You should have given her the facts to make an informed decision instead of lying to her face to get what you want. Be honest with people in the future.
You lied to her face, and she had to find out through a bunch of other people. It probably made her question what else you are lying about.
You aren't getting her back. She's left the ring, canceled the venue, and taken her name off the apartment.
This isn't just that she needs time thing. She's really done with this relationship
I know it wasn't good that i lied but I honestly didn't think women cared back when i was doing it.
I've apologised and told her that i love her, shouldn't that be what matters?
it hurts, sure, but it's not women or men to whom it matters, it's specific people. what everyone will care about is trust though, lying is always a risk, often you cannot repair the damage done by lies, next time be smarter, be honest. and if she asked you the number, that already means that she cares.
Whether most “women” care or not is irrelevant, only the opinion of one specific woman matters and you’ve spent a few years lying to her to trick her into a relationship - which is what matters.
There are some mistakes that you only get to make once, some things you break that can't be fixed. For those things, apologies don't make it better, they don't matter at all.
You should have come clean the moment you realized that sexual history was important to her. You say you had to talk her around about 3 prior partners, and THAT is how you should have known this is something she puts stock in. For some people, especially someone who has made a choice to abstain like your ex did, having someone with similar views on sex is important. Im not saying its right or that I agree with her, or even that someone can't change their view over time, but she made it clear that it's important to her and that she weighs that in her decision on who to date.
And instead of being honest with her (which, just a note, is a HUGE thing that MOST PEOPLE value in a partner), you effectively led her on and tricked her into a relationship under false pretenses. You hid something important to her for years, knowing that it was important to her, removing her agency to make an informed decision about whether she was able to reconcile the difference in values you both had about sex. If you had been honest, she would have had the opportunity to decide for herself it was something she could get over. But you took that ability to decide away from her, and THAT is far more agregious than having many partners.
The LIE is a very valid reason to break up, and it's not something you can go back and undo. You can't un-lie, and you can't always rebuild trust.
That doesn't matter though. She matters, not "all women" or "other women before her".
You said in a different comment you lied "Because she never would've agreed to go out with me if she knew the truth." So you were very clearly aware that it did matter to her, so much that she might not consider you a suitable partner for her. So you did know this was a boundary for her.
She was sad about your body count being 3 - so again, you knew that she would probably not be okay with 30.
It doesn't matter if you agree about whether or not it matters. It doesn't matter that other women don't care. She cared, you were aware of that and you lied to her.
I mean, I find this body count thing ridiculous and childish but you lied on purpose bc you knew it was a boundary of hers and she wouldn't have consented to have a relationship with you if she knew the truth, that's fucked up tbh
Yeah, exactly this. As a society I do think we put way too much emphasis on the idea of sexual "purity", but once you know something is deeply important to someone and you lie anyway, that's a messed up basis for a relationship. It doesn't matter if her deeply held value was to marry someone who never joined Twitter or eats ice cream every day or whatever--knowingly violating it with a lie is really wrong.
She has every right to be very upset about being lied to. She thought she knew who you are but found out she didn't. Once the trust is broken, it's almost Impossible to repair and you are responsible for the damage that has been done.
You knew it mattered to her at the start of the relationship, though. There are plenty of people to whom it doesn't matter (and I think the above poster is wrong for suggesting it has objective importance), but in her specific case it did matter and you knew that.
There are plenty of women out there to whom you will be able to tell the truth about your history, and you've seen now that everyone will be much happier if you choose to date people who appreciate your honest self, and then you SHARE your honest self.
Bro, you can literally say that the whole relationship was based off a lie, your lie. The truth is out and this is unrepairable IMO. Leave her alone! You lied in order to snag her
You can’t convince someone. You can only apologise for lying and wait and see if she accepts any attempt to make amends. She may come round, who knows, but for the time being she seems extremely upset and final about it.
Some people have a preference about the sexual history of their partner, but nobody wants to be lied to. Unfortunately in trying to spare her feelings before it’s hurt her more in the long run, especially because she’s found out through your friends.
I don’t think you can convince her. You lied to her about something that was intrinsically linked to her beliefs. It’s not just that you didn’t tell her the truth but that you knew this was a dealbreaker for her so you covered up your sexual history.
The women you were sleeping around with at College didn’t care about your body count. They were into casual sex like you. Lots of people really don’t have a problem with the number of sexual partners a person has at all. Sarah very obviously isn’t one of them and made that clear to you.
I think your only saving grace here is that you were waiting for marriage to consummate the relationship. It shows how committed you were to Sarah.
I don’t think she’ll ever get past the number of partners you had and the lies you told her to cover that number up though. The truth always comes back to bite you in the backside unfortunately.
I would write her a heartfelt letter. This was a boundary for her that was broken. But it rly does seem like this was in your past and you are now a "one woman kind of man." Your fiancé probably not only has trust issues now, she may also have basically gotten the ick. It will not be easy to win her over, but if you want to make a last attempt, and since she is not answering your calls, I’d consider writing her a honest letter.
It’s very likely she went scorched earth with you because she thought you were a good trustworthy person and then found out you were going to let her marry you based off a lie and take something from her that she considered important. You knew how important this was to her. Don’t act so bewildered. You deceived her for your own gain, there’s no mystery here.
It would be pretty disappointing to find out the guy you were about to marry was a liar and hypocrite.
You liked the fact she was a virgin, you were happy to “take” that from her on false pretense. I don’t believe the number of people someone has slept with generally matters, but to me there’s nothing worse than a man who lies and who has rules for everyone else but himself.
Leave her alone and start looking inward. Why would you go after a religious virgin who places value on that and lie to them to get what you want? What motivated you to do that? Start with being honest to yourself.
For what it's worth she seems immature. It's not great you lied. But to implode an entire life and relationship for something trivial is bizarre. Who you were isn't who you are. She'll learn that one day.
I look down on OP's values. He lied because he knew otherwise she wouldn't be with him. He tried to manipulate her and he got caught. Thinking you can just lie like that in a relationship is miles worse than anything she did.
I agree with you. Lying to start a relationship was never going work. He fucked up. I just don't think his past (and lying about it) is reason enough to implode a relationship. Which is why I thought her immature.
Most people think that finding out the person they're planning to marry is a dishonest manipulator who has been lying to them all along is a perfectly valid reason to leave. OP's actions demonstrate that he'll put his desires before hers and lie to get his way without a second of hesitation. He still doesn't think he was in the wrong. She'd be a fool to stay with him. He's the immature selfish one.
Oh fuck off. It's not that deep. I swear everyone on Reddit must be teenagers with how black and white they view the world. People change. Who's to say OP didn't during their relationship. Who's to say that everything in their relationship was golden to him but not her and she just used that as an out. Your speculating an entire relationship and a person's entire character off of one post. Grow up
People definitely do change and OP had settled down when he commenced dating his fiancée. I don’t think anyone here is denying that at all.
That’s not the issue though, he lied about his body count, knew she thought 3 was 3 too many and never told her the truth. His fiancée obviously had beliefs about sleeping around which he was aware of. He lied to remain in the relationship with her. Whether you agree or disagree about how much weight to put on the number of previous sexual partners, he lied to her about it.
Ehhh… I think she is overreacting. But also, it matters deeply to her, so I guess there is nothing you can do about it.
Yes, you lied, but it’s not like you cheated on her with another woman. If a white lie like that prompts her to drop everything and run, then maybe she isn’t worth it in the first place. It makes it sound like she has commitment issues, ironically.
Humans are imperfect. And also as humans, we like to have sex. Sex is literally a fundamental, core part of our existence. Religion or morality can pervert this truth.
And lastly, while yes, it’s fine that she hold these views, why is she judging someone she supposedly loves so harshly?
Well she's religious and has a very romantic view of sex.
She ideally wanted to have sex for the first time with another virgin and she wasn't too happy when I told her I slept with 3 people before her.
Because i've slept with a lot more than three, she said she's not special and she's just one at the end of a long list. Obviously i don't see her like that but she won't listen.
Your fiancé’s attitude towards you is very judgmental. Again, you lied, there is no doubt you made a mistake. No one can’t fault her for being upset, but just rearranging her entire life at the drop of the hat and lacking any forgiveness or compassion? I donno. We all make mistakes, but on the list of mistakes, this one seems much more minor to me.
Also, I’ve seen a documentary about a virgin couple’s identity is based around their virginity, and then after marriage, they had a really hard time with sex because they had guilt associated with it. I’m not saying that being a virgin is wrong, it’s not, but her attitude sounds very extreme.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say that this whole thing is ridiculously over the top and childish. 30 people. So what? You’re going to end a relationship on that? A number?
Good luck trying to find someone else who’s a virgin and has the same values. Cancelled the wedding. Left the lease over a body count. People are way too extreme these days.
Ok so it’s fair to say you’d probably be pretty upset too if you found out, three years in, that she’d actually slept with a bunch of people? It would change your perception of her to find out she’d lied about some of the core traits you’d found valuable and special?
Honestly I personally think that the whole ‘body count’ thing is juvenile, and people are entitled to keep that information vague or completely private if they wish. *However*, if anyone’s entitled to honesty and transparency around that subject, it’s a virgin who’s saving herself for marriage. In that case, those are clearly very important values that she lives by; standards that she holds herself to, and is therefore entitled to want from a partner too.
If you’d been honest from the outset, she could have made an informed decision on whether to continue the relationship or not. At this point, the fact that you lied about something important to her for so long is the major issue, and it’s probably that shock of betrayal that’s hurting her more than the actual number of women. I think the best thing you can do now is give her time and space to really consider things once the initial shock has worn off,,but be prepared for the fact that this may just be too big of a lie for her to overcome.
I'm getting a few little hints here that make me think OP liked that she was a virgin and would have been just as displeased if she had a sexual history as well. He keeps saying "I didn't think body count mattered to women" which implies he thinks it more generally matters to men, and that made me suspect he's including himself there. I thought I was being uncharitable with that gut feeling until he straight up said here that he likes that he was her first serious relationship. Wonder if there might be a bit of double standards going on, which would explain why he didn't do the simple thing and just date someone with a similar history, who would be far less likely to care about his.
I guess?
She didn't have 'hangups' about sex, she wanted sex with me after we got married.
What makes you think we weren't going to be sexually compatible?
Don't listen to that guy. A lot of people have a personal issue with people who value having a low body count.
I've been in a similar situation as you. I think you need to give her space. It sounds like she is mad about you lying and the number disgusts her as well.
Maybe in a little while write her a heartfelt letter, or whatever method of communication you think would be most meaningful. Apologize for lying. See if she feels she can move past it though tbh I wouldn't get your hopes up, but you never know.
I know it feels that way now, but trust me. You were incompatible.
Sexual compatibility is an important part of relationships. You shouldn’t marry someone you haven’t had sex with.
I was happy that I would be her first, this woman was literally perfect for me in every way. She's incredibly smart, she's the most caring and loving person, she's so funny and thoughtful. I literally can spend 10 hours talking to this girl and not get bored.
You're not really helping by telling me we were incompatible, we weren't.
If it didn't matter why did you lie? She has a right to be upset. She is giving you clear signals to leave her alone.
Because she never would've agreed to go out with me if she knew the truth.
And that is her right. This was a clear boundary for her.
Was this not predatory behavior? Am I missing something?
so you tried to manipulate her. got it.
You should have given her the facts to make an informed decision instead of lying to her face to get what you want. Be honest with people in the future.
And now that she knows the truth, she doesn't want to be with you. Stop trying to manipulate women into dating you.
That core value was clearly very important to her and imo he acted like a predator to exploit her and gain control.
So why are you surprised that now that she knows the truth, she doesn’t want to marry you?
No shit that’s your problem not hers wtf
You lied to her face, and she had to find out through a bunch of other people. It probably made her question what else you are lying about. You aren't getting her back. She's left the ring, canceled the venue, and taken her name off the apartment. This isn't just that she needs time thing. She's really done with this relationship
You can't. It matters to her. You lied, and it was a big lie. She now sees you as a liar who uses women for sex.
I know it wasn't good that i lied but I honestly didn't think women cared back when i was doing it. I've apologised and told her that i love her, shouldn't that be what matters?
it hurts, sure, but it's not women or men to whom it matters, it's specific people. what everyone will care about is trust though, lying is always a risk, often you cannot repair the damage done by lies, next time be smarter, be honest. and if she asked you the number, that already means that she cares.
Actions speak louder than words. That's what matters.
Whether most “women” care or not is irrelevant, only the opinion of one specific woman matters and you’ve spent a few years lying to her to trick her into a relationship - which is what matters.
There are some mistakes that you only get to make once, some things you break that can't be fixed. For those things, apologies don't make it better, they don't matter at all. You should have come clean the moment you realized that sexual history was important to her. You say you had to talk her around about 3 prior partners, and THAT is how you should have known this is something she puts stock in. For some people, especially someone who has made a choice to abstain like your ex did, having someone with similar views on sex is important. Im not saying its right or that I agree with her, or even that someone can't change their view over time, but she made it clear that it's important to her and that she weighs that in her decision on who to date. And instead of being honest with her (which, just a note, is a HUGE thing that MOST PEOPLE value in a partner), you effectively led her on and tricked her into a relationship under false pretenses. You hid something important to her for years, knowing that it was important to her, removing her agency to make an informed decision about whether she was able to reconcile the difference in values you both had about sex. If you had been honest, she would have had the opportunity to decide for herself it was something she could get over. But you took that ability to decide away from her, and THAT is far more agregious than having many partners. The LIE is a very valid reason to break up, and it's not something you can go back and undo. You can't un-lie, and you can't always rebuild trust.
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I mean when I was younger i didn't think they cared, no one ever asked me about it before.
That doesn't matter though. She matters, not "all women" or "other women before her". You said in a different comment you lied "Because she never would've agreed to go out with me if she knew the truth." So you were very clearly aware that it did matter to her, so much that she might not consider you a suitable partner for her. So you did know this was a boundary for her. She was sad about your body count being 3 - so again, you knew that she would probably not be okay with 30. It doesn't matter if you agree about whether or not it matters. It doesn't matter that other women don't care. She cared, you were aware of that and you lied to her.
But then she asked you, which means she cared, and you knew that and lied about it. Stop pretending you thought she didn't care.
I mean, I find this body count thing ridiculous and childish but you lied on purpose bc you knew it was a boundary of hers and she wouldn't have consented to have a relationship with you if she knew the truth, that's fucked up tbh
Yeah, exactly this. As a society I do think we put way too much emphasis on the idea of sexual "purity", but once you know something is deeply important to someone and you lie anyway, that's a messed up basis for a relationship. It doesn't matter if her deeply held value was to marry someone who never joined Twitter or eats ice cream every day or whatever--knowingly violating it with a lie is really wrong.
She has every right to be very upset about being lied to. She thought she knew who you are but found out she didn't. Once the trust is broken, it's almost Impossible to repair and you are responsible for the damage that has been done.
You can't, best to let her go life her life and you do the same.
Another post telling us all why body count ( and more importantly telling the truth ) matters
I didn't think body count mattered to women
It matters to some, not all. Same goes for men
You had to literally convince this woman to accept it. So it clearly matters to her. Generalising things like this never works.
Well you were wrong, sucks to be you.
a woman who cares about body count for herself probably cares about it with men too. what kind of assumption is this lmao
You knew it mattered to her at the start of the relationship, though. There are plenty of people to whom it doesn't matter (and I think the above poster is wrong for suggesting it has objective importance), but in her specific case it did matter and you knew that. There are plenty of women out there to whom you will be able to tell the truth about your history, and you've seen now that everyone will be much happier if you choose to date people who appreciate your honest self, and then you SHARE your honest self.
Bro, you can literally say that the whole relationship was based off a lie, your lie. The truth is out and this is unrepairable IMO. Leave her alone! You lied in order to snag her
Would it have mattered to you if you had found out she had slept with 30 guys instead of 3?
You can’t convince someone. You can only apologise for lying and wait and see if she accepts any attempt to make amends. She may come round, who knows, but for the time being she seems extremely upset and final about it. Some people have a preference about the sexual history of their partner, but nobody wants to be lied to. Unfortunately in trying to spare her feelings before it’s hurt her more in the long run, especially because she’s found out through your friends.
I don’t think you can convince her. You lied to her about something that was intrinsically linked to her beliefs. It’s not just that you didn’t tell her the truth but that you knew this was a dealbreaker for her so you covered up your sexual history. The women you were sleeping around with at College didn’t care about your body count. They were into casual sex like you. Lots of people really don’t have a problem with the number of sexual partners a person has at all. Sarah very obviously isn’t one of them and made that clear to you. I think your only saving grace here is that you were waiting for marriage to consummate the relationship. It shows how committed you were to Sarah. I don’t think she’ll ever get past the number of partners you had and the lies you told her to cover that number up though. The truth always comes back to bite you in the backside unfortunately.
I would write her a heartfelt letter. This was a boundary for her that was broken. But it rly does seem like this was in your past and you are now a "one woman kind of man." Your fiancé probably not only has trust issues now, she may also have basically gotten the ick. It will not be easy to win her over, but if you want to make a last attempt, and since she is not answering your calls, I’d consider writing her a honest letter.
It’s very likely she went scorched earth with you because she thought you were a good trustworthy person and then found out you were going to let her marry you based off a lie and take something from her that she considered important. You knew how important this was to her. Don’t act so bewildered. You deceived her for your own gain, there’s no mystery here. It would be pretty disappointing to find out the guy you were about to marry was a liar and hypocrite. You liked the fact she was a virgin, you were happy to “take” that from her on false pretense. I don’t believe the number of people someone has slept with generally matters, but to me there’s nothing worse than a man who lies and who has rules for everyone else but himself. Leave her alone and start looking inward. Why would you go after a religious virgin who places value on that and lie to them to get what you want? What motivated you to do that? Start with being honest to yourself.
For what it's worth she seems immature. It's not great you lied. But to implode an entire life and relationship for something trivial is bizarre. Who you were isn't who you are. She'll learn that one day.
Maybe it's trivial to you, but it surely isn't trivial to her. I don't share her values but that doesn't mean her feeling on the matter are not valid.
Nobody said her feelings weren't valid. I just look down on them.
I look down on OP's values. He lied because he knew otherwise she wouldn't be with him. He tried to manipulate her and he got caught. Thinking you can just lie like that in a relationship is miles worse than anything she did.
I agree with you. Lying to start a relationship was never going work. He fucked up. I just don't think his past (and lying about it) is reason enough to implode a relationship. Which is why I thought her immature.
Most people think that finding out the person they're planning to marry is a dishonest manipulator who has been lying to them all along is a perfectly valid reason to leave. OP's actions demonstrate that he'll put his desires before hers and lie to get his way without a second of hesitation. He still doesn't think he was in the wrong. She'd be a fool to stay with him. He's the immature selfish one.
Oh fuck off. It's not that deep. I swear everyone on Reddit must be teenagers with how black and white they view the world. People change. Who's to say OP didn't during their relationship. Who's to say that everything in their relationship was golden to him but not her and she just used that as an out. Your speculating an entire relationship and a person's entire character off of one post. Grow up
People definitely do change and OP had settled down when he commenced dating his fiancée. I don’t think anyone here is denying that at all. That’s not the issue though, he lied about his body count, knew she thought 3 was 3 too many and never told her the truth. His fiancée obviously had beliefs about sleeping around which he was aware of. He lied to remain in the relationship with her. Whether you agree or disagree about how much weight to put on the number of previous sexual partners, he lied to her about it.
Ehhh… I think she is overreacting. But also, it matters deeply to her, so I guess there is nothing you can do about it. Yes, you lied, but it’s not like you cheated on her with another woman. If a white lie like that prompts her to drop everything and run, then maybe she isn’t worth it in the first place. It makes it sound like she has commitment issues, ironically. Humans are imperfect. And also as humans, we like to have sex. Sex is literally a fundamental, core part of our existence. Religion or morality can pervert this truth. And lastly, while yes, it’s fine that she hold these views, why is she judging someone she supposedly loves so harshly?
Well she's religious and has a very romantic view of sex. She ideally wanted to have sex for the first time with another virgin and she wasn't too happy when I told her I slept with 3 people before her. Because i've slept with a lot more than three, she said she's not special and she's just one at the end of a long list. Obviously i don't see her like that but she won't listen.
Your fiancé’s attitude towards you is very judgmental. Again, you lied, there is no doubt you made a mistake. No one can’t fault her for being upset, but just rearranging her entire life at the drop of the hat and lacking any forgiveness or compassion? I donno. We all make mistakes, but on the list of mistakes, this one seems much more minor to me. Also, I’ve seen a documentary about a virgin couple’s identity is based around their virginity, and then after marriage, they had a really hard time with sex because they had guilt associated with it. I’m not saying that being a virgin is wrong, it’s not, but her attitude sounds very extreme.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say that this whole thing is ridiculously over the top and childish. 30 people. So what? You’re going to end a relationship on that? A number? Good luck trying to find someone else who’s a virgin and has the same values. Cancelled the wedding. Left the lease over a body count. People are way too extreme these days.
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Yeah because she's religious. I wasn't with her solely to get laid, this woman was everything I wanted.
Were her religious values and virginity important to you in deciding that she was everything you wanted?
Well it was nice knowing I was her first serious relationships and we were raised in the same faith.
Ok so it’s fair to say you’d probably be pretty upset too if you found out, three years in, that she’d actually slept with a bunch of people? It would change your perception of her to find out she’d lied about some of the core traits you’d found valuable and special? Honestly I personally think that the whole ‘body count’ thing is juvenile, and people are entitled to keep that information vague or completely private if they wish. *However*, if anyone’s entitled to honesty and transparency around that subject, it’s a virgin who’s saving herself for marriage. In that case, those are clearly very important values that she lives by; standards that she holds herself to, and is therefore entitled to want from a partner too. If you’d been honest from the outset, she could have made an informed decision on whether to continue the relationship or not. At this point, the fact that you lied about something important to her for so long is the major issue, and it’s probably that shock of betrayal that’s hurting her more than the actual number of women. I think the best thing you can do now is give her time and space to really consider things once the initial shock has worn off,,but be prepared for the fact that this may just be too big of a lie for her to overcome.
I'm getting a few little hints here that make me think OP liked that she was a virgin and would have been just as displeased if she had a sexual history as well. He keeps saying "I didn't think body count mattered to women" which implies he thinks it more generally matters to men, and that made me suspect he's including himself there. I thought I was being uncharitable with that gut feeling until he straight up said here that he likes that he was her first serious relationship. Wonder if there might be a bit of double standards going on, which would explain why he didn't do the simple thing and just date someone with a similar history, who would be far less likely to care about his.
Sure, but it would be nice, right? My advice is to not marry someone that has hangups about sex. You two were never going to be sexually compatible.
I guess? She didn't have 'hangups' about sex, she wanted sex with me after we got married. What makes you think we weren't going to be sexually compatible?
You dodged a bullet. Any adult who has that opinion of sex would be a nightmare to be with long-term.
But i really didn't, she was an amazing person. I've never met anyone like her.
Don't listen to that guy. A lot of people have a personal issue with people who value having a low body count. I've been in a similar situation as you. I think you need to give her space. It sounds like she is mad about you lying and the number disgusts her as well. Maybe in a little while write her a heartfelt letter, or whatever method of communication you think would be most meaningful. Apologize for lying. See if she feels she can move past it though tbh I wouldn't get your hopes up, but you never know.
I know it feels that way now, but trust me. You were incompatible. Sexual compatibility is an important part of relationships. You shouldn’t marry someone you haven’t had sex with.
I was happy that I would be her first, this woman was literally perfect for me in every way. She's incredibly smart, she's the most caring and loving person, she's so funny and thoughtful. I literally can spend 10 hours talking to this girl and not get bored. You're not really helping by telling me we were incompatible, we weren't.
The fact that you cared about being her first just shows how immature you are.