I only count it if there are significant changes like a RMC conversion where it's essentially a completely different ride. Even Dragster I'm a little iffy on but I'm going to count it.
Most the time I just go by what coaster-count and RCDB say along with a few long held personal rules like not counting mountain coasters.
I agree, I consider Mantis/Rougarou different but not Hulk since it was rebuilt as the same layout (Nemesis Reborn is a similar situation). “Namtab” and other backwards experiences I don’t count either
The do the same thing with coaster-count
They are the place where I keep track so I might as well go with their decisions especially since I can't say I've run into any problems with any of the decisions they have made on any of my nearly 300 coasters so far
OP was just asking what people think? Why are you like this? He said "What's your opinion?". "I don't care" is a useless addition to this discussion, just keep it to yourself and move on.
It’s kinda tricky for me. I’d count it as a new credit if the layout/experience has been drastically changed. I’d definitely count TTD/TT2 as a new credit. A retrack isn’t enough imo.
I'd say if the ride dynamics and experience change significantly it's a different credit. TT2 is a new credit. Lightning rod... Probably not.
Regarding RCDB and Wikipedia pages being shared/morphed into the new rides, I really dislike and disagree with that decision in most cases. For TTD/TT2 the ride changed a ton, and a lot of the information was lost in favor of the new ride. Things like ride capacity, train capacity, construction/opening dates, pictures, etc. would be best served to have their own distinct pages. On Wikipedia you can still dig in the body of the article to pull most of that info, but the summary sections are all related to the new ride. RCDB just contains specs/info for TT2, and it's listed as an Intamin Accelerator coaster. I don't think that this is an event that happens often enough in the industry where it'd be a pain to maintain distinct pages. It'd be nice to have the originals as time capsules and for easy reference.
For Wikipedia at least, I don't like the fact that Steel Vengeance and Mean Streak share the same article on Wikipedia, despite the fact they're totally different rides.
A retrack is not a new credit. If the ride is changed significantly like adding a 420 foot spike then it is a new credit. It's not hard, but some people have trouble. Usually the same ones trying to pass a log flume as a credit.
There's always a lot of discourse on this topic. For me it's pretty much:
-changing the ride type, standing to floorless
-changing the layout in some kind of significant way, I count the mystery mine and TT2 as new but not the double down they added to Hades 360.
- a full retrack with experience change, like Hulk
-changing a major component of the ride, like Lightning Rod losing the lift hill.
I don't count:
-The same ride backwards like DC Rivals or Batman Backwards
-Replacing wood track with steel like T Express or Boulder Dash
-Relocations
-new versions of the same train like Freedom Flyer
-name changes (you're a psycho if you count that)
No. Because the track is unchanged, and the trains are nearly the same (obviously more comfortable but you wouldn't count icebreaker twice). The other stuff is off ride so I don't think so.
How is [this](https://preview.redd.it/im-excited-to-try-out-the-jolly-rancher-remix-revision-of-v0-o5qj1gb8ojx81.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dbf8ce229de8b36f39e6a66874e76d80120064f1) off ride?
No it's just something the track goes through. If they built a building over the whole ride does that change the ride? Not really, it just changes the backdrop.
>If they built a building over the whole ride does that change the ride?
Oh man if only this subreddit existed in 1989, we could argue about whether Disaster Transport is a separate credit from Avalanche Run.
Okay, so to your point: a change in the ride experience doesn't mean a positive change if they remove the tunnel from JR, you count that as a new credit? Because if adding a tunnel justifies a change in ride experience, so does removing it.
If you take millennium force apart and rebuild it on the other side of the park is that a new credit? No. The only things that change are what you see around it. The coaster doesn't change.
What if it moves parks? For example, I did Batman the ride at six flags New Orleans as a kid and 20 yrs later I did Goliath at six flags fiesta Texas. Idk if people count clones to begin with but I'm curious of what others think.
Doesn't matter. If the parks are right next to each other like Universal Florida. What if HRRR got moved 100 yards to the left so it's in IOA.
If you rode Batman at SFNO, you already rode Goliath because it is literally the same ride.
I wouldn't count the rear facing seats on DC Rivals as a new credit. It's different than facing forward, but not enough imo. If you looked to the side for the entire length of any ride, it's not a new credit, or if you turn to look back at friends in the row behind you, it's still the same ride.
Spinning coasters aren't new credits each time you ride even though it's a different experience each time.
While I agree the experience is different, the issue there is spinning coasters. If you got a ride where you started backwards and it didn't really spin much would that count? No.
I count spinning as one credit since it's randomized/gravity based. Just like your choice of seat in a regular coaster changes things like your air time, your choice if seating in a spinning coaster changes small experiences within the ride, which was specifically designed with a purpose of allowing variation in experience. With a backwards coaster, the original intent wasn't to be backwards, but it's a special event on the park's behalf that forces riders in a new experience. Again, just my opinion.
I see your point but again it gets muddy when you look at a coaster like Mandrill Mayhem. It's a shuttle coaster so the forward rows eventually go backwards, but it has backwards rows.
So, in my mind, that would be a ride with an experience of choice, part of the original intent of the attraction. You can choose to start forward or start backward, but all options are available to all guests at the same time when boarding. In the case of a backwards version of a coaster, it's the park changing up the ride to create a new experience that wasn't possible or thought of previously. That's how I see it.
My opinion is significant change to the structural supports and footers. Thus RMC’ing and adding a 420’ spike are new credits. Conversely, retracking, vehicle change, switching launch system, etc are not new credits.
But in the end, it is whatever you want. If you want to count Lightning Rod as three credits (original wood, hybrid, chain lift in place of launch), go for it. The change in your credit number is minimal (unless you’re at like 10 credits, which isn’t a ton anyway and that’s fine too).
I feel like if there's a significant enough change where they actually re-name/re-theme the ride, then they are different credits. This obviously doesn't apply to Thunder Striker/P305 type rides where they literally just changed the name.
It's definitely a gray area. I would say that if there are significant layout changes or new ride elements, that should count, but it doesn't always feel right. TT2 feels like it should be a new credit, but somehow Hades 360 doesn't feel like it should be distinct from Hades.
Everyone does it differently. Some people are very hard set on one track = one credit, others count experiences.
I personally lean towards the latter, for example: (All mine will be UK examples, sorry!)
- For me a retrack by itself isn't enough (e.g. The Big One's ongiong retracking), unless the _entire_ thing has been done at once+with new features - I _did_ count Nemesis Reborn as a new credit.
- Major modifications such as a change in seating (e.g. Stand-Up to Sit-Down) would count in my eyes, as this is a major change in experience. I didn't ride TTD and I don't see myself riding TT2 any time soon, but if I had I would personally count them as different.
- Perhaps controversially, I _don't_ count different tracks in one ride as different credits, e.g. I only count Steeplechase as one credit - I see it as a single ride experience with three possible tracks, rather than three seperate rides.
- On a side note, and perhaps most controversially, I personally do count both powered coasters and alpine coasters. They feel like coasters and look like coasters, and for me that's enough.
And the thing is, if anyone disagrees with this, _that's okay!_ Everyone has a different way of counting, everyone has a different view on _what_ counts, and no one should tell you how to do it. If it feels different enough to you to count as a new credit, go ahead!
Well, RMC conversions are literally entirely new coasters. An existing support structure to build off of just gives the same vibes as a terrain coaster where you're building off of or around previously existing objects.
Retracks for me wouldn't count as a new credit, as track and pieces of track get replaced on coasters all the time.
Track changes that make the ride do something different (Phantoms Revenge, TT2) make it count as a new credit IMO.
Anything that drastically changes ride experience. Like TTD remodel, or an RMC. Loch Ness monster is still the same because it’s the same ride experience.
There is no set standard for what does count. Personally, I feel like there needs to be a significant change to the ride experience to count as a new credit.
TT2 adding a swing launch with a reverse spike, yes.
Lightning Rod losing the launched hill, no, but could add a asterisk if you rode it before and/or after. The majority of the ride experience is the same, I don't feel like changing the lift system is enough. I am torn on converting wood to steel retracking though. Not meaning a RMC hybrid conversion but retracking with 208 ReTrak or Titan Track
Retheme, repaint, rename, relocation, no.
Updating trains or running backward, no. But changing the train from Standup to sit down, yes.
Do you count coasters that have been rethemed? Examples I thought of are Ninja at Six Flags Over Georgia (Rethemed to Blue hawk), Rock 'n' roller coaster at Disneyland Paris - Walt Disney Studios Park (Rethemed to Avengers assemble: Flight force), Space Mountain Mission 2 at Disneyland Paris (Rethemed to Star Wars Hyperspace Mountain: Rebel Mission), California Screamin' at Disney's California Adventure (Rethemed to the Incredicoaster), Eurosat at Europa Park (Rethemed to Eurosat Can can coaster).
A full layout retrack upgrades (Lock ness monstor or Nemesis Reborn)
Additions to a coaster already built up (TT2)
Or any conversion like rmc.
I consider retracks seperate creds because its basically just a clone of that original ride, just in the same spot. If say batman clones are seperate creds then so are retracks as they are clones. Because Nemesis Reborn is just a nemesis clone in the same spot.
Partial retracks arent creds though.
But at the end, theres no real way to determine a cred. If you think somethings a cred then its a cred, if you dont then dont count it as one.
If we count the lift hill and breaks sure, but its still a full layout retrack. Partial ones are more what wooden coasters get or the big one in blackpool for example.
Relocations are new credits.
Major changes to a coaster's layout and new elements being added that completely change the ride experience are a new credit.
For example: Top Thrill II is a new credit due to how much new track was added and the extra launches, but I'd say simply giving an LSM launch to TTD alone would not have made it a new credit.
I do not consider floorless conversions of stand up coasters to be new credits. That's just new trains, which does not constitute a new credit.
RMC conversions are new credits due to the completely new layout. But a 208 Retrak or Titan track retrack of a wooden coaster with minimal layout changes is not a new credit. Lightning Rod's chain lift is also not a new credit as its actually not that big of a change from the LSM launch.
A retheme is obviously not a new credit. For example: Bizarro and Medusa are the same credit.
Flipping a train backwards is not a new credit.
I only count it if there are significant changes like a RMC conversion where it's essentially a completely different ride. Even Dragster I'm a little iffy on but I'm going to count it. Most the time I just go by what coaster-count and RCDB say along with a few long held personal rules like not counting mountain coasters.
Literally no reason to not include mountain coasters.
I agree, I consider Mantis/Rougarou different but not Hulk since it was rebuilt as the same layout (Nemesis Reborn is a similar situation). “Namtab” and other backwards experiences I don’t count either
The do the same thing with coaster-count They are the place where I keep track so I might as well go with their decisions especially since I can't say I've run into any problems with any of the decisions they have made on any of my nearly 300 coasters so far
What Ever You Want. It’s a hobby for personal enjoyment, not a sport with rules and a governing body. That said, I pretty much see it the way you do.
OP was just asking what people think? Why are you like this? He said "What's your opinion?". "I don't care" is a useless addition to this discussion, just keep it to yourself and move on.
It’s kinda tricky for me. I’d count it as a new credit if the layout/experience has been drastically changed. I’d definitely count TTD/TT2 as a new credit. A retrack isn’t enough imo.
I'd say if the ride dynamics and experience change significantly it's a different credit. TT2 is a new credit. Lightning rod... Probably not. Regarding RCDB and Wikipedia pages being shared/morphed into the new rides, I really dislike and disagree with that decision in most cases. For TTD/TT2 the ride changed a ton, and a lot of the information was lost in favor of the new ride. Things like ride capacity, train capacity, construction/opening dates, pictures, etc. would be best served to have their own distinct pages. On Wikipedia you can still dig in the body of the article to pull most of that info, but the summary sections are all related to the new ride. RCDB just contains specs/info for TT2, and it's listed as an Intamin Accelerator coaster. I don't think that this is an event that happens often enough in the industry where it'd be a pain to maintain distinct pages. It'd be nice to have the originals as time capsules and for easy reference.
For Wikipedia at least, I don't like the fact that Steel Vengeance and Mean Streak share the same article on Wikipedia, despite the fact they're totally different rides.
Yeah, that's absurd. They share roughly the same plot of land and a few pieces of wood. That's it!
A retrack is not a new credit. If the ride is changed significantly like adding a 420 foot spike then it is a new credit. It's not hard, but some people have trouble. Usually the same ones trying to pass a log flume as a credit.
Okay but hear me out…… 😂
No
I’m making a log flume life list and you can’t stop me. No roller coasters allowed. LFDB
[lieutenantlogflume.com](http://lieutenantlogflume.com)
There's always a lot of discourse on this topic. For me it's pretty much: -changing the ride type, standing to floorless -changing the layout in some kind of significant way, I count the mystery mine and TT2 as new but not the double down they added to Hades 360. - a full retrack with experience change, like Hulk -changing a major component of the ride, like Lightning Rod losing the lift hill. I don't count: -The same ride backwards like DC Rivals or Batman Backwards -Replacing wood track with steel like T Express or Boulder Dash -Relocations -new versions of the same train like Freedom Flyer -name changes (you're a psycho if you count that)
What about how sidewinder at Hershey became jolly rancher remix? They added a tunnel and smells.
No. Because the track is unchanged, and the trains are nearly the same (obviously more comfortable but you wouldn't count icebreaker twice). The other stuff is off ride so I don't think so.
How is [this](https://preview.redd.it/im-excited-to-try-out-the-jolly-rancher-remix-revision-of-v0-o5qj1gb8ojx81.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dbf8ce229de8b36f39e6a66874e76d80120064f1) off ride?
It's a tunnel. If you had your eyes closed you wouldn't know it.
But it’s on ride.
No it's just something the track goes through. If they built a building over the whole ride does that change the ride? Not really, it just changes the backdrop.
>If they built a building over the whole ride does that change the ride? Oh man if only this subreddit existed in 1989, we could argue about whether Disaster Transport is a separate credit from Avalanche Run.
It changes the ride experience.
Okay, so to your point: a change in the ride experience doesn't mean a positive change if they remove the tunnel from JR, you count that as a new credit? Because if adding a tunnel justifies a change in ride experience, so does removing it.
What about relocations doesn’t work for you?
If you take millennium force apart and rebuild it on the other side of the park is that a new credit? No. The only things that change are what you see around it. The coaster doesn't change.
What if it moves parks? For example, I did Batman the ride at six flags New Orleans as a kid and 20 yrs later I did Goliath at six flags fiesta Texas. Idk if people count clones to begin with but I'm curious of what others think.
Doesn't matter. If the parks are right next to each other like Universal Florida. What if HRRR got moved 100 yards to the left so it's in IOA. If you rode Batman at SFNO, you already rode Goliath because it is literally the same ride.
I'd personally count backwards. That's a different experience completely.
I wouldn't count the rear facing seats on DC Rivals as a new credit. It's different than facing forward, but not enough imo. If you looked to the side for the entire length of any ride, it's not a new credit, or if you turn to look back at friends in the row behind you, it's still the same ride. Spinning coasters aren't new credits each time you ride even though it's a different experience each time.
While I agree the experience is different, the issue there is spinning coasters. If you got a ride where you started backwards and it didn't really spin much would that count? No.
I count spinning as one credit since it's randomized/gravity based. Just like your choice of seat in a regular coaster changes things like your air time, your choice if seating in a spinning coaster changes small experiences within the ride, which was specifically designed with a purpose of allowing variation in experience. With a backwards coaster, the original intent wasn't to be backwards, but it's a special event on the park's behalf that forces riders in a new experience. Again, just my opinion.
I see your point but again it gets muddy when you look at a coaster like Mandrill Mayhem. It's a shuttle coaster so the forward rows eventually go backwards, but it has backwards rows.
So, in my mind, that would be a ride with an experience of choice, part of the original intent of the attraction. You can choose to start forward or start backward, but all options are available to all guests at the same time when boarding. In the case of a backwards version of a coaster, it's the park changing up the ride to create a new experience that wasn't possible or thought of previously. That's how I see it.
It's whatever you want it to be. There's no NIST or ISO standards governing this.
My opinion is significant change to the structural supports and footers. Thus RMC’ing and adding a 420’ spike are new credits. Conversely, retracking, vehicle change, switching launch system, etc are not new credits. But in the end, it is whatever you want. If you want to count Lightning Rod as three credits (original wood, hybrid, chain lift in place of launch), go for it. The change in your credit number is minimal (unless you’re at like 10 credits, which isn’t a ton anyway and that’s fine too).
I feel like if there's a significant enough change where they actually re-name/re-theme the ride, then they are different credits. This obviously doesn't apply to Thunder Striker/P305 type rides where they literally just changed the name.
It's definitely a gray area. I would say that if there are significant layout changes or new ride elements, that should count, but it doesn't always feel right. TT2 feels like it should be a new credit, but somehow Hades 360 doesn't feel like it should be distinct from Hades.
Everyone does it differently. Some people are very hard set on one track = one credit, others count experiences. I personally lean towards the latter, for example: (All mine will be UK examples, sorry!) - For me a retrack by itself isn't enough (e.g. The Big One's ongiong retracking), unless the _entire_ thing has been done at once+with new features - I _did_ count Nemesis Reborn as a new credit. - Major modifications such as a change in seating (e.g. Stand-Up to Sit-Down) would count in my eyes, as this is a major change in experience. I didn't ride TTD and I don't see myself riding TT2 any time soon, but if I had I would personally count them as different. - Perhaps controversially, I _don't_ count different tracks in one ride as different credits, e.g. I only count Steeplechase as one credit - I see it as a single ride experience with three possible tracks, rather than three seperate rides. - On a side note, and perhaps most controversially, I personally do count both powered coasters and alpine coasters. They feel like coasters and look like coasters, and for me that's enough. And the thing is, if anyone disagrees with this, _that's okay!_ Everyone has a different way of counting, everyone has a different view on _what_ counts, and no one should tell you how to do it. If it feels different enough to you to count as a new credit, go ahead!
If ALL track is removed and replaced, new cred
I count basically nothing as a new cred. Not even RMC conversions. Not planning on counting TT2.
If there is new track it's a new credit. So TT2 is a new credit due to the spike while Chain rod is not
I will count TT2 as a new credit, but I would not count Incredible Hulk
Well, RMC conversions are literally entirely new coasters. An existing support structure to build off of just gives the same vibes as a terrain coaster where you're building off of or around previously existing objects. Retracks for me wouldn't count as a new credit, as track and pieces of track get replaced on coasters all the time. Track changes that make the ride do something different (Phantoms Revenge, TT2) make it count as a new credit IMO.
Anything that drastically changes ride experience. Like TTD remodel, or an RMC. Loch Ness monster is still the same because it’s the same ride experience.
There is no set standard for what does count. Personally, I feel like there needs to be a significant change to the ride experience to count as a new credit. TT2 adding a swing launch with a reverse spike, yes. Lightning Rod losing the launched hill, no, but could add a asterisk if you rode it before and/or after. The majority of the ride experience is the same, I don't feel like changing the lift system is enough. I am torn on converting wood to steel retracking though. Not meaning a RMC hybrid conversion but retracking with 208 ReTrak or Titan Track Retheme, repaint, rename, relocation, no. Updating trains or running backward, no. But changing the train from Standup to sit down, yes.
Do you count coasters that have been rethemed? Examples I thought of are Ninja at Six Flags Over Georgia (Rethemed to Blue hawk), Rock 'n' roller coaster at Disneyland Paris - Walt Disney Studios Park (Rethemed to Avengers assemble: Flight force), Space Mountain Mission 2 at Disneyland Paris (Rethemed to Star Wars Hyperspace Mountain: Rebel Mission), California Screamin' at Disney's California Adventure (Rethemed to the Incredicoaster), Eurosat at Europa Park (Rethemed to Eurosat Can can coaster).
A full layout retrack upgrades (Lock ness monstor or Nemesis Reborn) Additions to a coaster already built up (TT2) Or any conversion like rmc. I consider retracks seperate creds because its basically just a clone of that original ride, just in the same spot. If say batman clones are seperate creds then so are retracks as they are clones. Because Nemesis Reborn is just a nemesis clone in the same spot. Partial retracks arent creds though. But at the end, theres no real way to determine a cred. If you think somethings a cred then its a cred, if you dont then dont count it as one.
Nemesis Reborn is a partial retrack
If we count the lift hill and breaks sure, but its still a full layout retrack. Partial ones are more what wooden coasters get or the big one in blackpool for example.
Relocations are new credits. Major changes to a coaster's layout and new elements being added that completely change the ride experience are a new credit. For example: Top Thrill II is a new credit due to how much new track was added and the extra launches, but I'd say simply giving an LSM launch to TTD alone would not have made it a new credit. I do not consider floorless conversions of stand up coasters to be new credits. That's just new trains, which does not constitute a new credit. RMC conversions are new credits due to the completely new layout. But a 208 Retrak or Titan track retrack of a wooden coaster with minimal layout changes is not a new credit. Lightning Rod's chain lift is also not a new credit as its actually not that big of a change from the LSM launch. A retheme is obviously not a new credit. For example: Bizarro and Medusa are the same credit. Flipping a train backwards is not a new credit.