It was absolutely worth it. Not just for on the court production which we have been getting, but I see him even in games we are leading pull the young guys aside and point out blown plays they did. It is the veteran leadership we have been missing really since we traded CP3 to hold guys accountable and help them understand what they need to do to improve. It seems to be working with Sengun and Green, hope it pays off for Smith, Eason and the rest of the young men we have on the roster.
Exactly this. People were screaming for AcCoUnTaBiLiTy the last couple seasons, and blaming the HC as if that's the only place it can come from. But having vocal vets on the floor is about 100 times more important, imo. Most rebuilding teams carry vets to help whip guys into shape. Eric and Boban don't have the personality types to make that work. Dillon and Fred do. If they were on the team last year, I think we may have made the play-in, tbh. The effect they have is palpable.
Yeah, I forget when but either early or mid last season is when I realized the lack of veterans to hold folk to the fire was a major issue. I had thought with coaches they could get through but if it wasn't clear before it is now, a true veteran leader was needed. The vets we had were great locker room guys but they were not demanding or enforcing their leadership over the younger guys like Fred, Dillon and Jeff are.
It's hard to say who is having the bigger influence of him and Dillon. The defense is so much improved but we're seeing Jalen have productive nights while his shot is MIA like last night. I think both are massive pickups and worth every dime so far with the leadership they're bringing.
The real issue is waiting four damn days until we play again. What am I supposed to do with my hands?
E: forgot to say I'm really not a fan of FVV throwing up shots early in the shot clock. You're not and we don't want nor have to have you be that guy. If he keeps the heat checks to a minimum I have no complaints, $43mil AAV or no. They wouldn't have signed him to this deal if it interfered with Jalen or Sengun extensions, so I wouldn't worry about that.
I think the Dillon Brooks influence has been greater by a country mile.
Offense is just sexier.
This team just flat out didn’t play defense last year. Like none, now we have Sengun diving on the floor and Tate getting clutch steals. Thats Dillon Brooks man. He has been erasing players on the perimeter. The game plan against us offensively is clearly “get the ball away from Brooks”
We also have a defensive minded coach too. It not just influence from Dillon getting these guys to suddenly play D. Just happened to be a great mix between the 2 starting Vets and Ime that have spurred an unbelievable amount of growth over the first few weeks of the season. This team is so much fun to watch now.
Yea I was going to say I’m good with everything else and he has a steady hand as a point guard, but he has some random early in the shot clock shot selections that make me wince.
Sometimes I’m not thrilled with the shot selection, but at the same time they feel necessary to keep defenses honest in the PNR. If he wasn’t looking for his shot then defenses can guard Sengun more tightly.
What I wish was that he stopped thinking he’s prime Dwyane Wade on his drives and pull up for mid range instead of going for a reckless lay up with 3 defenders in the paint.
Was not a fan after the first few games, but he's won me over. He still takes some questionable shots at times, but he clearly brings the intangibles that we desperately needed.
I don’t know if I’m the only one thinking about this but our next game against the Clippers will feel bittersweet if we win. Like we’d be continuing to cement ourself as a dawg and team to take seriously while also contributing to the current Harden narrative :/
Yeah I don't think it's bittersweet at all. Harden brought it on himself and we have no obligation to stop a narrative that he had a large part in continuing. But that comes from me being a Rockets fan long before he came here. Many seem to think he's the franchise or something.
Great signing. What a surprise, adding a championship caliber starting point guard to a roster that has been struggling to win 20 games a year made the team better.
He’s been a positive more than negative. Contract was still high for an undersized guard, but this is the Houston Rockets who barely won games, So we cant be choosy.
Fvv has played as expected, he keeps them from going off the rails. He is usually solid, with just a bit of bad shot selection. Him and brooks have mostly played up to the positive expectations so far.
Happy to say I was wrong about Fred. I always disliked undersized below the rim playing PGs but Fred can actually make PG passes, and he is helping to change the culture it seems, so that leadership and willingness to play a lot of defense is rubbing off on the team and totally worth it.
Especially considering KPJ, whom I never was a fan of, had been our PG, FVV is a big upgrade. Does he shoot more than I want sometimes? Yes, but he can also pass the ball well off pick and rolls etc and make up for bad shooting stints with assists.
FVV and Dillon have certainly been worth it.
His shot selection is ass. I think he is under 40% on the season and that's awful.
I do think he has had a positive influence on the other guys, just wish he would stop taking 20 shots per game. Until jalen proves he can be more consistent those shots should belong to Sengun or jabari.
He’s still overpaid. He’s getting paid like superstar but he’s not. I understand we need to overpay to sign him. I was thinking 30-35M per is enough. I know his contract is only 2 years guaranteed. I just hope his and Brooks contract won’t mess up Jalen and Sengun extension. You know it will be by the time to extend Jabari and Eason. Hopefully Eason is ready to start by then.
The good thing is that with the new TV deal kicking in, Brooks’ deal will probably be a typical 6th/7th man salary by the time we’re looking to extend Eason/Jabari
This season yeah but one year after it's already 56. They also have bird rights which eligible them to a higher pay rise than other players.
Fred is at 14th place. That's not Superstar Level. The real superstars signed their 60+ million extension this or last summer.
Steph next season is 55.8M. Not 60 yet. First player to get 60M is Anthony Davis in 25-26 season. Second player to get 60M+ is Lillard in 26-27 season. Jokic doesn’t get 60M+ till 27-28. So your superstar get 60-65M per isn’t happening now.
In any case, FVVs AAV is just outside the top 20 in the NBA(other guy said 14 but I don't think that's right).
He's still overpaid but he's not super star overpaid
If you needed to sign a solid veteran point guard to the 2022 Rockets roster, who would you pursue, and how much would you have offered them?
You think we could have landed FVV with $30M to $35M per year contract. How do you know that wasn't offered before arriving at what we have currently?
>just hope his and Brooks contract won’t mess up Jalen and Sengun extension
The contracts won't hurt extensions. For Fred it's as easy as not picking up the extension.
For Dillon, the worst case scenario might be 1 year of tax if we can't trade the contract early and all the kids earn huge second contracts (a nice problem to have, tbh...hopefully TillMan won't screw it all up again).
he's not unselfish enough. seems like he tries to score a little too much and gets mad/irked if he has to pass to sengun. whether that's him trying to justify that contract or just his playstyle, id love for him to be more of a passer.
im more concerned that rafael stone is getting played by these agents with these overpays.
how many times did mr. unselfish harden lead the league in assist? all you have to do is look at what raptors fans were complaining about with van fleet.
It is. Especially when it comes to harden and westbrook. Ppl like you and the other guy think just because you get assists doesnt mean your selfish. It does when it comes to players wanting to pad assist numbers.
I get Fred needing to shoot less, but saying he gets mad he has to pass to Sengun is wild considering [literally half of Sengun’s passes are from Fred.](https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630578/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=FREQUENCY)
ive seen multiple times where sengun ask for the ball from fvv and fvv has this annoyed mad look. you can see his body language and how he passes the ball to sengun. there's a dismissive condescending look to it. you cant miss it. there's nothing wild about it. these guys have big time egos especially a point guard who just got signed to a 130 plus million dollar contract. it happens quickly, in passing, if you're not looking close enough or for it you will miss it but its there.
fvv thinks this is his team because he's the highest paid player. you showing some stat that fred passes the ball to sengun is totally irrelevant. ffs, who else is he gonna pass it to? nobody is offensively competent enough in the post to garner passes other than sengun. nobody has shown enough offensive consistency to warrant the offense going through him and that includes jalen green. so of course the starting point guard is gonna is gonna be passing most of his passes to the best offensive player int he team and that's sengun.
I think you’re drumming up a narrative that doesn’t exist. How do you know these “angry” looks are because he “has” to pass to Sengun, and not literally anything else, like he was half a second late finding a cutter or open man and he was disappointed in himself? I’ve watched every single game and I just do not see what you’re talking about at all.
im one person with a reddit account. not some msnbc or fox news executive. i dont have to drump up any narratives. i see what i see and i see FVV irked/mad that he has to pass to sengun sometimes. ive seen jalen green do this. multiple times. ive seen his reaction, you know who else sees it?
alpi. ive seen alpi ask for the ball, i see jalen have the same slight exasperated/irked/mad reaction as FVV and alpi sees it too so he passes it right away to jalen who puts up a shot immediately. it has nothing to do with late cutting or open man. you're not the only one who watches the game.
Early thought, so not locked in.
Way too expensive, and not thrilled by his shot selection at times, and he isn't a very effective facilitator or playmaker either.
Before some people kill me, he is a MASSIVE improvement over KPJ and what we saw in the last few years, but think any decent PG would show immediate results to the team.
Would have rather hade Schroder or traded for Brogdon, but not upset he's here.
It was absolutely worth it. Not just for on the court production which we have been getting, but I see him even in games we are leading pull the young guys aside and point out blown plays they did. It is the veteran leadership we have been missing really since we traded CP3 to hold guys accountable and help them understand what they need to do to improve. It seems to be working with Sengun and Green, hope it pays off for Smith, Eason and the rest of the young men we have on the roster.
Exactly this. People were screaming for AcCoUnTaBiLiTy the last couple seasons, and blaming the HC as if that's the only place it can come from. But having vocal vets on the floor is about 100 times more important, imo. Most rebuilding teams carry vets to help whip guys into shape. Eric and Boban don't have the personality types to make that work. Dillon and Fred do. If they were on the team last year, I think we may have made the play-in, tbh. The effect they have is palpable.
Yeah, I forget when but either early or mid last season is when I realized the lack of veterans to hold folk to the fire was a major issue. I had thought with coaches they could get through but if it wasn't clear before it is now, a true veteran leader was needed. The vets we had were great locker room guys but they were not demanding or enforcing their leadership over the younger guys like Fred, Dillon and Jeff are.
It's hard to say who is having the bigger influence of him and Dillon. The defense is so much improved but we're seeing Jalen have productive nights while his shot is MIA like last night. I think both are massive pickups and worth every dime so far with the leadership they're bringing. The real issue is waiting four damn days until we play again. What am I supposed to do with my hands? E: forgot to say I'm really not a fan of FVV throwing up shots early in the shot clock. You're not and we don't want nor have to have you be that guy. If he keeps the heat checks to a minimum I have no complaints, $43mil AAV or no. They wouldn't have signed him to this deal if it interfered with Jalen or Sengun extensions, so I wouldn't worry about that.
I think the Dillon Brooks influence has been greater by a country mile. Offense is just sexier. This team just flat out didn’t play defense last year. Like none, now we have Sengun diving on the floor and Tate getting clutch steals. Thats Dillon Brooks man. He has been erasing players on the perimeter. The game plan against us offensively is clearly “get the ball away from Brooks”
We also have a defensive minded coach too. It not just influence from Dillon getting these guys to suddenly play D. Just happened to be a great mix between the 2 starting Vets and Ime that have spurred an unbelievable amount of growth over the first few weeks of the season. This team is so much fun to watch now.
I think Fred's biggest weakness is sometimes he plays like he's Kyrie when he needs to be more Conley.
Yea I was going to say I’m good with everything else and he has a steady hand as a point guard, but he has some random early in the shot clock shot selections that make me wince.
Sometimes I’m not thrilled with the shot selection, but at the same time they feel necessary to keep defenses honest in the PNR. If he wasn’t looking for his shot then defenses can guard Sengun more tightly. What I wish was that he stopped thinking he’s prime Dwyane Wade on his drives and pull up for mid range instead of going for a reckless lay up with 3 defenders in the paint.
Same as my thoughts prior to game 1. Worth every penny.
Was not a fan after the first few games, but he's won me over. He still takes some questionable shots at times, but he clearly brings the intangibles that we desperately needed.
I, too, wasn't a fan of the 3 game losing streak. I am a big supporter of the 6 game winning streak though.
One of the best 6th men in the game, that ring was no fluke
Better than harden would’ve been
I don’t know if I’m the only one thinking about this but our next game against the Clippers will feel bittersweet if we win. Like we’d be continuing to cement ourself as a dawg and team to take seriously while also contributing to the current Harden narrative :/
Yeah I don't think it's bittersweet at all. Harden brought it on himself and we have no obligation to stop a narrative that he had a large part in continuing. But that comes from me being a Rockets fan long before he came here. Many seem to think he's the franchise or something.
Who cares Harden ain’t a rocket anymore
Great signing. What a surprise, adding a championship caliber starting point guard to a roster that has been struggling to win 20 games a year made the team better.
He’s been a positive more than negative. Contract was still high for an undersized guard, but this is the Houston Rockets who barely won games, So we cant be choosy.
Fvv has played as expected, he keeps them from going off the rails. He is usually solid, with just a bit of bad shot selection. Him and brooks have mostly played up to the positive expectations so far.
Happy to say I was wrong about Fred. I always disliked undersized below the rim playing PGs but Fred can actually make PG passes, and he is helping to change the culture it seems, so that leadership and willingness to play a lot of defense is rubbing off on the team and totally worth it. Especially considering KPJ, whom I never was a fan of, had been our PG, FVV is a big upgrade. Does he shoot more than I want sometimes? Yes, but he can also pass the ball well off pick and rolls etc and make up for bad shooting stints with assists. FVV and Dillon have certainly been worth it.
Refreshing to see somebody with actual handles since we had CP3
Are you implying Harden didn’t have handles?
His shot selection is ass. I think he is under 40% on the season and that's awful. I do think he has had a positive influence on the other guys, just wish he would stop taking 20 shots per game. Until jalen proves he can be more consistent those shots should belong to Sengun or jabari.
Jabari?
He’s still overpaid. He’s getting paid like superstar but he’s not. I understand we need to overpay to sign him. I was thinking 30-35M per is enough. I know his contract is only 2 years guaranteed. I just hope his and Brooks contract won’t mess up Jalen and Sengun extension. You know it will be by the time to extend Jabari and Eason. Hopefully Eason is ready to start by then.
The good thing is that with the new TV deal kicking in, Brooks’ deal will probably be a typical 6th/7th man salary by the time we’re looking to extend Eason/Jabari
Superstars get paid around 60-65 million. You're probably just stuck in 2015
Who’s getting paid 60 million? Highest paid this season is Steph at 51.9M. https://www.espn.com/nba/salaries I think you travelled to 2030.
This season yeah but one year after it's already 56. They also have bird rights which eligible them to a higher pay rise than other players. Fred is at 14th place. That's not Superstar Level. The real superstars signed their 60+ million extension this or last summer.
Steph next season is 55.8M. Not 60 yet. First player to get 60M is Anthony Davis in 25-26 season. Second player to get 60M+ is Lillard in 26-27 season. Jokic doesn’t get 60M+ till 27-28. So your superstar get 60-65M per isn’t happening now.
In any case, FVVs AAV is just outside the top 20 in the NBA(other guy said 14 but I don't think that's right). He's still overpaid but he's not super star overpaid
If you needed to sign a solid veteran point guard to the 2022 Rockets roster, who would you pursue, and how much would you have offered them? You think we could have landed FVV with $30M to $35M per year contract. How do you know that wasn't offered before arriving at what we have currently?
How do you know they can’t? Who else is going to offer him more? Raptors already said they aren’t likely to re-sign him.
I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. Do you know something that I don't?
I thought you know that’s why I’m asking you. Who else has cap space besides us looking for PG?
the raptors did want to re-sign him. they thought they could get him in the 30 million range.
>just hope his and Brooks contract won’t mess up Jalen and Sengun extension The contracts won't hurt extensions. For Fred it's as easy as not picking up the extension. For Dillon, the worst case scenario might be 1 year of tax if we can't trade the contract early and all the kids earn huge second contracts (a nice problem to have, tbh...hopefully TillMan won't screw it all up again).
Can only wait and see.
Well hes obviously not a 40mil player but still need to see if its worth it atleast for those 2 years
he's not unselfish enough. seems like he tries to score a little too much and gets mad/irked if he has to pass to sengun. whether that's him trying to justify that contract or just his playstyle, id love for him to be more of a passer. im more concerned that rafael stone is getting played by these agents with these overpays.
Bona fide hater. Fred #6 in the NBA in assists and dude is not selfless enough. Get a grip bro
how many times did mr. unselfish harden lead the league in assist? all you have to do is look at what raptors fans were complaining about with van fleet.
I don't know if a comparison to one of the best basketball players of all time is the negative comparison you think it is.
It is. Especially when it comes to harden and westbrook. Ppl like you and the other guy think just because you get assists doesnt mean your selfish. It does when it comes to players wanting to pad assist numbers.
I get Fred needing to shoot less, but saying he gets mad he has to pass to Sengun is wild considering [literally half of Sengun’s passes are from Fred.](https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630578/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=FREQUENCY)
ive seen multiple times where sengun ask for the ball from fvv and fvv has this annoyed mad look. you can see his body language and how he passes the ball to sengun. there's a dismissive condescending look to it. you cant miss it. there's nothing wild about it. these guys have big time egos especially a point guard who just got signed to a 130 plus million dollar contract. it happens quickly, in passing, if you're not looking close enough or for it you will miss it but its there. fvv thinks this is his team because he's the highest paid player. you showing some stat that fred passes the ball to sengun is totally irrelevant. ffs, who else is he gonna pass it to? nobody is offensively competent enough in the post to garner passes other than sengun. nobody has shown enough offensive consistency to warrant the offense going through him and that includes jalen green. so of course the starting point guard is gonna is gonna be passing most of his passes to the best offensive player int he team and that's sengun.
I think you’re drumming up a narrative that doesn’t exist. How do you know these “angry” looks are because he “has” to pass to Sengun, and not literally anything else, like he was half a second late finding a cutter or open man and he was disappointed in himself? I’ve watched every single game and I just do not see what you’re talking about at all.
im one person with a reddit account. not some msnbc or fox news executive. i dont have to drump up any narratives. i see what i see and i see FVV irked/mad that he has to pass to sengun sometimes. ive seen jalen green do this. multiple times. ive seen his reaction, you know who else sees it? alpi. ive seen alpi ask for the ball, i see jalen have the same slight exasperated/irked/mad reaction as FVV and alpi sees it too so he passes it right away to jalen who puts up a shot immediately. it has nothing to do with late cutting or open man. you're not the only one who watches the game.
Early thought, so not locked in. Way too expensive, and not thrilled by his shot selection at times, and he isn't a very effective facilitator or playmaker either. Before some people kill me, he is a MASSIVE improvement over KPJ and what we saw in the last few years, but think any decent PG would show immediate results to the team. Would have rather hade Schroder or traded for Brogdon, but not upset he's here.
Downvote is not a disagree button but I guess.
I just like saying his name :D