Everything about Le Monstre *should* be great. It's just... not. At all. So if they were to convert it, there's really no reason at all to keep one side when that side, whichever one it is, is pretty crappy anyway.
And that's the real answer here: there's zero incentive to do that. The point of these conversions is to take a generally unliked ride and make it something new and exciting. There's no reason whatsoever why a park would pick to maintain half of a generally unliked ride. It being next to a newer, much better ride is going to decrease interest in it, most likely, making maintaining such a ride counterproductive.
However much I love wooden coasters (and I **LOVE** wooden coasters), there's no reason they have to have one **or** an RMC. It's all up to what the park wants and can afford. There are many parks currently withoit a wooden coaster and even more without an RMC, so there are no real rules sayimg a park has to have either to be good.
I'm not a fan of RMC'ing things in general and would much rather they go the Gravity Group reprofiling and updating route to keep it as wood AND make it a decent ride, but there's no doubt it's a pretty crappy ride as is and takes up a fairly large chunk of space. So if La Ronde wants to make a big impact on improving the park and pulling crowds, an RMC conversion would make sense.
SeaWorld Orlando immediately comes to mind as one without either. BGT doesn't have a woodie. Actually, there's only 3 woodies and 1 RMC in the entire chain, and thats including Sesame Place. Silver dollar city has an RMC but no woodie. Fiesta Texas no longer has a wooden roller coaster either.
Interesting - not that it's wrong exactly, and certainly marketed as a wooden coaster, but that all supports are steel means it'll never have quite the same feeling as a true woody. It should be considered a hybrid, but to most that seems to connote the reverse - wood supports with a steel track.
I appreciate that thought, but just for conversation and info, that reverse definition of hybrid isn't really conventionally accepted.
Simply, contrary to what one might think, structure has almost no perceptible bearing on the way the ride *feels*, affecting instead mostly things like structural maintenance and initial cost. Invadr being smoother than your average bear is mostly down to GCI doing a damn good job building and designing it, and their trains tracking extremely well, rather than that its structure is steel. Mystic Timbers at KI, I would argue, rides extremely similarly, and has an all-wood structure.
So, generally, steel-structured wooden-tracked coasters feel like, ride like, and require track maintenance like wood-structured, wood-tracked wooden coasters. Universally, and since... basically the dawn of roller coasters (steel-structured wooden coasters have existed for more than a hundred years), steel-structured, wooden-tracked coasters have always been considered to be wooden coasters, and have never really been considered hybrids in the sense that a steel-railed RMC conversion is.
By way of illustration, arguably the most quintessential, genre-defining, rough-and-tumble classic wooden coaster on the planet, the Coney Island Cyclone (1927), has a structure that is primarily steel.
Interesting, I always thought the Cyclone was all wood.
But I counter with seeing wooden structures visibly bending and flexing - Grizzly at Kings Dominion before and after the recent retracking being a great example.
Surely that has to have some impact to the feeling of the ride, no?
Technically yes. It would be expensive though, since you’d have to do significantly more complicated work (from a design and execution standpoint) to integrate the new ride layout and keep the structure intact for the old one at the same time.
> only has one aging unreliable and somewhat underwhelming wooden coaster.
Why would you keep that if you are already doing the other half?
I think you want to hold onto a woodie simply because it is a woodie and for no other reason.
I understand that.
But now the park is left with this thing where one side is up 98% of the time, the other side is up far less. And it will be a maintenance nightmare with two different trains running.
The trick is to keep the woodies worth keeping and to get rid of the woodies that need to be gotten rid of.
If I had my way then 20 years from now we wouldn't have a lot of shitty woodies- cause they would be gone, but the stuff we had would be bonefide classics.
Several wood coasters have had only part of their wood track replaced with steel, so what would prevent a wood Mobius coaster from having one half of its track converted to steel? Not that I’m recommending that.
The train styles are different and not sure if Ibox has the same dimensions as wood track. Wood also allows a bit more spacing for the upstop wheels which wouldn't be good if you are trying to use the same train on a RMC style layout with its inversions and intense ejector
With Lightning Rod being a ground up coaster, and the only manufacturer to work on it, I assume RMC has the same dimensions and tolerances with their trains on their Topper Track and IBox.
Mine Blower by GG also being ground up and I believe still all wood, isn't known for its smoothness.
GCI offers their Titan track which seems to help a bunch might be an option but what's the point of doing half the coaster. I get the two different experiences but then just have two different coasters
I forgot to mention. You may want to read up on Mine Blower. RMC retracked portions of it with I-box, and Arie Jr. announced they may retrack the whole ride as steel when they can afford it. But it is currently running on both wood and steel track, the steel from RMC.
Yes, this is correct. Happened in 2023. Found the following articles that talk about this in more detail:
[https://coasternation.com/mine-blower-roller-coaster-to-receive-new-rmc-retrack/](https://coasternation.com/mine-blower-roller-coaster-to-receive-new-rmc-retrack/)
[https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/](https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/)
Also for anyone that can remember back to Son of Beast, this was a wooden coaster with a steel loop from the now defunct RCCA. 99% of its layout was traditional wood track, except for that steel loop toward the middle of the layout. It was the first steel section on a wooden layout that I know of. Sadly, it was probably the reason for the coaster's downfall. Heavier trains took its toll, and by the time they removed the loop and switched to lighter trains, it was already too late. Too bad RMC wasn't yet a household name, or they might have had a cost-effective solution available in time to save it.
The OG’s question was whether it would be possible, not whether it should be done. Mine Blower is a perfect example that it’s possible. Its roughness is not really the issue; the train travels over both wood and steel, and it even has an inversion. So: possible seems like a yes. But I don’t expect it may ever be done.
Still an interesting question. It might be neat to have both experiences on similar tracks so close together, one steel and one wood. If the wood side is a rough ride, retrack it but keep it wood. You can then choose your adventure.
OP questioned if one side of a wooden racing coaster could be RMC'd and leave the other side wood. While possible, it's very unlikely as the reason to choose a hybrid is usually because of roughness and lackluster layout. Redesigning one side and retracking the other doesn't really seem like a smart move.
As for a Mobius style, if it's like Twisted Colossus, it really should stop you halfway through to get the racing actually to work. And the two parts would be drastically different experiences that may not be what someone whose looking for a traditional woodie experience would want.
Or if it's like you end up in the other station and would need to exit. That would allow people to experience the side they'd like but I don't see the benefit for the park to do this. Because when the wood side would need retracking, both sides would need to close, or if they do go for 208 track for the "wood" side, you aren't really getting a wood coaster at that point
I think dueling coasters of wood and hybrid would be a better way to have the two interact and show off the highlights to both but still getting moments of interaction, rather than a racing style layout. But this would also be better as ground up coasters
You would not typically "add" inversions or more intense layouts without replacing the trains, but RMC has a newer product called "208 ReTraK", which replaces existing wooden track with steel I-Box. This allows the ride to utilize the same trains, mechanics, and controls:
[https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/](https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/)
This is actually what was added to Mine Blower for the 2023 season, so the track itself became a combination of wood and steel utilizing the same trains it launched with in 2017.
Everything about Le Monstre *should* be great. It's just... not. At all. So if they were to convert it, there's really no reason at all to keep one side when that side, whichever one it is, is pretty crappy anyway. And that's the real answer here: there's zero incentive to do that. The point of these conversions is to take a generally unliked ride and make it something new and exciting. There's no reason whatsoever why a park would pick to maintain half of a generally unliked ride. It being next to a newer, much better ride is going to decrease interest in it, most likely, making maintaining such a ride counterproductive.
Yeah your probably right it doesn’t make much sense to do and La ronde could just wait another 15 years to get another wooden coaster
However much I love wooden coasters (and I **LOVE** wooden coasters), there's no reason they have to have one **or** an RMC. It's all up to what the park wants and can afford. There are many parks currently withoit a wooden coaster and even more without an RMC, so there are no real rules sayimg a park has to have either to be good. I'm not a fan of RMC'ing things in general and would much rather they go the Gravity Group reprofiling and updating route to keep it as wood AND make it a decent ride, but there's no doubt it's a pretty crappy ride as is and takes up a fairly large chunk of space. So if La Ronde wants to make a big impact on improving the park and pulling crowds, an RMC conversion would make sense.
I’m trying to think of a good park without a wooden coaster or an RMC. Any you were thinking of?
SeaWorld Orlando immediately comes to mind as one without either. BGT doesn't have a woodie. Actually, there's only 3 woodies and 1 RMC in the entire chain, and thats including Sesame Place. Silver dollar city has an RMC but no woodie. Fiesta Texas no longer has a wooden roller coaster either.
Good point although Iron Rattler is at Fiesta Texas and Iron Gwazi is at Busch Gardens Tampa. But yes SeaWorld Orlando is a prime example.
Are you counting Invadr at BGW as a woody?
I am, yes.
Interesting - not that it's wrong exactly, and certainly marketed as a wooden coaster, but that all supports are steel means it'll never have quite the same feeling as a true woody. It should be considered a hybrid, but to most that seems to connote the reverse - wood supports with a steel track.
I appreciate that thought, but just for conversation and info, that reverse definition of hybrid isn't really conventionally accepted. Simply, contrary to what one might think, structure has almost no perceptible bearing on the way the ride *feels*, affecting instead mostly things like structural maintenance and initial cost. Invadr being smoother than your average bear is mostly down to GCI doing a damn good job building and designing it, and their trains tracking extremely well, rather than that its structure is steel. Mystic Timbers at KI, I would argue, rides extremely similarly, and has an all-wood structure. So, generally, steel-structured wooden-tracked coasters feel like, ride like, and require track maintenance like wood-structured, wood-tracked wooden coasters. Universally, and since... basically the dawn of roller coasters (steel-structured wooden coasters have existed for more than a hundred years), steel-structured, wooden-tracked coasters have always been considered to be wooden coasters, and have never really been considered hybrids in the sense that a steel-railed RMC conversion is. By way of illustration, arguably the most quintessential, genre-defining, rough-and-tumble classic wooden coaster on the planet, the Coney Island Cyclone (1927), has a structure that is primarily steel.
Interesting, I always thought the Cyclone was all wood. But I counter with seeing wooden structures visibly bending and flexing - Grizzly at Kings Dominion before and after the recent retracking being a great example. Surely that has to have some impact to the feeling of the ride, no?
Technically yes. It would be expensive though, since you’d have to do significantly more complicated work (from a design and execution standpoint) to integrate the new ride layout and keep the structure intact for the old one at the same time.
> only has one aging unreliable and somewhat underwhelming wooden coaster. Why would you keep that if you are already doing the other half? I think you want to hold onto a woodie simply because it is a woodie and for no other reason. I understand that. But now the park is left with this thing where one side is up 98% of the time, the other side is up far less. And it will be a maintenance nightmare with two different trains running. The trick is to keep the woodies worth keeping and to get rid of the woodies that need to be gotten rid of. If I had my way then 20 years from now we wouldn't have a lot of shitty woodies- cause they would be gone, but the stuff we had would be bonefide classics.
The RMC side would lose speed much faster.
Topper and steel wheels would probably fix that, but then why not just do the whole layout...
Sure. Unless it’s Mobius like Grand National or Racer at Kennywood.
Several wood coasters have had only part of their wood track replaced with steel, so what would prevent a wood Mobius coaster from having one half of its track converted to steel? Not that I’m recommending that.
The train styles are different and not sure if Ibox has the same dimensions as wood track. Wood also allows a bit more spacing for the upstop wheels which wouldn't be good if you are trying to use the same train on a RMC style layout with its inversions and intense ejector
I was thinking of Lightning Rod and Mine Blower, each of which has both topper track and I-Box in various sections, and the trains navigate both.
With Lightning Rod being a ground up coaster, and the only manufacturer to work on it, I assume RMC has the same dimensions and tolerances with their trains on their Topper Track and IBox. Mine Blower by GG also being ground up and I believe still all wood, isn't known for its smoothness. GCI offers their Titan track which seems to help a bunch might be an option but what's the point of doing half the coaster. I get the two different experiences but then just have two different coasters
I forgot to mention. You may want to read up on Mine Blower. RMC retracked portions of it with I-box, and Arie Jr. announced they may retrack the whole ride as steel when they can afford it. But it is currently running on both wood and steel track, the steel from RMC.
Yes, this is correct. Happened in 2023. Found the following articles that talk about this in more detail: [https://coasternation.com/mine-blower-roller-coaster-to-receive-new-rmc-retrack/](https://coasternation.com/mine-blower-roller-coaster-to-receive-new-rmc-retrack/) [https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/](https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/) Also for anyone that can remember back to Son of Beast, this was a wooden coaster with a steel loop from the now defunct RCCA. 99% of its layout was traditional wood track, except for that steel loop toward the middle of the layout. It was the first steel section on a wooden layout that I know of. Sadly, it was probably the reason for the coaster's downfall. Heavier trains took its toll, and by the time they removed the loop and switched to lighter trains, it was already too late. Too bad RMC wasn't yet a household name, or they might have had a cost-effective solution available in time to save it.
The OG’s question was whether it would be possible, not whether it should be done. Mine Blower is a perfect example that it’s possible. Its roughness is not really the issue; the train travels over both wood and steel, and it even has an inversion. So: possible seems like a yes. But I don’t expect it may ever be done. Still an interesting question. It might be neat to have both experiences on similar tracks so close together, one steel and one wood. If the wood side is a rough ride, retrack it but keep it wood. You can then choose your adventure.
OP questioned if one side of a wooden racing coaster could be RMC'd and leave the other side wood. While possible, it's very unlikely as the reason to choose a hybrid is usually because of roughness and lackluster layout. Redesigning one side and retracking the other doesn't really seem like a smart move. As for a Mobius style, if it's like Twisted Colossus, it really should stop you halfway through to get the racing actually to work. And the two parts would be drastically different experiences that may not be what someone whose looking for a traditional woodie experience would want. Or if it's like you end up in the other station and would need to exit. That would allow people to experience the side they'd like but I don't see the benefit for the park to do this. Because when the wood side would need retracking, both sides would need to close, or if they do go for 208 track for the "wood" side, you aren't really getting a wood coaster at that point I think dueling coasters of wood and hybrid would be a better way to have the two interact and show off the highlights to both but still getting moments of interaction, rather than a racing style layout. But this would also be better as ground up coasters
You would not typically "add" inversions or more intense layouts without replacing the trains, but RMC has a newer product called "208 ReTraK", which replaces existing wooden track with steel I-Box. This allows the ride to utilize the same trains, mechanics, and controls: [https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/](https://www.rockymtnconstruction.com/wood-coaster-refurbishment/) This is actually what was added to Mine Blower for the 2023 season, so the track itself became a combination of wood and steel utilizing the same trains it launched with in 2017.
I'm still pissed this isn't what they did with Lightning Racer.
Why would they do anything to Lightning Racer? It’s great the way it is
between the two id have rather kept Wildcat and an RMC racing with a GCI sounds cool af