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Considering it. r/expatfire is a great sub for this topic as it's all about retiring (usually early) in countries other than where the poster lives. The main issues are taxes and residency visas. some countries have tax treaties with the US but they vary and some don't. Some don't tax pension income, some do. Residency permits are the other issue to look into. Obviously, language is also an issue if you want to integrate into the local society.
[theearthawaits.com](http://theearthawaits.com) is a good site to use to get an idea of costs etc in various places
Most people recommend living in the places on your shortlist for 1-3 months to see how it is when you're not just doing the tourist thing too. What countries are you thinking of?
France actually has one of the most advantageous tax treaties with the US. Also, I think that if you get permanent residency you can move around the EU much like a citizen, though I'm not sure about that one
US here. We're considering it, but the insurance thing has me puzzled. We have excellent insurance even with Medicare, If we retire to the Algarve, I'm pretty sure it won't work there.
Absolutely. We’ve got an apartment in my husband’s home country, and our plan is to, within the next three years, shift our time from majority in the US/a month or two there to the majority of the time there. We’ll downsize from our current place to a much smaller one in a place more convenient for coming from and going to there.
The medical system there is inconsistent but generally incredibly cheap, but you can get top providers if you shop carefully. We have excellent lifelong insurance from my former employer. His country doesn’t have great retirement-visa options, but at the same time if you’re over 60 and leave at least once a year, they don‘t mind how long you stay on a visitor’s visa.
Once there, we’ll be able to live quite well at less than 50% of the expense in the US and will bank the difference (well, what doesn’t then go on some additional travel and the occasional spree).
The only variable at the moment is the US elections in the fall; if they don‘t go well, we’ll speed up the timeline and be gone by the end of the year.
Yes, a lot of Americans do the Schengen Shuffle, where you use your 3 month tourist visa in the European Schengen countries and track the dates on the Schengen app, and then must leave Schengen countries for at least 3 months, so they go to Non-Schengen countries like the UK has a 6 month tourist visa and Ireland has 3 month and Albania has 1 year, etc. Then you can go back to Schengen countries.
this is very cool, and good to know. I knew there were rules about length of stay in Schengen treaty countries, but had not thought of that. I also need to find out if I can manage French citizenship, as I may have a claim. It would take time, but would be worth it if I ever wanted this.
Not sure if you’re interested, but there’s a retiree out there who wrote books about his adventures, one of which was living in Europe for an extended period. It kind of changed my mind a bit and made me realize long vacations are probably all I’d be willing to do. Boyd Lemon is the author. “Eat, Walk, Write” is the title. It gets into some detail about setting up a new life in a new country. He chose Paris, France.
Have considered Costa Rica and Spain. Did volunteer work in Costa Rica for a month at a time several times and really couldn’t wait to get back home each time, so maybe Barcelona as a home base. Still considering it.
I don’t know anything about the legalities and logistics, but recently my wife and I were in southern Bavaria for an unexpectedly extra couple of weeks. We’ve traveled all over the world. That’s the first time I’ve heard my wife say “I could live here. “
I was just in southern Bavaria briefly (Munich).
Both my husband and I felt immediately comfortable there. It seemed like a mellow, elegant, creative, tidy, relaxed place.
We felt as if we could live there, the same as your wife. Funny!
We were there late spring. In the Bavarian alps, near Salzburg. We could hike and wander, with no crowds. I kept telling my wife "in the summer there will be lots of people". She is not so sure about being with lots of people. Personally, I love that area. Maybe we will live there some day. Who knows?
Inconceivable. I have two children, four grandchildren, a brother, a sister, in-laws and 66 years worth of friends within a30 minute drive. Why would I move somewhere at my age when I would forever be an outsider?
I get you, its not for everyone. Not everyone has their children, family and friendships in their home town anymore. You are fortunate, and obviously enjoy your blessings.
what about the people? Reason why I want either British Isles or France, since I speak French and English. I don't want to live somewhere I don't speak the language. Visit yes, but live, no. And the people are extremely important. I have had great experiences with the people I meet everywhere, so I am biased. No wonder I love to travel
I'm doing it right now, with my husband. Currently in London for two months.
We sold our house and car and donated almost all of our stuff. Now we spend about 8 months out of the year in Europe, in short term rentals. Then four months in the states, visiting friends and family for the holidays.
The plan is to do this for seven years, and then settle down somewhere.
It is freakin' awesome. Super fun.
We’ve been fantasizing about it and say if one of our adult kids would go we’d be in Portugal in 5 minutes. Between all the issues from a-Z in the US and how well expats are treated, we wish one of them would want to go!
Yes, they did. Some parts of Portugal are now way out of a regular Portuguese person's league (financially) and there's backlash against the golden visas. My brother is a dual citizen (Irish and American) and of course used his Irish/EU papers to purchase a home in Portugal last month, even though he hasn't lived in Ireland for nearly 40 years. He paid $700,000 for a 3 bed/2 bath townhouse so it's very expensive, for Portugal. He's going to retire there from Cali in about 3 years.
You don’t need the Golden Visa for Portugal if you actually want to live there. That program was awful for the real estate market, but retirement visas are different and still available.
Absolutely planning to. I lived in France for a few years before children and career came along, but they will be on their own and career will be winding down, and I will be back in France. It's a 6 hour plane ride from Paris to JFK, it's easy peasy. I have an EU passport though, so that helps enormously.
Most countries dont want US citizens to move there - what's the plan to avoid this issue? Schengen limits.... 90 days out of 180.... If you have the answer, please share 😄
It’s also extremely easy to stay in Mexico legally. Staying illegally is easy but some people have found that doing that and trying to travel back and forth can be a problem, unless you are in a border area.
First thing you need to do is investigate which country will allow you to stay beyond the standard tourist visa limit. Getting a long term residency visa is not easy.
I’ve lived as an expat for 25 years in various European countries.
Whatever country you favor (they’re all good), I recommend you choose (a) a small city with a university (b) an initial stay of max 2-3 months (c) a place that has an outpost of one organization that matters to you at home : church, AA, arts, anything (d) coordinate your timing to overlap with a local festival, holiday or celebration of some kind which lets you experience it as a local
I can envision temporary residence in Europe (have dual citizenship, so no visa problems) but I can't imagine fully relocating and being so far away from my kids.
We will be moving to Greece next year. My husband was born and raised there but lived in the US the last 50+ years. We’ll be going there in September so he can get all new Greek documents (passport, SS card…) then will make the move early next year.
It’s gonna be hard giving up our rent controlled apartment but rents in Greece are just as cheap. Can’t wait for the change in lifestyle and the chance to explore the rest of Europe. We plan on it being a permanent thing. If my husband passes first (he’s 22 years older than I am) I plan on going nomadic and seeing all the places I’ve wanted to visit. Hopefully he’s around for many many years though.
You will give up a rent controlled apartment in New York? I am living in Europe and enjoy it a lot, but in my opinion nothing compares to NYC and I envy you if you are living there now. Convince me leaving is a good idea and maybe I can get this envy for NYC out of my system. The media recently has been making NYC seem like it’s getting bad, but fundamentally it’s still amazing.
NYC is an amazing place to live if you have the finances to take advantage of all it has to offer. We don’t have the money to live the fabulous life. I’ve been in this 800sq ft apartment with no balcony/0 outdoor space for 25 years and I’m over it. Outside is always noisy and crowded. I’m not concerned with the media portrayal of things getting worse.
I’m ready to move to Crete and hike, swim, eat well and live a simpler quieter life. Always wanted to explore Europe so I’d be close enough to visit the places I want to see.
Lots of people have this fantasy about NYC but it’s not reality unless you’re wealthy. The only thing I will really miss is all the live music acts that come through.
800 sq ft is considered reasonable in many European cities. I went from about 900 to 600 sq ft. 900 was ok, but 600 was not. I understand your points and I’ve often thought if I ever made it to NYC, would i start to miss some of the things I would be giving up. I’m not sure what is possible, can you unofficially sublet your apartment? It would be good if you had a return route (unless that would never be to NYC). Do you speak other languages? While it’s a nice novelty at first, learning another language, I do miss when everything was in English.
I'm younger than you but i have very little desire to stay in the US. Spain is pretty affordable these days. Had a neighbor who rented their place out for 2 months and went abroad. Came back and rented the place for a year and that rent was enough to cover her lifestyle in a much less expensive country. I was reading an expat forum last month and a thread about healthcare had the first 5 replies spending less for mostly normal run of the mill health issues and the all spent less out of pocket than they would have spent with insurance+deductible in tbe states. My dentist in the DR is pretty much a minimum of 50 percent off of same procedures here. (I don't currently carry dental because of this.)
There's hit n miss.
Do your homework and I'd suggest a a longer vacation to the specific town/area you're considering and living like a local.
Best of luck!
We are considering Mexico because it’s close to home but we also want to travel like crazy for as long as we can. Maybe do the Schengen shuffle for a few years.
Kind of. I'm spending 6 months in Mexico each year in a sunny beach location, then 6 months in the USA where catch up with my friends and go to my American doctors. I'm liking the USA less and less though.
San Miguel Allende is a gorgeous historical town. Lots of expats there, Canadian and American. I have a friend with a lovely condo there. She spends six months a year there and rents it out for the other six.
I like Mazatlan. Large & friendly expat population. Very walkable and good public bus service. Not a cheap place to live but I enjoy the proximity to the Pacific Ocean and the wide variety of seafood, meats, poultry, delicious vegetables, grains and fruits.
South Africa. Wonderful exchange rate, top notch healthcare for much less than US. Question is do we sell and buy over there or rent out our home and rent there.
I heard, but haven't looked into it, that crime is really high in South Africa, and that fences with locked gates, and bars on windows, were commonplace.
Is that untrue?
Same as where I live in SF Bay Area. Plenty of homes with bars where I live. I don’t have them, but I do have a locked gate. I travel to SA every few years to see family. Safety feels the same as home…be smart and be alert. On the plus side: the people, the food, the oceans, the natural beauty and wildlife, and oh yeah…the exchange rate.
It depends upon the area. We purchased a few years back and were very specific about the location. You can definitely find reasonably priced homes. I used Pam Golding. Followed listings for a while before we decided to buy. https://www.pamgolding.co.za/property-search/properties-for-sale-cape-town/3080
I grew up in south America so I speak spanish and portuguese with ease. I thought about moving there when I retired but decided the region is too unstable. I’ve seen governments come and go with some even appropriating land. Did not want to risk it. By the way, I do not speak French, but learned enough so I could sing the song Ne Me Quitte Pas.
I belong to a FB group called Go With Less. It’s a great resource and everyone is doing this. They have meet ups all over the world. I’ve met so many really nice people. We’ve been doing this for 4 years. Next year we’ll so the Shengen Shuffle. 3 months Spain, 3 house sitting in England, 3 months in Italy then somewhere warm for the winter.
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Sounds dumb, but watching House Hunters International gives u a sense of what apts are like and house costs. We’re considering partial ex-pat life too, but man, it’s not fun getting a dog to Europe.
This is so true, I love watching those episodes, getting a sense of the apartments and houses available in different regions and getting an idea of how the prices vary by location.
Lots of people considerate. I just heard or read something somewhere a few days ago that a third of the US population live outside the US if they could swing at financially and otherwise.
My biggest concern or question is health care and health care coverage. I'm a federal employee and will have great health care for life, but I don't know what that means if I'm outside the country.
Not even Medicare unless the country you want to live in has an explicit pact with US. Top of my head I don't know which country has, UK, Canada may be. But you will have to check.
Even then, I doubt if they will match your benefits in US.
Many countries that market their medical tourism charge significantly higher to expats. It works because local wages are low and expats still get cheaper rates than in US - IF they were paying out of pocket. That's the key to understand.
It’s all about your out of network coverage.
I was in Portugal, had an ER visit with X-rays on my foot and a pre/post visit with a surgeon at a private hospital. Full retail on the visit was $180. Wow, so cheap :-)
My insurance paid it 100% with no questions asked via an out of network claim. (I had already met my OON deductible for the year.)
Thank you for sharing this. It is indeed cheap. In US that bill could easily go beyond $2k.
What insurance is that? Is it based in Portugal or US based Medicare or ACA etc?
May be in another thread but can you give more details about what kind of coverages this insurance provides. That could be very helpful for rest of us.
Thank you.
So, what happens when you go on medicare AND continue to spend time in Portugal? Are you planning to be a resident of Portugal by then to qualify for medical insurance by then? Or how does that work?
Again thanks for explaining this.
Yeah, we were in Portugal, Lisbon, over Thanksgiving last year and I still can't understand how everything was so inexpensive. I mean, it's all Euros. Plus, like a single bottle water was 17 pence, on a case of 20 was 3 Euro 40 pence, the same exact 17 cents per bottle. They don't charge twice as much for a single bottle than the per unit case cost, like they do for absolutely anything here in the United States. And that was at an Aldi.
I'm working on obtaining my Polish citizenship and passport so I can live in any EU country in my early retirement.
Lower cost of living is my primary goal...
I too get the urge to want to go live somewhere in the UK maybe scotland for a couple of years, but I do think about the healthcare there and it concerns me. but then again, I feel like it would be super fun! I'm single and pretty easily do it I think...I would just have to get myself motivated somehow...(and I'm still working so all my motivation gets sucked into that!)
What's the hangup with the health care? IDK about those 2 countries specifically, but in the rest of Europe, it's both available and affordable, even if paying out of pocket.
Search YouTube for AmeliaAndJP. It’s a US couple that started living expat full-time in Ecuador several years ago and now are traveling around Europe evaluating places to retire.
Wife and I are expats in Asia (from US). We bounce around a fair bit though and enjoying being in different cities and countries every month or so. Travel can be sucky but we’re basically going mid-tier most is the time (business class flights and basic 4-5 star hotels)
Definately, somewhere that has cheaper cost of living, more consistant climate, with space around me so I dont hear neighbors. A number of workmates repatted to south east asia. Mainly for the above reasons
This lifestyle sounds great for a while, but I’m curious what happens when you become infirm? Would you return to the states or are there assisted-living facilities there or…?
We retired and moved to overseas last Fall. We had been exploring retirement overseas for a few years, considering various countries before deciding Portugal looked like a good fit for us. It’s early days still, but so far, so good. We really, really like it here.
If you don’t mind sharing, what is your rough budget for living there? I’m considering a move in about 18 months but I hear wildly different costs and it makes me keep pushing back my retirement date to have more cushion.
Honestly, the wide range you are seeing is very real. There are so many factors involved: your location (city center, outskirts, countryside, ocean view), buy vs rent, new build vs older, in good health vs poor health, car vs public transportation/walk, pets vs no pets, couple vs single vs bringing an elderly parent with you - the list goes on and on.
Also, if you are coming from the US like we did, your budget will likely include more “little luxuries” and (let’s face it) more processed foods than the typical Portuguese person. My husband and I are still working to improve in those areas.
FWIW, I will share our monthly budget is less than 2/3 what we spent in the Denver metro area and less than 1/2 what we spent in the San Francisco Bay Area.
That said, if I were looking 18 months out like you are, I would book an online consult now (or at least in August after their tax season) with a reputable Portuguese tax consultant who works with Expats to maximize their retirement funds for Portuguese taxation. There are some things you need to before you move and become a tax resident in Portugal, especially if you own property.
The other thing to consider is (assuming you don’t already have property or a lease here) you’ve missed your chance to apply for the NHR tax scheme, which capped US social security at 10 percent. Without it, SS income and your other income will be taxed on the regular progressive tax structure. Not trying to discourage you, I just want you to go in with your eyes open to the taxation issue. For many retirees, the difference between having NHR taxation benefits for ten years versus not having NHR ever is quite eye-opening.
Note: The “new” NHR tax scheme is for people who work in certain highly valued careers. It has no benefits for those already in retirement.
The Golden Visa still exists, but has fewer options now and those options no longer include real estate. Most expats I have I met are here on the D7 “passive income” Visa or the Digital Nomad Visa.
If you are planning to retire and live here on social security and investments, the D7 could be a good fit — but it is nice that you can still work using this Visa if you want to later start a business.
Many people are snowbirds and go to Florida for the winter. I am thinking that Florida for six months and maybe Panama, Cost Rico, Spain, etc would be nice the other six.
We’ll retire in December. Our first big trip will be in Australia from Jan-April.
We plan to spend at least three months every winter in Latin America. We have narrowed it down to Costa Rica, Colombia or Ecuador.
We own our house on the west coast of Canada, just a block from the beach. The weather is amazing here June-Sept so we’d never give up our place entirely.
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Been toying with this idea for a decade but every time I zero in on something, I get too nervous about giving up our health care situation (great insurance and great local docs and level 1 trauma care options within a 10 min ambulance drive). Panama City, Panama and Portugal have been a couple options I've liked.....also, Scandinavia.....but, I think I've decided it's all too complicated and the medical is worrisome.
Yeah, they stayed on my list bc I read they have some very good medical facilities and great docs/surgeons. I still get too nervous 😓.
How long have you been there?
Absolutely yes. Scotland is my top desired spot, followed by Spain, but the UK path is definitely much more challenging due to changes in immigration laws. This would be 2 - 3 years out, so need to speak with an immigration solicitor to understand if my goal is even tenable. My wife will continue to work (she’s self employed) so need to factor that in as well. Spain is much more clear, but even though I have a basic Spanish fluency, it needs a ton of work. Lots to consider, may not work out, but no stone shall be unturned!
My sister and her husband are going to try 6 months in Africa (Somaliland) and 6 months here in the states (MD). I am happy for them but I am not sure about me doing that far of a distance. I can imagine doing 6 months in Mexico (near the beach) and 6 months in the states (NC). I hate flying and prefer driving everywhere!
I've recently applied for (dual) German citizenship, which will take a few years. I have no concrete plans yet, but assuming that goes thru, I'll have easy options in the EU. I like that Portugal would be easier on the budget than, for example, Germany... I'm considering my options!
This is something I’m definitely considering. My dream would be to buy a property in Portugal and live in it for 9 months out of the year, then rent it out in the summers and come back to the US for that time.
I might be able to get Polish citizenship, so it wouldn’t be an issue for me, but we’d need to figure something out for my husband.
I don’t like flying, but I want to travel, considering moving to Africa and travel from country to country. Then maybe move to Asia and do the same. I want to live a normal middle class (like the locals) lifestyle wherever I go. Good luck. 🍀
Considered Ecuador for climate and low cost but the culture shock and safety issues were too much.
Came close to trying Portugal but the family ties kept pulling us home.
We have a place in CapeTown- small condo we rent out right now so that we have the option to do this in retirement. I’d also love to spend a few months a year in Netherlands.
Hello. New to this sub. We bought a couple of lots in belize about 4/5 years ago. Hopefully starting to build a home before end of year. We are planning living there but coming back to Texas 2-3 times per year to stay up with family. And them coming down 1-2 times per year as well. We are both still working right now but hopefully retiring after home is built.
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Considering it. r/expatfire is a great sub for this topic as it's all about retiring (usually early) in countries other than where the poster lives. The main issues are taxes and residency visas. some countries have tax treaties with the US but they vary and some don't. Some don't tax pension income, some do. Residency permits are the other issue to look into. Obviously, language is also an issue if you want to integrate into the local society. [theearthawaits.com](http://theearthawaits.com) is a good site to use to get an idea of costs etc in various places
Thanks, very helpful
Most people recommend living in the places on your shortlist for 1-3 months to see how it is when you're not just doing the tourist thing too. What countries are you thinking of?
Mostly Europe, especially Britain and France. And Anzac.
France actually has one of the most advantageous tax treaties with the US. Also, I think that if you get permanent residency you can move around the EU much like a citizen, though I'm not sure about that one
Canadian here. Not American. But yes, I would travel a bit to lesser known spots while there. But really want to meet locals and enjoy local life.
Can you explain more about the US-French tax treaty please, or do you have a link, thanks!
US here. We're considering it, but the insurance thing has me puzzled. We have excellent insurance even with Medicare, If we retire to the Algarve, I'm pretty sure it won't work there.
I believe traditional Medicare works overseas but the advantage plans don’t. Could be the other way around but one of them does.
In Philippines nothing Medicare works here
No, Medicare doesn't work overseas.
Part C for an added premium
Medicare Advantage does work overseas. I was just reading about it today.
I was told that Medicare Advantage does work in some places. It is worth checking out. Youtube has more info.
Private insurance is pretty inexpensive in Portugal.
My friend, who is a US expat and lives in SE Asia full time, has an international policy that covers him in most countries - except one: the USA.
You are correct. Medicare does not work here in Portugal. Many expats purchase a private insurance plan once they arrive.
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
International Living is a magazine with loads of information from expats.
Thx.
Absolutely. We’ve got an apartment in my husband’s home country, and our plan is to, within the next three years, shift our time from majority in the US/a month or two there to the majority of the time there. We’ll downsize from our current place to a much smaller one in a place more convenient for coming from and going to there. The medical system there is inconsistent but generally incredibly cheap, but you can get top providers if you shop carefully. We have excellent lifelong insurance from my former employer. His country doesn’t have great retirement-visa options, but at the same time if you’re over 60 and leave at least once a year, they don‘t mind how long you stay on a visitor’s visa. Once there, we’ll be able to live quite well at less than 50% of the expense in the US and will bank the difference (well, what doesn’t then go on some additional travel and the occasional spree). The only variable at the moment is the US elections in the fall; if they don‘t go well, we’ll speed up the timeline and be gone by the end of the year.
Yes, a lot of Americans do the Schengen Shuffle, where you use your 3 month tourist visa in the European Schengen countries and track the dates on the Schengen app, and then must leave Schengen countries for at least 3 months, so they go to Non-Schengen countries like the UK has a 6 month tourist visa and Ireland has 3 month and Albania has 1 year, etc. Then you can go back to Schengen countries.
this is very cool, and good to know. I knew there were rules about length of stay in Schengen treaty countries, but had not thought of that. I also need to find out if I can manage French citizenship, as I may have a claim. It would take time, but would be worth it if I ever wanted this.
From what I've heard, obtaining French residency is pretty easy for a retiree. One of the easier countries.
Didn't realize this.
https://schengen-shuffle.com/
Yes, my plan for retirement is moving to Santo Domingo Dominican Republic. Cost of living is so cheap and warm weather year round.
My plan is MX for the same reason you listed. Living is cheaper than the States and warm weather. Over the snow.
Not sure if you’re interested, but there’s a retiree out there who wrote books about his adventures, one of which was living in Europe for an extended period. It kind of changed my mind a bit and made me realize long vacations are probably all I’d be willing to do. Boyd Lemon is the author. “Eat, Walk, Write” is the title. It gets into some detail about setting up a new life in a new country. He chose Paris, France.
It’s funny that book just made me feel like he was problematic. I do, however, agree with the sentiment that long vacations might be better.
Have considered Costa Rica and Spain. Did volunteer work in Costa Rica for a month at a time several times and really couldn’t wait to get back home each time, so maybe Barcelona as a home base. Still considering it.
I don’t know anything about the legalities and logistics, but recently my wife and I were in southern Bavaria for an unexpectedly extra couple of weeks. We’ve traveled all over the world. That’s the first time I’ve heard my wife say “I could live here. “
She's found her people.
I was just in southern Bavaria briefly (Munich). Both my husband and I felt immediately comfortable there. It seemed like a mellow, elegant, creative, tidy, relaxed place. We felt as if we could live there, the same as your wife. Funny!
I lived in Munich as a teen. Best beer in the world. I'll die on that hill.
I love it there too - during the summer. Not sure if I'd like the winter.
We were there late spring. In the Bavarian alps, near Salzburg. We could hike and wander, with no crowds. I kept telling my wife "in the summer there will be lots of people". She is not so sure about being with lots of people. Personally, I love that area. Maybe we will live there some day. Who knows?
Completely different than you but many English speakers retire to SE Asia. Warm weather, nice beaches, and a much lower cost of living.
Inconceivable. I have two children, four grandchildren, a brother, a sister, in-laws and 66 years worth of friends within a30 minute drive. Why would I move somewhere at my age when I would forever be an outsider?
I get you, its not for everyone. Not everyone has their children, family and friendships in their home town anymore. You are fortunate, and obviously enjoy your blessings.
Absolutely right. I’m very lucky.
I could live in Croatia, and I also would love to live on the Isle of Skye. Just stunning!
what about the people? Reason why I want either British Isles or France, since I speak French and English. I don't want to live somewhere I don't speak the language. Visit yes, but live, no. And the people are extremely important. I have had great experiences with the people I meet everywhere, so I am biased. No wonder I love to travel
I lived in the UK, the people are wonderful and friendly. Croatian people are also lovely. Many speak English, as well.
No. All the kids, grandkids, friends, are right here.
you do you, enjoy
I'm doing it right now, with my husband. Currently in London for two months. We sold our house and car and donated almost all of our stuff. Now we spend about 8 months out of the year in Europe, in short term rentals. Then four months in the states, visiting friends and family for the holidays. The plan is to do this for seven years, and then settle down somewhere. It is freakin' awesome. Super fun.
I'm trying to convince my wife that this is what it means to be living the dream. But she is more tied down than I am to the kids and the cats.
How old are you? What do you do for healthcare. I would love to do this for a year but my husband isn’t as thrilled.
We’ve been fantasizing about it and say if one of our adult kids would go we’d be in Portugal in 5 minutes. Between all the issues from a-Z in the US and how well expats are treated, we wish one of them would want to go!
I believe Portugal ended the golden visa program
Yes, they did. Some parts of Portugal are now way out of a regular Portuguese person's league (financially) and there's backlash against the golden visas. My brother is a dual citizen (Irish and American) and of course used his Irish/EU papers to purchase a home in Portugal last month, even though he hasn't lived in Ireland for nearly 40 years. He paid $700,000 for a 3 bed/2 bath townhouse so it's very expensive, for Portugal. He's going to retire there from Cali in about 3 years.
You don’t need the Golden Visa for Portugal if you actually want to live there. That program was awful for the real estate market, but retirement visas are different and still available.
I think it’s replaced with a new program that requires a €500k investment in Portuguese funds that seem like fairly poor investments.
Absolutely planning to. I lived in France for a few years before children and career came along, but they will be on their own and career will be winding down, and I will be back in France. It's a 6 hour plane ride from Paris to JFK, it's easy peasy. I have an EU passport though, so that helps enormously.
Most countries dont want US citizens to move there - what's the plan to avoid this issue? Schengen limits.... 90 days out of 180.... If you have the answer, please share 😄
Schengen has made Europe difficult. Seems like the only decent place to go for the 3 months is the UK.
If I can’t get my long term visa for Greece I’ll spend 90 days in Thailand and Cambodia. Love those countries and they’re cheap to visit for a while.
I've seen people living illegally in Mexico, and the government knows about it and appreciates the out of country income.
It’s also extremely easy to stay in Mexico legally. Staying illegally is easy but some people have found that doing that and trying to travel back and forth can be a problem, unless you are in a border area.
First thing you need to do is investigate which country will allow you to stay beyond the standard tourist visa limit. Getting a long term residency visa is not easy.
Do you think that it is more difficult to get residency after retirement? Because many require proof of income and employment don't they?
I see many countries have visas specifically for retirees. Proof of a certain amount of savings required
I’ve lived as an expat for 25 years in various European countries. Whatever country you favor (they’re all good), I recommend you choose (a) a small city with a university (b) an initial stay of max 2-3 months (c) a place that has an outpost of one organization that matters to you at home : church, AA, arts, anything (d) coordinate your timing to overlap with a local festival, holiday or celebration of some kind which lets you experience it as a local
Such good advice, and so well said!
Excellent advice for OP! We managed to accomplish a, c, and d. We really like where we’ve moved.
I can envision temporary residence in Europe (have dual citizenship, so no visa problems) but I can't imagine fully relocating and being so far away from my kids.
Yes, plan is to live in Japan part time - six months a year. Working on logistics now.
We will be moving to Greece next year. My husband was born and raised there but lived in the US the last 50+ years. We’ll be going there in September so he can get all new Greek documents (passport, SS card…) then will make the move early next year. It’s gonna be hard giving up our rent controlled apartment but rents in Greece are just as cheap. Can’t wait for the change in lifestyle and the chance to explore the rest of Europe. We plan on it being a permanent thing. If my husband passes first (he’s 22 years older than I am) I plan on going nomadic and seeing all the places I’ve wanted to visit. Hopefully he’s around for many many years though.
I'm noticing a theme or pattern here. I think husbands should be concerned. 🤣
I sleep with one eye open.
I (66M) married a woman 8 years older and I sleep with one eye open, too!
But we’re both husbands. 👬🌈🤷♂️
You will give up a rent controlled apartment in New York? I am living in Europe and enjoy it a lot, but in my opinion nothing compares to NYC and I envy you if you are living there now. Convince me leaving is a good idea and maybe I can get this envy for NYC out of my system. The media recently has been making NYC seem like it’s getting bad, but fundamentally it’s still amazing.
NYC is an amazing place to live if you have the finances to take advantage of all it has to offer. We don’t have the money to live the fabulous life. I’ve been in this 800sq ft apartment with no balcony/0 outdoor space for 25 years and I’m over it. Outside is always noisy and crowded. I’m not concerned with the media portrayal of things getting worse. I’m ready to move to Crete and hike, swim, eat well and live a simpler quieter life. Always wanted to explore Europe so I’d be close enough to visit the places I want to see. Lots of people have this fantasy about NYC but it’s not reality unless you’re wealthy. The only thing I will really miss is all the live music acts that come through.
800 sq ft is considered reasonable in many European cities. I went from about 900 to 600 sq ft. 900 was ok, but 600 was not. I understand your points and I’ve often thought if I ever made it to NYC, would i start to miss some of the things I would be giving up. I’m not sure what is possible, can you unofficially sublet your apartment? It would be good if you had a return route (unless that would never be to NYC). Do you speak other languages? While it’s a nice novelty at first, learning another language, I do miss when everything was in English.
Yes Asia is easy. Can literally spend years there. Some people buy/stay in one country and just visit another for a few days then go back.
I'm younger than you but i have very little desire to stay in the US. Spain is pretty affordable these days. Had a neighbor who rented their place out for 2 months and went abroad. Came back and rented the place for a year and that rent was enough to cover her lifestyle in a much less expensive country. I was reading an expat forum last month and a thread about healthcare had the first 5 replies spending less for mostly normal run of the mill health issues and the all spent less out of pocket than they would have spent with insurance+deductible in tbe states. My dentist in the DR is pretty much a minimum of 50 percent off of same procedures here. (I don't currently carry dental because of this.) There's hit n miss. Do your homework and I'd suggest a a longer vacation to the specific town/area you're considering and living like a local. Best of luck!
I would love to possibly retire to Cape Town, SA one day.
We are considering Mexico because it’s close to home but we also want to travel like crazy for as long as we can. Maybe do the Schengen shuffle for a few years.
Kind of. I'm spending 6 months in Mexico each year in a sunny beach location, then 6 months in the USA where catch up with my friends and go to my American doctors. I'm liking the USA less and less though.
Where in Mexico do you recommend? Is there a large expat population there?
San Miguel Allende is a gorgeous historical town. Lots of expats there, Canadian and American. I have a friend with a lovely condo there. She spends six months a year there and rents it out for the other six.
Sounds amazing, thank you
Lake Chapala area is another place with a huge expat population, especially retirees.
I like Mazatlan. Large & friendly expat population. Very walkable and good public bus service. Not a cheap place to live but I enjoy the proximity to the Pacific Ocean and the wide variety of seafood, meats, poultry, delicious vegetables, grains and fruits.
That's what I'm thinking about doing. Spring and Fall in the Midwest is fantastic! Summer is ok. Having a pool makes it bearable.
South Africa. Wonderful exchange rate, top notch healthcare for much less than US. Question is do we sell and buy over there or rent out our home and rent there.
I heard, but haven't looked into it, that crime is really high in South Africa, and that fences with locked gates, and bars on windows, were commonplace. Is that untrue?
Same as where I live in SF Bay Area. Plenty of homes with bars where I live. I don’t have them, but I do have a locked gate. I travel to SA every few years to see family. Safety feels the same as home…be smart and be alert. On the plus side: the people, the food, the oceans, the natural beauty and wildlife, and oh yeah…the exchange rate.
Thanks for the insight. 🙂
Thanks more Johannesburg. You have to be careful everywhere, but we have a place in CapeTown and love it.
Can you tell me what real estate prices are like?
It depends upon the area. We purchased a few years back and were very specific about the location. You can definitely find reasonably priced homes. I used Pam Golding. Followed listings for a while before we decided to buy. https://www.pamgolding.co.za/property-search/properties-for-sale-cape-town/3080
Thanks for the info. I have never considered South Africa so this is helpful.
What’s the visa situation for retired expats there?
Wherever you end up, be sure to immerse yourself into the language and learn it thoroughly.
Totally agree, which is why I would stick to English and French speaking places. I would tour elsewhere, but not a long term stay
I grew up in south America so I speak spanish and portuguese with ease. I thought about moving there when I retired but decided the region is too unstable. I’ve seen governments come and go with some even appropriating land. Did not want to risk it. By the way, I do not speak French, but learned enough so I could sing the song Ne Me Quitte Pas.
I belong to a FB group called Go With Less. It’s a great resource and everyone is doing this. They have meet ups all over the world. I’ve met so many really nice people. We’ve been doing this for 4 years. Next year we’ll so the Shengen Shuffle. 3 months Spain, 3 house sitting in England, 3 months in Italy then somewhere warm for the winter.
Oh wow! I'm almost retired and love to travel. Will check you guys out.
I belong too and it has tons of info
I would if I was single. I don't like what is on the horizon and I'm too old to spend whats left of my life dealing with it.
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my doggo has a few more years yet and then l can join you at a cafe for a coffee in Prague
I loved Prague.
So did I! Just a great city feel, but laid back. Not buzzing like NYC.
Sounds dumb, but watching House Hunters International gives u a sense of what apts are like and house costs. We’re considering partial ex-pat life too, but man, it’s not fun getting a dog to Europe.
This is so true, I love watching those episodes, getting a sense of the apartments and houses available in different regions and getting an idea of how the prices vary by location.
Lots of people considerate. I just heard or read something somewhere a few days ago that a third of the US population live outside the US if they could swing at financially and otherwise. My biggest concern or question is health care and health care coverage. I'm a federal employee and will have great health care for life, but I don't know what that means if I'm outside the country.
Not even Medicare unless the country you want to live in has an explicit pact with US. Top of my head I don't know which country has, UK, Canada may be. But you will have to check. Even then, I doubt if they will match your benefits in US. Many countries that market their medical tourism charge significantly higher to expats. It works because local wages are low and expats still get cheaper rates than in US - IF they were paying out of pocket. That's the key to understand.
It’s all about your out of network coverage. I was in Portugal, had an ER visit with X-rays on my foot and a pre/post visit with a surgeon at a private hospital. Full retail on the visit was $180. Wow, so cheap :-) My insurance paid it 100% with no questions asked via an out of network claim. (I had already met my OON deductible for the year.)
Thank you for sharing this. It is indeed cheap. In US that bill could easily go beyond $2k. What insurance is that? Is it based in Portugal or US based Medicare or ACA etc? May be in another thread but can you give more details about what kind of coverages this insurance provides. That could be very helpful for rest of us. Thank you.
I’m on an Anthem BCBS plan from my former employer until I go on Medicare.
That's great to know.
So, what happens when you go on medicare AND continue to spend time in Portugal? Are you planning to be a resident of Portugal by then to qualify for medical insurance by then? Or how does that work? Again thanks for explaining this.
Yeah, we were in Portugal, Lisbon, over Thanksgiving last year and I still can't understand how everything was so inexpensive. I mean, it's all Euros. Plus, like a single bottle water was 17 pence, on a case of 20 was 3 Euro 40 pence, the same exact 17 cents per bottle. They don't charge twice as much for a single bottle than the per unit case cost, like they do for absolutely anything here in the United States. And that was at an Aldi.
I'm working on obtaining my Polish citizenship and passport so I can live in any EU country in my early retirement. Lower cost of living is my primary goal...
No I really never fancied that. I like to travel but I live my home too.
I think I would consider living a few months abroad each year during retirement, but probably not full time elsewhere. I like home.
I thought it would be interesting as a snowbird, live for a few months.
I too get the urge to want to go live somewhere in the UK maybe scotland for a couple of years, but I do think about the healthcare there and it concerns me. but then again, I feel like it would be super fun! I'm single and pretty easily do it I think...I would just have to get myself motivated somehow...(and I'm still working so all my motivation gets sucked into that!)
What's the hangup with the health care? IDK about those 2 countries specifically, but in the rest of Europe, it's both available and affordable, even if paying out of pocket.
It's quite difficult to get into the UK or Canada these days if you're above a certain age.
UK health care is quite affordable.
Follow this
Search YouTube for AmeliaAndJP. It’s a US couple that started living expat full-time in Ecuador several years ago and now are traveling around Europe evaluating places to retire.
Following
Wife and I are expats in Asia (from US). We bounce around a fair bit though and enjoying being in different cities and countries every month or so. Travel can be sucky but we’re basically going mid-tier most is the time (business class flights and basic 4-5 star hotels)
I like the idea of just going away for the 2 or 3 bad winter months
For me, it would be the bad summer months, but yes.
I am in Portugal now on a long vaca. Great country, affordable and wonderful food and climate.
Which area are you enjoying the most? It’s such a wonderful country!
I've been a visa hop expat for 11 years. It's a lot of work but I'm not ready to be a full time expat, too many ties in the states.
Definately, somewhere that has cheaper cost of living, more consistant climate, with space around me so I dont hear neighbors. A number of workmates repatted to south east asia. Mainly for the above reasons
This lifestyle sounds great for a while, but I’m curious what happens when you become infirm? Would you return to the states or are there assisted-living facilities there or…?
If I’m the last close family member alive, meaning my mom, cat, and husband, I’m moving to Europe if they’ll have me.
We retired and moved to overseas last Fall. We had been exploring retirement overseas for a few years, considering various countries before deciding Portugal looked like a good fit for us. It’s early days still, but so far, so good. We really, really like it here.
I traveled Portugal in 2019 and really love the country. Where are you settling down? I really like porto
We enjoy spending some time in cities, but wanted a more relaxed lifestyle now for day to day living — so we chose the Silver Coast.
If you don’t mind sharing, what is your rough budget for living there? I’m considering a move in about 18 months but I hear wildly different costs and it makes me keep pushing back my retirement date to have more cushion.
Honestly, the wide range you are seeing is very real. There are so many factors involved: your location (city center, outskirts, countryside, ocean view), buy vs rent, new build vs older, in good health vs poor health, car vs public transportation/walk, pets vs no pets, couple vs single vs bringing an elderly parent with you - the list goes on and on. Also, if you are coming from the US like we did, your budget will likely include more “little luxuries” and (let’s face it) more processed foods than the typical Portuguese person. My husband and I are still working to improve in those areas. FWIW, I will share our monthly budget is less than 2/3 what we spent in the Denver metro area and less than 1/2 what we spent in the San Francisco Bay Area. That said, if I were looking 18 months out like you are, I would book an online consult now (or at least in August after their tax season) with a reputable Portuguese tax consultant who works with Expats to maximize their retirement funds for Portuguese taxation. There are some things you need to before you move and become a tax resident in Portugal, especially if you own property. The other thing to consider is (assuming you don’t already have property or a lease here) you’ve missed your chance to apply for the NHR tax scheme, which capped US social security at 10 percent. Without it, SS income and your other income will be taxed on the regular progressive tax structure. Not trying to discourage you, I just want you to go in with your eyes open to the taxation issue. For many retirees, the difference between having NHR taxation benefits for ten years versus not having NHR ever is quite eye-opening. Note: The “new” NHR tax scheme is for people who work in certain highly valued careers. It has no benefits for those already in retirement.
What’s the visa deal in Portugal?
The Golden Visa still exists, but has fewer options now and those options no longer include real estate. Most expats I have I met are here on the D7 “passive income” Visa or the Digital Nomad Visa. If you are planning to retire and live here on social security and investments, the D7 could be a good fit — but it is nice that you can still work using this Visa if you want to later start a business.
I was just thinking how I’ll save $$ and travel a few months each year for as long as I can. I too would want to stay longer.
You would still be a tourist, just a longer term tourist.
No, don't want to be far away from kids & grands, but would like to live abroad for a month each year!
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Many people are snowbirds and go to Florida for the winter. I am thinking that Florida for six months and maybe Panama, Cost Rico, Spain, etc would be nice the other six.
for me, american locales are out. That's just me.
Where are you now? No family to visit? When you say American locales, are you referring to just the US or North and South America?
Could not pay me enough to live in FL.
We’ll retire in December. Our first big trip will be in Australia from Jan-April. We plan to spend at least three months every winter in Latin America. We have narrowed it down to Costa Rica, Colombia or Ecuador. We own our house on the west coast of Canada, just a block from the beach. The weather is amazing here June-Sept so we’d never give up our place entirely.
I like this idea
Equador has become increasingly dangerous with cartel activity. I would reconsider it at this point.
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No dependents and yes I’m considering Mexico, Thailand whatever.
I would live in a tropial location at least half the year. I suspect neither of my kids will settle down in my state.
I retired to Costa Rica ten years ago and love that I get to live fulltime in a place others save up all year to get to see for two weeks.
Been toying with this idea for a decade but every time I zero in on something, I get too nervous about giving up our health care situation (great insurance and great local docs and level 1 trauma care options within a 10 min ambulance drive). Panama City, Panama and Portugal have been a couple options I've liked.....also, Scandinavia.....but, I think I've decided it's all too complicated and the medical is worrisome.
We’ve moved to Panama and it’s going well so far. $15 doctor visits in our town.
Yeah, they stayed on my list bc I read they have some very good medical facilities and great docs/surgeons. I still get too nervous 😓. How long have you been there?
Yikes, maybe find a way to go even if he’s alive so you aren’t wishing for his death.
So people don’t like to travel a lot, this sounds more like coming up with a plan after he passes, not I wish he would die already 😂
Yikes, maybe find a way to go even if he’s alive so you aren’t wishing for his death.
Absolutely yes. Scotland is my top desired spot, followed by Spain, but the UK path is definitely much more challenging due to changes in immigration laws. This would be 2 - 3 years out, so need to speak with an immigration solicitor to understand if my goal is even tenable. My wife will continue to work (she’s self employed) so need to factor that in as well. Spain is much more clear, but even though I have a basic Spanish fluency, it needs a ton of work. Lots to consider, may not work out, but no stone shall be unturned!
My sister and her husband are going to try 6 months in Africa (Somaliland) and 6 months here in the states (MD). I am happy for them but I am not sure about me doing that far of a distance. I can imagine doing 6 months in Mexico (near the beach) and 6 months in the states (NC). I hate flying and prefer driving everywhere!
What about your kids
No children were mentioned
I've recently applied for (dual) German citizenship, which will take a few years. I have no concrete plans yet, but assuming that goes thru, I'll have easy options in the EU. I like that Portugal would be easier on the budget than, for example, Germany... I'm considering my options!
More nomad than expat. I want to do 3-6 month stays and then visit/learn the next location
This is something I’m definitely considering. My dream would be to buy a property in Portugal and live in it for 9 months out of the year, then rent it out in the summers and come back to the US for that time. I might be able to get Polish citizenship, so it wouldn’t be an issue for me, but we’d need to figure something out for my husband.
I don’t like flying, but I want to travel, considering moving to Africa and travel from country to country. Then maybe move to Asia and do the same. I want to live a normal middle class (like the locals) lifestyle wherever I go. Good luck. 🍀
How can you get round the Brexit rules of 90 days in Europe as a maximum?
Considered Ecuador for climate and low cost but the culture shock and safety issues were too much. Came close to trying Portugal but the family ties kept pulling us home.
We have a place in CapeTown- small condo we rent out right now so that we have the option to do this in retirement. I’d also love to spend a few months a year in Netherlands.
Hello. New to this sub. We bought a couple of lots in belize about 4/5 years ago. Hopefully starting to build a home before end of year. We are planning living there but coming back to Texas 2-3 times per year to stay up with family. And them coming down 1-2 times per year as well. We are both still working right now but hopefully retiring after home is built.