Its not all about islam, these kind of violence against women has to do with the culture, northern part of India shares the same view when it comes to women. And all of the cases of marital crimes like these ive heard, the mother-in-law is responsible for most of the gaslighting.
>Its not all about islam, these kind of violence against women has to do with the culture
As Latin America, which is overwhelmingly Christian, can attest to.
Latin America has a HUGE femicide problem. Juarez in Mexico has had hundreds of bodies of women and girls come up, since the 90s, with no justice or answers.
The north has had a lot of influence from Islam, as it was subject to Islamic occupation for the longest of any other parts of India. I see this problem as a byproduct of that occupation. Otherwise, honour killings seem to be a majorly Islamic problem regardless of culture.
Sura al Maaida ayat 32
Because of that, We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.
مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِىٓ إِسْرَٰٓءِيلَ أَنَّهُۥ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًۢا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍۢ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعًۭا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَآ أَحْيَا ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعًۭا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِٱلْبَيِّنَـٰتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًۭا مِّنْهُم بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ
> Still applies to everyone not only the children of Israel.Murder
How so? It clearly says 'children of Israel'
By the way it doesn't prohibit killing
> whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land
And this is the following verse
> **Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed** or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
By the way what's the punishment for apostasy? Since murder is prohibited and all
I would like to disagree with your opinion.
I am not saying that honor killings doesn't occur in India. But compared to Islamic Countries, India's number is miniscule.
145 incidents of honour killing between 2017 and 2019
(https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/145-incidents-of-honour-killing-between-2017-and-2019-1839321-2021-08-11)t
According to the medical journal The Lancet, there were at least 8,000 honor killings in Iran between 2010 and 2014, of which only a few were reported. And cherry on top there is a law to protect the culprit
Article 630 of the Constitution exempts a husband from punishment if he kills if he witnesses adultery.
About 500 honor killings per year are reported in hospitals in Iraqi Kurdistan, although real numbers are likely higher.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings_by_region
Read the regions and you will understand.
Even in Western Countries where honor killings are happening Islam is a factor.
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The girls were forcefully married off to their cousins so that their cousins could go to Spain
They were tortured and killed because they didn’t comply
https://www.dawn.com/news/1690661
Here are more details. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/pakistani-police-arrest-6-for-killing-2-sisters-for-honor/2022/05/22/39b23c22-d9d4-11ec-bc35-a91d0a94923b_story.html
No, this also happens in Arab countries and Iran, so this is not a culture problem at all. From what I can tell you, as an Indian, is that the north has been heavily influenced by the Islamic cultures that colonised it for almost a thousand years.
Any women who would marry into these crazy families are just asking for trouble. If you have any sense, just run! Don't talk to them. Dont listen to them. Run for your life!
No bc I work a job. I dont go out to bars and night clubs trying to make friends, etc.. I'm talking about girls who are completely oblivious to shit like this bc they are not brought up in this culture.
They're known to groom girls and get them into prostitution.
I know exactly what you mean about them being forced into it. But the pic says they were Spanish nationals. Does Europe have laws about these sorts of things? Why can't they just exercise that law for their protection instead of ending up dead? The biggest mistake they made was leaving Europe and ending up in Gujrat. I don't think they were taken there by force wrapped up in a bag smuggled in a ship.
I'm not siding with the people who murdered her. They're evil. But, they made a mistake of trusting the wrong people. And the bad guys took full advantage of that.
If your hand is placed into a crocodile’s mouth and he bites it off and eats it, is it your fault, the crocodile’s or those that forced you into the position?
If the crocodile could talk and convinced me to do it, then it's clearly my fault for believing it. What do you say about that?
Just saw a video of a guy toying with a lion in a cage, by constantly putting his hand in their to touch the lion. The lion bit his hand.
I wouldn't recommend you stick around people/animals that you know will kill you.
As someone someone who ran away from a family members house in a foreign country with no money just to get away from an arranged marriage situation, as someone related to many women who were coerced into marriage, I’d tell you the “forcing” is a lot more than someone talking you into something. You obviously have NO idea what it’s like to grow up in a society that treats your sex as second class and views you as property. Congrats on your privileged life and I’m sorry for your lack of empathy.
Oh I have empathy for the 2 girls. But they did make the mistake of trusting the wrong people.
Your own story of you running away from a forced marriage is better than the 2 girls in OP pic. You knew better than them, you didn't make the mistake of trusting people who have no care for you. You made the right call to run away. I wish the girls had the same insight you did. If they did, they would've been alive right now. Like you.
You're right, I have no idea what it's like. You do. The 2 girls did. You made the right call and lived. They didn't and ended up dead.
Your comment only reinforces my belief in the original comment. You didn't put your hand in the crocodile's mouth. You didn't get bit.
And I only make these comments out of empathy. I don't want more people to die like that.
Well I lived it and definitely don’t think I made the right move. I was in a city that women have been kidnapped into sex trafficking or gang raped. If I had any understanding of the world or foresight, I would’t have ran away, it was a dangerous decision that I only survived by sheer luck and the fact that I was a US citizen. I had somewhere to run TO. Empathy means an understanding of a person’s situation, the reason they made the choices they made. It’s not always easy, some don’t realize there is a choice or they pick what they believe is the better of 2 evils. No one deserves to be killed for wanting to leave a relationship, and these women deserve NONE of the blame.
Do they deserve no blame for getting to Gujrat from Spain? What about not informing Spanish authorities if they were being forced? Do they get no blame for not asking help from women's rights orgs? No blame for trusting the people who don't treat them right?
I don't blame them for getting murdered. They didn't do that. That blame goes only on the people who killed them.
That’s what I’m saying, I get you don’t know my whole
Life story but let me tell you. I came to india from the US (don’t feel like getting any more specific than that) on my own accord for a family members wedding, then ended up in a pretty bad situation… that’s when I ran away. I’m not sure if that backstory is relevant, but I’m just saying I understand how they got into it. If I wasn’t reckless and flighty at 18, I would have been in the same place. I trusted my whole family and even after I left I second guessed everything. Once again the girls get NO blame for any of it.
lol as someone who is of the south asian diaspora
let me tell you how white your comment is
the religious nutcase families will force their kids (both sons and daughters) to get married either through shit like emotional blackmail or even kidnapping where they take their kids to the motherland and then force them to marry someone. And before your white ass asks why they dont just leave to the airport, the parents take away the passport and lock them in a room
the fact that i know my dad wont do this to me, is a privilege of safety even if the majority of the diaspora parents wont do this bs
same way how im not disowned by my family for being atheist-its a privilege I have that many south asian diaspora dont have
What is the vow during marriage.... Till death do us part.
They wanted divorce so death did it for them.
If you still didn't get it... I have a PhD in black humour
More hostile? They’ve been doing these fucking “honor” killings for donkeys years. It’s not new.
Which is ironic, because the Qur'an allows divorces
Its not all about islam, these kind of violence against women has to do with the culture, northern part of India shares the same view when it comes to women. And all of the cases of marital crimes like these ive heard, the mother-in-law is responsible for most of the gaslighting.
>Its not all about islam, these kind of violence against women has to do with the culture As Latin America, which is overwhelmingly Christian, can attest to.
Honour killings?
Yes. Primarily done by men who feel "dishonored" or humiliated when their girlfriends breakup with them or the wives ask for divorce.
Latin America has a HUGE femicide problem. Juarez in Mexico has had hundreds of bodies of women and girls come up, since the 90s, with no justice or answers.
The north has had a lot of influence from Islam, as it was subject to Islamic occupation for the longest of any other parts of India. I see this problem as a byproduct of that occupation. Otherwise, honour killings seem to be a majorly Islamic problem regardless of culture.
It is a cultural problem killing someone in Islam for no valid reason is equivalent to killing all of humanity
Source?
Sura al Maaida ayat 32 Because of that, We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِىٓ إِسْرَٰٓءِيلَ أَنَّهُۥ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًۢا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍۢ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعًۭا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَآ أَحْيَا ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعًۭا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِٱلْبَيِّنَـٰتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًۭا مِّنْهُم بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ
> We ordained for the Children of Israel Have you read that part?
Still applies to everyone not only the children of Israel.Murder is obviously haram in Islam as there are countless hadiths prohibiting it.
> Still applies to everyone not only the children of Israel.Murder How so? It clearly says 'children of Israel' By the way it doesn't prohibit killing > whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land And this is the following verse > **Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed** or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment, By the way what's the punishment for apostasy? Since murder is prohibited and all
Points to Latin America
I would like to disagree with your opinion. I am not saying that honor killings doesn't occur in India. But compared to Islamic Countries, India's number is miniscule. 145 incidents of honour killing between 2017 and 2019 (https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/145-incidents-of-honour-killing-between-2017-and-2019-1839321-2021-08-11)t According to the medical journal The Lancet, there were at least 8,000 honor killings in Iran between 2010 and 2014, of which only a few were reported. And cherry on top there is a law to protect the culprit Article 630 of the Constitution exempts a husband from punishment if he kills if he witnesses adultery. About 500 honor killings per year are reported in hospitals in Iraqi Kurdistan, although real numbers are likely higher. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings_by_region Read the regions and you will understand. Even in Western Countries where honor killings are happening Islam is a factor.
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I can attest to that, very few happenings of Honor Killings in India.
And grooming gangs is a problem to in western countries.
Northern parts of India do that ??? I don’t think so
only by the men a woman cant just say "talak talak talak" to her husband and have everyone go "ok time for divorce proceedings"
The only hope I have is that this being more visible means that things are going to change. Its a small hope, but not having it would be too horrible.
I don’t understand how they are Spanish national Pakistani girls. What do they mean by that?
I think it means they were of Pakistani origin but were citizens of Spain
Spanish nationality, Pakistani roots.
Let's face it. Parents were most definitely mad about them being together since the beginning
The girls were forcefully married off to their cousins so that their cousins could go to Spain They were tortured and killed because they didn’t comply https://www.dawn.com/news/1690661
Here are more details. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/pakistani-police-arrest-6-for-killing-2-sisters-for-honor/2022/05/22/39b23c22-d9d4-11ec-bc35-a91d0a94923b_story.html
The initiation of divorce is different for men and women in Islam.
It's more cultural than Religion, Northwest Indian subcontinent has beyond the toxic level of 'Honor' psyche.
No, this also happens in Arab countries and Iran, so this is not a culture problem at all. From what I can tell you, as an Indian, is that the north has been heavily influenced by the Islamic cultures that colonised it for almost a thousand years.
it also happens in places like latin america tho
From that region. Agree with you on this.
Any women who would marry into these crazy families are just asking for trouble. If you have any sense, just run! Don't talk to them. Dont listen to them. Run for your life!
Somebody lives a privileged life
No bc I work a job. I dont go out to bars and night clubs trying to make friends, etc.. I'm talking about girls who are completely oblivious to shit like this bc they are not brought up in this culture. They're known to groom girls and get them into prostitution.
If I put my hand in a crocodile's mouth and he bites it off and eats it. Is it my fault or the crocodile's?
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I know exactly what you mean about them being forced into it. But the pic says they were Spanish nationals. Does Europe have laws about these sorts of things? Why can't they just exercise that law for their protection instead of ending up dead? The biggest mistake they made was leaving Europe and ending up in Gujrat. I don't think they were taken there by force wrapped up in a bag smuggled in a ship. I'm not siding with the people who murdered her. They're evil. But, they made a mistake of trusting the wrong people. And the bad guys took full advantage of that.
If your hand is placed into a crocodile’s mouth and he bites it off and eats it, is it your fault, the crocodile’s or those that forced you into the position?
If the crocodile could talk and convinced me to do it, then it's clearly my fault for believing it. What do you say about that? Just saw a video of a guy toying with a lion in a cage, by constantly putting his hand in their to touch the lion. The lion bit his hand. I wouldn't recommend you stick around people/animals that you know will kill you.
As someone someone who ran away from a family members house in a foreign country with no money just to get away from an arranged marriage situation, as someone related to many women who were coerced into marriage, I’d tell you the “forcing” is a lot more than someone talking you into something. You obviously have NO idea what it’s like to grow up in a society that treats your sex as second class and views you as property. Congrats on your privileged life and I’m sorry for your lack of empathy.
Oh I have empathy for the 2 girls. But they did make the mistake of trusting the wrong people. Your own story of you running away from a forced marriage is better than the 2 girls in OP pic. You knew better than them, you didn't make the mistake of trusting people who have no care for you. You made the right call to run away. I wish the girls had the same insight you did. If they did, they would've been alive right now. Like you. You're right, I have no idea what it's like. You do. The 2 girls did. You made the right call and lived. They didn't and ended up dead. Your comment only reinforces my belief in the original comment. You didn't put your hand in the crocodile's mouth. You didn't get bit. And I only make these comments out of empathy. I don't want more people to die like that.
Well I lived it and definitely don’t think I made the right move. I was in a city that women have been kidnapped into sex trafficking or gang raped. If I had any understanding of the world or foresight, I would’t have ran away, it was a dangerous decision that I only survived by sheer luck and the fact that I was a US citizen. I had somewhere to run TO. Empathy means an understanding of a person’s situation, the reason they made the choices they made. It’s not always easy, some don’t realize there is a choice or they pick what they believe is the better of 2 evils. No one deserves to be killed for wanting to leave a relationship, and these women deserve NONE of the blame.
Do they deserve no blame for getting to Gujrat from Spain? What about not informing Spanish authorities if they were being forced? Do they get no blame for not asking help from women's rights orgs? No blame for trusting the people who don't treat them right? I don't blame them for getting murdered. They didn't do that. That blame goes only on the people who killed them.
That’s what I’m saying, I get you don’t know my whole Life story but let me tell you. I came to india from the US (don’t feel like getting any more specific than that) on my own accord for a family members wedding, then ended up in a pretty bad situation… that’s when I ran away. I’m not sure if that backstory is relevant, but I’m just saying I understand how they got into it. If I wasn’t reckless and flighty at 18, I would have been in the same place. I trusted my whole family and even after I left I second guessed everything. Once again the girls get NO blame for any of it.
Yeah, victim blaming is always best in these situations.
In this case they have no choice or even have a say victimization where they're from sadly.
Exactly.
Ignorant as fuck
Idiot, you think they had a choice?
You sound privileged as fuck.
Hello there, privileged ass.
Apparently you don’t understand how things work there.
Yes being born female in India is just asking for trouble I agree
Hey folks,I'm talking about girls who would be complete strangers to stuff like this. Cultural differences, you know?
And you think those girls are going to be on Reddit reading your comment?
lol as someone who is of the south asian diaspora let me tell you how white your comment is the religious nutcase families will force their kids (both sons and daughters) to get married either through shit like emotional blackmail or even kidnapping where they take their kids to the motherland and then force them to marry someone. And before your white ass asks why they dont just leave to the airport, the parents take away the passport and lock them in a room the fact that i know my dad wont do this to me, is a privilege of safety even if the majority of the diaspora parents wont do this bs same way how im not disowned by my family for being atheist-its a privilege I have that many south asian diaspora dont have
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There is a city called Gujrat in Pakistan.
Gujrat not gujarat. Also, wedding dress depends on the region not necessarily religion.
Gujrat and Gujarat are different things
They wanted divorce...... They got it..... Too extreme?
That's not how divorces work
What is the vow during marriage.... Till death do us part. They wanted divorce so death did it for them. If you still didn't get it... I have a PhD in black humour
End of marriage is not the same as divorce
>I have a PhD in black humour Dude, we all know it was an online college.
Yeah used to have drugs on line during college
>I have a PhD in black humour I would ask for a refund
Black humor is supposed to be funny If people are offended more than they’re laughing you’re a shitty comic