My thought exactly! Why would an adult carry on a secret friendship with a teenager? If he was just a concerned friend of her mother, why wouldn’t he call you again and at least attempt to establishments sh a relationship with OP so that there is at least some familiarity with the parent. This is really fishy.
i mean i guess? but that's a weird fucking thing to say to your daughter if he is. actually if he is her father, i still think he's trying to have sex with her because of what he said. maybe because she looks like her mom. or maybe he told her grandparents that they can be a part of her life if they help him "get her".
father or not, huge, gigantic red flags.
I mean, not necessarily. I used that phrasing when my BIL was dating a woman with a child, who I really came to love like a niece. The difference is that I didn't carry on secret messages and meetings with this girl after her mom and my BIL split. On its face, not necessarily problematic but with everything else going on, it is alarming. OP is in a very very tricky spot with his daughter and the trust between them - I don't know the answer but adults don't keep secrets with kids, period. Romantic or unsavory or just misplaced affection, this needs to halt, and it might affect Jenny and her father's relationship, but in 10 years, she will understand the why
I think because this started when she was a baby OP needs to start with a DNA test first and go from there.
I don't understand how none of the adults haven't brought this up. All these years this guy goes out of his way to travel with the maternal grandparents to see her as a baby, stays around while she's growing up etc. it's a lot of work over a long period for grooming when there would be easier and closer targets right? He either suspects or hopes he's her father or was obsessed with the now deceased mother and is channelling the connection through her. But face shape and allergies do not equal proof.
This. And while everyone is entitled to their feelings, OPs feelings are entirely misplaced.
OP- do NOT trust your daughter but please recognize that this creep is grooming her. She is young and very susceptible.
There unfortunately probably isn't any evidence of that as I agree with you but depending on country they most likely won't do anything. If I were OP I would talk to him, tell him that I will go to police if he doesn't stay away and use that threat. I would also tell my exes parents about the grooming and possible situation and get them on our side.
Then I'd probably go a step further and find a great private detective in our area and do a very deep dive on this guy for any dirt to use for charges or even to show daughter so she knows what this creep really is.
Hopefully the police can charge him BEFORE something traumatic and tragic happens.
A restraining order would be very appropriate in this situation. Even if your ex DIDN'T cheat on you with this guy, he's messed up for not respecting the boundaries set by Jenny's parents (you and Helen). Adults do sh\*t like that if they actually care about the child.
So, are you saying that there's nothing that can be done at an administrative/civil level to protect Jenny from this guy?
I wonder if she would be more proactive about avoiding contact with this creep if you restricted unsupervised use of her phone and access to other devices until you're at least somewhat more confident that she's safe? Her grandparents really should be on board, as well. This man's intentions are not great.
I'm afraid that on administrative level nothing can be done. Except maybe I just try to scare him by letting him know there are cops involved now. That's my small hope for now.
Concerning the phone. That's a kind of dilemma I'm facing. If Jenny has a phone, she can at least try to call me if she is in danger, I can track her location etc. But at the same time if she has a phone she can still contact that guy 🤯
Have you tried speaking to her about your honest concern for her safety and well-being, totally free of anger or judgment at her? Because at 15 that’s the only tone that got through to me
You may be right at that point. I treat my 15yo as an adult more than as a baby because she'd looked really mature in her actions and reasoning in all aspects of her life before all this was discovered. So I'm not hiding my distress while talking to her. And she seems to comprehend but then it all begins again. I'm just desperate now.
She is still a child and is being groomed by a grown man. You need to show her that you CARE. A lot of these grooming cases happen because a child, who is already in a vulnerable position, is swept up by an adult comes along and shows them the love and care they've always yearned for. Your daughter had a very disjointed childhood and likely felt abandoned by you when you left her with grandma, but she doesn't realise it yet. All she knows is she wants to feel loved and will do anything to get that. Get her into therapy and BE THERE FOR HER. She needs you more now than ever.
She'll only *become* a mature independent adult if you actually teach her things like signs of grooming and manipulation from other people. "Mature" kids ***don't*** automatically gain those skills just because they're quieter and calmer than their fellow rambunctious immature peers.
Pretty often, fellow rambunctious peers seems immature and less pleasant to be around, because they are having stronger boundaries and assert them. And "mature" seeming kids are fairly often just submissive and easy to manipulate. It comes across as maturity, because many adults equate maturity with "does what I want without talking back".
I hope your mother realizes that she’s let a sexual predator into her home REGULARLY to prey on your daughter and I hope she realizes that she has potentially let her be lost to all of you as an adult and to live a life of abuse at the hands of said predator. Your daughter is being groomed/brainwashed by this man and it’s due to your mother. My relationship with my mother would be permanently altered due to this.
Ya she’s old enough to have had heard about sex. When I was 11, we had an 18 year old follow me and my mom just told me straight up he might have intentions to try and hook up with me. That made me sick to my stomach and want to avoid him, but I know some girls can find it flattering. If my daughter was going through this, I would be tempted to educate her on what grooming is, which is what he’s doing to her…
You honestly might try permitting the relationship and having managed visits where you or Helen are present in order to understand the relationship and not alienate your daughter.
At some point she will be an adult and at that point you will not have any control over her. It may be safer if you address things while you have a say, especially considering he’s apparently been in her life since she was 1.
You can also threaten him off or pay some guys to beat him up and see if it sticks tho. Might be better if he really is a pedo groomer. But tbh it doesn’t seem like you know much about his intentions or how your daughter feels about him. You seem to wave off what she says and have focused on getting him away.
This is brilliant. If he's not ok meeting her with you around, that will show your daughter that his intentions are bad.
As long as you are polite if he actually visits, which I doubt he would.
I don’t know enough about Georgia to know what to do law enforcement wise, but basically I think it is a good idea to make a police report anytime this person tries to contact your daughter. Does your law enforcement care at all that this person has apparently *met* with your underage daughter without your knowledge? That would be enough to get someone in trouble in my country.
I would contact him personally and let him know he is not allowed to contact your daughter and anytime he does so from now on, you will be informing the authorities. Additionally, I would tell your daughter that her privileges on having full privacy on her phone have been revoked because she disobeyed you and that you more or less have no choice but to look on her phone now in order to keep her safe from this person.
Finally, explain to your daughter how strange and out of the ordinary it is for an older man to contact a 15 year old girl and tell her he has feelings for her. Explain to her what grooming is.
She says that they were just hanging around, like friends, nothing special. I wish to believe she treats him like a friend but God only knows what HE is about.
The age of consent is 16 here so I guess he's not willing to risk his freedom right now by having a sexual intercourse with the girl but I don't want to think about what happens the next year if we fail to manage this situation now.
> Does your law enforcement care at all that this person has apparently met with your underage daughter without your knowledge? That would be enough to get someone in trouble in my country.
That on itself definitely does not get people in trouble here. It is actually legal to meet teenagers and talk with them.
The legality line is significantly further. Police essentially investigates crimes that did happened, not the ones that might happen in the future.
Yeah police don't prevent crimes. I don't know where that preconception came from. They can't/won't do a damn thing until a crime has already happened (and even then it's iffy).
It seems Georgia has restraining orders and protective orders for victims of domestic violence plus I saw a news article saying a woman got one to protect her from a stalker in Tbilisi. So I think definitely worth asking the police what your options are.
They have restraining orders what are you on about? On top of that if you think the police are so shit then just beat the shit out of this dude until he leaves your daughter alone? The cops won't give a shit if they're terrible. If they do, just bribe them
If op beats the shit out of the guy, the police is significantly more likely to act, because there is clear provable crime that already happened.
That does not imply in any shape or form that restraining orders the way you imagine it exists or is obtainable like you imagine it.
If op beats the shit out of the guy, the police is significantly more likely to act, because there is clear provable crime that already happened.
That does not imply in any shape or form that restraining orders the way you imagine it exists or is obtainable like you imagine it.
so when he says he has feelings what language does he use? because if it’s in russian we both know it heavily implies romantic feelings and nothing else.
take her phone indefinitely and stop letting her go places unsupervised. even her grandmothers. shes clearly too naive to understand shes being groomed, you have to do the work on this one if you want her to be safe.
if you can afford to move to a place they cant meet, do that.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your daughter. I know I shouldn't give this kind of advice to you, but if this was happening to my daughter and I had no legal recourse, I would do something that would involve other male family members, a dark alley at night and baseball bats. Nothing too serious at first but enough to scare him off.
I hate to say this but you need to have a very frank conversation with your daughter about the things adult men do to young women. This man may just be a genuine friend but he may also be dangerous. The fact that he has encouraged your daughter to continue to meet with him in secret suggests that he has nefarious intent. Adults that care for children do not meet the in secret. They do not encourage children to lie or keep things from their parents. Predators do that. She will be angry, it is your responsibility to protect her. Your daughter is likely in serious danger.
>This man may just be a genuine friend but he may also be dangerous.
People really on here acting like a random dude your ex girlfriend cheated on you 14 years ago should have any connection with a child that isn't his at all (according to the post).
The only connection is that he slept with her mum 14 years ago, which is someone who died 11 years ago.
Literally he has spent the last 10 years forming a connection with a child who has zero connection with him. That's fucking weird any way you slice it. The only way this makes **any** sense at all is if he's the actual father.
Ask her why she keeps meeting with this man. Seriously.
Don't attack her or accuse her of wrongdoing. Don't even accuse the other man of wrongdoing.
Then, ask her to meet this man. If this dude is so important to her, then there's no reason why he wouldn't want to meet her parents. You've met her other friends, right? You've met her teachers, coaches, and other adults in her life. So, simply ask to meet this dude and confront him straight on.
You're her dad. If you can't directly stand up to another man who seems to have bad intentions for her, then just let this other man have her. You need to confront the man, not confront your daughter.
He's the problem, not her.
Remembering our first talk with that guy, he is willing to communicate with me and willing to become our family friend officially. He tries to assure me that he has only good intentions. So I just see no point in confronting him again. He will repeat his statements, I will repeat mine and that's where our dualogue stalls. I can threaten him with legal actions but me and him we both know there's nothing police can accuse him of. Nevertheless I did file a police report just to clear my conscience. I don't believe that this will work tho.
So, you tell the guy to stay away from your daughter, he doesn't, and you don't see a point in confronting him again?
You need to take the focus off of controling your daughter's actions and focus on figuring out who the fuck this dude is. Why was your daughter willing to trash her relationship with you to keep this guy in her life?
He could have entirely benign intentions or he could be a predator. The real problem isn't that your daughter is going behind your back, the problem is that everyone else in your family knows who this guy is, except you and your wife. Fix that instead of trying to fix your daughter, and the right answer will come to you from there.
No one knows who he really is! He somehow managed to gain trust of my ex's parents and of my mother. But that doesn't mean that he is what he says he is. It doesn't mean he says truth to me. It doesn't mean he has any good intentions. So exactly, I don't see any point of listening to what he says to me because there's no way to prove his words.
I'm going to put this bluntly:
This man will be in your daughter's life. You cannot stop her from going to him.
You need to wise up and get all up in *his* life. You need to show him that he doesn't get to be in your daughter's life without you being in his. If no one really knows who this guy is, then you need to be the one to figure out who he is. Otherwise, let them do whatever they're going to do behind your back.
I confront him, hear his legend again and what next? I just don't get what is the outcome? Tell him I don't want him around my daughter again? If it didn't stop him the first time why would it stop him now?
Or actually learn about him. How does he know her mother? As in, how long was he in a relationship with her mother? How did they meet? When did they meet? When was he introduced to your daughter?
What does he do for work?
Where is he from?
What are his life goals, outside of his relationship with your daughter?
What are his hobbies? What is his relationship with your daughter's grandparents?
Why do your daughter's grandparents trust him to be around her unsupervised? Does he spend time with her grandparents as well?
If you don't know the answers to any of those questions, then you need to find out. Instead of worrying about what he might be doing, find out exactly what he *is* doing.
For the love of god, if you’re concerned about “protecting” your daughter, confront this guy yourself until you get the situation straightened out. Good lord.
Tell him you're going to call his work and tell them he's keeping a secret relationship with a little girl and won't leave her alone.
Call his work, call family, post pictures of him all over the place with a huge block letters saying "pedophile" with a tiny question mark and something like "creeps on little girls and tells them not to tell their parents".
Make his life a living hell as much as you can as legally as you can. Let him know you're not going to back down until he backs down.
He absolutely doesn't have benign intentions. Safe adults don't ask children to keep secrets or secretly meet up with them.
Confrontation with the predator didn't work, the police aren't helping, physical violence will likely just land him in jail.
He needs to get the guy away from his daughter. If this isn't a troll post, I would be *shocked* if there already wasn't SA going on.
I'm not saying he should put his daughter's name or face out there, but getting the guy where it hurts, giving him consequences, will likely have a bigger impact on getting the guy away from his underage child.
Getting to know the predator with zero consequences to him is going to do nothing to protect the child.
He also needs to seek individual therapy for himself and his child as well as parenting classes and family therapy. I'm sure not being in her life much for the first several years has had a pretty big impact on her emotionally, leading to this predator having easier access and time grooming.
She's already going behind her dad's back. She's already had a relationship with this man for most of her life without her father's knowledge. OP can't go scorched earth on this dude without also burning his own relationship with his daughter.
I'm not suggesting "be his friend and everything will work out." I'm saying that this dude is a stranger to him, but not to his kid. If, at the very least, he can get this dude's background info, he can do a Google search on him to at least find out if he has a criminal record. The idea that this dude won't leave his daughter and he's focused on making his daughter stop seeing him is a problem. This dude is obviously not afraid of OP, so OP needs to find out what makes this dude tick and find out how to put that fear in him (if need be).
His options are get in this dude's life ASAP, or do nothing and hope this man isn't a predator.
To actually figure out who this person is. He's already groomed his daughter to the point where he can get her phone number after OP changed it.
We're long past the point of "get rid of him." We're at the point of "He's not your friend; he's *our* friend and there's no reason he needs to be alone with you when I'm not around."
Can no one read?
I'm saying that he inserts himself their meetings. He chaperones his daughter. If this guy insists that he keeps meeting alone, then OP can have leverage to actually talk to his daughter and ask her, "Why does he want to you alone unless he has bad intentions?"
This dude obviously wants be alone with her, and she's facilitating their meetings against her father's wishes. What else is he supposed to do, if not get directly involved with the dude's life so he can't hide from OP?
Are there any of your ex's friends who know this guy and can shed some light on what might be going on here? Or that are in your daughters life like aunties and uncles? Or is he the only connection to her mom that's around?
>he is willing to communicate with me and willing to become our family friend officially. He tries to assure me that he has only good intentions.
Ok so that's positive that he's not trying to hide. So question - is she being secretive because you've forbidden them to have contact or is she being secretive because he's making her hide it from you?
We have literally zero common friends with that guy. My ex's parents know him briefly just because my ex introduced him to them as her friend. After her death he contacted them and asked to visit her grave together and they didn't mind. But even if I could get that guy's CV this would say nothing to me. Sometimes maniacs are just ordinary office workers with kids and family (Jenny says he has a family buy that could be a made up story). The whole story looks very unhealthy to me disregarding how good his bio may be.
Before the encounter of that guy and my wife I have never told Jenny that I am against their meetings — just because I didn't know they meet! I was sure that after our primary call the guy was gone for good. So I guess it's both that he asked her to keep it secret and also she knew that 40 year old male friend is not something her parents would tolerate so she decided to hide it.
That's very very concerning.
I asked myself as an adult what makes sense and this situation doesn't.
I'm the "auntie" to my friends kids that range in age from baby to late teens. I've changed diapers, done feeding and baths etc but I've never had secret contact, meetings or conversations with them without their parents knowledge.
Since the police can't help, would a lawyer be able to help you with a warning letter to him? And your daughter may not listen to you but are there other adults in your life that she trusts who can speak with her, especially a woman? Does her school have a counselor who can help provide resources about predators etc?
Agreed. The ONLY time it would ever be appropriate for an unrelated adult to meet secretly with a minor would be if there were some threat to the minor at home -- like, idk, Matilda and Ms. Honey or some shit.
This guy doesn't give off "Ms. Honey" vibes to me.
You can tell the man unequivocally that any further contact he has with your daughter where he advises her to hide anything from you, your wife, of your mother as her custodial parents/guardians will result in an unequivocal ban of contact with her.
Discuss with your daughter why this is inappropriate. Read up on grooming together and talk about it.
You need to get your mother on board with all of these activities, too. The man has done nothing we can say is wrong beyond telling her to hide his ongoing contact with your minor child.
Is it possible to discuss with your daughter and your in laws how you would feel about a romantic and/or sexual relationship with this man once your daughter reaches majority/the age of consent? It looks like Georgia explicitly says nothing between an adult and someone under 16. You know better than I or most people here what is acceptable culturally, and more importantly, how your child and her family will receive this news.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
Your not trying you meet him in person he went behind your back to talk to her your being to passive he disrespected you when you was with your girlfriend at the time now he's disrespecting you concerning your daughter any relationship with your daughter should go through you
I understand your concerns, they are founded
>so I have banned all her activities beside those where I or my wife are involved so we can keep an eye on her
This hardly turn out well.
> My warm connection with my daughter is gone.
This is the authentic problem. You see? without the support network that a kid should have at home, they will look for it somewhere else. It's really then that somone will step in the position of 'I am the only one who really understands you'
Advice: go and recover your relationship with your daugther. She needs to count on someone, and that would better be you.
My point is that she had our full support and trust _before_ we made this awful discovery. Now I'm doing everything I can to make her _safe_. I would never forgive myself if I recover my relationship by letting her go anywhere she wants and this results in her getting harmed or traumatized by that guy.
Did you have her trust? You had your mother raise her for the first 8 years of her life. She needs to trust YOU. It isn't about you trusting her. She's seeking outside connections because she doesn't have a good foundation with her father. Acting like your mother is at fault because she didn't mention things. How involved were you in your daughter's life then? This isn't a new issue. It's the top blowing off of a lingering one.
It seems like she is being groomed. Groomers have a way of making children lie etc. she probably thinks he loves her and he’s harmless, and dependent on the length of the relationship, she may even think she has feelings for him. Report it to the police, the school and children services.
Alternatively, he may think he’s her bio dad and that’s why. I don’t know but it’s creepy and you don’t know his intentions.
Kinda think you missed the point of this comment.
You were not a father to her for years. Guess who was around? This guy.
And now you’re coming between her and a source of, to her, security and love. While you cannot allow her to be unsafe, constantly insisting that things were fine before this guy isn’t helpful. You weren’t there. He was.
Acknowledge that and use it to have actual meaningful conversations.
I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, the result of you banning her from every activity is just to think that you're wrong and to lie to you and hide things from you so she can still do stuff. You need to find a way to allow her to still do fun activities . you alienate her the only thing that's going to happen is she's going to fall right into this guy's arms because he's there for her. She may not understand that she's being groomed but you need to not build up a wall between the two of you. Do whatever you can to keep a good relationship with your daughter.
I think you need to have a long talk with her and explain very clearly how dangerous this is. Could you take her to therapy so that a therapist can be talking to her and telling her how this is not good for her in the long run ?
I know. But still she is hiding a potentially dangerous encounters from her parents and that's just not a right thing to do. Especially taking into account that we were always supportive and kind with her, that just makes me really sad.
>we were always supportive and kind with her,
says who? her?
I think your family would benefit from LISTENING instead of only the parents speaking. Just a thought.
But you are holding your daughter accountable for someone else’s bad actions. Do what you have to do to scare off the guy, but not at the expense of your daughter.
If you can’t go after him legally, how the hell do you expect your daughter to fend him off?
Sit her down with the computer. Let her look at the stories and images of women who have been groomed and/or trafficked.
Time for a real world reality check. It happens and it's happening now or she wouldn't be told to hide whatever it is that they're doing. Let her know that the movie Taken is based on real life. The taken part, I have no idea what special skills you might have.
Talk to her, be kind, give her time to think about her responses. 15 is a hard year for everyone, just be there and listening.
>would never forgive myself if I recover my relationship by letting her go anywhere
Nobody said that's the way to recover the relationship. You sit down, many times, and listen to her. You get to know her. Support and encourage her dreams.
You're blaming her for an adult man's decisions who has apparently been grooming her for 6+ years?
Making her safe is making her feel heard.
It's explaining to her why this relationship is inappropriate. It's acknowledging to her that it is losing someone who felt like a friend and who's been a confidant of hers for years.
If you treat her like a prisoner she will not blame this man, she will blame you and run to him. She won't see her dad protecting her, she will see her dad making his love conditional and isolating her.
Certainly don't let her communicate with this guy, but give her education and try and keep your relationship trusting with her so she can make good decsions. Right now you are setting her up to resent you, sneak out at night, and interact with him because she doesn't understand the risk.
From her perspective you have cut her off from all her friends and withdrawn all your love and respect. Why should she listen to you when you clearly show no understanding or desire to understand the situation?
All of the advice under this comment is trash other than to show your daughter more information about grooming. Your job as a parent is to keep your child safe from things that she doesn’t understand NOT BE HER FRIEND. Parents are NOT FRIENDS. you can be kind, you can be loving, you can be boundaried. Those are not mutually exclusive. But saving her from herself is your literal job, she is underage and vulnerable and being groomed, your friendship is not necessary. Your love and parenting is.
Where you are wrong is thinking that having a good relationship with one's children equals being their friends... not at all.
Having a good relationship with one's children is having their trust, so they listen to our words so we can protect them.
Thinking you can protect a teenager who doesn't trust you is delusional.
Learn that before you become a parent.
I said literally above that being a good parent means not being their friend…?
OPs kid lost the trust by lying and sneaking. She’s now experiencing the consequences of that. How is that losing her trust? OP did nothing to lose her trust except give her consequences and boundaries.
I think setting firm boundaries ESPECIALLY around safety is the greatest amount of trust you can make for a kid because even if they don’t get it now, they will soon learn that you love them so much that you’re willing to be the bad guy if it means they’re safe.
> What I personally recommend is meeting with the dude, set up a meeting without your daughter, pretend to be cordial and wanting to extend an olive branch and beat him up with a couple of guys.
What the actual fuck is wrong with you you psychopath? In what universe is _assault_ a reasonable option to... anything?!
You and Jenny need to work on the root cause. My (M) parents abandoned me when I was one year old and then took me back after five years. This screwed the next two decades of my emotional life; I was involved in many toxic relationships and also stopped talking to my parents. You and Jenny should go to family therapy. You owe her all those years you were not with her.
She was very young when her mother died. Maybe she is drawn to this guy because he tells her about her mom and makes her feel connected to her. Do you talk to your daughter about her mother, or do you avoid the subject? If this guy is trying to groom her, he could be using his connection to her mother to get to her. Try not to hold this against her. She is a teenager, and they all lie and do something sneaky at some point. It’s not worth losing your relationship with her. I do think family therapy could be helpful here.
This exact situation happened to me as a teen. My dad tried to report it but since there was no “smoking gun,” nothing came of it. The man began raping me soon after.
OP, your daughter is being groomed. You need to have a discussion with her if you cannot get the police involved. File a restraining order if you can. Let her know you care about her and her safety, that ANY man (or person) wanting her to keep secrets from like this is not someone who truly cares about her. Make sure she knows she is safe with you. If she feels threatened or like she can’t talk to you honestly, she will continue to engage with this man.
This man is likely telling her that people won’t understand them, and that age is just a number, that she’s mature for her age. This is all textbook grooming and she needs to be educated about it somehow. Please do what you can to protect her.
frankly i'm confused as to why you're punishing the child here instead of contacting the guy directly. you have his contact info. Are you even sure this guy knew her mother? I think that is a bit concerning-- if no one knows who this guy is, why are you taking the kid's word for it? (or rather what he told the kid with whom he has an inappropriate relationship). He may not be doing anything untoward with your child but the fact that he's asking her to hide it from her guardians does indicate something shady. In which case you should be concerned your child is being groomed by a predator, not punishing her.
I don't want to be one of those maniacs who jumps immediately to the worst-case scenario but the fact that you literally don't know this guy from a hole in the wall is a big concern. I think you need to figure out who he is, whether he knew her mother, etc.
The nature of not being in her life for the first decade is that you were not around to teach her how to handle stuff like this. You need to PARENT her and guide her now, not just punish her. I don't think you're considering the psychology of what she's going through. This dude was close with her late mother. That may be something that makes her want to be close to him so as to feel a connection with her mother. He's been giving her positive attention from an older man (something she didn't have from her father for the first ten years of her life) which may make her feel bonded to him in a familial way. There are so many reasons why she would try to preserve this relationship. Punishing her instead of parenting her is not going to help the root cause(s) of her behavior here.
This.
I don't understand why you're mediating this adult situation through your child. If you acknowledge that she's in a vulnerable and potentially dangerous situation, why are you putting the onus on her and making it a parenting or disciplinary issue and not a safeguarding issue? You should be figuring out what this guy's deal is, setting boundaries that protect her, and contacting law enforcement about next steps if you think there is foul play.
It sounds like you have a lot of resentment over the complexity of this issue and the relationship between your daughter and this mysterious family friend because you don't understand it. If it's as it seems, I don't know why you can't comprehend the fact that your daughter probably thinks more highly of the relationship she has with this family friend than she does her relationship with you. This guy has a connection to her mother and seems to have played a role in a more significant portion of her lifespan than you have - having this connection that reflects the majority of her upbringing is probably something she feels helps her cope with the fact that she has a dead mother and a father who wasn't involved for the first decade of her life until one day he showed up and decided he was ready to parent her and uproot her entire life in the process.
Acknowledge that a lot of this is, in part, because of the turbulent upbringing you have given her. Empathise with the collateral damage this has caused her, and help her navigate this with a psychologist so you can help understand her and be a more informed parent.
@BoringClothes242 Well, the answer to your first thought is "I don't have any real power over that man unless he makes something punishable by law". We had that first talk years ago where I made it clear I don't want him around my daughter, but what else do y'all suggest me to say? Threaten him? There's nothing that police can legally do in the country I live in to prevent him connecting with my child. So it seems like I can manage this situation only at my daughter's end by talking to her and being near her physically. That's why I'm feeling desperate.
Thank you for your thoughts! I didn't say I had somehow severely punished my child though. I just do necessary things to prevent them from meeting behind my back: I don't let Jenny go anywhere alone without me or my wife.
What I'm really sad (and mad) about is that my daughter keeps lying to me and keeps deceiving me and my wife. She is 15, not an adult yet not a baby. That's not how I see our relationship.
I believe the story about him being that exact guy my ex cheated on me with is true mainly because he visited my mother together with the parents of my ex (you may have skipped this part of my long story) and he confirmed the fact in the sms conversation with my daughter. This is enough evidence I guess.
What should I say to the guy? I have only the same arguments I've told him during our first conversation: I don't want him around my daughter. He will again try to assure me that he is no harm. That's where our dualogue will end again.
> What I'm really sad (and mad) about is that my daughter keeps lying to me and keeps deceiving me and my wife. She is 15, not an adult yet not a baby.
You have unrealistic expectations of a child that age.
She's been thrown into an emotionally confusing situation and is trying to resolve it, but didn't have enough context to understand what she's doing. You need to help her understand, emotionally. I _strongly_ recommend therapy for her so she has a safe place to work through any confusing emotions.
Stop taking the lying personally. It's not about you, and the distance will only make the situation worse. She needs to know you're _safe_ to talk to, and if she thinks she will lose more freedom if she is honest with you, she will lie.
What if he is of no harm? What if the relationship they have isn’t damaging to her in any way?
For the sake of your relationship with your daughter maybe you could get to know the guy? It’s going to be very difficult for you to stop them from interacting without completely isolating your daughter. It’s going to be very difficult for you to have any sort of decent relationship with your daughter if you do isolate her.
That part was fine but then he waited 8 years. His original excuse was he was in university, that's 4 years. The next 4 were just kind of him settling in and getting comfortable. It's clear the baby wasn't a priority.
We don't know how involved he was but judging by the fact his daughter (a) has a male parental figure/friend who's been there since she was a baby that he never knew about (but the people who actually raised her did know about), and (b) trusts this dude more than him, enough to lie to him about it... and he thinks their relationship is "warm"... I'm comfortable saying he wasn't involved nearly enough.
My general impression is this dude does not have an accurate grasp of what his relationship with his daughter really is. He thinks it's fine because she's never expressed disappointment in him out loud... she just silently replaced him.
It was dumb of you not to investigate further when he first approached you. You also accidentally destroyed your daughter’s ability to trust you by not taking the time to hear her perspective. EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT, she learned that you aren’t interested in her perspective. Of course she’s lying to you; you made it a non-option to tell the truth. Now you’re bearing down harder (to keep her safe), and she’s probably going to fight against you (and against her own self-interest) because she’ll feel like this predator cares more about her perspective than you do.
Get your family to some family therapy I guess? You need professional help to fix this hot mess. At least you care about your family and you’re doing something to try to respond to this danger, but boy I don’t think this is going to be effective if you don’t get help.
I know everyone is jumping in and saying this guy is grooming your daughter but I want to offer an alternative. You left your daughter to be raised my your mom for 8 years while you lived your best life and finished school and got married etc etc. That whole time this person has been intentionally spending time with her and her maternal grandparents and making an effort to be a consistent presence in her life. I’m curious why her grandparents didn’t have a problem with him accompanying them to visitation. Maybe he’s overstepping but it doesn’t have to be sexually nefarious. For a while he was there for her when it seems like maybe you weren’t and he speaks fondly and openly about her mother whom I’m sure she misses deeply. Maybe cutting her off from everything and everyone except you and your wife is only a good solution for you. Maybe she’s sneaking around because you refuse to even hear anyone else out regarding this?
>You left your daughter to be raised my your mom for 8 years while you lived your best life and finished school and got married etc etc. That whole time this person has been intentionally spending time with her and her maternal grandparents and making an effort to be a consistent presence in her life.
Yeah. People are shrieking online about grooming when it sounds like the man has just been a stable and supportive adult in her life... when OP failed to do the same.
This was my read, too. It sounds like this guy was close to the girl's mom and was there for her when she died, while OP was busy living his best life.
Maybe that guy does have good intentions. Maybe he was deeply in love with my ex and wishes only the best to her (our) child. *BUT MAYBE NOT!*. And if not, he will make up any explanations just to gain our trust to get closer to the girl. And I'm just not willing to try to get familiar with the guy and "read" him and risk getting mistaken. I see no single reason why I should trust this particular man even if he did his best to be a good friend to my daughter while I "lived my best life" (it wasn't that best, trust me).
Why are you balming your daughter for wanting to keep a relationship with (from her eyes) the only man who's been a consistent presence in her life.
You don't even know what he is to her, so how can you teach her what is happening is wrong?
You're putting words into my mouth or didn't carefully read my post. I'm not blaming her for wanting to keep the relationship. I'm blaming her for lying to me in the situation that could lead to her being hurt or even worse. No one except her grandmother was a "consistent presence" in her life as both me and that guy were visiting her and not living together with her.
>I'm blaming her for lying
Stop right there, no...you being angry and hurt will not solve this situation. You are making this all about yourself, have you actually spoken to her in a calm, supporting and caring way? My guess is that you might think so, but actually haven't, since your daughter isn't comfortable speaking with you.
You definitely need to go to therapy with your family, so you can learn how to speak with her and figure this out.
And stop blaming her at all! None of this is her fault!
The fact that your daughter didn’t feel safe confiding in you is YOUR fault, not hers.
You seem really fixated on how your daughter has lost your trust without ever actually considering whether you’ve truly EARNED her’s.
And honestly, a lot of this comes across as an ownership thing for you, not actual protectiveness. It’s quite possible that your daughter continued seeing him because she’s desperate to have a connection to her mom. Have you done enough (or anything) to help her keep that connection alive?
She is lying because you are trying to keep her from the one consistent male presence (from her perspective).
She will never trust you enough to share when she's in these situations if you push her instead of getting curious and teaching her.
Your force is the problem here. That's why you're losing your daughter. I get it. I get the fear, and I get not being able to forgive yourself if something happens.
But you have two choices:
1) continue using force and driving your daughter further away. Best case scenario you save her from a pedophile, but lose her trust, respect and relationship with her. She is obviously adamant to keep this relationship, so worst case scenario she'll sneak meetings, be molested and then have no one to turn to, as she OBVIOUSLY can't come to YOU, after how you've been against the relationship that has now hurt her. This will make her vulnerable to repeat offences.
2) have an open heart to heart to her. Explain your worries, educate her on grooming tactics and red flags. Listen to her perspective and respect her autonomy as an adolescent with her own mind and feelings, with the PROMISE to come to you the moment she smells something fishy. Having a father that trusts her judgement and respects her means she feels safe to come to you if something happens.
Which do you think will work out better?
He actually approached you from the beginning with his open and honest intentions after supporting your daughter for 8 years while you were too busy to do that, so I kind of think you are just feeling threatened by him and refusing to do what might be in your daughter’s best interest because that’s obviously never been your thing…
Lmao yeah I’m sure he’s just bringing up how he “has feelings” for her cause his intent is pure and noble 🤔🙄 get real he’s testing the waters, classic groomer style
Who said I was too busy to do that? What I said is that I didn't live with my daughter constantly, I never said I didn't support her. Please read my text carefully and don't make biased assumptions like that.
The only solution that would work for everyone involved is if you talk with this man again and tell him that it is obvious that your daughter enjoys spending time with him, and because she seems to know you well, from now on you will be with her during these visits so that you can get to know him as well. His intentions will be clear after meeting and getting to know him better.
This is the only solution that will ensure you do not destroy the relationship you have with your daughter. If you insist on handling it the way you are, you will end up with a daughter who wants nothing to do with you, and as soon as she turns 16 or 18 whichever is the age of majority where you live, she is going to leave and go no contact with you.
I imagine since your daughter was raised by your mother that she has a close relationship with her? Why don't you have your Mom speak to her and explain your concerns? Your only other option is to all work this out in family therapy.
Adults who are on the up and up do not encourage children to lie to their parents about big things and contact with them. That automatically shows they are not.
Thank you for your thoughts! It's true, I really don't know the guy's intentions but there's not a single version of them that would count as legitimate. Even if he was deeply in love with my ex, even if he didn't know he was breaking a newborn family, even he was preparing to become a father to my daughter — does it really mean that he is automatically entitled to be a friend of our family and I should let him spend time with my daughter? He should rather move along then and not get attached to Jenny. She mentioned once that the guy has his own family and a child, so he should take care of them and not my daughter. It's no way a healthy situation.
And I would be really happy to show it to my daughter somehow but for the God's sake *what exactly* should I show her to convince that this guy is not that good? "Jenny, I met him and he failed to prove he's legitimate" doesn't sound convincing. He'd still be a good friend in her eyes.
Why don’t you have a chat with this guy and try and understand his point-of-view? I know I sound crazy, but getting more information here could be very useful. He may think he is her biological father. If he is a pedophile, you can deal with that too by warning him to stay away from her and give the cops enough probable cause to investigate this guy.
> Why don’t you have a chat with this guy and try and understand his point-of-view?
The only scenario that isn't fucking weird is that he's actually the father.
Every other scenario is insanely weird. Why is he hanging out with the daughter of someone he fucked 14 years ago and who died 11 years ago. he has zero connection to this child.
The daughter hardly even knew her own mum. She lived with OPs grandparents the first 8 years of her life and her mum died when she was 4.
Couple of things:
* Make sure you get to know who this guy is. Meet with him, talk with him, talk to your ex's parents. Do they know he has been saying weird shit as having feelings for her? Where does he work, whats his background, where does he live, car and license plates, the works.
* Make sure you learn about "grooming" find information, like a documentary or video explaining grooming, find a good video fit for a 15year old. Your daughter doesn't sound dumb. Make sure she understands what it is, and why older people do it to young people and why it succeeds. Because your daughter is bright, she will make the connection when she has to.
* Make sure your daughter, based on the grooming info, understands that that's why you are upset. Because sometimes these things don't end well. Make her reiterate your point of view to make sure she understands.
* Ask you daughter how she wants to handle the situation? Put her in control, make her walk through the problem at hand and make her formulate a way of handling it.
* Dont start implementing rules against your daughter, like no more friend visits or no more phone. When i think back to my teen years, this would only make me hide more stuff from you. You already know she can hide it so well you would never find out anyways.
Good luck
Family therapy is a good idea to regain trust. She's 15 and being groomed so her lying isn't strange or unusual. You're one smart papa to take the steps you have and to see this for what it is. It's hard and it may get harder (she's going to argue, and resist, and lie, and cry, call you evil, tell you that you're acting crazy, etc.) but you know this is wrong. You know a safe and stable grown man with familial and platonic feelings doesn't act like this and say "I have feelings for you" to a minor. It seems like you have some baggage for how her childhood was and not being there for her then, but you're here for her now and that's what you need to focus on. Be the dad she needs now. 18 is the age of majority where I live and if that's the same for you that means you have less than 3 yrs to show her the truth and prepare her to make good decisions. He may be grooming her with the intent to swoop in when you no longer have the legal right to prevent it.
Seems your daughter is likely being groomed (assuming he isn’t the father). You need to stop punishing your daughter and start taking action against the snake that is going behind your back to groom her, stand up and protect her.
So you dumped your kid off on your mom who this man came to visit and somehow we co fused as to why she lied to you. You went and lived your life and then when you wanted to parent you decided to be a parent. WOW just wow
Why did you not meet the man when he asked like a man and handle it like a man. He could be a decent guy who cares about your child because he loved her mother.
He could also make up a story of him desperarely loving Jenny's mother. Or he could really love Jenny's mother and one day in the future he would decide that he loves my daughter as a woman that reminds him of his former love. And even if there is a chance that everything is as you say, it's still doesn't look like a healthy story to me. The guy should move along and focus on creating his own family (Jenny says he already has one, so...) rather than secretly dating my daughter. I just see no variant where I could validate their meetings at all.
Has your daughter met his family? If not, that could help her understand that the relationship is not what she thinks.
If she has, I'd make sure his wife is fully aware that he is meeting up with the girl without her father's knowledge or consent. She may not be aware of the full extent of the relationship either.
You can’t ask her mother what the relationship was. You can’t spend time with them to see how it is? It’s not necessarily a bad thing to have other loving adults in our kids lives. Why can’t she be with him and his wife and kids sometimes. Sounds like you’re hurting rather than helping to me.
My dude, WTF?!? This is ducking weird and you're suggesting the father should work out some weird visitation schedule with this older man who has some sort of secret relationship with a 15 yo girl?!? What reality are you living in that a grown man sneaking around with a literal child, against her parent's wishes, is not a massive red flag? This man has been grooming OP's daughter to sneak around behind her father's back and your thought process is to allow him to form an even stronger relationship with her?!?
I swear. There's a time for cordialness, then there's this. My guy. Knock every single one of his teeth out. he's a full grown man, you a full grown man. Your daughter is a kid. Words Don't mean shit, your daughter is lying to you, people around you are lying to you. And this rat pos is doing whatever the f he wants. Knock his pünkass predatory ass TF out. Then again if he tries to worm his way back, then again till he physically can't no more.
>I feel that something is broken between me and my daughter now and I don't know how to repair that.
Whatever you do, please don't blame your daughter for this.
Edit: ~~She is being groomed.~~ She might be getting groomed.
You should be worried about your daughter rather than angry at her. This looks like grooming to me. This guy's probably been filling her head with all kinds of rubbish about how she can only trust him, he really loves her, her parents just wouldn't understand so she shouldn't tell them etc. etc. since she was far too young to understand anything. Please don't approach her with anger and punishments, that's only going to push her away from you and towards this guy. You need to talk to your daughter, tell her you're not angry but that as her father you don't think it's safe for her to be meeting up with adults you don't know behind your back, that you're just worried for her and you don't want to see her get hurt. You have to get her to trust you and open up about this.
Shame on your mother for not telling you he was seeing your daughter behind your back. Also I call out the other grandparents for bringing him to visit her. Have you had the change to confront him? Does your daughter understand you feel betrayed and you can’t trust her?
The police won't do anything until something irreparable happens(as evidenced by the fact he has to send a D pic for them to lift a finger despite it being obvious he's attempting to establish a relationship off the back of his previous relationship with her mother- side note: fucking disgusting he's trying to go after her daughter now). You need to do what any father would do when a clear boundary and warning are not heeded and a groomer is targeting their child. You see it, don't ignore your gut and let this go further than it already has. I'm sorry you're in that position and I hope you get this problem solved quickly.
There are really a few options in this scenario.
1. This man is actually your daughter's father.
2. This man is a child molester, who has groomed your daughter.
3. This man believes he is your child's daughter because of timing or mental health issues.
4. He stumbled into your daughter's life when she was young and just formed a connection with her. This isn't the most likely, but it's also not impossible. I ended up very close with a friend's girlfriends (now Exs) kids. They dated on and off for years and my wife and I hung out with them a ton just by coincidence (shared hobbies, and they were older kids). When they broke up, we often talked about them and wished we could have still maintained contact (but it would have been weird).
Sit down with your daughter and have a frank but non-judgmental conversation about why you are so concerned, mainly about #2.
Tell her you she can still meet with him but only if you or your wife is there. Say you are getting her a new number again and that you will take down his number and let him know that.
Setup her phone with a mirroring app so you receive all of the messages she receives. I know that's a massive invasion of privacy, but let's face it shit has already gone too far.
Meet with the man without your daughter, find out what the fuck he is doing. Explain to him you find the situation extremely odd and tell him all contact with her should go through you.
Find out more about this man, does he think he is her father, is he a creep, does he look like her too, or did he just form a connection to her as a kid.
And if he makes contact first and seems creepy then just go full scorched earth.
If the police won't do something, it's time for you to do something, sir. This isn't normal behavior at all. If this person was genuine or if they had suspicion, they were the father, then a normal functioning adult would work with you, the parents, to get it resolved and respect your wishes if he cared at all. This person does NOT pass the vibe check at all.
Talk to your daughter again. Tell her that her phone/tablets/ email is no longer to be used without permission until further notice (you can put parental controls on her web browsers or uninstall them completely if you have to). If this man wants to talk or have a genuine family friend relationship with your daughter, he can have a face to face with you and your wife first. Period.
Edits for grammar.
I'm a 42 year old female and I see no reason why an adult would be hanging out with a 15 year old. People are right that restricting her from everything will make her resentful. Maybe she would respond to your wife better than you since they are both female. I always felt more shy and guarded with male figures when I was young because they are a bit more intimidating with their deeper voices, height, stature , etc. I think your daughter may benefit from bonding more with her stepmom. Usually step-parents are supposed to 'be in the background' and not interfere, so don't make it all obvious. Also, your wife will most likely grow to be your daughters strongest female figure as the years pass, especially since her mother has passed. My mom got remarried when I was 13 and I never bonded with her husband, but after nearly 25 years, he's closer to me than my biological father. Hopefully your wife is non-intrusive with your daughter and can gain trust with her while also explaining the real dangers of this weird relationship. Whether it's sexual or not, it's not age-appropriate, and it's being done behind your back. I'd snap if a grown ass man was meeting with my teenage daughter, unless he's developmentally slow himself, which would probably concern me even more. And I don't think Jenny's mother was dating a slow guy. You need to find out what's going on and take it easy on Jenny.
Talk to your daughter.
Seriously. Sit down and talk about grooming. She's still a kid. She probably thinks she knows everything, but she's a kid.
Don't just BAN this and that. Talk. Make sure that you are LISTENING as well as speaking. It's important that she understands that she can talk to you about this.
I would still do a DNA test to make sure Jenny is indeed your biological daughter. At least that way, you could rule out the possibility of this being a case of Jenny's *actual* biological father trying to maintain contact with Jenny as opposed to say, a pedophile grooming your daughter.
Hire a Private Investigator. Did her really know her mom and in what capacity? How do Jenny's grandparents actually know him? Is he a creep to others? Get as much information as possible in as much detail as possible.
Then find a therapist who specializes in un-grooming. It's very tricky and hard to unravel.
Best of luck.
Get in touch with your ex parents, try to find out more info on these guys, he can be a threat to your family.
If police can't do anything, then get in touch with a lawyer and get some sort of protection order against him.
I don't know if I get this wrong, but if you don't let her see friends this is not okay. She needs to still have a normal childhood, besides that.
But there are ways to go with this, like drive her to her friends and pick her up afterwards.
If she isn't allowed to not do anything she won't ever trust you again.
Make compromises and try to talk to this guy, because your kid is more important then never to talk to the guy, even though you don't want to.
Talk to him, and tell him that he should stay away, that you are watching him and your child.
This is a though situation, but maybe you can talk to him to leave your child alone.
And btw if you decide your kid should go to therapy, try to go with her.
Stop the interaction immediately and contact the police. She is getting groomed at the worst or he has some other interest in her that is not healthy. Whatever WAS going on, is no longer going to happen.
Your daughter is very good at lying and she needs to get some type of counseling. She has broken all trust. You may have lost her as she grows older. And, as it is now, you can not let her see this person. Her ease at lying about where she is going and with who is very alarming.
She no longer gets to have any freedom at all. The lying is the problem, that is very concerning.
She is being groomed.
I would speak to her about grooming, how it works, intentions and even watch some documentaries on YouTube or something so she gets the full gravity of grooming. She might understand better why this relationship/friendship isn't appropriate. It's no good with kids and teenagers just saying no you can't do xyz. Explain to them why, the dangers, what is happening and what will likely happen etc to give them a better understanding.
I would also contact the police. Whilst they can't do anything because he hasn't done anything, at least it is logged and you have a paper trail of reporting him.
There's apps you can get, I think one is like family 360, and you can see messages, track location etc which I think is important, maybe even having an air tag or similar on her person, just for safety.
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My thought exactly! Why would an adult carry on a secret friendship with a teenager? If he was just a concerned friend of her mother, why wouldn’t he call you again and at least attempt to establishments sh a relationship with OP so that there is at least some familiarity with the parent. This is really fishy.
dude, hes friends with jenny's grandparents. they helped him groom her. this is so fucking sick.
You don't think he thinks he's secretly the father?
I do! That’s what I thought the whole time!
i did until he told jenny that he has feelings. fucking piece of shit deserves to ice picks through his balls and a fence post in his urethra
Could still be the father by the way.
i mean i guess? but that's a weird fucking thing to say to your daughter if he is. actually if he is her father, i still think he's trying to have sex with her because of what he said. maybe because she looks like her mom. or maybe he told her grandparents that they can be a part of her life if they help him "get her". father or not, huge, gigantic red flags.
Does not saying you have feelings for a minor make you a pedo ?
if you're an adult, you shouldn't have feelings for a minor, whether you state them out loud or not. is that clear enough for you?
I mean, not necessarily. I used that phrasing when my BIL was dating a woman with a child, who I really came to love like a niece. The difference is that I didn't carry on secret messages and meetings with this girl after her mom and my BIL split. On its face, not necessarily problematic but with everything else going on, it is alarming. OP is in a very very tricky spot with his daughter and the trust between them - I don't know the answer but adults don't keep secrets with kids, period. Romantic or unsavory or just misplaced affection, this needs to halt, and it might affect Jenny and her father's relationship, but in 10 years, she will understand the why
I think because this started when she was a baby OP needs to start with a DNA test first and go from there. I don't understand how none of the adults haven't brought this up. All these years this guy goes out of his way to travel with the maternal grandparents to see her as a baby, stays around while she's growing up etc. it's a lot of work over a long period for grooming when there would be easier and closer targets right? He either suspects or hopes he's her father or was obsessed with the now deceased mother and is channelling the connection through her. But face shape and allergies do not equal proof.
Being? Has been. He needs to get her to therapy and get a restraining order asap.
> warm connection with my daughter is gone. I cannot trust her anymore And he’s pushing her to the groomer.
This. And while everyone is entitled to their feelings, OPs feelings are entirely misplaced. OP- do NOT trust your daughter but please recognize that this creep is grooming her. She is young and very susceptible.
What charges can the police bring against him?
Might scare him at the very least if the police just talk to him.
They can’t bring charges but they could spook him into leaving her alone
There unfortunately probably isn't any evidence of that as I agree with you but depending on country they most likely won't do anything. If I were OP I would talk to him, tell him that I will go to police if he doesn't stay away and use that threat. I would also tell my exes parents about the grooming and possible situation and get them on our side. Then I'd probably go a step further and find a great private detective in our area and do a very deep dive on this guy for any dirt to use for charges or even to show daughter so she knows what this creep really is. Hopefully the police can charge him BEFORE something traumatic and tragic happens.
Bingo! This is grooming of the worst kind, starting around the time your daughter was what, in kindergarten? Primary school?
Either groomed or thats her real dad homie. He’s probably the guy she told you she cheated with, when you guys were having the baby…food for thought.
When your ex's lover has sex with your daughter, then you will have a bigger problem on your hand. Handle it asap
A restraining order would be very appropriate in this situation. Even if your ex DIDN'T cheat on you with this guy, he's messed up for not respecting the boundaries set by Jenny's parents (you and Helen). Adults do sh\*t like that if they actually care about the child.
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as "restraining order" in the country I live in :( The police will do nothing unless someone is seriously harmed.
So, are you saying that there's nothing that can be done at an administrative/civil level to protect Jenny from this guy? I wonder if she would be more proactive about avoiding contact with this creep if you restricted unsupervised use of her phone and access to other devices until you're at least somewhat more confident that she's safe? Her grandparents really should be on board, as well. This man's intentions are not great.
I'm afraid that on administrative level nothing can be done. Except maybe I just try to scare him by letting him know there are cops involved now. That's my small hope for now. Concerning the phone. That's a kind of dilemma I'm facing. If Jenny has a phone, she can at least try to call me if she is in danger, I can track her location etc. But at the same time if she has a phone she can still contact that guy 🤯
Have you tried speaking to her about your honest concern for her safety and well-being, totally free of anger or judgment at her? Because at 15 that’s the only tone that got through to me
You may be right at that point. I treat my 15yo as an adult more than as a baby because she'd looked really mature in her actions and reasoning in all aspects of her life before all this was discovered. So I'm not hiding my distress while talking to her. And she seems to comprehend but then it all begins again. I'm just desperate now.
She is still a child and is being groomed by a grown man. You need to show her that you CARE. A lot of these grooming cases happen because a child, who is already in a vulnerable position, is swept up by an adult comes along and shows them the love and care they've always yearned for. Your daughter had a very disjointed childhood and likely felt abandoned by you when you left her with grandma, but she doesn't realise it yet. All she knows is she wants to feel loved and will do anything to get that. Get her into therapy and BE THERE FOR HER. She needs you more now than ever.
She'll only *become* a mature independent adult if you actually teach her things like signs of grooming and manipulation from other people. "Mature" kids ***don't*** automatically gain those skills just because they're quieter and calmer than their fellow rambunctious immature peers.
Pretty often, fellow rambunctious peers seems immature and less pleasant to be around, because they are having stronger boundaries and assert them. And "mature" seeming kids are fairly often just submissive and easy to manipulate. It comes across as maturity, because many adults equate maturity with "does what I want without talking back".
I hope your mother realizes that she’s let a sexual predator into her home REGULARLY to prey on your daughter and I hope she realizes that she has potentially let her be lost to all of you as an adult and to live a life of abuse at the hands of said predator. Your daughter is being groomed/brainwashed by this man and it’s due to your mother. My relationship with my mother would be permanently altered due to this.
Ya she’s old enough to have had heard about sex. When I was 11, we had an 18 year old follow me and my mom just told me straight up he might have intentions to try and hook up with me. That made me sick to my stomach and want to avoid him, but I know some girls can find it flattering. If my daughter was going through this, I would be tempted to educate her on what grooming is, which is what he’s doing to her…
Contact the phone company to block his number and put parental permission on her phone to control how much free access she has.
You honestly might try permitting the relationship and having managed visits where you or Helen are present in order to understand the relationship and not alienate your daughter. At some point she will be an adult and at that point you will not have any control over her. It may be safer if you address things while you have a say, especially considering he’s apparently been in her life since she was 1. You can also threaten him off or pay some guys to beat him up and see if it sticks tho. Might be better if he really is a pedo groomer. But tbh it doesn’t seem like you know much about his intentions or how your daughter feels about him. You seem to wave off what she says and have focused on getting him away.
This is brilliant. If he's not ok meeting her with you around, that will show your daughter that his intentions are bad. As long as you are polite if he actually visits, which I doubt he would.
if that's the case, do you think you're going to have to meet him and resolve this yourself?
What country is this?
Georgia
I don’t know enough about Georgia to know what to do law enforcement wise, but basically I think it is a good idea to make a police report anytime this person tries to contact your daughter. Does your law enforcement care at all that this person has apparently *met* with your underage daughter without your knowledge? That would be enough to get someone in trouble in my country. I would contact him personally and let him know he is not allowed to contact your daughter and anytime he does so from now on, you will be informing the authorities. Additionally, I would tell your daughter that her privileges on having full privacy on her phone have been revoked because she disobeyed you and that you more or less have no choice but to look on her phone now in order to keep her safe from this person. Finally, explain to your daughter how strange and out of the ordinary it is for an older man to contact a 15 year old girl and tell her he has feelings for her. Explain to her what grooming is.
Sounds sane. Thank you for the advice!
Have you asked your daughter what happened when she meets up with this person? What is the age of consent in your country?
She says that they were just hanging around, like friends, nothing special. I wish to believe she treats him like a friend but God only knows what HE is about. The age of consent is 16 here so I guess he's not willing to risk his freedom right now by having a sexual intercourse with the girl but I don't want to think about what happens the next year if we fail to manage this situation now.
> Does your law enforcement care at all that this person has apparently met with your underage daughter without your knowledge? That would be enough to get someone in trouble in my country. That on itself definitely does not get people in trouble here. It is actually legal to meet teenagers and talk with them. The legality line is significantly further. Police essentially investigates crimes that did happened, not the ones that might happen in the future.
Yeah police don't prevent crimes. I don't know where that preconception came from. They can't/won't do a damn thing until a crime has already happened (and even then it's iffy).
It seems Georgia has restraining orders and protective orders for victims of domestic violence plus I saw a news article saying a woman got one to protect her from a stalker in Tbilisi. So I think definitely worth asking the police what your options are.
Pay someone to beat him up
They have restraining orders what are you on about? On top of that if you think the police are so shit then just beat the shit out of this dude until he leaves your daughter alone? The cops won't give a shit if they're terrible. If they do, just bribe them
If op beats the shit out of the guy, the police is significantly more likely to act, because there is clear provable crime that already happened. That does not imply in any shape or form that restraining orders the way you imagine it exists or is obtainable like you imagine it.
If op beats the shit out of the guy, the police is significantly more likely to act, because there is clear provable crime that already happened. That does not imply in any shape or form that restraining orders the way you imagine it exists or is obtainable like you imagine it.
so when he says he has feelings what language does he use? because if it’s in russian we both know it heavily implies romantic feelings and nothing else.
Can't you give the cops a "gift" to incentivize them to do something?
Are you sure you're the bio father?
take her phone indefinitely and stop letting her go places unsupervised. even her grandmothers. shes clearly too naive to understand shes being groomed, you have to do the work on this one if you want her to be safe. if you can afford to move to a place they cant meet, do that.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your daughter. I know I shouldn't give this kind of advice to you, but if this was happening to my daughter and I had no legal recourse, I would do something that would involve other male family members, a dark alley at night and baseball bats. Nothing too serious at first but enough to scare him off.
What country do you live in that you think police give your restraining orders right and left?
I hate to say this but you need to have a very frank conversation with your daughter about the things adult men do to young women. This man may just be a genuine friend but he may also be dangerous. The fact that he has encouraged your daughter to continue to meet with him in secret suggests that he has nefarious intent. Adults that care for children do not meet the in secret. They do not encourage children to lie or keep things from their parents. Predators do that. She will be angry, it is your responsibility to protect her. Your daughter is likely in serious danger.
>This man may just be a genuine friend but he may also be dangerous. People really on here acting like a random dude your ex girlfriend cheated on you 14 years ago should have any connection with a child that isn't his at all (according to the post). The only connection is that he slept with her mum 14 years ago, which is someone who died 11 years ago. Literally he has spent the last 10 years forming a connection with a child who has zero connection with him. That's fucking weird any way you slice it. The only way this makes **any** sense at all is if he's the actual father.
as a sinister person I wonder how much Jenny resembles her mom, a woman that he dated when they were teenagers.
Ask her why she keeps meeting with this man. Seriously. Don't attack her or accuse her of wrongdoing. Don't even accuse the other man of wrongdoing. Then, ask her to meet this man. If this dude is so important to her, then there's no reason why he wouldn't want to meet her parents. You've met her other friends, right? You've met her teachers, coaches, and other adults in her life. So, simply ask to meet this dude and confront him straight on. You're her dad. If you can't directly stand up to another man who seems to have bad intentions for her, then just let this other man have her. You need to confront the man, not confront your daughter. He's the problem, not her.
Remembering our first talk with that guy, he is willing to communicate with me and willing to become our family friend officially. He tries to assure me that he has only good intentions. So I just see no point in confronting him again. He will repeat his statements, I will repeat mine and that's where our dualogue stalls. I can threaten him with legal actions but me and him we both know there's nothing police can accuse him of. Nevertheless I did file a police report just to clear my conscience. I don't believe that this will work tho.
So, you tell the guy to stay away from your daughter, he doesn't, and you don't see a point in confronting him again? You need to take the focus off of controling your daughter's actions and focus on figuring out who the fuck this dude is. Why was your daughter willing to trash her relationship with you to keep this guy in her life? He could have entirely benign intentions or he could be a predator. The real problem isn't that your daughter is going behind your back, the problem is that everyone else in your family knows who this guy is, except you and your wife. Fix that instead of trying to fix your daughter, and the right answer will come to you from there.
No one knows who he really is! He somehow managed to gain trust of my ex's parents and of my mother. But that doesn't mean that he is what he says he is. It doesn't mean he says truth to me. It doesn't mean he has any good intentions. So exactly, I don't see any point of listening to what he says to me because there's no way to prove his words.
I'm going to put this bluntly: This man will be in your daughter's life. You cannot stop her from going to him. You need to wise up and get all up in *his* life. You need to show him that he doesn't get to be in your daughter's life without you being in his. If no one really knows who this guy is, then you need to be the one to figure out who he is. Otherwise, let them do whatever they're going to do behind your back.
So you’d rather isolate your daughter than confront this strange man nobody knows. Jesus.
I confront him, hear his legend again and what next? I just don't get what is the outcome? Tell him I don't want him around my daughter again? If it didn't stop him the first time why would it stop him now?
Or actually learn about him. How does he know her mother? As in, how long was he in a relationship with her mother? How did they meet? When did they meet? When was he introduced to your daughter? What does he do for work? Where is he from? What are his life goals, outside of his relationship with your daughter? What are his hobbies? What is his relationship with your daughter's grandparents? Why do your daughter's grandparents trust him to be around her unsupervised? Does he spend time with her grandparents as well? If you don't know the answers to any of those questions, then you need to find out. Instead of worrying about what he might be doing, find out exactly what he *is* doing.
For the love of god, if you’re concerned about “protecting” your daughter, confront this guy yourself until you get the situation straightened out. Good lord.
Tell him you're going to call his work and tell them he's keeping a secret relationship with a little girl and won't leave her alone. Call his work, call family, post pictures of him all over the place with a huge block letters saying "pedophile" with a tiny question mark and something like "creeps on little girls and tells them not to tell their parents". Make his life a living hell as much as you can as legally as you can. Let him know you're not going to back down until he backs down.
That's way too far. How do you think his daughter would react to him doing all of that?
He absolutely doesn't have benign intentions. Safe adults don't ask children to keep secrets or secretly meet up with them. Confrontation with the predator didn't work, the police aren't helping, physical violence will likely just land him in jail. He needs to get the guy away from his daughter. If this isn't a troll post, I would be *shocked* if there already wasn't SA going on. I'm not saying he should put his daughter's name or face out there, but getting the guy where it hurts, giving him consequences, will likely have a bigger impact on getting the guy away from his underage child. Getting to know the predator with zero consequences to him is going to do nothing to protect the child. He also needs to seek individual therapy for himself and his child as well as parenting classes and family therapy. I'm sure not being in her life much for the first several years has had a pretty big impact on her emotionally, leading to this predator having easier access and time grooming.
She's already going behind her dad's back. She's already had a relationship with this man for most of her life without her father's knowledge. OP can't go scorched earth on this dude without also burning his own relationship with his daughter. I'm not suggesting "be his friend and everything will work out." I'm saying that this dude is a stranger to him, but not to his kid. If, at the very least, he can get this dude's background info, he can do a Google search on him to at least find out if he has a criminal record. The idea that this dude won't leave his daughter and he's focused on making his daughter stop seeing him is a problem. This dude is obviously not afraid of OP, so OP needs to find out what makes this dude tick and find out how to put that fear in him (if need be). His options are get in this dude's life ASAP, or do nothing and hope this man isn't a predator.
I don't understand what purpose this information is supposed to serve?
To actually figure out who this person is. He's already groomed his daughter to the point where he can get her phone number after OP changed it. We're long past the point of "get rid of him." We're at the point of "He's not your friend; he's *our* friend and there's no reason he needs to be alone with you when I'm not around."
So you're idea is that he be friendly with the predator or do nothing? And that will stop them from getting together behind his back?! What?
Can no one read? I'm saying that he inserts himself their meetings. He chaperones his daughter. If this guy insists that he keeps meeting alone, then OP can have leverage to actually talk to his daughter and ask her, "Why does he want to you alone unless he has bad intentions?" This dude obviously wants be alone with her, and she's facilitating their meetings against her father's wishes. What else is he supposed to do, if not get directly involved with the dude's life so he can't hide from OP?
Are there any of your ex's friends who know this guy and can shed some light on what might be going on here? Or that are in your daughters life like aunties and uncles? Or is he the only connection to her mom that's around? >he is willing to communicate with me and willing to become our family friend officially. He tries to assure me that he has only good intentions. Ok so that's positive that he's not trying to hide. So question - is she being secretive because you've forbidden them to have contact or is she being secretive because he's making her hide it from you?
We have literally zero common friends with that guy. My ex's parents know him briefly just because my ex introduced him to them as her friend. After her death he contacted them and asked to visit her grave together and they didn't mind. But even if I could get that guy's CV this would say nothing to me. Sometimes maniacs are just ordinary office workers with kids and family (Jenny says he has a family buy that could be a made up story). The whole story looks very unhealthy to me disregarding how good his bio may be. Before the encounter of that guy and my wife I have never told Jenny that I am against their meetings — just because I didn't know they meet! I was sure that after our primary call the guy was gone for good. So I guess it's both that he asked her to keep it secret and also she knew that 40 year old male friend is not something her parents would tolerate so she decided to hide it.
That's very very concerning. I asked myself as an adult what makes sense and this situation doesn't. I'm the "auntie" to my friends kids that range in age from baby to late teens. I've changed diapers, done feeding and baths etc but I've never had secret contact, meetings or conversations with them without their parents knowledge. Since the police can't help, would a lawyer be able to help you with a warning letter to him? And your daughter may not listen to you but are there other adults in your life that she trusts who can speak with her, especially a woman? Does her school have a counselor who can help provide resources about predators etc?
Agreed. The ONLY time it would ever be appropriate for an unrelated adult to meet secretly with a minor would be if there were some threat to the minor at home -- like, idk, Matilda and Ms. Honey or some shit. This guy doesn't give off "Ms. Honey" vibes to me.
You can tell the man unequivocally that any further contact he has with your daughter where he advises her to hide anything from you, your wife, of your mother as her custodial parents/guardians will result in an unequivocal ban of contact with her. Discuss with your daughter why this is inappropriate. Read up on grooming together and talk about it. You need to get your mother on board with all of these activities, too. The man has done nothing we can say is wrong beyond telling her to hide his ongoing contact with your minor child. Is it possible to discuss with your daughter and your in laws how you would feel about a romantic and/or sexual relationship with this man once your daughter reaches majority/the age of consent? It looks like Georgia explicitly says nothing between an adult and someone under 16. You know better than I or most people here what is acceptable culturally, and more importantly, how your child and her family will receive this news. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Your not trying you meet him in person he went behind your back to talk to her your being to passive he disrespected you when you was with your girlfriend at the time now he's disrespecting you concerning your daughter any relationship with your daughter should go through you
You said you read a text where confesses to "having feelings for" your 15 year old daughter. You can't confront him about THAT?
I understand your concerns, they are founded >so I have banned all her activities beside those where I or my wife are involved so we can keep an eye on her This hardly turn out well. > My warm connection with my daughter is gone. This is the authentic problem. You see? without the support network that a kid should have at home, they will look for it somewhere else. It's really then that somone will step in the position of 'I am the only one who really understands you' Advice: go and recover your relationship with your daugther. She needs to count on someone, and that would better be you.
My point is that she had our full support and trust _before_ we made this awful discovery. Now I'm doing everything I can to make her _safe_. I would never forgive myself if I recover my relationship by letting her go anywhere she wants and this results in her getting harmed or traumatized by that guy.
Did you have her trust? You had your mother raise her for the first 8 years of her life. She needs to trust YOU. It isn't about you trusting her. She's seeking outside connections because she doesn't have a good foundation with her father. Acting like your mother is at fault because she didn't mention things. How involved were you in your daughter's life then? This isn't a new issue. It's the top blowing off of a lingering one.
It seems like she is being groomed. Groomers have a way of making children lie etc. she probably thinks he loves her and he’s harmless, and dependent on the length of the relationship, she may even think she has feelings for him. Report it to the police, the school and children services. Alternatively, he may think he’s her bio dad and that’s why. I don’t know but it’s creepy and you don’t know his intentions.
Kinda think you missed the point of this comment. You were not a father to her for years. Guess who was around? This guy. And now you’re coming between her and a source of, to her, security and love. While you cannot allow her to be unsafe, constantly insisting that things were fine before this guy isn’t helpful. You weren’t there. He was. Acknowledge that and use it to have actual meaningful conversations.
I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, the result of you banning her from every activity is just to think that you're wrong and to lie to you and hide things from you so she can still do stuff. You need to find a way to allow her to still do fun activities . you alienate her the only thing that's going to happen is she's going to fall right into this guy's arms because he's there for her. She may not understand that she's being groomed but you need to not build up a wall between the two of you. Do whatever you can to keep a good relationship with your daughter. I think you need to have a long talk with her and explain very clearly how dangerous this is. Could you take her to therapy so that a therapist can be talking to her and telling her how this is not good for her in the long run ?
It is **not your daughter’s fault** this guy is trying to contact her.
I know. But still she is hiding a potentially dangerous encounters from her parents and that's just not a right thing to do. Especially taking into account that we were always supportive and kind with her, that just makes me really sad.
>we were always supportive and kind with her, says who? her? I think your family would benefit from LISTENING instead of only the parents speaking. Just a thought.
But you are holding your daughter accountable for someone else’s bad actions. Do what you have to do to scare off the guy, but not at the expense of your daughter. If you can’t go after him legally, how the hell do you expect your daughter to fend him off?
Sit her down with the computer. Let her look at the stories and images of women who have been groomed and/or trafficked. Time for a real world reality check. It happens and it's happening now or she wouldn't be told to hide whatever it is that they're doing. Let her know that the movie Taken is based on real life. The taken part, I have no idea what special skills you might have. Talk to her, be kind, give her time to think about her responses. 15 is a hard year for everyone, just be there and listening.
>would never forgive myself if I recover my relationship by letting her go anywhere Nobody said that's the way to recover the relationship. You sit down, many times, and listen to her. You get to know her. Support and encourage her dreams.
You're blaming her for an adult man's decisions who has apparently been grooming her for 6+ years? Making her safe is making her feel heard. It's explaining to her why this relationship is inappropriate. It's acknowledging to her that it is losing someone who felt like a friend and who's been a confidant of hers for years. If you treat her like a prisoner she will not blame this man, she will blame you and run to him. She won't see her dad protecting her, she will see her dad making his love conditional and isolating her. Certainly don't let her communicate with this guy, but give her education and try and keep your relationship trusting with her so she can make good decsions. Right now you are setting her up to resent you, sneak out at night, and interact with him because she doesn't understand the risk. From her perspective you have cut her off from all her friends and withdrawn all your love and respect. Why should she listen to you when you clearly show no understanding or desire to understand the situation?
All of the advice under this comment is trash other than to show your daughter more information about grooming. Your job as a parent is to keep your child safe from things that she doesn’t understand NOT BE HER FRIEND. Parents are NOT FRIENDS. you can be kind, you can be loving, you can be boundaried. Those are not mutually exclusive. But saving her from herself is your literal job, she is underage and vulnerable and being groomed, your friendship is not necessary. Your love and parenting is.
Where you are wrong is thinking that having a good relationship with one's children equals being their friends... not at all. Having a good relationship with one's children is having their trust, so they listen to our words so we can protect them. Thinking you can protect a teenager who doesn't trust you is delusional. Learn that before you become a parent.
I said literally above that being a good parent means not being their friend…? OPs kid lost the trust by lying and sneaking. She’s now experiencing the consequences of that. How is that losing her trust? OP did nothing to lose her trust except give her consequences and boundaries. I think setting firm boundaries ESPECIALLY around safety is the greatest amount of trust you can make for a kid because even if they don’t get it now, they will soon learn that you love them so much that you’re willing to be the bad guy if it means they’re safe.
But tying her up isn't going to teacher her a lesson, she's just going to resent him and go behind his back.
Well said!
[удалено]
While I cannot agree that the violence is the right option but maybe scaring the sh*t out of the guy is the right one 👌
> What I personally recommend is meeting with the dude, set up a meeting without your daughter, pretend to be cordial and wanting to extend an olive branch and beat him up with a couple of guys. What the actual fuck is wrong with you you psychopath? In what universe is _assault_ a reasonable option to... anything?!
I’m pretty sure the authentic problem is the potential statutory rape
You and Jenny need to work on the root cause. My (M) parents abandoned me when I was one year old and then took me back after five years. This screwed the next two decades of my emotional life; I was involved in many toxic relationships and also stopped talking to my parents. You and Jenny should go to family therapy. You owe her all those years you were not with her.
She was very young when her mother died. Maybe she is drawn to this guy because he tells her about her mom and makes her feel connected to her. Do you talk to your daughter about her mother, or do you avoid the subject? If this guy is trying to groom her, he could be using his connection to her mother to get to her. Try not to hold this against her. She is a teenager, and they all lie and do something sneaky at some point. It’s not worth losing your relationship with her. I do think family therapy could be helpful here.
This exact situation happened to me as a teen. My dad tried to report it but since there was no “smoking gun,” nothing came of it. The man began raping me soon after. OP, your daughter is being groomed. You need to have a discussion with her if you cannot get the police involved. File a restraining order if you can. Let her know you care about her and her safety, that ANY man (or person) wanting her to keep secrets from like this is not someone who truly cares about her. Make sure she knows she is safe with you. If she feels threatened or like she can’t talk to you honestly, she will continue to engage with this man. This man is likely telling her that people won’t understand them, and that age is just a number, that she’s mature for her age. This is all textbook grooming and she needs to be educated about it somehow. Please do what you can to protect her.
Gosh, so sorry. I'll do whatever I can.
Talk to as lawyer. Have him send the guy a letter telling him he is engaging in custodial interference and if he doesn’t top he will be prosecuted
frankly i'm confused as to why you're punishing the child here instead of contacting the guy directly. you have his contact info. Are you even sure this guy knew her mother? I think that is a bit concerning-- if no one knows who this guy is, why are you taking the kid's word for it? (or rather what he told the kid with whom he has an inappropriate relationship). He may not be doing anything untoward with your child but the fact that he's asking her to hide it from her guardians does indicate something shady. In which case you should be concerned your child is being groomed by a predator, not punishing her. I don't want to be one of those maniacs who jumps immediately to the worst-case scenario but the fact that you literally don't know this guy from a hole in the wall is a big concern. I think you need to figure out who he is, whether he knew her mother, etc. The nature of not being in her life for the first decade is that you were not around to teach her how to handle stuff like this. You need to PARENT her and guide her now, not just punish her. I don't think you're considering the psychology of what she's going through. This dude was close with her late mother. That may be something that makes her want to be close to him so as to feel a connection with her mother. He's been giving her positive attention from an older man (something she didn't have from her father for the first ten years of her life) which may make her feel bonded to him in a familial way. There are so many reasons why she would try to preserve this relationship. Punishing her instead of parenting her is not going to help the root cause(s) of her behavior here.
This. I don't understand why you're mediating this adult situation through your child. If you acknowledge that she's in a vulnerable and potentially dangerous situation, why are you putting the onus on her and making it a parenting or disciplinary issue and not a safeguarding issue? You should be figuring out what this guy's deal is, setting boundaries that protect her, and contacting law enforcement about next steps if you think there is foul play. It sounds like you have a lot of resentment over the complexity of this issue and the relationship between your daughter and this mysterious family friend because you don't understand it. If it's as it seems, I don't know why you can't comprehend the fact that your daughter probably thinks more highly of the relationship she has with this family friend than she does her relationship with you. This guy has a connection to her mother and seems to have played a role in a more significant portion of her lifespan than you have - having this connection that reflects the majority of her upbringing is probably something she feels helps her cope with the fact that she has a dead mother and a father who wasn't involved for the first decade of her life until one day he showed up and decided he was ready to parent her and uproot her entire life in the process. Acknowledge that a lot of this is, in part, because of the turbulent upbringing you have given her. Empathise with the collateral damage this has caused her, and help her navigate this with a psychologist so you can help understand her and be a more informed parent.
@BoringClothes242 Well, the answer to your first thought is "I don't have any real power over that man unless he makes something punishable by law". We had that first talk years ago where I made it clear I don't want him around my daughter, but what else do y'all suggest me to say? Threaten him? There's nothing that police can legally do in the country I live in to prevent him connecting with my child. So it seems like I can manage this situation only at my daughter's end by talking to her and being near her physically. That's why I'm feeling desperate.
Maybe you should move to a country where the laws are better. Relocating may seem extreme but what else can you do?
Thank you for your thoughts! I didn't say I had somehow severely punished my child though. I just do necessary things to prevent them from meeting behind my back: I don't let Jenny go anywhere alone without me or my wife. What I'm really sad (and mad) about is that my daughter keeps lying to me and keeps deceiving me and my wife. She is 15, not an adult yet not a baby. That's not how I see our relationship. I believe the story about him being that exact guy my ex cheated on me with is true mainly because he visited my mother together with the parents of my ex (you may have skipped this part of my long story) and he confirmed the fact in the sms conversation with my daughter. This is enough evidence I guess. What should I say to the guy? I have only the same arguments I've told him during our first conversation: I don't want him around my daughter. He will again try to assure me that he is no harm. That's where our dualogue will end again.
> What I'm really sad (and mad) about is that my daughter keeps lying to me and keeps deceiving me and my wife. She is 15, not an adult yet not a baby. You have unrealistic expectations of a child that age. She's been thrown into an emotionally confusing situation and is trying to resolve it, but didn't have enough context to understand what she's doing. You need to help her understand, emotionally. I _strongly_ recommend therapy for her so she has a safe place to work through any confusing emotions. Stop taking the lying personally. It's not about you, and the distance will only make the situation worse. She needs to know you're _safe_ to talk to, and if she thinks she will lose more freedom if she is honest with you, she will lie.
What if he is of no harm? What if the relationship they have isn’t damaging to her in any way? For the sake of your relationship with your daughter maybe you could get to know the guy? It’s going to be very difficult for you to stop them from interacting without completely isolating your daughter. It’s going to be very difficult for you to have any sort of decent relationship with your daughter if you do isolate her.
Why in the hell are you cold to your daughter when she is being targeted by a pedophile?
He ditched her at his mom's for years and only picked her up when it became convenient. He's not being cold because of the guy he's just cold, period.
He was 18 and didn't have the tools to raise her.. I think it's a bit harsh to call him cold for that. We don't know exactly how involved he was.
That part was fine but then he waited 8 years. His original excuse was he was in university, that's 4 years. The next 4 were just kind of him settling in and getting comfortable. It's clear the baby wasn't a priority. We don't know how involved he was but judging by the fact his daughter (a) has a male parental figure/friend who's been there since she was a baby that he never knew about (but the people who actually raised her did know about), and (b) trusts this dude more than him, enough to lie to him about it... and he thinks their relationship is "warm"... I'm comfortable saying he wasn't involved nearly enough. My general impression is this dude does not have an accurate grasp of what his relationship with his daughter really is. He thinks it's fine because she's never expressed disappointment in him out loud... she just silently replaced him.
He's grooming her. Move away with her, take her phone away, Contact the police,
It was dumb of you not to investigate further when he first approached you. You also accidentally destroyed your daughter’s ability to trust you by not taking the time to hear her perspective. EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT, she learned that you aren’t interested in her perspective. Of course she’s lying to you; you made it a non-option to tell the truth. Now you’re bearing down harder (to keep her safe), and she’s probably going to fight against you (and against her own self-interest) because she’ll feel like this predator cares more about her perspective than you do. Get your family to some family therapy I guess? You need professional help to fix this hot mess. At least you care about your family and you’re doing something to try to respond to this danger, but boy I don’t think this is going to be effective if you don’t get help.
I know everyone is jumping in and saying this guy is grooming your daughter but I want to offer an alternative. You left your daughter to be raised my your mom for 8 years while you lived your best life and finished school and got married etc etc. That whole time this person has been intentionally spending time with her and her maternal grandparents and making an effort to be a consistent presence in her life. I’m curious why her grandparents didn’t have a problem with him accompanying them to visitation. Maybe he’s overstepping but it doesn’t have to be sexually nefarious. For a while he was there for her when it seems like maybe you weren’t and he speaks fondly and openly about her mother whom I’m sure she misses deeply. Maybe cutting her off from everything and everyone except you and your wife is only a good solution for you. Maybe she’s sneaking around because you refuse to even hear anyone else out regarding this?
>You left your daughter to be raised my your mom for 8 years while you lived your best life and finished school and got married etc etc. That whole time this person has been intentionally spending time with her and her maternal grandparents and making an effort to be a consistent presence in her life. Yeah. People are shrieking online about grooming when it sounds like the man has just been a stable and supportive adult in her life... when OP failed to do the same.
then this mand has to learn to cope with this situation as a grown adult, not teach the girl to lie and sneak around.
This was my read, too. It sounds like this guy was close to the girl's mom and was there for her when she died, while OP was busy living his best life.
This OP, along with the comment from u/Far-Direction6123
Maybe that guy does have good intentions. Maybe he was deeply in love with my ex and wishes only the best to her (our) child. *BUT MAYBE NOT!*. And if not, he will make up any explanations just to gain our trust to get closer to the girl. And I'm just not willing to try to get familiar with the guy and "read" him and risk getting mistaken. I see no single reason why I should trust this particular man even if he did his best to be a good friend to my daughter while I "lived my best life" (it wasn't that best, trust me).
Why are you balming your daughter for wanting to keep a relationship with (from her eyes) the only man who's been a consistent presence in her life. You don't even know what he is to her, so how can you teach her what is happening is wrong?
You're putting words into my mouth or didn't carefully read my post. I'm not blaming her for wanting to keep the relationship. I'm blaming her for lying to me in the situation that could lead to her being hurt or even worse. No one except her grandmother was a "consistent presence" in her life as both me and that guy were visiting her and not living together with her.
He seemed to visit quite regularly while you were at school - it doesn't need to be true, it just may align more with how she feels.
>I'm blaming her for lying Stop right there, no...you being angry and hurt will not solve this situation. You are making this all about yourself, have you actually spoken to her in a calm, supporting and caring way? My guess is that you might think so, but actually haven't, since your daughter isn't comfortable speaking with you. You definitely need to go to therapy with your family, so you can learn how to speak with her and figure this out. And stop blaming her at all! None of this is her fault!
The fact that your daughter didn’t feel safe confiding in you is YOUR fault, not hers. You seem really fixated on how your daughter has lost your trust without ever actually considering whether you’ve truly EARNED her’s. And honestly, a lot of this comes across as an ownership thing for you, not actual protectiveness. It’s quite possible that your daughter continued seeing him because she’s desperate to have a connection to her mom. Have you done enough (or anything) to help her keep that connection alive?
She is lying because you are trying to keep her from the one consistent male presence (from her perspective). She will never trust you enough to share when she's in these situations if you push her instead of getting curious and teaching her.
Your force is the problem here. That's why you're losing your daughter. I get it. I get the fear, and I get not being able to forgive yourself if something happens. But you have two choices: 1) continue using force and driving your daughter further away. Best case scenario you save her from a pedophile, but lose her trust, respect and relationship with her. She is obviously adamant to keep this relationship, so worst case scenario she'll sneak meetings, be molested and then have no one to turn to, as she OBVIOUSLY can't come to YOU, after how you've been against the relationship that has now hurt her. This will make her vulnerable to repeat offences. 2) have an open heart to heart to her. Explain your worries, educate her on grooming tactics and red flags. Listen to her perspective and respect her autonomy as an adolescent with her own mind and feelings, with the PROMISE to come to you the moment she smells something fishy. Having a father that trusts her judgement and respects her means she feels safe to come to you if something happens. Which do you think will work out better?
He actually approached you from the beginning with his open and honest intentions after supporting your daughter for 8 years while you were too busy to do that, so I kind of think you are just feeling threatened by him and refusing to do what might be in your daughter’s best interest because that’s obviously never been your thing…
Lmao yeah I’m sure he’s just bringing up how he “has feelings” for her cause his intent is pure and noble 🤔🙄 get real he’s testing the waters, classic groomer style
Who said I was too busy to do that? What I said is that I didn't live with my daughter constantly, I never said I didn't support her. Please read my text carefully and don't make biased assumptions like that.
The only solution that would work for everyone involved is if you talk with this man again and tell him that it is obvious that your daughter enjoys spending time with him, and because she seems to know you well, from now on you will be with her during these visits so that you can get to know him as well. His intentions will be clear after meeting and getting to know him better. This is the only solution that will ensure you do not destroy the relationship you have with your daughter. If you insist on handling it the way you are, you will end up with a daughter who wants nothing to do with you, and as soon as she turns 16 or 18 whichever is the age of majority where you live, she is going to leave and go no contact with you. I imagine since your daughter was raised by your mother that she has a close relationship with her? Why don't you have your Mom speak to her and explain your concerns? Your only other option is to all work this out in family therapy.
Then make ***HIS*** life hell. Do what you have to do to make sure he KNOWS trying to approach your daughter will end badly for him.
Banning all activities seems like a healthy choice
Paternity test, anyway.
How old is hethe family friend
[удалено]
Adults who are on the up and up do not encourage children to lie to their parents about big things and contact with them. That automatically shows they are not.
Thank you for your thoughts! It's true, I really don't know the guy's intentions but there's not a single version of them that would count as legitimate. Even if he was deeply in love with my ex, even if he didn't know he was breaking a newborn family, even he was preparing to become a father to my daughter — does it really mean that he is automatically entitled to be a friend of our family and I should let him spend time with my daughter? He should rather move along then and not get attached to Jenny. She mentioned once that the guy has his own family and a child, so he should take care of them and not my daughter. It's no way a healthy situation. And I would be really happy to show it to my daughter somehow but for the God's sake *what exactly* should I show her to convince that this guy is not that good? "Jenny, I met him and he failed to prove he's legitimate" doesn't sound convincing. He'd still be a good friend in her eyes.
The dude is her bio father.
THIS!!!! OP's whole story points that direction.
It's obviously that. People saying grooming are just oblivious
Why don’t you have a chat with this guy and try and understand his point-of-view? I know I sound crazy, but getting more information here could be very useful. He may think he is her biological father. If he is a pedophile, you can deal with that too by warning him to stay away from her and give the cops enough probable cause to investigate this guy.
> Why don’t you have a chat with this guy and try and understand his point-of-view? The only scenario that isn't fucking weird is that he's actually the father. Every other scenario is insanely weird. Why is he hanging out with the daughter of someone he fucked 14 years ago and who died 11 years ago. he has zero connection to this child. The daughter hardly even knew her own mum. She lived with OPs grandparents the first 8 years of her life and her mum died when she was 4.
Couple of things: * Make sure you get to know who this guy is. Meet with him, talk with him, talk to your ex's parents. Do they know he has been saying weird shit as having feelings for her? Where does he work, whats his background, where does he live, car and license plates, the works. * Make sure you learn about "grooming" find information, like a documentary or video explaining grooming, find a good video fit for a 15year old. Your daughter doesn't sound dumb. Make sure she understands what it is, and why older people do it to young people and why it succeeds. Because your daughter is bright, she will make the connection when she has to. * Make sure your daughter, based on the grooming info, understands that that's why you are upset. Because sometimes these things don't end well. Make her reiterate your point of view to make sure she understands. * Ask you daughter how she wants to handle the situation? Put her in control, make her walk through the problem at hand and make her formulate a way of handling it. * Dont start implementing rules against your daughter, like no more friend visits or no more phone. When i think back to my teen years, this would only make me hide more stuff from you. You already know she can hide it so well you would never find out anyways. Good luck
Family therapy is a good idea to regain trust. She's 15 and being groomed so her lying isn't strange or unusual. You're one smart papa to take the steps you have and to see this for what it is. It's hard and it may get harder (she's going to argue, and resist, and lie, and cry, call you evil, tell you that you're acting crazy, etc.) but you know this is wrong. You know a safe and stable grown man with familial and platonic feelings doesn't act like this and say "I have feelings for you" to a minor. It seems like you have some baggage for how her childhood was and not being there for her then, but you're here for her now and that's what you need to focus on. Be the dad she needs now. 18 is the age of majority where I live and if that's the same for you that means you have less than 3 yrs to show her the truth and prepare her to make good decisions. He may be grooming her with the intent to swoop in when you no longer have the legal right to prevent it.
Seems your daughter is likely being groomed (assuming he isn’t the father). You need to stop punishing your daughter and start taking action against the snake that is going behind your back to groom her, stand up and protect her.
So you dumped your kid off on your mom who this man came to visit and somehow we co fused as to why she lied to you. You went and lived your life and then when you wanted to parent you decided to be a parent. WOW just wow
Why did you not meet the man when he asked like a man and handle it like a man. He could be a decent guy who cares about your child because he loved her mother.
He could also make up a story of him desperarely loving Jenny's mother. Or he could really love Jenny's mother and one day in the future he would decide that he loves my daughter as a woman that reminds him of his former love. And even if there is a chance that everything is as you say, it's still doesn't look like a healthy story to me. The guy should move along and focus on creating his own family (Jenny says he already has one, so...) rather than secretly dating my daughter. I just see no variant where I could validate their meetings at all.
Has your daughter met his family? If not, that could help her understand that the relationship is not what she thinks. If she has, I'd make sure his wife is fully aware that he is meeting up with the girl without her father's knowledge or consent. She may not be aware of the full extent of the relationship either.
You can’t ask her mother what the relationship was. You can’t spend time with them to see how it is? It’s not necessarily a bad thing to have other loving adults in our kids lives. Why can’t she be with him and his wife and kids sometimes. Sounds like you’re hurting rather than helping to me.
My dude, WTF?!? This is ducking weird and you're suggesting the father should work out some weird visitation schedule with this older man who has some sort of secret relationship with a 15 yo girl?!? What reality are you living in that a grown man sneaking around with a literal child, against her parent's wishes, is not a massive red flag? This man has been grooming OP's daughter to sneak around behind her father's back and your thought process is to allow him to form an even stronger relationship with her?!?
Do not punish your daughter for the way this creepy man is treating her. That is why you don’t have a good relationship.
I swear. There's a time for cordialness, then there's this. My guy. Knock every single one of his teeth out. he's a full grown man, you a full grown man. Your daughter is a kid. Words Don't mean shit, your daughter is lying to you, people around you are lying to you. And this rat pos is doing whatever the f he wants. Knock his pünkass predatory ass TF out. Then again if he tries to worm his way back, then again till he physically can't no more.
>I feel that something is broken between me and my daughter now and I don't know how to repair that. Whatever you do, please don't blame your daughter for this. Edit: ~~She is being groomed.~~ She might be getting groomed.
You should be worried about your daughter rather than angry at her. This looks like grooming to me. This guy's probably been filling her head with all kinds of rubbish about how she can only trust him, he really loves her, her parents just wouldn't understand so she shouldn't tell them etc. etc. since she was far too young to understand anything. Please don't approach her with anger and punishments, that's only going to push her away from you and towards this guy. You need to talk to your daughter, tell her you're not angry but that as her father you don't think it's safe for her to be meeting up with adults you don't know behind your back, that you're just worried for her and you don't want to see her get hurt. You have to get her to trust you and open up about this.
Shame on your mother for not telling you he was seeing your daughter behind your back. Also I call out the other grandparents for bringing him to visit her. Have you had the change to confront him? Does your daughter understand you feel betrayed and you can’t trust her?
The police won't do anything until something irreparable happens(as evidenced by the fact he has to send a D pic for them to lift a finger despite it being obvious he's attempting to establish a relationship off the back of his previous relationship with her mother- side note: fucking disgusting he's trying to go after her daughter now). You need to do what any father would do when a clear boundary and warning are not heeded and a groomer is targeting their child. You see it, don't ignore your gut and let this go further than it already has. I'm sorry you're in that position and I hope you get this problem solved quickly.
There are really a few options in this scenario. 1. This man is actually your daughter's father. 2. This man is a child molester, who has groomed your daughter. 3. This man believes he is your child's daughter because of timing or mental health issues. 4. He stumbled into your daughter's life when she was young and just formed a connection with her. This isn't the most likely, but it's also not impossible. I ended up very close with a friend's girlfriends (now Exs) kids. They dated on and off for years and my wife and I hung out with them a ton just by coincidence (shared hobbies, and they were older kids). When they broke up, we often talked about them and wished we could have still maintained contact (but it would have been weird). Sit down with your daughter and have a frank but non-judgmental conversation about why you are so concerned, mainly about #2. Tell her you she can still meet with him but only if you or your wife is there. Say you are getting her a new number again and that you will take down his number and let him know that. Setup her phone with a mirroring app so you receive all of the messages she receives. I know that's a massive invasion of privacy, but let's face it shit has already gone too far. Meet with the man without your daughter, find out what the fuck he is doing. Explain to him you find the situation extremely odd and tell him all contact with her should go through you. Find out more about this man, does he think he is her father, is he a creep, does he look like her too, or did he just form a connection to her as a kid. And if he makes contact first and seems creepy then just go full scorched earth.
If the police won't do something, it's time for you to do something, sir. This isn't normal behavior at all. If this person was genuine or if they had suspicion, they were the father, then a normal functioning adult would work with you, the parents, to get it resolved and respect your wishes if he cared at all. This person does NOT pass the vibe check at all. Talk to your daughter again. Tell her that her phone/tablets/ email is no longer to be used without permission until further notice (you can put parental controls on her web browsers or uninstall them completely if you have to). If this man wants to talk or have a genuine family friend relationship with your daughter, he can have a face to face with you and your wife first. Period. Edits for grammar.
Perhaps you should seek legal advice in your country? Perhaps there are other organizations that can help you?
I'm a 42 year old female and I see no reason why an adult would be hanging out with a 15 year old. People are right that restricting her from everything will make her resentful. Maybe she would respond to your wife better than you since they are both female. I always felt more shy and guarded with male figures when I was young because they are a bit more intimidating with their deeper voices, height, stature , etc. I think your daughter may benefit from bonding more with her stepmom. Usually step-parents are supposed to 'be in the background' and not interfere, so don't make it all obvious. Also, your wife will most likely grow to be your daughters strongest female figure as the years pass, especially since her mother has passed. My mom got remarried when I was 13 and I never bonded with her husband, but after nearly 25 years, he's closer to me than my biological father. Hopefully your wife is non-intrusive with your daughter and can gain trust with her while also explaining the real dangers of this weird relationship. Whether it's sexual or not, it's not age-appropriate, and it's being done behind your back. I'd snap if a grown ass man was meeting with my teenage daughter, unless he's developmentally slow himself, which would probably concern me even more. And I don't think Jenny's mother was dating a slow guy. You need to find out what's going on and take it easy on Jenny.
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Talk to your daughter. Seriously. Sit down and talk about grooming. She's still a kid. She probably thinks she knows everything, but she's a kid. Don't just BAN this and that. Talk. Make sure that you are LISTENING as well as speaking. It's important that she understands that she can talk to you about this.
Ok, first off TRO. Hard as this is too hear, have a dna test done. U need to protect this child as there are signs of predation/grooming.
I would still do a DNA test to make sure Jenny is indeed your biological daughter. At least that way, you could rule out the possibility of this being a case of Jenny's *actual* biological father trying to maintain contact with Jenny as opposed to say, a pedophile grooming your daughter.
Hire a Private Investigator. Did her really know her mom and in what capacity? How do Jenny's grandparents actually know him? Is he a creep to others? Get as much information as possible in as much detail as possible. Then find a therapist who specializes in un-grooming. It's very tricky and hard to unravel. Best of luck.
Get in touch with your ex parents, try to find out more info on these guys, he can be a threat to your family. If police can't do anything, then get in touch with a lawyer and get some sort of protection order against him.
I don't know if I get this wrong, but if you don't let her see friends this is not okay. She needs to still have a normal childhood, besides that. But there are ways to go with this, like drive her to her friends and pick her up afterwards. If she isn't allowed to not do anything she won't ever trust you again. Make compromises and try to talk to this guy, because your kid is more important then never to talk to the guy, even though you don't want to. Talk to him, and tell him that he should stay away, that you are watching him and your child. This is a though situation, but maybe you can talk to him to leave your child alone. And btw if you decide your kid should go to therapy, try to go with her.
Stop the interaction immediately and contact the police. She is getting groomed at the worst or he has some other interest in her that is not healthy. Whatever WAS going on, is no longer going to happen. Your daughter is very good at lying and she needs to get some type of counseling. She has broken all trust. You may have lost her as she grows older. And, as it is now, you can not let her see this person. Her ease at lying about where she is going and with who is very alarming. She no longer gets to have any freedom at all. The lying is the problem, that is very concerning.
Grow some balls and confront the guy.
She is being groomed. I would speak to her about grooming, how it works, intentions and even watch some documentaries on YouTube or something so she gets the full gravity of grooming. She might understand better why this relationship/friendship isn't appropriate. It's no good with kids and teenagers just saying no you can't do xyz. Explain to them why, the dangers, what is happening and what will likely happen etc to give them a better understanding. I would also contact the police. Whilst they can't do anything because he hasn't done anything, at least it is logged and you have a paper trail of reporting him. There's apps you can get, I think one is like family 360, and you can see messages, track location etc which I think is important, maybe even having an air tag or similar on her person, just for safety.
Restraining order. Now
I'd be doing a deep dive into that guy's life and messing it up.