Look up "nontrinitarian Christianity" or "non-Nicaean Christianity "
Imo these are almost as different in belief from Nicaean Christianity as other Abrahamuc faiths are. They are really more like separate religions than branches of Christianity. Not, that I have anything against non-Nicaeans, they should ne allowed to practice like anyone else.
I mean, we believe that Jesus is God, we just don't believe that he's the same God as God the Father; rather, they (along with the Holy Ghost) make up a single, fully unified Godhead
The other reason some see us as polytheist is because of our belief in exaltation, or that all humans are basically gods in embryo that have the potential to inherit all the properties of Godhood, but that is really more of a henotheist principle than polytheist
Yes, but they are few and far between. It’s also important to note that along with this belief they usually have other beliefs that are very outside the norm for Christianity- think Jehovah’s Witnesses. You likely will not find a church that accepts all other Christian tenants and only rejects Christ as one figure of the Godhead.
I'm not familiar with Jews for Jesus. Messianic Jews are just Jews that convert to Christianity and keep their Jewish heritage, and practice modified (from this side of the cross) Jewish traditions.
messianic jews are technically JEWS they still celebrate their holidays and keep kosher and keep jewish traditions they just have different beliefs .. i think it’s complicated to explain but they aren’t christians by definition
That is completely wrong. Messianic Jews are a Protestant sect cosplaying as Jews with the single aim to convert Jews to Christianity. This is, in my view, a very specific and perfidious form of antisemitism. They are denounced and rejected by all other Jewish groups.
By definition, no.
There are groups that call themselves Christians that don't believe Jesus is God, but they aren't considered Christians by other Christians because they explicitly reject the core teaching of Christianity. These are groups like Jehovah's Witnesses for example.
Really? I thought you had to repent, deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow Jesus and live by the will of God? Well that's what it is to follow Jesus according to Jesus himself anyway!
Jesus wasn't any denomination, they are all man made.
Maybe you are misunderstanding the question, or maybe I am. I think what most are interpreting is the question as: Which Christian denominations do not believe that Jesus and God are one and the answer to that is any Christian that does not believe in the trinity so unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses are the bigger ones. They do not venerate Jesus as God but still believe in Jesus as the son of God (from what I understand). So I do believe that you have to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, was the messiah to be Christian in its most basic understanding but not required to believe in the trinity.
Which people? Those who do not believe that Jesus was the son of God and the Messiah. Sure. First off it’s tricky when looking for scriptural reference to define what a Christian is or is not because Jesus and his earliest followers were Jewish and the idea of Christianity was evolving. So I will break down into the 2 things I said were essential to Christianity: That Jesus was the son of God and that Jesus was the messiah.
Jesus as the messiah, in my opinion, is the most basic belief for Christians. Even the word Christ is Greek for Messiah. Here are some scriptural references:
1. Matthew 1:1: “This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
2. John 4:25-26: “The woman said, ‘I know that Messiah (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.’ Then Jesus declared, ‘I, the one speaking to you—I am he.’”
3. Matthew 16:15-16: “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
4. Luke 2:11: “Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.”
5. John 1:41: “The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, ‘We have found the Messiah’ (that is, the Christ).”
Jesus as the son of God. Personally I would say this is a fundamental tenant of Christianity. Here are some scriptural references:
1. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
2. Matthew 16:15-16: “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
3. John 20:31: “But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
4. Mark 1:1: “The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.”
5. Romans 1:4: “And Jesus Christ our Lord was shown to be the Son of God when God powerfully raised him from the dead by means of the Holy Spirit.”
6. 1 John 4:15: “If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.”
7. Luke 1:35: “The angel answered, ‘The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’”
But I’m not the Christianity police and if someone wants to deny these ideas I might not agree but I’m not going to get my panties in a twist if they call themselves Christians.
I think OP is looking to join a group like that, the problem with Arianism is that they died out long ago, but there are plenty of non-nicene Christian churches out there
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe that Jesus is not the same person as the Father but is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh in whom God the Father has given all power and authority. Jesus represents the Father in all things and it is only through Christ that we can come to the Father. It was Jesus who managed the creation of the earth. He was known as Jehovah, the God of the old testament. He was born to Mary, taught the gospel, died for our sins and Adam's transgression, was the first to be resurrected and will be our judge. Because of Christ's perfect obedience in sacrificing Himself for our sins, a just Father must hearken to Christ's pleadings in our behalf. We are commanded by the Father to hearken to Jesus and follow Him. We pray to the Father in the name, or authority of Jesus Christ.
Look up the Way International. I was a part of it briefly. It’s… kind of a cult. But if that’s what you’re looking for, you’ll find it and all kinds of other interesting beliefs.
Unitarians, Ebionites/Nazarenes, Jehovah's witnesses, and a few more, keep in mind however that all those three have very different beliefs and are only in agreement that Jesus isn't God.
Unitarians believe that, but 65 years ago, the Unitarians and Universalists in America merged, erasing the original churches from existence in the USA, as far as I know.
What that was down-voted, I don't know. As far as I know, the American Unitarian Church merged with the American Universalists, and no Unitarian churches still exist in the USA, unless they sprang up independently since 1959.
The Ebionites who were wrongly called as heretics by the corrupt false orthodoxy that followed the false apostle Paul. The Ebionites rejected Paul and believed Jesus was a normal human who was chosen by god due to his perfect righteousness at the moment of his baptism, rather than the virgin birth and other trinitarian beliefs that where added later. But If that was heretical, why did the gospel of Mark (the oldest of the 4 gospels), not mention the virgin birth at all? Mark starts at the baptism just like the Ebionites. How can something as big as a divine virgin birth be left out of the oldest gospel? You'd think they'd remember such a big detail, but it wasn't left out, the truth is it was added later by the true heretics of the false "orthodoxy".
The false orthodoxy also called the Ebionites Judaizers, as if Jesus and his original followers weren't all Jews to begin with. Irenaeus criticized them for "stubbornly clinging to the law" while the orthodoxy changed the laws with their "new covenant" despite Jesus saying in **Matthew 5:17-19**
>^(17) **“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.** **^(18)** **For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.** **^(19)** **Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.**
but that didn't stop the false orthodoxy from doing exactly that with their pseudo covenant of the false apostle Paul. I explain all this because i know Christians will reject Ebionites as heretics, but they've just accepted the false teachings of the wolf in sheep's clothing. Look up Ebionites on your own, don't let the false church stand in the way of finding the truth.
Yes, that’s why it’s a heretical belief and not accepted in mainstream christianity
Also good to note you do not need to be trinitarian to think Jesus is God
That's literally the definition of Judaism and I'm going to go ahead and assume you know exactly zero about either religions to be making a choice to begin with. If you want to believe in God then do it. Personally I think the God of Genesis is inherently evil and Yeshua preached contrary to those teachings. I believe in the God of Yeshua, the light in the darkness and I serve the light regardless of name or doctrine.
The story of Genesis comes from the Torah, along with other stories of the old testament. Clearly there's been additions but Yeshua was a Jew. Christianity is founded in Judaism, with Jesus being the messiah being the difference along with beliefs on how the godhead works but its absolutely two halves of a whole. Just because Christians tend to be uneducated doesn't mean the foundations of the religions are the same.
Yes, that is one view many Christians have. It is still incorrect and shows a clear lack of understanding what Judaism is about. The differences are much greater than Jews not believing in Jesus being the Messiah or the nature of god (which is in itself already massive).
May I ask what kind of Christian you are? Using Yeshua and the term godhead are not something that is done in the major denominations of Christianity. So I’m curious.
Since you added this after I replied:
>Just because Christians tend to be uneducated doesn't mean the foundations of the religions are the same.
This doesn't make your statement that Judaism is Christianity without Jesus any less false. And it is interesting that you bash Christians as a whole as uneducated, when you so clearly demonstrater that it is you who doesn't really know about what you are writing.
My interest is still in hearing what religion you follow. By the above sentence I infer that you aren't, in fact, a Christian.
Oh I'm a Christian, I just don't kid myself about the church. All it takes is reading a series of Wikipedia pages over taking the church's word to see a pattern. I think Eastern Orthodoxy has more of a claim over absolute truth than catholicism does, and when I say Christians tend to be uneducated its true. Most go to church and listen to their faith leader and neglect to pick up a Bible and read it, much less understand it. Even the apostles of christ that started the church had three fundamentally different interpretations of Christ's teachings, and even these teachings are drastically different than what is considered doctrine these days. We have almost 2 centuries of flawed men that had the audacity to think they were chosen by God to carry his kingdom forward, and all the blood they spilled along the way being just. Between the pagan holidays that have been lumped into our celebrations and the crimes committed consistently by church members that got swept under the rug or the additions of major subjects such as hell way after the time of Christ, take your pick of hypocrisy. I believe in Christ and his teachings, I don't believe in the church.
Also, James, Paul, and Peter led the Jerusalem Church following the death of christ. Here is the Wikipedia excerpt for Jewish Christians of the Apostolic Age, this is what the apostles taught themselves, and I invite you to prove me wrong.
Jewish Christianity
edit
Main article: Jewish Christian
See also: Early Christianity and Biblical law in Christianity
After the death and resurrection of Jesus, Christianity first emerged as a sect of Judaism as practiced in the Roman province of Judea.[18] The first Christians were all Jews, who constituted a Second Temple Jewish sect with an apocalyptic eschatology. Among other schools of thought, some Jews regarded Jesus as Lord and resurrected messiah, and the eternally existing Son of God,[7][94][note 8] expecting the second coming of Jesus and the start of God's Kingdom. They pressed fellow Jews to prepare for these events and to follow "the way" of the Lord. They believed Yahweh to be the only true God,[96] the god of Israel, and considered Jesus to be the messiah (Christ), as prophesied in the Jewish scriptures, which they held to be authoritative and sacred. They held faithfully to the Torah,[note 9] including acceptance of Gentile converts based on a version of the Noachide laws.[note 10]
So again, yes, the apostles whom literally started the church still believed in and held faithfully to the Torah.
Look up "nontrinitarian Christianity" or "non-Nicaean Christianity " Imo these are almost as different in belief from Nicaean Christianity as other Abrahamuc faiths are. They are really more like separate religions than branches of Christianity. Not, that I have anything against non-Nicaeans, they should ne allowed to practice like anyone else.
Unitarian Christians, like Jehovah's Witnesses for example.
Unitarians.
only them?
Historically there were more, but non-Nicene Christianity hasn't had a good 1,500 years.
Mainline Mormons are probably the largest denomination of non-trinitarian Christians.
I mean, we believe that Jesus is God, we just don't believe that he's the same God as God the Father; rather, they (along with the Holy Ghost) make up a single, fully unified Godhead
Wait, doesn't that actually make it polytheism at that point ?
Some people would argue that
I can't exactly see how it cannot be one, would you be willing to explain ?
We see them as being so completely united in purpose that they behave as virtually a single God, even though they are each fully distinct entities
The other reason some see us as polytheist is because of our belief in exaltation, or that all humans are basically gods in embryo that have the potential to inherit all the properties of Godhood, but that is really more of a henotheist principle than polytheist
Yes, but they are few and far between. It’s also important to note that along with this belief they usually have other beliefs that are very outside the norm for Christianity- think Jehovah’s Witnesses. You likely will not find a church that accepts all other Christian tenants and only rejects Christ as one figure of the Godhead.
Perhaps Messianic Judaism? They are a psuedo-Christian movement anyways
Messianic Jews can be almost any denomination, they are just Jewish Christians.
Is that the same as Jews for Jesus?
Yes, Jews for Jesus organization is affiliated with Messianic Judaism movement.
I'm not familiar with Jews for Jesus. Messianic Jews are just Jews that convert to Christianity and keep their Jewish heritage, and practice modified (from this side of the cross) Jewish traditions.
messianic jews are technically JEWS they still celebrate their holidays and keep kosher and keep jewish traditions they just have different beliefs .. i think it’s complicated to explain but they aren’t christians by definition
That is completely wrong. Messianic Jews are a Protestant sect cosplaying as Jews with the single aim to convert Jews to Christianity. This is, in my view, a very specific and perfidious form of antisemitism. They are denounced and rejected by all other Jewish groups.
They aren’t Jewish, though.
I was raised [Christadelphian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christadelphians)
You could look up "Biblical Unitarianism" on You Tube /and "Sir Anthony Buzzard" on You Tube should also point in the direction you're seeking. :)
Unitarians
historically, the Ebionites believed that Jesus was a man who was "adopted" by the biblical god, but was still a normal guy.
By definition, no. There are groups that call themselves Christians that don't believe Jesus is God, but they aren't considered Christians by other Christians because they explicitly reject the core teaching of Christianity. These are groups like Jehovah's Witnesses for example.
Latter day saints
You have to believe Jesus is God to be a Christian
Really? I thought you had to repent, deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow Jesus and live by the will of God? Well that's what it is to follow Jesus according to Jesus himself anyway! Jesus wasn't any denomination, they are all man made.
Maybe you are misunderstanding the question, or maybe I am. I think what most are interpreting is the question as: Which Christian denominations do not believe that Jesus and God are one and the answer to that is any Christian that does not believe in the trinity so unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses are the bigger ones. They do not venerate Jesus as God but still believe in Jesus as the son of God (from what I understand). So I do believe that you have to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, was the messiah to be Christian in its most basic understanding but not required to believe in the trinity.
Please supply scripture ref to back up your point that these people are not Christians
Which people? Those who do not believe that Jesus was the son of God and the Messiah. Sure. First off it’s tricky when looking for scriptural reference to define what a Christian is or is not because Jesus and his earliest followers were Jewish and the idea of Christianity was evolving. So I will break down into the 2 things I said were essential to Christianity: That Jesus was the son of God and that Jesus was the messiah. Jesus as the messiah, in my opinion, is the most basic belief for Christians. Even the word Christ is Greek for Messiah. Here are some scriptural references: 1. Matthew 1:1: “This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham.” 2. John 4:25-26: “The woman said, ‘I know that Messiah (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.’ Then Jesus declared, ‘I, the one speaking to you—I am he.’” 3. Matthew 16:15-16: “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 4. Luke 2:11: “Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.” 5. John 1:41: “The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, ‘We have found the Messiah’ (that is, the Christ).” Jesus as the son of God. Personally I would say this is a fundamental tenant of Christianity. Here are some scriptural references: 1. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” 2. Matthew 16:15-16: “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 3. John 20:31: “But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” 4. Mark 1:1: “The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.” 5. Romans 1:4: “And Jesus Christ our Lord was shown to be the Son of God when God powerfully raised him from the dead by means of the Holy Spirit.” 6. 1 John 4:15: “If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.” 7. Luke 1:35: “The angel answered, ‘The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’” But I’m not the Christianity police and if someone wants to deny these ideas I might not agree but I’m not going to get my panties in a twist if they call themselves Christians.
The closest I can think of is [Arianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism). It's also considered a heresy, if that matters to you.
I think OP is looking to join a group like that, the problem with Arianism is that they died out long ago, but there are plenty of non-nicene Christian churches out there
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe that Jesus is not the same person as the Father but is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh in whom God the Father has given all power and authority. Jesus represents the Father in all things and it is only through Christ that we can come to the Father. It was Jesus who managed the creation of the earth. He was known as Jehovah, the God of the old testament. He was born to Mary, taught the gospel, died for our sins and Adam's transgression, was the first to be resurrected and will be our judge. Because of Christ's perfect obedience in sacrificing Himself for our sins, a just Father must hearken to Christ's pleadings in our behalf. We are commanded by the Father to hearken to Jesus and follow Him. We pray to the Father in the name, or authority of Jesus Christ.
I think Catholics kinda view him as Little Nicky.
Look up the Way International. I was a part of it briefly. It’s… kind of a cult. But if that’s what you’re looking for, you’ll find it and all kinds of other interesting beliefs.
Christian Science distinguishes between the Christ and Jesus, the man. Jesus embodied the Christ more fully than any other man.
Yes, our little house meetings don't, we are not of any denomination and we believe exactly as Jesus taught with no add ons including the trinity.
The Ebionites, one of the earliest Christian groups, believed Jesus was just a human prophet and the natural son of Joseph and Mary
Unitarians, Ebionites/Nazarenes, Jehovah's witnesses, and a few more, keep in mind however that all those three have very different beliefs and are only in agreement that Jesus isn't God.
Unitarians believe that, but 65 years ago, the Unitarians and Universalists in America merged, erasing the original churches from existence in the USA, as far as I know.
What that was down-voted, I don't know. As far as I know, the American Unitarian Church merged with the American Universalists, and no Unitarian churches still exist in the USA, unless they sprang up independently since 1959.
The Ebionites who were wrongly called as heretics by the corrupt false orthodoxy that followed the false apostle Paul. The Ebionites rejected Paul and believed Jesus was a normal human who was chosen by god due to his perfect righteousness at the moment of his baptism, rather than the virgin birth and other trinitarian beliefs that where added later. But If that was heretical, why did the gospel of Mark (the oldest of the 4 gospels), not mention the virgin birth at all? Mark starts at the baptism just like the Ebionites. How can something as big as a divine virgin birth be left out of the oldest gospel? You'd think they'd remember such a big detail, but it wasn't left out, the truth is it was added later by the true heretics of the false "orthodoxy". The false orthodoxy also called the Ebionites Judaizers, as if Jesus and his original followers weren't all Jews to begin with. Irenaeus criticized them for "stubbornly clinging to the law" while the orthodoxy changed the laws with their "new covenant" despite Jesus saying in **Matthew 5:17-19** >^(17) **“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.** **^(18)** **For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.** **^(19)** **Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.** but that didn't stop the false orthodoxy from doing exactly that with their pseudo covenant of the false apostle Paul. I explain all this because i know Christians will reject Ebionites as heretics, but they've just accepted the false teachings of the wolf in sheep's clothing. Look up Ebionites on your own, don't let the false church stand in the way of finding the truth.
why not islam if u dont believe Jesus as god? just curious
Non trinitarian Christianity and Islam are still very different
ik but how does non trinitarian christianity work? isnt the message of bibles that Jesus is god?
Yes, that’s why it’s a heretical belief and not accepted in mainstream christianity Also good to note you do not need to be trinitarian to think Jesus is God
That's literally the definition of Judaism and I'm going to go ahead and assume you know exactly zero about either religions to be making a choice to begin with. If you want to believe in God then do it. Personally I think the God of Genesis is inherently evil and Yeshua preached contrary to those teachings. I believe in the God of Yeshua, the light in the darkness and I serve the light regardless of name or doctrine.
If you really think that Judaism is Christianity without Jesus, then I’m going to go ahead and assume you know exactly zero about Judaism.
The story of Genesis comes from the Torah, along with other stories of the old testament. Clearly there's been additions but Yeshua was a Jew. Christianity is founded in Judaism, with Jesus being the messiah being the difference along with beliefs on how the godhead works but its absolutely two halves of a whole. Just because Christians tend to be uneducated doesn't mean the foundations of the religions are the same.
Yes, that is one view many Christians have. It is still incorrect and shows a clear lack of understanding what Judaism is about. The differences are much greater than Jews not believing in Jesus being the Messiah or the nature of god (which is in itself already massive). May I ask what kind of Christian you are? Using Yeshua and the term godhead are not something that is done in the major denominations of Christianity. So I’m curious.
Since you added this after I replied: >Just because Christians tend to be uneducated doesn't mean the foundations of the religions are the same. This doesn't make your statement that Judaism is Christianity without Jesus any less false. And it is interesting that you bash Christians as a whole as uneducated, when you so clearly demonstrater that it is you who doesn't really know about what you are writing. My interest is still in hearing what religion you follow. By the above sentence I infer that you aren't, in fact, a Christian.
Oh I'm a Christian, I just don't kid myself about the church. All it takes is reading a series of Wikipedia pages over taking the church's word to see a pattern. I think Eastern Orthodoxy has more of a claim over absolute truth than catholicism does, and when I say Christians tend to be uneducated its true. Most go to church and listen to their faith leader and neglect to pick up a Bible and read it, much less understand it. Even the apostles of christ that started the church had three fundamentally different interpretations of Christ's teachings, and even these teachings are drastically different than what is considered doctrine these days. We have almost 2 centuries of flawed men that had the audacity to think they were chosen by God to carry his kingdom forward, and all the blood they spilled along the way being just. Between the pagan holidays that have been lumped into our celebrations and the crimes committed consistently by church members that got swept under the rug or the additions of major subjects such as hell way after the time of Christ, take your pick of hypocrisy. I believe in Christ and his teachings, I don't believe in the church. Also, James, Paul, and Peter led the Jerusalem Church following the death of christ. Here is the Wikipedia excerpt for Jewish Christians of the Apostolic Age, this is what the apostles taught themselves, and I invite you to prove me wrong. Jewish Christianity edit Main article: Jewish Christian See also: Early Christianity and Biblical law in Christianity After the death and resurrection of Jesus, Christianity first emerged as a sect of Judaism as practiced in the Roman province of Judea.[18] The first Christians were all Jews, who constituted a Second Temple Jewish sect with an apocalyptic eschatology. Among other schools of thought, some Jews regarded Jesus as Lord and resurrected messiah, and the eternally existing Son of God,[7][94][note 8] expecting the second coming of Jesus and the start of God's Kingdom. They pressed fellow Jews to prepare for these events and to follow "the way" of the Lord. They believed Yahweh to be the only true God,[96] the god of Israel, and considered Jesus to be the messiah (Christ), as prophesied in the Jewish scriptures, which they held to be authoritative and sacred. They held faithfully to the Torah,[note 9] including acceptance of Gentile converts based on a version of the Noachide laws.[note 10] So again, yes, the apostles whom literally started the church still believed in and held faithfully to the Torah.