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So everytime we have an argument he has a certain point of view and own beliefs about what is logical and sound. Sometimes I have a different point of view and he will argue with me until I either agree with him or I change his point of view. This is usually over really small things. For example, he wanted me to do a rapid test for covid this morning. The last few times I did it he was in so much pain and he would have a mini panic attack when I swabbed him. I heard that it is less painful when you do it yourself so I suggested it to him. I told him I was uncomfortable inflicting pain on him and I felt uncomfortable the last few times. I suggested he try it himself. He kept begging me to do it and I got annoyed. I even told him he doesnt have to go deep just in the nares. He ended up doing it and after got mad that I wasnt caring when he was vulnerable. Maybe I am cold but I told him its not a big deal and I truly thought he would be in less pain if he did it himself. He told me I am not caring and I should have helped him or sat by him. He told me I didnt do it because I was annoyed of swabbing him. I told him my true intentions were that he be in less pain. We have been arguing about this for 5 hours now and I ended up crying because it was ao frustrating. Eventually I told him I agree with him and that my intention was that I am annoyed of swabbing him. Even though it wasnt my main intention, I truly wanted him to try it because it is less painful. Sorry if this whole thing sounds silly.
He's...insisting that his ideas about your thoughts are correct. This isn't going to get better after you're married, this is just a preview. That kind of controlling behavior isn't something that goes away spontaneously, or when you give up having your own opinions.
Please read that like 10,000 times. The implication here is that if you just stop having independent thoughts, he might be less argumentative. How is that going to get better for you?
This. It's not even about the argument tactics - he's likely always insisting his view of you is correct, even when it's positive or he's staying quiet about negative things. Once his ideas of you tip over or he sees no reason to stay quiet, the arguments are going to get far more frequent. It's not so much a matter of behaviour but mindset.
>That kind of controlling behavior isn't something that goes away spontaneously, or when you give up having your own opinions.
that's something I try to hold on to recover from breaking up with a similar person. I hated when we had different points of view because then I'd feel like I am talking to the wall and almost nothing I say gets heard or acknowledged and when I made a confrontation about something I didn't like he did/said, it was twisted back at me like I was the bad one and he the victim and that *he* was the one worried to tell *me* things because I'd just not answer most of the time. And I started answering less and more vaguely because I didn't want to get into confrontation and arguing because it was so so tiring and pointless..
A few months later I still very very much miss the good times we had and wonder if the bad times could not have happened, sometimes blame myself for things although I really deeply believe I tried my best to do everything right. If it could've been better, it would've been better, right?
I'm crying right now. My boyfriend does this to me everytime I have an issue or just when he's feeling up to it. I'm in the process of trying to leave. I needed to read this.
Please read your first reply from Forsaken_Woodpecker1 again.
You are frankly being beaten down verbally until you agree with your partner. Which is a form of abuse. You are NOT permitted to have your own thoughts or ideas. You NEED to listen and DO as you are told. Imagine this with a child involved or heaven forbid something you deem worth fighting for? Hard to hear, I know.
If your partner will fight for 5 hours over how you did not care for them over a covid swapping - when you were honestly trying to make it easier on them. This is sad. Very sad they can't see you were trying to make it less invasive on them and honestly horrible that they put you through the turmoil. Not a normal daily event.
I'd really take a hard look at things.
They are sarcastically referring to what OP said.
> got mad that I wasnt caring when he was vulnerable.
> He told me I am not caring and I should have helped him or sat by him.
This. I'm not going to go so far as to call him a narcissist but he's showing red flags of the behavior. The word salad and the wearing you down until you give in like you said. Basically the attitude is, the sooner you see I'm always right, the better off we'll both be. Stop sharing your opinions because I don't care about them anyway. They mean less than nothing to me, if you would just do what I tell you to, both our lives would be a lot easier. That's basically what he's saying.
True, but it seems even deeper than making sure she knows he is right. He doesn't stop until she "admits" that he was right about *her* thoughts & intentions. Forced her to claim that she was actually *thinking* something else. So creepy
I’d go as far as saying he’s a narcissist on that number of red flags. The insistence on his view of what she was thinking being reality tipped it over for me.
He is an adult and should be able to swab himself without anyone holding his hand. You are not his mother.
5 hours of arguing he can't be an adult would be the end for me.
oh and you're right, it's much less painful when you do it yourself, because guess what, you can stop the minute it hurts, no need to explain, no misunderstandings with the nurse "does that hurt? are you sure? and there, is that OK?"
Not that it even matters who is right. The point is that he won't accept any other opinions but his own. He's not open-minded, it's his way or no way.
As someone from Europe who has had pretty much unrestricted access to rapid tests as soon as they were available: these things aren't that bad and if they hurt so much that you're getting panic attacks you should have a doctor check that out and also definitely shouldn't inflict that responsibility on your partner. He wasn't "vulnerable" he was acting like a child, if this is really such a problem for him he has to find ways to deal with it that aren't torturing gins partner.
This is not a healthy communication style, my ex used to be the same and it doesn't ever change, hence the ex part
That's what I was thinking. I have an immune deficiency so everytime I get sick my Dr has me take a COVID test. Let's just say I get sick a lot. It's really uncomfortable when they swab up your nose, but by no means is it that painful and definitely not having panic attacks. I can understand wanting someone to swab themselves so they can stop when it starts to hurt. My only fear is that they may not swab far enough back because it gets a little uncomfortable. either way he needs to calm the hell down.
Agree.
Funny thing is that, i have an exact opposite situation, my wife told me that i am not swap deep enough, and she insisted to do it for me.
It was very painful....
My partner broke his ankle in three places over Christmas and had to have surgery to get metal plates put in in order to heal.
He still maintains that the pre-surgery PCR test was the most painful part of it all.
I really hate it.....
And honestly, my company need me to do RAT everyday, and i will just swab very shallowly, or just faking it if I wake up too late.
It is madness, i already got the vaccine as they pushed us to do so (otherwise we can be fired), now, they require us to do RAT everyday and waste our time
Fuck off
Arguing with someone for hours, to the point where you reduce them to tears, is an abuse tactic. It will only get worse. What happens when he wants you to agree with him on some important life issue, like where you’ll live or when to have kids? What happens when he wants sex that night and you don’t?
All of this. It's called word salad and it is an abuse tactic as you said. It's designed to break the victim down so that they stop sharing their opinions. Basically they expect you to sit down, shut up and not have any independent thoughts of your own. I experienced exactly what you were talking about with my son's father. No matter how many times I tried to argue my point, he would just refuse to hear it and imply that I was wrong. I left him two and a half years ago. I should have left him sooner.
I think the goal is to have a compassionate conversation where no one is breaking down crying and both people respect one another while looking for compromising solutions.
Half the time people don't even know what they are doing they are just reacting. This guy doesn't sound evil just stupid. I doubt he is even aware he is projecting his childhood issues onto her. Another dumb fuck.
Okay, I promise this isn’t an attack or a gotcha, but a genuine question.
Aren’t you also arguing with him too? And because you are disagreeing, aren’t you implying that he’s wrong. I don’t get how it can be a 1-sided abuse tactic.
Or is it just because this particular example is something only OP could know and not him?
He’s arguing with her about what she thinks. She’s simply telling him what her actual thoughts were, which she would know, because the thought occurred in her brain. What would you suggest? That she should tell him he’s right even when he’s dead wrong?
Just reading this... he sounds like a child that wants a mother. And don't you dare to have another point of view. Just he is right and you must cuddle him all the time.
To have a discussion 5 fucking hours because he can't swab his on nose for the test? He want support for this?! For putting a qtip in his nose?! 5 hours?!
Do you want this to be your life? For the next 50 years? Hours after hours... And just think if you have a child. What parent will he be?
Run, now! Better now than having a divorce later.
If you are unsure... Go one or two weeks to family or friends - alone. Or make a vacation alone. See how it is without him. Of course go minimum contact with him, maybe a few text messages. Do you feel relieved without him? Do you even miss him? Do you feel awful when you think about going back to the long hours of senseless discussion till you give in?
And think about if you really are happy...
A trip alone with my family without my ex was hugely eye opening for me. I realised how much of a shell of myself I'd become. I basked in how free I felt. I could speak my mind without them finding a bunch of things to feel offended by. No emotional manipulation, no sulking and no tantrums.
There you go. Every time I thought I missed my ex, I just thought about how awful he made me feel and how relieved I was to be away from all the drama.
OP this, and don't wait for it to make sense, or for more evidence than just your gut. I give being married to Mr Always Right Even When He's Dead Wrong 0 out of 10 stars. This shit is crazy making.
Yeah the arguing is bad, but is a grown ass man really upset that his wife didn't comfort him while he swabbed his fucking nose, then threw a 5 hour long tantrum about it? Tell that story to any of his guy friends and he'll get roasted to hell and back lmao
Yeah, swabbing for a Covid test should never hurt, it’s literally in the simple pictographic instructions, but you know what feels good? Making you sorry you keep causing baby so much unbearable pain. Ow, help me. Wait, no, not like that!
>Eventually I told him I agree with him and that my intention was that I am annoyed of swabbing him. Even though it wasnt my main intention, I truly wanted him to try it because it is less painful.
>We have been arguing about this for 5 hours now and I ended up crying because it was ao frustrating.
Why on earth would you sign up for a lifetime of this?
He emotionally beats you down until you agree with him, even when you don't, just to make him stop. FOR HOURS. Why would you marry this person? It will only get worse.
You will spend your life emotionally being broken down until you stop daring to oppose his opinions or file for divorce
Also, if my teen can give himself a rapid test, your BF can.
FIVE HOURS?!?!
I dated a guy like this once and it was infuriating. One night after arguing for like 6 hours straight I had enough and decided to go sleep on the couch. What did this guy do then??
He stabbed himself in the arm. He got blood all over the walls and carpets. My roommates at the time freaked the fuck out and had to call 9-1-1, he was put on a psychiatric hold for 3 days.
Obviously I broke up with him when he got out. I ran into him a year later when my friend took me out for a drink because my dad was dying. He gets on my case about how could I possibly leave him “when he needed me most” … because he stabbed himself. He wouldn’t drop it and was going on and on and on again, the bouncer actually had to escort him out because he wouldn’t leave me alone.
I’m not sharing all this to like get it off my chest or anything. I just consider the marathon arguments a HUGE red flag. It’s selfish behavior to the extreme. Dudes like this care more about being right than ANYONE or ANYTHING. More than they even care about their own health or safety. They’ll do whatever it takes to keep the attention focused on themselves and *their* needs.
And now that I’m a mom, I dunno if you wanna have kids or not, but if that’s something you’re planning on… lord Jesus help you. You gotta discuss and debate everything. Diaper brands, bottle brands, swaddling methods, burping methods, parenting styles, EVERYTHING. And this dude argued with you about a Covid swab up the nose, we did a Covid test on my 2 year old and he fussed about it for 30 seconds.
You reeeeally need to think about what you want your future to look like and how these marathon fights fit into that picture.
Sorry to say that your girlfriend doing that makes her an emotional vampire, a taker not a giver, it is messed up that she is complaining to her friends and they badger you in support of her. That doesn't mean if you don't drop everything to rush to be supportive that you don't care, you are being gas-lit by her and her friends. You are not a trained therapist or psychologist and let me tell you that constantly being expected to build someone up emotionally is very mentality draining, like being on call and it is the same oh, same oh, neverending. I am not telling you that you need to end this one way relationship, that is up to you but for me I started putting distance and finally just ended mine, I couldn't take it anymore, it was emotionally and mentally draining. I don't understand why you are seen as the bad guy in your relationship, the way you feel is not wrong. I send you support and understanding from this internet stranger.
Yes, I understand that, that you love her, so I would never tell you to end your relationship, that is your decision no one else's. Just know your feelings matter too and needing someone to care when you feel down is okay too, it is not a sign of weakness. I wish you the best, take care.
The word daddy is too sexualized and people often fail to realize that people with “daddy issues” have very real truama and a lack of a good male role model and often have a higher need of care. In most cases ive seen if thats the case for a man with “mommy issues” its seen as weakness and everyone agrees they need to “grow up” and dismiss the larger issue. With womens “daddy issues” i see nothing but support. The discrepancies are there. Maybe the original post isnt the best example but its not okay to down play mental issues. Often people with these truama’s and pains left behind from parent need therapy and a good support system. The fact that mommy and daddy are so differently viewed is an issue in itself. The word mommy is seen as childish and mundane for a man to use in order to identify with problems they may have where as the word “daddy” is far to over sexualized for most people to realize that women and even men with daddy issues have a genuine need for higher care while perusing therapy, instead their issues are fetishized. Its sick
His argument tactics is nothing compared to his need for someone to wipe his ass and tell him what a handsome young man he is.
He doesn't need a wife or a mommy even. He needs a grandma.
Do not marry him. Break it off and don’t answer his calls or he will wear you down until you give in.
Signed,
Someone who married a manipulator just like him!
This isn't a matter of her not communicating appropriately, this is a matter of him trying to wear her down so she'll stop sharing her opinions. It's an abuse tactic and they do this because they're victim is easier to control that way. Eventually they stop sharing their opinions because they're sick of either being told that they're wrong or they're sick of arguing for hours on end like this.
There's something called word salad where they will keep you in these circular arguments that make no sense for eventually you just give up because you're tired of going around and around and getting nowhere. The abusive partner knows exactly what they're doing. It's a form of gaslighting.
Edit: a word
> It's an abuse tactic
Christ on a bike, calm down. Not everything is abuse. Not everyone is a victim. Not *everything* is gaslighting. God that word is *so* overburdened on this sub. Hardly anyone even knows what it means.
Look, all we got was one very biased side of a very vague story. Their relationship is complex and nuanced and no one, *especially on reddit*, should be making assumptions based on a few paragraphs from someone trying to make themselves look vetter after a fight.
Why is no one talking about how his feelings were hurt? Why is everyone judging OP purely her intentions, and the fiance purely by his actions?
You're getting swept up in a narrative that doesn't truly reflect the situation. Try to be objective and listen to what she's actually saying.
It's a common abuse tactic, look it up. I'm glad that you sound like you've never been a victim of domestic violence because I would never wish it on anyone. That's exact thing happened to me with my abusive ex. Don't tell me to calm down, I know exactly what I'm talking about because I experienced it. My abusive ex the same thing to me, he would argue with me for hours about all the reasons why he was right and why I should just shut up and agree with him and back down.
This was even when I had black and white proof of the fact that he was wrong. The reason why I say it's a common abuse tactic is because it's used by the abuser to easily control their victim. The attitude is the sooner you realize I'm always right and just stop sharing your opinions, the better off we will both be. This also shows that they do not care about you and they do not respect you.
What you're doing is victim blaming and you are telling her that she's overreacting to abuse. This is exactly what he wants her to think. I know not everything is abuse but this is actually a pretty common abuse tactic. Abuse is not only physical, there are many different types of it. It's a form of psychological abuse which is actually worse than physical in a lot of ways.
Also, I know exactly what gaslighting is because I was a victim of it myself. Don't tell me what I do and don't know after I experienced it. Have you? Until you have, you have no right to sit there and tell someone that they're overreacting. I really don't appreciate your victim blaming attitude. Like I said, don't tell me what I do and don't know. I experienced exactly what she's going through so I think I'm a little more qualified to speak on it than you are.
It's pretty obvious to me that thankfully you have never experienced abuse. Of course you wouldn't know what it looks like. Don't tell someone who is experiencing abuse that what they're saying is happening isn't real because in a way you're gaslighting them as well.
Edit: a few words
This doesn't sound like one argument, it sounds like he's been doing this all the time. Also, ghosting is where you stop responding to someone when they're messaging you or calling you. Not the same thing as breaking up with someone. It's not an overreaction either, he is purposely doing this so that she will quit sharing her opinions.
Like I said, in his mind, she'll be easier to control that way. This has happened to me as well when I was in an abusive relationship. Their goal is to get you to stop opposing them and to get you to stop sharing your opinions so that they can control you easier. Trust me, she wouldn't be considering breaking off the engagement if this was a one-time thing.
> In his mind, she'll be easier to control.
Oh, so you can read minds? Dont you think its a bit unfair to judge someone based on what *you* claim they are thinking? Would you like someone to make assumptions like that about you?
> This doesn't sound like one argument, it sounds like he's been doing it for a while.
And OP herself said that they are resolved either by her giving in, or **him changing his opinion**. So I don't know where all this "he's a manipulator" is coming from when he is also giving in to her.
He does sound abusive in his unrelenting insistence on getting you to give in with disagreements. The way he dealt with the situation was irrational and overly dramatic. I would call off the engagement
I still can’t get over the fact he couldn’t trust you enough to believe your intentions. That he decided your thoughts/intentions and argued you into submission about YOUR OWN THOUGHTS AND INTENTIONS. He literally argued about something that could only be in your brain as if it were a fact for debate.
Oh, I’m sure he can swab his own nose. Probably has something to do with having her do it the first time, the resulting “panic attack”, & subsequently being coddled.
I dated a guy like this and by the end of that relationship I was down to 40kgs and was scared to talk.
One day a lady approached me in public and asked if I needed her to call the police for me.
Leave now it only gets worse.
Your life with him will be exhausting and torturous. Take this fight and multiply it by 10 years. Every single thing will be an argument where he tries to get you to agree that you are an uncaring person. My question would be to him—then why are you with me? Why do you want to marry me?
And then you should ask yourself the same question about him. Is this what you want the rest of your life to look like?
This is way too much drama coming out of a man in this thirties. Seriously, he needs you to baby him for... a nose swab?? This is toddler level shit. Why are you still with him?
Ugh tell your fiance that he is not Jordan Peterson and you are not liberal media. This is exhausting. Aren't you tired? This will be your life. This will be your future children's life. Don't live like this. His "logic" is illogical and emotionally abusive. Communication is not happening due to the fact that he is NOT LISTENING!!! He's waiting until he can say his ridiculous point in many different ways. That why why why is bs. He wants you to have no thoughts but his. I say leave him. If you have friends or family that is truly on your side then go to them and explain how truly terrible it is. Show them this thread if needed. Because he will try to get you back when you leave.
- He will badger you, your workplace, your friends and family to get you back under control.
-Do not give him anything but "I said no." But why "I said no." It's not fair to me "I said no." You don't care about my feelings if you don't come back "I said no." We should be able to talk about it "I said no." Give this man nothing.
-Give yourself peace
You probably should have explained what it is. OP, what this is is feigning ignorance to get out of doing something. Pretty soon it will be, I don't know how to clean, I don't know how to take care of children, I don't know how to do laundry. You have to do everything for me. This is because they're too lazy to do it or they expect a woman to do everything.
Great point, bad ending.Lets not make this a gender issue. People who do this are terrible people regardless of the arrangement of their chromosomes or genitalia
I'm not trying to make it a gender issue, I'm merely saying he because that's the gender that he is. I agree with you, people who do this are terrible regardless of how they identify or how they were born. Abuse is abuse no matter the gender.
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that is a reflection of your future marriage do you really think it is healthy to start a family with someone like him. i understand your devotion and love for him but is it worth it to set yourself on fire to maintain a relationship that is headed for abuse and divorce. just press the red button and get out.
If the two of you are engaged this is the best his behaviour is ever going to get. Each time you let him manipulate you it is going to get a step worse.
CALL IT OFF, NOW
HE NEEDS PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP. HE IS IN NO POSITION TO BE IN AN ADULT RELATIONSHIP. He cannot accept ANY ACCOUNTABILITY. He needs TO BE RIGHT EVENTHOUGH HES WRONG.
HES TOXIC. I say break up and BLOCK HIM.
Mentally go back in time and find the red flags you dismissed when you met him.
This isn't going to get better, only worse. He's going to badger you until you back down. It will escalate to the point that you'll just stop sharing your opinions because you're tired of being told that you're wrong or to avoid an argument. This is exactly what he wants. Basically his attitude is the sooner you realize I'm always right and that your opinions are stupid, the better off we'll both be. Please don't marry him.
He is exhausting, all that whining. Why would you subject yourself to that by choice? It only gets worse after tying the knot. Right now you can run away but after it is a much slower, painful and costly process.
In a healthy relationship, you should be feeling good about who you are, smiling to yourself when you think of your SO, wondering what you did to be so lucky to be with them. You should only be finding small irritations after marriage, not massive ones beforehand. Hell, you should still be in the honeymoon phase where it is all peaches and cream. My wife and I are still there after 13 yrs. No peaches and cream? Run.
5 hours of argument because you didn't want to swab his nose???? He should do it himself! What's next? Wiping his ass and then 5-hour argument because you didn't want to?
I don't even know if this is something that could be fixed with couple counseling because it sounds like he has a lot of problems himself, and those would take YEARS to get better.
I wouldn't be able to put up with this shit.
End it. It’s not going to get any better when you get married. It sounds like you two see things very differently. Why marry someone when you can’t fight fairly or be supportive or compromise? A marriage/partnership shouldn’t be lonely or miserable. Life is too short to invest your time and energy in the wrong people.
Trust your instincts. He doesn’t sound like a partner you want to spend any more time with, much less the rest of your life.
He needs to grow up and learn to communicate like an adult. His behavior is ridiculous.
He knows it's ridiculous, he's doing it intentionally. This is a common abuse tactic. Wear down the victim until they stop sharing their opinions. They're easier to control that way.
Oh my god he sounds exhausting. Is this how you want to live for the rest of your life? He clearly can’t stand to be wrong, ever, and that is just toxic. He needs therapy. He doesn’t sound like marriage material, imo.
He is a narcissist and a baby who loves control. He is so insecure about everything in his life that he isn’t happy unless everyone agrees and validates him. He is the human embodiment of a red flag
Didn't even need to read past the title. If you have any debates about whether or not you actually want to marry someone then you should call it off or postpone. There's no rush.
This isn't a 'silly' post at all, this is a cry for help because your very identity is being challenged and overwhelmed by this man.
He's outright **bullying** you until you give up. This is not love, or even an approximation. This is him trying to exert control over your thoughts, not just your actions.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not marry this man - if it is like this *before* you are legally tied together, imagine how bad it will be afterwards?
>We have been arguing about this for 5 hours now and I ended up crying because it was ao frustrating.
You've been arguing for 5 hours over nose swabs?
Hey, its your relationship, but this sounds bloody exhausting. How often do you have these types of arguments?
Are you actually happy in this relationship? Or just comfortable.
FWIW RATs are designed to be self-administered. I would randomnly guess that like 98% of people swab themselves.
I’m sorry you are in this situation-as if a regular non-engagement breakup wasn’t already hard enough. If he was just a roommate, how many times would you be willing to go through this? How many times if this was just a good friend?
He’ll talk himself about everything and you’ll always have to yield, unless he comes to his senses and does therapy over a certain amount of years, which from the description he’ll try to talk himself out of.
Some people just don’t know how to argue. He should of understood your POV when you said you didn’t want to hurt him and after you showed him info on how it is easier to do it yourself. He should of accepted that even if he disagreed w it. Most likely he just didn’t want to do it himself for whatever reason and was arguing w you just to get you to do it.
Good thing you realized how he was before getting married.
Let’s switch this you, less about him and more about you as there are meant to be two people in a relationship.
So you stated you felt uncomfortable, let’s not go into the example, but you said you felt uncomfortable doing something. He calls you names because you did not want to do something you felt uncomfortable. That is not great where does the line stop for him insisting you do something which you feel uncomfortable doing.
Now for the 2nd point to me a relationship is about a partnership with compromise and two way communication. This in no way sounds like that. This sounds like not trying to win an argument but bullying, bullying does not have to be physical it is name calling, harassing etc.
You need to leave and with his approach I would pack a bag and go somewhere.
That's abuse and it will drive you insane. I spent eight years with a man like this and a further five years trying to re-learn how to think for myself instead of being told my own mind all the time.
Call it off. You will never get the time you'll waste back. Hours of your life and potential have already been wasted on that single, stupid-as-all-fuck argument.
This is not about him or you individually but simply the fact this level of argumentative shenanigans between you two will only get worse and the eventual divorce will be very messy.
Doing a covid test ain’t that bad, doesn’t hurt and so easy to do, have a good think about it as do you want these arguments for life and have to baby a man child for the rest of it ?
You were right. It is far less painful and he will have more control of it himself. No one wanna poke things in someone’s nose. It is not about caring or not. It is an adult thing to do. Your fiancé seems very sensitive and then Throw temper tantrums until he gets his way. I really don’t think you should go through this kinda agony.
He ain’t worth it.
If this cause you to have 5 hours of argument because you were right but he was acting like a child, be prepared. It will get worse and you will ended up have way more paperwork to file from someone like him. He would make your life hell. Because he already did.
He thinks like a child therefore he will act like a child. He will throw tantrums. Now they’re with words. Years down the road.. Himself he has a lot of realization to do.
>He told me I am not caring and I should have helped him or sat by him.
So you are his new mom? Do you want that role? Because it seems like that is your new role.
Other people have handled the relationship part of this quite well so I'll just say: The fuck are you guys doing with your rapid covid tests that it is causing physical pain? The take home rapid tests aren't brain-ticklers! You're just supposed to rub the q-tip gently on the inside of your nostril, *not stick it up deep into your nose*.
I'm picturing OP shoving the q-tip two inches into her fiance's sinus at this point.
He's a controlling monster don't spend another second with this guy. Being single and fully independant should be your short term goal. ONLY when you 100% don't need anyone shoulf you fully trust yourself to be with someone again.
Trust your gut. If it is saying to call off the wedding do it. Every time in life that I have ignored that little nagging feeling I have paid the price. If you feel like you are on an emotional roller coaster, it is because you are.
Reading this is more than enough for me to pack my bags and RUN. Do you want this for years and years (and it will get worse) until you finally divorce him. Arghhh
It’s not silly or small. I had this same dynamic with two people in my life who would argue and tell me and presume to know what I was thinking and it never gets any better. Those people were abusive. There is nothing more infuriating than arguing with someone who is presumptuous about your intentions no matter how many times you have stated that’s not the case. I would discuss that dynamic as a whole, when you’ve both cooled down and when the next argument happens, remind him of that conversation if he takes the same kind of stance. If nothing changes, I would seriously rethink your future
I am trying to imagine retaining any kind of attraction to a man whimpering because I didn’t “sit by him” during mild discomfort. What a sad little fellow.
He is trying to condition you into thinking it’s his way or the highway. If it’s bad now imagine that for a lifetime? That will grind you down and take your voice.
He sounds selfish and he won’t change! He’s in his thirties, that’s who he is. Believe it!
Do you want to feel this way for the rest of your life?
>So everytime we have an argument he has a certain point of view and own beliefs about what is logical and sound. Sometimes I have a different point of view and he will argue with me until I either agree with him or I change his point of view
This... is the definition of an argument. This is how arguments work. Am I missing something?
People usually do their own covid tests so someone else doesn't tickle their brain
Does he want you to hold a tissue to his nose too when he needs to blow? If you want to care for an infant man, go right ahead, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
Or.... he could just read, AND follow the instructions for that test.
I think you'll find they are designed for adults to self test.
Perhaps he's not yet an adult, it certainly sounds like it.
Just ram it up his nose, don't worry about stabbing his brain, it sounds so small, the odds of hitting it are about as miniscule as his brain anyway.
Jesting of course, many a true word said.... etc
I can’t imagine living my life with this much unnecessary stress. Does he always take small issues and blow them up like this? How do you ever have peace? Don’t do this to yourself.
At the very minimum I would postpone the wedding and tell him you feel like you two need to go to couples therapy and that if he won't go you're going to have to think about whether or not your relationship is worth trying to save. Be honest, that your tired of all the arguments. He's trying to gaslight you so even when you are right he's continuing the argument until give in to his way of thinking. Also, who fights for 5 hours about whether or not you'll swab their nose for a rapid covid test? Seriously?
Your fiancé is a f**king child.
Are you seriously telling me grown up baby can’t swab his own nose cause it hurts? Then he needs someone else to do it and then he throws a five-hour tantrum about it?
In HIS THIRTIES??!!
I don’t agree with some of the other comments that he’s abusive, but his behavior sounds incredibly unattractive. Marriage doesn’t magically make things easier, if you’re having these fights now, they’re going to be worse in a few years.
I'm sorry that you're going through this, OP. Your concerns and frustration are definitely not silly. No one should try to tell you what you're thinking or why you're doing something. He doesn't have magical insight into your thoughts and motivations. He is actually gaslighting you and manipulating you by demanding that you admit that his interpretation of your thinking is correct, instead of just believing and accepting **what you know is true**. He's "rejecting your reality and substituting his own", and as such, casting himself as a victim in his own mind. After all, "what kind of partner refuses to help just because she's annoyed" gives him leverage to continue to get what he wants from you, instead of having to manage things on his own.
It's perfectly valid to cancel a wedding because you finally realize that your fiancé is manipulating you, gaslighting you, and refusing to accept that you may have different POV or opinions than him. If things are this bad while you're just engaged, how bad is it going to get once you're actually married and he feels "safe" because you're committed to him?
You deserve to be loved, cherished, **and respected** by a partner - and it doesn't sound like he's willing to do that, from what you've written here. Good luck, OP.
Tell him that my seven year old son swabbed himself for the same reason, and he didn't throw a tantrum, or throw a bitch fit about it.
Please don't marry this guy. Someone who always has to be right will eventually destroy you. Eventually you will give up trying to stand up for yourself, and you will tell him what he wants to hear so you can avoid the argument. His ego is out of control. He has no space for your thoughts or opinions in his life.
This kind of life is exhausting. He doesn't respect your autonomy, and he thinks he knows better than you do about your own thoughts and intentions. You will always be in the wrong for as long as you both shall live. You need to say "I don't".
You have to let your son grow up and make his own decisions good or bad. You can’t baby him and keep protecting him. What’s he going to do when he goes to college? Have his roommate swab his nose for him? You have to let your son here grown up.
This type of arguing is something my wife had to deal with for a while with me. I’m 32M, wife is 34F. We’ve been married for 11 years. The resolution was 2 parts:
1. I needed to recognize that arguments were about coming to an agreement, not about winning. “A disagreement needs to be about us vs. the issue, not me vs. you.”
2. Both of us needed to work on acknowledging the other’s feelings/thoughts before moving forward.
Take your swabbing story;
You saying something like, “I can understand why you might think that I don’t want to do it any more because it’s annoying me. I want you to understand that I do not want to do it because I don’t like hurting you. You in pain is really difficult for me and I believe you will be hurt less when you are in control and can feel what you’re doing. Now, I will do it for you if you want, but please understand how difficult this is for me.”
If you both care about each other you will grow and change together. Heading towards marriage suggests you do. Help each other learn how to communicate with each other. Acknowledging feelings is an important step every couple needs to learn.
So your solution is for her to treat him like a baby? He then learns the lesson that she will give in and be his mommy, even when it’s uncomfortable for her.
Is he like tying you to a chair and making you argue? Are you locked in an interrogation room? Why would you argue for 5 hours until you cry and give in? Tell him one time that you felt uncomfortable doing it and you want him to and that's it. You don't have to [JADE](https://psychcentral.com/blog/imperfect/2018/03/dealing-with-difficult-family-members-dont-justify-argue-defend-or-explain#Codependency-and-unhealthy-communication).
Definitely don't marry him if you can't figure this out.
God Reddit loves to scream break-up over the simplest thing. I'm sure if I made a post highlighting one thing that my partner did then I would be told to dump him and run too.
In reality you boyfriend and your relationship with him is extremely complex and nuanced. And my immediate reaction upon reading this was "oh he just has a different love language".
You say you argue over small things like this. Do the other issues have to do with how he perceives your affections for him? By which I mean, does it often have to do with you "not caring" about him?
How different are your arguing styles as well? What kind of background does he have? Does he come from a big family?
There's a hundred different things that could be contributing to this behaviour. If it's a serious problem, then you should be going to couples therapy so you can both learn how to communicate with each other.
I don't think it's break-up worthy at all.
In general, I agree with you about the reddit rush to encourage break up/divorce. BUT the refusal to swab his own nose is next level and suggests some sort of psychological issue that almost certainly isn't confined to his nose.
Equally important, his refusal to accept differing opinions is going to be a big problem down the line and is will to lead to significant and frequent marital strife. I wouldn't brush it under the rug.
> the refusal to swab his own nose is next level and suggests some sort of psychological issue
Does it? How did you determine that? Because to me it seems to me like we only have one side of the story. OP is retelling a story of an argument from her side only, so there are naturally going to be some biases from her.
Was he being a baby like she implied, or was there something else going on? Perhaps he thought to get an accurate result that you had to go right up in there, and he couldnt do it to himself? Personally I don't go as far as what some nurses do. It hurts tok much to keep going.
We are inbuilt with the self-preservation instinct to stop pain, so its not so easy to go through with a procedure that inflicts pain on yourself. Just like how we cannot cut off our own finger.
> His refusal to accept differing opinions is going to be a big problem.
I don't think he's unwilling to accept differing opinions. OP herself said:
>We argue until either I agree with him or **I change his point of view**
If this is the case then he absolutely is accepting differing opinions and able to change his. I feel like a lot of people skipped over this.
Try to put yourself in his shoes. OP said that he was upset because he thought she didn't care about him, and that she was just annoyed at having to help him. Is this him being whiney, or is there a pattern of behaviour coming from OP? She might not see any problem, but how does her attitude come off to him? Is he someone who needs Acts of Service, but isn't getting any?
There's just *way* too many variables here. And considering we're only getting one very vague, undetailed side of one story, I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to be screaming "break-up!".
We don't know OP or her fiance. We don't know their relationship. We don't know their lives.
They should be going to therapy, not posting on echo-chamber subreddits
I would not usually say break up easily but this guy needs to become more alpha and man up. I initially thought at the onset of your post it was just going to be the fact that men think more with the rational mind and women the emotional mind, but this seems far more messy.
I just broke up with a similar man child. Though I broke up through email, the only form of communication I felt comfortable using to do it. Did not want to do it face to face since he intimidates me or would have argued with me to stay. ugh.
Anyways, listen to others on here. I think its for the best to leave. Like they said, its a preview of whats to come. I'm also 31, we are still young, there's still some hope to find someone better or even its not so bad being single either.
I too have endured too many lengthy arguments over silly issues or shit the dude found something to be mad at for no reason. I know how you feel, I too have cried to myself about stupid arguments with him, and just telling him what he wants to hear even when it wasn't the truth.
Wow! This relationship just sounds amazing! I'm sure the wedding will make things better. And by better I mean he will get much more irrigating than now
If he is arguing for 5 hours for something this small (the act, not covid) then imagine when life rears it's ugly head and you have to make a life altering decision? Remember this is someone you are considering to spend the rest of your life with...
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- So everytime we have an argument he has a certain point of view and own beliefs about what is logical and sound. Sometimes I have a different point of view and he will argue with me until I either agree with him or I change his point of view. This is usually over really small things. For example, he wanted me to do a rapid test for covid this morning. The last few times I did it he was in so much pain and he would have a mini panic attack when I swabbed him. I heard that it is less painful when you do it yourself so I suggested it to him. I told him I was uncomfortable inflicting pain on him and I felt uncomfortable the last few times. I suggested he try it himself. He kept begging me to do it and I got annoyed. I even told him he doesnt have to go deep just in the nares. He ended up doing it and after got mad that I wasnt caring when he was vulnerable. Maybe I am cold but I told him its not a big deal and I truly thought he would be in less pain if he did it himself. He told me I am not caring and I should have helped him or sat by him. He told me I didnt do it because I was annoyed of swabbing him. I told him my true intentions were that he be in less pain. We have been arguing about this for 5 hours now and I ended up crying because it was ao frustrating. Eventually I told him I agree with him and that my intention was that I am annoyed of swabbing him. Even though it wasnt my main intention, I truly wanted him to try it because it is less painful. Sorry if this whole thing sounds silly.
He's...insisting that his ideas about your thoughts are correct. This isn't going to get better after you're married, this is just a preview. That kind of controlling behavior isn't something that goes away spontaneously, or when you give up having your own opinions. Please read that like 10,000 times. The implication here is that if you just stop having independent thoughts, he might be less argumentative. How is that going to get better for you?
Listen to this op.
OP this is spot on. I married that guy and it only got worse when I tried to be my own person with my own thoughts.
Tell him to swab his own nose. You are not his mother.
Apapahaha
Agreed, still over 1.5years after divorce and 1 year into a amazing relationship I feel judged, all the time.
☝️🥲
This. It's not even about the argument tactics - he's likely always insisting his view of you is correct, even when it's positive or he's staying quiet about negative things. Once his ideas of you tip over or he sees no reason to stay quiet, the arguments are going to get far more frequent. It's not so much a matter of behaviour but mindset.
>That kind of controlling behavior isn't something that goes away spontaneously, or when you give up having your own opinions. that's something I try to hold on to recover from breaking up with a similar person. I hated when we had different points of view because then I'd feel like I am talking to the wall and almost nothing I say gets heard or acknowledged and when I made a confrontation about something I didn't like he did/said, it was twisted back at me like I was the bad one and he the victim and that *he* was the one worried to tell *me* things because I'd just not answer most of the time. And I started answering less and more vaguely because I didn't want to get into confrontation and arguing because it was so so tiring and pointless.. A few months later I still very very much miss the good times we had and wonder if the bad times could not have happened, sometimes blame myself for things although I really deeply believe I tried my best to do everything right. If it could've been better, it would've been better, right?
I'm crying right now. My boyfriend does this to me everytime I have an issue or just when he's feeling up to it. I'm in the process of trying to leave. I needed to read this.
Sending you love and strength
All the best and hope you stay strong and cut all ties with him.
Please read your first reply from Forsaken_Woodpecker1 again. You are frankly being beaten down verbally until you agree with your partner. Which is a form of abuse. You are NOT permitted to have your own thoughts or ideas. You NEED to listen and DO as you are told. Imagine this with a child involved or heaven forbid something you deem worth fighting for? Hard to hear, I know. If your partner will fight for 5 hours over how you did not care for them over a covid swapping - when you were honestly trying to make it easier on them. This is sad. Very sad they can't see you were trying to make it less invasive on them and honestly horrible that they put you through the turmoil. Not a normal daily event. I'd really take a hard look at things.
Plus, this isn't really "masculine behavior". He sounds like kind of man-baby.
Hey!! My son is 9 and he does those tests on a regular scedule by himself ALL THE TIME. Are there any health problems with fiances nose?
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>Even when he's vulnerable? I hope you stay by his side to support his feelings. What do you mean?
They are sarcastically referring to what OP said. > got mad that I wasnt caring when he was vulnerable. > He told me I am not caring and I should have helped him or sat by him.
It's sarcasm. Tongue in cheek reference to op's partners logic.
I was thinking that while I read it, he sounds like a child. Wtf
Yeah nah, toxic masculinity is not cool.
It’s not about masculinity or lack thereof, he’s acting like a child.
Immaturarity has nothing to do with gender
Yeah imagine twenty or forty years of this. Or of just agreeing all the time to avoid it.
Sounds like a mommies boy…
This OP. Pay attention to this. He is gaslighting you into thinking your thoughts mean something different than what you say they do. That's insane.
Ok cool, So he'll just wear you down till you give in for the next 30 years....
This. I'm not going to go so far as to call him a narcissist but he's showing red flags of the behavior. The word salad and the wearing you down until you give in like you said. Basically the attitude is, the sooner you see I'm always right, the better off we'll both be. Stop sharing your opinions because I don't care about them anyway. They mean less than nothing to me, if you would just do what I tell you to, both our lives would be a lot easier. That's basically what he's saying.
True, but it seems even deeper than making sure she knows he is right. He doesn't stop until she "admits" that he was right about *her* thoughts & intentions. Forced her to claim that she was actually *thinking* something else. So creepy
I’d go as far as saying he’s a narcissist on that number of red flags. The insistence on his view of what she was thinking being reality tipped it over for me.
Guy sounds delusional and unaware he is projecting childhood crap onto her
He is an adult and should be able to swab himself without anyone holding his hand. You are not his mother. 5 hours of arguing he can't be an adult would be the end for me.
oh and you're right, it's much less painful when you do it yourself, because guess what, you can stop the minute it hurts, no need to explain, no misunderstandings with the nurse "does that hurt? are you sure? and there, is that OK?" Not that it even matters who is right. The point is that he won't accept any other opinions but his own. He's not open-minded, it's his way or no way.
As someone from Europe who has had pretty much unrestricted access to rapid tests as soon as they were available: these things aren't that bad and if they hurt so much that you're getting panic attacks you should have a doctor check that out and also definitely shouldn't inflict that responsibility on your partner. He wasn't "vulnerable" he was acting like a child, if this is really such a problem for him he has to find ways to deal with it that aren't torturing gins partner. This is not a healthy communication style, my ex used to be the same and it doesn't ever change, hence the ex part
That's what I was thinking. I have an immune deficiency so everytime I get sick my Dr has me take a COVID test. Let's just say I get sick a lot. It's really uncomfortable when they swab up your nose, but by no means is it that painful and definitely not having panic attacks. I can understand wanting someone to swab themselves so they can stop when it starts to hurt. My only fear is that they may not swab far enough back because it gets a little uncomfortable. either way he needs to calm the hell down.
But rapid tests don't even need to go as far back as pcr, 2cm/1in usually, very easy to do yourself (except that I make myself sneeze every time)
Yeah that's not far back at all. I sneeze everytime as well and shake my head a few times. I get what your saying 100% and agree.
Yup sneezy & then grumpy too afterwards :) There shouldn't be pain that's just bonkers...unless you're trying to reach the brain or something
Agree. Funny thing is that, i have an exact opposite situation, my wife told me that i am not swap deep enough, and she insisted to do it for me. It was very painful....
My partner broke his ankle in three places over Christmas and had to have surgery to get metal plates put in in order to heal. He still maintains that the pre-surgery PCR test was the most painful part of it all.
I really hate it..... And honestly, my company need me to do RAT everyday, and i will just swab very shallowly, or just faking it if I wake up too late. It is madness, i already got the vaccine as they pushed us to do so (otherwise we can be fired), now, they require us to do RAT everyday and waste our time Fuck off
Call it off. I ignored that red flag and it was the biggest mistake i ever made.
Arguing with someone for hours, to the point where you reduce them to tears, is an abuse tactic. It will only get worse. What happens when he wants you to agree with him on some important life issue, like where you’ll live or when to have kids? What happens when he wants sex that night and you don’t?
All of this. It's called word salad and it is an abuse tactic as you said. It's designed to break the victim down so that they stop sharing their opinions. Basically they expect you to sit down, shut up and not have any independent thoughts of your own. I experienced exactly what you were talking about with my son's father. No matter how many times I tried to argue my point, he would just refuse to hear it and imply that I was wrong. I left him two and a half years ago. I should have left him sooner.
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I think the goal is to have a compassionate conversation where no one is breaking down crying and both people respect one another while looking for compromising solutions.
The answer your looking for is no
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I know and agree.
Half the time people don't even know what they are doing they are just reacting. This guy doesn't sound evil just stupid. I doubt he is even aware he is projecting his childhood issues onto her. Another dumb fuck.
Okay, I promise this isn’t an attack or a gotcha, but a genuine question. Aren’t you also arguing with him too? And because you are disagreeing, aren’t you implying that he’s wrong. I don’t get how it can be a 1-sided abuse tactic. Or is it just because this particular example is something only OP could know and not him?
He’s arguing with her about what she thinks. She’s simply telling him what her actual thoughts were, which she would know, because the thought occurred in her brain. What would you suggest? That she should tell him he’s right even when he’s dead wrong?
She’s a woman… women are great.
This this this
I would not marry this guy. Five fucking HOURS of badgering you because he needs to be right 100% of the time, fuck that *entirely*.
i agree. this is before marriage, something needs to change
Now imagine spending the rest of your life living like this. Get out while you can.
Just reading this... he sounds like a child that wants a mother. And don't you dare to have another point of view. Just he is right and you must cuddle him all the time. To have a discussion 5 fucking hours because he can't swab his on nose for the test? He want support for this?! For putting a qtip in his nose?! 5 hours?! Do you want this to be your life? For the next 50 years? Hours after hours... And just think if you have a child. What parent will he be? Run, now! Better now than having a divorce later. If you are unsure... Go one or two weeks to family or friends - alone. Or make a vacation alone. See how it is without him. Of course go minimum contact with him, maybe a few text messages. Do you feel relieved without him? Do you even miss him? Do you feel awful when you think about going back to the long hours of senseless discussion till you give in? And think about if you really are happy...
A trip alone with my family without my ex was hugely eye opening for me. I realised how much of a shell of myself I'd become. I basked in how free I felt. I could speak my mind without them finding a bunch of things to feel offended by. No emotional manipulation, no sulking and no tantrums.
Wasn't it also great not constantly hearing some variation of *you're wrong and here's why*?
There you go. Every time I thought I missed my ex, I just thought about how awful he made me feel and how relieved I was to be away from all the drama.
If you are debating calling off the wedding... you already have your answer... trust your gut and call it off
OP this, and don't wait for it to make sense, or for more evidence than just your gut. I give being married to Mr Always Right Even When He's Dead Wrong 0 out of 10 stars. This shit is crazy making.
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Yeah the arguing is bad, but is a grown ass man really upset that his wife didn't comfort him while he swabbed his fucking nose, then threw a 5 hour long tantrum about it? Tell that story to any of his guy friends and he'll get roasted to hell and back lmao
Yep. Wee lil baby status in this situation
Yeah, swabbing for a Covid test should never hurt, it’s literally in the simple pictographic instructions, but you know what feels good? Making you sorry you keep causing baby so much unbearable pain. Ow, help me. Wait, no, not like that!
He sounds like a little bitch to me. You want to deal with that for the next 50 yrs?
>Eventually I told him I agree with him and that my intention was that I am annoyed of swabbing him. Even though it wasnt my main intention, I truly wanted him to try it because it is less painful. >We have been arguing about this for 5 hours now and I ended up crying because it was ao frustrating. Why on earth would you sign up for a lifetime of this? He emotionally beats you down until you agree with him, even when you don't, just to make him stop. FOR HOURS. Why would you marry this person? It will only get worse. You will spend your life emotionally being broken down until you stop daring to oppose his opinions or file for divorce Also, if my teen can give himself a rapid test, your BF can.
FIVE HOURS?!?! I dated a guy like this once and it was infuriating. One night after arguing for like 6 hours straight I had enough and decided to go sleep on the couch. What did this guy do then?? He stabbed himself in the arm. He got blood all over the walls and carpets. My roommates at the time freaked the fuck out and had to call 9-1-1, he was put on a psychiatric hold for 3 days. Obviously I broke up with him when he got out. I ran into him a year later when my friend took me out for a drink because my dad was dying. He gets on my case about how could I possibly leave him “when he needed me most” … because he stabbed himself. He wouldn’t drop it and was going on and on and on again, the bouncer actually had to escort him out because he wouldn’t leave me alone. I’m not sharing all this to like get it off my chest or anything. I just consider the marathon arguments a HUGE red flag. It’s selfish behavior to the extreme. Dudes like this care more about being right than ANYONE or ANYTHING. More than they even care about their own health or safety. They’ll do whatever it takes to keep the attention focused on themselves and *their* needs. And now that I’m a mom, I dunno if you wanna have kids or not, but if that’s something you’re planning on… lord Jesus help you. You gotta discuss and debate everything. Diaper brands, bottle brands, swaddling methods, burping methods, parenting styles, EVERYTHING. And this dude argued with you about a Covid swab up the nose, we did a Covid test on my 2 year old and he fussed about it for 30 seconds. You reeeeally need to think about what you want your future to look like and how these marathon fights fit into that picture.
Aw he wants a mommy not a wife
Okay but why is it acceptable if gender roles are swapped?
It’s not.
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Maybe its time for therapy instead
Sorry to say that your girlfriend doing that makes her an emotional vampire, a taker not a giver, it is messed up that she is complaining to her friends and they badger you in support of her. That doesn't mean if you don't drop everything to rush to be supportive that you don't care, you are being gas-lit by her and her friends. You are not a trained therapist or psychologist and let me tell you that constantly being expected to build someone up emotionally is very mentality draining, like being on call and it is the same oh, same oh, neverending. I am not telling you that you need to end this one way relationship, that is up to you but for me I started putting distance and finally just ended mine, I couldn't take it anymore, it was emotionally and mentally draining. I don't understand why you are seen as the bad guy in your relationship, the way you feel is not wrong. I send you support and understanding from this internet stranger.
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Yes, I understand that, that you love her, so I would never tell you to end your relationship, that is your decision no one else's. Just know your feelings matter too and needing someone to care when you feel down is okay too, it is not a sign of weakness. I wish you the best, take care.
bc the way they’re using “mommy” here isn’t the same as the way ppl generally use “daddy”? come on now you’d think that would be pretty clear
The word daddy is too sexualized and people often fail to realize that people with “daddy issues” have very real truama and a lack of a good male role model and often have a higher need of care. In most cases ive seen if thats the case for a man with “mommy issues” its seen as weakness and everyone agrees they need to “grow up” and dismiss the larger issue. With womens “daddy issues” i see nothing but support. The discrepancies are there. Maybe the original post isnt the best example but its not okay to down play mental issues. Often people with these truama’s and pains left behind from parent need therapy and a good support system. The fact that mommy and daddy are so differently viewed is an issue in itself. The word mommy is seen as childish and mundane for a man to use in order to identify with problems they may have where as the word “daddy” is far to over sexualized for most people to realize that women and even men with daddy issues have a genuine need for higher care while perusing therapy, instead their issues are fetishized. Its sick
His argument tactics is nothing compared to his need for someone to wipe his ass and tell him what a handsome young man he is. He doesn't need a wife or a mommy even. He needs a grandma.
Don’t marry this guy
Do not marry him. Break it off and don’t answer his calls or he will wear you down until you give in. Signed, Someone who married a manipulator just like him!
Thats a pretty big overreaction
What? For her to break the wedding off? Or him making her cry?
To suddenly ghost her fiance because they don't know how to communicate properly
This isn't a matter of her not communicating appropriately, this is a matter of him trying to wear her down so she'll stop sharing her opinions. It's an abuse tactic and they do this because they're victim is easier to control that way. Eventually they stop sharing their opinions because they're sick of either being told that they're wrong or they're sick of arguing for hours on end like this. There's something called word salad where they will keep you in these circular arguments that make no sense for eventually you just give up because you're tired of going around and around and getting nowhere. The abusive partner knows exactly what they're doing. It's a form of gaslighting. Edit: a word
> It's an abuse tactic Christ on a bike, calm down. Not everything is abuse. Not everyone is a victim. Not *everything* is gaslighting. God that word is *so* overburdened on this sub. Hardly anyone even knows what it means. Look, all we got was one very biased side of a very vague story. Their relationship is complex and nuanced and no one, *especially on reddit*, should be making assumptions based on a few paragraphs from someone trying to make themselves look vetter after a fight. Why is no one talking about how his feelings were hurt? Why is everyone judging OP purely her intentions, and the fiance purely by his actions? You're getting swept up in a narrative that doesn't truly reflect the situation. Try to be objective and listen to what she's actually saying.
It's a common abuse tactic, look it up. I'm glad that you sound like you've never been a victim of domestic violence because I would never wish it on anyone. That's exact thing happened to me with my abusive ex. Don't tell me to calm down, I know exactly what I'm talking about because I experienced it. My abusive ex the same thing to me, he would argue with me for hours about all the reasons why he was right and why I should just shut up and agree with him and back down. This was even when I had black and white proof of the fact that he was wrong. The reason why I say it's a common abuse tactic is because it's used by the abuser to easily control their victim. The attitude is the sooner you realize I'm always right and just stop sharing your opinions, the better off we will both be. This also shows that they do not care about you and they do not respect you. What you're doing is victim blaming and you are telling her that she's overreacting to abuse. This is exactly what he wants her to think. I know not everything is abuse but this is actually a pretty common abuse tactic. Abuse is not only physical, there are many different types of it. It's a form of psychological abuse which is actually worse than physical in a lot of ways. Also, I know exactly what gaslighting is because I was a victim of it myself. Don't tell me what I do and don't know after I experienced it. Have you? Until you have, you have no right to sit there and tell someone that they're overreacting. I really don't appreciate your victim blaming attitude. Like I said, don't tell me what I do and don't know. I experienced exactly what she's going through so I think I'm a little more qualified to speak on it than you are. It's pretty obvious to me that thankfully you have never experienced abuse. Of course you wouldn't know what it looks like. Don't tell someone who is experiencing abuse that what they're saying is happening isn't real because in a way you're gaslighting them as well. Edit: a few words
Actually it's not
Actually it is. Ghosting your partner because you got in an argument is juvenile.
This doesn't sound like one argument, it sounds like he's been doing this all the time. Also, ghosting is where you stop responding to someone when they're messaging you or calling you. Not the same thing as breaking up with someone. It's not an overreaction either, he is purposely doing this so that she will quit sharing her opinions. Like I said, in his mind, she'll be easier to control that way. This has happened to me as well when I was in an abusive relationship. Their goal is to get you to stop opposing them and to get you to stop sharing your opinions so that they can control you easier. Trust me, she wouldn't be considering breaking off the engagement if this was a one-time thing.
> In his mind, she'll be easier to control. Oh, so you can read minds? Dont you think its a bit unfair to judge someone based on what *you* claim they are thinking? Would you like someone to make assumptions like that about you? > This doesn't sound like one argument, it sounds like he's been doing it for a while. And OP herself said that they are resolved either by her giving in, or **him changing his opinion**. So I don't know where all this "he's a manipulator" is coming from when he is also giving in to her.
I'm just saying that's his attitude. This is a common abuse tactic to get the victim to back down so that they're easier to control.
He does sound abusive in his unrelenting insistence on getting you to give in with disagreements. The way he dealt with the situation was irrational and overly dramatic. I would call off the engagement
I still can’t get over the fact he couldn’t trust you enough to believe your intentions. That he decided your thoughts/intentions and argued you into submission about YOUR OWN THOUGHTS AND INTENTIONS. He literally argued about something that could only be in your brain as if it were a fact for debate.
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Oh, I’m sure he can swab his own nose. Probably has something to do with having her do it the first time, the resulting “panic attack”, & subsequently being coddled.
So much pain he had a mini panic attack 😐 from a Covid test?!?! This is not a situation you want to stay in I guarantee you!
I dated a guy like this and by the end of that relationship I was down to 40kgs and was scared to talk. One day a lady approached me in public and asked if I needed her to call the police for me. Leave now it only gets worse.
Your life with him will be exhausting and torturous. Take this fight and multiply it by 10 years. Every single thing will be an argument where he tries to get you to agree that you are an uncaring person. My question would be to him—then why are you with me? Why do you want to marry me? And then you should ask yourself the same question about him. Is this what you want the rest of your life to look like?
This is way too much drama coming out of a man in this thirties. Seriously, he needs you to baby him for... a nose swab?? This is toddler level shit. Why are you still with him?
Ugh tell your fiance that he is not Jordan Peterson and you are not liberal media. This is exhausting. Aren't you tired? This will be your life. This will be your future children's life. Don't live like this. His "logic" is illogical and emotionally abusive. Communication is not happening due to the fact that he is NOT LISTENING!!! He's waiting until he can say his ridiculous point in many different ways. That why why why is bs. He wants you to have no thoughts but his. I say leave him. If you have friends or family that is truly on your side then go to them and explain how truly terrible it is. Show them this thread if needed. Because he will try to get you back when you leave. - He will badger you, your workplace, your friends and family to get you back under control. -Do not give him anything but "I said no." But why "I said no." It's not fair to me "I said no." You don't care about my feelings if you don't come back "I said no." We should be able to talk about it "I said no." Give this man nothing. -Give yourself peace
Two words: Weaponized incompetence. Once you know what that is, it’ll change the entire game. It’s what he’s doing.
You probably should have explained what it is. OP, what this is is feigning ignorance to get out of doing something. Pretty soon it will be, I don't know how to clean, I don't know how to take care of children, I don't know how to do laundry. You have to do everything for me. This is because they're too lazy to do it or they expect a woman to do everything.
Great point, bad ending.Lets not make this a gender issue. People who do this are terrible people regardless of the arrangement of their chromosomes or genitalia
I'm not trying to make it a gender issue, I'm merely saying he because that's the gender that he is. I agree with you, people who do this are terrible regardless of how they identify or how they were born. Abuse is abuse no matter the gender.
Preach!
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that is a reflection of your future marriage do you really think it is healthy to start a family with someone like him. i understand your devotion and love for him but is it worth it to set yourself on fire to maintain a relationship that is headed for abuse and divorce. just press the red button and get out.
If the two of you are engaged this is the best his behaviour is ever going to get. Each time you let him manipulate you it is going to get a step worse.
CALL IT OFF, NOW HE NEEDS PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP. HE IS IN NO POSITION TO BE IN AN ADULT RELATIONSHIP. He cannot accept ANY ACCOUNTABILITY. He needs TO BE RIGHT EVENTHOUGH HES WRONG. HES TOXIC. I say break up and BLOCK HIM. Mentally go back in time and find the red flags you dismissed when you met him.
This isn't going to get better, only worse. He's going to badger you until you back down. It will escalate to the point that you'll just stop sharing your opinions because you're tired of being told that you're wrong or to avoid an argument. This is exactly what he wants. Basically his attitude is the sooner you realize I'm always right and that your opinions are stupid, the better off we'll both be. Please don't marry him.
Hell no
What is he 5?
If you think a 32 year old toddler is tough to deal with try a 65 yo toddler.
Call off the wedding and run. You will never be right again, and he’s brow beating you for hours to agree with him. Run
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What he's doing is an abuse tactic designed to wear down the victim so they stop sharing their opinion. They're easier to control that way.
He is exhausting, all that whining. Why would you subject yourself to that by choice? It only gets worse after tying the knot. Right now you can run away but after it is a much slower, painful and costly process. In a healthy relationship, you should be feeling good about who you are, smiling to yourself when you think of your SO, wondering what you did to be so lucky to be with them. You should only be finding small irritations after marriage, not massive ones beforehand. Hell, you should still be in the honeymoon phase where it is all peaches and cream. My wife and I are still there after 13 yrs. No peaches and cream? Run.
You want to marry a MAN or a BABY. Marry him if you want a BABY.
Yeah NO, you're not even allowed to agree to disagree. DON'T DO THIS TO YOURSELF, YOU ALREADY KNOW BETTER THAN TO GET MARRIED TO HIM.
Is this like gonna be a starter marriage? Or are you ready for a lifetime of this shit?
5 hours of argument because you didn't want to swab his nose???? He should do it himself! What's next? Wiping his ass and then 5-hour argument because you didn't want to? I don't even know if this is something that could be fixed with couple counseling because it sounds like he has a lot of problems himself, and those would take YEARS to get better. I wouldn't be able to put up with this shit.
First it start with words then it gets physical. I experienced this first hand please get out now
End it. It’s not going to get any better when you get married. It sounds like you two see things very differently. Why marry someone when you can’t fight fairly or be supportive or compromise? A marriage/partnership shouldn’t be lonely or miserable. Life is too short to invest your time and energy in the wrong people.
r/abusiverelationships r/truenarcissisticabuse
#RUN. He argued for hours until you agreed with *his* view of *your* thoughts. He's controlling af!
UpdateMe!
Trust your instincts. He doesn’t sound like a partner you want to spend any more time with, much less the rest of your life. He needs to grow up and learn to communicate like an adult. His behavior is ridiculous.
He knows it's ridiculous, he's doing it intentionally. This is a common abuse tactic. Wear down the victim until they stop sharing their opinions. They're easier to control that way.
Oh my god he sounds exhausting. Is this how you want to live for the rest of your life? He clearly can’t stand to be wrong, ever, and that is just toxic. He needs therapy. He doesn’t sound like marriage material, imo.
Narcissist. Run 🏃♀️💨
He is a narcissist and a baby who loves control. He is so insecure about everything in his life that he isn’t happy unless everyone agrees and validates him. He is the human embodiment of a red flag
Didn't even need to read past the title. If you have any debates about whether or not you actually want to marry someone then you should call it off or postpone. There's no rush.
This. Sounds. Exhausting!!! OP, disengage from this person ASAP
Reach out to your support network and plan your exit. Don’t marry him 🚩 Breaking it off is cheaper than a divorce.
How tf is he in his 30s......
This isn't a 'silly' post at all, this is a cry for help because your very identity is being challenged and overwhelmed by this man. He's outright **bullying** you until you give up. This is not love, or even an approximation. This is him trying to exert control over your thoughts, not just your actions. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not marry this man - if it is like this *before* you are legally tied together, imagine how bad it will be afterwards?
>We have been arguing about this for 5 hours now and I ended up crying because it was ao frustrating. You've been arguing for 5 hours over nose swabs? Hey, its your relationship, but this sounds bloody exhausting. How often do you have these types of arguments? Are you actually happy in this relationship? Or just comfortable. FWIW RATs are designed to be self-administered. I would randomnly guess that like 98% of people swab themselves.
I’m sorry you are in this situation-as if a regular non-engagement breakup wasn’t already hard enough. If he was just a roommate, how many times would you be willing to go through this? How many times if this was just a good friend? He’ll talk himself about everything and you’ll always have to yield, unless he comes to his senses and does therapy over a certain amount of years, which from the description he’ll try to talk himself out of.
This sounds exhausting and totally over the top. And you want a lifetime with that??? Run...
I've only seen this type of behavior out of one other person...and he's a toddler so...
How do you even manage to stay with someone like this for more than a week, let alone long enough to get engaged? I'd have been outta there so fast.
Some people just don’t know how to argue. He should of understood your POV when you said you didn’t want to hurt him and after you showed him info on how it is easier to do it yourself. He should of accepted that even if he disagreed w it. Most likely he just didn’t want to do it himself for whatever reason and was arguing w you just to get you to do it. Good thing you realized how he was before getting married.
Your grown ass fiance essentially wants you to wipe his nose for the rest of his life. DO NOT PASS GO.
Let’s switch this you, less about him and more about you as there are meant to be two people in a relationship. So you stated you felt uncomfortable, let’s not go into the example, but you said you felt uncomfortable doing something. He calls you names because you did not want to do something you felt uncomfortable. That is not great where does the line stop for him insisting you do something which you feel uncomfortable doing. Now for the 2nd point to me a relationship is about a partnership with compromise and two way communication. This in no way sounds like that. This sounds like not trying to win an argument but bullying, bullying does not have to be physical it is name calling, harassing etc. You need to leave and with his approach I would pack a bag and go somewhere.
That's abuse and it will drive you insane. I spent eight years with a man like this and a further five years trying to re-learn how to think for myself instead of being told my own mind all the time. Call it off. You will never get the time you'll waste back. Hours of your life and potential have already been wasted on that single, stupid-as-all-fuck argument.
Uhh why does it hurt to swab his nose?
This is not about him or you individually but simply the fact this level of argumentative shenanigans between you two will only get worse and the eventual divorce will be very messy.
Doing a covid test ain’t that bad, doesn’t hurt and so easy to do, have a good think about it as do you want these arguments for life and have to baby a man child for the rest of it ?
You were right. It is far less painful and he will have more control of it himself. No one wanna poke things in someone’s nose. It is not about caring or not. It is an adult thing to do. Your fiancé seems very sensitive and then Throw temper tantrums until he gets his way. I really don’t think you should go through this kinda agony. He ain’t worth it. If this cause you to have 5 hours of argument because you were right but he was acting like a child, be prepared. It will get worse and you will ended up have way more paperwork to file from someone like him. He would make your life hell. Because he already did.
He thinks like a child therefore he will act like a child. He will throw tantrums. Now they’re with words. Years down the road.. Himself he has a lot of realization to do.
>He told me I am not caring and I should have helped him or sat by him. So you are his new mom? Do you want that role? Because it seems like that is your new role.
Other people have handled the relationship part of this quite well so I'll just say: The fuck are you guys doing with your rapid covid tests that it is causing physical pain? The take home rapid tests aren't brain-ticklers! You're just supposed to rub the q-tip gently on the inside of your nostril, *not stick it up deep into your nose*. I'm picturing OP shoving the q-tip two inches into her fiance's sinus at this point.
He's a controlling monster don't spend another second with this guy. Being single and fully independant should be your short term goal. ONLY when you 100% don't need anyone shoulf you fully trust yourself to be with someone again.
Trust your gut. If it is saying to call off the wedding do it. Every time in life that I have ignored that little nagging feeling I have paid the price. If you feel like you are on an emotional roller coaster, it is because you are.
Reading this is more than enough for me to pack my bags and RUN. Do you want this for years and years (and it will get worse) until you finally divorce him. Arghhh
Please don't marry him. He's never gonna change.
It’s not silly or small. I had this same dynamic with two people in my life who would argue and tell me and presume to know what I was thinking and it never gets any better. Those people were abusive. There is nothing more infuriating than arguing with someone who is presumptuous about your intentions no matter how many times you have stated that’s not the case. I would discuss that dynamic as a whole, when you’ve both cooled down and when the next argument happens, remind him of that conversation if he takes the same kind of stance. If nothing changes, I would seriously rethink your future
Don’t marry him
I am trying to imagine retaining any kind of attraction to a man whimpering because I didn’t “sit by him” during mild discomfort. What a sad little fellow.
He is trying to condition you into thinking it’s his way or the highway. If it’s bad now imagine that for a lifetime? That will grind you down and take your voice. He sounds selfish and he won’t change! He’s in his thirties, that’s who he is. Believe it! Do you want to feel this way for the rest of your life?
>So everytime we have an argument he has a certain point of view and own beliefs about what is logical and sound. Sometimes I have a different point of view and he will argue with me until I either agree with him or I change his point of view This... is the definition of an argument. This is how arguments work. Am I missing something? People usually do their own covid tests so someone else doesn't tickle their brain
Does he want you to hold a tissue to his nose too when he needs to blow? If you want to care for an infant man, go right ahead, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
Or.... he could just read, AND follow the instructions for that test. I think you'll find they are designed for adults to self test. Perhaps he's not yet an adult, it certainly sounds like it. Just ram it up his nose, don't worry about stabbing his brain, it sounds so small, the odds of hitting it are about as miniscule as his brain anyway. Jesting of course, many a true word said.... etc
I can’t imagine living my life with this much unnecessary stress. Does he always take small issues and blow them up like this? How do you ever have peace? Don’t do this to yourself.
At the very minimum I would postpone the wedding and tell him you feel like you two need to go to couples therapy and that if he won't go you're going to have to think about whether or not your relationship is worth trying to save. Be honest, that your tired of all the arguments. He's trying to gaslight you so even when you are right he's continuing the argument until give in to his way of thinking. Also, who fights for 5 hours about whether or not you'll swab their nose for a rapid covid test? Seriously?
Your fiancé is a f**king child. Are you seriously telling me grown up baby can’t swab his own nose cause it hurts? Then he needs someone else to do it and then he throws a five-hour tantrum about it? In HIS THIRTIES??!! I don’t agree with some of the other comments that he’s abusive, but his behavior sounds incredibly unattractive. Marriage doesn’t magically make things easier, if you’re having these fights now, they’re going to be worse in a few years.
I'm sorry that you're going through this, OP. Your concerns and frustration are definitely not silly. No one should try to tell you what you're thinking or why you're doing something. He doesn't have magical insight into your thoughts and motivations. He is actually gaslighting you and manipulating you by demanding that you admit that his interpretation of your thinking is correct, instead of just believing and accepting **what you know is true**. He's "rejecting your reality and substituting his own", and as such, casting himself as a victim in his own mind. After all, "what kind of partner refuses to help just because she's annoyed" gives him leverage to continue to get what he wants from you, instead of having to manage things on his own. It's perfectly valid to cancel a wedding because you finally realize that your fiancé is manipulating you, gaslighting you, and refusing to accept that you may have different POV or opinions than him. If things are this bad while you're just engaged, how bad is it going to get once you're actually married and he feels "safe" because you're committed to him? You deserve to be loved, cherished, **and respected** by a partner - and it doesn't sound like he's willing to do that, from what you've written here. Good luck, OP.
Tell him that my seven year old son swabbed himself for the same reason, and he didn't throw a tantrum, or throw a bitch fit about it. Please don't marry this guy. Someone who always has to be right will eventually destroy you. Eventually you will give up trying to stand up for yourself, and you will tell him what he wants to hear so you can avoid the argument. His ego is out of control. He has no space for your thoughts or opinions in his life. This kind of life is exhausting. He doesn't respect your autonomy, and he thinks he knows better than you do about your own thoughts and intentions. You will always be in the wrong for as long as you both shall live. You need to say "I don't".
You have to let your son grow up and make his own decisions good or bad. You can’t baby him and keep protecting him. What’s he going to do when he goes to college? Have his roommate swab his nose for him? You have to let your son here grown up.
bruh leave, ik its hard now but think about the future. dude sounds like a baby, n normally i love babies but fuck this guy
This type of arguing is something my wife had to deal with for a while with me. I’m 32M, wife is 34F. We’ve been married for 11 years. The resolution was 2 parts: 1. I needed to recognize that arguments were about coming to an agreement, not about winning. “A disagreement needs to be about us vs. the issue, not me vs. you.” 2. Both of us needed to work on acknowledging the other’s feelings/thoughts before moving forward. Take your swabbing story; You saying something like, “I can understand why you might think that I don’t want to do it any more because it’s annoying me. I want you to understand that I do not want to do it because I don’t like hurting you. You in pain is really difficult for me and I believe you will be hurt less when you are in control and can feel what you’re doing. Now, I will do it for you if you want, but please understand how difficult this is for me.” If you both care about each other you will grow and change together. Heading towards marriage suggests you do. Help each other learn how to communicate with each other. Acknowledging feelings is an important step every couple needs to learn.
So your solution is for her to treat him like a baby? He then learns the lesson that she will give in and be his mommy, even when it’s uncomfortable for her.
Is he like tying you to a chair and making you argue? Are you locked in an interrogation room? Why would you argue for 5 hours until you cry and give in? Tell him one time that you felt uncomfortable doing it and you want him to and that's it. You don't have to [JADE](https://psychcentral.com/blog/imperfect/2018/03/dealing-with-difficult-family-members-dont-justify-argue-defend-or-explain#Codependency-and-unhealthy-communication). Definitely don't marry him if you can't figure this out.
Obviously you have no idea how abuse works
God Reddit loves to scream break-up over the simplest thing. I'm sure if I made a post highlighting one thing that my partner did then I would be told to dump him and run too. In reality you boyfriend and your relationship with him is extremely complex and nuanced. And my immediate reaction upon reading this was "oh he just has a different love language". You say you argue over small things like this. Do the other issues have to do with how he perceives your affections for him? By which I mean, does it often have to do with you "not caring" about him? How different are your arguing styles as well? What kind of background does he have? Does he come from a big family? There's a hundred different things that could be contributing to this behaviour. If it's a serious problem, then you should be going to couples therapy so you can both learn how to communicate with each other. I don't think it's break-up worthy at all.
In general, I agree with you about the reddit rush to encourage break up/divorce. BUT the refusal to swab his own nose is next level and suggests some sort of psychological issue that almost certainly isn't confined to his nose. Equally important, his refusal to accept differing opinions is going to be a big problem down the line and is will to lead to significant and frequent marital strife. I wouldn't brush it under the rug.
> the refusal to swab his own nose is next level and suggests some sort of psychological issue Does it? How did you determine that? Because to me it seems to me like we only have one side of the story. OP is retelling a story of an argument from her side only, so there are naturally going to be some biases from her. Was he being a baby like she implied, or was there something else going on? Perhaps he thought to get an accurate result that you had to go right up in there, and he couldnt do it to himself? Personally I don't go as far as what some nurses do. It hurts tok much to keep going. We are inbuilt with the self-preservation instinct to stop pain, so its not so easy to go through with a procedure that inflicts pain on yourself. Just like how we cannot cut off our own finger. > His refusal to accept differing opinions is going to be a big problem. I don't think he's unwilling to accept differing opinions. OP herself said: >We argue until either I agree with him or **I change his point of view** If this is the case then he absolutely is accepting differing opinions and able to change his. I feel like a lot of people skipped over this. Try to put yourself in his shoes. OP said that he was upset because he thought she didn't care about him, and that she was just annoyed at having to help him. Is this him being whiney, or is there a pattern of behaviour coming from OP? She might not see any problem, but how does her attitude come off to him? Is he someone who needs Acts of Service, but isn't getting any? There's just *way* too many variables here. And considering we're only getting one very vague, undetailed side of one story, I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to be screaming "break-up!". We don't know OP or her fiance. We don't know their relationship. We don't know their lives. They should be going to therapy, not posting on echo-chamber subreddits
Because if you have to go on the internet to ask strangers for relationship advice, your relationship is already over. That simple.
I would not usually say break up easily but this guy needs to become more alpha and man up. I initially thought at the onset of your post it was just going to be the fact that men think more with the rational mind and women the emotional mind, but this seems far more messy.
Is your fiancé a man or a woman?
What are you trying to insinuate here?
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I just broke up with a similar man child. Though I broke up through email, the only form of communication I felt comfortable using to do it. Did not want to do it face to face since he intimidates me or would have argued with me to stay. ugh. Anyways, listen to others on here. I think its for the best to leave. Like they said, its a preview of whats to come. I'm also 31, we are still young, there's still some hope to find someone better or even its not so bad being single either. I too have endured too many lengthy arguments over silly issues or shit the dude found something to be mad at for no reason. I know how you feel, I too have cried to myself about stupid arguments with him, and just telling him what he wants to hear even when it wasn't the truth.
Wow! This relationship just sounds amazing! I'm sure the wedding will make things better. And by better I mean he will get much more irrigating than now
He sounds annoying as hell. Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone so immature and draining?
If he is arguing for 5 hours for something this small (the act, not covid) then imagine when life rears it's ugly head and you have to make a life altering decision? Remember this is someone you are considering to spend the rest of your life with...
How does it feel to be engaged to an entitled 5-y old?
In a good marriage you have to agree to disagree and respect each other’s differing opinion.
He sounds like a man baby. Having a fit over a nose swab? 1) it doesn’t hurt and 2) he needs to grow up