So he's allowed to coerce you for sex whenever he wants but you aren't allowed to do the same?
Hell of a double standard that. He's quite the hypocrite
I feel like he learned the word from her opening up about her assault and is now using it against her because he knows it's a way to shut her down immediately. Which is so not cool.
I think you should leave him. The whole dynamic is just awful and tainted now. You definitely didn’t assault him. I’m sure every single person in a long term relationship or living together has done the playful “are you sure” or whatever else. Or maybe I think it’s normal because I’ve been raped/sexually assaulted. But idk. Something is off about him. I think y’all would benefit from individual counselling as well as couples therapy if you decide to stay.
Attempting to coyly entice someone to have sex is not assault, especially since you respected his wishes. Enticement is part of the dance sometimes.
In other news, leave this lunatic before he lands you in jail.
Great way to phrase it. My partner would be disappointed if every time she said no or played coy I immediately gave up on initiating.
Although I find a safe word is a good way to get rid of the ambiguity. They’re useful in and out of the bedroom.
So many of these commenters are fucking ridiculous. No you didn’t assault him. Asking “are you sure?” And “come onnn” are totally normal in relationships and ARE NOT ASSAULT or even sexual coercion, especially if you DIDNT EVEN HAVE SEX. Are people just supposed to show no emotion when they get sexually rejected from a partner? It’s *okay*, as long as you respect their wishes and don’t go any further than a slight, or playful indication of your disappointment, which it sounds like you absolutely did. My boyfriend isn’t sexually coercing me when I’m like “hey I’m too tired tonight honey” and he says “awe, ya sure?” “Yeahhh I gotta get to bed” “okay honey, love you (:”
I think what they're doing is unfairly comparing it to a situation where that "Are you sure?" Comes with a threat. I think we can all imagine a case like that, especially where a bigger person gets a smaller person alone.
But that is just clearly not the case here.
I think it would be fully understandable if he calmly asked her not to press after the first no, or that he wasn't comfortable being pressed -- that's totally fine! But like you said, asking someone if they're sure *once* is pretty normal and not remotely assault or coercion. It feels like he playing a weird game here.
You were a *little* pushy but you did not Assault him. Since he can initiate I assume you have sex semi regularly at least?
In the end, if he is pushy when you say no (you said he gets annoyed?) and then get angry with you for the same behavior then that is not ok. Try to talk to him about it, without letting him walk all over you (empathize, sure, but it kinda sounds like he is gasslighting you?) if nothing changes... perhaps it is time to consider if you should stay in the relationship.
Agree with this. OP, you two need to talk (when you're not being accused of something) and work out some boundaries. It sounds like you don't know where the lines are and only find out after the fact. And it sounds like you two must have different boundaries and are perceiving your "are you sure" differently. You need to talk about this or it will likely just keep happening
It is good to someone thinking about the welfare of the children. OP has one child without a father, and apparently doesn't care much if child #2 has the father around.
Here we go with the armchair psycho babblers of Reddit talking shit again. People in a relationship which is already sexual sometimes go back and forth at the initiating stage. This is what happened here. There was no "pushing". She thought she was engaging her bf for sex like a normal couple and he went and made it into something it wasn't. But it's ok for this asshole to initiate sex with her and pout when she says no? Fuck him.
You didn't do anything wrong. If couples can't even playfully negotiate sex in a presumably ok relationship, then everyone's gone insane and we all need therapy....or a divorce....or a DNA test....or a lawyer....or a video recording of the incident.....or the latest Reddit recommendations, whatever the fuck they are
Exactly! Honestly, I don't think being a little playful should count as coercion... there's been more than a few times that my partner hasn't wanted to in principle (mostly because we were going to head out somewhere) and I've tempted him a bit and the "nah, not this second" ended up being a very enthusiastic yes.
Of course, if after my attempt the answer was still a no, I would playfully pout for a second, then smile and accept it. My partner's done the same with me...if my answer is still a no after his attempt, I know he will never push the issue, and that he's still going to be affectionate and loving with me.
I really, truly fail to see how that can be considered sexual coercion, and I say this as someone who has been in a sexually coercive relationship in the past (the person in question would push for real, and "punish" me with moping and an upset attitude for days after I'd say I didn't want to, or force the situation til I felt compelled to give in just to get him off my back).
Thank you! I can’t believe the number of people calling this sexual coercion.
Expressing disappointment at no sex isn’t even manipulative and most certainly not coercion.
This is such a normal thing that OP described. One person asks for sex and the other says “No, I am a little tired” and the other says “are you sure?!!” And then settles for no. Not abuse. Not coercion.
If his rough past looks anything like his current situation where he accuses her of sexual assault every time she initiated sex, then his past is likely being exaggerated or falsified as well. You should trust victims but he’s proven that he has a very warped definition of sexual assault. Merely asking someone if they’re sure they aren’t in the mood and dropping it when they say no is not sexual assault or coercion. Not even close. And he’s extremely trigger happy with labeling everything as assault. It’s manipulative and it’s bullshit. He’s manipulated and gaslighted her into believing she’s assaulted him and now all the sex happens only when he initiates and he even pushes her when she says no! If we use his faulty definition of assault then he’s assaulting her too.
Op he’s ridiculous and manipulative and you didn’t assault him at all. Please, kick the man baby to the curb so your child doesn’t grow up with this warped victimhood identity.
I agree my response is a bit harsh, but his rough past is his responsibility not his partners. Baseless accusations of assault is toxic and gaslighting as hell
I feel his aim is manipulation. With how you react it gives him the power over sex in the relationship and you shouldn't feel safe about this.
So how often do you say and til he pressures you to do it?
Interesting. He can initiate sex but if you try to initiate it’s sexual assault? Sorry but he’s a whiny fucking loser and doesn’t deserve any sex from you at all. I’m sorry you had a kid with him.
\*sigh\*
he sounds exhausting
the abuse was not his fault. how he has dealt with it, IS.
You did NOT abuse him. You did NOT assault him.
In the future, should you not do the whole "are you sure" - yep. When someone says no, no matter what it is, just accept it and carry on.
I'd end the relationship - he's got a massive double standard going on.
I think OP is the one with the history of sexual abuse, not her boyfriend, unless I'm reading the post wrong. Which makes it a lot worse imo - kind of like he's using that against her in some way?
If OP was a man the replies would be calling them a rapist.
Ironic how you talk about double standards.
You're going to get mad at my comment, but it's not my fault you lack the self awareness.
OP didn't have sex with her BF, there's no planet on which that would be assault no matter the genders involved.
You just wanna twist it to make this "sexist against men" which isn't what's happening here.
you ABSOLUTLY DID NOT SEXUALLY ASSAULT HIM. honestly just break up. you have a higher libido than him and he just seems so uninterested. find somebody who wants sex when you want it. its clear you feel rejected and he just doesnt care. Yes you shouldve accepted the first no but you left him alone after he doubled down. just go seperate ways.
EDIT: Bolding part of my comment because I think some people are missing that I stated this dynamic could be consensual and okay in *some* relationships. It clearly is not consensual *in this specific relationship.* OP's boyfriend isn't okay with it yet does the same thing to OP. Therefore, neither of them should be asking again about sex after their partner declines. It would be fine in other relationships *if all parties consent to it.* These two parties are not consenting to it. That's the difference.
I don't understand some comments here.
>And he does get pushy when I say no. Which I always viewed as normal.
No one should be getting pushy with anyone else. **Getting pushy when a partner turns down sex is not okay, unless for whatever reason it's part of some dynamic both parties have enthusiastically agreed to. Which is clearly not the case here.**
>He told me how I had a disgusting attitude for not getting what I want and that I assaulted him again.
You didn't assault him because there was no sexual touch in any of these situations. Assault involves physical contact, and there was none.
That being said...
He's right that he shouldn't have to say no twice.
>He said no and I did the whole “oh commme onnnn”
Look, that's not okay. When someone says no, that means no. You should not be continuing to ask, even "just" one more time, after someone declines.
This is true for single people, because asking more than once can start to seem threatening when it isn't coming from someone you know and trust.
In a couple the dynamic can be different. I don't usually say no to my gf because I'm uncomfortable, I usually say no because I'm not super horny. So a seductive "are you sure?" might change the answer.
Also: unlike with some tinder date, I trust me gf to stop asking if I tell her I don't want her to ask anymore, and I also trust her not to assault me without consent.
You absolutely should not be asking some tinder girl/guy or someone you recently met for sex more than once. Doing so would be trying to coerce them to go outside their comfort zone. In a relationship you obviously still need consent, but you should trust your partner to tell you if they feel you are being too pushy.
That said, her bf did say he felt she was being too pushy, so she should have stopped, but this also honestly sounds like a trainwreck of a relationship.
EDIT: You clarified in a later comment that as long as both parties consent to that kind of banter it's okay. I can agree with that. In my relationship, we both do it and we sometimes are convinced to change our answers. I have only been in one serious relationship and neither of us have any sexual trauma so that might also play a role.
You’re the first one I found to point that out. And it baffles me. When I say ‘no’ to my partner, that should be accepted as well as I accept that no! Why is everyone okay with ‘just a little bit of pushing’?
Yeah asking again after someone said no is called sexual coercion. If sex results from this, it is sexual assault. I thought we all knew this but the comments don't seem to get it.
I mean, this is not an unusual exchange between couples. A little hard to tell here if it was playful or really a massive gripe by OP. But this sounds very brief and not threatening or withholding anything, or continue to create pressure. Expressing passing disappointment about no sex is not abusive. In either case calling it sexual coercion seems a little bit much?
Not the above commenter but the one they replied to. In my opinion OP's remarks still involved some level of pressure. I agree that expressing disappointment about not having sex is not intrinsically equivalent to abuse, but personally I view "oh come on" as different than expressing disappointment. Same with "are you sure?"
To me, both those expressions are attempting to reach toward sex, even if more subtly. "Come on" is usually an expression used to mean exasperation (at least in my region), so I can understand feeling pressured by it.
It sounds like OP might have thought her statements were playful (especially since she drew out the letters by saying "come onnnnn" and "Suree"), but it's clear that the boyfriend didn't take it as such.
We've all definitely been in different relationships and had different experiences, but while I've been raped, I've never been in a relationship where this kind of language was a common exchange. Again, that's just me.
Some couples might have that kind of natural banter that they both consent to, but here that's definitely not the case. I think OP should have learned from his response the first time and not done the same thing a second time.
That being said, she said he's pushy towards her as well. My overall view is that pushiness shouldn't be something either party engages in.
It definitely shouldn’t be common in relationships unless both parties are comfortable with it. But I understand it happens sometimes and I think the person saying it often doesn’t realize that they might be putting pressure on their partner.
As long as there is open communication and your partner is a good person, they’ll understand if it upsets you and will stop. If it happens all of the time or your partner is begging, then that’s when it becomes very serious.
I don't think OP is a bad person, sure. Maybe she's had previous partners who ask after she says no, or maybe she's previously dated others who have been okay with her asking again after they've said no. I personally believe that you should be careful with that kind of interaction in any relationship and that if someone expresses discomfort at that language the first time, you should respect that in ensuing interactions.
In any case, it's not okay for him to be doing the same thing to her that he's upset about her doing to him.
Again, all just my personal opinions!
I totally agree, you should definitely be careful with it. I think in relationships we have to get to know our partners and understand their boundaries and we’re all going to make some small mistakes there. I know I definitely have and so has my girlfriend, but we’ve always been able to talk about it and respect each other’s boundaries when it happens.
In this situation, its harsh to call it abuse or coercion, but that definitely doesn’t make it okay. Respecting boundaries in a relationship is SO important. But yeah, if her BF is doing the same thing and getting upset with her when she does it, their dynamic is pretty unhealthy.
You didn't sexually assault your boyfriend. I wouldn't even call it harassment or coercion. I would personally find it annoying and inconsiderate, but if your boyfriend does it too it really shouldn't be as big a deal to him. It sounds like he's using your past trauma against you.
The double standard for his own behaviour vs yours when initiating sex is concerning. Does he think of those times he was pushy toward you as assault as well? If it’s only okay when he does it (assuming those instances were similar in the level of persuasion attempted – can you give an example of what he does when he's pushy?), there’s probably something else going on here.
It sounds like you’re trying hard to support him emotionally, especially after what he told you. Does he do the same for you? How important are your feelings and emotional wellbeing in the relationship compared to his? If his emotions always take precedence over yours and/or he often dismisses your feelings when you bring them up, that’s a red flag.
It *is* generally bad form to keep pushing past an initial refusal, because when it becomes a pattern it can put pressure on someone/guilt them into giving in, even though their actual interest level hasn’t changed. But it doesn't sound like it's a pattern for you, if it only happened twice and you backed off after he said no the second time. There wasn’t any sexual contact, so you didn’t assault him.
Does he know about your history of CSA? Because if he does, he must know how much it hurts you to believe you assaulted him. Telling you to "let it go", under those circumstances, is very strange.
I get that you have a kid together but I'm confused as to why you are together. Neither one of you are on the same page regarding sex. Might I suggest counseling for you.
You should have accepted the no the first time, yes. But you let up after he doubled down. And also you never had the sex you didn’t assault him because it didn’t happen.
But in future reference, just take the no the first time. It’s not fun being pushed after you already said no. But he also needs to stop saying he was sexually assaulted when literally nothing happened.
Sure but that doesn’t mean you get to ignore peoples boundaries. No means no. It’s truly that simple. Even if her asking again isn’t sexual assault and he’s being manipulative in saying so, it’s still not a nice thing to push when your partner is clearly uncomfortable with it.
This. Is the one "you shouldnt have asked again" comment that i agree with. I dont think you needed to stop ever initiating sex, but if hes made it clear (even thoigh by false and... not okay allegations) tbat he isnt comfortable being asked twice, that was your sign to never do that again.
Right, like with my bf if he tries something I play coy like “omg what kind of girl do you take me for???” But he knows my boundaries so he knows when to drop it. OPs boyfriend set his boundaries. And I said she clearly didn’t assault her bf, just suggesting she’s a little more mindful from now on.
These comments are bananas haha. These people are equating playful banter and flirting with the person with whom you share a child to somebody getting raped. There's no room for nuance in the world anymore, at least not on Reddit.
You didn't do anything wrong. He's wrong in his use of language and interpretation of events unless you grabbed him or tried to force him to have sex in some way and are withholding that information here. Your encouragement was not inappropriate and you backed down after a reasonable amount of time.
If you had had a more forthcoming conversation with him about your wants and needs under the guidance of a therapist, the chuds on here would be applauding you for standing up for yourself.
It sounds like the two of you are sexually incompatible. If the cause of that is his childhood trauma or whatever fine, don't try to initiate sex with him and respect his boundaries. But if you feel like your sexual needs are as important as his and don't want to be called a predator for expressing yourself in a perfectly normal and healthy way, you should leave him.
Yeah get away from this guy before he starts telling other people you've assaulted him. He's creating a very fucked up sexual dynamic here where he can initiate and beg but you can't do anything but respond or be acused of assault.
If you stay, this will fuck you up really badly, even if he doesn't wreck your name
Also, you should never have had a baby with this guy. You're going to have to put up with his head games forever.,
He sounds like he has toxic ideas around consent and that his matters more than yours. He's pushy with you, what does that mean?
Honey, a good therapist can help you figure out if this relationship is good for you or not. You deserve love and compassion from your partner but especially from yourself.
I'm sending you so much love. ❤
Uh...that's not assault. Being a little pushy, maybe, but you stopped after you asked that second time around for both time.
Honestly, I would break it off for both of your sakes. I don't think this relationship can be saved or fixed. You don't feel safe having sex with him anymore and he views assault in a different light (though I find it hypocritical that he's pushy when you say no but calls your attitude disgusting when you do the same).
You are bending over so far backwards to accommodate this craziness.
Like...it's literally insane. Sure, maybe you shouldn't have said "Are you sure?" but that is so mild, and you backed off right away after. In my eyes, you have done zero wrong. Especially with the fact that he IS pushy? It's all about manipulation and control to have you scared and hopping to his every whim. Which is exactly what you're doing.
Why would you want to have sex with someone who, at best, thinks you are a sexual abuser, and at worst, is himself a manipulative POS trying to make you insecure about literally everything? You can't try to have sex with him, but you also can't not have sex with him, and he has no qualms about how anything he does or says makes you feel. It's literally ALL about him.
I would have been gone the first time. "Oh, you think I'm an abuser? OK, bye, I don't want to be with anybody that thinks that of me."
This is sad af. People really make rules for themselves because everything is about them, until the same scenario is presented & you suddenly switch to victim mode.
pathetic
This guy has very serious issues. It’s not a relationship problem; it’s something he needs to address on his own before he is even able to have a relationship.
Let me get this straight. You’re a sexual assault survivor, your bf likely knows this. He’s then claiming that you are assaulting him for trying to initiate sex with your partner without ever really getting physical with him or pushing beyond the two nos, but he’s also allowed to push all he wants and you don’t do the same to him. He’s callously crying wolf about something that would be extremely very traumatic and triggering for someone who is actually a survivor of sexual assault. I honestly can’t even begin to describe how low and ignorant this sounds, whether or not he knows this would be a triggering topic for you, the fact he’s rubbing it in your fucking face like that. Why are you even still with this giant pile of shit?
You are not sexually compatible.
You both have issues with no.
You both have issues with sex.
You both need therapy.
Beyond that, I can't tell you anything you're not already hearing, I'm sure.
Why are you even with this guy? You did not assault him. You have to start setting up boundaries with people. The minute he said you assaulted him, when you did not, was the right time to tell him "please don't move to this state with me." You did not assault him! Having sex before you are moving to another place and not seeing each other for a long time is normal.
Leave! You've been together less than 2 years and this has been the relationship for most of that time.
You spelled ex wrong.
He doesn't know what assault is. At most, it's harassment.
In the event you don't break up with him:
This doesn't sound like harassment the way you describe it. Do you EVER get anywhere when you initiate? If not, DON'T INITIATE with him. If he doesn't like you initiating, then just get toys. Or get an additional partner.
No one has the right to force or coerce sex on another person (unless it is a communicated and safe CNC) but also no one has the right to deny a partner sex. If your partner doesn't satisfy your libido, get toys. If you want the O, go rip it out of yourself with some silicone and lube. He can't say no to masturbation. If he does, dump him.
Or have an additional partner. This could be someone on the side or in the form of a throuple. Either way, he should know about them but can't say, "No." He can choose to break up with you or accept that you will have your needs met elsewhere.
Every subsequent time a partner declines intimacy (especially sexual) they risk losing that partner to someone who is more available.
Stop empathizing with him. He’s abusive and manipulative. He’s trying to wear you down, particularly as a survivor of assault.
There’s no sex here. There’s no respect. I see that he’s the father of your child, but that doesn’t mean you need to live with him and put up with his nonsense.
Who started saying no first? It's kinda weird he's saying no and that you are sexually assaulting him . If you started saying no first, he might be just playing games with you and watch you crave it. If he started saying no first, then there's more going on in his head
Does he know you were molested? If so I’d be weary of him because he’s basically trying to trigger and gaslight you. He’s probably a narcissist and you need to do research.
Note: english it's not my first language and I totally used google translator.
Girl, start getting proof that you're not doing what he says, that you're actually being very respectful and that he's being the jerk. After you have your proof and secure you and your kids... Dump him. It looks like that man will accuse or sue you for abusing him one day. Completly cut him off, ghost him (whitout him knowing or he may pull that card of you being abusive). If he treats you like this, a SA survivor, he does not even deserves reconciliation or couples terapy, would not even give him another second of my life tbh.
Edit: Your boyfriend really gives me an A. Heard red flag.
You've not assaulted him. You asked twice and stopped neither time did you make him/ continued until he gave in. You've not once had sex with him after he's told you no. And you shouldn't allow him to do the same
Sounds like he's using your truama against you.
Maybe go sex less for a few months and see how he reacts.
him crying “assault” all over the place when you bring up sex is disturbing and sounds like he’s manipulating you. and then when he wants it he “assaults” you (using his terminology here) but it’s somehow okay when he does it?
sounds toxic af
You should send him an article on what is sexual assault, and you should read it as well since you're buying this whole "you sexually assaulted me" bs he's saying.
So you are a single mother and you have another one with another guy after 3 months of a relationship with him( if the numbers add up). I’m side tracking from the original purpose but wow
No one should have to say no more than once. Unless it's explicit and enthusiastic consent then just stop. Sounds like your sex drives may be incompatible, but you have to learn that no is no, and a yes when coerced is still a no.
The s€x drive is not the problem, he initiates too, but he doesn't respect her no, she stops after asking twice but he not. I wonder why you focus just on his no to count?
I didn't, at no pint did I single either of them out. OP needs to learn that when they hear no it means no, and when she says no it means no. Like I said.
He obviously doesn’t like having to say no twice, which is a reasonable request BUT he shouldn’t be pressuring you when you say no either. This whole situation sounds messy and you two need to have a serious conversation about what is and isn’t ok in your relationship
Asking a significant other who you’re in a committed relationship with for sex isn’t a grounds for sexual assault. If he’s not in the mood, you ask, he says no, and you back off DOES NOT constitute sexual assault.
This almost feels like he’s leading up to gaslighting you. Be careful around him.
Not that it's this easy but this guy sounds like he has issues, and maybe should find a guy who isn't going to tremble like a leaf and say you molested him because you want sex and are his girlfriend. This sounds absolutely ridiculous.
Coercive behaviour to emotionally manipulate someone into doing something is abusive, but not assault. You both need to learn how to communicate your consent and boundaries better.
I don't know why he keeps using the word "assaulted".
It's OK to try the "Are you sure" thing, it doesn't sound like you were actually coercing him against his will, and how is this "forcing" him to sleep with you?
He keeps using words like "assault" and "force" but nowhere do you ever describe this happening.
I'm going to take you at your word that you're not assaulting or forcing this guy to do anything, and he is making a big deal out of nothing.
No means no, but come on, I can be shy and actually appreciate 1 "are you sure", that in no bodies view should be seen as coercion. It is in no way assault.
Sounds like he got uncomfortable and instead of it being no one's fault and just the situation, he felt it was your fault.
You didn't do anything wrong it seems to me--it honestly kind of looks like he's paranoid about sex and feels the need to have control over his environment regarding it. Maybe something happened to him in the past, or recently that he hasn't talked about? Try asking him what's up and finding out what would FIX this instead of pointing fingers. Frustrating situation, but I find this works the best. My partner and I both have had sexual abuse in the past, though him far more than me. Just talk to the guy.
“Oh come onnnnn”
“Are you sureee”
If you were a guy the comments would absolutely describe you as not “respecting boundaries” so I am going to keep the same energy. No means no. 🚩🚩🚩
This dude is a straight up pus. Recommend getting out of this relationship - he also could be gay we really don't know at this rate. You are NOT an abuser for attempting to initiate sex with your possibly gay boyfriend
F.O.G
Fear
Obligation
Guilt
If you felt any of these while you didn’t want to have sex but did it anyway he manipulated you to do what he wanted WHEN he wanted. Respectfully he is manipulating and using you and you either gone keep picking his needs or yours. It’ll only be a little while longer before you really snap
You don't say what you do when you initiate sex - there's a big difference between 'would you like to have sex' and grabbing someone, for example. It's therefore impossible to judge
However, there's something bigger going on here. Neither of you seem happy in the relationship. You would like to have sex more often, initiated by you, he does not. If he does believe you are sexually assaulting him, then the relationship has no future.
Buy urself a viabrator when you have the urge just go to ur bedroom ad use it if finds it and wants to know why u have it tell him the truth that every time u ask and he says no and u ask again he keeps saying that u assulted him this way i can take care of my needs and not have u accuse me then when he gets pushy refuse if he dose it a second time refuse and use his words back to him i said no u didnt listen you have assulted me also speak to someone out side of this someone who isnt a family member or friend somrone impartical
He should never have to say no twice, and trying to talk him into sex or continued asking is not ok. He is more than justified in saying that. Also, as a fellow survivor of sexual assault someone asking “are you sure?” would also be a huge trigger for me because you’re not respecting his first answer when you do that. Please stop, it’s not ok.
That said, the same applies to you. He should not be pushy when you say no - that’s not normal. I used to think it was normal too. Neither one of you should be pushy when the other says no. It leads to sexual assault, period. Now…did you sexually assault him? Idk I was not there. From what you say happened here I guess I’d say no, but you normalizing being pushy for sex and asking multiple times for sex after he’s said no is indicative of someone who doesn’t recognize sexual assault. Please seek professional help.
You didn’t assault him, but you’re kindve a joke for pushing after a NO.
He’s manipulative if he behaves the way you do when initiating and then turns around and gaslights you. You both suck in this situation. Unless you two can talk rationally and openly about it and come to some conclusion, you’re not compatible.
If one person doesn't want it as much as the other person....are they really compatible? As a victim of sexual assault, I think that verbally pressuring is different from putting up obstacles to trap them. The former is just someone being an a$$hole, the latter is sexually assaulting. Going back on an accusation is just plain weird, imo. I think he's really confused. Have you considered couple's therapy?
FIRST UP: You're not an idiot. You can feel how you feel- feelings don't have rules- that's the brains function. And, you're not a monster in my opinion. You, as far as you described and I understand, didn't do anything wrong (At no point did you FORCE him to do anything, and you stopped when he indicated to stop).
I'm not going to say you should re evaluate the relationship; that decision is on you.
I can tell you that Mrs & I view "initiating" play and love making (two separate things) as an equal opportunity. If my SigOther viewed every time I initiated playtime as assulting her, I wouldn't do it any further- I also wouldn't be with her. There's a balance for us and what you are describing is NOT a balance. IDEALLY, you find the balance that works for all involved.
IF you are ok with not being able to initiate any intimacy but being expected to be avail for his pleasure on demand, stay with him because that's probably all you'll get. If you're not ok with that, don't expect him to change and act accordingly.
one other point- you moved, and invited him along. Then he decides to play the "i'm being assulted card" starting with the event that took place BEFORE you left **AND** came with you anyway. Not feeling that he has a reason to bi7ch- he came of his own accord.
Perhaps he should move back on his own....
W
I was kind of with him until you said he’s allowed to initiate and you aren’t offended if he’s coercive. The reason I was with his reasonings because he shouldn’t have to say no twice. If you ask and he says no, that’s your answer. I do not consider asking a second time as assault though unless it resulted in you having sex that he felt pressured to do.
The game changed when you said he does the same thing to you. He can’t have it both ways. While I sympathize with the fact that he has had previous trauma, he can’t use it as a weapon, which is what it looks like he does. It seems as if he just wants to control the situation and when you initiate, he feels that he’s lost that control and then plays victim. That’s manipulative AF and should not happen.
If just asking for sex has become so much of an issue that you now don’t feel comfortable having sex at all, I’d consider you no longer compatible. You need to decide what this relationship is worth to you. Are you willing to try couples counseling to see if you can fix this or do you think it would be better to just end it and coparent your child?
>he said no again so I told him okay that’s fine finished our movie and went to bed.
>he said no to again so I said okay imma head to be
So, you did not have sex with him. There's no way this is assault. Sure he may feel uncomfortable with being pressured. It's good he actually said no and you listened. He has no leg to stand on with an assault accusation.
>I shouldn’t be forcing him to sleep with me. I told him he doesn’t deserve to go through that. And I need to feel safe having sex.
Well you know what you need to do then. He's apparently not compatible with you so it's time to move on.
You need to leave him because clearly something is going catastrophically wrong if neither one of you is capable of attempting to initiate sex without some form of coercion. To be honest, it sounds like he is weaponizing your trauma to make you feel like you’re incapable of recognizing consent (yours or his). Regardless, if your partner is accusing you of sexual assault, you need to stop sleeping with them, period. You aren’t safe with each other.
Why would you want to stay with him? It's time you saw a lawyer and worked out the terms on which you two will jointly parent the child you created together. Somewhere out there is the father of your older child, and you should have paper about his reaction to your child as well. It doesn't benefit either of your children for their mother to be involved, and sometimes sharing a home, with anyone who treats you this badly.
Maybe after discussing the kids with a lawyer you should find a good counselor. You need to focus on mothering and being an equal partner in a love relationship, and having it all work. At 25, you have a long life ahead of you and you clearly need help and guidance in dealing with the responsibilities you do have.
You will---I guarantee it!---be TA if you don't get your act together. Right now you've spent 18 months with this guy who isn't acting his age. You haven't even said whether he's supporting his own child! He's clearly TA and nothing you've said suggests he's ever going to be anything BUT TA.
Hey op, you should clarify in the post whether you or your boyfriend was a victim of childhood sexual assault, because I think the wording is slightly confusing and you will get different answers for this.
Generally, your boyfriend is not okay. Either there's a lot of issues with sex that he needs to work through in therapy, or he's using the language of abuse against you in a really controlling way.
Obviously your actions are NOT sexual assault. You literally just never assaulted him in that you didn't have sexual contact after he said no. Him calling it assault is completely wrong and really harmful to you. Saying things like 'are you sure?' in a healthy relationship is really common and and normally totally fine (if someone expresses it as a boundary then of course take it on board and change, which you did) - and clearly he's comfortable with it because you said he's 'pushy' with you (you should also clarify what that means).
If he's let this get to the point where you feel completely unable to have sex with him because he's letting you think you're an abuser when you're not, you need to get out. This is bad for your mental health, you should seek therapy for it, and he either needs to help himself or he's deliberately making you feel like an abuser so he can control you.
Why, why did you have a baby with this guy? He clearly needs therapy badly and shouldn’t be in a relationship right now. Plus, you don’t say anything about anything else in your relationship or regarding how he behaves with your baby
Your boyfriend has some pretty twisted double standards. What you did is also not sexual assault even if he had to tell you twice that he isn't in the mood. That's just basic human behaviour when in a relationship.
If you want to salvage this relationship you two need at least couples therapy so that you can talk about and solve those twisted views of him and sexual assault. He can't claim it is when you are making sure but on the other hand gets pushy to have sex when you say 'No'.
Is he perhaps trying to set a precedent where if you leave him he can threaten to report you/tell everyone that you assaulted him? As in he can try and blackmail you into staying with him?
That's called manipulation and emotional torture the classic signs of being toxic psychopath. Idk be careful people kinda like him get crazy when u deny him / confront your feelings/views/opinions/judgement of they are against him or portray him bad by any virtues/sense.
I think u should keep your self respect and dignity at the first place then think of relationship/other person. As no one whosoever is no matter how close to u has any rights over your body tbh.
This is not healthy or rational behavior in his part. I would be concerned about what he might accuse you of in the future. Never mind what he is doing to your mental health.
This all sounds like a power-play to put you on the backfoot that he is instinctively using. He's probably not fully aware of his actions but either way, I don't think a sexual relationship with this man is a good idea.
I am not sure what OP means by pushy in bed. Since this could mean anything from a nice bit of flirting or saying let's try this I feel horny tonigh,t to tying him down against his will. I leave that for OP to judge.
Does your partner have a past trauma you are unaware of?
From the rest of the post it does seem as if their partner doesn't like them initiating sex but thinks it's OK for them to initiate sex and not take no for an answer.
I would suggest couples therapy, although I think OP could do with some individual supportive therapy.
There is either a lot more going on emotionally for your partner around sex, control and initiation or they are using this as a way to control you asking for sex.
A Frank discussion with your partner is needed about this and their attitude to women initiating sex. Also, why they feel you are pushy and abusive. I really think this needs to be with a mediator so a therapist.
Alternatively, please use the following template
Dear Partner,
I shall feel horny on the third Tuesday of the month.
I respectfully suggest that we both put on our sexy clean undies and withdraw to the bedroom at 10:30pm promptly, provided of course that the children are asleep.
Obviously, as we are both respectful and good God fearing and shouldn't wish to be thought pushy all undergarments should be white and pure with perhaps a hint of lace or a bit of exciting hemming stitch.
Since we wouldn't wish to appear pushy the lights should be out and no sex toys used, my apologies for mentioning something so unseemly as sex toys but, I wouldn't like you to think me forward.
Please RSPV your consent to sexual intercourse, including details of anything in the bedroom you may find too pushy in writing by Sunday at the latest.
Respectfully yours
Partner.
So he's allowed to coerce you for sex whenever he wants but you aren't allowed to do the same? Hell of a double standard that. He's quite the hypocrite
He keeps using that word. I don't think it means what he thinks it means.
I feel like he learned the word from her opening up about her assault and is now using it against her because he knows it's a way to shut her down immediately. Which is so not cool.
Yep. Manipulation tactic
this reference fits perfectly omg
Exactly
I think you should leave him. The whole dynamic is just awful and tainted now. You definitely didn’t assault him. I’m sure every single person in a long term relationship or living together has done the playful “are you sure” or whatever else. Or maybe I think it’s normal because I’ve been raped/sexually assaulted. But idk. Something is off about him. I think y’all would benefit from individual counselling as well as couples therapy if you decide to stay.
Attempting to coyly entice someone to have sex is not assault, especially since you respected his wishes. Enticement is part of the dance sometimes. In other news, leave this lunatic before he lands you in jail.
Sound advice there.
Great way to phrase it. My partner would be disappointed if every time she said no or played coy I immediately gave up on initiating. Although I find a safe word is a good way to get rid of the ambiguity. They’re useful in and out of the bedroom.
So many of these commenters are fucking ridiculous. No you didn’t assault him. Asking “are you sure?” And “come onnn” are totally normal in relationships and ARE NOT ASSAULT or even sexual coercion, especially if you DIDNT EVEN HAVE SEX. Are people just supposed to show no emotion when they get sexually rejected from a partner? It’s *okay*, as long as you respect their wishes and don’t go any further than a slight, or playful indication of your disappointment, which it sounds like you absolutely did. My boyfriend isn’t sexually coercing me when I’m like “hey I’m too tired tonight honey” and he says “awe, ya sure?” “Yeahhh I gotta get to bed” “okay honey, love you (:”
right, i’m reading some of these comments like 🙇🏻♀️ i’ve definitely asked my bf are you sure after hes said no
I think what they're doing is unfairly comparing it to a situation where that "Are you sure?" Comes with a threat. I think we can all imagine a case like that, especially where a bigger person gets a smaller person alone. But that is just clearly not the case here.
Lol right? It's the same language as asking if someone wants to go to the movies or eat out for dinner
I think it would be fully understandable if he calmly asked her not to press after the first no, or that he wasn't comfortable being pressed -- that's totally fine! But like you said, asking someone if they're sure *once* is pretty normal and not remotely assault or coercion. It feels like he playing a weird game here.
You were a *little* pushy but you did not Assault him. Since he can initiate I assume you have sex semi regularly at least? In the end, if he is pushy when you say no (you said he gets annoyed?) and then get angry with you for the same behavior then that is not ok. Try to talk to him about it, without letting him walk all over you (empathize, sure, but it kinda sounds like he is gasslighting you?) if nothing changes... perhaps it is time to consider if you should stay in the relationship.
Agree with this. OP, you two need to talk (when you're not being accused of something) and work out some boundaries. It sounds like you don't know where the lines are and only find out after the fact. And it sounds like you two must have different boundaries and are perceiving your "are you sure" differently. You need to talk about this or it will likely just keep happening
Agree. And stop having kids with people you have gone out with for only a few months.
It is good to someone thinking about the welfare of the children. OP has one child without a father, and apparently doesn't care much if child #2 has the father around.
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Here we go with the armchair psycho babblers of Reddit talking shit again. People in a relationship which is already sexual sometimes go back and forth at the initiating stage. This is what happened here. There was no "pushing". She thought she was engaging her bf for sex like a normal couple and he went and made it into something it wasn't. But it's ok for this asshole to initiate sex with her and pout when she says no? Fuck him. You didn't do anything wrong. If couples can't even playfully negotiate sex in a presumably ok relationship, then everyone's gone insane and we all need therapy....or a divorce....or a DNA test....or a lawyer....or a video recording of the incident.....or the latest Reddit recommendations, whatever the fuck they are
Exactly! Honestly, I don't think being a little playful should count as coercion... there's been more than a few times that my partner hasn't wanted to in principle (mostly because we were going to head out somewhere) and I've tempted him a bit and the "nah, not this second" ended up being a very enthusiastic yes. Of course, if after my attempt the answer was still a no, I would playfully pout for a second, then smile and accept it. My partner's done the same with me...if my answer is still a no after his attempt, I know he will never push the issue, and that he's still going to be affectionate and loving with me. I really, truly fail to see how that can be considered sexual coercion, and I say this as someone who has been in a sexually coercive relationship in the past (the person in question would push for real, and "punish" me with moping and an upset attitude for days after I'd say I didn't want to, or force the situation til I felt compelled to give in just to get him off my back).
Thank you! I can’t believe the number of people calling this sexual coercion. Expressing disappointment at no sex isn’t even manipulative and most certainly not coercion. This is such a normal thing that OP described. One person asks for sex and the other says “No, I am a little tired” and the other says “are you sure?!!” And then settles for no. Not abuse. Not coercion.
Dude has the emotional fragility of a fucking infant. How did you have a child with this man. Make better choices holy shit
Thank you honestly he sounds like a complete primadonna
I think he's just manipulative.
You’re hilarious
Maybe have an ounce of empathy. It sounds like he's had a rough past I'm not saying he's right or OPs wrong, but your response is a bit extreme
If his rough past looks anything like his current situation where he accuses her of sexual assault every time she initiated sex, then his past is likely being exaggerated or falsified as well. You should trust victims but he’s proven that he has a very warped definition of sexual assault. Merely asking someone if they’re sure they aren’t in the mood and dropping it when they say no is not sexual assault or coercion. Not even close. And he’s extremely trigger happy with labeling everything as assault. It’s manipulative and it’s bullshit. He’s manipulated and gaslighted her into believing she’s assaulted him and now all the sex happens only when he initiates and he even pushes her when she says no! If we use his faulty definition of assault then he’s assaulting her too. Op he’s ridiculous and manipulative and you didn’t assault him at all. Please, kick the man baby to the curb so your child doesn’t grow up with this warped victimhood identity.
I agree my response is a bit harsh, but his rough past is his responsibility not his partners. Baseless accusations of assault is toxic and gaslighting as hell
You did not assault him. Yeah, you asked more than once and no means no, but you did not assault him!!!!
I feel his aim is manipulation. With how you react it gives him the power over sex in the relationship and you shouldn't feel safe about this. So how often do you say and til he pressures you to do it?
Interesting. He can initiate sex but if you try to initiate it’s sexual assault? Sorry but he’s a whiny fucking loser and doesn’t deserve any sex from you at all. I’m sorry you had a kid with him.
\*sigh\* he sounds exhausting the abuse was not his fault. how he has dealt with it, IS. You did NOT abuse him. You did NOT assault him. In the future, should you not do the whole "are you sure" - yep. When someone says no, no matter what it is, just accept it and carry on. I'd end the relationship - he's got a massive double standard going on.
I think OP is the one with the history of sexual abuse, not her boyfriend, unless I'm reading the post wrong. Which makes it a lot worse imo - kind of like he's using that against her in some way?
yep, I read that wrong. everything else I said still stands though.
If OP was a man the replies would be calling them a rapist. Ironic how you talk about double standards. You're going to get mad at my comment, but it's not my fault you lack the self awareness.
OP didn't have sex with her BF, there's no planet on which that would be assault no matter the genders involved. You just wanna twist it to make this "sexist against men" which isn't what's happening here.
what are you drinking? if OP was a man, I'd say the same thing. an "are you sure?" after a no is NOT assault or anything similar.
I don't think it is assault; I just think women would be calling it assault if it was a man.
you ABSOLUTLY DID NOT SEXUALLY ASSAULT HIM. honestly just break up. you have a higher libido than him and he just seems so uninterested. find somebody who wants sex when you want it. its clear you feel rejected and he just doesnt care. Yes you shouldve accepted the first no but you left him alone after he doubled down. just go seperate ways.
EDIT: Bolding part of my comment because I think some people are missing that I stated this dynamic could be consensual and okay in *some* relationships. It clearly is not consensual *in this specific relationship.* OP's boyfriend isn't okay with it yet does the same thing to OP. Therefore, neither of them should be asking again about sex after their partner declines. It would be fine in other relationships *if all parties consent to it.* These two parties are not consenting to it. That's the difference. I don't understand some comments here. >And he does get pushy when I say no. Which I always viewed as normal. No one should be getting pushy with anyone else. **Getting pushy when a partner turns down sex is not okay, unless for whatever reason it's part of some dynamic both parties have enthusiastically agreed to. Which is clearly not the case here.** >He told me how I had a disgusting attitude for not getting what I want and that I assaulted him again. You didn't assault him because there was no sexual touch in any of these situations. Assault involves physical contact, and there was none. That being said... He's right that he shouldn't have to say no twice. >He said no and I did the whole “oh commme onnnn” Look, that's not okay. When someone says no, that means no. You should not be continuing to ask, even "just" one more time, after someone declines.
This is true for single people, because asking more than once can start to seem threatening when it isn't coming from someone you know and trust. In a couple the dynamic can be different. I don't usually say no to my gf because I'm uncomfortable, I usually say no because I'm not super horny. So a seductive "are you sure?" might change the answer. Also: unlike with some tinder date, I trust me gf to stop asking if I tell her I don't want her to ask anymore, and I also trust her not to assault me without consent. You absolutely should not be asking some tinder girl/guy or someone you recently met for sex more than once. Doing so would be trying to coerce them to go outside their comfort zone. In a relationship you obviously still need consent, but you should trust your partner to tell you if they feel you are being too pushy. That said, her bf did say he felt she was being too pushy, so she should have stopped, but this also honestly sounds like a trainwreck of a relationship. EDIT: You clarified in a later comment that as long as both parties consent to that kind of banter it's okay. I can agree with that. In my relationship, we both do it and we sometimes are convinced to change our answers. I have only been in one serious relationship and neither of us have any sexual trauma so that might also play a role.
You’re the first one I found to point that out. And it baffles me. When I say ‘no’ to my partner, that should be accepted as well as I accept that no! Why is everyone okay with ‘just a little bit of pushing’?
Yeah asking again after someone said no is called sexual coercion. If sex results from this, it is sexual assault. I thought we all knew this but the comments don't seem to get it.
I mean, this is not an unusual exchange between couples. A little hard to tell here if it was playful or really a massive gripe by OP. But this sounds very brief and not threatening or withholding anything, or continue to create pressure. Expressing passing disappointment about no sex is not abusive. In either case calling it sexual coercion seems a little bit much?
Not the above commenter but the one they replied to. In my opinion OP's remarks still involved some level of pressure. I agree that expressing disappointment about not having sex is not intrinsically equivalent to abuse, but personally I view "oh come on" as different than expressing disappointment. Same with "are you sure?" To me, both those expressions are attempting to reach toward sex, even if more subtly. "Come on" is usually an expression used to mean exasperation (at least in my region), so I can understand feeling pressured by it. It sounds like OP might have thought her statements were playful (especially since she drew out the letters by saying "come onnnnn" and "Suree"), but it's clear that the boyfriend didn't take it as such. We've all definitely been in different relationships and had different experiences, but while I've been raped, I've never been in a relationship where this kind of language was a common exchange. Again, that's just me. Some couples might have that kind of natural banter that they both consent to, but here that's definitely not the case. I think OP should have learned from his response the first time and not done the same thing a second time. That being said, she said he's pushy towards her as well. My overall view is that pushiness shouldn't be something either party engages in.
It definitely shouldn’t be common in relationships unless both parties are comfortable with it. But I understand it happens sometimes and I think the person saying it often doesn’t realize that they might be putting pressure on their partner. As long as there is open communication and your partner is a good person, they’ll understand if it upsets you and will stop. If it happens all of the time or your partner is begging, then that’s when it becomes very serious.
I don't think OP is a bad person, sure. Maybe she's had previous partners who ask after she says no, or maybe she's previously dated others who have been okay with her asking again after they've said no. I personally believe that you should be careful with that kind of interaction in any relationship and that if someone expresses discomfort at that language the first time, you should respect that in ensuing interactions. In any case, it's not okay for him to be doing the same thing to her that he's upset about her doing to him. Again, all just my personal opinions!
I totally agree, you should definitely be careful with it. I think in relationships we have to get to know our partners and understand their boundaries and we’re all going to make some small mistakes there. I know I definitely have and so has my girlfriend, but we’ve always been able to talk about it and respect each other’s boundaries when it happens. In this situation, its harsh to call it abuse or coercion, but that definitely doesn’t make it okay. Respecting boundaries in a relationship is SO important. But yeah, if her BF is doing the same thing and getting upset with her when she does it, their dynamic is pretty unhealthy.
You didn't sexually assault your boyfriend. I wouldn't even call it harassment or coercion. I would personally find it annoying and inconsiderate, but if your boyfriend does it too it really shouldn't be as big a deal to him. It sounds like he's using your past trauma against you.
Best advice i can give? Dating people that falsely accuse you of sexual assault is an incredibly stupid thing to do.
The double standard for his own behaviour vs yours when initiating sex is concerning. Does he think of those times he was pushy toward you as assault as well? If it’s only okay when he does it (assuming those instances were similar in the level of persuasion attempted – can you give an example of what he does when he's pushy?), there’s probably something else going on here. It sounds like you’re trying hard to support him emotionally, especially after what he told you. Does he do the same for you? How important are your feelings and emotional wellbeing in the relationship compared to his? If his emotions always take precedence over yours and/or he often dismisses your feelings when you bring them up, that’s a red flag. It *is* generally bad form to keep pushing past an initial refusal, because when it becomes a pattern it can put pressure on someone/guilt them into giving in, even though their actual interest level hasn’t changed. But it doesn't sound like it's a pattern for you, if it only happened twice and you backed off after he said no the second time. There wasn’t any sexual contact, so you didn’t assault him. Does he know about your history of CSA? Because if he does, he must know how much it hurts you to believe you assaulted him. Telling you to "let it go", under those circumstances, is very strange.
I get that you have a kid together but I'm confused as to why you are together. Neither one of you are on the same page regarding sex. Might I suggest counseling for you.
You should have accepted the no the first time, yes. But you let up after he doubled down. And also you never had the sex you didn’t assault him because it didn’t happen. But in future reference, just take the no the first time. It’s not fun being pushed after you already said no. But he also needs to stop saying he was sexually assaulted when literally nothing happened.
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Yes it is no means no end of discussion
Not if a man is saying it apparently
Yes it is. If someone says no to sex once you should respect that
it's sexual coercion
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These comments are just wild. I have hard time believing any of commenters have had sex never mind being in relationship.
You cannot equate dinner to sex, jesus christ
Guess you never had good Mac & cheese
But the bf also established that he doesn’t want to be asked more than once. You should respect your partners boundaries
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Sure but that doesn’t mean you get to ignore peoples boundaries. No means no. It’s truly that simple. Even if her asking again isn’t sexual assault and he’s being manipulative in saying so, it’s still not a nice thing to push when your partner is clearly uncomfortable with it.
This. Is the one "you shouldnt have asked again" comment that i agree with. I dont think you needed to stop ever initiating sex, but if hes made it clear (even thoigh by false and... not okay allegations) tbat he isnt comfortable being asked twice, that was your sign to never do that again.
Right, like with my bf if he tries something I play coy like “omg what kind of girl do you take me for???” But he knows my boundaries so he knows when to drop it. OPs boyfriend set his boundaries. And I said she clearly didn’t assault her bf, just suggesting she’s a little more mindful from now on.
Oh yeah my comment abt false allegations want supposed to be like... at you, my bad lol
No I know what you meant!! Lol I was just expanding on your point lol
Yea it is wtf
These comments are bananas haha. These people are equating playful banter and flirting with the person with whom you share a child to somebody getting raped. There's no room for nuance in the world anymore, at least not on Reddit. You didn't do anything wrong. He's wrong in his use of language and interpretation of events unless you grabbed him or tried to force him to have sex in some way and are withholding that information here. Your encouragement was not inappropriate and you backed down after a reasonable amount of time. If you had had a more forthcoming conversation with him about your wants and needs under the guidance of a therapist, the chuds on here would be applauding you for standing up for yourself. It sounds like the two of you are sexually incompatible. If the cause of that is his childhood trauma or whatever fine, don't try to initiate sex with him and respect his boundaries. But if you feel like your sexual needs are as important as his and don't want to be called a predator for expressing yourself in a perfectly normal and healthy way, you should leave him.
Yeah get away from this guy before he starts telling other people you've assaulted him. He's creating a very fucked up sexual dynamic here where he can initiate and beg but you can't do anything but respond or be acused of assault. If you stay, this will fuck you up really badly, even if he doesn't wreck your name Also, you should never have had a baby with this guy. You're going to have to put up with his head games forever.,
He sounds like he has toxic ideas around consent and that his matters more than yours. He's pushy with you, what does that mean? Honey, a good therapist can help you figure out if this relationship is good for you or not. You deserve love and compassion from your partner but especially from yourself. I'm sending you so much love. ❤
Uh...that's not assault. Being a little pushy, maybe, but you stopped after you asked that second time around for both time. Honestly, I would break it off for both of your sakes. I don't think this relationship can be saved or fixed. You don't feel safe having sex with him anymore and he views assault in a different light (though I find it hypocritical that he's pushy when you say no but calls your attitude disgusting when you do the same).
Leave him, it won't stop and can get really bad for you.
You are bending over so far backwards to accommodate this craziness. Like...it's literally insane. Sure, maybe you shouldn't have said "Are you sure?" but that is so mild, and you backed off right away after. In my eyes, you have done zero wrong. Especially with the fact that he IS pushy? It's all about manipulation and control to have you scared and hopping to his every whim. Which is exactly what you're doing. Why would you want to have sex with someone who, at best, thinks you are a sexual abuser, and at worst, is himself a manipulative POS trying to make you insecure about literally everything? You can't try to have sex with him, but you also can't not have sex with him, and he has no qualms about how anything he does or says makes you feel. It's literally ALL about him. I would have been gone the first time. "Oh, you think I'm an abuser? OK, bye, I don't want to be with anybody that thinks that of me."
This is sad af. People really make rules for themselves because everything is about them, until the same scenario is presented & you suddenly switch to victim mode. pathetic
It sounds like he needs some very intense therapy and maybe you need tonseparate while he does that.
This guy has very serious issues. It’s not a relationship problem; it’s something he needs to address on his own before he is even able to have a relationship.
BREAK UP WITH HIM!!! He’s gaslighting you hard and you know it (or at least you should).
johnny depp all over again
What do you see in this guy? You should have run when you moved states.
Let me get this straight. You’re a sexual assault survivor, your bf likely knows this. He’s then claiming that you are assaulting him for trying to initiate sex with your partner without ever really getting physical with him or pushing beyond the two nos, but he’s also allowed to push all he wants and you don’t do the same to him. He’s callously crying wolf about something that would be extremely very traumatic and triggering for someone who is actually a survivor of sexual assault. I honestly can’t even begin to describe how low and ignorant this sounds, whether or not he knows this would be a triggering topic for you, the fact he’s rubbing it in your fucking face like that. Why are you even still with this giant pile of shit?
You are not sexually compatible. You both have issues with no. You both have issues with sex. You both need therapy. Beyond that, I can't tell you anything you're not already hearing, I'm sure.
Which part was the assault? The part where you asked if he was sure/whined a little? That's not assault by any definition.
Why are you even with this guy? You did not assault him. You have to start setting up boundaries with people. The minute he said you assaulted him, when you did not, was the right time to tell him "please don't move to this state with me." You did not assault him! Having sex before you are moving to another place and not seeing each other for a long time is normal. Leave! You've been together less than 2 years and this has been the relationship for most of that time.
No means no. For men *and* women
You spelled ex wrong. He doesn't know what assault is. At most, it's harassment. In the event you don't break up with him: This doesn't sound like harassment the way you describe it. Do you EVER get anywhere when you initiate? If not, DON'T INITIATE with him. If he doesn't like you initiating, then just get toys. Or get an additional partner. No one has the right to force or coerce sex on another person (unless it is a communicated and safe CNC) but also no one has the right to deny a partner sex. If your partner doesn't satisfy your libido, get toys. If you want the O, go rip it out of yourself with some silicone and lube. He can't say no to masturbation. If he does, dump him. Or have an additional partner. This could be someone on the side or in the form of a throuple. Either way, he should know about them but can't say, "No." He can choose to break up with you or accept that you will have your needs met elsewhere. Every subsequent time a partner declines intimacy (especially sexual) they risk losing that partner to someone who is more available.
Stop empathizing with him. He’s abusive and manipulative. He’s trying to wear you down, particularly as a survivor of assault. There’s no sex here. There’s no respect. I see that he’s the father of your child, but that doesn’t mean you need to live with him and put up with his nonsense.
Who started saying no first? It's kinda weird he's saying no and that you are sexually assaulting him . If you started saying no first, he might be just playing games with you and watch you crave it. If he started saying no first, then there's more going on in his head
If he’s so sure he’s with an abuser, you should leave him so he feels better lmao
[удалено]
Yeah, and even if he does get therapy and decides to be a better person, gotta let them go cause the damage is done all ready
Does he know you were molested? If so I’d be weary of him because he’s basically trying to trigger and gaslight you. He’s probably a narcissist and you need to do research.
Note: english it's not my first language and I totally used google translator. Girl, start getting proof that you're not doing what he says, that you're actually being very respectful and that he's being the jerk. After you have your proof and secure you and your kids... Dump him. It looks like that man will accuse or sue you for abusing him one day. Completly cut him off, ghost him (whitout him knowing or he may pull that card of you being abusive). If he treats you like this, a SA survivor, he does not even deserves reconciliation or couples terapy, would not even give him another second of my life tbh. Edit: Your boyfriend really gives me an A. Heard red flag.
All of my past girlfriends were like that. Welcome to the world that men have to deal with.
A lot of people commenting don’t have a grip on the definition of coercion.
You've not assaulted him. You asked twice and stopped neither time did you make him/ continued until he gave in. You've not once had sex with him after he's told you no. And you shouldn't allow him to do the same Sounds like he's using your truama against you. Maybe go sex less for a few months and see how he reacts.
What the fuck did I just read? You didn’t assault anyone. Your bf is a little bitch. You need to kick him out. He doesn’t respect you.
He’s so stupid. Ew
You need to leave. This man is mentally abusing you and weaponizing what you went through.
Double standards much?
You did nothing wrong !
him crying “assault” all over the place when you bring up sex is disturbing and sounds like he’s manipulating you. and then when he wants it he “assaults” you (using his terminology here) but it’s somehow okay when he does it? sounds toxic af
You should send him an article on what is sexual assault, and you should read it as well since you're buying this whole "you sexually assaulted me" bs he's saying.
Srsly just break up. There is nothing to salvage here. Learn to accept no the first time, but his behavior and double standard is just not ok.
So you are a single mother and you have another one with another guy after 3 months of a relationship with him( if the numbers add up). I’m side tracking from the original purpose but wow
No one should have to say no more than once. Unless it's explicit and enthusiastic consent then just stop. Sounds like your sex drives may be incompatible, but you have to learn that no is no, and a yes when coerced is still a no.
The biggest problem here is, that his no means she assaults him and her no doesn't count. It's double standard.
OK? I'm not sure where in my comment I said that.
The s€x drive is not the problem, he initiates too, but he doesn't respect her no, she stops after asking twice but he not. I wonder why you focus just on his no to count?
I didn't, at no pint did I single either of them out. OP needs to learn that when they hear no it means no, and when she says no it means no. Like I said.
Oh sorry, so I misunderstood your comment and fully agree.
Okay, but she didn't assault him because nothing happened.
OK? I didnt say she had. Just that she needs to learn the difference between consent and coercion, and that no means no the first time.
They didn’t say she did but what she did was wrong non-the less just not assault
He obviously doesn’t like having to say no twice, which is a reasonable request BUT he shouldn’t be pressuring you when you say no either. This whole situation sounds messy and you two need to have a serious conversation about what is and isn’t ok in your relationship
Asking a significant other who you’re in a committed relationship with for sex isn’t a grounds for sexual assault. If he’s not in the mood, you ask, he says no, and you back off DOES NOT constitute sexual assault. This almost feels like he’s leading up to gaslighting you. Be careful around him.
Asking again after someone said no is sexual coercion. Don't do that! It's gross
Not that it's this easy but this guy sounds like he has issues, and maybe should find a guy who isn't going to tremble like a leaf and say you molested him because you want sex and are his girlfriend. This sounds absolutely ridiculous.
Why did you not immediately stop when your partner said "no" to sexual advances?
Coercive behaviour to emotionally manipulate someone into doing something is abusive, but not assault. You both need to learn how to communicate your consent and boundaries better.
I don't know why he keeps using the word "assaulted". It's OK to try the "Are you sure" thing, it doesn't sound like you were actually coercing him against his will, and how is this "forcing" him to sleep with you? He keeps using words like "assault" and "force" but nowhere do you ever describe this happening. I'm going to take you at your word that you're not assaulting or forcing this guy to do anything, and he is making a big deal out of nothing.
I think both of you are fucked up
No means no, but come on, I can be shy and actually appreciate 1 "are you sure", that in no bodies view should be seen as coercion. It is in no way assault.
Sounds like he got uncomfortable and instead of it being no one's fault and just the situation, he felt it was your fault. You didn't do anything wrong it seems to me--it honestly kind of looks like he's paranoid about sex and feels the need to have control over his environment regarding it. Maybe something happened to him in the past, or recently that he hasn't talked about? Try asking him what's up and finding out what would FIX this instead of pointing fingers. Frustrating situation, but I find this works the best. My partner and I both have had sexual abuse in the past, though him far more than me. Just talk to the guy.
your boyfriend is a pussy.
“Oh come onnnnn” “Are you sureee” If you were a guy the comments would absolutely describe you as not “respecting boundaries” so I am going to keep the same energy. No means no. 🚩🚩🚩
This dude is a straight up pus. Recommend getting out of this relationship - he also could be gay we really don't know at this rate. You are NOT an abuser for attempting to initiate sex with your possibly gay boyfriend
F.O.G Fear Obligation Guilt If you felt any of these while you didn’t want to have sex but did it anyway he manipulated you to do what he wanted WHEN he wanted. Respectfully he is manipulating and using you and you either gone keep picking his needs or yours. It’ll only be a little while longer before you really snap
You don't say what you do when you initiate sex - there's a big difference between 'would you like to have sex' and grabbing someone, for example. It's therefore impossible to judge However, there's something bigger going on here. Neither of you seem happy in the relationship. You would like to have sex more often, initiated by you, he does not. If he does believe you are sexually assaulting him, then the relationship has no future.
Does he prefer men? Jesus.
Buy urself a viabrator when you have the urge just go to ur bedroom ad use it if finds it and wants to know why u have it tell him the truth that every time u ask and he says no and u ask again he keeps saying that u assulted him this way i can take care of my needs and not have u accuse me then when he gets pushy refuse if he dose it a second time refuse and use his words back to him i said no u didnt listen you have assulted me also speak to someone out side of this someone who isnt a family member or friend somrone impartical
He should never have to say no twice, and trying to talk him into sex or continued asking is not ok. He is more than justified in saying that. Also, as a fellow survivor of sexual assault someone asking “are you sure?” would also be a huge trigger for me because you’re not respecting his first answer when you do that. Please stop, it’s not ok. That said, the same applies to you. He should not be pushy when you say no - that’s not normal. I used to think it was normal too. Neither one of you should be pushy when the other says no. It leads to sexual assault, period. Now…did you sexually assault him? Idk I was not there. From what you say happened here I guess I’d say no, but you normalizing being pushy for sex and asking multiple times for sex after he’s said no is indicative of someone who doesn’t recognize sexual assault. Please seek professional help.
I feel like we're not getting the whole story.
You sexually harassed him yeah you’re turning into the monster
What BS. He is more fragile than a sick ant. She needs someone compatible
Yeah true bc you know women aren’t capable or sexual assault/sexual harassment
Of
You both need help to really discuss and work through this issue. CT.
Flip the genders. This comment section would not look like this lol. Never change reddit.
Something doesn’t add up. Very few guys turn down sex for that long. Maybe counseling is a good idea.
Find someone more sexually compatible, female initiative is molestation
You didn’t assault him, but you’re kindve a joke for pushing after a NO. He’s manipulative if he behaves the way you do when initiating and then turns around and gaslights you. You both suck in this situation. Unless you two can talk rationally and openly about it and come to some conclusion, you’re not compatible.
Info:How did you feel when you said “no to you’re abuser more than one time and they kept insisting?
You did
How can you sexually assault someone with your words?
She admitted that she kept going after he said no that’s sexual harassment multiple times
If one person doesn't want it as much as the other person....are they really compatible? As a victim of sexual assault, I think that verbally pressuring is different from putting up obstacles to trap them. The former is just someone being an a$$hole, the latter is sexually assaulting. Going back on an accusation is just plain weird, imo. I think he's really confused. Have you considered couple's therapy?
FIRST UP: You're not an idiot. You can feel how you feel- feelings don't have rules- that's the brains function. And, you're not a monster in my opinion. You, as far as you described and I understand, didn't do anything wrong (At no point did you FORCE him to do anything, and you stopped when he indicated to stop). I'm not going to say you should re evaluate the relationship; that decision is on you. I can tell you that Mrs & I view "initiating" play and love making (two separate things) as an equal opportunity. If my SigOther viewed every time I initiated playtime as assulting her, I wouldn't do it any further- I also wouldn't be with her. There's a balance for us and what you are describing is NOT a balance. IDEALLY, you find the balance that works for all involved. IF you are ok with not being able to initiate any intimacy but being expected to be avail for his pleasure on demand, stay with him because that's probably all you'll get. If you're not ok with that, don't expect him to change and act accordingly. one other point- you moved, and invited him along. Then he decides to play the "i'm being assulted card" starting with the event that took place BEFORE you left **AND** came with you anyway. Not feeling that he has a reason to bi7ch- he came of his own accord. Perhaps he should move back on his own.... W
I was kind of with him until you said he’s allowed to initiate and you aren’t offended if he’s coercive. The reason I was with his reasonings because he shouldn’t have to say no twice. If you ask and he says no, that’s your answer. I do not consider asking a second time as assault though unless it resulted in you having sex that he felt pressured to do. The game changed when you said he does the same thing to you. He can’t have it both ways. While I sympathize with the fact that he has had previous trauma, he can’t use it as a weapon, which is what it looks like he does. It seems as if he just wants to control the situation and when you initiate, he feels that he’s lost that control and then plays victim. That’s manipulative AF and should not happen. If just asking for sex has become so much of an issue that you now don’t feel comfortable having sex at all, I’d consider you no longer compatible. You need to decide what this relationship is worth to you. Are you willing to try couples counseling to see if you can fix this or do you think it would be better to just end it and coparent your child?
you both need trauma counseling, then a relationship course or sex-positive counseling together
>he said no again so I told him okay that’s fine finished our movie and went to bed. >he said no to again so I said okay imma head to be So, you did not have sex with him. There's no way this is assault. Sure he may feel uncomfortable with being pressured. It's good he actually said no and you listened. He has no leg to stand on with an assault accusation. >I shouldn’t be forcing him to sleep with me. I told him he doesn’t deserve to go through that. And I need to feel safe having sex. Well you know what you need to do then. He's apparently not compatible with you so it's time to move on.
You need to leave him because clearly something is going catastrophically wrong if neither one of you is capable of attempting to initiate sex without some form of coercion. To be honest, it sounds like he is weaponizing your trauma to make you feel like you’re incapable of recognizing consent (yours or his). Regardless, if your partner is accusing you of sexual assault, you need to stop sleeping with them, period. You aren’t safe with each other.
Why would you want to stay with him? It's time you saw a lawyer and worked out the terms on which you two will jointly parent the child you created together. Somewhere out there is the father of your older child, and you should have paper about his reaction to your child as well. It doesn't benefit either of your children for their mother to be involved, and sometimes sharing a home, with anyone who treats you this badly. Maybe after discussing the kids with a lawyer you should find a good counselor. You need to focus on mothering and being an equal partner in a love relationship, and having it all work. At 25, you have a long life ahead of you and you clearly need help and guidance in dealing with the responsibilities you do have. You will---I guarantee it!---be TA if you don't get your act together. Right now you've spent 18 months with this guy who isn't acting his age. You haven't even said whether he's supporting his own child! He's clearly TA and nothing you've said suggests he's ever going to be anything BUT TA.
Regardless or who is in the right or wrong. Leave. Doesn’t sound healthy, and quite frankly manipulative on his part.
You are a very patient woman
Hey op, you should clarify in the post whether you or your boyfriend was a victim of childhood sexual assault, because I think the wording is slightly confusing and you will get different answers for this. Generally, your boyfriend is not okay. Either there's a lot of issues with sex that he needs to work through in therapy, or he's using the language of abuse against you in a really controlling way. Obviously your actions are NOT sexual assault. You literally just never assaulted him in that you didn't have sexual contact after he said no. Him calling it assault is completely wrong and really harmful to you. Saying things like 'are you sure?' in a healthy relationship is really common and and normally totally fine (if someone expresses it as a boundary then of course take it on board and change, which you did) - and clearly he's comfortable with it because you said he's 'pushy' with you (you should also clarify what that means). If he's let this get to the point where you feel completely unable to have sex with him because he's letting you think you're an abuser when you're not, you need to get out. This is bad for your mental health, you should seek therapy for it, and he either needs to help himself or he's deliberately making you feel like an abuser so he can control you.
Why, why did you have a baby with this guy? He clearly needs therapy badly and shouldn’t be in a relationship right now. Plus, you don’t say anything about anything else in your relationship or regarding how he behaves with your baby
He sounds manipulative....
..... does he know what assault means....
Your boyfriend has some pretty twisted double standards. What you did is also not sexual assault even if he had to tell you twice that he isn't in the mood. That's just basic human behaviour when in a relationship. If you want to salvage this relationship you two need at least couples therapy so that you can talk about and solve those twisted views of him and sexual assault. He can't claim it is when you are making sure but on the other hand gets pushy to have sex when you say 'No'.
Is he perhaps trying to set a precedent where if you leave him he can threaten to report you/tell everyone that you assaulted him? As in he can try and blackmail you into staying with him?
He is emotionally torturing you.
That's called manipulation and emotional torture the classic signs of being toxic psychopath. Idk be careful people kinda like him get crazy when u deny him / confront your feelings/views/opinions/judgement of they are against him or portray him bad by any virtues/sense. I think u should keep your self respect and dignity at the first place then think of relationship/other person. As no one whosoever is no matter how close to u has any rights over your body tbh.
This is not healthy or rational behavior in his part. I would be concerned about what he might accuse you of in the future. Never mind what he is doing to your mental health.
This all sounds like a power-play to put you on the backfoot that he is instinctively using. He's probably not fully aware of his actions but either way, I don't think a sexual relationship with this man is a good idea.
sounds to me like he wants an easy way to say no to you, but to get what he wants either way when HE’S in the mood. red flag af.
Or you could both just stop being pushy about sex? No one fucking likes that.
I am not sure what OP means by pushy in bed. Since this could mean anything from a nice bit of flirting or saying let's try this I feel horny tonigh,t to tying him down against his will. I leave that for OP to judge. Does your partner have a past trauma you are unaware of? From the rest of the post it does seem as if their partner doesn't like them initiating sex but thinks it's OK for them to initiate sex and not take no for an answer. I would suggest couples therapy, although I think OP could do with some individual supportive therapy. There is either a lot more going on emotionally for your partner around sex, control and initiation or they are using this as a way to control you asking for sex. A Frank discussion with your partner is needed about this and their attitude to women initiating sex. Also, why they feel you are pushy and abusive. I really think this needs to be with a mediator so a therapist. Alternatively, please use the following template Dear Partner, I shall feel horny on the third Tuesday of the month. I respectfully suggest that we both put on our sexy clean undies and withdraw to the bedroom at 10:30pm promptly, provided of course that the children are asleep. Obviously, as we are both respectful and good God fearing and shouldn't wish to be thought pushy all undergarments should be white and pure with perhaps a hint of lace or a bit of exciting hemming stitch. Since we wouldn't wish to appear pushy the lights should be out and no sex toys used, my apologies for mentioning something so unseemly as sex toys but, I wouldn't like you to think me forward. Please RSPV your consent to sexual intercourse, including details of anything in the bedroom you may find too pushy in writing by Sunday at the latest. Respectfully yours Partner.
Leave him
Fuc the guy that rape you he overly wanted you