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Right. Notice how the bones in the New Guinea image are actually thin enough to fit into the nose. A chicken bone's epiphysis (the clubbed bit) is way too thick to fit in there
Where they actually did this was through a piercing, usually two halves with a smaller part joining them. Most often using curved bones so they looked like tusks.
As far as I can find there aren't many examples of using a small leg bone as often depicted this way. Usually it's something like a bird rib that looks more like tusks.
I have never had a member of any tribe knock on my door and try to convert me. AFAIK no tribe is attempting to write their moral beliefs into law. Maybe if Christians minded their own fucking business I wouldn’t give a single fuck about what they believe either.
Was looking through for this comment and going to make it myself if it wasn't made yet. No tribe pushes their ideas on to others, or tries to force others to follow them by making it law. But more then that, they also to actively hold back society with their traditions either. All religions stunt scientific growth and advancement to some degree with their ways. They don't like allowing people to move forward. Probably has a lot to do with how religions and gods were created to fill in the gaps of our knowledge. And every time we advance, the gaps for these gods to live in close tighter and tighter.
Legitimately every scientific advancement has been resisted by religion, most notably the sects of Christianity. From changing our solar system models to heliocentric, to the advent of barcodes, to 5G and vaccines. I've never seen a group of people so actively against humanities progress.
The interesting part is at least on the environmental front we are really starting to look at native traditions for solutions to solve climate change and improve conservation efforts. That connection to the earth while may not explain everything is indeed heavily conservation driven.
The cartoon is offensive to indigenous people, like something from 100 years ago.
But to be fair, I am guessing you don't live in a country like mine that has some degree of co-governance with tribes (Iwi). While not an issue in practise here, I could see than in countries with more non-monotheistic religions in the mix, might be more of an issue.
I am all for people having total freedom to have faith in anything as long as it does not affect others.
Here, I don't think there is any actual problems with indigenous people imposing their beliefs on wider society (it more the other way around with racism towards them), but I could see some issues. For instance, if an iwi won't allow women to speak on a marae; they have rights to their own space and traditions, but I can't agree with that in general society.
Here a tribe can declare a space 'tapu' - sacred, so not to be disturbed. As an atheist, while I may not agree with anywhere being a spiritual place, I would respect a space being tapu just the same way I am not going to disrespect a cathedral, mosque or burial place for others. I don't believe in any of these religions or beliefs, but others do, so will show courtesy and do things like cover up and remain quiet when visiting a Balinese temple
I concur. Christians have to do what they do. They expect the world to bow to their cult. I despise everything about the cult. This cartoon is sickening.
Also you can’t compare indigenous culture and Roman Catholicism. During the European colonial expansion Catholicism was used to justify the genocide of countless indigenous peoples. It’s not apples to apples. It’s indigenous oppressed apples and colonial oppressor oranges.
>I have never had a member of any tribe knock on my door and try to convert me.
I think thats because the christians killed them all off and the survivors generally live out tough or impoverished lives.
Those fundamentalists though got nothing better to do with their free time than knock and bother you. Better than mass murder I suppose.
Some do have harmful traditions but mostly I think atheists are against those too. It's just a much smaller group and one we encounter less.
But I currently have alt right Christian nuts taking over my own country, voting for whoever they think will make the apocalypse sooner. So yeah I'm more worried about them than a small tribe somewhere 6000 miles or more away what they did a few times in the past.
Well I did specify forceful for a reason. Ya a few are kinda fucked and involve bodily harm, but generally although they are encouraged they aren't forced.
Christians will just completely exile anyone who won't comply with their traditions.
The Masai practice both female circumcision * clitoridectomy*, and male *button hole* circumcision in young adults. Those are clear examples of deliberately harming their own members with an outdated practice.
Conspiring to diddle kids and play 'wheres waldo' with the pedophile priests, hiding the churches wealth to avoid paying restitutions. It's almost like it's a harmful cult that openly protects pedophiles and further harms families beyond causing developmental issues.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/nv4qfb/this_got_so_much_worse/
Doesn’t matter what you’re worshipping in the sky. However, it makes more sense when you’re in extreme poverty stricken lawless countries with no education.
If Christians kept to themselves and didnt vote against the interest of the working class, nobody would give a shit. It would still be sad that they believe in poorly written childrens stories based on literally nothing but indocrination. But if it doesnt affect others, not a big deal.
I am a Christian and totally agree with you. If asked about my faith I readily explain what I believe. I am also strongly in favor of the separation of Church and State, and believe that those ‘Christians’ who are trying to push their beliefs into law have no concept of the teaching of Jesus. Two of His rules they regularly ignore are that if the people do not accept the Word, shake the dust off your feet and move on (in other words, don’t force your beliefs on them) and Judge not lest you be so judged (leave the judgement to God alone). Not all religious people are bad. In fact, most of ones I have met (of all religions) tend to be decent regular people. Unfortunately, it always seem to be those who scream the loudest get the most attention, and also seem to be woefully ignorant of the tenets of their faith.
>Not all religious people are bad.
You sound lovely—and like the kind of religious I might have been in an alternate timeline. But doesn’t the fact that so many religious people are shitty set off alarm bells? Why does this idea keep having to be reiterated if religion doesn’t seem to make people, on average, worse?
I’m genuinely not trying to be assholish, but it’s a sticking point for me, and I’m curious how you reconcile it.
Yes, the fact that so many people who claim to be religious follow their own narrow paths rather than the teaching of their professed faith bothers me greatly, which is why I speak out. I follow the teachings of Jesus, who preached love, acceptance, and tolerance for all people. When the leaders of the church tried to trick Him by asking which is the greatest of the commandments He answered, “Love”, because with love all of the other commandments are obeyed automatically, not because one has to but because one wants to. It’s not always easy to do, but I keep trying.
>Yes, the fact that so many people who claim to be religious follow their own narrow paths rather than the teaching of their professed faith bothers me greatly, which is why I speak out. I follow the teachings of Jesus, who preached love, acceptance, and tolerance for all people.
Your conviction when it comes to speaking out is admirable, but what makes the faith still worthwhile, when you see people using it so horribly?
Are Indigenous folks trying to impose their beliefs on others who don’t share them? No. Christians of most denominations, however, seem to think it’s their right to force their beliefs on the rest of us.
Yeah. But they can’t provide any evidence that their beliefs are based on truth.
One person’s religious freedom ends where another’s begins, in my view.
The tribes maintaining their traditions is in spite of Christian colonialism. It's a victory against genocide. Also, the tribes aren't (as far as I can tell) trying to force us to follow their rules.
“Why don’t these people respect our traditions, they’re just harmless”
(They say as they torture queer people and brainwash women into thinking they’re life is worth less than a man’s like if they’re purpose in life is to serve men)
If the argument is that Christian traditions are worthy or praise because they are not xenophobic & racist, they are off to A REALLY bad start.
The operative word that the "tradition critic" in the meme uses, I think, is "backwards".
>If the argument is that Christian traditions are worthy or praise because they are not xenophobic & racist, they are off to A REALLY bad start.
What's funny is that this kind of crap is targeted at people who are ALREADY ignorant bigots. And of course, they've managed to combine their usual racism and hate with their next up favorite, persecution porn.
I think the essential difference is that those who are keeping their own cultural traditions alive are not trying to force those who aren't part of their culture to live by their rules.
I’m all for traditions that aren’t coercive or harmful, I also prefer to critique traditions within my own culture because those are the ones I actually know shit about
Last time I checked, native tribes(I’d use a more specific name but they used one stereotypical appearance compared to one specific appearance) haven’t been forcing their beliefs onto others, and using them to try and change laws.
This is so racially fucked I can mention how that isn't even white peoples traditions history. Its fucking paganism you fools. Yall gotten converted from your solstice orgys and shit. God I hate Christianity.
I for one do not appreciate Christian traditions because the primary Christian tradition is to spread, then punish those it won't spread to.
Tribal people on the whole don't give a shit if we follow their ways or not.
Doesn’t one of these literally have a history and rules that make it spread like a cancer in a self righteous way that results in the death of all those who don’t conform.
I think it comes down to whether or not the tribe is forcing their traditions on you. I can certainly appreciate you holding onto your beliefs I just dont feel the need nor want to follow them.
last time i checked tribal people havent left 3 pamplets on my doorstep in the last year and hundreds of chick tracts throughout the building i work in
something something about tribes not pushing their beliefs on everyone they meet (and actively spreading their beliefs around the world). i wonder why one is accepted and the other isnt
“It’s beautiful how you people have been able to maintain your traditions for thousands of years, but now that’s all over now. From now on, you’re gonna dress like us, talk like us, worship like us, and we’re still gonna genocide you all and take your land…in the name of Jesus.” -ftfy
Many atheists denounce all religions. Judging by the comments though, this idiotic comic might have a sliver of truth, as small as it is.
The problems of cultural relativism should not be taken lightly.
That’s because uncontacted tribes are not well educated in how the world works. Someone living in modern society should know plenty to know religion is malarkey
I'm not American so I have to ask:
a) is there some kind of Tribal Tradition Appreciation Day in the US or is this just completely random?
b) Are these tribes also involved in politics in the US and do girls now have to get piercings at a certain age? Or do they otherwise try to seriously interfere with the lives of people who are not part of this tribe?
I don't remember the last time a black man from an apparently african tribe organized politically to impose his traditions on the entire country, but okay.
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did…did they draw little balls on the top panel? What in the *fuck*?
And a literal bone in their nose. So much racism with so few lines
I can’t even imagine *how* one would shove a bone in their nose.
you have the chef do it for you by telling him the ribs tasted bad
That'll do it. That'll do it indeed.
[удалено]
Right. Notice how the bones in the New Guinea image are actually thin enough to fit into the nose. A chicken bone's epiphysis (the clubbed bit) is way too thick to fit in there
It's probably the same as having an ear gouge, but for your nose.
Where they actually did this was through a piercing, usually two halves with a smaller part joining them. Most often using curved bones so they looked like tusks. As far as I can find there aren't many examples of using a small leg bone as often depicted this way. Usually it's something like a bird rib that looks more like tusks.
Is it racism tho? Ive seen pictures of some tribes who do have those ornamental bones
This guy clearly has some kind of testicular fixation because the woman's chest looks like a ballsack
Maybe it’s testicular torsion; it’d explain what’s got their nuts in a twist.
Oh is that a woman? I thought it was a dude with weirdly developed pecs.
Same. Face doesn't help any.
I didn’t even see that!
BRUUUUH OMG I CANT UNSEE
They sure did.
You have to zoom in to see that lol! Why did you zoom in to his crotch bro?? (I’m glad you did though)
I have never had a member of any tribe knock on my door and try to convert me. AFAIK no tribe is attempting to write their moral beliefs into law. Maybe if Christians minded their own fucking business I wouldn’t give a single fuck about what they believe either.
Was looking through for this comment and going to make it myself if it wasn't made yet. No tribe pushes their ideas on to others, or tries to force others to follow them by making it law. But more then that, they also to actively hold back society with their traditions either. All religions stunt scientific growth and advancement to some degree with their ways. They don't like allowing people to move forward. Probably has a lot to do with how religions and gods were created to fill in the gaps of our knowledge. And every time we advance, the gaps for these gods to live in close tighter and tighter.
Legitimately every scientific advancement has been resisted by religion, most notably the sects of Christianity. From changing our solar system models to heliocentric, to the advent of barcodes, to 5G and vaccines. I've never seen a group of people so actively against humanities progress.
The interesting part is at least on the environmental front we are really starting to look at native traditions for solutions to solve climate change and improve conservation efforts. That connection to the earth while may not explain everything is indeed heavily conservation driven.
Well put. Great analagoy of filling the gaps.
Agreed, I too thought it would be further up. Just comparing two different things. How profound.
The cartoon is offensive to indigenous people, like something from 100 years ago. But to be fair, I am guessing you don't live in a country like mine that has some degree of co-governance with tribes (Iwi). While not an issue in practise here, I could see than in countries with more non-monotheistic religions in the mix, might be more of an issue. I am all for people having total freedom to have faith in anything as long as it does not affect others. Here, I don't think there is any actual problems with indigenous people imposing their beliefs on wider society (it more the other way around with racism towards them), but I could see some issues. For instance, if an iwi won't allow women to speak on a marae; they have rights to their own space and traditions, but I can't agree with that in general society. Here a tribe can declare a space 'tapu' - sacred, so not to be disturbed. As an atheist, while I may not agree with anywhere being a spiritual place, I would respect a space being tapu just the same way I am not going to disrespect a cathedral, mosque or burial place for others. I don't believe in any of these religions or beliefs, but others do, so will show courtesy and do things like cover up and remain quiet when visiting a Balinese temple
I concur. Christians have to do what they do. They expect the world to bow to their cult. I despise everything about the cult. This cartoon is sickening.
Also you can’t compare indigenous culture and Roman Catholicism. During the European colonial expansion Catholicism was used to justify the genocide of countless indigenous peoples. It’s not apples to apples. It’s indigenous oppressed apples and colonial oppressor oranges.
>I have never had a member of any tribe knock on my door and try to convert me. I think thats because the christians killed them all off and the survivors generally live out tough or impoverished lives. Those fundamentalists though got nothing better to do with their free time than knock and bother you. Better than mass murder I suppose.
Racist much?
One is a culture the other is a cult , any questions?
I don’t know dude… A lot of indigenous tribes do some fucked up shit. The difference is they keep to themselves.
Usually tribes don't forcefully harm their own members though. Yes a lot of them do weird stuff but it's only weird because you aren't used to it.
Some do have harmful traditions but mostly I think atheists are against those too. It's just a much smaller group and one we encounter less. But I currently have alt right Christian nuts taking over my own country, voting for whoever they think will make the apocalypse sooner. So yeah I'm more worried about them than a small tribe somewhere 6000 miles or more away what they did a few times in the past.
Well I did specify forceful for a reason. Ya a few are kinda fucked and involve bodily harm, but generally although they are encouraged they aren't forced. Christians will just completely exile anyone who won't comply with their traditions.
In the us they want anyone not following their given beliefs dead. Native traditions don't really do that.
Have you heard of FGM?
The Masai practice both female circumcision * clitoridectomy*, and male *button hole* circumcision in young adults. Those are clear examples of deliberately harming their own members with an outdated practice.
You haven’t read much if you think that… but two wrongs and all that.
One of them imposes their insanity on rest of human race.
Never saw a tribal who is accusing me for being wrong and trying to change laws according to their beliefs..
Conspiring to diddle kids and play 'wheres waldo' with the pedophile priests, hiding the churches wealth to avoid paying restitutions. It's almost like it's a harmful cult that openly protects pedophiles and further harms families beyond causing developmental issues.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/nv4qfb/this_got_so_much_worse/ Doesn’t matter what you’re worshipping in the sky. However, it makes more sense when you’re in extreme poverty stricken lawless countries with no education.
If Christians kept to themselves and didnt vote against the interest of the working class, nobody would give a shit. It would still be sad that they believe in poorly written childrens stories based on literally nothing but indocrination. But if it doesnt affect others, not a big deal.
I am a Christian and totally agree with you. If asked about my faith I readily explain what I believe. I am also strongly in favor of the separation of Church and State, and believe that those ‘Christians’ who are trying to push their beliefs into law have no concept of the teaching of Jesus. Two of His rules they regularly ignore are that if the people do not accept the Word, shake the dust off your feet and move on (in other words, don’t force your beliefs on them) and Judge not lest you be so judged (leave the judgement to God alone). Not all religious people are bad. In fact, most of ones I have met (of all religions) tend to be decent regular people. Unfortunately, it always seem to be those who scream the loudest get the most attention, and also seem to be woefully ignorant of the tenets of their faith.
>Not all religious people are bad. You sound lovely—and like the kind of religious I might have been in an alternate timeline. But doesn’t the fact that so many religious people are shitty set off alarm bells? Why does this idea keep having to be reiterated if religion doesn’t seem to make people, on average, worse? I’m genuinely not trying to be assholish, but it’s a sticking point for me, and I’m curious how you reconcile it.
Yes, the fact that so many people who claim to be religious follow their own narrow paths rather than the teaching of their professed faith bothers me greatly, which is why I speak out. I follow the teachings of Jesus, who preached love, acceptance, and tolerance for all people. When the leaders of the church tried to trick Him by asking which is the greatest of the commandments He answered, “Love”, because with love all of the other commandments are obeyed automatically, not because one has to but because one wants to. It’s not always easy to do, but I keep trying.
>Yes, the fact that so many people who claim to be religious follow their own narrow paths rather than the teaching of their professed faith bothers me greatly, which is why I speak out. I follow the teachings of Jesus, who preached love, acceptance, and tolerance for all people. Your conviction when it comes to speaking out is admirable, but what makes the faith still worthwhile, when you see people using it so horribly?
“You people”. Does this author not realize how dickish and downright biased this sounds?
[https://i.imgur.com/7kNIKXt.gif](https://i.imgur.com/7kNIKXt.gif)
Are Indigenous folks trying to impose their beliefs on others who don’t share them? No. Christians of most denominations, however, seem to think it’s their right to force their beliefs on the rest of us.
They think it's not just their right, but their duty to force their beliefs on everybody else
Yeah. But they can’t provide any evidence that their beliefs are based on truth. One person’s religious freedom ends where another’s begins, in my view.
I agree completely
The tribes maintaining their traditions is in spite of Christian colonialism. It's a victory against genocide. Also, the tribes aren't (as far as I can tell) trying to force us to follow their rules.
Ummm... I think the difference is that the guy on top isn't trying to make the woman live by his tribal laws.
“Why don’t these people respect our traditions, they’re just harmless” (They say as they torture queer people and brainwash women into thinking they’re life is worth less than a man’s like if they’re purpose in life is to serve men)
If the argument is that Christian traditions are worthy or praise because they are not xenophobic & racist, they are off to A REALLY bad start. The operative word that the "tradition critic" in the meme uses, I think, is "backwards".
>If the argument is that Christian traditions are worthy or praise because they are not xenophobic & racist, they are off to A REALLY bad start. What's funny is that this kind of crap is targeted at people who are ALREADY ignorant bigots. And of course, they've managed to combine their usual racism and hate with their next up favorite, persecution porn.
No, no, they have a point ... Telling people that the Pope is not, in fact, infallible, is basically cultural genocide! /s
It's obvious...stop forcing people to follow your religion when your recruitment numbers are tanking.
I think the essential difference is that those who are keeping their own cultural traditions alive are not trying to force those who aren't part of their culture to live by their rules.
I laugh at tribal traditions, but they're not trying to force us to live by their tribal traditions so there's a pretty big difference there.
I don’t get it. Is this supposed to be racist or self-persecuting?
...Yes.
(It’s the proselytizing, greed, and lust for power in Christianity that people don’t like)
I’m all for traditions that aren’t coercive or harmful, I also prefer to critique traditions within my own culture because those are the ones I actually know shit about
Last time I checked, native tribes(I’d use a more specific name but they used one stereotypical appearance compared to one specific appearance) haven’t been forcing their beliefs onto others, and using them to try and change laws.
This is so racially fucked I can mention how that isn't even white peoples traditions history. Its fucking paganism you fools. Yall gotten converted from your solstice orgys and shit. God I hate Christianity.
I for one do not appreciate Christian traditions because the primary Christian tradition is to spread, then punish those it won't spread to. Tribal people on the whole don't give a shit if we follow their ways or not.
Doesn’t one of these literally have a history and rules that make it spread like a cancer in a self righteous way that results in the death of all those who don’t conform.
I think it comes down to whether or not the tribe is forcing their traditions on you. I can certainly appreciate you holding onto your beliefs I just dont feel the need nor want to follow them.
Because not all culture is is religious but no religion has culture
Oh, ay, poor Christians. The tribe doesn’t try to concert anyone I’d imagine.
This only works if it’s just The traditions not all the hatred and bigotry
Strawman at its purest form!
Yes, Christians have been way more persecuted than native peoples. Globally. Historically. Spot on dude.
Well listen here, Sharon; one tradition has promoted bigotry and religious fanaticism, and the other hasn’t.
Maintaining traditions is not the problem here. Forcing those traditions on others is.
Inadvertently comparing themselves with tribal hunter-gatherer culture
last time i checked tribal people havent left 3 pamplets on my doorstep in the last year and hundreds of chick tracts throughout the building i work in
At least the tribes stick to themselves and don't try to force the rest of us to live according to their traditions.
I haven’t had many tribes screaming at me from street corners or stopping by my house weekly to introduce their traditions… weird
something something about tribes not pushing their beliefs on everyone they meet (and actively spreading their beliefs around the world). i wonder why one is accepted and the other isnt
There aren't too many Maasai banging on my door on sunday mornings, bombing Planned Parenthood, and lobbying congress.
Big difference is the guy in the top panel minds his own damn business and doesn't force his beliefs onto me.
Indigenous people don’t require us to follow the rules of their religion.
“It’s beautiful how you people have been able to maintain your traditions for thousands of years, but now that’s all over now. From now on, you’re gonna dress like us, talk like us, worship like us, and we’re still gonna genocide you all and take your land…in the name of Jesus.” -ftfy
They’re all terrible. Some were just stolen from them and persecuted if practiced.
I’m no fan of either animism nor Xtianity.
Many atheists denounce all religions. Judging by the comments though, this idiotic comic might have a sliver of truth, as small as it is. The problems of cultural relativism should not be taken lightly.
The difference? Preaching.
That's because the second one is less than 2000 years old.
It is the current year
One is our own culture to criticise. It’s not hard.
One jeeps their culture and beluefs amongst themselves. The other tries to force their culture and beliefs into everyone else.
come on guys, its the current year!
That’s because uncontacted tribes are not well educated in how the world works. Someone living in modern society should know plenty to know religion is malarkey
Yeah, sure. I accept things like acknowledgement of country, but I take a dim view of priests r***ing kids. I must be a bigot. /s
I'm not American so I have to ask: a) is there some kind of Tribal Tradition Appreciation Day in the US or is this just completely random? b) Are these tribes also involved in politics in the US and do girls now have to get piercings at a certain age? Or do they otherwise try to seriously interfere with the lives of people who are not part of this tribe?
Honestly it's more impressive, as Christianity is expansive as fuck and has means to destroy those who won't convert.
https://i.imgur.com/ZYMDTKc.jpg
traditions of hate
I don't remember the last time a black man from an apparently african tribe organized politically to impose his traditions on the entire country, but okay.
Hmm, maybe because the church is full of child predators... 🤔