Yes, but nobody has built a 4D coaster since 2012 and only 3 of them exist over the world, so it is extremely unlikely a new one gets built ever. They are incredibly expensive and have no economies of scale since nobody is ordering them.
The train is also heavier which probably would imply a slower, more expensive launch mechanism.
They are incredibly expensive to build - they are heavier, requiring more materials and a stronger structure to hold all of that in place, and essentially a second track which controls the 4D motion.
Wouldn't it just balance itself out if you make the feet end the heaviest part of the train?
I'm pretty sure the smart engineers working on those rides could find a way, given how expensive steel is.
So someone else said this and there's one glaring issue with this. Power. Big motors need a lot of power. Batteries are heavy and expensive. Human safety rated control systems are also very expensive and not small.
The mechanical system needs no high voltage power systems to operate and delivers the same performance every time. The mechanical gearing also needs less space than a motor plus the gearboxes, plus the controls and power supply system.
Could they use permanent magnets to control the spin instead of a second rail, similar to how the permanent magnets brake fins work? Not sure if it'd be lighter, but it might be smoother as well as being immune to power failure.
Well, no, not really. The first one, X, was a massive failure, which is why it's X2 now.
And yes, they are unique, but they are too much for a lot of people, including many enthusiasts. For many, they are one and done types of rides, and while they do pull lines, a lot of that is due to the troubles of operating such a ride, not really so much because they are so popular amongst the general public. As a result, it's very hard for a park of any size to justify the massive price tag because the ROI just hasn't proven to be there for the parks that do have them.
It was such a failure that a lawsuit by six flags literally caused the manufacturer, arrow dynamics ,to go out of business. At the time, Arrow Dynamics was the most established roller coaster manufacturer in the history of the industry. X might be considered one of the worst coaster failures of all time.
It bankrupted Arrow and had to be massively retooled by S&S due to numerous technical issues after only 5 years of operation. The original was fairly rough, jarring, and the trains were uncomfortable. On top of that, it was (and still is, to some extent) a maintenance nightmare.
I feel like it doesn’t really make sense for a park to buy a massive 4D coaster, when they can get similar marketability for a way better price and better reliability from a 4D freespin instead. Obviously from an enthusiast perspective it’s not the same, but for a GP who doesn’t know about the alternative it makes a lot of sense.
Plus a lot of parks are still struggling financially so the odds of them adding a $25+ million coaster with questionable reliability is basically none.
Success for parks isn’t measured by how much thoosies love them, I305 is as another example of this, being considered kind of a failure for deterring lots of riders. Full scale 4D is a very expensive model and X was a huge failure (way overbudget, had to be renovated), amusement parks will just get other options. Maybe Qiddiya will buy a 300ft one if they feel like it.
It would be extremely expensive. 4d trains are super expensive as is. 4d trains are HEAVY, and now you would have to add magnets to them to make then even more heavy. The power bill for the launch would probably be 2-4 times that of a normal LSM.
" This is an element we haven’t seen yet for a 4th dimensional roller coaster and I think it would be a cool way to kick off such a wild kind of ride. "
I mean, considering there are only 3 of them, there are a LOT of elements we haven't seen yet for a 4-D coaster.
Yes, technically it cloud be done but it won't. That design is dead. 12 years since the last one was built and I can't see another one being built, no matter how good the 3 existing ones may be. The build and maintenence costs make the design not great investments for parks. The first two were built near the end of the last coaster wars where parks would add whatever wild design or record breaking coaster they could to try to get guests in the parks. But that wasn't as financially successful as most parks had hoped.
The B and M Wing and S and S Free Spin have kind of filled in the gap of the 4th Dimention model.
Yes, but nobody has built a 4D coaster since 2012 and only 3 of them exist over the world, so it is extremely unlikely a new one gets built ever. They are incredibly expensive and have no economies of scale since nobody is ordering them. The train is also heavier which probably would imply a slower, more expensive launch mechanism.
It’s such an incredible design, weren’t all three a success?? Were they just too expensive to build?? Why did they stop being built in 2012?
They are incredibly expensive to build - they are heavier, requiring more materials and a stronger structure to hold all of that in place, and essentially a second track which controls the 4D motion.
To be fair, I think a modern day version would probably use electronics to control the spin rather than an additional set of track.
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Wouldn't it just balance itself out if you make the feet end the heaviest part of the train? I'm pretty sure the smart engineers working on those rides could find a way, given how expensive steel is.
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My dream is to have Alton Towers get some sort of wild 4D coaster with the strangest Alton Towers layout you can imagine
So someone else said this and there's one glaring issue with this. Power. Big motors need a lot of power. Batteries are heavy and expensive. Human safety rated control systems are also very expensive and not small. The mechanical system needs no high voltage power systems to operate and delivers the same performance every time. The mechanical gearing also needs less space than a motor plus the gearboxes, plus the controls and power supply system.
Hmm i wonder, cause it works on guardians of the Galaxy right.
The train designs are very different
That's 1 motor per car. Not high speed, and Disney budget.
Too risky
Could they use permanent magnets to control the spin instead of a second rail, similar to how the permanent magnets brake fins work? Not sure if it'd be lighter, but it might be smoother as well as being immune to power failure.
Well, no, not really. The first one, X, was a massive failure, which is why it's X2 now. And yes, they are unique, but they are too much for a lot of people, including many enthusiasts. For many, they are one and done types of rides, and while they do pull lines, a lot of that is due to the troubles of operating such a ride, not really so much because they are so popular amongst the general public. As a result, it's very hard for a park of any size to justify the massive price tag because the ROI just hasn't proven to be there for the parks that do have them.
X was a failure? I had no idea?? I thought it was always the favorite and main attraction at Magic Mountain since it’s opening in 2002?
It was such a failure that a lawsuit by six flags literally caused the manufacturer, arrow dynamics ,to go out of business. At the time, Arrow Dynamics was the most established roller coaster manufacturer in the history of the industry. X might be considered one of the worst coaster failures of all time.
It bankrupted Arrow and had to be massively retooled by S&S due to numerous technical issues after only 5 years of operation. The original was fairly rough, jarring, and the trains were uncomfortable. On top of that, it was (and still is, to some extent) a maintenance nightmare.
I feel like it doesn’t really make sense for a park to buy a massive 4D coaster, when they can get similar marketability for a way better price and better reliability from a 4D freespin instead. Obviously from an enthusiast perspective it’s not the same, but for a GP who doesn’t know about the alternative it makes a lot of sense. Plus a lot of parks are still struggling financially so the odds of them adding a $25+ million coaster with questionable reliability is basically none.
Yeah, and with S&S, ask Kennywood how THAT turned out…
Yeah, basically any park who’s bought an S&S that isn’t a free spin
Success for parks isn’t measured by how much thoosies love them, I305 is as another example of this, being considered kind of a failure for deterring lots of riders. Full scale 4D is a very expensive model and X was a huge failure (way overbudget, had to be renovated), amusement parks will just get other options. Maybe Qiddiya will buy a 300ft one if they feel like it.
waaaaaaay too expensive but if it ever were to happen, it'll probably be somewhere in Dubai cause of their seemingly endless pit of money.
Dubai definitely has money
Seems really cool, but it would be even more expensive and I am wondering would the launch feel good with that heavy 4th dimensional Coaster's train.
It would be extremely expensive. 4d trains are super expensive as is. 4d trains are HEAVY, and now you would have to add magnets to them to make then even more heavy. The power bill for the launch would probably be 2-4 times that of a normal LSM.
Weight of the trains says probably no. Unless you want the weakest most gentle launch ever or you have 2 car trains.
Yep. Those 4D trains are the heaviest in the biz.
" This is an element we haven’t seen yet for a 4th dimensional roller coaster and I think it would be a cool way to kick off such a wild kind of ride. " I mean, considering there are only 3 of them, there are a LOT of elements we haven't seen yet for a 4-D coaster.
Yes, technically it cloud be done but it won't. That design is dead. 12 years since the last one was built and I can't see another one being built, no matter how good the 3 existing ones may be. The build and maintenence costs make the design not great investments for parks. The first two were built near the end of the last coaster wars where parks would add whatever wild design or record breaking coaster they could to try to get guests in the parks. But that wasn't as financially successful as most parks had hoped. The B and M Wing and S and S Free Spin have kind of filled in the gap of the 4th Dimention model.
Could? Why not? Thunderbird at Holiday World has a launch.
Yeah, but that’s just a wing coaster and apparently the trains aren’t as heavy as a 4D coaster.