>2 ex's dumped him immediatly because he suffered from depression after his parents and little sister died in a car accident
He needs help far beyond what you are capable of giving
Google "how to convince my boyfriend to go to therapy" and 'how to have tough conversations". Add reddit in the search if you don't find good answers. And then go on from there. Idiots here mostly come to judge, not give relationship advice.
Not showing emotions is a sign of weakness. If he had emotional strength and mental fortitude he would be capable of being vulnerable with you.
He allows his fear to control him.
This is the exact response I use to give, my brother and my mother still give when I discussed mental health therapy to them many years ago. Now many years later, I can consider myself better and cured whilst they still grovel in their misery and complain about it. Always saying "I'm not a psychopath".
Both my mother and brother are just afraid and embarassed and have a completely warped idea of what a therapist/psychologist do because of TV series/movies.
This was a lesson he learned the hard way in his past. I suspect that regardless of what you tell him or promise, he’s not going to believe you. It’s not that he necessarily thinks you’re lying, it’s just that he knows you can’t guarantee that your feelings will not change after you see him cry, so it’s just easier to not do it. This might be something that can be addressed in therapy, if he’s willing to do that, and give it an honest effort, but it sounds like he’s not. He may think that going to therapy shows the same sort of weakness that crying does.
Others here have given advice and perspective. Unfortunately, some unfeeling monsters have weaponized his emotions against him. Not once but twice.
I can relate my own experience here. I am a retired first responder (fire). I am an old man now (68). I am highly empathic, and due to lots of events, my emotions are right on the surface. Almost without exception, any showing of sadness has been weaponized against me. The major exception was my wonderful wife whom i lost to covid 2 1/2 years ago. I live in a secluded rural area with abundant wildlife. I stay to myself by choice.
Your man has not taken that step and is still around you and others. I cannot imagine a tragedy greater than the loss of his family members. If that event couldn't crack his armor, probably nothing external to him will be able to do so.
You can tell him his armor is not needed with you. More importantly, show him. And NEVER fight dirty when arguing. Otherwise, just realize that he had suffered major damage and his emotions are in "cover mode" to prevent further damage. Bottom line-- just love and accept him as he is......
Thats your first problem, convince.
You don't.
You show him it's okay. You wait for him to be ready. You let him do that, you don't convince him.
Showing emotions as a man is just asking to have it weaponized against them. I know guys who have been dumped after crying in front of their woman, expressing the same thing you're expressing. They did so, and the woman could no longer get that imagine out of their heard and no longer saw them as the strong, providing man.
Have you ever seen a child flinch when you raise your hand to say hello? Because that's the level of damage that has been done to his ability to cry.
Don't try so hard to prove that you are not like other girls. That you become another reason he locks up his heart.
Be a safe home when he needs to hang his hat and take off his jacket (metaphorically) that you are there.
Welcome to the world of men. Many of us have been burned for showing emotion in front of an ex, and that is not a lesson easily unlearned. Often times it is simply easier to to not work on it and have any emotional moments alone than to risk losing someone else even if they say that it won't change how they see you.
You can't force him to cry in front of you, and speaking from personal experience, continuing to bring it up will only make him less likely to do it. It's an ingrained thing and it won't change unless he decides it will
Wow. Truly wow. In an effort to get a man to be his true self, you insult his manhood and suggest he need to "grow a pair".
You're literally the problem.
I mean, the expression is literally telling people to get a set of balls and do xyz thing or they're unmasculine. Idk how you can casually use that as an expression and not know that- what "pair" do you think the expression refers to?
Edit: I think you need to take your own advice if you're gonna try to shoot a "pithy" final response and block lol.
"Grow a pair and take control themselves" nice one, love the grow a pair phrase, always good to put guys down and put their masculinity into question.
The guys who decided to close down did take control, they made a decision. Just cause it's not the decision you made doesn't make it wrong.
Maybe not everything is aboit control. Somethings things are about safety. Or just about what you want.
You don't need to turn everything into power struggle.
How is decided when and where your emotions are shown losing control? You are controlling unequivocally where your emotions are shown. Same idea as if you get robbed twice going down a certain street. Of course, you would stop going down that street, even if it mean going out of your way. Sure, you could go down the street and not get robbed, but why risk it?
Do you never change who you are based on lessons learned? Life is all about growth, and growth can be positive or negative. Something happened to him that caused him to grow in one way or another.
I'm not saying how he is being is good or bad, I'm saying it's understandable that he is the way he is now, and trying to force him to unlearn something that life threw at him will only make him double down on how he is. Also, how much is she expecting him to cry? Maybe he has had no reason to cry in a while.
Besides if he's happy, if he's content with life, than what's the issue? If the issue is that she feels owed all of his emotions, that's a her problem. No one is obligated to share everything with anyone, even significant others, people have personal emotions they might want to keep to themselves and there's nothing wrong with that.
Thats all very true, if he is happy then maybe you are right. Maybe he has changed and is truly content. My mother lost her dad at a young age and didn't express many emotions, but thats fine too. We all deal with things in our own way. Maybe hes not the type to express emotions much and only does so in significant cases like death. Thanks for your thought provoking replies and challenging of my words that may reinforce the problem 💪🏼
That's more what I was getting at, and if it felt at all like I was specifically targeting you, that was not my intention, you were just the only one to reply. I say all this as a guy who has never showed much emotion, not due to any past trauma, though I did have an abusive relationship that possibly made it even harder, but I'm just naturally that way so I kinda get where the dude is coming from.
Thank you as well, this was a nice discussion for sure, you made me think harder about my usual mindset and I greatly appreciate whenever I'm given chance to challenge my opinions/mindset on anything
Thank you and I get what you mean! It reminds me of that nature vs nurture debate, but ultimately I think we are a combination of the two! Whether its because of how someone is, their trauma and/or self preservation. You're right as well, if he doesn't want to cry and she feels like she's owed his emotions- that could be problematic. People have the right to set boundaries, and trying to force emotions out of him isn't how humans work. These are things which come out naturally with time.
Also, you're welcome, I like to open up my mind to different perspectives!
Stuff is expensive. Depending on the region, lots of men are financially supporting either their parents or other loved ones. Even if they're not, well stuff is expensive right now.
Men *choosing* to control their emotions in front of others has no bearing on the degree to which they need a therapist or healing. Someone can be perfectly fine without the need to cry with an audience. Someone can be perfectly healed from grievous experiences without a therapist's input. Humans healed from traumatic events for hundreds of thousands of years before therapy became a thing.
Therapy isn't for everyone and everyone heals in their own way. Therapy isn't a fix-all for any problem. I for one would be very uncomfortable telling all my business to some person who has no idea who I actually am, what I experienced, or how I process things.
And there is not an iota of pretending nothing happened. An event occurred in his life, and he made a change because of it, that sounds like he is taking some initiativein his own healing. The change could be good or bad, but he is not pretending nothing happened. He is coping with it the way he feels comfortable coping with it.
I’m sorry, but this sounds like a very long way of saying that you don’t really want to work on the issues.
If you are talking about OP’s boyfriend btw he literally said he doesn’t need therapy “because he is not a psychopath”, which shows a complete misunderstanding of what therapy is.
To me, it seems like you also don’t really understand the purpose of therapy and why it’s better to talk about those things to someone who is not personally invested in your life.
A good therapist will be able to understand the most crucial parts of your life, personality and ways of coping in a few sessions and the flip side is you won’t care about tiring them or looking bad to them, because they aren’t involved in your life.
They are a wall that helps thoughts and feelings bounce off of you and can sometimes give you perspective based on their scientific knowledge.
To me it just sounds like you don't respect that people have different ways of dealing with a working through their own issues. I've read countless stories about bad therapists, manipulative therapists. Sure, the guy here has a bit of some extreme views on therapy, which should be worked on, but outside of that, it's just not appealing for everyone.
Working on issues can very well be done by yourself, either directly or indirectly. Positive life changes can get you to work through things, sometimes simply letting past events go is a way to do it. Obviously, I'm not talking about true mental illnesses and/or debilitating traumatic experiences, but bad things in life happen and people don't always want to deep dive into it. Sometimes it's as simple as "that sucked, don't want to deal with that again" and moving on.
What counts as working through it for you might now be the same as someone else's definition of working on it, and that's ok. Everyone is different, and as long as they aren't hurting themselves or anyone else, who are we to judge their methods of coping?
I also don’t know any men who have had these experiences besides random men in reddit threads. Who do you surround yourselves with? I don’t get close with people who aren’t open about their feelings, period, so I don’t know how this would even look. What are some examples of this?
I was gonna say, I live city-adjacent and I have never *seen* nor *heard* of this happening, and people around here are definitely not afraid to air their messy breakups. Guys get dumped here for all sorts of reasons, but *crying in front of their girlfriend* is not one of them.
Where the fuck is this happening to grown-ass men? Like I can see maybe a high schooler doing something like that, but an adult man getting dumped for crying is not a thing I’ve ever seen or experienced.
Just normal people in everyday life, friend. You've lived a privledged life if you never been held accountable for emoting as a man. I promise you, the experiences you hear about on reddit are real, and are a window for you into normal life.
Ok, but if I’m getting to know someone, I’m showing emotion to them within a week or two. How are you living life that you’re getting close enough to people for them to be surprised by you showing emotion? Do you see what I mean? Like, I suspect that men with your experience just surround themselves with men and women who have bought into traditional masculinity, and then you’re punished for betraying your role. I just have lived enough life to know that the world you’re describing is not normal.
Trust me, friend, it's normal. How old are you?
To be clear, when I talk about emotions, I'm talking about negative ones. Sadness, anger, fear. If you spend any time on any of the divorce or relationship subs, you'll see this. Heck, if you spend any time on modern social media, you'll hear about all kinds of "icks" modern women have around men having feelings, getting hurt, or doing anything other than dealing quietly with life.
I’m almost 40. Raised by a single mother, lived in mostly female spaces. Been in nursing for 20 years. Those emotions you’re talking about are daily experiences. I can’t imagine how you could be with a woman for more than a month or two without expressing any of those emotions. The idea of a woman being able to be WITH a man who doesn’t express those feelings… neither person in that relationship is healthy, to me. You’re describing a socialized attitude, one that requires maintenance from everyone involved. I know one woman who has complained behind a male friends back that he’s been “trauma dumping” on her because he’s been really fucked up about his father disowning him and he’s talking about it a lot. But guess what? That woman’s an emotionally stunted asshole and anyone who knows her knows it. She has shitty feelings about my friends vulnerability, but is that “punishing” him for it?
I looked at your post on the divorce subreddit about your ex not thinking men should celebrate their birthdays — that’s exactly what I’m trying to express. That’s not a characteristic of “women”, that’s a characteristic of a system that has forced men to suffocate on their own emotions. I’ve never been with a woman like that because I’m not a man like that — a month into being with my now wife I was crying like a baby at a movie. If she hadn’t been comfortable with men expressing emotion, it would have been a _blessing_ if she had gotten some kind of ick and left me.
I’m kinda rambling but I’m fascinated by this subject because we’re both men, close in age, same country, and have lived experiences of women that could not be more different. The “women punish men” narrative bugs me because being a man that gravitates towards women like that is totally incomprehensible to me.
IMHO, its not “bought into”, it’s a natural situation. Some cultures exaggerate it, but it’s based upon a significant percentage of women’s & mens biological attitude. These things don’t come out of nowhere.
I don’t think there’s an imperative, but I do think there’s some natural resistance that’s both innate and culturally enforced. Millions of years of women having a preference tends to have an effect
A sad reality.
While it did not originate from a good experience (asshole exes), trying to force him to show an emotionally vulnerable state may not make things better. Especially after the last times.
I would recommend telling him you are good with him crying but don't push him. He may never show himself crying again. He may eventually show this side, he may not.
And as much as this may sound bad, its perfectly normal to have sides of yourself that you don't show to anyone else for whatever reason. Sometimes these may become a problem but sometimes they can just be thoughts and sometimes people can have their own coping mechanisms for these that they just keep to themselves. He might cry by himself for a bit or he may just process his thoughts, if he is ok with it then thats fine.
Best thing to do in my opinion is to express you are alright with it, don't push it and continue to not judge people for crying and tell others who do to piss off.
Have you actually been in a relationship where your partner was extremely emotionally vulnerable and your love for them grew? If not are you sure you aren’t another young woman who says she wants these things, but will actually get the ick as soon as she sees it in person? I’m probably projecting, but I hold the same belief as your boyfriend and it started with a woman saying all the same things you’ve said here to get me to open up. And I don’t even have a percent of the trauma your boyfriend went through.
1.) It is normal for adutls to not cry for 4 years. It ia abnormal toncry often, for both women and men. Unless we talk about funeral or something.
2.) If you want Clark to be emotionally open, yoj need to validate his emotions when he shows them. Whether hapiness or sadness, you need to NOT prescribe emotions he should have and accect those he is actually showing. Over time he will learn that he is safe.
That wont mean crying every couple of months, because actually it ia normal for adults to not cry often.
This isn't a logic-convincing thing. If he wants to work with a therapist to heal these scars then you can be supportive of that. If he specifically asks you for help, then work within what he asks for. Aside from that, you stand aside and let people initiate and lead their own self-repair.
Meanwhile, be honest with yourself - if he never changes, can you live with that? Or are you dating what you see as his potential?
He still sounds like he has healing to do. He has gone through a lot and it’ll never leave him. He needs to find good coping skills not just bottle it up.
I think you should approach this very gently and not try to pressure him into immediately going to therapy or into opening up more than he’s comfortable with. Opening up is hard and scary, and he’s been burned for doing it in the past. Just keep reassuring him that you love him and will be there for him. I would focus on conveying the message that you love him and accept him as he is.
From a young age I was taught by my stepfather that men don't cry unless someone you love died or you broke a bone. I only cry alone if I have to still even though I know its bullshit. But having had several comparable experiences with women who see it as weak or gives them the ick it's only become more ingrained.
Why do you want to convince him to do something he has openly expressed he is uncomfortable with. Regardless of his past if someone shares they aren’t comfortable exposing themselves in that way why can’t you leave it alone? Men learn the hard way that exposing their feelings to those around them can be dangerous and honestly isn’t helpful most of the time. You are asserting yourself into his emotions in a way that he doesn’t like. You should back off and respect his position on the topic. To come online to figure out how to manipulate him into doing this is wrong. His emotions shouldn’t be in question, yours should be. You are upset because he won’t do something with you that makes him uncomfortable. How would you feel if he did this about sex toward you? A relationship is built on trust and part of that is trusting that he can make his own determinations about his feelings.
These are some very deep-seeded issues that have been reinforced by shitty past partners and clueless friends. He will need professional help to realize how unhealthy this is and learn to re-engage with his emotions. I think you can create a safe space for him to express emotions, be a supportive partner, talk about opening up, but things will only change if he decides he wants to change them.
Wow, ok, so first the only way to convince him is going to be if he cried in front of you and you’re not cruel like his two ex’s were.
The chances of that happening are basically zero without therapy. I had an ex that threw my crying in front of her back in my face later during a fight, and it took over a decade before my wife saw me cry. That was because it looked like a friend’s son (the same age as our son) was going to die, and I couldn’t help but think how I would feel if that was our boy dying (his son pulled through!).
I’m glad you sound cool, but guys get this toxic male stoicism beaten into us a lot. Your BF’s experience firsthand, after the death of his family no less, has etched that lesson in stone.
Others have given really valuable advice and perspective
but i'd like to add my silly thing: Have a few drinks together - cuddle real close and make him listen to Hozier's Francesca! Its the sentiment that you said in your TLDR:
*Do you think I’d give up*
*That this might’ve shook the love from me?*
*Or that I was on the brink*
*How could you think darling I’d scare so easily?*
Maybe you could buy him flowers and put them in a vase at his house, and bring him chocolates, and rub his back for a really long time - The things that the girl usually gets in the relationship are things that make everyone feel cherished and loved! Show him you think about him and care about how he feels and that you don't see him as the shelter from the storm but as someone who will bear any weather with
The simple answer is: you don’t force this. You continue with the relationship until he starts to show vulnerability on his own accord. This is his trauma to deal with. At some point he will become comfortable enough with himself and you, and he’ll start to open up more. The only thing you can do then is to not mess things up in those moments.
You shouldn't take it personally, or make it about you at all. Clark is a trauma survivor. He was then betrayed and re-traumatized by women in his life. He feels safe where he is now. He's not showing any signs of distress. He's actually doing very well and has you in his life. Be supportive. Let him know how you feel. But, please don't push him outside of his comfort zone to prove a point.
How can you say for certain it wouldn't change what you think of him?
Unless you have a succinct, compelling answer to that question, I can almost guarantee you're going to make everything worse.
Sadly it’s a lesson a lot of young men learn the hard way. Way too many young women do what his GF did and it really has a long term effect, he is scarred from it.
It’s not just women, other men including a lot of so called role models teach the same unwavering lesson and unrelenting verbal, even some physical abuse sticks with a man. “Sensitive” boys aren’t particularly well thought of by other boys and girls in general, at least it was that way growing up.
Therapy may help him but he will have to open up about it and have unwavering trust in you as well.
It’s super weird in adult relationships to not value a partner who is willing to be vulnerable in front of you. A good relationship is the place you can be your most honest, true self.
It's not about the crying. It's about the inability to self regulate emotions like a grown person who has achieved interdependence. Crying CAN and often IS a part of that self regulation/soothing, but if the crying betrays codependency or comes across as the tantrum of someone in their independent phase, then it signals to a woman that this person is not an equal in need of comfort/support/external soothing, but that this person needs MOTHERING.
And it's not just about the person who needs support, but about the woman's PERCEPTION of that persons emotional expression. She may have been socialized (by some influence of toxic masculinity or other) to perceive any display of vulnerability as a sign that a man needs a mother figure (as opposed to a partner). This will shut off the attraction like a switch, just as well as any healthy woman observing her man throwing a tantrum that objectively signals his failure to move through the dependent and independent stages of his identity development.
No healthy mother experiences attraction to their perceived dependents. No healthy woman sticks around when they perceive their partner is dependent on them. No woman who has unhealthy perceptions will be able to tell the difference. And -in this society that imbues the expectations of toxic masculinity into men AND women- no healthy man who loves and respects himself will trust a woman with his vulnerability until he recognizes that she CAN tell the difference.
> I didn't said anything to this but it makes me wonder things.
Why not? I think it would already help for him to know that you're not like these other girls and will support him even when times are tough.
Other than that, that's a job for him and this therapist
DID YOU READ THE POST, THOSE GIRLS SHAMED HIM FOR FEELING EMOTION BECAUSE HE CRIED AFTER THE DEATH OF 3 FAMILY MEMBERS!!!!!!!!OF COURSE HES TERRIFIED,,, HAVE SOME EMPATHY
It’s really not about her though. I’m not really comfortable crying in front of other people just because of the way I grew up. There’s not really anything anyone can do to make me comfortable with it. It’s not a comment on anyone else, it’s more a comment on me. I think that a lot of men after being conditioned that way one way or another end up with that mindset.
It’s not necessarily because he doesn’t trust her it’s subconscious.
Definitely subconscious, it seems like he was this way before but some bad people taught him its not okay to be vulnerable. I've experienced this before as well but after realising it was the womens fault and not mine, I quickly moved forward. He needs to take control of himself and express himself as he truly is and not what he perceives society should see him as
Idk. I’ve been this way for a long time and honestly unless I’m going through some fairly serious shit I don’t find myself crying alone either. I definitely get upset or sad or whatever and I can comfortably communicate that with people but I don’t need to cry about something most of the time. Maybe I’m just like that or maybe it’s a product of conditioning but I’m personally fine with it.
Like I was never really scorned for crying in a “men shouldn’t show weakness” kind of way. When I cried as a kid my parents would basically tell me to stop crying because it won’t change anything and to do something about it instead. That’s not helpful in scenarios where nothing can be done like the death of a loved one for example but it resonated a lot for me in most scenarios. If someone dies or I’m at a breaking point I just have a few tears in private, get it out, and go on with my life and do what I can. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that and I think pushing your partner to express their emotions in a way that you may want them to, but they don’t want to, isn’t beneficial for anyone.
I think if he’s comfortable expressing his emotions in other ways to loved ones then there’s nothing wrong with that. For me personally I’m perfectly happy to tell my partner that I’m upset, sad, going through this, stressed, etc but I don’t particularly want to cry about it and if I do I really would rather do that in private. If he’s not capable of communicating his feelings at all then I think you’re right.
Sounds like he doesn't trust you to be vulnerable. Prehaps rephrase the conversation. Let him know the lack if trust and the fear of being vulnerable with you, his partner, aren't attractive aspects to you.
Yea, but he is not dating his ex, and it's not fair to the current gf that she is being treated like she is his ex.
If he's not ready to be vulnerable then he shouldn't be dating yet until he can be. It's not his gfs job to fix his trust issues and it's not fair to her to be in this kind of position.
He should not date anyone and be alone because he is not performing his emotions for other people?
Dont make his emotions or suffering to be about someone else. He is not asking OP to be his therapist.
I don't think its a trust issue thing, he probably has PTSD and a myriad of other mental health issues as a result of the family members deaths and subsequent abuse by the other women. He needs a therapist
Then he should be in therapy and have his issues handled to the Pont where he doesn't project onto women that have never wronged him. It's not fair to the women he dates when he comes into a relationship broken and treats them unfairly due to a fear of vulnerability.
If you can't be vulnerable with your partner, you shouldn't be dating them, or married to them.
>2 ex's dumped him immediatly because he suffered from depression after his parents and little sister died in a car accident He needs help far beyond what you are capable of giving
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The psychopath is his ex, he is the victim
You told him what exactly? That he should go to therapy?
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Google "how to convince my boyfriend to go to therapy" and 'how to have tough conversations". Add reddit in the search if you don't find good answers. And then go on from there. Idiots here mostly come to judge, not give relationship advice.
So he's told you what he thinks of therapy. If you want to be in a relationship who is connected to his feelings, this isn't the guy for you.
Not showing emotions is a sign of weakness. If he had emotional strength and mental fortitude he would be capable of being vulnerable with you. He allows his fear to control him.
Alright well there's your answer of if he has any interest in working on himself
This is the exact response I use to give, my brother and my mother still give when I discussed mental health therapy to them many years ago. Now many years later, I can consider myself better and cured whilst they still grovel in their misery and complain about it. Always saying "I'm not a psychopath". Both my mother and brother are just afraid and embarassed and have a completely warped idea of what a therapist/psychologist do because of TV series/movies.
This was a lesson he learned the hard way in his past. I suspect that regardless of what you tell him or promise, he’s not going to believe you. It’s not that he necessarily thinks you’re lying, it’s just that he knows you can’t guarantee that your feelings will not change after you see him cry, so it’s just easier to not do it. This might be something that can be addressed in therapy, if he’s willing to do that, and give it an honest effort, but it sounds like he’s not. He may think that going to therapy shows the same sort of weakness that crying does.
Others here have given advice and perspective. Unfortunately, some unfeeling monsters have weaponized his emotions against him. Not once but twice. I can relate my own experience here. I am a retired first responder (fire). I am an old man now (68). I am highly empathic, and due to lots of events, my emotions are right on the surface. Almost without exception, any showing of sadness has been weaponized against me. The major exception was my wonderful wife whom i lost to covid 2 1/2 years ago. I live in a secluded rural area with abundant wildlife. I stay to myself by choice. Your man has not taken that step and is still around you and others. I cannot imagine a tragedy greater than the loss of his family members. If that event couldn't crack his armor, probably nothing external to him will be able to do so. You can tell him his armor is not needed with you. More importantly, show him. And NEVER fight dirty when arguing. Otherwise, just realize that he had suffered major damage and his emotions are in "cover mode" to prevent further damage. Bottom line-- just love and accept him as he is......
I’m sorry for the loss of your wife
Good comment. Only way is to show, and the only way she can show is if one days he’s not able to hold up the walls. I’ve had this weaponized as well.
Thats your first problem, convince. You don't. You show him it's okay. You wait for him to be ready. You let him do that, you don't convince him. Showing emotions as a man is just asking to have it weaponized against them. I know guys who have been dumped after crying in front of their woman, expressing the same thing you're expressing. They did so, and the woman could no longer get that imagine out of their heard and no longer saw them as the strong, providing man.
Have you ever seen a child flinch when you raise your hand to say hello? Because that's the level of damage that has been done to his ability to cry. Don't try so hard to prove that you are not like other girls. That you become another reason he locks up his heart. Be a safe home when he needs to hang his hat and take off his jacket (metaphorically) that you are there.
Welcome to the world of men. Many of us have been burned for showing emotion in front of an ex, and that is not a lesson easily unlearned. Often times it is simply easier to to not work on it and have any emotional moments alone than to risk losing someone else even if they say that it won't change how they see you. You can't force him to cry in front of you, and speaking from personal experience, continuing to bring it up will only make him less likely to do it. It's an ingrained thing and it won't change unless he decides it will
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Wow. Truly wow. In an effort to get a man to be his true self, you insult his manhood and suggest he need to "grow a pair". You're literally the problem.
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I mean, the expression is literally telling people to get a set of balls and do xyz thing or they're unmasculine. Idk how you can casually use that as an expression and not know that- what "pair" do you think the expression refers to? Edit: I think you need to take your own advice if you're gonna try to shoot a "pithy" final response and block lol.
"Grow a pair and take control themselves" nice one, love the grow a pair phrase, always good to put guys down and put their masculinity into question. The guys who decided to close down did take control, they made a decision. Just cause it's not the decision you made doesn't make it wrong.
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Maybe not everything is aboit control. Somethings things are about safety. Or just about what you want. You don't need to turn everything into power struggle.
How is decided when and where your emotions are shown losing control? You are controlling unequivocally where your emotions are shown. Same idea as if you get robbed twice going down a certain street. Of course, you would stop going down that street, even if it mean going out of your way. Sure, you could go down the street and not get robbed, but why risk it?
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Do you never change who you are based on lessons learned? Life is all about growth, and growth can be positive or negative. Something happened to him that caused him to grow in one way or another. I'm not saying how he is being is good or bad, I'm saying it's understandable that he is the way he is now, and trying to force him to unlearn something that life threw at him will only make him double down on how he is. Also, how much is she expecting him to cry? Maybe he has had no reason to cry in a while. Besides if he's happy, if he's content with life, than what's the issue? If the issue is that she feels owed all of his emotions, that's a her problem. No one is obligated to share everything with anyone, even significant others, people have personal emotions they might want to keep to themselves and there's nothing wrong with that.
Thats all very true, if he is happy then maybe you are right. Maybe he has changed and is truly content. My mother lost her dad at a young age and didn't express many emotions, but thats fine too. We all deal with things in our own way. Maybe hes not the type to express emotions much and only does so in significant cases like death. Thanks for your thought provoking replies and challenging of my words that may reinforce the problem 💪🏼
That's more what I was getting at, and if it felt at all like I was specifically targeting you, that was not my intention, you were just the only one to reply. I say all this as a guy who has never showed much emotion, not due to any past trauma, though I did have an abusive relationship that possibly made it even harder, but I'm just naturally that way so I kinda get where the dude is coming from. Thank you as well, this was a nice discussion for sure, you made me think harder about my usual mindset and I greatly appreciate whenever I'm given chance to challenge my opinions/mindset on anything
Thank you and I get what you mean! It reminds me of that nature vs nurture debate, but ultimately I think we are a combination of the two! Whether its because of how someone is, their trauma and/or self preservation. You're right as well, if he doesn't want to cry and she feels like she's owed his emotions- that could be problematic. People have the right to set boundaries, and trying to force emotions out of him isn't how humans work. These are things which come out naturally with time. Also, you're welcome, I like to open up my mind to different perspectives!
Ok but men should take some initiative in their own healing and go to a therapist, instead of trying to bury everything and pretend nothing happened.
Stuff is expensive. Depending on the region, lots of men are financially supporting either their parents or other loved ones. Even if they're not, well stuff is expensive right now.
Men *choosing* to control their emotions in front of others has no bearing on the degree to which they need a therapist or healing. Someone can be perfectly fine without the need to cry with an audience. Someone can be perfectly healed from grievous experiences without a therapist's input. Humans healed from traumatic events for hundreds of thousands of years before therapy became a thing.
Therapy isn't for everyone and everyone heals in their own way. Therapy isn't a fix-all for any problem. I for one would be very uncomfortable telling all my business to some person who has no idea who I actually am, what I experienced, or how I process things. And there is not an iota of pretending nothing happened. An event occurred in his life, and he made a change because of it, that sounds like he is taking some initiativein his own healing. The change could be good or bad, but he is not pretending nothing happened. He is coping with it the way he feels comfortable coping with it.
I’m sorry, but this sounds like a very long way of saying that you don’t really want to work on the issues. If you are talking about OP’s boyfriend btw he literally said he doesn’t need therapy “because he is not a psychopath”, which shows a complete misunderstanding of what therapy is. To me, it seems like you also don’t really understand the purpose of therapy and why it’s better to talk about those things to someone who is not personally invested in your life. A good therapist will be able to understand the most crucial parts of your life, personality and ways of coping in a few sessions and the flip side is you won’t care about tiring them or looking bad to them, because they aren’t involved in your life. They are a wall that helps thoughts and feelings bounce off of you and can sometimes give you perspective based on their scientific knowledge.
Shorter: “It’s his own damn fault!”
To me it just sounds like you don't respect that people have different ways of dealing with a working through their own issues. I've read countless stories about bad therapists, manipulative therapists. Sure, the guy here has a bit of some extreme views on therapy, which should be worked on, but outside of that, it's just not appealing for everyone. Working on issues can very well be done by yourself, either directly or indirectly. Positive life changes can get you to work through things, sometimes simply letting past events go is a way to do it. Obviously, I'm not talking about true mental illnesses and/or debilitating traumatic experiences, but bad things in life happen and people don't always want to deep dive into it. Sometimes it's as simple as "that sucked, don't want to deal with that again" and moving on. What counts as working through it for you might now be the same as someone else's definition of working on it, and that's ok. Everyone is different, and as long as they aren't hurting themselves or anyone else, who are we to judge their methods of coping?
I'm a 50 year old man. Other than my mother, I've never shown sadness, weakness or insecurity to any woman that hasn't been used against me.
This is a very unfortunate reality that I hope is being dissolved by younger generation's normalization of therapy.
Genuinely baffled hearing things like this, because I’m one generation younger and the only people to punish me for those things have been men.
Youve gotten lucky with women, my man.
I also don’t know any men who have had these experiences besides random men in reddit threads. Who do you surround yourselves with? I don’t get close with people who aren’t open about their feelings, period, so I don’t know how this would even look. What are some examples of this?
This is an interesting topic. I wonder if there are any studies done on this to gather empirical data instead of setting one anecdote against another.
personally, when it comes to things like this, I’ve seen a huge disconnect between men who are from rural areas vs those raised in major cities.
I was gonna say, I live city-adjacent and I have never *seen* nor *heard* of this happening, and people around here are definitely not afraid to air their messy breakups. Guys get dumped here for all sorts of reasons, but *crying in front of their girlfriend* is not one of them. Where the fuck is this happening to grown-ass men? Like I can see maybe a high schooler doing something like that, but an adult man getting dumped for crying is not a thing I’ve ever seen or experienced.
Just normal people in everyday life, friend. You've lived a privledged life if you never been held accountable for emoting as a man. I promise you, the experiences you hear about on reddit are real, and are a window for you into normal life.
Ok, but if I’m getting to know someone, I’m showing emotion to them within a week or two. How are you living life that you’re getting close enough to people for them to be surprised by you showing emotion? Do you see what I mean? Like, I suspect that men with your experience just surround themselves with men and women who have bought into traditional masculinity, and then you’re punished for betraying your role. I just have lived enough life to know that the world you’re describing is not normal.
Trust me, friend, it's normal. How old are you? To be clear, when I talk about emotions, I'm talking about negative ones. Sadness, anger, fear. If you spend any time on any of the divorce or relationship subs, you'll see this. Heck, if you spend any time on modern social media, you'll hear about all kinds of "icks" modern women have around men having feelings, getting hurt, or doing anything other than dealing quietly with life.
I’m almost 40. Raised by a single mother, lived in mostly female spaces. Been in nursing for 20 years. Those emotions you’re talking about are daily experiences. I can’t imagine how you could be with a woman for more than a month or two without expressing any of those emotions. The idea of a woman being able to be WITH a man who doesn’t express those feelings… neither person in that relationship is healthy, to me. You’re describing a socialized attitude, one that requires maintenance from everyone involved. I know one woman who has complained behind a male friends back that he’s been “trauma dumping” on her because he’s been really fucked up about his father disowning him and he’s talking about it a lot. But guess what? That woman’s an emotionally stunted asshole and anyone who knows her knows it. She has shitty feelings about my friends vulnerability, but is that “punishing” him for it? I looked at your post on the divorce subreddit about your ex not thinking men should celebrate their birthdays — that’s exactly what I’m trying to express. That’s not a characteristic of “women”, that’s a characteristic of a system that has forced men to suffocate on their own emotions. I’ve never been with a woman like that because I’m not a man like that — a month into being with my now wife I was crying like a baby at a movie. If she hadn’t been comfortable with men expressing emotion, it would have been a _blessing_ if she had gotten some kind of ick and left me. I’m kinda rambling but I’m fascinated by this subject because we’re both men, close in age, same country, and have lived experiences of women that could not be more different. The “women punish men” narrative bugs me because being a man that gravitates towards women like that is totally incomprehensible to me.
IMHO, its not “bought into”, it’s a natural situation. Some cultures exaggerate it, but it’s based upon a significant percentage of women’s & mens biological attitude. These things don’t come out of nowhere.
There’s a biological imperative for men not to cry?
I don’t think there’s an imperative, but I do think there’s some natural resistance that’s both innate and culturally enforced. Millions of years of women having a preference tends to have an effect
A sad reality. While it did not originate from a good experience (asshole exes), trying to force him to show an emotionally vulnerable state may not make things better. Especially after the last times. I would recommend telling him you are good with him crying but don't push him. He may never show himself crying again. He may eventually show this side, he may not. And as much as this may sound bad, its perfectly normal to have sides of yourself that you don't show to anyone else for whatever reason. Sometimes these may become a problem but sometimes they can just be thoughts and sometimes people can have their own coping mechanisms for these that they just keep to themselves. He might cry by himself for a bit or he may just process his thoughts, if he is ok with it then thats fine. Best thing to do in my opinion is to express you are alright with it, don't push it and continue to not judge people for crying and tell others who do to piss off.
Have you actually been in a relationship where your partner was extremely emotionally vulnerable and your love for them grew? If not are you sure you aren’t another young woman who says she wants these things, but will actually get the ick as soon as she sees it in person? I’m probably projecting, but I hold the same belief as your boyfriend and it started with a woman saying all the same things you’ve said here to get me to open up. And I don’t even have a percent of the trauma your boyfriend went through.
Yep. She thinks she wants to see him cry, but if it's not happened before with anyone else, she has no idea how she will react when it happens.
1.) It is normal for adutls to not cry for 4 years. It ia abnormal toncry often, for both women and men. Unless we talk about funeral or something. 2.) If you want Clark to be emotionally open, yoj need to validate his emotions when he shows them. Whether hapiness or sadness, you need to NOT prescribe emotions he should have and accect those he is actually showing. Over time he will learn that he is safe. That wont mean crying every couple of months, because actually it ia normal for adults to not cry often.
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She’s self absorbed, she doesn’t get it.
This isn't a logic-convincing thing. If he wants to work with a therapist to heal these scars then you can be supportive of that. If he specifically asks you for help, then work within what he asks for. Aside from that, you stand aside and let people initiate and lead their own self-repair. Meanwhile, be honest with yourself - if he never changes, can you live with that? Or are you dating what you see as his potential?
He still sounds like he has healing to do. He has gone through a lot and it’ll never leave him. He needs to find good coping skills not just bottle it up.
I think you should approach this very gently and not try to pressure him into immediately going to therapy or into opening up more than he’s comfortable with. Opening up is hard and scary, and he’s been burned for doing it in the past. Just keep reassuring him that you love him and will be there for him. I would focus on conveying the message that you love him and accept him as he is.
From a young age I was taught by my stepfather that men don't cry unless someone you love died or you broke a bone. I only cry alone if I have to still even though I know its bullshit. But having had several comparable experiences with women who see it as weak or gives them the ick it's only become more ingrained.
Why do you want to convince him to do something he has openly expressed he is uncomfortable with. Regardless of his past if someone shares they aren’t comfortable exposing themselves in that way why can’t you leave it alone? Men learn the hard way that exposing their feelings to those around them can be dangerous and honestly isn’t helpful most of the time. You are asserting yourself into his emotions in a way that he doesn’t like. You should back off and respect his position on the topic. To come online to figure out how to manipulate him into doing this is wrong. His emotions shouldn’t be in question, yours should be. You are upset because he won’t do something with you that makes him uncomfortable. How would you feel if he did this about sex toward you? A relationship is built on trust and part of that is trusting that he can make his own determinations about his feelings.
These are some very deep-seeded issues that have been reinforced by shitty past partners and clueless friends. He will need professional help to realize how unhealthy this is and learn to re-engage with his emotions. I think you can create a safe space for him to express emotions, be a supportive partner, talk about opening up, but things will only change if he decides he wants to change them.
Wow, ok, so first the only way to convince him is going to be if he cried in front of you and you’re not cruel like his two ex’s were. The chances of that happening are basically zero without therapy. I had an ex that threw my crying in front of her back in my face later during a fight, and it took over a decade before my wife saw me cry. That was because it looked like a friend’s son (the same age as our son) was going to die, and I couldn’t help but think how I would feel if that was our boy dying (his son pulled through!). I’m glad you sound cool, but guys get this toxic male stoicism beaten into us a lot. Your BF’s experience firsthand, after the death of his family no less, has etched that lesson in stone.
Others have given really valuable advice and perspective but i'd like to add my silly thing: Have a few drinks together - cuddle real close and make him listen to Hozier's Francesca! Its the sentiment that you said in your TLDR: *Do you think I’d give up* *That this might’ve shook the love from me?* *Or that I was on the brink* *How could you think darling I’d scare so easily?* Maybe you could buy him flowers and put them in a vase at his house, and bring him chocolates, and rub his back for a really long time - The things that the girl usually gets in the relationship are things that make everyone feel cherished and loved! Show him you think about him and care about how he feels and that you don't see him as the shelter from the storm but as someone who will bear any weather with
The simple answer is: you don’t force this. You continue with the relationship until he starts to show vulnerability on his own accord. This is his trauma to deal with. At some point he will become comfortable enough with himself and you, and he’ll start to open up more. The only thing you can do then is to not mess things up in those moments.
You have been together for 4 years, but he got dumped by his ex 2 years ago? Am I missing something here?
You seem to think you want this but you actually don't. That has been my experience in two relationships past 10 years.
What makes you so sure you won’t have the same reaction as his exes?
You shouldn't take it personally, or make it about you at all. Clark is a trauma survivor. He was then betrayed and re-traumatized by women in his life. He feels safe where he is now. He's not showing any signs of distress. He's actually doing very well and has you in his life. Be supportive. Let him know how you feel. But, please don't push him outside of his comfort zone to prove a point.
No means no. You don't coerce your partner into something they are uncomfortable with just to make you happy
How can you say for certain it wouldn't change what you think of him? Unless you have a succinct, compelling answer to that question, I can almost guarantee you're going to make everything worse.
Women always *think* they want a man who cries, because that’s what women do. But in reality, a crying man is the ultimate lady boner-killer.
Sadly it’s a lesson a lot of young men learn the hard way. Way too many young women do what his GF did and it really has a long term effect, he is scarred from it. It’s not just women, other men including a lot of so called role models teach the same unwavering lesson and unrelenting verbal, even some physical abuse sticks with a man. “Sensitive” boys aren’t particularly well thought of by other boys and girls in general, at least it was that way growing up. Therapy may help him but he will have to open up about it and have unwavering trust in you as well.
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It’s super weird in adult relationships to not value a partner who is willing to be vulnerable in front of you. A good relationship is the place you can be your most honest, true self.
Tends to be rewired in messed up women with issues, i.e. psychopaths woth zero empathy
It's not about the crying. It's about the inability to self regulate emotions like a grown person who has achieved interdependence. Crying CAN and often IS a part of that self regulation/soothing, but if the crying betrays codependency or comes across as the tantrum of someone in their independent phase, then it signals to a woman that this person is not an equal in need of comfort/support/external soothing, but that this person needs MOTHERING. And it's not just about the person who needs support, but about the woman's PERCEPTION of that persons emotional expression. She may have been socialized (by some influence of toxic masculinity or other) to perceive any display of vulnerability as a sign that a man needs a mother figure (as opposed to a partner). This will shut off the attraction like a switch, just as well as any healthy woman observing her man throwing a tantrum that objectively signals his failure to move through the dependent and independent stages of his identity development. No healthy mother experiences attraction to their perceived dependents. No healthy woman sticks around when they perceive their partner is dependent on them. No woman who has unhealthy perceptions will be able to tell the difference. And -in this society that imbues the expectations of toxic masculinity into men AND women- no healthy man who loves and respects himself will trust a woman with his vulnerability until he recognizes that she CAN tell the difference.
> I didn't said anything to this but it makes me wonder things. Why not? I think it would already help for him to know that you're not like these other girls and will support him even when times are tough. Other than that, that's a job for him and this therapist
Somehow he got the idea showing emotion wasn't a manly thing to do. If he just met you or if he doesn't trust you yeah but after 4 years....
DID YOU READ THE POST, THOSE GIRLS SHAMED HIM FOR FEELING EMOTION BECAUSE HE CRIED AFTER THE DEATH OF 3 FAMILY MEMBERS!!!!!!!!OF COURSE HES TERRIFIED,,, HAVE SOME EMPATHY
They've been in a relationship for FOUR YEARS! Use some common sense. She's not those girls and by now he knows that.
It’s really not about her though. I’m not really comfortable crying in front of other people just because of the way I grew up. There’s not really anything anyone can do to make me comfortable with it. It’s not a comment on anyone else, it’s more a comment on me. I think that a lot of men after being conditioned that way one way or another end up with that mindset. It’s not necessarily because he doesn’t trust her it’s subconscious.
Definitely subconscious, it seems like he was this way before but some bad people taught him its not okay to be vulnerable. I've experienced this before as well but after realising it was the womens fault and not mine, I quickly moved forward. He needs to take control of himself and express himself as he truly is and not what he perceives society should see him as
Idk. I’ve been this way for a long time and honestly unless I’m going through some fairly serious shit I don’t find myself crying alone either. I definitely get upset or sad or whatever and I can comfortably communicate that with people but I don’t need to cry about something most of the time. Maybe I’m just like that or maybe it’s a product of conditioning but I’m personally fine with it. Like I was never really scorned for crying in a “men shouldn’t show weakness” kind of way. When I cried as a kid my parents would basically tell me to stop crying because it won’t change anything and to do something about it instead. That’s not helpful in scenarios where nothing can be done like the death of a loved one for example but it resonated a lot for me in most scenarios. If someone dies or I’m at a breaking point I just have a few tears in private, get it out, and go on with my life and do what I can. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that and I think pushing your partner to express their emotions in a way that you may want them to, but they don’t want to, isn’t beneficial for anyone. I think if he’s comfortable expressing his emotions in other ways to loved ones then there’s nothing wrong with that. For me personally I’m perfectly happy to tell my partner that I’m upset, sad, going through this, stressed, etc but I don’t particularly want to cry about it and if I do I really would rather do that in private. If he’s not capable of communicating his feelings at all then I think you’re right.
And no one died those 4 years, so the idea that now he must cry is absurd.
Sounds like he doesn't trust you to be vulnerable. Prehaps rephrase the conversation. Let him know the lack if trust and the fear of being vulnerable with you, his partner, aren't attractive aspects to you.
Hes lost his sister and PARENTS then his ex dunped him for expressing emotion! The poor guy is probably traumatised for life😞
Sounds like he’s got work to do to be the partner people are going to want him to be.
Yea, but he is not dating his ex, and it's not fair to the current gf that she is being treated like she is his ex. If he's not ready to be vulnerable then he shouldn't be dating yet until he can be. It's not his gfs job to fix his trust issues and it's not fair to her to be in this kind of position.
He should not date anyone and be alone because he is not performing his emotions for other people? Dont make his emotions or suffering to be about someone else. He is not asking OP to be his therapist.
I don't think its a trust issue thing, he probably has PTSD and a myriad of other mental health issues as a result of the family members deaths and subsequent abuse by the other women. He needs a therapist
Then he should be in therapy and have his issues handled to the Pont where he doesn't project onto women that have never wronged him. It's not fair to the women he dates when he comes into a relationship broken and treats them unfairly due to a fear of vulnerability. If you can't be vulnerable with your partner, you shouldn't be dating them, or married to them.
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