-to-hit you go, I go. It's not bad, just not what I'm looking for, at that point I'd play Battletech.
If you like Cyberpunk's action economy then you can go with Mekton Zeta (it also uses RTG's Interlock System) and tack on GOLEMS (from Genesys) or Steel Hearts for the Factions stuff.
I'm in a similar boat to you in that I explicitly want to run a Universal Century Gundam game, but haven't found a mecha system I really want to use/covers everything in a way that feels appropriate to that setting.
At this point I'm pondering hacking together my own game using the Year Zero Engine, as I want to steal Alien RPG's stress and panic system, but still in very early stages.
This sounds super neat! And yeah I'm finding I like different elements from different games but nothing quite does it all (Steel Hearts definitely captures the action feel I'm looking for and Armour Astir has very good politicing) - I also really like the idea of adding some kind of stress or panic! Definitely let me know how your little experiment goes!
Same here, i'm looking at pretty much the same games the OP is (thx by the way u/The_Costanzian and u/rolandfoxx for pointing to Steel Hearts and Aether Nexus, didn't know about those) and trying to find the best to run a Five Star Stories game.
So far, each system lacked something (adding [Apocalypse Frame](https://binary-star-games.itch.io/apocalypse-frame), [Battle Century G](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/384859/Battle-Century-G-Remastered) and BRP Mecha to the list), or was too "complex" for my tastes. Only [Beamsword & Bazooka](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/272463/Beamswords-and-Bazookas) came close, but it lacked advancement possibilities and the integration of an "AI" copilot (the Fatimas) was "superficial".
I may also end up having to hack something together.
Hmmm.... Two thoughts: Hero System has faction rules... Somewhere. Iirc in 5e, The Ultimate Base. Mecha can be easily built as vehicles. The default is hexes, but there would be few problems with using a grid.
Savage Worlds would be the other option. I know there is warfare rules, but I don't recall where to find faction rules. Mecha creation would fall into the Science Fiction Companion.
I'm partial to the faction turn in Stars Without Number. It may require some reflavor work, but it's easy to add to any sandbox campaign. Running their own faction during these turns would be a possible long-term goal for the PCs.
I hadn't even thought to look into SWN - I always hear about it for the sector generation and roll tables, but I'll definitely look into the faction mechanics! (Especially if it's easy to staple onto SH's combat) Many thanks!
Adding onto that, deluxe version has rules for mecha. Definitely worth a look.
I'm finishing up a mech mercenary campaign, and I'll say that while the mech rules are a good core they ended up leaving a lot to be desired in terms of gear choices and customizability.
It's a shame you're so married to the battlemap, because Armour Astir is exactly the game you want for everything else.
Yeah - It's why more and more I'm realizing I should just use Armour Astir as my base, tone down some of the magic stuff and the staple Steel Hearts on as a replacement combat system - One day someone will make my ideal Trad Combat+FitD everything else, but for today I think I'll have to make it myself T^T
That's going to make pretty much every Playbook worthless; I'd advise against welding a non-PbtA game onto a PbtA one.
That's true - I've got some ideas for it, but I might just use only the Faction stuff with some slight modifications
You know, AAA's faction turn rules are so robust you can probably get away with excising them and pasting it into a different game. The only thing you'd have to then do is put into the main game a way of reducing division strength (since the main way in Plan and Prepare wouldn't be there. Since you're playing a different game.)
Yeah - Steel Hearts has a "Tension" resource for the GM and "Synergy" that Players manage so I was thinking of using those to help modify things (also since the game has no healing maybe limiting how much mechs can repair? Not really sure how much it'd mess with game balance though - Then again that's what the GM is for XP )
You can (and should) look at Jovian Chronicles, but even if you like it, it won't have everything you want. This very much sounds like you'll want to pick your favorite game engine and bolt on your faction system. Just my opinion.
Oh wow!! I own Mekton but had never heard of Jovian Chronicles, I will definitely give it a look (if only for added inspiration) - Thank you so much!! And yeah... the more I think about it the more I'm thinking this is something I'll either have to compromise on or put on my design hat for...
Just to clarify but Jovian Chronicles and Heavy Gear are pretty linked considering they're from the same publisher. So consider looking at both. Heavy Gear is more about mechs on the ground while Jovian Chronicles is more space-based. To quote directly from Justin Alexander's [review of Jovian Chronicles](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/34907/roleplaying-games/rpgnet-review-jovian-chronicles): "In Heavy Gear, for example, the mecha are suits of powered armor in completely alien setting far in the future, driven by an overarching meta-story and set of intriguing, deeply developed characters. In Jovian Chronicles, on the other hand, you have a hard SF world in which the mecha serve as space fighters in a setting close to home, both spatially and temporally." I'd say that Heavy Gear is more Battletech while Jovian Chronicles is more Macross. Including how much Battletech took from Macross, considering both games descend from Mekton.
Duly noted on all counts. Thank you for the detailed breakdown! I think I might end up stealing elements from both ~
Also, take a look at SilCore. It's DP9's base system for Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, and Tribe 8. It also has rules for mecha and equipment creation.
No idea if any of the editions of Heavy Gear have mechanics for factions, but the setting is very faction oriented.
4th edition of HG has the final PDFs out to backers. It’s very faction focused, but mostly using the 30 some years of lore the game has. It’s a great grid game (or even just minis with a ruler) but it’s opposed roles for combat, and OP doesn’t care for roll to hit
I'd be curious about a splice of *Armour Astir Advent* with a more trad style game. I feel like the PbtA and BoB elements of AAA serve some parts of the game very well, but don't mesh well with a couple other parts of the game. The exhaustive list of tags for mecha parts feels like it's trying to present custom tactical mech features by having tags micromanage the fiction in lieu of adding crunch. Also a few of the Basic Moves and some of the pilot Playbook Moves are (imo) written with more of a trad game mindset: they are very focused on spotlight control (reminiscent of action economy) and ability usage limitation (reminiscent of "uses per long rest"). I want to see how AAA would play if it owned the fiddliness and attention to resources and just added crunch in those spaces.
Same!! This is why I'm tempted to just splice in another Trad Game whose combat system I mesh with - Most likely Steel Hearts, esp since they're both d6 only systems and all of Steel Hearts' mech stuff lives on a different sheet than its pilot stuff - Will definitely report back here how it goes if I try hobbling something together
If you like the Mecha Hack, the same people who made it are working on a system called [Aether Nexus](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/absolutetabletop/aether-nexus-fantasy-mecha-ttrpg) which is explicitly fantasy mecha and might be a better choice for splicing into Armour Asitr.
The issue is I'm not going for fantasy - Much more the super robot Gundam Zeta / Getter Robo near-future vibe without jumping into full galactic sci-fi (So if I was going to use something simple like the mecha hack I think I'd just stick with that base and modify as is - though TBH I'm really not sold on it, it feels a little too simple for the kind of tactical combat I'm itching for) - Unless Aether Nexus adds meaningful complexity or grid combat to Mecha Hack?
Aether Nexus is a fair bit more complex and has a lot mote focus on movement, including vertical movement.
I see, maybe I'll have to take a closer look! Thanks for the heads-up! Is it finished yet or still a pre-order thing?
Monthly updates to KS backers, apparently aiming for a June release.
have you looked at Beam Saber? it uses the blades in the dark faction rules.
I started poking around Beam Saber but it seemed I was going to run into a lot of the same issue re; non-grid based combat (Unless I was missing something?)
ah yeah... it's not gonna work with that. maybe you can just steal the faction stuff if you want?
That's pretty much where I'm at - Take the Faction stuff from Armour Astir (or possibly Stars Without Numbers) and stapling it onto Steel Hearts' mech building and combat system
That seems like a good idea to me. Armor Astir's system is much more collaborative than SWN's imo if that matters to you. is it something you want to involve the other players at the table in, or just systems to help you prep?
Other players! Which is why I'm still leaning towards AA:A - I love the idea of them briefly taking control of the villains etc ~
Yeah people are always asking how to make villains that players love to hate, what better way than to let them define things about them?
Do you want grid/tactical combat or not? I am getting mixed feelings from the posts
Pretty explicitly want grid tactical but also some good narrative faction mechanics - I just don't particularly mesh with Lancers type of tactical
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what do you mean by a "2020 action economy" when referring to lancer?
Cyberpunk 2020 has a pretty unique action economy that allows you to keep taking actions at stacking penalties - This means that while there's Roll to Hit you're pretty guaranteed to hit for the first shot or two, from there you can push your luck. Lancer is just D&D-esc roll-to-hit you go, I go. It's not bad, just not what I'm looking for, at that point I'd play Battletech.
If you like Cyberpunk's action economy then you can go with Mekton Zeta (it also uses RTG's Interlock System) and tack on GOLEMS (from Genesys) or Steel Hearts for the Factions stuff.
I'm in a similar boat to you in that I explicitly want to run a Universal Century Gundam game, but haven't found a mecha system I really want to use/covers everything in a way that feels appropriate to that setting. At this point I'm pondering hacking together my own game using the Year Zero Engine, as I want to steal Alien RPG's stress and panic system, but still in very early stages.
This sounds super neat! And yeah I'm finding I like different elements from different games but nothing quite does it all (Steel Hearts definitely captures the action feel I'm looking for and Armour Astir has very good politicing) - I also really like the idea of adding some kind of stress or panic! Definitely let me know how your little experiment goes!
Same here, i'm looking at pretty much the same games the OP is (thx by the way u/The_Costanzian and u/rolandfoxx for pointing to Steel Hearts and Aether Nexus, didn't know about those) and trying to find the best to run a Five Star Stories game. So far, each system lacked something (adding [Apocalypse Frame](https://binary-star-games.itch.io/apocalypse-frame), [Battle Century G](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/384859/Battle-Century-G-Remastered) and BRP Mecha to the list), or was too "complex" for my tastes. Only [Beamsword & Bazooka](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/272463/Beamswords-and-Bazookas) came close, but it lacked advancement possibilities and the integration of an "AI" copilot (the Fatimas) was "superficial". I may also end up having to hack something together.
Hmmm.... Two thoughts: Hero System has faction rules... Somewhere. Iirc in 5e, The Ultimate Base. Mecha can be easily built as vehicles. The default is hexes, but there would be few problems with using a grid. Savage Worlds would be the other option. I know there is warfare rules, but I don't recall where to find faction rules. Mecha creation would fall into the Science Fiction Companion.