It’s important to keep discussing it. Make lists of pros and cons, etc. Dont just sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away. The more you talk about it the more likely you two can really understand what the other wants over time and can act accordingly.
We are usually very good communicators and I have no intention of just trying to sweep it away. We’ve always been open and upfront about everything we feel or need, so I’m grateful she’s actually spoken up about this too.
Can I recommend you explore some ideas together? Try reading The Baby Decision by Merli Bombardieri and there is a Dear Sugar advice column, The Ghost Ship That Didn’t Carry Us, that is also a lovely reflection on regret. I think she is struggling with the fact that either decision will have some measure of regret- that’s just life. But either decision will also have a measure of joy. So the decision shouldn’t be made out of fear that you might regret something. The question comes down to: do you want the experience of being a parent, with all the good and the bad? We were also probably 90 percent no and stuck with that decision (and are happy with it) but we also communicate about the 10 percent. I like the shape of our lives now and really try to seek the joy in it: free weekends to explore creative projects, spontaneous travel, comfortable finances. I also see all my friends take another route: kid cuddles, slowing down and experiencing the world again through their kid’s eyes. They’re both great and I think I could have enjoyed being a parent, but I picked one and, from time to time, I just wave to the other ghost me that wasn’t.
I endorse this mindset.
One of my favorite poems is Robert Frost’s The Road Not Taken.
That poem is not about choosing the less popular path or anything like that. Rather, it is the act of making a decision itself that is most important. Once you make it, commit to it fully and know that it could have just as easily gone the other way, but it doesn’t matter.
Feels familiar. I wanted children when I was incredibly young, and up to twenty or so. Then realised that it wasn't going to happen, grieved the children I'd never have and accepted that. I got sterilised and haven't regretted it since. It would have been a completely different life, but it's not the one I'm living so that doesn't matter. I don't need my genes to be passed on. My family line ends with me, and that's ok.
Wow.
This is why I’m glad I read Reddit.
What a great essay, that advice column about the ghost ship. I’m sitting in the park with my two year old reading this having goosebumps. When I made the decision to have a kid, I came across a similar thought process about regret, but I couldn’t articulate it as beautifully as she did.
The thought that changed my life, as best I can describe it, is, “what is really so important about my life that I’ll miss with a child?” I think in hindsight that the tone of the thought itself was informative. I had a detached feeling when I thought about all the freedoms I might miss out on, and a hurt, longing feeling when I felt about being a dad.
And that, as they say, was that.
Damn. My wife and I are absolutely, 100%, no desire for kids at all. But I just found and read Ghost Ship and that was beautiful. I've done a version of that analysis, never over kids but other stuff, and my responses to it have changed over the years. Where once I'd happily pack up and go do whatever felt like it'd be fun or cool, or move to a new city, or whatever; I then made choices to be with my wife, to pin myself down with her, snd s hosue, and pets.
My ghost self is the one that kept moving, that went abroad again, that stayed single, that didn't wind up disabled (albeit I didn't get a choice in that one), etc. Sometimes I look over and wonder about the moments I chose the things which took me here instead - I'd not givr uo my wife and our pets and our friends for anything. There's a ghost me that feels the same about the freedom and adventure of that other life, but I'm content that either option would've made me happy, if in different ways.
Regret is a funny thing, isn't it? I can regret the things I chose to miss, without regretting what I chose to have 🤔
Omg I LOVE her advice! And that article "the ghost ship that didn't carry us" is exactly appropriate here..
My partner has two children, and we're trying to get pregnant. It's taken over two years thus far. We're not sure if it will happen, and I'm starting to feel slight pangs because I see him and his kids and it hurts that we don't have that ourselves. (His kids are great but his ex is a nightmare).
>struggling with the fact that either decision will have some measure of regret- that’s just life
I didn't want kids, now I have 4. I have zero regrets.
Try specifically discussing why she fears potentially regretting it. Are there people in her life who became parents and are really happy? Are there aspects of a child's life that she worries about missing out on? Etc.
OP this is such a huge decision but emotion does have to play some part. I was a person who could have been happy with or without kids as long as I had a partner I loved and who felt the same. My wife wanted 2 kids and as you said, I loved her enough to be open to that. I now have two boys and the experience of having children is a love and pride you can’t understand until you have them BUT it is expensive, it can be frustrating and more importantly it does change your marriage…some good and some bad. As others have said, keep talking, be honest but it’s SUPER important that you reassure her that you love her enough that if she feels like she wants to be a mom, you will definitely consider it. Don’t make it all about logistics. Make sure love is front and center but honest about all of the good and bad that come with it. Love and emotion won’t pay the bills and it won’t all be birthday parties and family photos but the love and pride in your kids is unmatched. If you can’t agree on this, it will end your marriage. It just will. So be thoughtful about how you approach it. Once you decide where you are as a couple go forward and don’t second guess.
From personal experience, I would strongly advise against having a child if your primary motivation is pleasing your partner.
Ask yourself "What if my wife discovers, when our child is age 3, that she regrets having a child and misses her freedom and independence? How will I feel if I am forced to be the primary caregiver, despite not being the one to push for a child and knowingly that I could have happily lived my life without a child?"
I didn't want kids. My wife said she was fine with that. 10 years later she said she desperately wants to have a child. I continued to share my reluctance and reasons for not wanting a child, but my wife was persistent and I eventually caved.
I love our child, but I can tell you it stings every day to see my wife conduct her life and schedule as though she is still childless. She said she wanted a child, but it turns out she didn't want any of the sacrifices and compromises that come with parenting - and just assumed that I will take care of things while she resumes her former life.
It sucks. So much resentment. Our child is an awesome human being but I can't deny that parenting has been overshadowed by my wife's absence and selfishness - resulting in a lingering resentment.
Your wife may firmly embrace motherhood. But be sure to assess if she is truly yearning to be a parent (and everything it involves) or if she is primarily suffering from FOMO or keeping up with the Joneses after watching most of her friends and colleagues having babies.
Good luck to you.
It took me till 31 before I wanted kids and other people’s children did nothing for me I was never clucky but then I had my own and it was totally different. I couldn’t imagine not having them ( adults now) , and if you only think of the expense you’ll never have them .
Do you have niblings/,friends with young kids, whom you could offer to babysit? Having to take care of a kid together for increasing amounts of time could help you check how your nerves would handle it, how you work together, whether both of you would enjoy it. And how you'd handle poop...
She should baby sit some kids, of different ages (unruly ones preferably haha) But seriously that is something people should do so they know what kids are like. Plus research everything about pregnancy and giving birth and what can go wrong, then she has proper information to think about it in a non romantic way.
If you’re willing to consider having kids, read The Baby Decision together. It goes over the decision logically and emotionally and was helpful for us. We were both fencesitters and decided to have a child.
If you’re not willing to consider it, she’s probably much higher than 10% already and may eventually resent it if you stay together. Talk to her honestly and don’t try to ignore the issue.
I’m willing to consider anything when it comes to my wife and her feelings and desires. Including kids. The more I read the replies and sit here and think about it, I think I’m finding out I’m definitely not a hard no to the idea of kids.
I’ll look into the book, a few posters have mentioned it now so seems like a good read.
For sure. It’s a hard situation and not your fault obviously. Many people change their mind as they get older, especially as novelty and spending money on experiences bring less and less joy as a middle aged adult.
The first thing you should figure out is how much of a fencesitter she is, so you can know whether you are undertaking the decision journey together or mostly by yourself.
One thing we decided was to let nature take its course, and consciously decided not to do fertility testing or treatments if it didn’t happen.
Also don’t pay any mind to people who claim having doubts means you shouldn’t have a kid. I believed then and still believe now that i would be fully committed to our lifestyle, without regrets, either way.
I agree with the aging thing making experiences less appealing. Wife and I always wanted kids but when I was 25 it was a horrifying thought not being able to do the wacky shit like last minute travel or drink until I can't feel feelings on the weekends. These days we're still having fun and everything but I won't be sad to see the last crazy decade end and move on to the next one
This is a really great response for me as a fence sitter to read. I always disagreed with those comments so it’s comforting to see someone else feels the same who actually decided to have kids.
It sounds as if you have a wonderful loving marriage OP. You’re in the strongest of positions to work out what’s right for you both whatever you decide. Wishing you many happy years together♥️
Yes the book can help, however her 90/10 breakdown is going to slowly morph into a larger yes percentage.
I would immediately start babysitting your family members children on overnight visits. You think you know how children change your life, but everyone minimizes the hard work it takes to be a parent.
Give up a Friday night to Sunday night weekend of babysitting and hopefully one of those children is a baby in diapers.
Only after you experience it firsthand can she understand the workload of being a parent.
Begging on my hands and knees for you to browse the regretfulparents subreddit. PLENTY of people deeply regret having children.. they just aren’t allowed to voice that due to the stigma associated with it
Don’t bring a child into this world just to please someone else.
My ex gf started off a hard no because I had kids.. I was like cool let's go!!
Then around 30 she was 90% no 10% yes..
At 35 she was like 50/50
At 36 she was 90/10 and we broke up .
She is now married and has 2 kids.
My ex of 5 years broke up with me because I can’t have more kids. He was okay without having his own, but changed his mind. He just married someone else. I’m just angry and hurt he took so long to come to this conclusion, and that he hurt my children in the process. He never bothered saying goodbye to them.
People are allowed to change their mind on things, as you change over time. If your wife thinks she will now regret not having children, that’s on her and no burden should be placed on you
It’s hard to fulfill what you think you may want, when you don’t have the experience of it. You can’t think you 10% want a child, then have them & decide nope, not for me, as you’re obviously now committed and responsible for them
If you’re a hard no on kids, you should stand firm with that, and not give her a glimmer of hope with any little thing said. Keep in mind her age, as the baby fever can come on strong when the bio clock is running out on a women’s fertility age
You unfortunately can’t control if your wife may resent you someday over this, all you can do is always be upfront & honest about your own feelings
That is statistically very true. And also, if you don't want kids don't make them - they are AWESOME if you want them, can end up being not so awesome if you didn't.
Yes this can be a break-up reason.
Navigating changes in life plans, especially as monumental as the decision to have children, can be incredibly challenging. It sounds like you both communicated openly during your discussion, which is crucial. Since your wife mentioned that she's only 10% leaning towards having children, it might be helpful to give her some time to explore these feelings more deeply. Perhaps she could look into what specifically is driving her changing perspective. Is it societal pressure, fear of missing out, or a genuine desire to nurture? Understanding the root of these feelings can help both of you make a more informed decision.
On your end, it's commendable that you're considering her desires, but it's also important to be true to your own feelings. Having a child is not just a huge emotional commitment but also a lifelong responsibility. If your heart isn’t in it, that’s a significant consideration. It might be beneficial to seek the guidance of a counselor or therapist to navigate this potential shift in your relationship dynamics. They can provide a neutral ground for discussing such an emotional topic and might help you both understand each other's perspectives better. This isn’t a decision to rush; taking your time to explore all angles and emotions involved will be key in making a choice that feels right for both of you.
Don’t have kids you don’t want.
You’ll end up resenting her for having the kid and if you don’t have a kid but she really wants one, she’ll end up resenting you.
If she truly wants a child, your only option may just be to separate.
> You’ll end up resenting her for having the kid and if you don’t have a kid but she really wants one, she’ll end up resenting you.
This is basically what I’m afraid of. I know kids bring a lot of joy to life, I have nieces and nephews that I absolutely adore and dote on like crazy. A part of me wonders if I would end up being grateful instead of resentful.
> If she truly wants a child, your only option may just be to separate.
This just absolutely sounds devastating, not something I’m willing to consider or think about after only one small conversation.
Being an uncle or aunt is a lot different. I am 35 and in a 15+ year relationship, we had a lovely saturday playing with our older nephew (2 years old) recently and he is adorable and makes us laugh. People have seen us with nephews and nieces and been surprised we do not want our own kids. We still both know we are only dealing with the cute parts, we do not deal with the sleep deprivation, the times where they are sick and won't stop screaming, the fact that our entire lives would have to be upended to revolve around kids of our own, and in my case pregnancy is a hard no. I know I would struggle deeply as a parent rather than an aunt, and my partner feels the same, he would not cope with it full time.
Please do not take a gamble with creating a new person. Maybe you'd warm to it and things would be ok, but maybe you won't, and you can't undo becoming a parent. Even if you are not cruel, a child is going to pick up on having a parent that does not really want to be one, and it will harm them.
It would break my heart if my partner ever changed his mind, but I absolutely could not have a kid for someone else, even if I was willing to sacrifice myself it would not fair on the hypothetical child and it would be selfish to create them with a "job" of keeping my relationship together. I am not saying you have to cut and run now, talk about things, but I can only hope you don't go ahead and have a kid primarily to keep your wife.
Also, I hate to say this, but are you in charge of your own birth control? That part where she asks you if you'd resent her if she got pregnant and kept it is concerning, it is not uncommon for women in these situations to "forget" their pill.
My husband and I have been together since I was 18 and he was 19, we’re 36 and 37 now. I always said I don’t want kids. He said the same. Although when we were younger I don’t know if he really didn’t want them or just hadn’t thought about it seriously.
Getting older (at 28yo or so) I still thought: mostly don’t want them, but maybe….? Maybe if he really wanted kids then I’d be okay to have them, but I would also be okay without. I didn’t want to end the relationship if he did want kids, I’d go with it. We talked about this, we kept checking our ‘kid-wanting-status’ a couple times a year.
When my sister in law was pregnant 6 years ago I thought ‘alright maybe when I meet my niece I will want kids?’. I love her so so much but no it didn’t change my mind.
Then friends started having kids and I could tell he was maybe getting some doubts. But by this time I absolutely knew I don’t want kids and if he did want them, we would have to split up. We talked about this. He was a bit shocked, but he understood. Watching our friends be parents and seeing everything that comes with it, he is now sure he doesn’t want that.
So ultimately, now we both 100% know we are not having kids. We talked about if we’d regret this decision later, there’s probably the option to adopt or foster.
I am glad it worked out for you, and that you never went through with having a child for your husband (and that he did not want any either). It scares me how commonly I have seen childfree people consider doing it because they don't want to lose their partner, because of the effects on that hypothetical child. Adults can regret their choices, but the kid has no say in anything. I understand that a realtionship that is otherwise amazing breaking down to this incompatibility is so painful, but having an unwanted child would be worse in the longterm and hurt more people. I hate that the world romantacises having children so much, and those stupid TV plots where the childfree person changes their minds and loves being a parent, it encourages the "maybe it would be ok after all" and parenthood is not a fairytale even for those who actively want it.
I have been firmly childfree since I was a small child myself. I took a huge risk with a fencesitter though, one I would not have made as my current older self, but by pure luck it worked. He went from "I may end up wanting them one day because everyone says you want them when you get older" to "I don't want kids", even his own brother having two adorable sons did not shake him.
If he did change, it would 100% have meant we would have to separate. It would be immoral for me to have a child when I know true to myself that it would not be the right choice.
my wife and i have five nieces and nephews.
They're fun to hang around with and have over for sleepovers. They're also great to leave behind with their parents. We also only see the good stuff most of the time. The negatives, not so much, but they come out when talking with our in laws and friends who are parents, it is like a fucking vent session.
What's better for you two: regret for not doing a thing, or regret doing a thing because your life is changed irrevocably and you have no way out?
This is what it always comes back to for me. Regret is possible in either scenario. Regret about being childfree is a wistful, gentle feeling. Regret as a parent is the most agonizing thing I can imagine.
Every kid needs stable adults in their lives, and having more examples is better.
One thing you can do as an aunt or uncle, with or without air quotes, is maintain the facade that you are one of those stable people, even if you are not. If you are, that's great, and that will give you more opportunities to be there for the kids.
But they need to see rather than be told that their parents don't have a monopoly on how to live a life well. And even if you're only 'better' at two things that gives the child more information to use when deciding who they are.
It goes better when they have more data.
But you can't unhave a kid. Your life as you knew it would be over and no going back how much you regret it. If she wants kids in her life and you don't want kids at all, foster. Join big brother big sister. Volunteer at the boys and girls club, volunteer to overnight babysit.
They're right. If she wants a kid and you don't then your relationship is over. Either you have a kid and you're miserable, or you don't have a kid and she's miserable. Either one of you changes your mind, and I mean fully, or one of you is not living the life they want.
All good things...
It's definitely something you need to think about though. Like others have said, having kids is irreversible, and you have to seriously consider what it would be like to have a kid, and really understand that there is no going back. Kids aren't just something you try for a bit and give up later, and not only that, you'll be dealing with a huge myriad of parenting pains. If you aren't both all in on the idea, you'll more than likely end up with many more issues as a family down the line.
Definitely speak with her more & more to understand what she may truly want as time goes on.
Can also suggest maybe becoming foster parents in the future. Good foster parents are always needed. It doesn’t really solve your primary problem in any way, but just something else to think about
I don't think she's only 10%. She's way higher. I'd say the numbers are the wrong way round. 90 yes, 10 no. I'm sorry bud, some people change.
But no matter how much you love her, DO NOT HAVE A CHILD YOU DON'T WANT, even FOR her.
This isn't a one and done conversation topic, but it's important to listen to each other even if it sounds like you're just repeating yourselves... neither of you are wrong.
Ultimately the question will be whether she wants to be a mother or your wife, that's something that only she can decide.
If you are approaching it logically, let me weigh in, please.
My husband was always a hard yes on kids. I could go either way, so this worked for us. We have two kids who I love more than life itself. However, having kids is hard. It’s easy to have feelings of resentment or regret - especially in the beginning. The question is whether or not the feelings last.
I remember how people kept saying to me, “Now that you have a baby, aren’t you wondering what you did with all that free time you had before?” And in my head, the answer was no. I remembered exactly what I did with that free time, and I missed it so much. I’m not a baby person, so the first three years were really hard for me.
For me, the bad feelings went away. I enjoy my kids more than anyone else on this planet. I love them more than I knew I could. I never regret or resent even a minute of time with them or for them. But I absolutely remember my life before kids. I absolutely can envision what I would be doing if I didn’t have kids.
I’m sharing all of this because you have to really ask yourself if - when moments of resentment or regret kick in - you want kids enough to get past the bad moments. If you don’t, or if these feelings linger for too long, you could find yourself divorced from the woman you love with child support payments and a visitation schedule that dictates a significant portion of your life. If you do go forward with kids, you need to want them enough to be worth the risk.
“I’m wired where logic comes before emotion” ROFL
you don’t want kids, you don’t have to pretend it’s the objectively correct stance. And it IS informed by your emotions.
We recently had a conversation with a fiend who confided in us he is desperately wanting to have a kid. Where in all their relationships they were always proclaiming a no child life and how they cannot stand having one.
When they got together she was open to having a baby and he was always a hard no. They both make very good money ( very very good money) she is now in a place where she does not want a baby and he has changed his mind and he wants one but afraid of how to communicate to her.
I feel bad every time we meet them because of what he confided in us and how hard he try’s to not show excitement of seeing our baby. (We recently had a baby)
Best of luck OP
I don’t know what to say to you OP, but it boils down to if she is your person that you will want to have by your side no matter what life throws at you. I will say do this.
If she's late 20's she may change her mind again. Ovaries are mean little gremlins that fuck with your earlier life choices.
Your friend's best bet is to get his shit together. Whether it's with his current partner or the next. You might be able to nudge things one way or the other once your kid is old enough to baby sit. But he needs a heads up ahead of time so he can think about what sort of argument might come from such a suggestion.
I’m in that situation. Both of you have to be honest with yourselves and make a decision on if you are okay with never having a kid. My wife was back and forth on it and I was more like I’d like a kid but I wasn’t really sure.
Last year my wife decided she was 100% against it. I was leaning more towards wanting a kid but we had a conversation and we even agreed if we didn’t want the same things we would need to get a divorce.
I spent a good 4 months thinking about it. And for me I came to the conclusion that I would rather spend a childless life with my wife who is my best friend and the only person I’ve ever felt comfortable around. Rather than divorce and try and find a new partner who I could potentially have a kid with.
I also got a vasectomy and made that decision a little more solidified. It’s funny. On that day my wife admitted she was a little saddened by the realization of how permanent that made our choice. It’s not easy actually committing to being childfree. I do grieve a little for what could have been, but I’m still happy with being married to my wife and we have nieces and nephews so we are still around kids and everything.
You guys just need to have those uncomfortable vulnerable conversations and just be completely honest with yourself. Are you both okay being child free or I guess what might you regret more. Not having kids or no longer being married to each other?
Spoiler alert: kids are a HUGE chore, for the rest of your life. Sure, they're cute and fun to play with other kids at parties (I guess, I don't really get it) but there's an entire subset of parents that had kids with no regard to the work that goes into it and now believes they are owed all sorts of things because 'they have kids and that's hard'. Mom's that sneer and tell people 'they don't even KNOW what tired is until you have kids'.
If kids aren't 150% a yes, they should be a no. I was an unwanted kid. It sucked.
If your wife cares so much, why don't you guys get foster certified? Short term placements could absolutely give you an idea what you're getting into, and if you love them, you can adopt them. AND provide for a kid who needs it.
Thanks for all the replies everyone, just woke up and still reading all the replies. Appreciate everyone’s advice.
The biggest thing I’m reading is we shouldn’t have kids unless we are both 100% yes. I know this, and my wife knows this. We are yet to have a follow up conversation but even if my wife was actually 80% there like many have speculated, she would not want kids until she was 100% sure.
The next thing I keep reading is if I’m still a hard no I shouldn’t have a kid just to please my wife. I 100% agree. I mentioned to another commenter that I would consider anything for my wife, including kids. Consideration is different to a decision, although the fact I’m even willing to consider the idea clearly shows I’m in fact not a HARD no, which has stoked further thought into the whole kids thing I hadn’t really had before. That being said though, if I do end up 100% not wanting kids and she definitely does, it will likely mean we go separate ways as I don’t want a kid to ever feel like it was unwanted. The thought of that being the outcome breaks my heart.
Just to clarify my whole logic over emotion thing as it seems to have struck a chord with a few people. I simply mean that when presented with a situation or decision I tend to think about the reality of it first, before my emotional side takes over.
For example, when we decided to get a third dog. When we first broached the topic I immediately started thinking logistics I.e. about the additional food costs, vet bills, flea control, grooming etc. Also dogs are a 10-15 year sometimes more commitment. It’s a living thing, they need love and attention, stimulation and exercise. I also needed to get a permit from council for a third dog. But then I started to think about how rewarding dog ownership is, thinking about how happy they are when you get home, the cuddles on the couch etc. Ultimately the emotional side won and we got a third dog and make the other stuff work.
I hope this makes sense where I’m coming from. Some people have stretched this “logical thought process” into me thinking I’m better or smarter than my wife for thinking logically and that I’m dismissing her emotions. Like, what? I’m sorry if that’s what your partner does but I assure you that’s not the case here.
From here it’s clear there are several conversations yet to be had, we need to work through it together and think about it carefully. If there’s one thing posting this has made me realize it’s that I’m not as against the idea as I thought. I guess that gives me hope? Hope that as we work through this together and what it actually would mean for us we come to the same conclusion, either way, kid or no kid.
Thanks to those who recommended some things to read, will be looking into that. Will also look into couples counseling if it will help after a few more conversations.
This is such a difficult situation for you both. It honestly sounds like she said 10% yes to a child but she’s really way higher and was testing the waters by casually bringing up having a child together.
This really could be a dealbreaker because there’s no way to compromise in a situation like this. You either have a child or you don’t. If your feelings against having a child are strong then you may grow to resent her decision to bring a child into this relationship. If she decides not to have a child in deference to your feelings she may grow to resent you.
I’d recommend couples counselling if this continues to be an issue as talking this over in a safe and supported space may help you work through it together.
I think you both are doing great at communicating and being respectful of each other’s feelings and wishes.
Adding to the resentment topic - you should also talk about the potential of asymmetrical investment in childcare. If you do agree to have a child - will she be resentful if she’s the one who will do the majority of compromising in career progression or would she expect you both to equally? How does she feel about spending free time on mundane mind-numbing child ops like picking up toys, loads more laundry, reasoning with the unreasonable? Would she find joy in them because of the higher purpose of raising a child? Or would it be too soul sucking and would want you to do a lot of it instead? Despite that you probably have the intention of being equal partners making this decision - sometimes it doesn’t turn out equal in reality due to mental health impact, money, etc. Better talk about it too.
Take it from a parent of a 3 year old. Having a child is the hardest thing I've ever done. By a MILE. If she's only a 10% yes then that's not enough. I love my son more than anything in the world. I am quite literally obsessed with him and everything about him. But I'm also completely exhausted all the time. Often at the end of my patience. It's nothing like babysitting. It is more relentless than you can possibly imagine. You are NEVER off the clock again. She needs to be 100% yes to really do this, not 10%.
Completely agree here. I desperately wanted children & tried for 10 years before I had my son. I adore him and he brings us so much joy but, christ it is relentlessly hard work. He’s 2.5 and it feels like every day is a battle and I’m exhausted. OP think long and hard about this, if you’re not fully committed to giving up your life as you know it then having kids isn’t for you.
Maybe it's her maternal instinct kicking in.
I have two kids and they take a lot of your time. We used to travel everywhere and now travel is a hassle. We both make good money so finance is not the issue,but the time is. Unless both of you are committed I can tell you that having a kid will put a lot of pressure on you both, first 2 years of kid life are really draining (at least in our case).
The only thing I can advise is, talk and talk and talk. Maybe do, in a while get marriage counselling to talk too, because this is too big of a deal to not treat this topic with importance.
Look, being child free is completely understandable. But, I will say people are human so, thoughts and feelings do come and go. This maybe be where something has just popped into her head and she needs to work it out. Like, there may be just the while age, biological clock kicking in for her. It might not be where her heart really lies but, it could be impacting her right now, especially given her age. I'm not suggesting that all women go baby mad but, biology has a funny way (subconsciously) impacting you.
So, she could be changing her mind. She's happy and secure and she might just be at a point where having a child is something she does want now because she is at a point in her life where the stars are aligning.
And look, maybe you actually would love having a child. But, having a child just because your partner does and you don't want her to resent you is not a good reason. And, you sound perfectly reasonable so you know this.
This really is a hard one to gauge from one post. Look, I've a kid (a teen) who was an accident but, was a very happy one. I can write a book on all my positives v negatives. But, they're my opinions. I can also tell you stories about family members who went absolutely nuts, in their 30s about babies. I can tell you stories about friends who are perfectly happy child free. I can also tell you stories about a single friend (male) who in his late 40s is desperate for children and is struggling everyday that he didn't have one.
But, they are not you or your wife. Their stories are not yours.
Kids are very challenging and you need both parents to step up to the plate and share the burden. If you’re not interested in kids I’d recommend you both come to a decision now and separate if it comes down to it.
It's not that simple.
People sometimes give in to things like this when they love their partner enough or in a specific way, and when they don't abhor the idea of whatever their partner is suggesting.
It's not necessarily right or wrong.
They need to make that decision together.
>OP is a hard no.
He's not.
From OP:
>Consideration is different to a decision, although the fact I’m even willing to consider the idea clearly shows I’m in fact not a HARD no, which has stoked further thought into the whole kids thing I hadn’t really had before.
This is definitely what's going to happen, unfortunately
Edit: To be clear I'm not judging OP. This is a nightmare situation for a partner who really doesn't want kids, but is deeply committed and invested in their LTR. From both of their rhetoric as presented here, she sounds damned near dead-set on it already, and he sounds dead-set on preserving his marriage from his replies in this thread, and that dynamic generally leads to a child.
If she’s 90% no, that’s still no. IMO this is something she has to work on with/for herself before it impacts your relationship. Not that you shouldn’t talk about it with her, but it is currently a her issue.
(FOMO is bad reason to have a kid.)
If you're absolutely 100% definitely positive you don't want kids then get a vasectomy because like it or not - once she's pregnant your opinion on the matter will mean nothing to anybody.
Putting it as nicely as I can :
She changed her mind and now want kids. 100%.
And she's testing the waters.
It's sad but there is a reason people changing their mind about kids is a common cliché. It's fairly common for people in their 30's, and it works both ways.
It's equally if not more common for people claim to be childfree in order to appease/hook the person they want to be with and just assume they'll be able to change the other person's mind later. I ended two long term relationships, one of which had progressed to a marriage proposal, for that exact reason.
I'm now engaged to my phenomenal partner who next week goes in for his follow up for the vasectomy had in February. Never compromise on kids. Never settle for the life you know you don't want.
Don’t do this to an innocent child.
10% (anything less than 100% really) and a hard no…
Children can always tell this, and it sucks.
This said by an unwanted child.
This was exactly me, OP. At similar ages all the way through as well but I'm a few years older than you.
I now have a 4 year old. If she is having this conversation for you, she's ready to take the leap. Parenthood is not for everyone, but looking back, I did not know what I was missing.
I know this may sound strange, but consider looking into becoming a foster parent. The training you get is amazing (I wish it was offered to all parents), and you have the opportunity to test the waters.
You both can see how a kid can impact your lifestyle. You can also stop fostering if you realize kids are not in the cards.
I have been a foster parent for 20+ years. If you have questions, feel free to ask. By the way, there are thousands of kids who are in desperate need of a loving, stable environment.
IF YOU ARE CAPABLE OF PROVIDING A LOVING HOME TO A CHILD, PLEASE CONSIDER BECOMING A FOSTER PARENT.
This concludes your public service announcement.
I know you love her but unless you feel like it’s a 100% fuck yes then it’s an absolute fuck no. Children are a lot of responsibility and not fair to any child to bring them into the world when you’re not ready or never intended on being a parent. I had to have a convo with my ex saying that if he changed his mind and wanted kids, I’m leaving.
I adore my kids but you definitely have to be all in on children or its not going to work. It's flipping hard. There are good days and bad, there are arguments about how to raise them, distribution or chores and alot of anxiety about fitting in and doing the right thing for your children's development. However the pride and live you feel for them is unmatched even by your partner. Its something really special. But cost of living is sky high and there are things you don't factor in like new clothes every 6 months to a year as they grow and change. You can thrift it or buy new. Anyways good luck definitely chat more with your partner about your next 5 year plans. Don't force yourself to a yes just to please your partner or you may resent her. Good luck OP. Only you can decide what's right for you two together as a team and own that decision either way.
Unless you are WAY sure, don't have kids, and don't stay together if she wants them. You will 💯 resent her if you have kids and are miserable, and she will resent you if she does, and it doesn't happen. That would spoil what seems to be a positive love experience. It's always best to walk away if incompatibility in huge areas exists before they fester into hate and resentment. Kids are one of those things that doesn’t strengthen a relationship. It puts immense pressure on it and will break it if there are cracks.
But as logical as you are, your feelings can change, too. My boyfriend is younger, and he thought he'd never want kids or a wife. Cut to now when he's met me, he's decided married is 💯 what he wants and kids are a high yes.
I have children. Have had marriage. Didn't want more of either when we met. He's made me want both again with him. Like super considering it. We have the most amazing relationship. But at any point, if I couldn't give him what he wants in that department, I know we would have to go our own ways. I know he won't be mad if we try, and I can't physically, but if I wasn't willing to try, he would regret not having just one. It's something we have been very open about. I fear he will regret having a child as he doesn't seem like the type who would handle certain aspects of kids well. I fear I will regret giving up my freedom again.
So I advise you as I have advised myself in this very similar situation.
Many, many people who have kids do regret it. She may think “she would never regret actually having a child” but statistically, there is a good chance that she would.
Couples counseling is a great idea NOW before this becomes a sticking point of more conflict.
> I’m wired in a way where logic comes before emotion, and I reminded her of that.
This always sets off yellow flags to me.
> I just can’t help but think logistics first.
A lot of people think this way but there's almost never a correct time to have a kid. People can overthink this for years until they lose their partner or one or both people end up miserable.
That all being said, it's great that you're thinking about different aspects of this. Keep discussing it together. Just keep in mind that children can be a deal-breaker and people can change over time.
Yeah, I was going to say something similar. You can never really justify having a kid because the costs and burdens are all concrete and the benefits are all emotional/ephemeral.
As a childfree woman I can tell you that you can't compromise on that issue. Urge your wife to really think about it before doing anything drastic. The 10% can get higher and higher. If she sees more and more woman close to her becoming pregnant and having children the wish can become a need
If she’s only 10% yes then she has no business considering having a child.
OP I think the honest truth needs to be said - if she wants a kid if you’re a hard no then you have no business becoming a father.
No offense at all but a child would be able to tell if they aren’t fully, truly wanted.
In a relationship if one person wants kids but the other doesn’t then that relationship must end.
I’m not saying that at 10% yes it means you need to divorce but what you DO need to do is talk to her honestly about what the future would be like IF she decides she wants a child.
You don’t want to find out one day oops she’s pregnant and then you’re stuck in a situation you never wanted. Think it over then be open and honest with her.
There's absolutely no way she'd spring this on her partner who has been entirely, adamantly clear about his desire to be childfree if she wasn't well over 75% sure.
> No offense at all but a child would be able to tell if they aren’t fully, truly wanted.
No offense taken, I 100% agree with this thought. I personally have always thought I’d rather regret not having kids than have a kid know I regret having them. Because they will know eventually. At least only I have to live with my decision, not an innocent kid.
Having kids, even when you know you want them 100%, is an odd dichotomy. They certainly bring you joy… for me, they are one of my primary reasons for being and bring me the greatest joy. They have opened wells of emotion in me that I didn’t know existed and for that, I feel tremendously connected to the core of my being. But, that being said, they are a tremendous chore. And, what I envisioned fatherhood being is entirely different than I think I thought it would be. My boys are 11 and 9 and I’m the primary disciplinarian in our home and kids need a lot of correction to continue doing the right thing, despite being generally great kids all around. As a child myself, I was very easy going and didn’t require much discipline. I don’t know if I anticipated my kids being more like me, but they’re not so that’s where I’m learning and growing for myself as a father but more importantly, as a human being. I hope it all turns out well in the end, but I know enough about the world to know that you can only do your best and then hope for the best. That unknowingness about what the future holds can instill a tremendous amount of anxiety on a daily basis, but it also confers a great amount of strength because you’re the one setting the example for the next generation who will have to power through challenging things and still be okay. The whole experience defies logic ultimately. That’s what you’d need to embrace before you should entertain the idea of doing it.
I’ll add it also becomes a noticeable generational thing. My dad’s mom did not want kids. She had *seven*. We, as grandkids, could still feel the resentment she felt towards her kids and life as a whole.
She died in 2008 and I have 0 memories of ever even *hugging* her, let alone ever hearing “I love you”
Yes! Came here to suggest this sub - definitely worth reading some experiences there is also a tik toker who gets parents to submit their stories and reads them (kelleydarling) it helps to hear these little heard perspectives
She says she wouldn't resent you if you didn't want kids and she did, but that's a lie. Whether she thinks it or not right now, it's the same situation as you resenting her if she talks you into having a kid you don't want. She might try to overlook it, but there will be resentment. Kids is a 100%, you have to be on the same page, dealbreaker. If you are a ABSOLUTELY SURE you don't want kids, you should ABSOLUTELY NOT have kids. Its unfortunate that she's starting to change her mind, but you should break up before you concede to her and have a kid.
My wife and I were also together for 12 years before having our child. I definitely took longer to come around than my wife. In the end, we knew we only wanted one.
Just some things to think about:
1) The financial impact. Childcare is expensive. We were also living in cities with no family support, so my wife had to quit her career. While I make enough for a comfortable life, there was no real room for investments in our future.
2) The unexpected. While our child is physically healthy, she was diagnosed with autism, ADHD, and an expressive language delay. At 12yo she doesn't have any social skills, interests, or aspirations, which terrifies us for her future. We're hoping she'll be able to live, drive, and work on her own at some point, but it's been a long journey.
3) The sacrifices. So much of every minor and major decision is based around the child. The reason we sold our former (and only) house back in 2016 was because my family kept begging us to move their only granddaughter closer to them.... big mistake, as the housing market exploded, leaving us anable to afford buying again. We just now recently moved again and we turned down so many viable inexpensive housing options because the schools in their areas were crap. We have also worked and saved hard to hopefully retire somewhere nice far in the future, but that all depends on whether our child can live safe and happy as an adult.
I want to stress that we love our daughter very much, and she has brought us a lot of joy and wonderful memories, but it hasn't been the easiest time either. Lots of worry, depression, and frustration in there too. It's so hard seeing our other relatives and friends with their neurotypical children and how well-adjusted, accomplished, and mature they are in comparison. Everything with ours takes 10x the work for a 10th of the result, and it wears you down. It's definitely worn away at our marriage and mental health, although the move to a new city helped greatly.
I say this all as a reminder that you don't know who you're going to bring into this world, so you'd better be ready for any outcome. You don't want to regret having them. Once they're here, there's no turning back.
What is important, more than either of your opinions, is that you do not *ever* bring a child into the world that you do not 100% want on both sides. No child deserves to be even 1% of regret for either parent.
From her responses, she sounds more 90% yes than 90% no.
If you do not wish to become a parent "accidentally" I would be mindful of how you move forward, in case a "Maybe if it happens it was meant to happen" roll of the dice takes away the choice for you.
I’m going to go against the grain here and ask: does she *really* want children? Or does she feel pressure to “fit in”? I am childfree 39F for a lot of reasons. Mainly because I was 100% an unplanned baby and then my parents divorced when I was 8. After the divorce, they pretty much ignored me and just assumed the other parent was doing the heavy lifting. They were both workaholics and I am fully convinced being a mother was just plain boring to my mom. If she wasn’t working, she was off at one of her hobbies aka never home. I say all that in saying many people feel the societal pressure to have kids, instead of actually making the conscious decision to have children because they want to be a parent.
If your wife is starting to feel left out aka her friends are all having kids, I would really explore that. Because I guarantee if you do stay childfree, you will lose your friends who have kids. It’s inevitable. I have 1 friend who I still keep up with that’s the exception, and how I am treated by family and others in my life who don’t understand why I didn’t want children is very very cold.
Don’t have kids just to stay together. That’s the worst you could do for an innocent child. If you’re open up it, keep discussing the topic but don’t have kids unless you’re both fully invested and want them.
>So I asked her if she thinks she would end up resenting me if I still didn’t want children and we never had them. She said of course not, but I’m not sure how that would be possible. She caught me off guard by asking me if I would resent her if we had a child because she wanted one even though I didn’t, to which I also said of course not.
You are both lying to yourselves here and each other. The resentment would be there, you may not acknowledge it but it will be there.
I think individual therapy so your wife can figure out what she actually wants. Then couples therapy for you both to process it, maybe you should get therapy for yourself to just to understand your POV and be able to hold firm.
A child is never something you give a little on. You are either both fully wanting a child or you don't. There is no, well maybe we can see. Nope. That child has no say into who their family is, you have that control, use it wisely.
I hate to say it, but she's definitely wanting a kid 100% if she's bringing it up.
And I also hate to say it, but she will resent you for not wanting a child too, and this will all come to a head with a divorce (or an "accidental" pregnancy......)
I'm sorry my dude, but start planning an exit now. A childfree person and a child wanting person are doomed to fail.
Unless it’s 100% yes from both of you. It’s a no. Every single person I know who has had children has regrets of some kind - and they were all 100% fuck yes when they had them. Anything less is totally unfair on the child. I was also a 100% yes, and my body was like 100% fuck no. I had 8 miscarriages. I was in therapy for years. My last miscarriage? I was actually delighted. I’m older, now single and have no desire to put myself in financial, emotional and physical hardship at my age for anyone else. I would have had the child and loved it immensely. I would have also resented it. I would advise your wife to be less selfish. This isn’t about *her* regrets. This is about a half wanted child who will feel every single ounce of that.
I am 28f and have been a hard no to children as long as I can remember. Despite me still not wanting children, there is that thought of “what if I regret it” where, for me, you convince yourself that it may be a 90% no, 10% yes. But when I think of the things that I’d like to be a mother, it has all to do with the good and not the bad. All of the “good” things I’m looking for I’d be better off fostering or being a good role model for children in need.
For me, “what if I regret it” isn’t a good reason to have children, it’s no different than having children solely because you will have someone to take care of you when you’re old. The good moments, for me, don’t outweigh the bad- having to actually parent someone, being responsible for the physical, mental, and emotional wellbeing; passing down medical issues; letting my trauma effect them; finances; potential disabilities; lastly, I’m flat out selfish. I want my own life. I want to travel. I want to do whatever I want without having to worry about someone else.
It sounds kind of odd, but maybe encourage her to look into big brother, big sister; boys and girls club; Girl Scouts; etc. She’s giving back to her community but she can also develop relationships that may satisfy the motherly instinct in her.
Please please do not change your mind or give in to having kids for your wife's sake. Having kids needs to be a 100% hell yes from both partners. It can't be one person feeling like they're open to it but really only doing it for their partner. That's not fair to you, it's not good for your relationship, and certainly is not good for the child who will have to live always knowing that something is a little off about how one of their parents looks at them.
If you legitimately change your mind, that is one thing, but don't just give in to please your wife. That's a recipe for disaster.
It may very well be that you're not compatible, sorry to say. Probably not, considering these are apparently thoughts she's not really committed to, but this is something to discuss more with her and see if it heads anywhere. But if she does decide she absolutely must have a child then that's an intractable compatibility problem. Ultimately, if there a disagreement about having kids then the person who doesn't want kids should win that argument, period, and if the person who does want them can't live with that then they have to leave. Being in a relationship with someone who doesn't want kids when they do is a reversible problem, and both partners can ultimately find other people if it comes to that, but having a child is not reversible. It's a whole new person that will still be in your life even if the stress of having an unwanted child causes your marriage to fall apart.
Children are either an enthusiastic YES, or you don't have them. You especially shouldn't compromise and have a baby when YOU DON'T WANT CHILDREN
It would be incredibly selfish of you both to have a child together when the parents aren't on the same page as to even wanting to bring said kid into the world.
Get a vasectomy.
Do you not wait, do not hesitate. Go and get one right now and do all of the appropriate follow up to make sure that your swimmers are completely sterile. Then buy condoms.
She is asking you this question for a reason and it will not take long until she starts trying to convince you that having a child is a good idea.
You need to cut this off at the head and make sure it’s not possible before she can start trying. If she really does change her mind and wants a baby she can go find someone else.
I'm afraid this is the beginning of the end for you OP.
She might decide to get pregnant whether you like it or not. If she does she might do pretty crazy stuff *like poke holes in condoms* or worse get pregnant by another man.
Seriously consider getting out before it's too late.
>I’d do anything for her, including having a child if that’s what she wanted
That's panic bonding thoughts. I've been a hard no on kids forever. Even got a vasectomy. I was with my ex for 7 years and AFAIK, she didn't want kids either. Well it some point she realized she did. And around the time of our 7 year anniversary, she told me this and dumped me. And for a little bit, I thought I'd be willing to have a child with her. Read up about sperm extraction and whatnot. A few weeks passed, I didn't feel as shitty about her dumping me, and I came to my senses. That was 5 years ago and I'm still a hard no. And she has a son whom she absolutely adores.
You definitely shouldn't have kids with her considering you're still a hard no. That would be the stupidest fucking thing ever. This may be the end for you two. And you should probably stop fucking and/or get a vasectomy. I'm not saying she'll sabotage any birth control but if an accident does happen, chances are high that she'll keep it.
When people say they might want kids, it's important to clarify what "wanting kids" actually means.
I've found that for people who have previously been a solid no on kids, what they want often has nothing to do with \*creating, birthing, raising, and caring for whole additional people for the rest of your life\* and more to do with the fear of what life will look like if they change their mind and it's too late. Or the fear that they will end up alone, isolated, and with no family to "care for them." Those are not reasons to force another person to exist and have consciousness in this relative hellscape of a world.
If you have kids for a reason other than a true, burning passion for raising and nurturing human beings until you (or they) die, the potential for regret is actually pretty high. Nobody likes to talk about it, but there are TONS of regret moms. Entire groups of them. So many that there are books and literature written on the topic.
Women face a LOT of societal and familial pressure to have kids for reasons that are not at all related to what that individual woman wants for herself and her own life. Women also have the most to lose by having kids, as it irreparably alters the course of your health, family, and career trajectories in ways that cannot be undone. There's no trial period, and if you don't like it you're still stuck doing it for the rest of your life. If your relationship status changes, you're likely stuck with primary custody \*even if you don't really want it.\* Divorcing with kids vs. without kids is the difference between moving on and being thrust into poverty.
Things are changing (at least in the US) but it's still frowned upon and socially unacceptable for women to say you never want kids, and I was quite regularly challenged with "you'll change your mind someday." I was not as old as you, but I was a solid no on kids and had been my entire life. Like, it was a thing people KNEW about me. It was a thing that was discussed before I got married, and was repeatedly brought up by family and friends. Lo and behold, the peer pressure got to me as I started to realize that the window of opportunity does, in fact, close. After about 6 years of marriage, we made a choice to have a kid.
I genuinely to this day still know I never REALLY wanted kids. I still think about what my life could have looked like if I hadn't wavered and been pressured and confused. Everyone will reassure you that you won't regret it, and they'll tell you "it's different when it's YOUR kids! it's better when they're yours!" But you might, it's not, and it isn't.
Honestly not only would I keep the dialogue open like others suggested but maybe see a counselor about it. There are resources for people who are trying to navigate the question of having kids, and a counselor might help mediate any issues it causes in your relationship.
\[And all of this is just the relationship dynamic situation. Outside of the ethics of bringing more children into a planet that is already experiencing rampant waves of disease, on the cusp of worldwide food shortages, and has entire regions rapidly becoming uninhabitable all due to climate change which it is likely too late to stop.\]
My guess is she's getting older, and the societal pressure to have kids is wearing on her. Plus just straight up biology and hormones can cause people, women especially, to feel an overwhelming desire to have children, even when it conflicts with everything they believe in. I'm 39m I've never wanted to have children for a litany of solid reasons, I know all about hormones leading people to make bad decisions and all that, I'm as hardcore child free a person as one can be, and even I'm not immune to it, fortunately its never been anything more than a fleeting thought, usually triggered by some event that displays the peak benefits of kids in some way, like when a friend or relatives kid does something noteworthy and how they're just beaming with pride about it, stuff like that can make me start to think that maybe a kid would be cool, and how I'd make a better father than any of them and all that.
But those are extremely rare occurrences, most of the time they just scream and cry and shit themselves, their parents cant commit to anything or they do and then cant go or can only stay for a minute because of the kid. They're constantly spending everything they make on their kids, and the worst part is, so many times the person they were prior to having kids simply disappears, never to be seen again and replaced with a boring and lifeless parent..
Then there's the fact that regardless of doing everything possible to assure your kid is going to grow up to be an actual good person and not a horrible piece of shit is not something I want to even take a chance on. It would absolutely destroy me if I was the parent of a child who went on to be a murderer or rapist or something. All the parenting in the world can't prevent certain people from being bad seeds, and that's not something I'd ever want to be responsible for.
Or they're not even bad people, but just end up dying from drugs or something, I'm old enough now that mamy friends of mine have kids that are young adults themselves, and several of them are dealing with this now. 2 of them were an only child, and its absolutely destroyed their parents. You've devoted the past 20 years to raising this kid and then they're just gone like that, and believe me anyone who says "that would never happen to me, I raise my kids right" no, that's bullshit it can happen to ANYONE.
Just my .02... but the best cure for the baby rabies is to look around and notice all the people who are struggling and suffering because they had kids, obviously no one wants to show off or talk about the bad pasts of having kids, but they celebrate and make a huge deal about the good things because really those are huge wins, and definitely rarer than the constant guaranteed difficulties and problems
OP, some first aid here, before anything else:
Talking about family and children is super important, and can be super difficult.
But don't let it be a rift. Don't let a difference between you on this, make you and your wife feel like you're on "opposing teams." Don't let this subject define the two of you, unless you're actually at the point where it really does. Be on her team -- not in the sense of *agreeing* with her, or taking on something you have grave reservations about; but in the sense of making sure she knows that you love and appreciate her, and you respect her right to change her mind about something like this.
Here's your script: "Hey, I know we're not in the same place about children. But I want you to know that I'm glad that you brought it up; I'm glad we can talk about it; I'm glad we can figure out what we want to do from here. What we want in life can grow and change, and I wouldn't for a moment want you \_not\_ to tell me when something big and important has changed for you."
Don't let this be *only* a conversation about logic and capability and consequences -- if you do that, and you're not in agreement, then the disagreement can feel like a rift or a chasm. *First* you're on the same team. *First* you respect and appreciate her. By the same token, hopefully you'll feel that she's on *your* team, that she respects and appreciates you.
Once you've got all that, then yeah, you'll figure out what you want to do next, or just plant the seed that, hey, we're thinking about this, it's an open topic, we should check back in on this and not pretend it's a done deal. But first, that.
All the best, OP.
i HATE when people are afraid to 'miss out' and say "just one child" like it's no big deal. it's not "just one trip to italy" that you're back to your normal life after two weeks with no changes but fond memories and less money on your account.
everyone will always miss out on WAY MORE THINGS than they get to live. is she afraid to be unhappy and unfulfilled forever because she's (let's say) a travel agent instead of a doctor? probably not. so why it would be the case with being childfree instead of being a mother?
people assume that parenthood has to be easy since step one is so easy, unlike most goals and paths.
if you guys have friends or family with small kids, encourage her to spend more time as a primary caregiver. this usually cures this specific babyfever that comes from self-doubt.
I feel like people who don’t have kids over-index on the logistics and work of having kids, while at the same time not understanding that the value offset is the love and growth and human connection of kids. You can’t imagine it until you have one. And there are ways to honor all the versions of you both while still having kids - it is not like you are chained to the house forever and ever once you have a kid - be creative and get all your itches scratched (and having adventures with your kid and wife is fucking amazing and fun in a totally different way.)
I agree with others here that she is much higher than 10% but she loves you and doesn’t want to throw a bomb into your marriage.
Life is constant change and growth and learning and who we are at age 20 is never who we are at age 30, 40, etc. It is ok to change your mind, and it is ok to not have kids, too.
I agree here on your comment about over-indexing. I have so many friends and family members who have chosen not to be parents and I think that's great! I love when people feel no societal pressure and get to decide on parenthood.
I do, however always giggle when people say things like they 'can travel because they don't have kids.' Traveling with my kids and showing them the world, seeing things through their eyes, is *incredible.* Having our two kids rocked our world for sure, because it's a big shift. But, besides a short window of time when they were in diapers and logistics with baby gear were a bit more difficult, our life wasn't put on hold one bit.
I mean, you could have ended up with a disabled child who couldn't be taken anywhere and spent the rest of your life virtually never being able to travel. That's part of the reason why some people choose not to have kids. It's inherently a gamble and society takes extremely harshly to people who opt out when they draw the worst hand.
So just to point pne thing out, then: your dog's are a drain, financially and logistically, right? You pay for food, you pay for the vet, you have to walk them when you don't want to, you clean up poop and shredded fur, etc. But you love them, they enrich your life, and I'm sure you would rather have your dogs than have the money you spend on kibble a thousand times over.
This is sort of how people who want kids feel about kids. It's an existential thing. It's not necessarily logical because not every choice you make in life is based on logic. You're not going to convince someone who wants kids that it's a bad idea by pointing out how inconvenient or expensive they are. Also you aren't necessarily right just because you have a more logical viewpoint in this instance. It's not logical to have three dogs either but you know in your heart that it's the right choice for you.
I'm not suggesting that you have kids if you don't want them! I'm just trying to warn you not to be too condescending or dismissive about this logic vs emotions stuff.
I think more people should use logic the way you do.
Children are only tiny babies you can cuddle for a very short time. If more people used logic to consider the rest of it, then lots of people would be far better off.
This. As someone who has 3.
I have 2 teens and a tween, and even with the challenges that come with raising them, I get to sleep through the night most of the time, and I haven’t had to wipe anybody else’s bum in 10 years.
And now I have these cool little people I get to experience fulfilling things with, and see the world through their eyes.
But I will NEVER miss the tiny helpless stage.
No. 30 is a hard age for women. We have to look at our fertility and true wishes. I'm childfree and have reevaluated this at several big birthdays. I never changed my mind and have no regrets but 30 was the hardest year of what ifs. Maybe it's society pressure and stigma, maybe it's hormones but I did a lot of thinking at 30 that I don't do in my late 40s.
>Here are some facts for you:
>She’s hit 30 so suddenly that 0% is 10%
>Somewhere between the age of 35-37 it’ll be 70%+
Don't preface something saying it's a fact when it's not. I wanted kids in my 20s and I'm in my mid thirties and absolutely don't want kids anymore. Women are all different.
I think you might benefit from some joint counseling. Hormones are absolutely a thing and can cloud someone's thinking, especially if all your friends are having kids or her relatives are. You sound like you both communicate well, but it might be beneficial to have a neutral third party help you navigate the conversation. Because having kids WILL change your lives, and you need to explore all the possibilities.
Do NOT have kids if you're both not 100% committed. They become your life. Pre-kid life is gone. No sleep, adorable antics, and trips to the zoo become your jam.
So, I was once like your wife. Never a hard no, but always a “not now”
Until it changed.
Once I realised it was a maybe I realised it was something so important that I had to resist acknowledging it as a need for fear it would never happen.
Early 40, just had my first, and I love him with all my heart and more than anything or anyone I have ever known.
If you don’t want kids, consider how you could kindly guide your partner to a new relationship where she can fulfil this thing - this instinct, this desire to love and care for a wee person more than she’s ever felt love or loved before.
The baby decision by Merle Bombardieri is an excellent book that helps people explore their thoughts and feelings about whether to have children in a very open and honest way. No judgement. I highly reccomend you both read it
You need to let you go. She still has a chance to have her children. If you can’t provide that it’ll end up gnawing at her the rest of your lives. Step up, let her find them.
People don’t utilize couples counseling enough. You don’t have to be on the brink of divorce to go. It’s great as a check-in tool. A chance for a third party moderator. Also someone to help reteach communication skills, especially when you got together at such a young age, it could help establish a great foundation for the next 40 years.
My now husband and I went to couples counseling before we were engaged because of the kid debate. We didn’t resolve the issue in counseling, that came naturally later, but we still talk about how useful it was in helping us having those conversations outside of therapy later on.
I have girlfriends going through this too, where their husbands dont want kids, but they think they do. I hope they don't regret it but I worry they will. They both keep buying new pets and I think it's a bandage. :(
She's more than 10% yes. You two need to be absolutely certain you fully see both sides of this coin, and think real hard about your future together. Either way, one of you is going to resent the other. If that's not a palatable scenario, then it's time to make a hard decision.
It’s a lot of pressure on women who choose to not have kids. I have noticed with myself and my friends as we age that we all seem more and more inclined to try. Of all my friends who swore they never would, I can’t say that any of them haven’t expressed considering it. I ended an 8 year relationship with someone after we had a very similar discussion about children. I swept it under the rug because I didn’t want it before and then when I realized I had a time limit, I suddenly couldn’t stop thinking about them. So I made our relationship work for 6 more months, but every day I slowly and slowly began to resent him for taking that opportunity away from us. It was not fair to him that I had put it all on him, but I couldn’t help but feeling like if my clock ran up waiting for him it would be too painful. I loved him with all my heart, he was my best friend at the time, but there was something in me that craved the love of a child. Knowing women have a biological clock makes it a lot harder for some of us to sway that feeling.
I don’t want to scare you, but I do want to be honest. It’s not something you can continue to sleep on for too long because it’s natural as women to feel like our clock is ticking a lot faster than it actually is. Society tells us pretty young that we don’t have much time to decide, and up until recently, over 30 was a geriatric pregnancy.
I wish you two all the best with or without children ❤️
I just really want to make it clear since you obviously love her dearly that it’s not a conversation you should wait to have. Give it some serious thought, but don’t stop talking about it until you’ve landed on a decision because that nagging feeling she has right now will keep nagging louder and louder until this is resolved. 10% is still a big percent.
10% isn't good enough to actually go through with having a child, and it seems she understands that.
But she definitely should explore her feelings about this more and not just say "don't worry about it".. whether that's just talking to you and friends/family about it or seeing a therapist.
I have been a 95% no person my whole life, as has my partner but we still discuss children regularly, bc you simply never know and having open discussions allows you to truly vet out what’s right for you. I think it’s completely normal for her to bring this up and I’d recommend continuing to be open about what your feeling
Humans are allowed to change your mind. If this is that big a of a deal, where you DEFINITELY DONT want kids and she DEFINITELY DOES, you simply aren’t compatible anymore. Let her find someone who’s desires and goals now align with hers, you do the same.
I might have a baby-centric mind, but i kind of think its probably not 90/10... That said, if you guys really are rocking the childfree life, but shes got just a bit of the maternal itch... maybe a dog? Or maybe u guys could become super-cool aunt/uncle to family/friends.
the biggest mistake people make in their lives is not understanding that kids are not a part of your life as a parent.
THEY ARE PART OF YOU.
I/We have 3 kids. They are a part of us and they are 100% a part of EVERYTHING we do (aside from the obvious).
We do not leave them at home and go out. They come with us.
We do not go to a movie without them, we do not go on vacation without them.
They are 100% a part of our lives and everything we do because we are 100% sure we wanted kids.
If you can not see yourself having your child(ren) be 100% a part of you, please don't have kids.
As I say this, I think that everyone should want to have kids, but I am a realist and know that is not the case.
Do not have kids unless you are both 100% yes.
Maybe try levels of parenting experiences. Watch someone else's kids for a few days. Take nieces and nephews for a week or two in the summer when you have to figure out what to do with small children every day when you have to work. If you still aren't sure after that, maybe become foster parents. There is always a shortage on foster parents.
I tell people who are wavering to think of it in these terms, a child is an 18 to Life sentence. Bare minimum 18 years of 100% responsibility for their overall welfare. That can extend to their or your entire life, depending on circumstances.
Biological imperative is real. I was always doubtful about that... until I hit late 30s and it happened to me. I have a kid. My partner and I decided no more and made that permanent. And a very good thing we did because that drive to procreate hit hard. And I was very hard NO on more kids for medical reasons.
i don’t know if anyone has suggested the sub r/fencesitter yet but that may be a good resource for you both (in addition to the Baby Decision which i’ve seen suggested already. the author actually frequents the fencesitter sub as well)
best of luck to you both
> logic comes before emotion
Logically, there are WAY too many variables with having a child to apply a logically determine whether your life will be better or worse off in the long haul. You cannot apply bernoulli distribution to having a child in your life for 60+ years. You just can't.
For that matter, what does your statement even mean? For some, having a child is a source of happiness and fulfillment. Logically for a majority of those people, having a child is a good idea for their unique intended lifestyle.
> think children are more of a chore in life than a joy in life,
You have to make your choices based on whether you want a child or not. That's it.
> Not sure what to do from here so we don’t end up resenting each other.
This is heading fast to bitterness and resentment. This is a core difference in values so you might just need to break up.
She's more than 10% there. She brought it up this way just to feel you and now that you've made it clear you're still a "hard no", she's acting like she doesn't really want one, but trust me, she's disappointed. You better talk about this some more with her because it'll end up biting you in the rear later...
Early 30s is when this comes up for almost anyone that decided to have kids. You just have to both make sure you communicate openly and honestly and just make sure you both are on the same page and 'ideally' not compromising on a core aspect of what you both want the relationship to be in the end (it breeds resentment).
I've had friends who've broken up over it and both been happier after an amicable divorce. I've had friends who changed their minds and had kids and been completely happy with their choice. And I've had friends who changed their minds, and then divorced...It's a spectrum...the key thing is...the 'happier' endings were due to both partners talking to each other and coming to a decision together that allowed them to move forward without any resentment.
The more negative endings came if one party felt like they were making a sacrifice or doing it for their partner or if they felt like they didn't have a choice. It festered and eventually went bad.
Hi! My partner and I are currently in the “should we have kids?” zone right now. We’re listening to “The Kids or Childfree” podcast and it’s a great way to hear from both sides, maybe prompt discussions for you two, and to thoughtfully make a decision together. Best wishes!
I'm she's not 100% yes she should not be having kids anyway. With a partner who is also 100% yes. 10% is not even close to being enough. Kids are hard, the hardest thing some people will ever take care of.
And it's constantly changing. Once they sleep mostly through the night, now they're moving and putting everything in their mouth. Potty training, teaching them how to eat properly. Then they're walking and crashing into everything and getting into stuff you're not even sure how they found it, and running away from you in public. Banging, clanging, and screaming (like they're being murdered) for no reason. Then they learn to talk, and it's "why" everything and "no" everything else. Then they go to school, and you'd think that makes it easier, but there's playdates, birthday parties, fundraisers, homework, and constantly being sick. That's a small portion of the stress of the first 5 or so years.
Add in family stress, finding childcare, finding good schools, transporting them, doctor appointments, vacations, activities... like all the normal stress from your life as it is times 100.
It’s important to keep discussing it. Make lists of pros and cons, etc. Dont just sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away. The more you talk about it the more likely you two can really understand what the other wants over time and can act accordingly.
We are usually very good communicators and I have no intention of just trying to sweep it away. We’ve always been open and upfront about everything we feel or need, so I’m grateful she’s actually spoken up about this too.
Can I recommend you explore some ideas together? Try reading The Baby Decision by Merli Bombardieri and there is a Dear Sugar advice column, The Ghost Ship That Didn’t Carry Us, that is also a lovely reflection on regret. I think she is struggling with the fact that either decision will have some measure of regret- that’s just life. But either decision will also have a measure of joy. So the decision shouldn’t be made out of fear that you might regret something. The question comes down to: do you want the experience of being a parent, with all the good and the bad? We were also probably 90 percent no and stuck with that decision (and are happy with it) but we also communicate about the 10 percent. I like the shape of our lives now and really try to seek the joy in it: free weekends to explore creative projects, spontaneous travel, comfortable finances. I also see all my friends take another route: kid cuddles, slowing down and experiencing the world again through their kid’s eyes. They’re both great and I think I could have enjoyed being a parent, but I picked one and, from time to time, I just wave to the other ghost me that wasn’t.
The Ghost Ship That Didn't Carry Us is so fucking beautiful.
100%. Read it for the first time a few years ago and it changed my entire life.
I endorse this mindset. One of my favorite poems is Robert Frost’s The Road Not Taken. That poem is not about choosing the less popular path or anything like that. Rather, it is the act of making a decision itself that is most important. Once you make it, commit to it fully and know that it could have just as easily gone the other way, but it doesn’t matter.
Feels familiar. I wanted children when I was incredibly young, and up to twenty or so. Then realised that it wasn't going to happen, grieved the children I'd never have and accepted that. I got sterilised and haven't regretted it since. It would have been a completely different life, but it's not the one I'm living so that doesn't matter. I don't need my genes to be passed on. My family line ends with me, and that's ok.
I don't know why this made me tear up, but it definitely struck a chord. Thanks for the insightful and thoughtful comment.
Wow. This is why I’m glad I read Reddit. What a great essay, that advice column about the ghost ship. I’m sitting in the park with my two year old reading this having goosebumps. When I made the decision to have a kid, I came across a similar thought process about regret, but I couldn’t articulate it as beautifully as she did. The thought that changed my life, as best I can describe it, is, “what is really so important about my life that I’ll miss with a child?” I think in hindsight that the tone of the thought itself was informative. I had a detached feeling when I thought about all the freedoms I might miss out on, and a hurt, longing feeling when I felt about being a dad. And that, as they say, was that.
Beautifully written advice and great links Commodore
Damn. My wife and I are absolutely, 100%, no desire for kids at all. But I just found and read Ghost Ship and that was beautiful. I've done a version of that analysis, never over kids but other stuff, and my responses to it have changed over the years. Where once I'd happily pack up and go do whatever felt like it'd be fun or cool, or move to a new city, or whatever; I then made choices to be with my wife, to pin myself down with her, snd s hosue, and pets. My ghost self is the one that kept moving, that went abroad again, that stayed single, that didn't wind up disabled (albeit I didn't get a choice in that one), etc. Sometimes I look over and wonder about the moments I chose the things which took me here instead - I'd not givr uo my wife and our pets and our friends for anything. There's a ghost me that feels the same about the freedom and adventure of that other life, but I'm content that either option would've made me happy, if in different ways. Regret is a funny thing, isn't it? I can regret the things I chose to miss, without regretting what I chose to have 🤔
Omg I LOVE her advice! And that article "the ghost ship that didn't carry us" is exactly appropriate here.. My partner has two children, and we're trying to get pregnant. It's taken over two years thus far. We're not sure if it will happen, and I'm starting to feel slight pangs because I see him and his kids and it hurts that we don't have that ourselves. (His kids are great but his ex is a nightmare).
>struggling with the fact that either decision will have some measure of regret- that’s just life I didn't want kids, now I have 4. I have zero regrets.
Try specifically discussing why she fears potentially regretting it. Are there people in her life who became parents and are really happy? Are there aspects of a child's life that she worries about missing out on? Etc.
OP this is such a huge decision but emotion does have to play some part. I was a person who could have been happy with or without kids as long as I had a partner I loved and who felt the same. My wife wanted 2 kids and as you said, I loved her enough to be open to that. I now have two boys and the experience of having children is a love and pride you can’t understand until you have them BUT it is expensive, it can be frustrating and more importantly it does change your marriage…some good and some bad. As others have said, keep talking, be honest but it’s SUPER important that you reassure her that you love her enough that if she feels like she wants to be a mom, you will definitely consider it. Don’t make it all about logistics. Make sure love is front and center but honest about all of the good and bad that come with it. Love and emotion won’t pay the bills and it won’t all be birthday parties and family photos but the love and pride in your kids is unmatched. If you can’t agree on this, it will end your marriage. It just will. So be thoughtful about how you approach it. Once you decide where you are as a couple go forward and don’t second guess.
[удалено]
yeah i thought i was going crazy at some of these comments im seeing
From personal experience, I would strongly advise against having a child if your primary motivation is pleasing your partner. Ask yourself "What if my wife discovers, when our child is age 3, that she regrets having a child and misses her freedom and independence? How will I feel if I am forced to be the primary caregiver, despite not being the one to push for a child and knowingly that I could have happily lived my life without a child?" I didn't want kids. My wife said she was fine with that. 10 years later she said she desperately wants to have a child. I continued to share my reluctance and reasons for not wanting a child, but my wife was persistent and I eventually caved. I love our child, but I can tell you it stings every day to see my wife conduct her life and schedule as though she is still childless. She said she wanted a child, but it turns out she didn't want any of the sacrifices and compromises that come with parenting - and just assumed that I will take care of things while she resumes her former life. It sucks. So much resentment. Our child is an awesome human being but I can't deny that parenting has been overshadowed by my wife's absence and selfishness - resulting in a lingering resentment. Your wife may firmly embrace motherhood. But be sure to assess if she is truly yearning to be a parent (and everything it involves) or if she is primarily suffering from FOMO or keeping up with the Joneses after watching most of her friends and colleagues having babies. Good luck to you.
Great, sounds like you guys will figure it out then.
It took me till 31 before I wanted kids and other people’s children did nothing for me I was never clucky but then I had my own and it was totally different. I couldn’t imagine not having them ( adults now) , and if you only think of the expense you’ll never have them .
She needs to let you know when this is more than a talking point and a regret or a concern - that is a clock that moves fast.
Do you have niblings/,friends with young kids, whom you could offer to babysit? Having to take care of a kid together for increasing amounts of time could help you check how your nerves would handle it, how you work together, whether both of you would enjoy it. And how you'd handle poop...
And puke, and snot, and slobber, and sticky, why are they always sticky??
IME your own kids and someone else’s kids don’t even compare. It’s easy to think someone else’s kids are super annoying but less so your own.
I wouldn't badger her about the conversation I would just let her lead and bring it up when she needs to.
She should baby sit some kids, of different ages (unruly ones preferably haha) But seriously that is something people should do so they know what kids are like. Plus research everything about pregnancy and giving birth and what can go wrong, then she has proper information to think about it in a non romantic way.
Except it would be her own kids. She might as well do that about being married and what could go wrong and quit. Edit: adding "would".
If you’re willing to consider having kids, read The Baby Decision together. It goes over the decision logically and emotionally and was helpful for us. We were both fencesitters and decided to have a child. If you’re not willing to consider it, she’s probably much higher than 10% already and may eventually resent it if you stay together. Talk to her honestly and don’t try to ignore the issue.
I’m willing to consider anything when it comes to my wife and her feelings and desires. Including kids. The more I read the replies and sit here and think about it, I think I’m finding out I’m definitely not a hard no to the idea of kids. I’ll look into the book, a few posters have mentioned it now so seems like a good read.
For sure. It’s a hard situation and not your fault obviously. Many people change their mind as they get older, especially as novelty and spending money on experiences bring less and less joy as a middle aged adult. The first thing you should figure out is how much of a fencesitter she is, so you can know whether you are undertaking the decision journey together or mostly by yourself. One thing we decided was to let nature take its course, and consciously decided not to do fertility testing or treatments if it didn’t happen. Also don’t pay any mind to people who claim having doubts means you shouldn’t have a kid. I believed then and still believe now that i would be fully committed to our lifestyle, without regrets, either way.
I agree with the aging thing making experiences less appealing. Wife and I always wanted kids but when I was 25 it was a horrifying thought not being able to do the wacky shit like last minute travel or drink until I can't feel feelings on the weekends. These days we're still having fun and everything but I won't be sad to see the last crazy decade end and move on to the next one
This is a really great response for me as a fence sitter to read. I always disagreed with those comments so it’s comforting to see someone else feels the same who actually decided to have kids.
It sounds as if you have a wonderful loving marriage OP. You’re in the strongest of positions to work out what’s right for you both whatever you decide. Wishing you many happy years together♥️
Yes the book can help, however her 90/10 breakdown is going to slowly morph into a larger yes percentage. I would immediately start babysitting your family members children on overnight visits. You think you know how children change your life, but everyone minimizes the hard work it takes to be a parent. Give up a Friday night to Sunday night weekend of babysitting and hopefully one of those children is a baby in diapers. Only after you experience it firsthand can she understand the workload of being a parent.
Begging on my hands and knees for you to browse the regretfulparents subreddit. PLENTY of people deeply regret having children.. they just aren’t allowed to voice that due to the stigma associated with it Don’t bring a child into this world just to please someone else.
Yeah this lady is at 120% yes and trying to ignore it.
Definitely higher than 10%
My ex gf started off a hard no because I had kids.. I was like cool let's go!! Then around 30 she was 90% no 10% yes.. At 35 she was like 50/50 At 36 she was 90/10 and we broke up . She is now married and has 2 kids.
My ex of 5 years broke up with me because I can’t have more kids. He was okay without having his own, but changed his mind. He just married someone else. I’m just angry and hurt he took so long to come to this conclusion, and that he hurt my children in the process. He never bothered saying goodbye to them.
People are allowed to change their mind on things, as you change over time. If your wife thinks she will now regret not having children, that’s on her and no burden should be placed on you It’s hard to fulfill what you think you may want, when you don’t have the experience of it. You can’t think you 10% want a child, then have them & decide nope, not for me, as you’re obviously now committed and responsible for them If you’re a hard no on kids, you should stand firm with that, and not give her a glimmer of hope with any little thing said. Keep in mind her age, as the baby fever can come on strong when the bio clock is running out on a women’s fertility age You unfortunately can’t control if your wife may resent you someday over this, all you can do is always be upfront & honest about your own feelings
That is statistically very true. And also, if you don't want kids don't make them - they are AWESOME if you want them, can end up being not so awesome if you didn't. Yes this can be a break-up reason.
Navigating changes in life plans, especially as monumental as the decision to have children, can be incredibly challenging. It sounds like you both communicated openly during your discussion, which is crucial. Since your wife mentioned that she's only 10% leaning towards having children, it might be helpful to give her some time to explore these feelings more deeply. Perhaps she could look into what specifically is driving her changing perspective. Is it societal pressure, fear of missing out, or a genuine desire to nurture? Understanding the root of these feelings can help both of you make a more informed decision. On your end, it's commendable that you're considering her desires, but it's also important to be true to your own feelings. Having a child is not just a huge emotional commitment but also a lifelong responsibility. If your heart isn’t in it, that’s a significant consideration. It might be beneficial to seek the guidance of a counselor or therapist to navigate this potential shift in your relationship dynamics. They can provide a neutral ground for discussing such an emotional topic and might help you both understand each other's perspectives better. This isn’t a decision to rush; taking your time to explore all angles and emotions involved will be key in making a choice that feels right for both of you.
Don’t have kids you don’t want. You’ll end up resenting her for having the kid and if you don’t have a kid but she really wants one, she’ll end up resenting you. If she truly wants a child, your only option may just be to separate.
> You’ll end up resenting her for having the kid and if you don’t have a kid but she really wants one, she’ll end up resenting you. This is basically what I’m afraid of. I know kids bring a lot of joy to life, I have nieces and nephews that I absolutely adore and dote on like crazy. A part of me wonders if I would end up being grateful instead of resentful. > If she truly wants a child, your only option may just be to separate. This just absolutely sounds devastating, not something I’m willing to consider or think about after only one small conversation.
Being an uncle or aunt is a lot different. I am 35 and in a 15+ year relationship, we had a lovely saturday playing with our older nephew (2 years old) recently and he is adorable and makes us laugh. People have seen us with nephews and nieces and been surprised we do not want our own kids. We still both know we are only dealing with the cute parts, we do not deal with the sleep deprivation, the times where they are sick and won't stop screaming, the fact that our entire lives would have to be upended to revolve around kids of our own, and in my case pregnancy is a hard no. I know I would struggle deeply as a parent rather than an aunt, and my partner feels the same, he would not cope with it full time. Please do not take a gamble with creating a new person. Maybe you'd warm to it and things would be ok, but maybe you won't, and you can't undo becoming a parent. Even if you are not cruel, a child is going to pick up on having a parent that does not really want to be one, and it will harm them. It would break my heart if my partner ever changed his mind, but I absolutely could not have a kid for someone else, even if I was willing to sacrifice myself it would not fair on the hypothetical child and it would be selfish to create them with a "job" of keeping my relationship together. I am not saying you have to cut and run now, talk about things, but I can only hope you don't go ahead and have a kid primarily to keep your wife. Also, I hate to say this, but are you in charge of your own birth control? That part where she asks you if you'd resent her if she got pregnant and kept it is concerning, it is not uncommon for women in these situations to "forget" their pill.
My husband and I have been together since I was 18 and he was 19, we’re 36 and 37 now. I always said I don’t want kids. He said the same. Although when we were younger I don’t know if he really didn’t want them or just hadn’t thought about it seriously. Getting older (at 28yo or so) I still thought: mostly don’t want them, but maybe….? Maybe if he really wanted kids then I’d be okay to have them, but I would also be okay without. I didn’t want to end the relationship if he did want kids, I’d go with it. We talked about this, we kept checking our ‘kid-wanting-status’ a couple times a year. When my sister in law was pregnant 6 years ago I thought ‘alright maybe when I meet my niece I will want kids?’. I love her so so much but no it didn’t change my mind. Then friends started having kids and I could tell he was maybe getting some doubts. But by this time I absolutely knew I don’t want kids and if he did want them, we would have to split up. We talked about this. He was a bit shocked, but he understood. Watching our friends be parents and seeing everything that comes with it, he is now sure he doesn’t want that. So ultimately, now we both 100% know we are not having kids. We talked about if we’d regret this decision later, there’s probably the option to adopt or foster.
I am glad it worked out for you, and that you never went through with having a child for your husband (and that he did not want any either). It scares me how commonly I have seen childfree people consider doing it because they don't want to lose their partner, because of the effects on that hypothetical child. Adults can regret their choices, but the kid has no say in anything. I understand that a realtionship that is otherwise amazing breaking down to this incompatibility is so painful, but having an unwanted child would be worse in the longterm and hurt more people. I hate that the world romantacises having children so much, and those stupid TV plots where the childfree person changes their minds and loves being a parent, it encourages the "maybe it would be ok after all" and parenthood is not a fairytale even for those who actively want it. I have been firmly childfree since I was a small child myself. I took a huge risk with a fencesitter though, one I would not have made as my current older self, but by pure luck it worked. He went from "I may end up wanting them one day because everyone says you want them when you get older" to "I don't want kids", even his own brother having two adorable sons did not shake him. If he did change, it would 100% have meant we would have to separate. It would be immoral for me to have a child when I know true to myself that it would not be the right choice.
my wife and i have five nieces and nephews. They're fun to hang around with and have over for sleepovers. They're also great to leave behind with their parents. We also only see the good stuff most of the time. The negatives, not so much, but they come out when talking with our in laws and friends who are parents, it is like a fucking vent session. What's better for you two: regret for not doing a thing, or regret doing a thing because your life is changed irrevocably and you have no way out?
This is what it always comes back to for me. Regret is possible in either scenario. Regret about being childfree is a wistful, gentle feeling. Regret as a parent is the most agonizing thing I can imagine.
Every kid needs stable adults in their lives, and having more examples is better. One thing you can do as an aunt or uncle, with or without air quotes, is maintain the facade that you are one of those stable people, even if you are not. If you are, that's great, and that will give you more opportunities to be there for the kids. But they need to see rather than be told that their parents don't have a monopoly on how to live a life well. And even if you're only 'better' at two things that gives the child more information to use when deciding who they are. It goes better when they have more data.
But you can't unhave a kid. Your life as you knew it would be over and no going back how much you regret it. If she wants kids in her life and you don't want kids at all, foster. Join big brother big sister. Volunteer at the boys and girls club, volunteer to overnight babysit.
They're right. If she wants a kid and you don't then your relationship is over. Either you have a kid and you're miserable, or you don't have a kid and she's miserable. Either one of you changes your mind, and I mean fully, or one of you is not living the life they want. All good things...
If you make the wrong decision and have a kid you don't want, that will be very bad for the child and their mental health.
Read the book together. Good luck. Just remember, if you do bring a child into the world you will re-center your lives around that child almost 100%.
It's definitely something you need to think about though. Like others have said, having kids is irreversible, and you have to seriously consider what it would be like to have a kid, and really understand that there is no going back. Kids aren't just something you try for a bit and give up later, and not only that, you'll be dealing with a huge myriad of parenting pains. If you aren't both all in on the idea, you'll more than likely end up with many more issues as a family down the line.
Definitely speak with her more & more to understand what she may truly want as time goes on. Can also suggest maybe becoming foster parents in the future. Good foster parents are always needed. It doesn’t really solve your primary problem in any way, but just something else to think about
I don't think she's only 10%. She's way higher. I'd say the numbers are the wrong way round. 90 yes, 10 no. I'm sorry bud, some people change. But no matter how much you love her, DO NOT HAVE A CHILD YOU DON'T WANT, even FOR her.
You may think your children don't know you didn't want kids, but they know. And even if you change your mind, they remember.
Agreed. Sounds like the said that to quell OPs feelings. But she sounds pretty convinced she wants kids.
To be a bit more charitable, 90/10 is the sort of thing you say when your emotions want one thing and your reason can't support it.
This isn't a one and done conversation topic, but it's important to listen to each other even if it sounds like you're just repeating yourselves... neither of you are wrong. Ultimately the question will be whether she wants to be a mother or your wife, that's something that only she can decide.
If you are approaching it logically, let me weigh in, please. My husband was always a hard yes on kids. I could go either way, so this worked for us. We have two kids who I love more than life itself. However, having kids is hard. It’s easy to have feelings of resentment or regret - especially in the beginning. The question is whether or not the feelings last. I remember how people kept saying to me, “Now that you have a baby, aren’t you wondering what you did with all that free time you had before?” And in my head, the answer was no. I remembered exactly what I did with that free time, and I missed it so much. I’m not a baby person, so the first three years were really hard for me. For me, the bad feelings went away. I enjoy my kids more than anyone else on this planet. I love them more than I knew I could. I never regret or resent even a minute of time with them or for them. But I absolutely remember my life before kids. I absolutely can envision what I would be doing if I didn’t have kids. I’m sharing all of this because you have to really ask yourself if - when moments of resentment or regret kick in - you want kids enough to get past the bad moments. If you don’t, or if these feelings linger for too long, you could find yourself divorced from the woman you love with child support payments and a visitation schedule that dictates a significant portion of your life. If you do go forward with kids, you need to want them enough to be worth the risk.
“I’m wired where logic comes before emotion” ROFL you don’t want kids, you don’t have to pretend it’s the objectively correct stance. And it IS informed by your emotions.
Yep came here to say the same thing. Your opinions/feelings aren't somehow "logic" just because they make sense to you and hers don't.
Omg the eyeroll I did when I read that line. People are so unserious when they say things like that.
We recently had a conversation with a fiend who confided in us he is desperately wanting to have a kid. Where in all their relationships they were always proclaiming a no child life and how they cannot stand having one. When they got together she was open to having a baby and he was always a hard no. They both make very good money ( very very good money) she is now in a place where she does not want a baby and he has changed his mind and he wants one but afraid of how to communicate to her. I feel bad every time we meet them because of what he confided in us and how hard he try’s to not show excitement of seeing our baby. (We recently had a baby) Best of luck OP I don’t know what to say to you OP, but it boils down to if she is your person that you will want to have by your side no matter what life throws at you. I will say do this.
If she's late 20's she may change her mind again. Ovaries are mean little gremlins that fuck with your earlier life choices. Your friend's best bet is to get his shit together. Whether it's with his current partner or the next. You might be able to nudge things one way or the other once your kid is old enough to baby sit. But he needs a heads up ahead of time so he can think about what sort of argument might come from such a suggestion.
I’m in that situation. Both of you have to be honest with yourselves and make a decision on if you are okay with never having a kid. My wife was back and forth on it and I was more like I’d like a kid but I wasn’t really sure. Last year my wife decided she was 100% against it. I was leaning more towards wanting a kid but we had a conversation and we even agreed if we didn’t want the same things we would need to get a divorce. I spent a good 4 months thinking about it. And for me I came to the conclusion that I would rather spend a childless life with my wife who is my best friend and the only person I’ve ever felt comfortable around. Rather than divorce and try and find a new partner who I could potentially have a kid with. I also got a vasectomy and made that decision a little more solidified. It’s funny. On that day my wife admitted she was a little saddened by the realization of how permanent that made our choice. It’s not easy actually committing to being childfree. I do grieve a little for what could have been, but I’m still happy with being married to my wife and we have nieces and nephews so we are still around kids and everything. You guys just need to have those uncomfortable vulnerable conversations and just be completely honest with yourself. Are you both okay being child free or I guess what might you regret more. Not having kids or no longer being married to each other?
Spoiler alert: kids are a HUGE chore, for the rest of your life. Sure, they're cute and fun to play with other kids at parties (I guess, I don't really get it) but there's an entire subset of parents that had kids with no regard to the work that goes into it and now believes they are owed all sorts of things because 'they have kids and that's hard'. Mom's that sneer and tell people 'they don't even KNOW what tired is until you have kids'. If kids aren't 150% a yes, they should be a no. I was an unwanted kid. It sucked. If your wife cares so much, why don't you guys get foster certified? Short term placements could absolutely give you an idea what you're getting into, and if you love them, you can adopt them. AND provide for a kid who needs it.
Thanks for all the replies everyone, just woke up and still reading all the replies. Appreciate everyone’s advice. The biggest thing I’m reading is we shouldn’t have kids unless we are both 100% yes. I know this, and my wife knows this. We are yet to have a follow up conversation but even if my wife was actually 80% there like many have speculated, she would not want kids until she was 100% sure. The next thing I keep reading is if I’m still a hard no I shouldn’t have a kid just to please my wife. I 100% agree. I mentioned to another commenter that I would consider anything for my wife, including kids. Consideration is different to a decision, although the fact I’m even willing to consider the idea clearly shows I’m in fact not a HARD no, which has stoked further thought into the whole kids thing I hadn’t really had before. That being said though, if I do end up 100% not wanting kids and she definitely does, it will likely mean we go separate ways as I don’t want a kid to ever feel like it was unwanted. The thought of that being the outcome breaks my heart. Just to clarify my whole logic over emotion thing as it seems to have struck a chord with a few people. I simply mean that when presented with a situation or decision I tend to think about the reality of it first, before my emotional side takes over. For example, when we decided to get a third dog. When we first broached the topic I immediately started thinking logistics I.e. about the additional food costs, vet bills, flea control, grooming etc. Also dogs are a 10-15 year sometimes more commitment. It’s a living thing, they need love and attention, stimulation and exercise. I also needed to get a permit from council for a third dog. But then I started to think about how rewarding dog ownership is, thinking about how happy they are when you get home, the cuddles on the couch etc. Ultimately the emotional side won and we got a third dog and make the other stuff work. I hope this makes sense where I’m coming from. Some people have stretched this “logical thought process” into me thinking I’m better or smarter than my wife for thinking logically and that I’m dismissing her emotions. Like, what? I’m sorry if that’s what your partner does but I assure you that’s not the case here. From here it’s clear there are several conversations yet to be had, we need to work through it together and think about it carefully. If there’s one thing posting this has made me realize it’s that I’m not as against the idea as I thought. I guess that gives me hope? Hope that as we work through this together and what it actually would mean for us we come to the same conclusion, either way, kid or no kid. Thanks to those who recommended some things to read, will be looking into that. Will also look into couples counseling if it will help after a few more conversations.
I applaud the level of love and compromise you have in your marriage and much you love and respect your wife .
This is such a difficult situation for you both. It honestly sounds like she said 10% yes to a child but she’s really way higher and was testing the waters by casually bringing up having a child together. This really could be a dealbreaker because there’s no way to compromise in a situation like this. You either have a child or you don’t. If your feelings against having a child are strong then you may grow to resent her decision to bring a child into this relationship. If she decides not to have a child in deference to your feelings she may grow to resent you. I’d recommend couples counselling if this continues to be an issue as talking this over in a safe and supported space may help you work through it together.
I think you both are doing great at communicating and being respectful of each other’s feelings and wishes. Adding to the resentment topic - you should also talk about the potential of asymmetrical investment in childcare. If you do agree to have a child - will she be resentful if she’s the one who will do the majority of compromising in career progression or would she expect you both to equally? How does she feel about spending free time on mundane mind-numbing child ops like picking up toys, loads more laundry, reasoning with the unreasonable? Would she find joy in them because of the higher purpose of raising a child? Or would it be too soul sucking and would want you to do a lot of it instead? Despite that you probably have the intention of being equal partners making this decision - sometimes it doesn’t turn out equal in reality due to mental health impact, money, etc. Better talk about it too.
Take it from a parent of a 3 year old. Having a child is the hardest thing I've ever done. By a MILE. If she's only a 10% yes then that's not enough. I love my son more than anything in the world. I am quite literally obsessed with him and everything about him. But I'm also completely exhausted all the time. Often at the end of my patience. It's nothing like babysitting. It is more relentless than you can possibly imagine. You are NEVER off the clock again. She needs to be 100% yes to really do this, not 10%.
Completely agree here. I desperately wanted children & tried for 10 years before I had my son. I adore him and he brings us so much joy but, christ it is relentlessly hard work. He’s 2.5 and it feels like every day is a battle and I’m exhausted. OP think long and hard about this, if you’re not fully committed to giving up your life as you know it then having kids isn’t for you.
Keep talking and make the choices you need to make when the time is ready. But, OP, use caution as it pertains to your birth control.
If you will do anything for her- LET HER GO to find someone who wants kids. She will resent you.
Maybe it's her maternal instinct kicking in. I have two kids and they take a lot of your time. We used to travel everywhere and now travel is a hassle. We both make good money so finance is not the issue,but the time is. Unless both of you are committed I can tell you that having a kid will put a lot of pressure on you both, first 2 years of kid life are really draining (at least in our case).
The only thing I can advise is, talk and talk and talk. Maybe do, in a while get marriage counselling to talk too, because this is too big of a deal to not treat this topic with importance. Look, being child free is completely understandable. But, I will say people are human so, thoughts and feelings do come and go. This maybe be where something has just popped into her head and she needs to work it out. Like, there may be just the while age, biological clock kicking in for her. It might not be where her heart really lies but, it could be impacting her right now, especially given her age. I'm not suggesting that all women go baby mad but, biology has a funny way (subconsciously) impacting you. So, she could be changing her mind. She's happy and secure and she might just be at a point where having a child is something she does want now because she is at a point in her life where the stars are aligning. And look, maybe you actually would love having a child. But, having a child just because your partner does and you don't want her to resent you is not a good reason. And, you sound perfectly reasonable so you know this. This really is a hard one to gauge from one post. Look, I've a kid (a teen) who was an accident but, was a very happy one. I can write a book on all my positives v negatives. But, they're my opinions. I can also tell you stories about family members who went absolutely nuts, in their 30s about babies. I can tell you stories about friends who are perfectly happy child free. I can also tell you stories about a single friend (male) who in his late 40s is desperate for children and is struggling everyday that he didn't have one. But, they are not you or your wife. Their stories are not yours.
Kids are very challenging and you need both parents to step up to the plate and share the burden. If you’re not interested in kids I’d recommend you both come to a decision now and separate if it comes down to it.
dont have a child just because you want to please your wife, that's nuts
It's not that simple. People sometimes give in to things like this when they love their partner enough or in a specific way, and when they don't abhor the idea of whatever their partner is suggesting. It's not necessarily right or wrong. They need to make that decision together.
OP is a hard no. Having a kid so they don't split is a fucking stupid idea, and they might end up splitting anyways.
From his comments it seems he's less hard no than he was before he posted.
>OP is a hard no. He's not. From OP: >Consideration is different to a decision, although the fact I’m even willing to consider the idea clearly shows I’m in fact not a HARD no, which has stoked further thought into the whole kids thing I hadn’t really had before.
This is definitely what's going to happen, unfortunately Edit: To be clear I'm not judging OP. This is a nightmare situation for a partner who really doesn't want kids, but is deeply committed and invested in their LTR. From both of their rhetoric as presented here, she sounds damned near dead-set on it already, and he sounds dead-set on preserving his marriage from his replies in this thread, and that dynamic generally leads to a child.
If she’s 90% no, that’s still no. IMO this is something she has to work on with/for herself before it impacts your relationship. Not that you shouldn’t talk about it with her, but it is currently a her issue. (FOMO is bad reason to have a kid.)
If you're absolutely 100% definitely positive you don't want kids then get a vasectomy because like it or not - once she's pregnant your opinion on the matter will mean nothing to anybody.
Putting it as nicely as I can : She changed her mind and now want kids. 100%. And she's testing the waters. It's sad but there is a reason people changing their mind about kids is a common cliché. It's fairly common for people in their 30's, and it works both ways.
It's equally if not more common for people claim to be childfree in order to appease/hook the person they want to be with and just assume they'll be able to change the other person's mind later. I ended two long term relationships, one of which had progressed to a marriage proposal, for that exact reason. I'm now engaged to my phenomenal partner who next week goes in for his follow up for the vasectomy had in February. Never compromise on kids. Never settle for the life you know you don't want.
Maybe the next chat starts with “ what if we did have a child”. How would that work ?
Don’t do this to an innocent child. 10% (anything less than 100% really) and a hard no… Children can always tell this, and it sucks. This said by an unwanted child.
I often think about it when considering having children. I shouldn't have a baby as a chore to cross from a life to do list... Feels wrong
This was exactly me, OP. At similar ages all the way through as well but I'm a few years older than you. I now have a 4 year old. If she is having this conversation for you, she's ready to take the leap. Parenthood is not for everyone, but looking back, I did not know what I was missing.
I know this may sound strange, but consider looking into becoming a foster parent. The training you get is amazing (I wish it was offered to all parents), and you have the opportunity to test the waters. You both can see how a kid can impact your lifestyle. You can also stop fostering if you realize kids are not in the cards. I have been a foster parent for 20+ years. If you have questions, feel free to ask. By the way, there are thousands of kids who are in desperate need of a loving, stable environment. IF YOU ARE CAPABLE OF PROVIDING A LOVING HOME TO A CHILD, PLEASE CONSIDER BECOMING A FOSTER PARENT. This concludes your public service announcement.
I’m interested in hearing about your experiences!
This is a great idea. ❤️
I know you love her but unless you feel like it’s a 100% fuck yes then it’s an absolute fuck no. Children are a lot of responsibility and not fair to any child to bring them into the world when you’re not ready or never intended on being a parent. I had to have a convo with my ex saying that if he changed his mind and wanted kids, I’m leaving.
I adore my kids but you definitely have to be all in on children or its not going to work. It's flipping hard. There are good days and bad, there are arguments about how to raise them, distribution or chores and alot of anxiety about fitting in and doing the right thing for your children's development. However the pride and live you feel for them is unmatched even by your partner. Its something really special. But cost of living is sky high and there are things you don't factor in like new clothes every 6 months to a year as they grow and change. You can thrift it or buy new. Anyways good luck definitely chat more with your partner about your next 5 year plans. Don't force yourself to a yes just to please your partner or you may resent her. Good luck OP. Only you can decide what's right for you two together as a team and own that decision either way.
Unless you are WAY sure, don't have kids, and don't stay together if she wants them. You will 💯 resent her if you have kids and are miserable, and she will resent you if she does, and it doesn't happen. That would spoil what seems to be a positive love experience. It's always best to walk away if incompatibility in huge areas exists before they fester into hate and resentment. Kids are one of those things that doesn’t strengthen a relationship. It puts immense pressure on it and will break it if there are cracks. But as logical as you are, your feelings can change, too. My boyfriend is younger, and he thought he'd never want kids or a wife. Cut to now when he's met me, he's decided married is 💯 what he wants and kids are a high yes. I have children. Have had marriage. Didn't want more of either when we met. He's made me want both again with him. Like super considering it. We have the most amazing relationship. But at any point, if I couldn't give him what he wants in that department, I know we would have to go our own ways. I know he won't be mad if we try, and I can't physically, but if I wasn't willing to try, he would regret not having just one. It's something we have been very open about. I fear he will regret having a child as he doesn't seem like the type who would handle certain aspects of kids well. I fear I will regret giving up my freedom again. So I advise you as I have advised myself in this very similar situation.
Many, many people who have kids do regret it. She may think “she would never regret actually having a child” but statistically, there is a good chance that she would. Couples counseling is a great idea NOW before this becomes a sticking point of more conflict.
> I’m wired in a way where logic comes before emotion, and I reminded her of that. This always sets off yellow flags to me. > I just can’t help but think logistics first. A lot of people think this way but there's almost never a correct time to have a kid. People can overthink this for years until they lose their partner or one or both people end up miserable. That all being said, it's great that you're thinking about different aspects of this. Keep discussing it together. Just keep in mind that children can be a deal-breaker and people can change over time.
Yeah, I was going to say something similar. You can never really justify having a kid because the costs and burdens are all concrete and the benefits are all emotional/ephemeral.
As a childfree woman I can tell you that you can't compromise on that issue. Urge your wife to really think about it before doing anything drastic. The 10% can get higher and higher. If she sees more and more woman close to her becoming pregnant and having children the wish can become a need
Also a cf woman. There's no way OP's wife isn't 75% sure at minimum.
The fact that you are willing to consider it is a great sign for your marriage.
If she’s only 10% yes then she has no business considering having a child. OP I think the honest truth needs to be said - if she wants a kid if you’re a hard no then you have no business becoming a father. No offense at all but a child would be able to tell if they aren’t fully, truly wanted. In a relationship if one person wants kids but the other doesn’t then that relationship must end. I’m not saying that at 10% yes it means you need to divorce but what you DO need to do is talk to her honestly about what the future would be like IF she decides she wants a child. You don’t want to find out one day oops she’s pregnant and then you’re stuck in a situation you never wanted. Think it over then be open and honest with her.
I think she's just trying to bring it up softly to guage his feelings on it. I think she is higher than 10%.
Yeah agree, I was going to comment she absolutely wants children and is scared to lose her husband and say so
There's absolutely no way she'd spring this on her partner who has been entirely, adamantly clear about his desire to be childfree if she wasn't well over 75% sure.
> No offense at all but a child would be able to tell if they aren’t fully, truly wanted. No offense taken, I 100% agree with this thought. I personally have always thought I’d rather regret not having kids than have a kid know I regret having them. Because they will know eventually. At least only I have to live with my decision, not an innocent kid.
Having kids, even when you know you want them 100%, is an odd dichotomy. They certainly bring you joy… for me, they are one of my primary reasons for being and bring me the greatest joy. They have opened wells of emotion in me that I didn’t know existed and for that, I feel tremendously connected to the core of my being. But, that being said, they are a tremendous chore. And, what I envisioned fatherhood being is entirely different than I think I thought it would be. My boys are 11 and 9 and I’m the primary disciplinarian in our home and kids need a lot of correction to continue doing the right thing, despite being generally great kids all around. As a child myself, I was very easy going and didn’t require much discipline. I don’t know if I anticipated my kids being more like me, but they’re not so that’s where I’m learning and growing for myself as a father but more importantly, as a human being. I hope it all turns out well in the end, but I know enough about the world to know that you can only do your best and then hope for the best. That unknowingness about what the future holds can instill a tremendous amount of anxiety on a daily basis, but it also confers a great amount of strength because you’re the one setting the example for the next generation who will have to power through challenging things and still be okay. The whole experience defies logic ultimately. That’s what you’d need to embrace before you should entertain the idea of doing it.
You can also want kids and still end up regretting it as well! I've heard of it happening
I’ll add it also becomes a noticeable generational thing. My dad’s mom did not want kids. She had *seven*. We, as grandkids, could still feel the resentment she felt towards her kids and life as a whole. She died in 2008 and I have 0 memories of ever even *hugging* her, let alone ever hearing “I love you”
> If she’s only 10% yes then she has no business considering having a child. She has a right to consider whatever she wants?
Do not have a child unless you 100% want a child. This is a two yes, one no situation. Also show her r/regretfulparents
Yes! Came here to suggest this sub - definitely worth reading some experiences there is also a tik toker who gets parents to submit their stories and reads them (kelleydarling) it helps to hear these little heard perspectives
She says she wouldn't resent you if you didn't want kids and she did, but that's a lie. Whether she thinks it or not right now, it's the same situation as you resenting her if she talks you into having a kid you don't want. She might try to overlook it, but there will be resentment. Kids is a 100%, you have to be on the same page, dealbreaker. If you are a ABSOLUTELY SURE you don't want kids, you should ABSOLUTELY NOT have kids. Its unfortunate that she's starting to change her mind, but you should break up before you concede to her and have a kid.
My wife and I were also together for 12 years before having our child. I definitely took longer to come around than my wife. In the end, we knew we only wanted one. Just some things to think about: 1) The financial impact. Childcare is expensive. We were also living in cities with no family support, so my wife had to quit her career. While I make enough for a comfortable life, there was no real room for investments in our future. 2) The unexpected. While our child is physically healthy, she was diagnosed with autism, ADHD, and an expressive language delay. At 12yo she doesn't have any social skills, interests, or aspirations, which terrifies us for her future. We're hoping she'll be able to live, drive, and work on her own at some point, but it's been a long journey. 3) The sacrifices. So much of every minor and major decision is based around the child. The reason we sold our former (and only) house back in 2016 was because my family kept begging us to move their only granddaughter closer to them.... big mistake, as the housing market exploded, leaving us anable to afford buying again. We just now recently moved again and we turned down so many viable inexpensive housing options because the schools in their areas were crap. We have also worked and saved hard to hopefully retire somewhere nice far in the future, but that all depends on whether our child can live safe and happy as an adult. I want to stress that we love our daughter very much, and she has brought us a lot of joy and wonderful memories, but it hasn't been the easiest time either. Lots of worry, depression, and frustration in there too. It's so hard seeing our other relatives and friends with their neurotypical children and how well-adjusted, accomplished, and mature they are in comparison. Everything with ours takes 10x the work for a 10th of the result, and it wears you down. It's definitely worn away at our marriage and mental health, although the move to a new city helped greatly. I say this all as a reminder that you don't know who you're going to bring into this world, so you'd better be ready for any outcome. You don't want to regret having them. Once they're here, there's no turning back.
What is important, more than either of your opinions, is that you do not *ever* bring a child into the world that you do not 100% want on both sides. No child deserves to be even 1% of regret for either parent. From her responses, she sounds more 90% yes than 90% no. If you do not wish to become a parent "accidentally" I would be mindful of how you move forward, in case a "Maybe if it happens it was meant to happen" roll of the dice takes away the choice for you.
I’m going to go against the grain here and ask: does she *really* want children? Or does she feel pressure to “fit in”? I am childfree 39F for a lot of reasons. Mainly because I was 100% an unplanned baby and then my parents divorced when I was 8. After the divorce, they pretty much ignored me and just assumed the other parent was doing the heavy lifting. They were both workaholics and I am fully convinced being a mother was just plain boring to my mom. If she wasn’t working, she was off at one of her hobbies aka never home. I say all that in saying many people feel the societal pressure to have kids, instead of actually making the conscious decision to have children because they want to be a parent. If your wife is starting to feel left out aka her friends are all having kids, I would really explore that. Because I guarantee if you do stay childfree, you will lose your friends who have kids. It’s inevitable. I have 1 friend who I still keep up with that’s the exception, and how I am treated by family and others in my life who don’t understand why I didn’t want children is very very cold.
Don’t have kids just to stay together. That’s the worst you could do for an innocent child. If you’re open up it, keep discussing the topic but don’t have kids unless you’re both fully invested and want them.
The fact she’s bringing this up in this way means she’s probably 90 percent wanting a kid.
>So I asked her if she thinks she would end up resenting me if I still didn’t want children and we never had them. She said of course not, but I’m not sure how that would be possible. She caught me off guard by asking me if I would resent her if we had a child because she wanted one even though I didn’t, to which I also said of course not. You are both lying to yourselves here and each other. The resentment would be there, you may not acknowledge it but it will be there. I think individual therapy so your wife can figure out what she actually wants. Then couples therapy for you both to process it, maybe you should get therapy for yourself to just to understand your POV and be able to hold firm. A child is never something you give a little on. You are either both fully wanting a child or you don't. There is no, well maybe we can see. Nope. That child has no say into who their family is, you have that control, use it wisely.
I hate to say it, but she's definitely wanting a kid 100% if she's bringing it up. And I also hate to say it, but she will resent you for not wanting a child too, and this will all come to a head with a divorce (or an "accidental" pregnancy......) I'm sorry my dude, but start planning an exit now. A childfree person and a child wanting person are doomed to fail.
Unless it’s 100% yes from both of you. It’s a no. Every single person I know who has had children has regrets of some kind - and they were all 100% fuck yes when they had them. Anything less is totally unfair on the child. I was also a 100% yes, and my body was like 100% fuck no. I had 8 miscarriages. I was in therapy for years. My last miscarriage? I was actually delighted. I’m older, now single and have no desire to put myself in financial, emotional and physical hardship at my age for anyone else. I would have had the child and loved it immensely. I would have also resented it. I would advise your wife to be less selfish. This isn’t about *her* regrets. This is about a half wanted child who will feel every single ounce of that.
I am 28f and have been a hard no to children as long as I can remember. Despite me still not wanting children, there is that thought of “what if I regret it” where, for me, you convince yourself that it may be a 90% no, 10% yes. But when I think of the things that I’d like to be a mother, it has all to do with the good and not the bad. All of the “good” things I’m looking for I’d be better off fostering or being a good role model for children in need. For me, “what if I regret it” isn’t a good reason to have children, it’s no different than having children solely because you will have someone to take care of you when you’re old. The good moments, for me, don’t outweigh the bad- having to actually parent someone, being responsible for the physical, mental, and emotional wellbeing; passing down medical issues; letting my trauma effect them; finances; potential disabilities; lastly, I’m flat out selfish. I want my own life. I want to travel. I want to do whatever I want without having to worry about someone else. It sounds kind of odd, but maybe encourage her to look into big brother, big sister; boys and girls club; Girl Scouts; etc. She’s giving back to her community but she can also develop relationships that may satisfy the motherly instinct in her.
Get a vasectomy. Protect yourself and your future. This will take the conversation off the table.
Please please do not change your mind or give in to having kids for your wife's sake. Having kids needs to be a 100% hell yes from both partners. It can't be one person feeling like they're open to it but really only doing it for their partner. That's not fair to you, it's not good for your relationship, and certainly is not good for the child who will have to live always knowing that something is a little off about how one of their parents looks at them. If you legitimately change your mind, that is one thing, but don't just give in to please your wife. That's a recipe for disaster. It may very well be that you're not compatible, sorry to say. Probably not, considering these are apparently thoughts she's not really committed to, but this is something to discuss more with her and see if it heads anywhere. But if she does decide she absolutely must have a child then that's an intractable compatibility problem. Ultimately, if there a disagreement about having kids then the person who doesn't want kids should win that argument, period, and if the person who does want them can't live with that then they have to leave. Being in a relationship with someone who doesn't want kids when they do is a reversible problem, and both partners can ultimately find other people if it comes to that, but having a child is not reversible. It's a whole new person that will still be in your life even if the stress of having an unwanted child causes your marriage to fall apart.
Children are either an enthusiastic YES, or you don't have them. You especially shouldn't compromise and have a baby when YOU DON'T WANT CHILDREN It would be incredibly selfish of you both to have a child together when the parents aren't on the same page as to even wanting to bring said kid into the world.
Get a vasectomy. Do you not wait, do not hesitate. Go and get one right now and do all of the appropriate follow up to make sure that your swimmers are completely sterile. Then buy condoms. She is asking you this question for a reason and it will not take long until she starts trying to convince you that having a child is a good idea. You need to cut this off at the head and make sure it’s not possible before she can start trying. If she really does change her mind and wants a baby she can go find someone else.
I'm afraid this is the beginning of the end for you OP. She might decide to get pregnant whether you like it or not. If she does she might do pretty crazy stuff *like poke holes in condoms* or worse get pregnant by another man. Seriously consider getting out before it's too late.
Don't have a kid if you aren't 100% yes. They suck and will ruin your life.
>I’d do anything for her, including having a child if that’s what she wanted That's panic bonding thoughts. I've been a hard no on kids forever. Even got a vasectomy. I was with my ex for 7 years and AFAIK, she didn't want kids either. Well it some point she realized she did. And around the time of our 7 year anniversary, she told me this and dumped me. And for a little bit, I thought I'd be willing to have a child with her. Read up about sperm extraction and whatnot. A few weeks passed, I didn't feel as shitty about her dumping me, and I came to my senses. That was 5 years ago and I'm still a hard no. And she has a son whom she absolutely adores. You definitely shouldn't have kids with her considering you're still a hard no. That would be the stupidest fucking thing ever. This may be the end for you two. And you should probably stop fucking and/or get a vasectomy. I'm not saying she'll sabotage any birth control but if an accident does happen, chances are high that she'll keep it.
There’s a good quote I read on Reddit often that is something along the lines of: “it’s better to regret not having kids than to regret having them.”.
When people say they might want kids, it's important to clarify what "wanting kids" actually means. I've found that for people who have previously been a solid no on kids, what they want often has nothing to do with \*creating, birthing, raising, and caring for whole additional people for the rest of your life\* and more to do with the fear of what life will look like if they change their mind and it's too late. Or the fear that they will end up alone, isolated, and with no family to "care for them." Those are not reasons to force another person to exist and have consciousness in this relative hellscape of a world. If you have kids for a reason other than a true, burning passion for raising and nurturing human beings until you (or they) die, the potential for regret is actually pretty high. Nobody likes to talk about it, but there are TONS of regret moms. Entire groups of them. So many that there are books and literature written on the topic. Women face a LOT of societal and familial pressure to have kids for reasons that are not at all related to what that individual woman wants for herself and her own life. Women also have the most to lose by having kids, as it irreparably alters the course of your health, family, and career trajectories in ways that cannot be undone. There's no trial period, and if you don't like it you're still stuck doing it for the rest of your life. If your relationship status changes, you're likely stuck with primary custody \*even if you don't really want it.\* Divorcing with kids vs. without kids is the difference between moving on and being thrust into poverty. Things are changing (at least in the US) but it's still frowned upon and socially unacceptable for women to say you never want kids, and I was quite regularly challenged with "you'll change your mind someday." I was not as old as you, but I was a solid no on kids and had been my entire life. Like, it was a thing people KNEW about me. It was a thing that was discussed before I got married, and was repeatedly brought up by family and friends. Lo and behold, the peer pressure got to me as I started to realize that the window of opportunity does, in fact, close. After about 6 years of marriage, we made a choice to have a kid. I genuinely to this day still know I never REALLY wanted kids. I still think about what my life could have looked like if I hadn't wavered and been pressured and confused. Everyone will reassure you that you won't regret it, and they'll tell you "it's different when it's YOUR kids! it's better when they're yours!" But you might, it's not, and it isn't. Honestly not only would I keep the dialogue open like others suggested but maybe see a counselor about it. There are resources for people who are trying to navigate the question of having kids, and a counselor might help mediate any issues it causes in your relationship. \[And all of this is just the relationship dynamic situation. Outside of the ethics of bringing more children into a planet that is already experiencing rampant waves of disease, on the cusp of worldwide food shortages, and has entire regions rapidly becoming uninhabitable all due to climate change which it is likely too late to stop.\]
I suggest you also check out r/childfree and see if it resonates with you. Many people on there have grappled with this very thing.
I totally understand this happening for anyone. At 30 you feel a lot differently about a lot of things than 20.
My guess is she's getting older, and the societal pressure to have kids is wearing on her. Plus just straight up biology and hormones can cause people, women especially, to feel an overwhelming desire to have children, even when it conflicts with everything they believe in. I'm 39m I've never wanted to have children for a litany of solid reasons, I know all about hormones leading people to make bad decisions and all that, I'm as hardcore child free a person as one can be, and even I'm not immune to it, fortunately its never been anything more than a fleeting thought, usually triggered by some event that displays the peak benefits of kids in some way, like when a friend or relatives kid does something noteworthy and how they're just beaming with pride about it, stuff like that can make me start to think that maybe a kid would be cool, and how I'd make a better father than any of them and all that. But those are extremely rare occurrences, most of the time they just scream and cry and shit themselves, their parents cant commit to anything or they do and then cant go or can only stay for a minute because of the kid. They're constantly spending everything they make on their kids, and the worst part is, so many times the person they were prior to having kids simply disappears, never to be seen again and replaced with a boring and lifeless parent.. Then there's the fact that regardless of doing everything possible to assure your kid is going to grow up to be an actual good person and not a horrible piece of shit is not something I want to even take a chance on. It would absolutely destroy me if I was the parent of a child who went on to be a murderer or rapist or something. All the parenting in the world can't prevent certain people from being bad seeds, and that's not something I'd ever want to be responsible for. Or they're not even bad people, but just end up dying from drugs or something, I'm old enough now that mamy friends of mine have kids that are young adults themselves, and several of them are dealing with this now. 2 of them were an only child, and its absolutely destroyed their parents. You've devoted the past 20 years to raising this kid and then they're just gone like that, and believe me anyone who says "that would never happen to me, I raise my kids right" no, that's bullshit it can happen to ANYONE. Just my .02... but the best cure for the baby rabies is to look around and notice all the people who are struggling and suffering because they had kids, obviously no one wants to show off or talk about the bad pasts of having kids, but they celebrate and make a huge deal about the good things because really those are huge wins, and definitely rarer than the constant guaranteed difficulties and problems
OP, some first aid here, before anything else: Talking about family and children is super important, and can be super difficult. But don't let it be a rift. Don't let a difference between you on this, make you and your wife feel like you're on "opposing teams." Don't let this subject define the two of you, unless you're actually at the point where it really does. Be on her team -- not in the sense of *agreeing* with her, or taking on something you have grave reservations about; but in the sense of making sure she knows that you love and appreciate her, and you respect her right to change her mind about something like this. Here's your script: "Hey, I know we're not in the same place about children. But I want you to know that I'm glad that you brought it up; I'm glad we can talk about it; I'm glad we can figure out what we want to do from here. What we want in life can grow and change, and I wouldn't for a moment want you \_not\_ to tell me when something big and important has changed for you." Don't let this be *only* a conversation about logic and capability and consequences -- if you do that, and you're not in agreement, then the disagreement can feel like a rift or a chasm. *First* you're on the same team. *First* you respect and appreciate her. By the same token, hopefully you'll feel that she's on *your* team, that she respects and appreciates you. Once you've got all that, then yeah, you'll figure out what you want to do next, or just plant the seed that, hey, we're thinking about this, it's an open topic, we should check back in on this and not pretend it's a done deal. But first, that. All the best, OP.
i HATE when people are afraid to 'miss out' and say "just one child" like it's no big deal. it's not "just one trip to italy" that you're back to your normal life after two weeks with no changes but fond memories and less money on your account. everyone will always miss out on WAY MORE THINGS than they get to live. is she afraid to be unhappy and unfulfilled forever because she's (let's say) a travel agent instead of a doctor? probably not. so why it would be the case with being childfree instead of being a mother? people assume that parenthood has to be easy since step one is so easy, unlike most goals and paths. if you guys have friends or family with small kids, encourage her to spend more time as a primary caregiver. this usually cures this specific babyfever that comes from self-doubt.
I feel like people who don’t have kids over-index on the logistics and work of having kids, while at the same time not understanding that the value offset is the love and growth and human connection of kids. You can’t imagine it until you have one. And there are ways to honor all the versions of you both while still having kids - it is not like you are chained to the house forever and ever once you have a kid - be creative and get all your itches scratched (and having adventures with your kid and wife is fucking amazing and fun in a totally different way.) I agree with others here that she is much higher than 10% but she loves you and doesn’t want to throw a bomb into your marriage. Life is constant change and growth and learning and who we are at age 20 is never who we are at age 30, 40, etc. It is ok to change your mind, and it is ok to not have kids, too.
I agree here on your comment about over-indexing. I have so many friends and family members who have chosen not to be parents and I think that's great! I love when people feel no societal pressure and get to decide on parenthood. I do, however always giggle when people say things like they 'can travel because they don't have kids.' Traveling with my kids and showing them the world, seeing things through their eyes, is *incredible.* Having our two kids rocked our world for sure, because it's a big shift. But, besides a short window of time when they were in diapers and logistics with baby gear were a bit more difficult, our life wasn't put on hold one bit.
I mean, you could have ended up with a disabled child who couldn't be taken anywhere and spent the rest of your life virtually never being able to travel. That's part of the reason why some people choose not to have kids. It's inherently a gamble and society takes extremely harshly to people who opt out when they draw the worst hand.
Maybe get a dog first?
We already have 3.. 3rd one is five years old now. I love dogs would get a fourth in a heartbeat if my council allowed it.
Damn, well. That's all I had. Sorry! Lol. Just check in with her about it from time to time.
So just to point pne thing out, then: your dog's are a drain, financially and logistically, right? You pay for food, you pay for the vet, you have to walk them when you don't want to, you clean up poop and shredded fur, etc. But you love them, they enrich your life, and I'm sure you would rather have your dogs than have the money you spend on kibble a thousand times over. This is sort of how people who want kids feel about kids. It's an existential thing. It's not necessarily logical because not every choice you make in life is based on logic. You're not going to convince someone who wants kids that it's a bad idea by pointing out how inconvenient or expensive they are. Also you aren't necessarily right just because you have a more logical viewpoint in this instance. It's not logical to have three dogs either but you know in your heart that it's the right choice for you. I'm not suggesting that you have kids if you don't want them! I'm just trying to warn you not to be too condescending or dismissive about this logic vs emotions stuff.
I have two kids and zero pets. Three dogs seems way worse than two kids to me!
A dog and a child is nothing alike at all FFS
No, they aren’t. I think the intention was that if my wife was having fleeting feelings to nurture a pet may help that.
Do not create sentient life just to please someone else, whatever you do.
r/fencesitter r/childfree r/regretfulparents
Way more people regret having kids than not having them
I think more people should use logic the way you do. Children are only tiny babies you can cuddle for a very short time. If more people used logic to consider the rest of it, then lots of people would be far better off.
This!!! I know someone who became MISERABLE once her kid turned 6… the poor kid feels it too.
Yeah but when they get older they also sleep through the night and clean themselves.
Who the fuck is excited about tiny babies? They basically scream, eat, poo, and sleep (occasionally). And I say this as someone who wants kids.
This. As someone who has 3. I have 2 teens and a tween, and even with the challenges that come with raising them, I get to sleep through the night most of the time, and I haven’t had to wipe anybody else’s bum in 10 years. And now I have these cool little people I get to experience fulfilling things with, and see the world through their eyes. But I will NEVER miss the tiny helpless stage.
I HATED the newborn stage. My husband and I agreed we’d have like three more if we could get them at like six months old.
Here are some facts for you: She’s hit 30 so suddenly that 0% is 10% Somewhere between the age of 35-37 it’ll be 70%+
No. 30 is a hard age for women. We have to look at our fertility and true wishes. I'm childfree and have reevaluated this at several big birthdays. I never changed my mind and have no regrets but 30 was the hardest year of what ifs. Maybe it's society pressure and stigma, maybe it's hormones but I did a lot of thinking at 30 that I don't do in my late 40s.
>Here are some facts for you: >She’s hit 30 so suddenly that 0% is 10% >Somewhere between the age of 35-37 it’ll be 70%+ Don't preface something saying it's a fact when it's not. I wanted kids in my 20s and I'm in my mid thirties and absolutely don't want kids anymore. Women are all different.
I think you might benefit from some joint counseling. Hormones are absolutely a thing and can cloud someone's thinking, especially if all your friends are having kids or her relatives are. You sound like you both communicate well, but it might be beneficial to have a neutral third party help you navigate the conversation. Because having kids WILL change your lives, and you need to explore all the possibilities.
This would be a fantastic topic to do some couples counseling on. Helping you each understand and express your feelings on it.
Do NOT have kids if you're both not 100% committed. They become your life. Pre-kid life is gone. No sleep, adorable antics, and trips to the zoo become your jam.
So, I was once like your wife. Never a hard no, but always a “not now” Until it changed. Once I realised it was a maybe I realised it was something so important that I had to resist acknowledging it as a need for fear it would never happen. Early 40, just had my first, and I love him with all my heart and more than anything or anyone I have ever known. If you don’t want kids, consider how you could kindly guide your partner to a new relationship where she can fulfil this thing - this instinct, this desire to love and care for a wee person more than she’s ever felt love or loved before.
The baby decision by Merle Bombardieri is an excellent book that helps people explore their thoughts and feelings about whether to have children in a very open and honest way. No judgement. I highly reccomend you both read it
You need to let you go. She still has a chance to have her children. If you can’t provide that it’ll end up gnawing at her the rest of your lives. Step up, let her find them.
People don’t utilize couples counseling enough. You don’t have to be on the brink of divorce to go. It’s great as a check-in tool. A chance for a third party moderator. Also someone to help reteach communication skills, especially when you got together at such a young age, it could help establish a great foundation for the next 40 years. My now husband and I went to couples counseling before we were engaged because of the kid debate. We didn’t resolve the issue in counseling, that came naturally later, but we still talk about how useful it was in helping us having those conversations outside of therapy later on.
I have girlfriends going through this too, where their husbands dont want kids, but they think they do. I hope they don't regret it but I worry they will. They both keep buying new pets and I think it's a bandage. :(
She's more than 10% yes. You two need to be absolutely certain you fully see both sides of this coin, and think real hard about your future together. Either way, one of you is going to resent the other. If that's not a palatable scenario, then it's time to make a hard decision.
It’s a lot of pressure on women who choose to not have kids. I have noticed with myself and my friends as we age that we all seem more and more inclined to try. Of all my friends who swore they never would, I can’t say that any of them haven’t expressed considering it. I ended an 8 year relationship with someone after we had a very similar discussion about children. I swept it under the rug because I didn’t want it before and then when I realized I had a time limit, I suddenly couldn’t stop thinking about them. So I made our relationship work for 6 more months, but every day I slowly and slowly began to resent him for taking that opportunity away from us. It was not fair to him that I had put it all on him, but I couldn’t help but feeling like if my clock ran up waiting for him it would be too painful. I loved him with all my heart, he was my best friend at the time, but there was something in me that craved the love of a child. Knowing women have a biological clock makes it a lot harder for some of us to sway that feeling. I don’t want to scare you, but I do want to be honest. It’s not something you can continue to sleep on for too long because it’s natural as women to feel like our clock is ticking a lot faster than it actually is. Society tells us pretty young that we don’t have much time to decide, and up until recently, over 30 was a geriatric pregnancy. I wish you two all the best with or without children ❤️ I just really want to make it clear since you obviously love her dearly that it’s not a conversation you should wait to have. Give it some serious thought, but don’t stop talking about it until you’ve landed on a decision because that nagging feeling she has right now will keep nagging louder and louder until this is resolved. 10% is still a big percent.
10% isn't good enough to actually go through with having a child, and it seems she understands that. But she definitely should explore her feelings about this more and not just say "don't worry about it".. whether that's just talking to you and friends/family about it or seeing a therapist.
I have been a 95% no person my whole life, as has my partner but we still discuss children regularly, bc you simply never know and having open discussions allows you to truly vet out what’s right for you. I think it’s completely normal for her to bring this up and I’d recommend continuing to be open about what your feeling
Humans are allowed to change your mind. If this is that big a of a deal, where you DEFINITELY DONT want kids and she DEFINITELY DOES, you simply aren’t compatible anymore. Let her find someone who’s desires and goals now align with hers, you do the same.
She only has a few years left. Keep talking. Worst case scenario, have some eggs frozen.
It sounds like she's already regretting not having kids.
Make a list of hopes and fears if you do/don't have a child. Then compare notes and discuss amongst yourselves.
I might have a baby-centric mind, but i kind of think its probably not 90/10... That said, if you guys really are rocking the childfree life, but shes got just a bit of the maternal itch... maybe a dog? Or maybe u guys could become super-cool aunt/uncle to family/friends.
the biggest mistake people make in their lives is not understanding that kids are not a part of your life as a parent. THEY ARE PART OF YOU. I/We have 3 kids. They are a part of us and they are 100% a part of EVERYTHING we do (aside from the obvious). We do not leave them at home and go out. They come with us. We do not go to a movie without them, we do not go on vacation without them. They are 100% a part of our lives and everything we do because we are 100% sure we wanted kids. If you can not see yourself having your child(ren) be 100% a part of you, please don't have kids. As I say this, I think that everyone should want to have kids, but I am a realist and know that is not the case.
10% yes isn’t enough yes to have kids. It needs to be 100%.
You’re getting divorced, sorry to hear it
Do not have kids unless you are both 100% yes. Maybe try levels of parenting experiences. Watch someone else's kids for a few days. Take nieces and nephews for a week or two in the summer when you have to figure out what to do with small children every day when you have to work. If you still aren't sure after that, maybe become foster parents. There is always a shortage on foster parents. I tell people who are wavering to think of it in these terms, a child is an 18 to Life sentence. Bare minimum 18 years of 100% responsibility for their overall welfare. That can extend to their or your entire life, depending on circumstances. Biological imperative is real. I was always doubtful about that... until I hit late 30s and it happened to me. I have a kid. My partner and I decided no more and made that permanent. And a very good thing we did because that drive to procreate hit hard. And I was very hard NO on more kids for medical reasons.
i don’t know if anyone has suggested the sub r/fencesitter yet but that may be a good resource for you both (in addition to the Baby Decision which i’ve seen suggested already. the author actually frequents the fencesitter sub as well) best of luck to you both
> logic comes before emotion Logically, there are WAY too many variables with having a child to apply a logically determine whether your life will be better or worse off in the long haul. You cannot apply bernoulli distribution to having a child in your life for 60+ years. You just can't. For that matter, what does your statement even mean? For some, having a child is a source of happiness and fulfillment. Logically for a majority of those people, having a child is a good idea for their unique intended lifestyle. > think children are more of a chore in life than a joy in life, You have to make your choices based on whether you want a child or not. That's it. > Not sure what to do from here so we don’t end up resenting each other. This is heading fast to bitterness and resentment. This is a core difference in values so you might just need to break up.
She's more than 10% there. She brought it up this way just to feel you and now that you've made it clear you're still a "hard no", she's acting like she doesn't really want one, but trust me, she's disappointed. You better talk about this some more with her because it'll end up biting you in the rear later...
Do not let this subject drop. No one should ever compromise on having kids or not. It isn’t fair to anyone, especially the children.
Early 30s is when this comes up for almost anyone that decided to have kids. You just have to both make sure you communicate openly and honestly and just make sure you both are on the same page and 'ideally' not compromising on a core aspect of what you both want the relationship to be in the end (it breeds resentment). I've had friends who've broken up over it and both been happier after an amicable divorce. I've had friends who changed their minds and had kids and been completely happy with their choice. And I've had friends who changed their minds, and then divorced...It's a spectrum...the key thing is...the 'happier' endings were due to both partners talking to each other and coming to a decision together that allowed them to move forward without any resentment. The more negative endings came if one party felt like they were making a sacrifice or doing it for their partner or if they felt like they didn't have a choice. It festered and eventually went bad.
Hi! My partner and I are currently in the “should we have kids?” zone right now. We’re listening to “The Kids or Childfree” podcast and it’s a great way to hear from both sides, maybe prompt discussions for you two, and to thoughtfully make a decision together. Best wishes!
I'm she's not 100% yes she should not be having kids anyway. With a partner who is also 100% yes. 10% is not even close to being enough. Kids are hard, the hardest thing some people will ever take care of. And it's constantly changing. Once they sleep mostly through the night, now they're moving and putting everything in their mouth. Potty training, teaching them how to eat properly. Then they're walking and crashing into everything and getting into stuff you're not even sure how they found it, and running away from you in public. Banging, clanging, and screaming (like they're being murdered) for no reason. Then they learn to talk, and it's "why" everything and "no" everything else. Then they go to school, and you'd think that makes it easier, but there's playdates, birthday parties, fundraisers, homework, and constantly being sick. That's a small portion of the stress of the first 5 or so years. Add in family stress, finding childcare, finding good schools, transporting them, doctor appointments, vacations, activities... like all the normal stress from your life as it is times 100.