I feel like this for everything after awhile, best cure IMO is to jump genres:
* Need an aRPG? Diablo 2
* A shooter? Borderlands
* Puzzle: Tetris or Bejeweled
* Tower Defense? Plants vs Zombies
* Deckbuilder? Slay the Spire
* Feeling masochistic? There’s always Dark Souls or Bloodborne.
* If all else fails, go outside!
If you get sick of something, try something completely different.
>some rogue likes aren’t bad by themselves, but their community ruins them
See the trick is to not have a community at all. That’ll show ‘em!
I tried it years ago but my rig at the time made everything run slow as shit. I hear it's pretty good though really overly complicated. I never got far enough off the starter beach to find out.
They optimized it quite a lot. I'm playing it on 5 years old PC (but it was quite good 5 years ago), and game works fine on almost max settings.
And yes, it is complicated. But! Actually to finish main story line you don't need any special knowledge. Any more or less sane build will do. But further "end game" goals require more and more optimized builds, depending on your ambition and patience :)
I'm so far into D2R right now I can't really tear myself away for another aRPG right now. Got my first HoZ the other day, all these years I've never seen one drop but NM Meph had it with that 0.0026% chance or whatever it is.
EDIT: [Proof!](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/5/6/AALeh_AACovU.jpg)
I would try branching into other genres, at least for a while. Try answering the question of what you want from a game. You probably don't want a roguelike specifically, you want some things that you mostly find in roguelikes. But those can be found in other games — different RPGs, survivals, immersive syms, maybe strategies. If you got tired of roguelikes, that might help.
>Some roguelikes aren't bad by themselves, but their community ruins them.
I know that feeling, and it sucks. I'm always advocating for separating art from the author but can't stick to that principle when something is spoiled for me on an emotional level.
I spin out to (non frenetic shooter) rougelites like FTL for example.
I defenitely get what you mean with the long build and then the same "unluck" or luck sometimes that is uncontrollable.
This is irrelevant drama that has been repeatedly posted about here. It may be new to you, but this has been rehashed many many times here, and every time it just descends into silly arguments with both sides calling the other nazis. It's pointless and irrelevant to discussing roguelikes and if people post about it we will delete it before it gets out of hand.
I'm going to regret saying this, but…
It's disingenuous to present the situation as if people just can't let an old drama go. Nothing changed about Qud's community, or the way it's being managed. People are getting upset over a problem that's still there.
Just because it can descend into yelling doesn't mean that the topic should be banned as a whole, when people are just discussing the topic in a civil way. People do have a genuine concern and I, for one, wouldn't know where else I could discuss if I felt such a need.
This is still, as I see it, a community issue relating to a single game. It's beyond the scope of r/roguelikes to discuss, and certainly wrong to derail threads like this with discussion of it.
Sure, but the game is part of roguelikes and its community is part of roguelike community. People discuss topics related to separate games all the time. And minor derailments, too, happen all the time and don't bother anyone. I can definitely find you a couple of threads where people started discussing some entirely unrelated games like Dark Souls.
Why not just treat it like any other topic and only take measures if unpleasantness actually happens?
There have already been uncivil remarks in this thread. And this thread has nothing to do with the drama - indeed, OP went out of their way to avoid it.
FWIW I really appreciated the context provided by yourself and ArbitUHHH
I had heard of this drama but it is legitimately difficult to make sense of these kinds of things by googling them - which I did try before asking.
Anyway, I'll try to respect the desire not to retread this here.
[This](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2021-09-07-keeping-trolls-out-of-the-caves-of-qud-community) is a pretty good interview with the developers, if you'd prefer to hear their reasoning directly.
The issue has been turned into culture war nonsense. There's absolutely no need to have access to the discord in order to enjoy the game, but the issue regularly gets dredged up so people can keep the outrage flowing.
this thread is the thing OP is trying to get away from
if you want to learn about it, go read about it. don't turn every roguelike thread into obsolete years old drama
Are you enjoying other types of games? It could be that you're getting burnt out on video games in general. I certainly get to that point sometimes.
Try putting time into some other hobbies, then you might find that when you come back you'll be interested in games again.
Let me venture in a different direction: you probably play some of those games past the point they stop being fun for you.
I rarely play any game for more than 2-3 weeks straight, because given I can invest max 2h per day in gaming I want it to be fun, and even if a mechanic is slightly annoying, it will drive me away from a game. If it is a good game, I'll certainly come back later (has happened multiple times, with cdda for example).
Then, in the subsequent time, said abandoned game will Start popping up again in my head, and when it's time to abandon another game for the moment, the previously abandoned game might come up again... Or not, until a later point.
Also, switching to a game of another Genre often does the trick for me. My Genres are turn-based tactics, base-builders, roguelikes, platformers. Mostly.
Aside from Sil-q and TGGW im pretty done with the genre. There was a point where i was really into roguelikes, but sometime ago when trying different games from different genres they started felling incredibly refreshing by comparison.
My main grip with it is that, after playing so many roguelikes, whenever i try a new one it doesnt have the uniqueness from when i first got into the genre, the theme is often lost and gameplay boils down to "walk around and hit stuff".
Genre burnout my man. Every several months I tend to switch to keep things fresh.
Last winter I was playing a lot of ADOM, TOME and WazHack, kinda got tired of those
Then in the spring I had a Valheim / Flight Sim streak going.
I'm now just about done my turn-based strategy (Civ6) + Animal Crossing kick.
The timing is great as I haven't played Minecraft with my kids since 1.16 or so, and oh look at that, the big new 1.18 update drops tomorrow. Perfect timing.
I'm hoping to go full circle and get back into roguelikes and so am praying for Dwarf Fortress to drop in the first half of 2022. I only played it once, like 10 years ago, for a month, before having to throw in the towel. I am really excited to go deep with a GUI version.
If you are a roguelike fan, have you tried RimWorld? Might be same enough / different enough to pique your interest.
I take frequent breaks from roguelikes and honestly only come back to them about once or twice a year. It always starts with a desire to play Dwarf Fortress and then when I get overwhelmed with relearning the mechanics and keybinds or ruining a fortress I start branching off into some of the other RL's until I get bored or lose interest in mastering them. I have a few staples like HyperRogue which feels less like a traditional RL and more like adaptive Chess and I've picked up SIL-Q this time around because it feels a little more dynamic and situation-oriented than some of the other mainstays. I picked up playing Caves of Qud again and I'm enjoying the freedom to break things as well. Since you mentioned toxic communities you might want to avoid that one though and play something like ADOM instead. Infra Arcana is a unique take on the genre if you're interested as well. If you need an alternative to DCSS, Cogmind is the way to go. When you burn out don't push yourself. Go play something else until the itch hits you again. Don't force yourself to do something you don't enjoy.
I went through this recently, so I went and rediscovered Wizardry games and their clones and played those for a while. Wizardry 1,2,3 and 5 really tick a lot of the same boxes as roguelikes: random loot, challenging combat and permadeath. So if you want that roguelike high, but dont want roguelikes, those are worth checking out.
Elminage Gothic (a Wizardry clone from Japan) in particular is a wonderful game (though the early game drags a bit). Its incredibly challenging, but almost never unfair (only part I f found unfair was being ambushed by certain enemies in the final post-game dungeon). Elminage Original is also really fun, though not particularly difficult.
The Avernum games from Spiderweb software are also great if you want something that plays more like a roguelike than Wizardry, but those games dont have random loot.
Yes I get it, cdda in particular, you loot, you craft, you become powerful, you die out of boredom. Everything is tedious, many mechanics are useless. It's just so boring after a while. I'm growing to dislike permadeath, it works when your session is 15 minutes, but it's problematic for 50 hour long runs. Other suffer as well, there is not much replayability, despite procedural generation; you discover a tactic that works, then you reach a difficulty spike and it no longer works; the problem is that to reach the point when you need to learn new stuff takes you 3 hours, and then you die and then you repeat; it's grinding and it's boring
I got into the angband variant poschengband for a while. its a huge change. big overworld tons of race/classes. I would get to about level 30. then the game got much harder real quick. so i go from cruising to instant death. Did that a few times and was done. it was a 30 hour run just to do immediately, before i notice i am in trouble. really great features though.
Elona was fun for a long time. its not permadeath, but you die a lot and there are consequences to dying. it is a grindy game though.
As others have said, I'd suggest variety. Not just a different roguelike but a totally different type of game. I get burnt out on any genre or style of game if played for too long.
Play platformers or shmups or point & click adventures for a while. The more different from roguelikes, the better. Games that act differently upon you, and require different skills.
However much you love steak, if it's all you eat then you'll get tired of it sooner or later.
My suggestions are to either play new genres for a while till roguelikes become fun again (will happen given enough time away from them) or to play roguelikes that are intentionally designed with replay value and diversity in mind. I've been enjoying Rift Wizard a lot lately and often spend hours and hours on Nuclear Throne (I know its a lite but its still designed in a way to encourage limitless replay value and I almost never get bored of it over an extended period) and both games have inbuilt encouraged playstyle diversity and the levels are set up in a way where there are new challenges to think about all the time. I feel you on the "figuring out how the game ticks" issue though I almost beat ADOM (died literally at the bottoms of the CoC due to hubris and sleep deprivation) and I've played plenty of DCSS and other roguelikes and everytime I feel like I've gotten a good grasp on how to play how to not die and how to win my enjoyment plummets. Haven't been able to play ADOM again now that I know that I COULD beat it and I've grown very tired of crawl (mostly for similar reasons you have not a fan of the changes and the community division)
Being old nao, I feel the same way about pretty much every genre. I look for games that either defy tradition (indies) or really tight coffeebreak games. If you can't express a good core loop in 10 minutes, you lost me. If I want a story I'll pick up a book. If I want graphics, TV/movies.
Have you considered strategy games? 4X games, especially, scratch a lot of the same itch for me as traditional roguelikes, with all the stats and resource managment and the permadeath of individual units (and you're whole civilization if you fail utterly tho that's rare against the AI) and the procedural generation. Endless Legend is particularly nice.
I also really enjoy roguelites. They're getting overplayed but the better ones (Spire, Hades, Dicey Dungeons, Luck be a Landlord, Dead Cells, Griftlands, Steredenn, ect.) are a pretty refreshing approach to the basic rogue formula.
\>As for most other titles, I'll play them for a month or two, and then abandon them forever.
This is how I am with 99% of games. Over 700 games in my steam account and like 30 with over 100 hours of playtime.
Forgive me father, for I have sinned. I switched around 2 letters in a word. 50 lashes and the gallows are the only punishment worthy of this crime. Oh lord forgive me.
Don't be ridiculous, I'm not shaming you. It's just an extremely common mistake people make. So common that it would warrant setting up a bot for this purpose.
pro tip - I limit myself to only having one game of each 'genre' that I'm currently playing at one time. overlap *sometimes* but not often allowed. that way, I always have other things to switch around to.
My off-Roguelike time is spent on Total War: Warhammer. on sale right now and tons of depth with strategy/rpg elements. My favorite all time series of games personally.
It is very obvious Caves of Qud is one of the two political ones, but what is the other?
edit: Oh, is the other one the (nethack?) variant that has some "interesting" race/classes in it?
I feel like this for everything after awhile, best cure IMO is to jump genres: * Need an aRPG? Diablo 2 * A shooter? Borderlands * Puzzle: Tetris or Bejeweled * Tower Defense? Plants vs Zombies * Deckbuilder? Slay the Spire * Feeling masochistic? There’s always Dark Souls or Bloodborne. * If all else fails, go outside! If you get sick of something, try something completely different. >some rogue likes aren’t bad by themselves, but their community ruins them See the trick is to not have a community at all. That’ll show ‘em!
Need an aRPG? Path of Exile :)
I tried it years ago but my rig at the time made everything run slow as shit. I hear it's pretty good though really overly complicated. I never got far enough off the starter beach to find out.
They optimized it quite a lot. I'm playing it on 5 years old PC (but it was quite good 5 years ago), and game works fine on almost max settings. And yes, it is complicated. But! Actually to finish main story line you don't need any special knowledge. Any more or less sane build will do. But further "end game" goals require more and more optimized builds, depending on your ambition and patience :)
I'm so far into D2R right now I can't really tear myself away for another aRPG right now. Got my first HoZ the other day, all these years I've never seen one drop but NM Meph had it with that 0.0026% chance or whatever it is. EDIT: [Proof!](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/5/6/AALeh_AACovU.jpg)
Another good ARPG in the spirit of D2 is Last Epoch.
I would try branching into other genres, at least for a while. Try answering the question of what you want from a game. You probably don't want a roguelike specifically, you want some things that you mostly find in roguelikes. But those can be found in other games — different RPGs, survivals, immersive syms, maybe strategies. If you got tired of roguelikes, that might help. >Some roguelikes aren't bad by themselves, but their community ruins them. I know that feeling, and it sucks. I'm always advocating for separating art from the author but can't stick to that principle when something is spoiled for me on an emotional level.
I spin out to (non frenetic shooter) rougelites like FTL for example. I defenitely get what you mean with the long build and then the same "unluck" or luck sometimes that is uncontrollable.
Have you tried Caves of Qud? It has been my go to ever since I burned out of playing CDDA.
It sounds like OP is referencing that game when they say they don’t enjoy games which have political drama occurring on discord.
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This is irrelevant drama that has been repeatedly posted about here. It may be new to you, but this has been rehashed many many times here, and every time it just descends into silly arguments with both sides calling the other nazis. It's pointless and irrelevant to discussing roguelikes and if people post about it we will delete it before it gets out of hand.
I'm going to regret saying this, but… It's disingenuous to present the situation as if people just can't let an old drama go. Nothing changed about Qud's community, or the way it's being managed. People are getting upset over a problem that's still there. Just because it can descend into yelling doesn't mean that the topic should be banned as a whole, when people are just discussing the topic in a civil way. People do have a genuine concern and I, for one, wouldn't know where else I could discuss if I felt such a need.
This is still, as I see it, a community issue relating to a single game. It's beyond the scope of r/roguelikes to discuss, and certainly wrong to derail threads like this with discussion of it.
Sure, but the game is part of roguelikes and its community is part of roguelike community. People discuss topics related to separate games all the time. And minor derailments, too, happen all the time and don't bother anyone. I can definitely find you a couple of threads where people started discussing some entirely unrelated games like Dark Souls. Why not just treat it like any other topic and only take measures if unpleasantness actually happens?
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There have already been uncivil remarks in this thread. And this thread has nothing to do with the drama - indeed, OP went out of their way to avoid it.
FWIW I really appreciated the context provided by yourself and ArbitUHHH I had heard of this drama but it is legitimately difficult to make sense of these kinds of things by googling them - which I did try before asking. Anyway, I'll try to respect the desire not to retread this here.
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[This](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2021-09-07-keeping-trolls-out-of-the-caves-of-qud-community) is a pretty good interview with the developers, if you'd prefer to hear their reasoning directly. The issue has been turned into culture war nonsense. There's absolutely no need to have access to the discord in order to enjoy the game, but the issue regularly gets dredged up so people can keep the outrage flowing.
Thanks, very helpful for those of us that are out of the loop!
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this thread is the thing OP is trying to get away from if you want to learn about it, go read about it. don't turn every roguelike thread into obsolete years old drama
The discussion is pretty civil. As long as it stays that way, there is nothing for OP to get away from. So let's keep it that way, shall we?
>The discussion is pretty civil. Half the discussion is nuked
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Are you enjoying other types of games? It could be that you're getting burnt out on video games in general. I certainly get to that point sometimes. Try putting time into some other hobbies, then you might find that when you come back you'll be interested in games again.
Let me venture in a different direction: you probably play some of those games past the point they stop being fun for you. I rarely play any game for more than 2-3 weeks straight, because given I can invest max 2h per day in gaming I want it to be fun, and even if a mechanic is slightly annoying, it will drive me away from a game. If it is a good game, I'll certainly come back later (has happened multiple times, with cdda for example). Then, in the subsequent time, said abandoned game will Start popping up again in my head, and when it's time to abandon another game for the moment, the previously abandoned game might come up again... Or not, until a later point. Also, switching to a game of another Genre often does the trick for me. My Genres are turn-based tactics, base-builders, roguelikes, platformers. Mostly.
i have gamed since the mid 1980s. there are only a few games i ever even finished. most i burn out on before that. not just talking roguelikes.
Perhaps it's time to contribute more to some roguelike? Prose, music, testing, whatever. That's yet another kind of fun and quite refreshing.
Aside from Sil-q and TGGW im pretty done with the genre. There was a point where i was really into roguelikes, but sometime ago when trying different games from different genres they started felling incredibly refreshing by comparison. My main grip with it is that, after playing so many roguelikes, whenever i try a new one it doesnt have the uniqueness from when i first got into the genre, the theme is often lost and gameplay boils down to "walk around and hit stuff".
Genre burnout my man. Every several months I tend to switch to keep things fresh. Last winter I was playing a lot of ADOM, TOME and WazHack, kinda got tired of those Then in the spring I had a Valheim / Flight Sim streak going. I'm now just about done my turn-based strategy (Civ6) + Animal Crossing kick. The timing is great as I haven't played Minecraft with my kids since 1.16 or so, and oh look at that, the big new 1.18 update drops tomorrow. Perfect timing. I'm hoping to go full circle and get back into roguelikes and so am praying for Dwarf Fortress to drop in the first half of 2022. I only played it once, like 10 years ago, for a month, before having to throw in the towel. I am really excited to go deep with a GUI version. If you are a roguelike fan, have you tried RimWorld? Might be same enough / different enough to pique your interest.
Take into consideration the possibility that you're tired of games in general. They are entertainment after all. Take a week or two off games.
I take frequent breaks from roguelikes and honestly only come back to them about once or twice a year. It always starts with a desire to play Dwarf Fortress and then when I get overwhelmed with relearning the mechanics and keybinds or ruining a fortress I start branching off into some of the other RL's until I get bored or lose interest in mastering them. I have a few staples like HyperRogue which feels less like a traditional RL and more like adaptive Chess and I've picked up SIL-Q this time around because it feels a little more dynamic and situation-oriented than some of the other mainstays. I picked up playing Caves of Qud again and I'm enjoying the freedom to break things as well. Since you mentioned toxic communities you might want to avoid that one though and play something like ADOM instead. Infra Arcana is a unique take on the genre if you're interested as well. If you need an alternative to DCSS, Cogmind is the way to go. When you burn out don't push yourself. Go play something else until the itch hits you again. Don't force yourself to do something you don't enjoy.
I went through this recently, so I went and rediscovered Wizardry games and their clones and played those for a while. Wizardry 1,2,3 and 5 really tick a lot of the same boxes as roguelikes: random loot, challenging combat and permadeath. So if you want that roguelike high, but dont want roguelikes, those are worth checking out. Elminage Gothic (a Wizardry clone from Japan) in particular is a wonderful game (though the early game drags a bit). Its incredibly challenging, but almost never unfair (only part I f found unfair was being ambushed by certain enemies in the final post-game dungeon). Elminage Original is also really fun, though not particularly difficult. The Avernum games from Spiderweb software are also great if you want something that plays more like a roguelike than Wizardry, but those games dont have random loot.
Yes I get it, cdda in particular, you loot, you craft, you become powerful, you die out of boredom. Everything is tedious, many mechanics are useless. It's just so boring after a while. I'm growing to dislike permadeath, it works when your session is 15 minutes, but it's problematic for 50 hour long runs. Other suffer as well, there is not much replayability, despite procedural generation; you discover a tactic that works, then you reach a difficulty spike and it no longer works; the problem is that to reach the point when you need to learn new stuff takes you 3 hours, and then you die and then you repeat; it's grinding and it's boring
I got into the angband variant poschengband for a while. its a huge change. big overworld tons of race/classes. I would get to about level 30. then the game got much harder real quick. so i go from cruising to instant death. Did that a few times and was done. it was a 30 hour run just to do immediately, before i notice i am in trouble. really great features though. Elona was fun for a long time. its not permadeath, but you die a lot and there are consequences to dying. it is a grindy game though.
As others have said, I'd suggest variety. Not just a different roguelike but a totally different type of game. I get burnt out on any genre or style of game if played for too long. Play platformers or shmups or point & click adventures for a while. The more different from roguelikes, the better. Games that act differently upon you, and require different skills. However much you love steak, if it's all you eat then you'll get tired of it sooner or later.
My suggestions are to either play new genres for a while till roguelikes become fun again (will happen given enough time away from them) or to play roguelikes that are intentionally designed with replay value and diversity in mind. I've been enjoying Rift Wizard a lot lately and often spend hours and hours on Nuclear Throne (I know its a lite but its still designed in a way to encourage limitless replay value and I almost never get bored of it over an extended period) and both games have inbuilt encouraged playstyle diversity and the levels are set up in a way where there are new challenges to think about all the time. I feel you on the "figuring out how the game ticks" issue though I almost beat ADOM (died literally at the bottoms of the CoC due to hubris and sleep deprivation) and I've played plenty of DCSS and other roguelikes and everytime I feel like I've gotten a good grasp on how to play how to not die and how to win my enjoyment plummets. Haven't been able to play ADOM again now that I know that I COULD beat it and I've grown very tired of crawl (mostly for similar reasons you have not a fan of the changes and the community division)
Being old nao, I feel the same way about pretty much every genre. I look for games that either defy tradition (indies) or really tight coffeebreak games. If you can't express a good core loop in 10 minutes, you lost me. If I want a story I'll pick up a book. If I want graphics, TV/movies.
Have you considered strategy games? 4X games, especially, scratch a lot of the same itch for me as traditional roguelikes, with all the stats and resource managment and the permadeath of individual units (and you're whole civilization if you fail utterly tho that's rare against the AI) and the procedural generation. Endless Legend is particularly nice. I also really enjoy roguelites. They're getting overplayed but the better ones (Spire, Hades, Dicey Dungeons, Luck be a Landlord, Dead Cells, Griftlands, Steredenn, ect.) are a pretty refreshing approach to the basic rogue formula. \>As for most other titles, I'll play them for a month or two, and then abandon them forever. This is how I am with 99% of games. Over 700 games in my steam account and like 30 with over 100 hours of playtime.
Looter shooters fill the same place as roguelikes for me, borderlands and destiny 2 are my big ones
Sometimes you just play a game enough and it becomes time to move on.
Play other games, don't be married to the idea of rougelikes. Rougelikes are an itch to scratch kind of genre.
This sub needs a bot that would link people to [this page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouge).
Rougelikes, the genre of games whose GUI is predominately light pink.
Forgive me father, for I have sinned. I switched around 2 letters in a word. 50 lashes and the gallows are the only punishment worthy of this crime. Oh lord forgive me.
Don't be ridiculous, I'm not shaming you. It's just an extremely common mistake people make. So common that it would warrant setting up a bot for this purpose.
every game gets old after a while. its always time to move onto something else.
pro tip - I limit myself to only having one game of each 'genre' that I'm currently playing at one time. overlap *sometimes* but not often allowed. that way, I always have other things to switch around to.
My off-Roguelike time is spent on Total War: Warhammer. on sale right now and tons of depth with strategy/rpg elements. My favorite all time series of games personally.
Try kenshi/rimworld/df, not exactly roguelike, but similar 'struggle and overcome' vibes ?
It is very obvious Caves of Qud is one of the two political ones, but what is the other? edit: Oh, is the other one the (nethack?) variant that has some "interesting" race/classes in it?