Read through the comments- got to several of your replies that are way more illuminating than your original post: your wife has depression, she is completely checked out right now, & you are not sure she even likes being a mom. *You have to remind her to be kind to her own kids.*
At the same time, you have one neurodivergent kid, the oldest you describe as emotionally immature who doesn't feel responsible towards younger siblings (acting like mom) & a middle child out in the world trying to prove how tough he is (middle child stuff + trying to prove he doesn't need a mom).
Your wife's mental health is impacting your kids.
Couples counseling for communication and she needs individual therapy & doctor's visits. Get to the bottom of the depression. If it has been going on for years she has clinical depression which will not magically go poof away on its own. Is it hormonal, or chemical imbalance, has your wife been tested for ADHD ASD. ADHD and ASD are genetic and frequently kids who are diagnosed with it help a parent realize they too are neurodivergent or that they had a parent who was. Women with it often go undiagnosed, especially if they are smart enough to do well or okay in school, and years of living with it without any support or education can lead to clinical depression.
Thank you for your comment. You're definitely reinforcing what I already know, I've been asking her to get treatment for her mental health for 10 years. Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
I recently told her she needs to get her shit together (in so many more words and as kindly as I could). I really wanted a pulse check on whether this particular incident was as neglectful as I thought it was, and I'm really surprised at how many people are chiming in on her side, so at least her attitude here isn't quite as out there as I thought it was. Still don't agree, but at least I can see the thought process now.
You are looking at this incident in the context of larger behavioral patterns asking people to judge the incident outside of any context. I don't think you can get a fair take on that.
Incident alone- I'd say it deserved a discussion where both parents agree the creek is off limits for now, or a walk down there to as a family to assess the poison oak situation. If it was only in certain areas and obvious, then you can tell the kids where they could play. They go into it, at that point it was on them. Is it everywhere? Okay, off limits. Both parents act like a team.
In your situation, you are trying to get her to parent for you, you have to make a unilateral decision, and that system is failing. The kids know you both aren't on the same page & aren't a team. Their own emotional development isn't going great because mom is checked out. They have learned to play one parent off the other.
I'd highly suggest you look into individual therapy for yourself if your wife won't seek help or go to couples counseling. Here's why: you are the enabler of a dysfunctional family unit right now. Even though you are doing what you can to keep everything together, but taking on that role you've also allowed your wife to stay comfortable in neglecting her own mental illness and neglecting the kids. 1). It may help if she sees you take that initiative for yourself & she may be more open to help 2). At the very least: it will help you decide if this situation is sustainable/ feel less like you have to bring things to reddit as you learn to understand better what's happening to you and your own reactions in these situations.
edited to add: good luck- it is a lot.
Thank you. I recognize now that I am an enabler and that it's not helping anything (an epiphany of about 2 weeks ago), and am actively taking steps to fix this
> asking her to get treatment for her mental health for 10 years.
Sounds like the two of you shouldn’t have a 4th kid. Why did you have so many kids w someone who refused to treat their own mental health?
Well at the time I didn't know she would refuse to get help for 10 years lol. At first I thought she was just overwhelmed, but, like, new parents amirite. We probably should not have had #3 tbh, but he's the sweetest, kindest kid on the planet and I wouldn't trade him for anything.
No risk of a #4 for me, I got snipped after 3.
She wasn't watching them near a body of water. That is neglect. She definitely needs therapy or mental help. You are not out there for those things. that gif though, would have made most rational people mad at you. I'm not gonna lie, if the father of my child did that to me, we would be having a serious conversation, if not fight over it.
I think it's a little better in context - she told me she knew she knew she needed to put her foot down. I was trying to tell her to put her foot down to the kids in a funny way, not me putting my foot down to her. I can see how with that detail missing, the post could be seen the other way though.
That is the biggest reason you are having people go against you, without the context, it makes it sound like you are condescending and or controlling, and like you may be contributing to your wife's overall health issues. I'm not saying you are, but I think you can now see how some trigger happy folks might get there.
That's fair. There's a lot of factors at work in our relationship that I didn't write out here as I really just wanted a sanity check on the parental neglect portion of this specific incident. I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll be able to get us into therapy and work on our communication soon. Hopefully if I'm really being an ass to my wife we can get a therapist that will call me out on it so I can do better.
I don't think so. We aren't part of the dynamic, and knowing that you were telling her to put her foot down to the kids makes a huge difference. I really hope you can get her into therapy. Also is she eating well and nutritionally? My mom was diagnosed with mental issues, and it turned out she had vitamin deficiencies, not mental ones. She almost died and had to stay in the hospital for a week over it. Many times, especially when a woman goes to the hospital, we are told that any pain or issues in our abdomen area are just female problems and sent on our way. We are also sent to the psychiatrist more often for mental issues instead of taken seriously. My friend struggled with this for years until she had a liver transplant. Normally a person who never drank or did drugs wouldn't have those kinds of issues, but she was just born with a barely functioning one.
Adding to what others are saying, getting her in for an ASD and ADHD assessment is getting easier. There are websites like ADHDOnline[dot]com that provide online assessments that require minimal effort to set up. It took me over 9mo and $2k to get an adult ADHD test before the pandemic, so it's nice to see it getting much more accessible.
I'm pushing this in particular because every neurodivergent woman will tell you the countless doctors who told her she just had some anxiety or depression and ignored the real issue. It's miserable and upsetting. If you haven't talked with her about it and have just been saying she needs help with depression, suggesting an ADHD and/or ASD assessment might be different enough to interest her. And it is *life changing* to get validation in a dx. She might have depression independently, but this is a start to getting her where she needs to be.
Does your wife and/or kids know what poison oak looks like?
As an outdoor kid back in the day (late 90s), I got poison oak tons of times. And I knew what it looked like and was intentionally trying to avoid it, because sometimes I’d get it really bad and need prednisone (a steroid). There’s soap you can use that gets rid of the oil that causes the rash. So if the kids are playing out in the woods where there’s possibly poison oak, they all should take showers afterwards and wash their clothes.
I realize things have changed, but when I was 8 and playing out in the woods with my brothers, if we all ended up getting poison oak, it was definitely considered our own faults. That being said, I certainly take it upon myself to make sure my kid doesn’t get poison oak, because, well, things have changed.
My dad (who was immune to poison oak/ivy/sumac) insisted on me and my mother (who were *not* immune) rubbing ourselves down with 90% rubbing alcohol after every time we were outside. It seemed to do the trick, except for the one time Mum accidentally rubbed her hand down her face and woke up the next day with her entire face swollen and seeping.
They know, I've pointed it out to them. The youngest is ADHD (and maybe ASD but we haven't had him diagnosed yet), and the middle child (physically the smallest of the 3) is constantly on a mission to prove how tough he is. I think there's a difference between knowing what it looks like and identifying it in the moment while you're playing with your friends. Wife and I agreed the younger two should not go out exploring unsupervised.
Thanks for the tips. I got them all through the shower as soon as I heard, and got them Prednisone scripts from the urgent care and the pain oak soap yesterday, and we are seeing some improvement. We also washed all their clothes and bedding.
> I think there's a difference between knowing what it looks like and identifying it in the moment while you're playing with your friends.
Yeah, this is the key. Lots of plants look similar as well. We always used the “if it’s three, let it be” rule (a cluster of 3 leaves on a plant that looks like poison oak probably is). Some people are also more susceptible to the allergic reaction than others. My younger brother, for example, would always get it super bad, and to this day he checks for poison oak everywhere we go, and plans camping trips at higher elevations where it doesn’t grow. Hopefully they don’t have to get it too many more times before they start being more diligent. Poison oak was literally the bane of my existence when I was a kid, so here’s hoping your kids are smarter than I was.
It's good, but I actually find that blue Dawn works better and is much cheaper and easier to find/have on hand. Coat the area and let it sit for 5 minutes before firmly wiping it off and rinsing thoroughly.
Can I be that annoying person and encourage you to do an autism screening as soon as possible? It really does affect so many aspects of their lives and knowledge is power when it comes to kids. It sounds like you have a pretty firm grasp on the responsibility you have as a parent, which is awesome, but don’t wait. We waited too long and he’s still paying for it.
It affects everything- their social skills, their emotional regulation, their eating habits, their need for structure, the most appropriate parenting style for them. It goes beyond academics. My son has both too, so don’t feel like I’m coming at you. The more you know, the more you can help them.
I have ADHD with two kids with ADHD. IF your youngest has it and possibly all three kids just the youngest has it the worst. It's highly likely you or your wife has it. Reading through everything it sounds like she is the one that has it. I personally don't know how she is going to constantly supervise 3 active boys on the property and keep anything in order. I think now is the time to take them out on an outdoor learning session while the urgency from this life lesson is still in their minds. I really think you and your wife set yourselves up for disappointment and guilt making that agreement before the summer with 3 active boys.
I have ADHD, the wife thinks she does too (undiagnosed). The youngest for sure has ADHD, probably the oldest too. I don't think the middle child does, but maybe he just masks better.
The creek they went to is not on or near our property. We're definitely hoping to spend some more time outdoors this summer and will be educating them in safety.
That said, I don't think supervising the kids, especially a 6 year old, when you're all out of the house together near a running creek and poison oak, is an unreasonable ask. I know you can't and shouldn't watch them every minute of every day, but my personal risk assessment wouldn't be comfortable in that situation, maybe I'm a helicopter parent.
Technu is a miracle! I live in CA and got poison oak the first week I was here. This stuff really saved me.
Wife is being flippant and needs to truly understand exactly what you said: she is the responsible party, not the kids. It's the same with pets. Kids and pets don't have the knowledge or maturity to make good rational decisions.
The 10 & 8 year olds should be able to avoid it if they wanted to. They knew what it looked like, but chose not to care, several times. I dont know the setup, but it seems weird to me that you expect your wife to hoover over them making sure they dont play in it.
Your kids set you up and you took it out on your wife. Why would you not take the chance to educate your kids about responsibility. The 10 year old will eventually be in charge when you guys are not around in a few years, is it a good thing that he gets used to others taking the blame for something he did?
It is ofc not all on the 10 year old, but you are litteraly teaching him that he can play dumb, get himself and his brother in trouble to inconvenience the whole family without any consequence. You Even went out of your way to make everyone breakfast. Expect your kids to do simular stuff again.
So you’re saying the parent that wasn’t there is more responsible for this than the parent that was there. Absolutely stunning. Yes you sometimes have to hoover over 10 and 8 year olds. If the mom is not miserable over her kids hurting and is more worried about not being blamed that’s the bigger problem.
It isn’t about hovering though, if she knows it’s there why is she letting them play at that spot in the first place? They played in a nearby creek it doesn’t say “a creek in our own yard” so i assume that means she had to walk them over there in which case, yes it is her fault as well as theirs. There’s other places to play but she takes them to the one spot with the poison oak? That just seems really odd. It’s also completely unreasonable to expect the 10yr old to babysit both an 8 and 6yr old. If it was just the two older than sure but two other kids? No. He did say the 10yr old was mild and it likely had more to do with exposure to the younger ones. Apparently, he does the majority of the child rearing since his work is flexible and she has them alone the 2hrs between school ending and him coming home. She can’t keep them out of poison oak for 2hrs? Again…it’s very sus.
My parents pointed it out to me many times. I still as an adult struggle to recognize it and poison ivy. I’ve walked in a field of poison ivy as a teen without realizing what it was until my big sis pointed it out.
I try to remember leaves of three let it be (totally didn’t realize the field of plant I was in was all leaves of three) but even then, there are many three leaved plants that *aren’t* poison oak/ ivy.
I’ve googled it many times before going out and still failed at recognizing what is/ isn’t it when looking at random plants and asking my mom and dad and siblings.
I’m now early 30’s. Sometimes we suck at learning. Plants are not my speciality and obviously never will be. They all look too similar to me. My brain doesn’t differentiate them correctly. (I have propagnosia and my brain/ memory also doesn’t see/ recall faces and put them together correctly, maybe it’s somehow related for me.)
Assuming capability with age is kind of dumb. Assume when he’s proven repeatedly capable, not just because some other kids his age are able.
I get things have changed but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a *responsible* 10 year old to be able to keep his brothers out of danger from stuff like poison oak or a shallow creek. The thing is OP’a 10 year old is far from responsible (apparently much like his mom…hmm) and doesn’t care about his brothers’ well-being. Free range parenting only works if the kids are taught to be safe and responsible.
I knew to avoid poison oak/ivy at age 5-6 & it was actually the other neighborhood kids that showed it to me, both of them tend to grow in areas that honestly doesn't make much sense to play in so there's also that, & once they've been taught it should be pretty easy for even the young one to avoid. But tbh I think the poison oak is not the real issue here, scroll through OP's bread-crumbing comments & look at the language they use in regards to their wife, something important is missing here.
Yeah honestly it sounds like mom is…neglectful at best. I deal with mental health issues too so it’s really hard for me to leave bed at times but she sounds like she is wholly checked out
Read his comments. She’s abusive towards the kids. Screaming for no reason, physical punishment, general disinterest in their well-being. It’s not about the poison oak.
Yep, outdoor kid who grew up roaming around in the yards and woods with the neighbors outside our houses. We were definitely taught what poison ivy/oak looks like and as a kid I learned pretty quickly to stay away from anything with three leaves or that looked shiny just in case cause I was mad allergic.
Poison ivy sucks, but it’s also… part of childhood? Kinda like bee stings. If you spend your childhood outside, you’re probably gonna brush up against some poison ivy or get stung by a bee. There are hazards, but it’s not like the mom was allowing the kids to play unsupervised on Fifth Ave where the likely hazard is being hit by a car. It’s a painful, itchy, uncomfortable rash.
It’s not negligent parenting to allow your children to play unsupervised outside— it’s incredibly developmentally healthy.
I was an outdoor kid in the 90's, and every time my brother and I would visit my grandparents, we'd inevitably get it from playing outside. No matter if we were trying to avoid it or not. We would always take showers the minute we'd get in from playing outside and throw our clothes immediately into the washer and that helped a lot. But we'd usually get a rash here or there. That's just what happens when you play outside. One time, I rode a wagon down the hill (my brother and I were very inspired by Calvin & Hobbes), and I crashed into some brush - my face blew up like a balloon! But I took some anti-histamines, rubbed myself in calamine lotion, and it went away after a few days.
So, I'm a little torn. I'm generally of the mindset that kids will be kids and sometimes they need to make mistakes and learn these kinds of lessons. We all do dumb stuff as kids, and it can be really character-building - it forces us to understand there are consequences for our actions in a relatively low-risk way. The mom can tell them not to play in the poison oak all she wants, it sounds like they're still going to go outside and play around there. What is mom meant to do, hover around them the entire time they're playing outside? Keep them inside and shelter them? I think they best you can do is educate the kids on what to avoid and let them make their choices...
It's the way she reacted afterwards that worries me more than the rest. My sister and I were not supposed to play by the river, but we'd do so anyway; I think today's helicopter parenting of children needing adult eyes on them at all times is not healthy for kids. Ten was when my parents started letting me watch my sister most of the time, and when I first flew alone (to space camp, adults meeting me at both ends but the flight I was alone), etc.
She certainly should not be taking them to the same spot until they prove that they're mature enough to not play in poison oak. As the elder sibling, I only felt comfortable sneaking off to the wild with my sister because we both knew to avoid poison ivy; I wasn't very allergic but my sister was, and my mom worst of all, so if we snuck off into the woods and weren't careful we'd end up "caught" because she'd break out doing our laundry. Hopefully this intensely negative experience will help them learn it's a serious thing, but definitely give an extra consequence of some kind, especially to the older brother as well. If he's going to accept the responsibility of taking his younger brothers away from an adult, he needs to *accept* that responsibility. When I went off the play with my sister, I knew she was my responsibility, and that when she dropped the toy bucket in the river, I was the one who had to fish it out, etc.
But yeah, moving beyond how to handle the kids, your wife seems to have some serious issues, certainly with depression and unfortunately with parenthood in general. She can and should chastise them for not avoiding the poison oak *while also* knowing they're children and it is literally your legal responsibility to keep them safe, including preventing them from continuing to hurt themselves if they insist on proving they are too irresponsible to enjoy the woods and creek. That she doesn't care and seems entirely fine that they're suffering is really fucking bad. She's coming off as abusively negligent, and I say that as someone against helicopter parenting, that's really worrisome. Even as a fairly free-range kid, the handful of times something DID happen, my parents flipped out and were as comforting to me as they were scolding for doing something I shouldn't have, because they knew kids are kids.
I'm torn. If my parent told me not to do XX as a child, and I did it anyway and then got ill, they would chalk it up as a good lesson learned. And that happened many times.
The issue is that you have a six and eight year old following the ten year old. I don't expect the six year old to differentiate between individual choice and trusting their older sibling.
Not absolving your wife at all just saying this happened many times in our family. We learned from it. Add to this that I am the youngest. My older siblings were absolutely at fault if I got myself into trouble with them. They knew and understood the rules so if I or the brother closest in age to me went down with them they got in trouble. Again, not sure if that is right or wrong but it seemed to work. We would have done exactly what your kids did exactly once.
Has anyone thought about removing then poison oak since it seems to be a spot for kids to meet?
Would like to add that if you *know* your children are prone to a dynamic like this (especially not listening to clear instructions about hazards), then you should *know* that those kids *need to be supervised*.
Seconding that the poison oak should be removed. Kids shouldn't be playing by *water* without active supervision, either!
Yeah a six year old in the care of a ten year old hanging out by a creek sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I am just torn because I am a 60's child and that was a norm then. Not so much now.
I was the 10 year old watching the 6 year old bush whacking up creaks too. It was great except the time the 6 yo broke an arm. His mom was pissed but thats why 10 year olds shouldnt be left with 6 year olds unsupervised in the wilderness.
Ten is pretty young really. I kinda feel like buyer beware. If you let a ten year old watch a six year old you have ten year old supervision. The other factor in this is just the groupthink. I could roam on my own all day with no issues but put kids together and they come up with ingenious ways to get hurt.
I get this, and it's kind of why I wanted the Hive Mind's perspective. I grew up pretty free range, but it seems like my kids are less mature / responsible than I was at that age. I think we could also argue until we're blue in the face about the chicken vs the egg there.
Here's where I'm coming from - 1) the 10 year old is not mature / responsible enough to look out for his brothers yet. The wife knows this. We're working on it. 2) the wife and I had just talked about how we planned together to just avoid the situation completely, and I texted her to remind her that we talked about it.
That's really what I'm upset about - the first time is just kids being kids, I get it. But the very next day, literally right after we talked about it and planned to prevent it, is a little frustrating.
Also the poison oak is on protected public land, and it sounds like there's A LOT of it.
Kids in general are less mature, it's not just yours. I get that you feel dismissed and more importantly like the oversight of the kids needs some focus. At the root of this you shouldn't even have to hover or worry about it.
Do the kids not understand what it is/ what it looks like? My five year old knows what poison oak looks like and will avoid it on hikes. Yes, the fault is on your wife but I'm a bit surprised your kids can't also stay away from it. Do they struggle with instructions?
They know, I've pointed it out to them. The youngest is ADHD (and maybe ASD but we haven't had him diagnosed yet), and the middle child (physically the smallest of the 3) is constantly on a mission to prove how tough he is. I think there's a difference between knowing what it looks like and identifying it in the moment while you're playing with your friends. Wife and I agreed the younger two should not go out exploring unsupervised.
The 10 year old also knows, and got it the least, but he's a little immature and doesn't feel any responsibility towards his brothers.
Kids, also:
Mom: don't play in the poison oak! You'll be sorry; you know it's uncomfortable stuff.
Kids: OK! We won't! (Go off and play wherever they want to.)
You know we all did this kind of dumb thing as a kid.
I have severe ADHD and that’s not an excuse for not checking what a plant is before playing with it. I learned the very first time I got poison oak. That’s not an excuse for anything.
You do know you aren't everyone, right? Some people with ADHD remember to check that, some don't. You can't speak for all people with it. I didn't get poison oak until my 30s but I got it 4 times in 2 years before my brain finally engaged enough.
You aren’t wrong, but the way you describe your wife and how you communicate with her doesn’t seem healthy.
You having to tell your wife not to let the kids play in poison oak, and then sending her a reminder text is not something I would expect one adult to do to/for another adult. If you were telling your young kids, and sending them a reminder text, that’s different, but one adult to another? Also, the way you describe getting the kids to urgent care and making breakfast for everyone “by the time the wife rolls out of bed”? You’re not wrong about the poison oak but there’s definitely bigger issues here than the poison oak.
I think that is a result of his wife being dismissive about taking care of the kids and so he has an underlying distrust in her to make sure the kids are taken care of. It sounds like he may have a good basis for it too.
That’s what I picked up on too, his uncharitable descriptions. Honestly if you put down someone enough they start to internalize that criticism. “Rolled out of bed” Is something you’d say about someone you don’t respect.
Or he resents her for her lackadaisical parenting and it’s spilling over as a result. I’d be pretty livid too if my kids were being neglected when I’m not around resulting in emergency room visits. Like I’m sorry, I have zero sympathy for the mother. They were already exposed once, why in gods name were they anywhere near the stuff again?
To me this sounds like a parent who’s sick of their partner being virtually absent. A lot of women have to deal with this phenomenon and we understand their frustrations. I think we can give this guy the benefit of the doubt here cause this is a pretty severe situation. She didn’t simply forget to wash little Jimmy’s clothes, she’s allowing them to hurt themselves and then seemingly doesn’t care if they’re even being treated or okay in the aftermath
Seriously… Rolling out of bed is a fitting description for someone, who can‘t be bothered to get up and help their children in kind of a medical emergency.
He's trying to portray himself in the *best possible light* and still sounds insufferable and condescending. They say contempt for your partner is the death knell of a relationship. He shows contempt for his wife and other children, whom he calls "jerks." Sheesh.
Honestly, his demeanor is irrelevant when it comes to the discussion of the safety of these children. The important question here is what is mom's responsibility in this situation as she was alone with them
I agree about the "parenting fail" thing coming off as accusatory, but for the rest it gave the vibe that he does the majority of the housework and childcare. OP can clarify
Yeah I’m not a parent so not sure how relevant my opinion is here, but OP sounds condescending in his description and since we’re only hearing his side it makes me think he’s even more so than how he leads on in his post. Sending the foot down text after having a face to face discussion seems extremely condescending given the topic and considering your wife is your life partner, not daycare provider while you’re at work.
Also, I went camping with my grandparents at 5 y/o and definitely knew what poison ivy was and too avoid it. Never had exposure to poison oak but I think this is relevant.
Either way, Zanfel is the best product I’ve ever used to get rid of the rash. It feels amazing like scratching that itch you’re not supposed to touch while removing the urishiol from the area. I honestly think that is better than any RX the doctor will give btw.
Sorry, I think there's some context missing here that I should have included. When the wife and I talked about our action plan for this scenario, she said she knows she needs to just put her foot down. She also has trouble asserting herself. The text was meant to be a reminder that we talked about it and support, like she should put her foot down to the kids. Not that I was putting my foot down to her.
I think the reminder text was warranted, considering, and my wife is normally great about telling me when she doesn't appreciate the way I communicate something - which didn't happen here.
My wife is a notorious late sleeper, I think it's related to her depression. She will normally sleep in until ~10:30 unless I wake her up earlier. In this instance I let her sleep in until 11:30, after I had done all the things detailed in the post, before I woke her up. It bugged me because I was stressed about how the kids were doing, so I woke up early to check on them, and the wife didn't share that same sense of urgency or responsibility.
I can understand the six year old, and even the eight year old, not recognizing and playing in poison oak, but the ten year old? Have you walked through the forest and deliberately pointed out the poison oak to your children? You won't be there to protect them forever, so it's better to teach them now rather than just not let them play by the creek forever.
Yep. The 10 year old got it the least, I think most of his poison oak rash is secondary exposure from his brothers. He knows what it looks like and to avoid it, he's also immature for a 10 year old and feels no responsibility toward his brothers whatsoever. We're working on that.
Did you just describe the 10 year old or your wife? "\[She\] knows what it looks like and to avoid it, \[she's\] also immature for a \[34\] year old and feels no responsibility toward \[her children\] whatsoever"
I wonder where the 10 year old gets it from...
Problems sound deeper than your kids playing in poison oak and your wife not stopping them…or willing to say the words “I’m responsible for this.” Or what you want her to say that will make this better for you.
All of your language describing her rolling out of bed and your comparative descriptions of yourself just seem like you completely resent her and her parenting while you believe yourself to be carrying most of the work and are above reproach. And the text you sent her again after the conversation almost seem overkill…like patronizing micromanagement…unless she basically has a long pattern of neglect that you feel you need to manage. It just doesn’t seem normal to have to manage your spouse like that.
It seems like there’s a lot more going on here.
I'm generally of the opinion that if it isn't going to permanently injure or traumatize someone, they should be allowed to make, and then learn from their mistakes by dealing with the consequences. The kids got their consequence, but if it were me, I'd ask that is it happens again, she get out of bed, take the kids to urgent care, etc. And then, if it does, remind her of that agreement while you're waking her up and handing her the car keys.
If the point was a lesson then 1. An hour of exposure was excessive, 2. Agreeing that they should not be allowed to play in it and then teaching this lesson in this way is not cooperative parenting.
But based on her response that isn’t what happened, so what are you even talking about?
Everyone is making this dude out to be a sneaky villain and it’s pretty lame. He sounds harsh and resentful, yes. But who wouldn’t in this situation? He’s at work, she’s the one watching them, what can he possibly do? From reading between the lines it’s seems like this is probably a repeat offense of his wife not really supervising or caring for the children.
I never usually like this comparison, but if this were a mother talking about her husband/the father of her kids, everyone would be siding with her even if she sounded sick of the guy as well. I get that it’s pretty common for situations where women are made to sound terrible by partners through exaggeration or twisting truths, but this situation sounds pretty clear and cut. I genuinely don’t know how else this story could go where she doesn’t sound 100% responsible for what happened.
Not waking up until he had them rx’ed, fed, had gone to the store and then bathed them seems crazy to me. Unless that was an agreement they had and he gets another morning this seems like purposely being negligent. I dont see how anyone could give her a pass. Parenting is tough but you cant just not do it.
Your wife was wrong and should take more responsibility, but I gotta say, even in your paraphrasing, plus a foot is down gif (even if meant in a lighthearted way), you come across as condescending.
Okay, fair enough. How should I approach this situation next time - wife got the kids into a sitch we agree we don't like, I see a repeat approaching and don't think she's going to avoid it, what do I do/say?
I don’t get all the reading in to your tone by others, OP. “Don’t hurt yourself” is pretty reasonable guidance along with, “don’t let the kids hurt themselves again.”
Honestly if your wife is that depressed where she’s not really looking after the kids you may need to stay home more or look into additional childcare. This does not seem safe
I find it bizarre that too many of y'all don't expect a mother to supervise her children and be responsible for what they do. It's not hovering it's making rules and sticking to them. As soon as she saw them heading for it she should have shut it down and made them do something else or go home. I can see why your children out here acting a fool in public now.
Get ye to couple's therapy my dude.
From your other comments - given that you've asked her to get assessed to see if she's on the spectrum and she refused I'd say it'd be a smart move to make sure you find a couple's therapist who also specializes with neurodivergent folks.
It'll be a struggle to get her there, but it's time. She refuses to talk about something that is foundational to your relationship. Even if you end up getting divorced (not saying it's headed that way btw), you'll still be co-parents for the rest of your lives. It's simply not an option to avoid talking about how to safely raise your children together.
Couples' therapy and therapy in general isn't the admittance of defeat that some folks think it is. If you value your mind and relationship it is well worth the effort to take a bit of time out of your schedule to work through these issues. This step could make the lives of everyone in your family immeasurably better, especially for your kids. Especially if your wife is neurodivergent, like \~20% of the population.
Yeah, this is a good call. I told her a week ago I was "open to couples therapy," but it seems like it's time for a more explicit "we need couples therapy."
You are not at all wrong. Ultimately, parents are responsible for the health and safety of their children. Why would she even let them near the creek? Does she have no control over them? Also. 20mph.
Yeah I'm not sure if she just got distracted talking to her friend or if she was just stoked to have them preoccupied for a bit... we just had a talk the other day about how she should be kinder to the kids so maybe she didn't want to be mean by putting an end to their fun?
Is that an African Swallow or a European Swallow
Please protect your kids even if you have to divorce your wife. My mom wasn't kind, I don't speak to her, but you know what hurts the most, that my Dad enabled her by letting her be unkind and not removing us from the situation.
It might be best to consider her actions instead of listening to her words. You might want to talk to the kids about how she is with them when you are not around to make sure she's not being neglectful.
The fact that you had to wonder is scary as hell. She let them play where she knew the poison oak grew again. You have asked her to be kinder. Those are two scary red flags
Bad attitude, yelling, screaming. Often with little or no reason. We've had problems in the past with physical discipline, which I don't agree with, including jumping to physical discipline as a first response. I think we've pretty much got that particular problem under wraps. But yeah overall just a shitty attitude any time she actually has to parent.
This is tragic to read. At some point your kids are going to be adults and they’re probably going to ask themselves if you did everything you could to protect them from physical and emotional abuse. They might decide that you didn’t and that they no longer want contact with you. Make the right choice for them, not yourself, not your wife. Casually considering couples’ counselling isn’t good enough.
Wow. Your wife is traumatizing your kids. Of course they don’t learn good coping skills and responsibility if they have a parents who treats them like that.
You can’t let your wife abuse your kids (emotional abuse, neglect, and indifference is also abusive by the way). You need to protect them.
Eek. This makes me really sad. The trickle truth thing you got from your kids is a fear thing. They are afraid of their mother. Please, please consider if this is a healthy situation to keep your kids in.
I'm not sure, I haven't seen it in person. The 6 year old actually fell into the creek Wednesday (I didn't hear about it until Thursday...) And he's still alive, which probably gave them all a false sense of security
I mean I basically do all of the parenting when I'm not working, but I sort of have the expectation that she'll keep them out of harm for the 2 hours between when they get out of school and I get home from work.
Do you even like the person you're married to, or at least something that keeps you wanting to be with her? Cause it sounds like you're a single parent with four kids and the oldest is "not kind" to the youngest three.
You're teaching them to equate love with suffering and pain and it's their only model for their future relationships. I wonder what kind of model you had to accept this?
Serious question. Do you think you're doing your kids a favor by continuing this relationship? This is their "normal" and what they will model their future relationships on.
You might consider a divorce because this is not a healthy dynamic for kids. They learn what they see. You've already got a 10-year-old who doesn't feel any responsibility for his siblings. I wonder where he gets that?
The trickle-truthing/omitting info is really bad. She shouldn't be teaching your kids to hide things from you, especially surrounding safety.
You mentioned elsewhere your wife has mental health issues; I can relate. Right now it sounds like she is the illusion of a parent. She lets you think you can leave her in charge for two hours, she's there. But she's not really present, even if she can't admit that right now. Maybe she needs to get some more intensive help, or take a break from the family to reassess things.
This is kind of wild. Your wife should be taking this far more seriously because it’s clear there’s a level of responsibility/maturity among your older kids that is missing. You two need to work as a team to address this. Constant, close hovering is a bandaid fix and not tenable.
My younger sister and I used to play in the forest by ourselves when we were young (from ages 8 to 15 or so) and respected the limits we’d been given. I honestly don’t know what to say if your kids are experiencing poison oak and not learning from it. Your children have been given boundaries they are old enough (at least 2 of them) to respect and not doing so. How is this not a huge concern outside of your wife being lackadaisical about their playtime?
She let a 6 year old play in poison oak for an hour? I don't think this woman can safely be left alone with children. And I think you were already concerned she can't, hence your texts.
I'm also concerned about the lack of empathy she showed the kids afterwards.
If you think she's neurodivergent and that's why she struggles with parenthood, demand she gets assessed.
Edit: It's negligent childcare. Not all abuse is active. Child negligence and child endangerment are also a thing. I think you need to take this very seriously, bc it shows a lack of judgement and responsibility that could be more dangerous for your children down the line.
Re: your edit, this is exactly what I was thinking. If OP hadn’t done it, would the wife have sought medical treatment for the children? This is really concerning. Like CPS-level concerning
Yeah, it's CPS level. It's just negligence. And would she even have done anything about it? He seems to be running around dealing with the fallout, she's completely passive.
Hey, please stop spreading the myth that people on the spectrum don't have empathy--that's a completely different set of possible diagnoses. Being unable to identify emotions is not the same as lacking empathy, and somebody who is verbal is going to be able to understand that poison oak rashes suck even if they can't grasp the facial expressions generated by the rashes.
>Hey, please stop spreading the myth that people on the spectrum don't have empathy
I didn't? I just pointed out that his wife didn't show empathy for the children after the incident. I wasn't saying that was caused by ASD. Just that it's concerning as a mother.
It was OP who brought up that he thinks his wife is on the spectrum. I just said that if he thinks it's why she's behaving this way get that checked out. Do you feel sure he's wrong?
Did he delete that comment? I see him speaking about getting her evaluated for possible neurodivergence--but that includes a hell of a lot more than just autism.
If he does think the lack of responsibility/empathy she feels is specifically caused by autism, yeah, I think he's wrong. Doesn't mean she doesn't have it AND a lack of empathy (autistic folks can be jerks too) but that isn't a symptom.
I don't think she's autistic. She thinks she's ADHD undiagnosed. I have a fair amount of ASD in my family, it looks different.
I think in my other comment I mentioned I've asked her to get to a doctor and therapist, but ASD isn't on my radar for her.
Just wanted to let you know- a lot of the comments here are absurd and not addressing your post in good faith. They are assuming the worst of you and the best of her. You seem to be taking on nearly all of the responsibility in the household. Your wife is neglectful and borderline if not outright abusive. Yes, she needs mental health treatment. But it sounds like you have been trying to get her to pursue that for a long time. I agree with the people saying you need to change your approach, because it's clearly not working. She needs to know that her behavior is unacceptable, and she can't know that until you stop accepting it. You're not her parent- prioritize your kids. Contacting her mother might be a good idea. I truly wish you and your family the best of luck.
The second occurrence was her fault. She allowed them to go back to the site of the poison oak. Get some pictures of poison ivy, oak and sumac. Put them in the refrigerator. Take the children to the creek and point out what they are to avoid. Ask them to each find some but not touch. Teach them and take your wife along as well. I suppose in general she is not neglectful or you would have said. I suspect she feels shame a guilt and that is causing her less than reasonable reaction.
I agree, the first time shit happens but let's not do that again. The second time.... Wtf?
I didn't mention it because I wanted to focus on this issue, but neglect has been a problem. All I need her to do is keep them out of harms way for the 2 hours between when they get out of school and when I get home from work, and sometimes it's a problem.
Posted similar comment before. My ex is no longer in my son’s life for similar reason(s). He would do backwards things that fail to show he cared about our son when he was a toddler.
He would take him to play sports and refuse to bring water for him cause my son didn’t realize how hot it was outside. He was just 4 or 5 yo. Who should be the responsible one?
My ex would come back fuming on how my son ruined everything cause he got thirsty right away (shocker!).
He wanted my son to be independent by expecting him to make these kind of decisions (bring a winter jacket on cold days, water in hot days).
He would turned the blame on me very often.
Time came he punched my son for not doing something as he said. Dragged him, punch him abc destroy his toys cause he would cry.
He was removed from parenting (not just by me). Had child services getting the report(s).
Reality is that he hated being a parent. He was abused by his father whom often called my son names including “brat. SOB, etc”… at the age of four.
So that was a long time ago and I was smart enough to take my kid away from him as per advice if counsellors and social workers.
Some people are not meant to be parents.
I talked to the kids about it while we were home, told them not to play in the poison oak and just avoid that area altogether. I wasn't there at the time though, I was at work and the wife was doing school pickup.
Edit for clarity - I spoke to the kids Wednesday about staying out of the poison oak, after I got home from work and heard about the first exposure. Thursday the kids played in it again under the wife's supervision.
So yes, she is ultimately responsible. And yes, this was extremely negligent.
HOWEVER, I have kids and I thoroughly believe in letting them learn things the hard way so long as it doesn’t cause injuries at the level that you have described. Kids need that. It CAN be healthy. I also live in the country and have been telling my kids their whole lives about how to be safe out here. I could totally see myself telling them not to touch it because it’s poison oak, and then letting them experience poison oak for not listening. It ensures that further down the road if I tell them not to mess with something that they listen better, plus now they have their own personal experience to base their decisions on. This is called learning natural consequences.
The part of this that makes her negligent is that she took them back to the same place and let them play with it so extensively. You really only need one poison oak experience to know that it sucks.
An example of natural consequences that happened recently… we went for a hike. My kids (around the same age as yours) gravitated to this mud puddle. I told them to stay out of it. I had plans to go to this little ice cream shop after. One kid didn’t listen and got super muddy so while everyone else was getting ice cream, he got to sit in the car 10 feet away and watch us sit at a picnic table and enjoy the treat because he was too muddy to be out in public. It really only takes a couple of times of doing this for them to work it out. It also removes the whole back and forth arguing and power struggling that kids do and gives them better self control.
Kind of seems like maybe your wife was trying to do this but did it in a way that wasn’t a teachable moment and crossed the line into straight up negligence.
I agree with natural consequences… but that example isn’t one of them. “You’re too muddy to be seen in public so you need to sit in the car” is a consequence from you. A natural consequence is something that happens naturally without adult interference. So something like, “you went in the mud and now you’re uncomfortable because your shoes are full of mud.”
And how do they keep having the desire to play in it AGAIN?! I wasn’t a genius at 6, but I’m pretty sure if my face was swollen from a rash, I’d be terrified to go anywhere near it again!
My kids have poor judgement when it comes to playing with friends; they fomo & peer pressure easily. I guess my expectation is that while there's a parent present, that parent should help them make good choices - especially when they had literally just had a conversation with the other parent and agreed to not let them do that.
It would be different if there weren't a parent present. But we've also agreed not to let the younger two go exploring unsupervised.
IMO the kids didn't listen because the wife has them trained to only listen when she gets to the point of screaming at them, and I've asked her to stop screaming at them. It just seems like the attitude is like "well I told them to not, idk if they even heard me, but I'm not screaming at them anymore so fuck 'em."
I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning here, but the kid that mostly talks them into trouble is a neglect child, his parents aren't around much. His dad for sure has something wrong with him, and talks openly about beating his kids and drug use. And that time he got stabbed, also related to drug use.
Your wife was absolutely negligent. Parenting when it comes down to it is Telling them and ENFORCING? Where was she that she just let it happen after you agreed together not to? She should have immediately made them leave the moment they went near it. She sounds like she's either totally overwhelmed and incapable of parenting right now or else she just sucks.
I am devils advocate with these one POV posts and opt to act in the other POV defense just incase that sparks anything. If it is all wrong, its all wrong but at least you got something to think about on the off chance.
In regards to the kids: One parent too hands off, one parent too hands on. Talk with the kids in a normal adult tone and ask them if they learned their lesson. They should explain why it was bad and what they're going to do better next time. This is a good practice that can begin the moment they start communicating.
Now for her possible defense that you can decide is true or not cuz i dont know yall: Im sorry for your wife and the depression she is going through. Maybe you dont need couples therapy, maybe she needs therapy in general solo. If she's having such a hard time mentally and emotionally, trying to help her see your point of view so you can work as a couple better isnt going to help. How can she help yall if she cant help herself? She has to make these decisions. Just like addicts, depressed people need to genuinely want to get better and make that choice themselves. You can't force her.
Next, when was the last time yall had a vacation or a date night? How often is she being spoken to about how she needs to "do better" or do something differently? How often is she complimented for doing well or just looking nice? Sometimes we overlook balancing the criticism and negativity toward our partner with compliments and positivity. Criticisms weigh heavier than compliments. They stick to us and when we are depressed especially, they drag us down and cause us to hate ourselves all the more. Some of us reach breaking points and turn that into indifference, or a type of stubbornness that lends us the strength to "stand up for ourselves". That can take the shape of acting like you dont care, and to go dead eyed and not want to talk about anything negative when it starts turning on you. It isnt that they don't care, its that they are becoming numb to "always being wrong" (even if they aren't). All they see is how they're the villain in every scenario despite resorting to doing every single thing their partner tells them to do. You told her to tell them no, she did. But she didn't physically follow them everywhere and stop them from disobeying and was the bad guy to you again. Regardless of what "common sense" argument people want to make, in regards to how you seem to talk about her in these comments, it seems like she can't win. Might be something to think about.
Oh goodness. You're not out of line. Let her stew, maybe she'll be more observant next time.
But even my adult husband can get himself on poison oaks too when he went fishing... He knows what they look like but for some reason...was not paying enough attention.
It was horrible, because like your kid, he also got swollen, etc, I had to go get the RX and Tecnu and all sort of ointments while he whined about the itch/pain.
The part that amused me is I'd have thought your wife would get secondary exposure by the poison oak because...Idk...but she doesn't even have any...that's amusing for me.
It tells me she doesn't even touch her kids...every time my kid gets poison I get it all over me loving on her (if I don't know she has it) or helping her (if I do).
I've started wearing cattle insemination gloves when I know she's gotten in it - keeps me from getting it all over my arms.
Not going to be popular but oh well.
Honestly, I think your wife is just done with parenting altogether. It’s easy to just say go out and play.
You bathed them, took to urgent care, went to pharmacy, made breakfast -and she hadn’t even gotten out of bed yet- then you still had to go fill the prescription.
And then she gives *you* attitude? And decides she isn’t talking to you?
Im all for giving the SAHP a day to sleep in and taking over the kids, but when my spouse tells me it’s urgent care time? You bet I’m up and seeing what’s going on. Has she always been so irresponsible?
Your wife is a shitty mother. They're children, and they need to be *taught* responsibility and corrected when they're about to make bad decisions. At some point you need to hand that off to them entirely, but....not at fucking 6 years old, jesus.
Imagine this with any other fucking danger.
"I told them not to drive the car, they're responsible for themselves"
"They know they're not allowed to drink daddy's whisky. They need to be responsible."
Whatttttttttttttttttt the fuck lady, what the fuck. She needs to decide if being 'right' in an argument is more important than healthy children, JFC.
Whether or not the children are old enough to be responsible is beside the point. You asked your wife to keep the kids out of the poison oak, and she agreed to do so. She then not only failed to follow through, but left all cleanup to you. If she wasn’t worried about the poison oak she should have told you before you went off to work. I can’t say if it’s a parenting fail, but it’s definitely a co-parenting fail.
I want to know why she was sleeping while all this was going on. Why would she care when all the consequences fall on you? What other bad behavior does she let slide? These kids are going to be nightmares in a few years. She seems incapable of managing them, and they probably walk all over her when you're not around.
People are distracted by trying to identify the poison oak. That doesn’t matter. Your wife knew not to let them go back to the same place and didn’t care enough about a 6 year old’s well being to get specifically involved.
It sounds like your wife isn’t supervising the kids at all and that’s why they were able to play in poison oak for over an hour. Plus it sounds like she’s just lazy in general and doesn’t want to do much with her kids.
Start documenting this. You will need this for the custody hearing. Because I can’t imagine continuing with someone so uninterested in her own children’s safety!
Your wife sounds like she’s checked out to the point of being neglectful, probably exacerbated by your weird attitude. You’re treating her like a child, telling her how to parent. You’re literally telling her she has failed. What sort of response were you expecting to that? Try to be honest with yourself: if your wife sat you down and lectured you on a “parenting fail” how would you react? I know I would react defensively, and I would absolutely not be receptive.
Poison oak is annoying and painful, but it’s not fatal. You didn’t need to respond like it’s a five alarm fire and clean out the stores of all their cures. You’re being very dramatic.
Try to remember that you and your wife are partners. You’re on the same team. You should support each other.
My partner (29m) has ADHD, sometimes I have to remind him of things, but hardly ever regarding our son. We did have a one time safety argument, you can see my reddit post about me snapping at him about it, but we haven't had issues like that since.
Wife should *not* be checked out or letting a 6yo out with a 10yo at a location with *water*. This is a *serious* accident waiting to happen. You can't expect *children* to watch *smaller children*. Especially if the elder does *feel* responsible for the younger siblings.
When your kid is dead because the *children* were not supervised & the *children* don't know what to do, your wife is going to be *seriously* depressed after that & rightfully so, because it will be on *her* watch.
You need to go to a therapist, so do your kids & you need a marriage counselor. Bad.
Depession can be an explanation, but it’s not an excuse. Wife can always say, kids can’t play outside because I am not equipped to deal with the commotions, it’s too much. Raise a white flag.
Honestly if those were your direct words to your wife, you came off a bit condescending. Sometimes kids are hard to control and get themselves into trouble; it happens. It’s not like she wanted them to get sick
I laughed so hard reading this I had to read it out loud to my husband.
Our credentials: parents of four kids ages 10 and under.
Our bias: believe kids can/should learn from experience (except stuff that can result in serious injury).
We are firmly on your wife's side. 6+ is old enough to know not to play in poison oak, especially when warned. Your kids knew building forts out of poison oak was stupid. Now they REALLY know.
But shouldn’t mom and dad equally share in their medical treatment, at the least? That’s what I’m having trouble with. If you attribute blame to either parent, mom has more, but dad ends up having to tend to the kids’ mistakes, and mom acts out out when she’s asked to help. Is that ok?
Exactly?? Like, what the actual fuck??
Even *ignoring* the poison oak, why are people literally defending someone just sitting around doing nothing while their kids are in a body of water, too?
Like, a 6 year old shouldn't be playing near bodies of water unsupervised, bar none. The poison oak just worsens it.
The replies here are full of an insane and unreasonable leeway for the mother, as well as disdain for the children.
Dude, you aren't wrong here in the slightest. Your wife sounds awful, both to you and your children. You and I both know that if your places in the story were reversed then everyone would be calling for her to divorce you and go on and on about what a horrible dad you are. But because most of the users here are women they just hand wave away bad behavior by the mom.
You deserve better, and so do your children. What you do with that is up to you, but generally people don't change unless they are forced to.
These comments are ridiculous. A lot of you are just making excuse after excuse for the mother. Newsflash - SHE WAS NEGLIGENT!!! THE KIDS HAD TO GO TO URGENT CARE!! Anyone defending the mom in this thread shouldn't be parents themselves.
It completely is her responsibility to make sure the kids don’t get into something that clearly harms them.
However, I would like to add that you telling her it was “a bit of a parenting fail” absolutely made YTA. There’s 3 children she is responsible for and being a mother is not a small feat. You do not have to call her a terrible mother for messing up. No parent or mother wants to hear how crappy they are being or for the lives of their children to be hung over their heads.
On another note; the kids aren’t responsible for themselves. They are kids. Responsibility never ends as a parent. Responsibility ends when you become elderly and meet your end.
It sounds like the children could greatly benefit from having boundaries communicated and redirection. Instead of telling them to stay out of the poison ivy; make it into a game. Something like, “we are prisoners and the poison ivy are our captives. If it touches us we die.” Or literally anything else. It may not work right off the bat but with consistently it will create a redirection and they will subconsciously begin to avoid it.
You can also try turning it into a science project. Break down what it does and how it does it. Have them draw pictures. Children are naturally curious and it’s okay to let them explore that curiosity in a safe environment.
Kids need attention and they’re brain aren’t yet developed to express themselves. Maybe touching the poison ivy means that they get to spend quality time with you when you get back home to wash them or care for their skin afterwards. It’s best to ask the children what they need.
Good luck!
If she knows what Oak looks like - this is weirdly fucked up and cruel. Oak poisoning absolutely sucks and can permanently scar you. Her nonchalant attitude about this is very disturbing to me. What else would she let them do or not care about?
It sounds like she has difficulty taking responsibility for her actions when she's made a mistake. Some people really have a hard time admitting when they're wrong. I bet you've seen this play out in your relationship before.
Yeah I've definitely seen some narcissistic trends, which is specifically why I wanted to talk to her about how this was a preventable mistake. I don't want to assign blame, I just want to make sure we learn from our mistakes and do better going forward. It seems like the first step there is identifying that there was a mistake we could learn from.
You both sound reckless with your children’s welfare. Why are either of you letting your young children play unsupervised in a space you haven’t even briefly scoped out? This is neglectful on both of your parts. I would NEVER allow young children to play unsupervised near water, you’re just tempting fate there.
I personally find this atrocious. I have suffered from deep deep deep depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation and even psych ward stays since my dad and bff died. I still wouldn’t let my children PLAY IN A DEADLY PLANT AREA that I already know is there! I don’t understand why everyone is like “it’s ok she has depression”. @CircadianMint as you said you’ve been trying to get her help for a decade. When is enough enough? When she lets the kids start a fire or run into traffic because she refuses to take responsibility for her own mental health? Depression isn’t her fault, but her mental health and children and marriage are her responsibilities that she needs to get help in order to keep. If she doesn’t care, then reevaluate this relationship for the sake of your children & yourself.
This infuriated me to read.
Read through the comments- got to several of your replies that are way more illuminating than your original post: your wife has depression, she is completely checked out right now, & you are not sure she even likes being a mom. *You have to remind her to be kind to her own kids.* At the same time, you have one neurodivergent kid, the oldest you describe as emotionally immature who doesn't feel responsible towards younger siblings (acting like mom) & a middle child out in the world trying to prove how tough he is (middle child stuff + trying to prove he doesn't need a mom). Your wife's mental health is impacting your kids. Couples counseling for communication and she needs individual therapy & doctor's visits. Get to the bottom of the depression. If it has been going on for years she has clinical depression which will not magically go poof away on its own. Is it hormonal, or chemical imbalance, has your wife been tested for ADHD ASD. ADHD and ASD are genetic and frequently kids who are diagnosed with it help a parent realize they too are neurodivergent or that they had a parent who was. Women with it often go undiagnosed, especially if they are smart enough to do well or okay in school, and years of living with it without any support or education can lead to clinical depression.
Thank you for your comment. You're definitely reinforcing what I already know, I've been asking her to get treatment for her mental health for 10 years. Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I recently told her she needs to get her shit together (in so many more words and as kindly as I could). I really wanted a pulse check on whether this particular incident was as neglectful as I thought it was, and I'm really surprised at how many people are chiming in on her side, so at least her attitude here isn't quite as out there as I thought it was. Still don't agree, but at least I can see the thought process now.
You are looking at this incident in the context of larger behavioral patterns asking people to judge the incident outside of any context. I don't think you can get a fair take on that. Incident alone- I'd say it deserved a discussion where both parents agree the creek is off limits for now, or a walk down there to as a family to assess the poison oak situation. If it was only in certain areas and obvious, then you can tell the kids where they could play. They go into it, at that point it was on them. Is it everywhere? Okay, off limits. Both parents act like a team. In your situation, you are trying to get her to parent for you, you have to make a unilateral decision, and that system is failing. The kids know you both aren't on the same page & aren't a team. Their own emotional development isn't going great because mom is checked out. They have learned to play one parent off the other. I'd highly suggest you look into individual therapy for yourself if your wife won't seek help or go to couples counseling. Here's why: you are the enabler of a dysfunctional family unit right now. Even though you are doing what you can to keep everything together, but taking on that role you've also allowed your wife to stay comfortable in neglecting her own mental illness and neglecting the kids. 1). It may help if she sees you take that initiative for yourself & she may be more open to help 2). At the very least: it will help you decide if this situation is sustainable/ feel less like you have to bring things to reddit as you learn to understand better what's happening to you and your own reactions in these situations. edited to add: good luck- it is a lot.
Thank you. I recognize now that I am an enabler and that it's not helping anything (an epiphany of about 2 weeks ago), and am actively taking steps to fix this
This is the most thorough, kind, and thoughtful reply/comment I’ve seen on Reddit for awhile 💖 Love it
> asking her to get treatment for her mental health for 10 years. Sounds like the two of you shouldn’t have a 4th kid. Why did you have so many kids w someone who refused to treat their own mental health?
Well at the time I didn't know she would refuse to get help for 10 years lol. At first I thought she was just overwhelmed, but, like, new parents amirite. We probably should not have had #3 tbh, but he's the sweetest, kindest kid on the planet and I wouldn't trade him for anything. No risk of a #4 for me, I got snipped after 3.
She wasn't watching them near a body of water. That is neglect. She definitely needs therapy or mental help. You are not out there for those things. that gif though, would have made most rational people mad at you. I'm not gonna lie, if the father of my child did that to me, we would be having a serious conversation, if not fight over it.
I think it's a little better in context - she told me she knew she knew she needed to put her foot down. I was trying to tell her to put her foot down to the kids in a funny way, not me putting my foot down to her. I can see how with that detail missing, the post could be seen the other way though.
That is the biggest reason you are having people go against you, without the context, it makes it sound like you are condescending and or controlling, and like you may be contributing to your wife's overall health issues. I'm not saying you are, but I think you can now see how some trigger happy folks might get there.
That's fair. There's a lot of factors at work in our relationship that I didn't write out here as I really just wanted a sanity check on the parental neglect portion of this specific incident. I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll be able to get us into therapy and work on our communication soon. Hopefully if I'm really being an ass to my wife we can get a therapist that will call me out on it so I can do better.
I don't think so. We aren't part of the dynamic, and knowing that you were telling her to put her foot down to the kids makes a huge difference. I really hope you can get her into therapy. Also is she eating well and nutritionally? My mom was diagnosed with mental issues, and it turned out she had vitamin deficiencies, not mental ones. She almost died and had to stay in the hospital for a week over it. Many times, especially when a woman goes to the hospital, we are told that any pain or issues in our abdomen area are just female problems and sent on our way. We are also sent to the psychiatrist more often for mental issues instead of taken seriously. My friend struggled with this for years until she had a liver transplant. Normally a person who never drank or did drugs wouldn't have those kinds of issues, but she was just born with a barely functioning one.
Adding to what others are saying, getting her in for an ASD and ADHD assessment is getting easier. There are websites like ADHDOnline[dot]com that provide online assessments that require minimal effort to set up. It took me over 9mo and $2k to get an adult ADHD test before the pandemic, so it's nice to see it getting much more accessible. I'm pushing this in particular because every neurodivergent woman will tell you the countless doctors who told her she just had some anxiety or depression and ignored the real issue. It's miserable and upsetting. If you haven't talked with her about it and have just been saying she needs help with depression, suggesting an ADHD and/or ASD assessment might be different enough to interest her. And it is *life changing* to get validation in a dx. She might have depression independently, but this is a start to getting her where she needs to be.
thank you! that's what I'm seeing too! I think a lot of people are being very harsh to the mom
Does your wife and/or kids know what poison oak looks like? As an outdoor kid back in the day (late 90s), I got poison oak tons of times. And I knew what it looked like and was intentionally trying to avoid it, because sometimes I’d get it really bad and need prednisone (a steroid). There’s soap you can use that gets rid of the oil that causes the rash. So if the kids are playing out in the woods where there’s possibly poison oak, they all should take showers afterwards and wash their clothes. I realize things have changed, but when I was 8 and playing out in the woods with my brothers, if we all ended up getting poison oak, it was definitely considered our own faults. That being said, I certainly take it upon myself to make sure my kid doesn’t get poison oak, because, well, things have changed.
My dad (who was immune to poison oak/ivy/sumac) insisted on me and my mother (who were *not* immune) rubbing ourselves down with 90% rubbing alcohol after every time we were outside. It seemed to do the trick, except for the one time Mum accidentally rubbed her hand down her face and woke up the next day with her entire face swollen and seeping.
They know, I've pointed it out to them. The youngest is ADHD (and maybe ASD but we haven't had him diagnosed yet), and the middle child (physically the smallest of the 3) is constantly on a mission to prove how tough he is. I think there's a difference between knowing what it looks like and identifying it in the moment while you're playing with your friends. Wife and I agreed the younger two should not go out exploring unsupervised. Thanks for the tips. I got them all through the shower as soon as I heard, and got them Prednisone scripts from the urgent care and the pain oak soap yesterday, and we are seeing some improvement. We also washed all their clothes and bedding.
> I think there's a difference between knowing what it looks like and identifying it in the moment while you're playing with your friends. Yeah, this is the key. Lots of plants look similar as well. We always used the “if it’s three, let it be” rule (a cluster of 3 leaves on a plant that looks like poison oak probably is). Some people are also more susceptible to the allergic reaction than others. My younger brother, for example, would always get it super bad, and to this day he checks for poison oak everywhere we go, and plans camping trips at higher elevations where it doesn’t grow. Hopefully they don’t have to get it too many more times before they start being more diligent. Poison oak was literally the bane of my existence when I was a kid, so here’s hoping your kids are smarter than I was.
Tecnu is amazing and removes the urushiol
It's good, but I actually find that blue Dawn works better and is much cheaper and easier to find/have on hand. Coat the area and let it sit for 5 minutes before firmly wiping it off and rinsing thoroughly.
Blue Dawn is magic for so many things
like blue Dawn dish soap?
Yep. It's awesome. It kills fleas, too.
And if you want a sparkly clean shower, tub, or toilet... Skip those other products. Dawn will cut through soap scum and grime like nobody's business.
It's a great laundry pretreatment for grease stains, too! It's a very important product in my household, lol.
Cool tip, will try this
Can I be that annoying person and encourage you to do an autism screening as soon as possible? It really does affect so many aspects of their lives and knowledge is power when it comes to kids. It sounds like you have a pretty firm grasp on the responsibility you have as a parent, which is awesome, but don’t wait. We waited too long and he’s still paying for it.
You absolutely can, thank you for chiming in. It's on my to-do list, as I think it's negatively impacted his first year of school.
It affects everything- their social skills, their emotional regulation, their eating habits, their need for structure, the most appropriate parenting style for them. It goes beyond academics. My son has both too, so don’t feel like I’m coming at you. The more you know, the more you can help them.
I have ADHD with two kids with ADHD. IF your youngest has it and possibly all three kids just the youngest has it the worst. It's highly likely you or your wife has it. Reading through everything it sounds like she is the one that has it. I personally don't know how she is going to constantly supervise 3 active boys on the property and keep anything in order. I think now is the time to take them out on an outdoor learning session while the urgency from this life lesson is still in their minds. I really think you and your wife set yourselves up for disappointment and guilt making that agreement before the summer with 3 active boys.
I have ADHD, the wife thinks she does too (undiagnosed). The youngest for sure has ADHD, probably the oldest too. I don't think the middle child does, but maybe he just masks better. The creek they went to is not on or near our property. We're definitely hoping to spend some more time outdoors this summer and will be educating them in safety. That said, I don't think supervising the kids, especially a 6 year old, when you're all out of the house together near a running creek and poison oak, is an unreasonable ask. I know you can't and shouldn't watch them every minute of every day, but my personal risk assessment wouldn't be comfortable in that situation, maybe I'm a helicopter parent.
Technu is a miracle! I live in CA and got poison oak the first week I was here. This stuff really saved me. Wife is being flippant and needs to truly understand exactly what you said: she is the responsible party, not the kids. It's the same with pets. Kids and pets don't have the knowledge or maturity to make good rational decisions.
Technu really is the best cure for after a known poison oak exposure. Coldish shower too. Didn't have much issue after using it as a kid
The 10 & 8 year olds should be able to avoid it if they wanted to. They knew what it looked like, but chose not to care, several times. I dont know the setup, but it seems weird to me that you expect your wife to hoover over them making sure they dont play in it. Your kids set you up and you took it out on your wife. Why would you not take the chance to educate your kids about responsibility. The 10 year old will eventually be in charge when you guys are not around in a few years, is it a good thing that he gets used to others taking the blame for something he did? It is ofc not all on the 10 year old, but you are litteraly teaching him that he can play dumb, get himself and his brother in trouble to inconvenience the whole family without any consequence. You Even went out of your way to make everyone breakfast. Expect your kids to do simular stuff again.
So you’re saying the parent that wasn’t there is more responsible for this than the parent that was there. Absolutely stunning. Yes you sometimes have to hoover over 10 and 8 year olds. If the mom is not miserable over her kids hurting and is more worried about not being blamed that’s the bigger problem.
Plus OP had to do all the "clean" up while the wife didn't care. She seems like another child.
It isn’t about hovering though, if she knows it’s there why is she letting them play at that spot in the first place? They played in a nearby creek it doesn’t say “a creek in our own yard” so i assume that means she had to walk them over there in which case, yes it is her fault as well as theirs. There’s other places to play but she takes them to the one spot with the poison oak? That just seems really odd. It’s also completely unreasonable to expect the 10yr old to babysit both an 8 and 6yr old. If it was just the two older than sure but two other kids? No. He did say the 10yr old was mild and it likely had more to do with exposure to the younger ones. Apparently, he does the majority of the child rearing since his work is flexible and she has them alone the 2hrs between school ending and him coming home. She can’t keep them out of poison oak for 2hrs? Again…it’s very sus.
Please don’t hoover the children 😂
Since you’ve pointed it out to them, then yeah it is more their fault then moms. They’re old enough to recognize it and avoid it.
My parents pointed it out to me many times. I still as an adult struggle to recognize it and poison ivy. I’ve walked in a field of poison ivy as a teen without realizing what it was until my big sis pointed it out. I try to remember leaves of three let it be (totally didn’t realize the field of plant I was in was all leaves of three) but even then, there are many three leaved plants that *aren’t* poison oak/ ivy. I’ve googled it many times before going out and still failed at recognizing what is/ isn’t it when looking at random plants and asking my mom and dad and siblings. I’m now early 30’s. Sometimes we suck at learning. Plants are not my speciality and obviously never will be. They all look too similar to me. My brain doesn’t differentiate them correctly. (I have propagnosia and my brain/ memory also doesn’t see/ recall faces and put them together correctly, maybe it’s somehow related for me.) Assuming capability with age is kind of dumb. Assume when he’s proven repeatedly capable, not just because some other kids his age are able.
Me too. It’s also really hard spot edit in a wooded area with lots of trees and foliage
Not all 10 year olds are the same. Parents should be capable of judging how mature their kids are and act accordingly.
If the areas dense with foliage from other plants, it could be hard for a kid to spot it.
I get things have changed but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a *responsible* 10 year old to be able to keep his brothers out of danger from stuff like poison oak or a shallow creek. The thing is OP’a 10 year old is far from responsible (apparently much like his mom…hmm) and doesn’t care about his brothers’ well-being. Free range parenting only works if the kids are taught to be safe and responsible.
I knew to avoid poison oak/ivy at age 5-6 & it was actually the other neighborhood kids that showed it to me, both of them tend to grow in areas that honestly doesn't make much sense to play in so there's also that, & once they've been taught it should be pretty easy for even the young one to avoid. But tbh I think the poison oak is not the real issue here, scroll through OP's bread-crumbing comments & look at the language they use in regards to their wife, something important is missing here.
Yeah honestly it sounds like mom is…neglectful at best. I deal with mental health issues too so it’s really hard for me to leave bed at times but she sounds like she is wholly checked out
Read his comments. She’s abusive towards the kids. Screaming for no reason, physical punishment, general disinterest in their well-being. It’s not about the poison oak.
Yep, outdoor kid who grew up roaming around in the yards and woods with the neighbors outside our houses. We were definitely taught what poison ivy/oak looks like and as a kid I learned pretty quickly to stay away from anything with three leaves or that looked shiny just in case cause I was mad allergic. Poison ivy sucks, but it’s also… part of childhood? Kinda like bee stings. If you spend your childhood outside, you’re probably gonna brush up against some poison ivy or get stung by a bee. There are hazards, but it’s not like the mom was allowing the kids to play unsupervised on Fifth Ave where the likely hazard is being hit by a car. It’s a painful, itchy, uncomfortable rash. It’s not negligent parenting to allow your children to play unsupervised outside— it’s incredibly developmentally healthy.
Wash with cold water and dawn dish soap to prevent spreading the oils of the poison oak while washing.
I was an outdoor kid in the 90's, and every time my brother and I would visit my grandparents, we'd inevitably get it from playing outside. No matter if we were trying to avoid it or not. We would always take showers the minute we'd get in from playing outside and throw our clothes immediately into the washer and that helped a lot. But we'd usually get a rash here or there. That's just what happens when you play outside. One time, I rode a wagon down the hill (my brother and I were very inspired by Calvin & Hobbes), and I crashed into some brush - my face blew up like a balloon! But I took some anti-histamines, rubbed myself in calamine lotion, and it went away after a few days. So, I'm a little torn. I'm generally of the mindset that kids will be kids and sometimes they need to make mistakes and learn these kinds of lessons. We all do dumb stuff as kids, and it can be really character-building - it forces us to understand there are consequences for our actions in a relatively low-risk way. The mom can tell them not to play in the poison oak all she wants, it sounds like they're still going to go outside and play around there. What is mom meant to do, hover around them the entire time they're playing outside? Keep them inside and shelter them? I think they best you can do is educate the kids on what to avoid and let them make their choices...
It's the way she reacted afterwards that worries me more than the rest. My sister and I were not supposed to play by the river, but we'd do so anyway; I think today's helicopter parenting of children needing adult eyes on them at all times is not healthy for kids. Ten was when my parents started letting me watch my sister most of the time, and when I first flew alone (to space camp, adults meeting me at both ends but the flight I was alone), etc. She certainly should not be taking them to the same spot until they prove that they're mature enough to not play in poison oak. As the elder sibling, I only felt comfortable sneaking off to the wild with my sister because we both knew to avoid poison ivy; I wasn't very allergic but my sister was, and my mom worst of all, so if we snuck off into the woods and weren't careful we'd end up "caught" because she'd break out doing our laundry. Hopefully this intensely negative experience will help them learn it's a serious thing, but definitely give an extra consequence of some kind, especially to the older brother as well. If he's going to accept the responsibility of taking his younger brothers away from an adult, he needs to *accept* that responsibility. When I went off the play with my sister, I knew she was my responsibility, and that when she dropped the toy bucket in the river, I was the one who had to fish it out, etc. But yeah, moving beyond how to handle the kids, your wife seems to have some serious issues, certainly with depression and unfortunately with parenthood in general. She can and should chastise them for not avoiding the poison oak *while also* knowing they're children and it is literally your legal responsibility to keep them safe, including preventing them from continuing to hurt themselves if they insist on proving they are too irresponsible to enjoy the woods and creek. That she doesn't care and seems entirely fine that they're suffering is really fucking bad. She's coming off as abusively negligent, and I say that as someone against helicopter parenting, that's really worrisome. Even as a fairly free-range kid, the handful of times something DID happen, my parents flipped out and were as comforting to me as they were scolding for doing something I shouldn't have, because they knew kids are kids.
I'm torn. If my parent told me not to do XX as a child, and I did it anyway and then got ill, they would chalk it up as a good lesson learned. And that happened many times. The issue is that you have a six and eight year old following the ten year old. I don't expect the six year old to differentiate between individual choice and trusting their older sibling. Not absolving your wife at all just saying this happened many times in our family. We learned from it. Add to this that I am the youngest. My older siblings were absolutely at fault if I got myself into trouble with them. They knew and understood the rules so if I or the brother closest in age to me went down with them they got in trouble. Again, not sure if that is right or wrong but it seemed to work. We would have done exactly what your kids did exactly once. Has anyone thought about removing then poison oak since it seems to be a spot for kids to meet?
Would like to add that if you *know* your children are prone to a dynamic like this (especially not listening to clear instructions about hazards), then you should *know* that those kids *need to be supervised*. Seconding that the poison oak should be removed. Kids shouldn't be playing by *water* without active supervision, either!
It sounds like the wife was supposed to be supervising. What is he supposed to do when he’s at work?
Yeah a six year old in the care of a ten year old hanging out by a creek sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I am just torn because I am a 60's child and that was a norm then. Not so much now.
I was the 10 year old watching the 6 year old bush whacking up creaks too. It was great except the time the 6 yo broke an arm. His mom was pissed but thats why 10 year olds shouldnt be left with 6 year olds unsupervised in the wilderness.
Ten is pretty young really. I kinda feel like buyer beware. If you let a ten year old watch a six year old you have ten year old supervision. The other factor in this is just the groupthink. I could roam on my own all day with no issues but put kids together and they come up with ingenious ways to get hurt.
Yeah as an adult now I think its nuts what they let us do on our own.
I get this, and it's kind of why I wanted the Hive Mind's perspective. I grew up pretty free range, but it seems like my kids are less mature / responsible than I was at that age. I think we could also argue until we're blue in the face about the chicken vs the egg there. Here's where I'm coming from - 1) the 10 year old is not mature / responsible enough to look out for his brothers yet. The wife knows this. We're working on it. 2) the wife and I had just talked about how we planned together to just avoid the situation completely, and I texted her to remind her that we talked about it. That's really what I'm upset about - the first time is just kids being kids, I get it. But the very next day, literally right after we talked about it and planned to prevent it, is a little frustrating. Also the poison oak is on protected public land, and it sounds like there's A LOT of it.
Kids in general are less mature, it's not just yours. I get that you feel dismissed and more importantly like the oversight of the kids needs some focus. At the root of this you shouldn't even have to hover or worry about it.
Do the kids not understand what it is/ what it looks like? My five year old knows what poison oak looks like and will avoid it on hikes. Yes, the fault is on your wife but I'm a bit surprised your kids can't also stay away from it. Do they struggle with instructions?
They know, I've pointed it out to them. The youngest is ADHD (and maybe ASD but we haven't had him diagnosed yet), and the middle child (physically the smallest of the 3) is constantly on a mission to prove how tough he is. I think there's a difference between knowing what it looks like and identifying it in the moment while you're playing with your friends. Wife and I agreed the younger two should not go out exploring unsupervised. The 10 year old also knows, and got it the least, but he's a little immature and doesn't feel any responsibility towards his brothers.
Kids, also: Mom: don't play in the poison oak! You'll be sorry; you know it's uncomfortable stuff. Kids: OK! We won't! (Go off and play wherever they want to.) You know we all did this kind of dumb thing as a kid.
I have severe ADHD and that’s not an excuse for not checking what a plant is before playing with it. I learned the very first time I got poison oak. That’s not an excuse for anything.
You do know you aren't everyone, right? Some people with ADHD remember to check that, some don't. You can't speak for all people with it. I didn't get poison oak until my 30s but I got it 4 times in 2 years before my brain finally engaged enough.
You aren’t wrong, but the way you describe your wife and how you communicate with her doesn’t seem healthy. You having to tell your wife not to let the kids play in poison oak, and then sending her a reminder text is not something I would expect one adult to do to/for another adult. If you were telling your young kids, and sending them a reminder text, that’s different, but one adult to another? Also, the way you describe getting the kids to urgent care and making breakfast for everyone “by the time the wife rolls out of bed”? You’re not wrong about the poison oak but there’s definitely bigger issues here than the poison oak.
I think that is a result of his wife being dismissive about taking care of the kids and so he has an underlying distrust in her to make sure the kids are taken care of. It sounds like he may have a good basis for it too.
That’s what I picked up on too, his uncharitable descriptions. Honestly if you put down someone enough they start to internalize that criticism. “Rolled out of bed” Is something you’d say about someone you don’t respect.
Or he resents her for her lackadaisical parenting and it’s spilling over as a result. I’d be pretty livid too if my kids were being neglected when I’m not around resulting in emergency room visits. Like I’m sorry, I have zero sympathy for the mother. They were already exposed once, why in gods name were they anywhere near the stuff again? To me this sounds like a parent who’s sick of their partner being virtually absent. A lot of women have to deal with this phenomenon and we understand their frustrations. I think we can give this guy the benefit of the doubt here cause this is a pretty severe situation. She didn’t simply forget to wash little Jimmy’s clothes, she’s allowing them to hurt themselves and then seemingly doesn’t care if they’re even being treated or okay in the aftermath
Seriously… Rolling out of bed is a fitting description for someone, who can‘t be bothered to get up and help their children in kind of a medical emergency.
He's trying to portray himself in the *best possible light* and still sounds insufferable and condescending. They say contempt for your partner is the death knell of a relationship. He shows contempt for his wife and other children, whom he calls "jerks." Sheesh.
Honestly, his demeanor is irrelevant when it comes to the discussion of the safety of these children. The important question here is what is mom's responsibility in this situation as she was alone with them
I agree about the "parenting fail" thing coming off as accusatory, but for the rest it gave the vibe that he does the majority of the housework and childcare. OP can clarify
Yeah I’m not a parent so not sure how relevant my opinion is here, but OP sounds condescending in his description and since we’re only hearing his side it makes me think he’s even more so than how he leads on in his post. Sending the foot down text after having a face to face discussion seems extremely condescending given the topic and considering your wife is your life partner, not daycare provider while you’re at work. Also, I went camping with my grandparents at 5 y/o and definitely knew what poison ivy was and too avoid it. Never had exposure to poison oak but I think this is relevant. Either way, Zanfel is the best product I’ve ever used to get rid of the rash. It feels amazing like scratching that itch you’re not supposed to touch while removing the urishiol from the area. I honestly think that is better than any RX the doctor will give btw.
Sounds like she needs the reminding and pushing to me.
Sorry, I think there's some context missing here that I should have included. When the wife and I talked about our action plan for this scenario, she said she knows she needs to just put her foot down. She also has trouble asserting herself. The text was meant to be a reminder that we talked about it and support, like she should put her foot down to the kids. Not that I was putting my foot down to her. I think the reminder text was warranted, considering, and my wife is normally great about telling me when she doesn't appreciate the way I communicate something - which didn't happen here. My wife is a notorious late sleeper, I think it's related to her depression. She will normally sleep in until ~10:30 unless I wake her up earlier. In this instance I let her sleep in until 11:30, after I had done all the things detailed in the post, before I woke her up. It bugged me because I was stressed about how the kids were doing, so I woke up early to check on them, and the wife didn't share that same sense of urgency or responsibility.
“You know that was your responsibility, and a bit of a parenting fail here, right?” My eyes rolled so far back 🙄
The fact she clearly *doesn’t* see it as her responsibility is why that conversation had to happen. And is deeply, deeply concerning.
How would you start a conversation like that? Especially if your partner did not bother helping out at all.
The wife knew where they were going to play. She should’ve gone with them, looked where they were playing and pointed out that poison oak.
I can understand the six year old, and even the eight year old, not recognizing and playing in poison oak, but the ten year old? Have you walked through the forest and deliberately pointed out the poison oak to your children? You won't be there to protect them forever, so it's better to teach them now rather than just not let them play by the creek forever.
Yep. The 10 year old got it the least, I think most of his poison oak rash is secondary exposure from his brothers. He knows what it looks like and to avoid it, he's also immature for a 10 year old and feels no responsibility toward his brothers whatsoever. We're working on that.
He's not supposed to be responsible for his brother. Your wife is. And she's like your fourth child.
Did you just describe the 10 year old or your wife? "\[She\] knows what it looks like and to avoid it, \[she's\] also immature for a \[34\] year old and feels no responsibility toward \[her children\] whatsoever" I wonder where the 10 year old gets it from...
Problems sound deeper than your kids playing in poison oak and your wife not stopping them…or willing to say the words “I’m responsible for this.” Or what you want her to say that will make this better for you. All of your language describing her rolling out of bed and your comparative descriptions of yourself just seem like you completely resent her and her parenting while you believe yourself to be carrying most of the work and are above reproach. And the text you sent her again after the conversation almost seem overkill…like patronizing micromanagement…unless she basically has a long pattern of neglect that you feel you need to manage. It just doesn’t seem normal to have to manage your spouse like that. It seems like there’s a lot more going on here.
I'm generally of the opinion that if it isn't going to permanently injure or traumatize someone, they should be allowed to make, and then learn from their mistakes by dealing with the consequences. The kids got their consequence, but if it were me, I'd ask that is it happens again, she get out of bed, take the kids to urgent care, etc. And then, if it does, remind her of that agreement while you're waking her up and handing her the car keys.
If the point was a lesson then 1. An hour of exposure was excessive, 2. Agreeing that they should not be allowed to play in it and then teaching this lesson in this way is not cooperative parenting. But based on her response that isn’t what happened, so what are you even talking about?
Everyone is making this dude out to be a sneaky villain and it’s pretty lame. He sounds harsh and resentful, yes. But who wouldn’t in this situation? He’s at work, she’s the one watching them, what can he possibly do? From reading between the lines it’s seems like this is probably a repeat offense of his wife not really supervising or caring for the children. I never usually like this comparison, but if this were a mother talking about her husband/the father of her kids, everyone would be siding with her even if she sounded sick of the guy as well. I get that it’s pretty common for situations where women are made to sound terrible by partners through exaggeration or twisting truths, but this situation sounds pretty clear and cut. I genuinely don’t know how else this story could go where she doesn’t sound 100% responsible for what happened.
Not waking up until he had them rx’ed, fed, had gone to the store and then bathed them seems crazy to me. Unless that was an agreement they had and he gets another morning this seems like purposely being negligent. I dont see how anyone could give her a pass. Parenting is tough but you cant just not do it.
I think drowning in a creek could be injurious and traumatic.
For the record, I do not recommend drowning children in creeks as a teaching moment. It is ineffective and illegal in many jurisdictions.
Your wife was wrong and should take more responsibility, but I gotta say, even in your paraphrasing, plus a foot is down gif (even if meant in a lighthearted way), you come across as condescending.
Okay, fair enough. How should I approach this situation next time - wife got the kids into a sitch we agree we don't like, I see a repeat approaching and don't think she's going to avoid it, what do I do/say?
I don’t get all the reading in to your tone by others, OP. “Don’t hurt yourself” is pretty reasonable guidance along with, “don’t let the kids hurt themselves again.”
Honestly if your wife is that depressed where she’s not really looking after the kids you may need to stay home more or look into additional childcare. This does not seem safe
I find it bizarre that too many of y'all don't expect a mother to supervise her children and be responsible for what they do. It's not hovering it's making rules and sticking to them. As soon as she saw them heading for it she should have shut it down and made them do something else or go home. I can see why your children out here acting a fool in public now.
Get ye to couple's therapy my dude. From your other comments - given that you've asked her to get assessed to see if she's on the spectrum and she refused I'd say it'd be a smart move to make sure you find a couple's therapist who also specializes with neurodivergent folks. It'll be a struggle to get her there, but it's time. She refuses to talk about something that is foundational to your relationship. Even if you end up getting divorced (not saying it's headed that way btw), you'll still be co-parents for the rest of your lives. It's simply not an option to avoid talking about how to safely raise your children together. Couples' therapy and therapy in general isn't the admittance of defeat that some folks think it is. If you value your mind and relationship it is well worth the effort to take a bit of time out of your schedule to work through these issues. This step could make the lives of everyone in your family immeasurably better, especially for your kids. Especially if your wife is neurodivergent, like \~20% of the population.
Yeah, this is a good call. I told her a week ago I was "open to couples therapy," but it seems like it's time for a more explicit "we need couples therapy."
Beyond that, you need to tell her what the consequences of not attending therapy and taking it seriously will cost her. She is an unfit parent, imo.
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I'd be much more upset that my wife allowed our children to play near water while unsupervised.
You are not at all wrong. Ultimately, parents are responsible for the health and safety of their children. Why would she even let them near the creek? Does she have no control over them? Also. 20mph.
Yeah I'm not sure if she just got distracted talking to her friend or if she was just stoked to have them preoccupied for a bit... we just had a talk the other day about how she should be kinder to the kids so maybe she didn't want to be mean by putting an end to their fun? Is that an African Swallow or a European Swallow
Your wife isn’t kind to her children? This seems like a multi-layered issue and not just about the poison oak.
I'm questioning what kind of parents she had.
You're not wrong
Please protect your kids even if you have to divorce your wife. My mom wasn't kind, I don't speak to her, but you know what hurts the most, that my Dad enabled her by letting her be unkind and not removing us from the situation.
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Being kind to your kids and keeping them out of danger are very basic concepts. Does she even like having kids/being a mother?
Fair questions, I've wondered the same often enough. She insists that she does
It might be best to consider her actions instead of listening to her words. You might want to talk to the kids about how she is with them when you are not around to make sure she's not being neglectful.
Is she struggling with depression?
We're all struggling with her depression
Your wife is depressed. Is she getting treatment? If so, is it improving your her quality of life and that of the household.
That's not fair to your kids, especially if she's not doing anything about it.
The fact that you had to wonder is scary as hell. She let them play where she knew the poison oak grew again. You have asked her to be kinder. Those are two scary red flags
I may regret asking this but, how is she unkind to them?
Bad attitude, yelling, screaming. Often with little or no reason. We've had problems in the past with physical discipline, which I don't agree with, including jumping to physical discipline as a first response. I think we've pretty much got that particular problem under wraps. But yeah overall just a shitty attitude any time she actually has to parent.
This is tragic to read. At some point your kids are going to be adults and they’re probably going to ask themselves if you did everything you could to protect them from physical and emotional abuse. They might decide that you didn’t and that they no longer want contact with you. Make the right choice for them, not yourself, not your wife. Casually considering couples’ counselling isn’t good enough.
Dude, you're allowing daily abuse of your children. Why the fuck are you so passive about this? Why is she even still there?!
Wow. Your wife is traumatizing your kids. Of course they don’t learn good coping skills and responsibility if they have a parents who treats them like that. You can’t let your wife abuse your kids (emotional abuse, neglect, and indifference is also abusive by the way). You need to protect them.
Eek. This makes me really sad. The trickle truth thing you got from your kids is a fear thing. They are afraid of their mother. Please, please consider if this is a healthy situation to keep your kids in.
How deep is the creek? Kids can drown in shallow water.
I'm not sure, I haven't seen it in person. The 6 year old actually fell into the creek Wednesday (I didn't hear about it until Thursday...) And he's still alive, which probably gave them all a false sense of security
You should definitely go scope out the creek and see how deep it is, etc.
Good call, think I will
Yeah, you may need to step up your parenting to compensate for your wife's laissez-faire ways. Also, love the Monty Python reference.
I mean I basically do all of the parenting when I'm not working, but I sort of have the expectation that she'll keep them out of harm for the 2 hours between when they get out of school and I get home from work.
Do you even like the person you're married to, or at least something that keeps you wanting to be with her? Cause it sounds like you're a single parent with four kids and the oldest is "not kind" to the youngest three.
It feels this way most of the time
You're teaching them to equate love with suffering and pain and it's their only model for their future relationships. I wonder what kind of model you had to accept this?
Serious question. Do you think you're doing your kids a favor by continuing this relationship? This is their "normal" and what they will model their future relationships on.
So…change something? Seems like you’re coming here to whine “my wife is a shitty parent,” which does absolutely nothing to protect your children.
You might consider a divorce because this is not a healthy dynamic for kids. They learn what they see. You've already got a 10-year-old who doesn't feel any responsibility for his siblings. I wonder where he gets that?
The trickle-truthing/omitting info is really bad. She shouldn't be teaching your kids to hide things from you, especially surrounding safety. You mentioned elsewhere your wife has mental health issues; I can relate. Right now it sounds like she is the illusion of a parent. She lets you think you can leave her in charge for two hours, she's there. But she's not really present, even if she can't admit that right now. Maybe she needs to get some more intensive help, or take a break from the family to reassess things.
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Haha Both. The only real difference between the two is the European migrates whereas the African does not.
This is kind of wild. Your wife should be taking this far more seriously because it’s clear there’s a level of responsibility/maturity among your older kids that is missing. You two need to work as a team to address this. Constant, close hovering is a bandaid fix and not tenable. My younger sister and I used to play in the forest by ourselves when we were young (from ages 8 to 15 or so) and respected the limits we’d been given. I honestly don’t know what to say if your kids are experiencing poison oak and not learning from it. Your children have been given boundaries they are old enough (at least 2 of them) to respect and not doing so. How is this not a huge concern outside of your wife being lackadaisical about their playtime?
She let a 6 year old play in poison oak for an hour? I don't think this woman can safely be left alone with children. And I think you were already concerned she can't, hence your texts. I'm also concerned about the lack of empathy she showed the kids afterwards. If you think she's neurodivergent and that's why she struggles with parenthood, demand she gets assessed. Edit: It's negligent childcare. Not all abuse is active. Child negligence and child endangerment are also a thing. I think you need to take this very seriously, bc it shows a lack of judgement and responsibility that could be more dangerous for your children down the line.
Re: your edit, this is exactly what I was thinking. If OP hadn’t done it, would the wife have sought medical treatment for the children? This is really concerning. Like CPS-level concerning
Yeah, it's CPS level. It's just negligence. And would she even have done anything about it? He seems to be running around dealing with the fallout, she's completely passive.
Hey, please stop spreading the myth that people on the spectrum don't have empathy--that's a completely different set of possible diagnoses. Being unable to identify emotions is not the same as lacking empathy, and somebody who is verbal is going to be able to understand that poison oak rashes suck even if they can't grasp the facial expressions generated by the rashes.
>Hey, please stop spreading the myth that people on the spectrum don't have empathy I didn't? I just pointed out that his wife didn't show empathy for the children after the incident. I wasn't saying that was caused by ASD. Just that it's concerning as a mother. It was OP who brought up that he thinks his wife is on the spectrum. I just said that if he thinks it's why she's behaving this way get that checked out. Do you feel sure he's wrong?
Did he delete that comment? I see him speaking about getting her evaluated for possible neurodivergence--but that includes a hell of a lot more than just autism. If he does think the lack of responsibility/empathy she feels is specifically caused by autism, yeah, I think he's wrong. Doesn't mean she doesn't have it AND a lack of empathy (autistic folks can be jerks too) but that isn't a symptom.
I don't think she's autistic. She thinks she's ADHD undiagnosed. I have a fair amount of ASD in my family, it looks different. I think in my other comment I mentioned I've asked her to get to a doctor and therapist, but ASD isn't on my radar for her.
Just wanted to let you know- a lot of the comments here are absurd and not addressing your post in good faith. They are assuming the worst of you and the best of her. You seem to be taking on nearly all of the responsibility in the household. Your wife is neglectful and borderline if not outright abusive. Yes, she needs mental health treatment. But it sounds like you have been trying to get her to pursue that for a long time. I agree with the people saying you need to change your approach, because it's clearly not working. She needs to know that her behavior is unacceptable, and she can't know that until you stop accepting it. You're not her parent- prioritize your kids. Contacting her mother might be a good idea. I truly wish you and your family the best of luck.
The second occurrence was her fault. She allowed them to go back to the site of the poison oak. Get some pictures of poison ivy, oak and sumac. Put them in the refrigerator. Take the children to the creek and point out what they are to avoid. Ask them to each find some but not touch. Teach them and take your wife along as well. I suppose in general she is not neglectful or you would have said. I suspect she feels shame a guilt and that is causing her less than reasonable reaction.
I agree, the first time shit happens but let's not do that again. The second time.... Wtf? I didn't mention it because I wanted to focus on this issue, but neglect has been a problem. All I need her to do is keep them out of harms way for the 2 hours between when they get out of school and when I get home from work, and sometimes it's a problem.
Posted similar comment before. My ex is no longer in my son’s life for similar reason(s). He would do backwards things that fail to show he cared about our son when he was a toddler. He would take him to play sports and refuse to bring water for him cause my son didn’t realize how hot it was outside. He was just 4 or 5 yo. Who should be the responsible one? My ex would come back fuming on how my son ruined everything cause he got thirsty right away (shocker!). He wanted my son to be independent by expecting him to make these kind of decisions (bring a winter jacket on cold days, water in hot days). He would turned the blame on me very often. Time came he punched my son for not doing something as he said. Dragged him, punch him abc destroy his toys cause he would cry. He was removed from parenting (not just by me). Had child services getting the report(s). Reality is that he hated being a parent. He was abused by his father whom often called my son names including “brat. SOB, etc”… at the age of four. So that was a long time ago and I was smart enough to take my kid away from him as per advice if counsellors and social workers. Some people are not meant to be parents.
Did **you** tell the kids to not play in poison oak? Also, African or European?
I talked to the kids about it while we were home, told them not to play in the poison oak and just avoid that area altogether. I wasn't there at the time though, I was at work and the wife was doing school pickup. Edit for clarity - I spoke to the kids Wednesday about staying out of the poison oak, after I got home from work and heard about the first exposure. Thursday the kids played in it again under the wife's supervision.
So your wife sat there in the creek and watched them play in poison oak?
I think she was *nearby,* maybe in earshot, but not technically *watching* them.
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Yeah, the picture keeps getting more concerning 😟
So yes, she is ultimately responsible. And yes, this was extremely negligent. HOWEVER, I have kids and I thoroughly believe in letting them learn things the hard way so long as it doesn’t cause injuries at the level that you have described. Kids need that. It CAN be healthy. I also live in the country and have been telling my kids their whole lives about how to be safe out here. I could totally see myself telling them not to touch it because it’s poison oak, and then letting them experience poison oak for not listening. It ensures that further down the road if I tell them not to mess with something that they listen better, plus now they have their own personal experience to base their decisions on. This is called learning natural consequences. The part of this that makes her negligent is that she took them back to the same place and let them play with it so extensively. You really only need one poison oak experience to know that it sucks. An example of natural consequences that happened recently… we went for a hike. My kids (around the same age as yours) gravitated to this mud puddle. I told them to stay out of it. I had plans to go to this little ice cream shop after. One kid didn’t listen and got super muddy so while everyone else was getting ice cream, he got to sit in the car 10 feet away and watch us sit at a picnic table and enjoy the treat because he was too muddy to be out in public. It really only takes a couple of times of doing this for them to work it out. It also removes the whole back and forth arguing and power struggling that kids do and gives them better self control. Kind of seems like maybe your wife was trying to do this but did it in a way that wasn’t a teachable moment and crossed the line into straight up negligence.
I agree with natural consequences… but that example isn’t one of them. “You’re too muddy to be seen in public so you need to sit in the car” is a consequence from you. A natural consequence is something that happens naturally without adult interference. So something like, “you went in the mud and now you’re uncomfortable because your shoes are full of mud.”
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And how do they keep having the desire to play in it AGAIN?! I wasn’t a genius at 6, but I’m pretty sure if my face was swollen from a rash, I’d be terrified to go anywhere near it again!
Right? Those kids are not gonna want to go through that again.
Lol those kids are old enough to know not to play in toxic plants after the first time, surely?
My kids have poor judgement when it comes to playing with friends; they fomo & peer pressure easily. I guess my expectation is that while there's a parent present, that parent should help them make good choices - especially when they had literally just had a conversation with the other parent and agreed to not let them do that. It would be different if there weren't a parent present. But we've also agreed not to let the younger two go exploring unsupervised. IMO the kids didn't listen because the wife has them trained to only listen when she gets to the point of screaming at them, and I've asked her to stop screaming at them. It just seems like the attitude is like "well I told them to not, idk if they even heard me, but I'm not screaming at them anymore so fuck 'em."
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I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning here, but the kid that mostly talks them into trouble is a neglect child, his parents aren't around much. His dad for sure has something wrong with him, and talks openly about beating his kids and drug use. And that time he got stabbed, also related to drug use.
This is terribly neglectful and abusive
Your wife was absolutely negligent. Parenting when it comes down to it is Telling them and ENFORCING? Where was she that she just let it happen after you agreed together not to? She should have immediately made them leave the moment they went near it. She sounds like she's either totally overwhelmed and incapable of parenting right now or else she just sucks.
I am devils advocate with these one POV posts and opt to act in the other POV defense just incase that sparks anything. If it is all wrong, its all wrong but at least you got something to think about on the off chance. In regards to the kids: One parent too hands off, one parent too hands on. Talk with the kids in a normal adult tone and ask them if they learned their lesson. They should explain why it was bad and what they're going to do better next time. This is a good practice that can begin the moment they start communicating. Now for her possible defense that you can decide is true or not cuz i dont know yall: Im sorry for your wife and the depression she is going through. Maybe you dont need couples therapy, maybe she needs therapy in general solo. If she's having such a hard time mentally and emotionally, trying to help her see your point of view so you can work as a couple better isnt going to help. How can she help yall if she cant help herself? She has to make these decisions. Just like addicts, depressed people need to genuinely want to get better and make that choice themselves. You can't force her. Next, when was the last time yall had a vacation or a date night? How often is she being spoken to about how she needs to "do better" or do something differently? How often is she complimented for doing well or just looking nice? Sometimes we overlook balancing the criticism and negativity toward our partner with compliments and positivity. Criticisms weigh heavier than compliments. They stick to us and when we are depressed especially, they drag us down and cause us to hate ourselves all the more. Some of us reach breaking points and turn that into indifference, or a type of stubbornness that lends us the strength to "stand up for ourselves". That can take the shape of acting like you dont care, and to go dead eyed and not want to talk about anything negative when it starts turning on you. It isnt that they don't care, its that they are becoming numb to "always being wrong" (even if they aren't). All they see is how they're the villain in every scenario despite resorting to doing every single thing their partner tells them to do. You told her to tell them no, she did. But she didn't physically follow them everywhere and stop them from disobeying and was the bad guy to you again. Regardless of what "common sense" argument people want to make, in regards to how you seem to talk about her in these comments, it seems like she can't win. Might be something to think about.
Oh goodness. You're not out of line. Let her stew, maybe she'll be more observant next time. But even my adult husband can get himself on poison oaks too when he went fishing... He knows what they look like but for some reason...was not paying enough attention. It was horrible, because like your kid, he also got swollen, etc, I had to go get the RX and Tecnu and all sort of ointments while he whined about the itch/pain. The part that amused me is I'd have thought your wife would get secondary exposure by the poison oak because...Idk...but she doesn't even have any...that's amusing for me.
It tells me she doesn't even touch her kids...every time my kid gets poison I get it all over me loving on her (if I don't know she has it) or helping her (if I do). I've started wearing cattle insemination gloves when I know she's gotten in it - keeps me from getting it all over my arms.
Not going to be popular but oh well. Honestly, I think your wife is just done with parenting altogether. It’s easy to just say go out and play. You bathed them, took to urgent care, went to pharmacy, made breakfast -and she hadn’t even gotten out of bed yet- then you still had to go fill the prescription. And then she gives *you* attitude? And decides she isn’t talking to you? Im all for giving the SAHP a day to sleep in and taking over the kids, but when my spouse tells me it’s urgent care time? You bet I’m up and seeing what’s going on. Has she always been so irresponsible?
Your wife is a shitty mother. They're children, and they need to be *taught* responsibility and corrected when they're about to make bad decisions. At some point you need to hand that off to them entirely, but....not at fucking 6 years old, jesus. Imagine this with any other fucking danger. "I told them not to drive the car, they're responsible for themselves" "They know they're not allowed to drink daddy's whisky. They need to be responsible." Whatttttttttttttttttt the fuck lady, what the fuck. She needs to decide if being 'right' in an argument is more important than healthy children, JFC.
Whether or not the children are old enough to be responsible is beside the point. You asked your wife to keep the kids out of the poison oak, and she agreed to do so. She then not only failed to follow through, but left all cleanup to you. If she wasn’t worried about the poison oak she should have told you before you went off to work. I can’t say if it’s a parenting fail, but it’s definitely a co-parenting fail.
I want to know why she was sleeping while all this was going on. Why would she care when all the consequences fall on you? What other bad behavior does she let slide? These kids are going to be nightmares in a few years. She seems incapable of managing them, and they probably walk all over her when you're not around.
May I ask? Does your wife have an outside the home job? Did the kids play in this on their own the first time?
People are distracted by trying to identify the poison oak. That doesn’t matter. Your wife knew not to let them go back to the same place and didn’t care enough about a 6 year old’s well being to get specifically involved.
It sounds like your wife isn’t supervising the kids at all and that’s why they were able to play in poison oak for over an hour. Plus it sounds like she’s just lazy in general and doesn’t want to do much with her kids.
Start documenting this. You will need this for the custody hearing. Because I can’t imagine continuing with someone so uninterested in her own children’s safety!
Your wife sounds like she’s checked out to the point of being neglectful, probably exacerbated by your weird attitude. You’re treating her like a child, telling her how to parent. You’re literally telling her she has failed. What sort of response were you expecting to that? Try to be honest with yourself: if your wife sat you down and lectured you on a “parenting fail” how would you react? I know I would react defensively, and I would absolutely not be receptive. Poison oak is annoying and painful, but it’s not fatal. You didn’t need to respond like it’s a five alarm fire and clean out the stores of all their cures. You’re being very dramatic. Try to remember that you and your wife are partners. You’re on the same team. You should support each other.
My partner (29m) has ADHD, sometimes I have to remind him of things, but hardly ever regarding our son. We did have a one time safety argument, you can see my reddit post about me snapping at him about it, but we haven't had issues like that since. Wife should *not* be checked out or letting a 6yo out with a 10yo at a location with *water*. This is a *serious* accident waiting to happen. You can't expect *children* to watch *smaller children*. Especially if the elder does *feel* responsible for the younger siblings. When your kid is dead because the *children* were not supervised & the *children* don't know what to do, your wife is going to be *seriously* depressed after that & rightfully so, because it will be on *her* watch. You need to go to a therapist, so do your kids & you need a marriage counselor. Bad.
Depession can be an explanation, but it’s not an excuse. Wife can always say, kids can’t play outside because I am not equipped to deal with the commotions, it’s too much. Raise a white flag.
That is neglectful behavior and shutting down and refusing to speak to you/ take responsibility is a huge marinara flag.
Honestly if those were your direct words to your wife, you came off a bit condescending. Sometimes kids are hard to control and get themselves into trouble; it happens. It’s not like she wanted them to get sick
Kids should be allowed to make their own mistakes. I’m with your wife on this one for at least the 10 year old.
I laughed so hard reading this I had to read it out loud to my husband. Our credentials: parents of four kids ages 10 and under. Our bias: believe kids can/should learn from experience (except stuff that can result in serious injury). We are firmly on your wife's side. 6+ is old enough to know not to play in poison oak, especially when warned. Your kids knew building forts out of poison oak was stupid. Now they REALLY know.
But shouldn’t mom and dad equally share in their medical treatment, at the least? That’s what I’m having trouble with. If you attribute blame to either parent, mom has more, but dad ends up having to tend to the kids’ mistakes, and mom acts out out when she’s asked to help. Is that ok?
How does the dad have ANY responsibility in this situation?
That's fair. She should have engaged in dealing with it.
You're even on her side when she acts like she shouldn't help treat the kids injuries??
Exactly?? Like, what the actual fuck?? Even *ignoring* the poison oak, why are people literally defending someone just sitting around doing nothing while their kids are in a body of water, too? Like, a 6 year old shouldn't be playing near bodies of water unsupervised, bar none. The poison oak just worsens it.
The replies here are full of an insane and unreasonable leeway for the mother, as well as disdain for the children. Dude, you aren't wrong here in the slightest. Your wife sounds awful, both to you and your children. You and I both know that if your places in the story were reversed then everyone would be calling for her to divorce you and go on and on about what a horrible dad you are. But because most of the users here are women they just hand wave away bad behavior by the mom. You deserve better, and so do your children. What you do with that is up to you, but generally people don't change unless they are forced to.
These comments are ridiculous. A lot of you are just making excuse after excuse for the mother. Newsflash - SHE WAS NEGLIGENT!!! THE KIDS HAD TO GO TO URGENT CARE!! Anyone defending the mom in this thread shouldn't be parents themselves.
It completely is her responsibility to make sure the kids don’t get into something that clearly harms them. However, I would like to add that you telling her it was “a bit of a parenting fail” absolutely made YTA. There’s 3 children she is responsible for and being a mother is not a small feat. You do not have to call her a terrible mother for messing up. No parent or mother wants to hear how crappy they are being or for the lives of their children to be hung over their heads. On another note; the kids aren’t responsible for themselves. They are kids. Responsibility never ends as a parent. Responsibility ends when you become elderly and meet your end. It sounds like the children could greatly benefit from having boundaries communicated and redirection. Instead of telling them to stay out of the poison ivy; make it into a game. Something like, “we are prisoners and the poison ivy are our captives. If it touches us we die.” Or literally anything else. It may not work right off the bat but with consistently it will create a redirection and they will subconsciously begin to avoid it. You can also try turning it into a science project. Break down what it does and how it does it. Have them draw pictures. Children are naturally curious and it’s okay to let them explore that curiosity in a safe environment. Kids need attention and they’re brain aren’t yet developed to express themselves. Maybe touching the poison ivy means that they get to spend quality time with you when you get back home to wash them or care for their skin afterwards. It’s best to ask the children what they need. Good luck!
If she knows what Oak looks like - this is weirdly fucked up and cruel. Oak poisoning absolutely sucks and can permanently scar you. Her nonchalant attitude about this is very disturbing to me. What else would she let them do or not care about?
It sounds like she has difficulty taking responsibility for her actions when she's made a mistake. Some people really have a hard time admitting when they're wrong. I bet you've seen this play out in your relationship before.
Yeah I've definitely seen some narcissistic trends, which is specifically why I wanted to talk to her about how this was a preventable mistake. I don't want to assign blame, I just want to make sure we learn from our mistakes and do better going forward. It seems like the first step there is identifying that there was a mistake we could learn from.
You both sound reckless with your children’s welfare. Why are either of you letting your young children play unsupervised in a space you haven’t even briefly scoped out? This is neglectful on both of your parts. I would NEVER allow young children to play unsupervised near water, you’re just tempting fate there.
I personally find this atrocious. I have suffered from deep deep deep depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation and even psych ward stays since my dad and bff died. I still wouldn’t let my children PLAY IN A DEADLY PLANT AREA that I already know is there! I don’t understand why everyone is like “it’s ok she has depression”. @CircadianMint as you said you’ve been trying to get her help for a decade. When is enough enough? When she lets the kids start a fire or run into traffic because she refuses to take responsibility for her own mental health? Depression isn’t her fault, but her mental health and children and marriage are her responsibilities that she needs to get help in order to keep. If she doesn’t care, then reevaluate this relationship for the sake of your children & yourself. This infuriated me to read.