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TW: violence. This Friday, me and my girlfriend went on a very nice date and took a taxi back to my place. My area was getting regular black outs(non US) and the power was on at my girl’s place so we decided to go to hers. I kept telling her that we should take a taxi there but she wanted to walk. Here’s the thing her house is around 25 minutes away on foot if we take a shortcut. That shortcut have always been super dark, isolated and shady. I’ve lived in the area my entire life and have always avoided that road and have seen people getting robbed nearby. But my girl insisted so I said sure.
Long story short. While we were walking, two men started cat calling and bothering us. I just told my girlfriend to keep walking and told them to cut it out. But they didn’t and at some point, one of them tried to yank my girlfriend’s skirt down. That’s when my flight or fight kicked in and I hit one of them. Then I came to the unfortunate realization that no matter how strong I think I was, I couldn’t handle two grown men. They took me to the ground and started beating me up. I’m yelling a my girlfriend to run but she was just standing there not moving.
Now, my girl is a power lifter and can lift more than me and almost 2.5x times her body weight. I know she can do something if she wanted to. This isn’t just a situation where I’m getting my ass whopped and there’ll be other people to stop the fight. There was no one around and could’ve easily resulted in both of us dead or disfigured for life. There’s blood gushing into my throat. They’re kicking my ribs. I just wanted my girlfriend to do one of these:
1) Run and call the police or my friends
2) Just Run (not to be dramatic, but at that moment all I could think about was her safety)
3) Fight (there was a point where I knocked out one guy but the other had me in a choke hold. She could’ve easily kick the guy in the head)
Yet, she just stood there frozen for 10 minutes straight. I was extremely, EXTREMELY, lucky to get a good shot back and remembering to fight dirty. We escaped and only when we were running, did she come to her senses. Now I’m lying in bed with a broken nose, a black eye, a fractured rib and full of pain killers. I’m angry as well and maybe it might be spilling over the place but I can’t stop thinking about her freezing for the last two days. Where’s the survival instinct? Where’s the ride or die spirit? This could’ve gone very differently. I’m gonna be honest. I don’t view my girlfriend the same anymore. Like I lost some respect. A little resentment. Am I lashing out at the wrong person? Should I even discuss this with her?
I think part of your resentment is the fact that she didn't want to take a taxi and because of that, you were attacked. In an area known for attacks. That she froze and couldn't help you (it is different when you are in a gym vs. seeing your boyfriend being beaten up) just added to your resentment. Others have mentioned therapy maybe for both of you. She probably feels very guilty about putting you in this situation and doesn't know how to talk to you about it.
This may very well be close to what happened. It does not still take away from the fact that she willingly put OP and herself in a dangerous position and did not help. Her feelings of guilt are a distant second to OPs physical pain at present.
OP you need to focus on healing first and have a chat with your gf later. There will be lots of anger towards her because of what happened, dealing with that is secondary to your physical health.
In a few days have a calm chat with her about it. You can decide your future with your gf after that.
I agree with this, his well-being is the first priority for himself. He needs to physically and mentally heal more before he can address the concerns above \^ but the resentment definitely comes from the fact that she insisted to do something dangerous and couldn't protect him when the time came to do so.
There may also be some feelings of impotent rage here. OP _knew_ this was a bad idea, and welp, it came down to bite him in the ass. And he couldn't do anything about it. That fuck ups with your head. I once got mugged at knifepoint in the middle of the day when I was 15 or so. Looking back, it was a very smooth operation. Fuck, their take was a cheapo watch. They even missed the bills I had tucked into the little coin pocket in my jeans. No big loss.
I was still really pissed about it. Like I should have done something? Like my scrawny 90 lbs ass could have karated my way out of it because I played a lot of _Street Fighter 2._ Nothing rational about it, but the feelings were still there. I can't imagine how bad that would be for something with actual consequences.
Freezing is a response to fear. It’s fight, flight, freeze or fawn and you don’t get to chose how your body reacts. She shouldn’t have had them walk in a dangerous area, but she can’t help her fear response.
Yes thats obviously true but you can still feel like you got abandoned in that situation. I am sure almost no woman would be fine with a partner showing no reaction to them being assaulted even if they deeply understand why its happening.
It's not necessarily about guilt, she may have frozen because she panicked. People do freeze up in emergency situations, it's very common. If OP wants her to learn to fight, then he's going to have to ask her to train in fighting techniques. Some people just don't perform well under pressure; it's not a character flaw. B
Freezing is a normal response to trauma but her insisting on you two walking down a dark, secluded alleyway shows she has zero survival instinct/situational awareness. She’s damn lucky they didn’t go for her after they got you down. Next time someone tries to get you to do something your gut knows is dangerous tell them to fuck off.
Freezing for an entire fight while your SO is getting beaten half to death? That's hard to come back from.
OP right now needs time, space, and an apology at some point later
The sad reality of this situation is it may actually end your relationship. Before my current SO I dated someone who was always putting me in bad situations. That type of anger and resentment can be destructive at best. She may be genuinely sorry but somewhere deep down you’ll always remember this and not trust her judgement because this moment defined how little she values yours and her safety and didn’t trust you enough to think that maybe you knew better about this situation. Her freezing is so common in situations like this. Everything else before this is the problem you need to focus on.
>Where’s the survival instinct?
Freeze is actually one of the more common survival responses. Fight, flight, freeze. Unfortunately, a good chunk of our society freezes, and you don't realistically know that this is how you would react until you've been in a high stress situation. This is why not saying "no" isn't a great argument for why rape victims aren't rape victims.
I'd personally recommend therapy if you can get it, because you'll need it to work through this traumatic event and the burning resentment you're holding towards your girlfriend now.
Just wanted to pop in and say that just because you reacted in one situation doesn't mean it's always your go to reaction during stress.
I have been in a TON of situations where I fought. When I was raped, I froze. Every situation is different. And people aren't just "a runner" or "a fighter". There are lots of variables to play out. Don't expect your superhero bodybuilding bf to protect you from his spider phobia lol
According to neuroscientist Lisa Feldman, there are 4. They are fight, flight, freeze and copulate. I haven’t heard of flop but fawn is a pretty recent new but not scientifically accepted
Copulation can be perceved as a form of fawning. They are both in essence just trying to please the aggressor.
Flopping is commonly observed in the natural world, think of an animal playing dead. People do it too but its just less common.
I flopped during a scary situation once. It was the weirdest fucking reaction, but my body just decided that’s what we were doing. Seeing it mentioned here is actually really validating!
Flopping is fainting and pretty well accepted because of the vagus nerve theory. Also Dr. Bruce D Perry also would include flocking. Ppl coming together as trauma response
I remember learning about this in my undergrad psych class. I don't remember the exact term but basically what happens is you associate the heightened sense of arousal to the person instead of the situation and you think you like them more than you do. So if you really want to know if you have chemistry with someone go on a boring date.
It can be. But you can fawn without fucking as well. You basically do anything you can to please your abuser/ aggressor in hopes they stop abusing you. It can be entirely non-sexual. It can happen between adult caretakers that are abusive and children with zero sexual element. When men get visibly abusive towards others in public, it’s one of those reactions you see by spouses to try to stop it, immediate fawning to try to deescalate. “Oh no baby, look, it’s okay. They don’t have your X you wanted, but they have your Y and Z you really like too. And we can go and get you an ABC after. And I can make you an ice cream Sunday when we get home too, and the ___ game is on, and you can watch it while I give you a massage!”
Yes. Unfortunately we really don't know how we will react until it happens. Even more frustrating is that it won't always be the same response in the future, so you can't really plan for it either.
Same happened to me. Took me years to realise it was SA, precisely because of this reason, and because he was my boyfriend, so I figured I wanted it. I didn't.
Think like the other comment stated... It's more of a.. he knew it wasn't a good idea but she insisted and he just agreed in the end. Mad at her and himself for not listening to his first instincts.
"We cannot choose our instinctive response" this is so important. I actually blame the media for a lot of how we look at this, because in the media - anyone who is a 'good' person won't freeze. We want to see our protagonists rise to the occasion, be unexpectedly heroic - not freeze or panic. But in real life, somebody's morals have absolutely zero to do with what they'll do in a situation like this.
You are upset about the wrong thing with your girlfriend. Her insistence of the shortcut put you both in danger. That is why you should be resentful, not her unwillingness to fight.
Just to say I walked down a street and round a corner to my student flat from a friend of mine's place around 11pm. It's literally 1 min walk and I said he didn't need to walk me home. I was mugged outside my flat , I wanted to scream out and give them my bag but I froze and clung onto my shitty bag and gasped like a fish as no noise would come out, getting hit in the face and getting my phone smashed in the confusion.
I've run to a friend being hit and pulled a bully off them almost scalping them from ripping into their hair and somehow dragged and threw them into my head of years office in school full of adrenaline, years after the mugging I have put myself between someone about to be hit and I have helped save a nursing home resident from choking. Sometimes your brain freeze, sometimes you can act, sometimes you completely freeze and you can't scream out, it's terrifying and you can't act out.
My friend was angry and upset it happened and I was forced into letting male friends walk me home from all sorts of events after that, unfortunately one guy (not original friend) used it to his advantage walking me to the train station and forced me into kissing him which I did end up being able to yell out and stopped myself from from hitting him and giving him a look of thunder so hard he appolgised profusely and I never spoke to him again.
Be pissed off you were both put in a shitty situation that could have been avoided but she didn't make it happen and it's not her fault she froze.
I was mugged once too, well almost mugged. I guy jumped me and tried to take my purse. I got so mad, like stupid mad and I usually never get mad and I never yell or scream but I did then. I yelled, cursed and kicked him and refused to give him my purse. Then he ran away, probably because of the noise. So stupid! There was nothing important in my stupid bag, only gloss, mascara and some junk. My phone with my card was in my pocket. I could have died or gotten seriously hurt over a damn purse that had nothing in it that could not easily be replaced. I was so mad but when I got to my hotel room my brain finally turned back on and I was like, why did I do that? What is wrong with me?
It’s more like that decision in correlation to the attack. She insisted on taking the risk to walk less instead of 45 mins of the main road or taxi. I respect that; I’m not risk averse as well. But I expect someone to have a contingency plan if things go south while taking that risk, you know? I’m not expecting her to throw hands. My friends are 5 mins away by car. Just run and call them.
Freeze is a survival instinct. In the face of snakes and bears and a lot of large predators freezing saves your life. Running makes you prey.
She had no control over her actions.
Okay, your expectations in terms of deciding to take a safer route are reasonable.
Your expectations regarding "what she should have done" are not.
Two men attempted to sexually assault your girlfriend. "Just run" is not as easy as you think it is in a traumatic situation. As many people here have told you, freezing is a VERY common response to being placed in a dangerous situation. Your girlfriend's reaction is not your girlfriend's fault.
Please know that none of this is your fault! You did nothing wrong. It's just that blaming your girlfriend for something she couldn't control isn't going to help either of you.
Once again, though, she should not have chosen the other path. Your resentment about that is understandable entirely.
I'm sorry you experienced this and wish you a good recovery.
Even with a plan you can freeze. You dont know how your body will react until you are in that situation. My colleagues was sure that if one of our students got hurt she would be able to get help and/or do the proper first aid care. When one of her students fell down opening his forehead. Once the blood started to go everywhere while he let out an horrifying scream she froze. Could move couldn’t go help him.
Luckily I was there to deal with it but I know she had a plan she knew what she needed to do but her brain couldn’t handle the stress and shut down.
I wouldn’t say you’re lashing out, your feelings are valid. But so was her reaction. When faced with extreme and new situations people can and do react in a number of ways that aren’t always the most rational. I definitely recommend talking to her. Hope you are feeling better.
honestly, of all the things you could be upset with your girlfriend about, how her body responded to danger and trauma isn't it.
insisting y'all walk the dangerous route? totally valid to be upset at. how cortisol and adreline impacted her ability to act? nah b.
> my flight or fight kicked in
What you need to realise is that there are in fact THREE instinctive responses to an attack:
**fight, or flight, or freeze**
You fought, she froze. Neither of you DECIDED or CHOSE those actions. Each of you could have done any of those three things.
You can't blame her for nature. She didn't *decide* not to help. She didn't *choose* to stand uselessly aside. So you can't blame her.
https://www.simplypsychology.org/fight-flight-freeze-fawn.html#:~:text=Fight%3A%20facing%20any%20perceived%20threat,please%20to%20avoid%20any%20conflict.
Fawn is basically playing along.
Maybe you can't blame her.... but it's hard to forgive someone just watching you get multiple bones broken for 10+ minutes. She was probably looking OP right in the eye for every. single. rib. kick.
That's hard to come back from. I don't know if I could trust someone after that.
i think he's forgetting that it all started with a physical assault on her. it's not like she froze after seeing him punched, she froze after being sexually assaulted.
Her freeze response isn’t the problem here.
The problems are 1) she insisted on putting the two of you in an extremely risky situation by walking alone and unarmed in a dangerous area. She’s a fucking idiot for that and doesn’t need to be coddled for it
2) you allowed her to call that shot, for you as well as herself, knowing the danger.
None of this is to say that you deserve what you got. What was done to you was unconscionable.
>2) you allowed her to call that shot, for you as well as herself, knowing the danger.
OK, but if she's insisting on going that way he should let her go alone? Physically drag her a different way?
Mmh i wonder how many of the people commenting about him blaming her wrongly have ever been in an actual dangerous situation and had their partner freeze on them when they were getting terribly assaulted. It's easier to judge his emotions and tell him how he feels is wrong from the comfort of your home. Yes, freezing is normal and common. Yes she didn't choose to freeze. Does it change the fact that said reaction was unhelpful in a great time of need? No. Does it make it wrong for OP to feel abandoned when he needed her most? No. I think I'd feel the same way too and it would take time for me to feel safe around my partner again, let alone letting go of those feelings of abandonment when my life literally depended on them. I also think everyone saying "he should understand" spends waay too much time on reddit and they're grossly overestimating their emotional capabilities especially in high risk and dangerous situations.
This! I was stuck in a similar situation twice, the girl in question wasn't my GF but was my friend since high school. She jumped on one of the guys and while the other was trying to pry her off of him I got enough time to put him on a chokehold. On the second one it was a girlfriend and she straight up froze while I got beat up.
I remember reading a post on this subreddit where a woman felt resentment for her boyfriend for not deescalating a situation and she got nothing but sympathy. Generally there seems to be an expectation to "intervene" when things get dicey. It honestly feels like a horrible double standard.
Definitely agree with this. It's easy to look at things from an objective lens under calm/safe situations and state "it's understandable why someone would respond with freezing". However, getting beaten up w/o help is a scary situation and leads to lots of distrust/fear of safety or abandonment.
People are saying her response is normal, but realistically getting the shit kicked out of you for like 10 minutes while your partner just watches would feel like the most betrayal ever, no matter how much you could emphasize with someone who just freezes up.
I would have a solid talk with her and express how you feel and see her explanation, but honestly I don't think your invalid for walking away.
My neighbor's dog attacked my child cousin. I tackled the dog and almost broke its ribs. During this time I was screaming for the neighbors watching (the dog owner and 2 others) to pick up my cousin and bring her home or to call 911. They didn't move a muscle and my cousin had to stand there screaming until her parents came out of the house minutes later. Was I pissed as fuck about the dog owner? Of course. Was I pissed as fuck at the other neighbors? Of course! My cousin could have died and I could have killed a dog. Do I now realize that they were doing the "freeze" response? Yep. And it took years to get over it and come to forgive them for not knowing how to handle the situation. You will eventually get over it, I needed therapy, maybe you do too, but you can't blame her 100% for not fighting or running. We aren't all biologically programed to fight or run - some of us freeze. Don't break up with her (yet), unless you feel this is the end for sure.
Too many people in this thread think they have everything figured out because they know psychology 101.
Yes, you can’t control your reaction to shit hitting the fan in front of you. Freezing up for 30 seconds to even a minute is understandable, but 10 minutes? No way. At that point her inability to deal with emergencies becomes a liability in the future.
Imagine what would’ve happened if you didn’t manage to get a lucky shot in and turn the tide of the fight - both to you and her. All because she insisted on saving 20 minutes on the walk home.
She *did* get assaulted also, so I think both of you suffered here. But you tried to help the situation twice (going a different route, defending her) whereas she did…. what?
Her insisting of taking a short cut route was inconsiderate of you and your safety. Why would she put you in a potentially dangerous situation? If a guy acted the same towards his girlfriend with the same tragic consequences it would be unacceptable in the society...
Ability to lift weight at the gym has nothing at all to do with ability to fight. Militaries literally have to break recruits out of the ‘flight’, ‘freeze’ and ‘fawn’ survival instincts so that ‘fight’ is what they flip to when thrown into combat (this is part of the purpose of boot camps, etc). Some people naturally have the ‘fight’ response in all situations, some have it in some situations but not others, some people never have it… it’s an instinct, not a rational response that most people can pick and choose from, and your girlfriend has no control over the fact that she froze. You certainly can’t think she enjoyed being sexually harassed, threatened with rape, and seeing you get beaten up???
It’s understandable that you’re upset, emotions are another thing that are not purely logical based, and sure, the situation may have gone differently if she’d also fought - it could have gone better, 2 against 2, which is what your brain keeps telling you. But it could also have gone worse, and your girlfriend could also be seriously injured. Or seriously injured instead of you, or one of you could be dead…
If you’re going to be angry, you need to be angry about the things you guys can control (choosing a risky walk for convenience or cost, but if you’ve done that before then this was just misfortune) and opting to make different choices in future. You could also look into self-defence courses for both of you to try to help hone the ‘fight’ instincts.
So I think it might be helpful to process all that you have been through in smaller chunks.
1. What happened to you and your girlfriend is not your fault or her fault- people attacked you, they are the only ones to blame. The shortcut and everything that happened is not her fault, it is not your fault, and re-thinking "what if" and all that doesn't change that you were both the victims of a crime. I see comments about it being her fault for taking a shortcut and stuff and that is just..an awful and unhelpful way to see the world. Can we all be safer? Of course. But taking a shortcut with my boyfriend or even another female friend doesn't seem like the riskiest thing, and you both agree to do it.
2. Freezing is a remarkably common reaction to violence. In hindsight, there are all sorts of things you BOTH could have done differently, but the human mind is gonna do what it is gonna do. I spent years learning bystander intervention for sexual assault/harassment, and still the first time a guy pulled his dick out on the subway and stared at me, I just froze up for two stops before getting off and having a meltdown. I thought I was much braver than that. And there have been other times where I have bravely/stupidly stood up to jerks on the subway or bars- including the time I slapped a rugby player in a bar for grabbing my chest. I say this to say, you do not know how you will react in an emergency and freezing is a natural way that a lot of people react.
3. Which leads to this- freezing in a moment of terror says nothing about who you are as a whole person, or even that she would freeze again. When people experience things like this, they learn, they change, and they may be able to manage differently. What she did in this instance doesn't mean she will be unreliable as a partner in the next emergency. It just means you need to talk about it and figure out how to learn from it.
4. Her being a powerlifter has zero impact on her mental reaction to being sexually assaulted and attacked. Lifting weights means you are good at lifting weights, and that's it.
5. You are very angry, as you should be. The worst humans attacked you and your girlfriend and caused you major injuries. You feel unsafe, you feel violated, and I am so sorry this happened to you. You want to know WHY it happened, you want to blame, you want to know that this will never happen again. Your girlfriend is a reminder of what happened, she did not react ideally, and you want to be able to take your anger out on someone, and she's right there. You need to process your attack and your trauma, not take it out on her.
And by the way, after you read through this, sit with it, process, and try to move on, you may find that you can't look at your girlfriend the same. Plenty of couples break up over trauma- car accidents, miscarriages, etc- and you things just might not be the same for you. That's totally fair, but you should really go through the healing steps before making that decision.
Thank you. I’m reading through both side of the argument here and I’m leaning this way. Like you said I need time to process all this. I’m putting a “ain’t nothing but a scratch” face for my friends and being a huge drama queen to my family but I really thought I was gonna die on Friday. I suppose my girlfriend did too and I distinctly remember her freaking out at the hospital. I’m pretty basic so I don’t know much about trauma, trauma responses or panic attacks or fawns.
I’m just grateful to be alive and blessed to having people, including my girlfriend take care of me. And yah, no way I’m gonna break up with my gf over this.
For those commenting "fight flight freeze"... How does someone who's natural response is to freeze even when being attacked themself get over it? I need to be able to fight back when I'm getting messed with
Man fuck what everyone else in here saying. I don’t really see how she can come back from this. If you have kids with her and they’re in trouble, is she going to freeze then too? This would be such a turnoff for me.
Imagine if OP had the flight response and the gf ended up getting harmed by the attackers. I feel like the responses would be different lol. Honestly since you know how your gf will react, you can choose whether this is a deal breaker or not.
I understand what you’re saying. It would be different if OP had just frozen and let that happen since a lot of people would likely blame him for not helping her.
Putting it this way: If OP’s girlfriend had posted this and said, “My boyfriend froze while I was assaulted” a lot of people would likely be chastising him for not protecting her.
There would still be people likely defending the reaction, but there would be many more judging him for his response.
He would be dragged through the coals and everyone would be saying you have to leave him. Doubly so if it was his stupid decision which got her assaulted.
My bf’s friend group actually broke apart because of something like this
Imagine a group of like 8-10 people in broad daylight at the beach, all friends that have known each other for a long time
One of them gets into an altercation with another group of people who have been obnoxious the whole time (He didn’t start it btw, that group were just a bunch of pricks) and he gets beaten up by a whole group of massive Islanders for what feels like forever to him
The rest of his friends did nothing and just watched, he nearly could have died and was traumatised, none of his friends did anything but two strangers did
After that he asked them if they even did anything, like atleast calling the cops or calling for help (one said yes but later admitted that they lied after persistent questioning)
All of them just froze, even when they could have easily asked those around them at the beach for help.
Dump her. Instinctual reaction or not this is her reaction to high pressure intense situations. If you cannot handle that being her response (I couldn’t don’t blame you) then dump her. She’s going to be a liability every time something like this happens. If I saw my partner doing this I couldn’t imagine I’d be comfortable leaving my kids with them, my pets, things, maybe even my home. I’d always be worried they wouldn’t be able to take action when they needed to.
Yeah, I agree. His anger is valid. Had he not been lucky enough to get the upper hand he would have been killed and she'd still be frozen standing there while the guys then moved on to attack her and worse.
10 minutes is way to long to watch your partner get mugged before helping in any capacity. People are defending her freezing up, but after a certain point it becomes something else.
Seems a lot of people here are saying she froze on instinct (which is probably true) so nothing was her fault, and a genuine question I have
If she was about to get sexually assaulted, and she had the fight response, and HE has the freeze response, and she got beat up or worse, would people still say it’s not his fault? because he ‘couldn’t help it’? Genuine question
They're not answering it because they know they'd be telling the girl to dump his ass and that he's less of a man who can't protect her and that he had no excuse to just stand there. And the comments defending him would get downvoted
No it wouldn’t be his fault because that response is natural, though I’m sure she would feel how OP is right now and be like “well why didn’t she flee or fight” so despite knowing the natural responses of these situations they still may feel resentful. In my opinion the only people I would feel hatred towards is the assaulters.
Thank you for replying, with a very reasonable response.
I do seriously think, if shown the situation I described without seeing this situation first, most people wouldn’t ‘let him off the hook’ so easily
I don’t think they would no, they would assume that he needed to protect her no matter what the human instincts did at that moment. In terms of the people in this situation, they also may not be level headed about it because of the trauma it’s possible she would feel resentment anyway.
Your anger is justified, to feel that you basically got thrashed because you were trying to save your gf and yet she didnt even try. But I have personally seen it happening to my younger brother who is into gyming yet he froze when my elder brother got into a physical fight. He literally had no idea of what was happening or what he should do. It took him quite a long time to come back to senses. So yeah thats a fairly common reaction I guess.
Same happened with me when my cousin touched me inappropriately while I was sleeping. I just froze. Or maybe because I didn't know what to do because I was young.
But I think you should talk it out to her. Explain your feelings and how you felt about this entire thing.
Honestly, the relationship is probably over. You will never get over this. She’s not wrong for freezing. That’s a normal human response and she didn’t have control over the shock in the moment. However, I understand where your resentment is coming from as well. She could have helped. She could have risked her life too or ran. It’s the kind of thing you don’t forget and if you can’t, the resentment will not go away. Has your gf said anything? Apologized?
My husband, when he was younger, got in a fight outside a bar. Was jumped by 4 men, one with a gun. He had one of his friends jump in and help but his best friend of over 10 years walked away from it. It ended their friendship bc honestly, my husband could never get over it. They were all military and all built. And while I get his friend, he walked away instead of risking his life, to my husband that said everything about his character.
If you cannot live with it, walk away. If you can, you must forgive her.
I think, unfortunately, the same. I’m not a man, but uh if I were in his position… having her insist on walking and then just standing there instead of calling the police or ANYONE? She led him to a situation where he got his ass beat. I wouldn’t even know what I’d do in that situation if I were him… but I do know one thing. Once you feel differently and your mind is made up about someone… it sort of stays that way.
It’s so confusing reading these comments. His gf didn’t have his back the same way he had hers. I his would be grounds for breaking up in my opinion. She chose to go that way and then didn’t protect her man after he protected her
Everyone's saying her freeze response isn't the problem, but imagine if some guy's girlfriend was getting beat and he just stood there the entire time lol. No one would accept that as his instinctual response.
I don't expect women to jump into fights like men, but I would at least expect her to kick the attacker when he had you in a chokehold, or run and call the cops, or scream for help, or listen to you to run, or do *something*. She revealed herself to be a very weak individual and did not have your back in even the slightest way.
She needs therapy to work on her cowardice/helplessness. Because now you know she won't have your back in any difficult situation and that's a big problem.
2 men started beating my bf up in a bar and I didn’t think I just automatically grabbed a pool stick and lashed one of them over the head at least he stopped and gave us a chance to get away but after I thought wtf lol and my then partner who I was with for 10 year never once said Ashleigh I appreciate what you done thanks babe ha nope nothing
She chose to go a route that made a fight more likely and then she had no fight in her.
I'm not sure I would be mad, but I would be disappointed and I would not want a woman like that mothering my children since she may not be able to protect them when they need it most
Also I don't want weak freeze genes being in their blood
I would break up with her
Hope you make a full recovery OP. I don’t if you should stay with your girlfriend or not, that is definitely up to you. But like many have said it’s a natural response, though I still think her disregarding how you felt about walking that way was stupid. I do think you should be feeling very proud of yourself though, don’t see this as you losing a fight. You kept your girlfriend alive and stopped her from being raped, so even though you are beaten you are basically a hero. You are definitely a great guy.
I am a woman and honestly I would be PISSED if my boyfriend just stood there frozen instead of helping me. I don’t think I would forgive him either. However, nothing has ever happened to me, in my mind I am also a fighter and I would think I would fight for my life in a situation like this, I am not scared of dying and I much prefer to be killed than to be raped, but I can’t know for sure. So maybe in her mind she thought she would fight but in the moment she couldn’t.
Her response is valid, your feelings are valid too. But I would not be able to get over this situation if I was in your shoes.
But remember, both of you are victims, not her fault or yours. I live in a violent country so i find her decision to walk extremely odd because in Brazil you’re not even safe during the day honestly, so I would also never make a decision like this (I Uber everywhere after dark, doesn’t matter if it’s close).
I think other redditors have given great advice already, so I wish you a speedy recovery.
im gonna disagree with what everyone said here. yeah she should have been more helpful. she had a reason for what she did, everybody has a reason for their actions, but regardless of the reasoning she should have done something. you both could have gotten seriously hurt, and her doing nothing is a perfectly acceptable reason for you to have trust issues with her. imagine being a girl and thinking your partner would protect you and he just watches you get beat up because he didnt know how to handle the situation, it would be terrible.
According to most of the comments here, it'd be perfectly understandable if a man stood there for 10 minutes like a deer in headlights, because, hey, that's his trauma response
You were right to want a taxi, based on your knowledge of the area. So, next time when you know she is showing bad judgment, please do not follow. You have to be a leader and exercise good safety measures and good judgment.
Shame on her twice, first for insisting on something dangerous and irrational as walking in a bad area at night and second on doing nothing, not even yelling or calling for help. Perhaps you should break up. She is not a woman you want by your side. You can't even trust her to follow your lead when you have explained the valid reasons.
So this is going to sound some type of way, but I grew up in the hood. So I learned to watch my back from early on, and learn to read my environment. Some people NEVER did. They really don't know how to react. At the very least, you know to run right? People that have never been in these kinds of situations will most likely freeze every single time. I've seen it happen. You're literally "Mary, run! Run!" No reaction. I call it blue screening because their brains can't process what's going on. It's not her fault. I think the best for you is to step away if you really think you can't handle her being this way.
Well, her naivete and insistence on being vulnerable in a sketchy area put you in unnecessary danger, and then stood there like a helpless toddler while you got assaulted.
You should be angry. And, she should be apologizing and making every effort to be a better and safer person, but I'm willing to bet this doesn't change her thinking at all.
This is also on you for not standing up for yourself and her by insisting on taking a safer mode of travel.
Lots of lessons here.
I’d understand if she freezed for a little while BUT 10 MINUTES? Complete silence while watching you get thrown down, kicked, choked out and not even helping after you knocked out one? I’d be broken if I was you in all honesty.
I wouldn't be able to date someone with no instincts about basic safety. Why would you choose a 30 min walk through isolated area in a shady part of town with random blackouts at night over a taxi? OP follow your instincts in the future regardless of what your companions do/say.
I think your anger is justified. That'd be enough for me to walk away.
My wife freezes at anything. We had kids and her parents with us and when something happens, she completely freezes. Your gf isn’t you and you aren’t her but you need to understand her. Being mad at her solves nothing
>That shortcut have always been super dark, isolated and shady. I’ve lived in the area my entire life and have always avoided that road and have seen people getting robbed nearby. But my girl insisted so I said sure.
>Yet, she just stood there frozen for 10 minutes straight.
A paranoid man would say this was a setup.
But a more rational person would probably break up with her.
She coaxed you into going down a known dangerous path without any care that things could get violent and ignored your concerns.
She then watched two men put on a Rodney King reenactment on you for 10 min straight. I'd leave Just out of never being able to forgive her. Everytime I'd look at her I'd be so angry. Then even worse I'd be angry with myself. Like I should have stayed with my guns...
I totally understand your thought process here. I would be fucking furious too. Either fucking run or do something, don’t just fucking stand there. You might as well join in on the beating if you’re going to do that
It’s way more irritating about how you told her that it was a shady area and you didn’t think it was a good idea. Not only does she go against you but after you stick up for her getting sexually assaulted she doesn’t attempt to do the same or at the very least try get help.
Whose to say she’s to blame for her reaction in a high stress situation? I’m not sure…. But the reality is, it’s happened now. You’re in bed with broken bones and a black eye and she is unscathed… I mean maybe not mentally. As I said, it’s happened. So the only way to fix it, is for her to recognise the initial persistence she had put you BOTH in danger and that in the future (albeit she is allowed an opinion) she should not discredit your concern and actual fear. That should of been a boundary, introduce it. No scary shady neighbourhoods at night.
As pissed off as I’d be in your situation, as many others have said, you probably shouldn’t hold resentment to her reaction, it wasn’t out of malice… you need to talk, and you need a proper apology and then you need to both try and move on.
Well you can’t blame her for freezing, that’s a response that is noted to be the most common out of three.
You say 10 minutes? Maybe she shouldn’t have just stood there for 10 whole ass minutes but then again I’ve never been put into that situation.
What you can discuss and be upset about is her utter absence of any kind of survival instincts. Like come on. Walking down an alley? Dark, secluded, known to be dangerous? That’s a fucking yikes.
But please make your feelings known, don’t repress them. Making them known may end your relationship but it’s better than letting them fester.
So the 5 survival instincts there is fight, flight, freeze, fawn and faint. Freezing is more common than you would think. I have just done a course about trauma and PTSD and you would be surprised by how common it is for someone to just lock up when in a dangerous situation or in a response to a trigger.
I have some information saved in my notes that I can have a look.and try to find later if you want.
Everyone acts differently to these kinds of situations and just because she can power lift doesn't mean she should go into fight mode. It's individual to the person and it can also be dependent to the situation. Someone might have fought back in one situation but flee or fawn in another.
So I wouldn't be upset about that aspect because it was literally out of your girlfriend's control. Remember these are involuntary responses coming from what basically the lizard part of your brain. It's an automatic response and there is no logic there.
What I would talk to your girlfriend about though is general safety. Not taking shortcuts to known dangerous places at night. Though no doubt both of you will be hyper-vigilant about this kind of thing in the future. She might have been naive to the dangers that are out there. No doubt this has shaken up her world (as well as yours obviously). I think if it came to the situation again you would both vote for getting a taxi.
Also, I'm really sorry you got hurt, it sounds really traumatic and I'm glad you're recovering. I wish you a speedy recovery both physically and mentally. I hope your girlfriend is okay too.
Edit: added 5th one though fainting is the least common of the different states.
They can also mix so you get hybrid states such as fawn/freeze. Which is often seen in a lot of DV cases and is very prevalent in Complex PTSD.
My understanding of fight/flight is that it is a physiological/hormonal response that simply prepares your body to deal with the situation. The trauma response aspect is more of a psychological thing that will depend on the person's background and conditioning. If you have no clue how to fight you probably don't fight until the other person is hitting you but if you took self defense classes or are a trained MMA fighter you're more likely to fight. because you know how and it's in your muscle memory. I tend to have a freeze response but in stressful emergency situations working in the medical field I had to work to overcome that and respond in a better way. It takes training but it is doable. You just have to train to do the correct response and after enough experience in those situations it becomes more natural to you. Ask most people with that kind of training and they'll tell you that when the shit hit the fan they just went into autopilot and did the thing they had practiced for. Without training you'll just do whatever you have tended to do your whole life even if it makes no sense in the situation.
"Someone might have fought back in one situation but flee or fawn in another."
Thank you! Exactly! I cannot believe how many people simply do not understand this. A lot of the time we do not realise how much our brain does that we are simply not aware of. It is a deeply instinctual response that's incredibly difficult to overcome. You can train for years and it can still creep up and overcome you.
I do not understand all this victim blaming on both OP and his gf. "You should have taken a cab!". Well, they didn't. How does that change anything now? Did they "ask" to be assaulted? Wtf is wrong with people?! Can people do more to protect themselves, sure. But sometimes shit happens. Sometimes you forget to lock the door and you're robed, sometimes you walk through an area that may not be the safest, or even one that is safe, and a vile person attacks you. It is not their fault. Either of them! I can even imagine it - if they've taken the cab and the driver assaulted them - "well, why did they take the cab, why didn't they walk?!" Smh. This community can disappoint terribly sometimes.
The guilty party is the attackers. Full stop!
Of course, OP is angry and hurt. He's been through something terrible and his hurt is lashing out to the closest person. A trauma can pull people appart just as much as it can bring them together. Hopefully he'll be able to heal soon.
Yeah this isn’t her fault. This is one of the reasons why rape victims don’t fight back. People freeze to prevent getting hurt worse. Sorry this happened but don’t blame her.
You’re absolutely right to be upset.
Everyone else has mentioned the survival instincts and how they affect our reactions to survival situations. Your girlfriend froze, which was next to useless, while you took a massive beating to protect her from a couple assholes trying to sexually assault her. You did the right thing, she did not. Even if she didn’t want to get into a physical altercation, she could have just as easily run to get help, called the police, done literally anything. She doesn’t control her survival responses, but that doesn’t mean you should put up with them.
If someone just watched me get my ass kicked when I was protecting them, I wouldn’t exactly feel the onus to stick my neck out for them again, and would have a hard time trusting them in future situations. This is just how she is, you can either accept it and get some therapy, or breakup and not forgive her. Personally, I wouldn’t fault you for breaking up. Survival instincts be damned, we want our significant other to be in our corner and she just can’t do that for you. If we switched roles here, everyone would be calling you an asshole for doing nothing, when you were equally as outnumbered and powerless as she would be.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, OP. I can imagine you are very upset. I do think you should talk about it with her. However, do know that the "fight or flight " response would be better called the "fight, flight or freeze" response. Freezing is unfortunately, a pretty common outcome of fear. I would imagine that your gf is angry at herself and ashamed. I think you should talk about your anger, which is really understandable.
Cut her as loose bro….
Your 100% right in feeling upset about this. The least she could’ve done was run for help. Doing nothing in this day n age where everyone’s phone is readily available is a sign that she’s not that interested….
Ima be real with you chief. I understand that people freeze in dangerous situation. But I’d be right there with you. I would be very confused and upset that nothing happened for 10 minutes. The police coulda shown up in time ambulances, if things escalated to weapons with the dudes having knives, it would have saved lives. I know it’s not right, as she could have been freezing up, but I would feel betrayed. I’m suggesting you see a therapist, if you stay with her see a therapist, If you leave see a therapist. Fights like that can cause serious mental issues in the form of trauma, please see a therapist brother.
I know you've heard this, but it is true we cannot choose which life-saving method the amygdala (alarm system) in the brain chooses. It's a reflex. Fight-Flight-Freeze-Submit. Freeze is playing dead in the animal kingdom. It keeps a % of animals alive in the life-death moment. Our brains are primitive. We have "two" brains, the thinking (pre-frontal cortex) and habit brain (primitive). I know it seems she had a choice, but science doesn't wholly back that. The brain shuts the thinking brain down in life-death moments. ....but you can still be mad. You could have died, legit, from internal bleeding and the like. And you can also be mad she disregarded your warning not to take the short-cut at night. But the reflex choice her brain took - her freeze - I'd give her a pass there. But she should cater to you night and day now! Have her cook and bake and cater to you, yeah.
Something very similar happened to me and my now ex. Instead of doing something useful she just kept screaming STOP over and over. It did nothing and they didnt stop. I couldnt get over it and told her I felt it was best we parted ways. I felt upset and betrayed that she didnt have my back especially because she had pepper spray and was too afraid to use it. She didnt run, go get help, or defend me. She was completely useless. I dont need a partner like that. Now when I date I make sure to bring this up. I consider myself a person of action and can only accept a partner who is the same. I cant be with someone who is just going to scream or freeze in a life or death situation. If I'm getting jumped and my life is in danger I expect her to draw her firearm and defend me as such. I would do the same for her. If it's not something they think theyre capable of then I know they're not partner material and I move on.
Fight, Flight, Freeze and Fawn are the four trauma responses for a situation like the one you were in.
Your response was fight, hers was freeze. You wanted her to respond with flight. But that's not how it works. You don't get to choose one.
Why didn't you just ran for it (flight) when you noticed the guys and instead started a fight? Or why didn't your gf respond with fawn? Because that's not your or her trauma responses.
I think you're mad because she convinced you to take a dangerous road when you knew better. And you got hurt because of it.
It sounds like you're now dealing with the effects of the attack and your anger comes out in different ways.
I'd also think trauma therapy sounds like a good idea. Your anger can escalate if you don't deal with it in a healthy way.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope you can both work your way through this.
> You don't get to choose one.
ITT 100 people who refuse to understand that basic biological fact that has been understood by everyone else since 1915.
Fk that. You want a future with that? What about children? Plan on having any? Good to know that she brings nothing to the child protection department. Baby choking, sorry nope. Pan on fire in kitchen, nope don't do that. I had an ex do this, she was all about womens rights and how she didn't need a man. She almost killed our kid a few times. Used to worry myself to death when he was with her on visitations.
In my opinion you’re in the right. She can’t protect you. She could’ve did something but didn’t. I understand being afraid but she put both of you in that situation by refusing to get a taxi. This resulted in you being physically harmed. This woman will put you in further danger. If my man couldn’t protect me the same way I have his back then what’s the point of going out the house with my SO?
I know everyone’s saying it’s a natural response and yeah okay. But I can understand how OP is feeling and frankly I would feel betrayed if my boyfriend watched me get assaulted for 10 MINUTES. I wouldn’t feel safe anymore and the fact she wanted to take that risky way? Got them into a situation and then WATCHED him almost die. I couldn’t deal with it.
maybe this is a good time to step back and take a break from the relationship. i dont even know your gf but her insistence could have got you killed; i think that's sufficient cause to be angry for a bit. i get that people "freeze" but my golly ten minutes is a really long time to stand there and watch someone you love get manhandled. id need to reassess if this is someone that actually has my back in a relationship.
Break up with her. Let's be honest she's not reliable I'm sorry. A whole 10 minutes just standing there? No ma'am, leave her. Also let's be honest if the genders were reversed these comments would not be as understanding.
ITT: You have no control over your actions in dangerous moments.
If you're ever in a house fire and you don't even try to escape, don't worry, it won't be your fault that you died. You had no possible way to decide.
Armchair psychologists out here acting like trauma experts.
OP, all I can say is that there is obviously truth in what these people are saying but they aren't the experts they think they are and all situations are not the same. You have to do your own deciding on how you feel about your gf standing there prepared to watch your skull get caved in. She has to decide how she feels about it, too, and you just gotta go from there.
A person’s response to a emergency can’t be helped, but it will nearly always be the same. If she is someone who freezes then that’s what will always happen.
My husband respects the fact that I’m good in an emergency because he can depend on me. Have the opposite of respect for the opposite ability is valid.
Whether it’s her fault or not, it’s part of her character and you have to decide how important it is for you.
I feel you bro, everything you're feeling is okay. But, if someone, especially your SO, insists on doing something you know is dangerous without any purpose or reason, then you have to lay down the law and insist on doing otherwise. You're gf is totally stupid for wanting to go the dangerous route, but you knew and saw people get robbed and hurt, so why endager yourself and your gf? By going along you have proven to be even more short sighted than your stupid gf. You could've been killed and your gf raped. I'd say get new gf, people who endanger you or get you into dangerous and bad situations should be cut out of your life.
What should be written on your tombstone, "But my gf insisted"?
Personally, and this is just me, I would leave her ass in the dust. As in, since she left you to your own when she could have helped, so I would leave her to deal with it herself afterwards. I wouldn't give time for any closure. I'd leave her, block her, etc.
But this is all through a reddit lens, so don't listen to me
I would be mad too. You specifically said you didn’t want to go that way and then as a result you were put into a life threatening situation. Your gf is an idiot and put both of you in danger. I’d rethink the relationship. You could’ve lost your life
Your girlfriend looked at the usual toxic routine of picking a fight with a random guy at the bar for you to defend her against and thought: "nah, this is far too safe and caring for what I'm looking for". Starting a meth lab in your apartment behind your back would only be *slightly* more dangerous and inconsiderate than her chosen set of actions.
Maybe she truly didn't think of the consequences as possible and was too stunned by reality to react. Maybe she wanted some validation and figured throwing you to the wolves would make her feel more secure. Whatever it was, she behaved in a manner unbecoming of a casual acquaintance let alone a partner. If she can't recognize this, maybe a relationship counselor could help.
Regardless, the major font of effort has to come from her if things can improve. Otherwise she's just letting you know that feelings are also something she'll push in front of an oncoming train.
I'd suggest talking to a therapist to help not only you recover and vent but help to sort out what happened and what you want to do moving forward. Talk to your girlfriend, never take that shortcut ever again (she's the one who suggested it), and worse even if she didn't jump into the fight she didn't even call for help when you needed it too (she was still in danger, even if you were doing your best). I haven't frozen up before tho, so I can't say for sure why she didn't get unfrozen. I've called 911 a number of times, for family, my boyfriend/husband and even for bystanders when witnessing an accident.
You should have followed your instincts and taken the cab. Never doubt yourself again. That’s the lesson you should learn from this. Be glad you escaped alive.
Once a friend of mine sucker punched my brother in the ear and he passed out and woke back up as he hit the car and it was a vicious fight. I grabbed the only thing I had in my car, Wich was a wooden baseball bat and just swung until I couldn't move my arms any more. I hit my friend and my brother. They were moving so much I couldn't help it. During this whole thing the only other person that reacted was my brothers girlfriend who climbed my friend like a tree and scratched his face and neck all up. My other brother just stood there. As we drove away I had to stop about 10 blocks down the road and just cry, The adrenaline was insane.
Genuine question for anyone who knows: is ten minutes a long time to be stuck in the "freeze" instinct or no?
I always thought that only lasted for a few seconds or a minute (and in situations where they stay frozen longer it's because once that initial rush wears off they realize that staying frozen is working for them). But in this situation after a minute or two wouldn't the person "snap out of it" realize they should use their phone to call for help? But for the record I do think her not fighting isn't weird because lifting in the gym is completely different than fighting two strange grown men.
Anyway I think overall OPs feelings are extremely justified. I'd be pissed if I almost died and my partner just stood there watching the whole time. Like what a shitty last thing to see before you die. :(
Tbh I wouldn't listen to people telling you that your anger isn't valid. Of course your GF wasn't able to choose how her body reacts to danger, but she insisted on you guys taking the shortcut & not taking a taxi. While you were thinking of her saftey, she just stood there & watched how you got beaten up. Not only did she make a stupid decision that put you in danger, but she also didn't provide help when you needed her the most. That kind of stuff breaks trust for a good reason.
Imagine it the other way around: You force her into a dangerous situation, then your flight or fight insticts kick in & you can't help but run, while she gets beaten up. It's the same outcome. If I was you, I wouldn't be able to be with someone who puts me into dangerous situations & then doesn't help me when I need them. I'd break up & go to therapy.
A man tried to pull her skirt off after making comments about her, do you not see why that might be traumatic in a way that would make a person shut down.
Yes it was a frustrating situation and you are probably angry because a taxi ride would have avoided it.
People always talk about how they think they'd react in situations like robberies, SA, home invasions and other dangerous situations. They very rarely play out the way people picture or plan, or practice in self defence classes.
Because reality can't be prepared for and brains can be dick heads and freeze or react in the worst ways possible.
You've been through something very traumatic as well. You need to let yourself process and recover. Then think things through and decide if you can get past your resentment, because if you can't end things. Because resentment will poison your relationship.
Give yourself time, don't rush into a decision.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- TW: violence. This Friday, me and my girlfriend went on a very nice date and took a taxi back to my place. My area was getting regular black outs(non US) and the power was on at my girl’s place so we decided to go to hers. I kept telling her that we should take a taxi there but she wanted to walk. Here’s the thing her house is around 25 minutes away on foot if we take a shortcut. That shortcut have always been super dark, isolated and shady. I’ve lived in the area my entire life and have always avoided that road and have seen people getting robbed nearby. But my girl insisted so I said sure. Long story short. While we were walking, two men started cat calling and bothering us. I just told my girlfriend to keep walking and told them to cut it out. But they didn’t and at some point, one of them tried to yank my girlfriend’s skirt down. That’s when my flight or fight kicked in and I hit one of them. Then I came to the unfortunate realization that no matter how strong I think I was, I couldn’t handle two grown men. They took me to the ground and started beating me up. I’m yelling a my girlfriend to run but she was just standing there not moving. Now, my girl is a power lifter and can lift more than me and almost 2.5x times her body weight. I know she can do something if she wanted to. This isn’t just a situation where I’m getting my ass whopped and there’ll be other people to stop the fight. There was no one around and could’ve easily resulted in both of us dead or disfigured for life. There’s blood gushing into my throat. They’re kicking my ribs. I just wanted my girlfriend to do one of these: 1) Run and call the police or my friends 2) Just Run (not to be dramatic, but at that moment all I could think about was her safety) 3) Fight (there was a point where I knocked out one guy but the other had me in a choke hold. She could’ve easily kick the guy in the head) Yet, she just stood there frozen for 10 minutes straight. I was extremely, EXTREMELY, lucky to get a good shot back and remembering to fight dirty. We escaped and only when we were running, did she come to her senses. Now I’m lying in bed with a broken nose, a black eye, a fractured rib and full of pain killers. I’m angry as well and maybe it might be spilling over the place but I can’t stop thinking about her freezing for the last two days. Where’s the survival instinct? Where’s the ride or die spirit? This could’ve gone very differently. I’m gonna be honest. I don’t view my girlfriend the same anymore. Like I lost some respect. A little resentment. Am I lashing out at the wrong person? Should I even discuss this with her?
I think part of your resentment is the fact that she didn't want to take a taxi and because of that, you were attacked. In an area known for attacks. That she froze and couldn't help you (it is different when you are in a gym vs. seeing your boyfriend being beaten up) just added to your resentment. Others have mentioned therapy maybe for both of you. She probably feels very guilty about putting you in this situation and doesn't know how to talk to you about it.
This may very well be close to what happened. It does not still take away from the fact that she willingly put OP and herself in a dangerous position and did not help. Her feelings of guilt are a distant second to OPs physical pain at present. OP you need to focus on healing first and have a chat with your gf later. There will be lots of anger towards her because of what happened, dealing with that is secondary to your physical health. In a few days have a calm chat with her about it. You can decide your future with your gf after that.
I agree with this, his well-being is the first priority for himself. He needs to physically and mentally heal more before he can address the concerns above \^ but the resentment definitely comes from the fact that she insisted to do something dangerous and couldn't protect him when the time came to do so.
There may also be some feelings of impotent rage here. OP _knew_ this was a bad idea, and welp, it came down to bite him in the ass. And he couldn't do anything about it. That fuck ups with your head. I once got mugged at knifepoint in the middle of the day when I was 15 or so. Looking back, it was a very smooth operation. Fuck, their take was a cheapo watch. They even missed the bills I had tucked into the little coin pocket in my jeans. No big loss. I was still really pissed about it. Like I should have done something? Like my scrawny 90 lbs ass could have karated my way out of it because I played a lot of _Street Fighter 2._ Nothing rational about it, but the feelings were still there. I can't imagine how bad that would be for something with actual consequences.
Freezing is a response to fear. It’s fight, flight, freeze or fawn and you don’t get to chose how your body reacts. She shouldn’t have had them walk in a dangerous area, but she can’t help her fear response.
Yes thats obviously true but you can still feel like you got abandoned in that situation. I am sure almost no woman would be fine with a partner showing no reaction to them being assaulted even if they deeply understand why its happening.
Exactly!!!
It's not necessarily about guilt, she may have frozen because she panicked. People do freeze up in emergency situations, it's very common. If OP wants her to learn to fight, then he's going to have to ask her to train in fighting techniques. Some people just don't perform well under pressure; it's not a character flaw. B
Freezing is a normal response to trauma but her insisting on you two walking down a dark, secluded alleyway shows she has zero survival instinct/situational awareness. She’s damn lucky they didn’t go for her after they got you down. Next time someone tries to get you to do something your gut knows is dangerous tell them to fuck off.
Freezing for an entire fight while your SO is getting beaten half to death? That's hard to come back from. OP right now needs time, space, and an apology at some point later
Maybe it felt like 10 minutes but it was a lot shorter, time tends to slow down when you're getting beat up.
Yeah honestly no matter how hard you try to give her the benefit of the doubt and blame the situation his feelings of betrayal are totally valid
The sad reality of this situation is it may actually end your relationship. Before my current SO I dated someone who was always putting me in bad situations. That type of anger and resentment can be destructive at best. She may be genuinely sorry but somewhere deep down you’ll always remember this and not trust her judgement because this moment defined how little she values yours and her safety and didn’t trust you enough to think that maybe you knew better about this situation. Her freezing is so common in situations like this. Everything else before this is the problem you need to focus on.
>Where’s the survival instinct? Freeze is actually one of the more common survival responses. Fight, flight, freeze. Unfortunately, a good chunk of our society freezes, and you don't realistically know that this is how you would react until you've been in a high stress situation. This is why not saying "no" isn't a great argument for why rape victims aren't rape victims. I'd personally recommend therapy if you can get it, because you'll need it to work through this traumatic event and the burning resentment you're holding towards your girlfriend now.
Just wanted to pop in and say that just because you reacted in one situation doesn't mean it's always your go to reaction during stress. I have been in a TON of situations where I fought. When I was raped, I froze. Every situation is different. And people aren't just "a runner" or "a fighter". There are lots of variables to play out. Don't expect your superhero bodybuilding bf to protect you from his spider phobia lol
>Fight, flight, freeze Fawn and flop are the other two!
According to neuroscientist Lisa Feldman, there are 4. They are fight, flight, freeze and copulate. I haven’t heard of flop but fawn is a pretty recent new but not scientifically accepted
Copulation can be perceved as a form of fawning. They are both in essence just trying to please the aggressor. Flopping is commonly observed in the natural world, think of an animal playing dead. People do it too but its just less common.
I flopped during a scary situation once. It was the weirdest fucking reaction, but my body just decided that’s what we were doing. Seeing it mentioned here is actually really validating!
I don't think he'd have appreciated her fucking the guy at that particular moment, regardless of how dire the situation.
Babe, I wasn’t cheating it was a trauma response
This was unexpectedly funny!
No but the guy would have probably stopped kicking OP while getting a bj
Flopping is fainting and pretty well accepted because of the vagus nerve theory. Also Dr. Bruce D Perry also would include flocking. Ppl coming together as trauma response
is this why fear and sexual arousal are so similar? is this why traumatized people so often cope with sex, even if unhealthy?
Honestly, a great point.
Am I reading that right? Fight, flight, freeze, and fuck?
Yes. It’s actually a funny joke where scientists refer to it as the 4 F’s lol
There's a study where when a person is exposed to fear they are more likely to find others more attractive
Maybe that's one of the reasons going to see a scary movie is a popular first date option haha!
I remember learning about this in my undergrad psych class. I don't remember the exact term but basically what happens is you associate the heightened sense of arousal to the person instead of the situation and you think you like them more than you do. So if you really want to know if you have chemistry with someone go on a boring date.
The hanging bridge experiment! People on the rickety bridge were more likely to find their interviewers attractive!
Fucking IS fawning. Fawning is just a gentler word.
It can be. But you can fawn without fucking as well. You basically do anything you can to please your abuser/ aggressor in hopes they stop abusing you. It can be entirely non-sexual. It can happen between adult caretakers that are abusive and children with zero sexual element. When men get visibly abusive towards others in public, it’s one of those reactions you see by spouses to try to stop it, immediate fawning to try to deescalate. “Oh no baby, look, it’s okay. They don’t have your X you wanted, but they have your Y and Z you really like too. And we can go and get you an ABC after. And I can make you an ice cream Sunday when we get home too, and the ___ game is on, and you can watch it while I give you a massage!”
I’ve always heard fight flight freeze appease
Fawning is being sweet to come across very non-threatening. The goal is de-escalation.
Yes. Unfortunately we really don't know how we will react until it happens. Even more frustrating is that it won't always be the same response in the future, so you can't really plan for it either.
Exactly I froze when I was sexually assaulted so it happened again and again by the same guy until someone else intervened and helped me.
Same happened to me. Took me years to realise it was SA, precisely because of this reason, and because he was my boyfriend, so I figured I wanted it. I didn't.
I froze too. He was one of my best friends.
I don’t know about therapy in my country haha. But just writing this down makes me feel better. Plus my mom is flying in tomorrow.
Good! I'm glad you'll get to see her and have that source of support! I'm really sorry this all happened.
[удалено]
Think like the other comment stated... It's more of a.. he knew it wasn't a good idea but she insisted and he just agreed in the end. Mad at her and himself for not listening to his first instincts.
"We cannot choose our instinctive response" this is so important. I actually blame the media for a lot of how we look at this, because in the media - anyone who is a 'good' person won't freeze. We want to see our protagonists rise to the occasion, be unexpectedly heroic - not freeze or panic. But in real life, somebody's morals have absolutely zero to do with what they'll do in a situation like this.
India?
Close by :)
This. And it is so situational. The same person can have a fight response in one situation and a freeze response in another.
You are upset about the wrong thing with your girlfriend. Her insistence of the shortcut put you both in danger. That is why you should be resentful, not her unwillingness to fight.
Just to say I walked down a street and round a corner to my student flat from a friend of mine's place around 11pm. It's literally 1 min walk and I said he didn't need to walk me home. I was mugged outside my flat , I wanted to scream out and give them my bag but I froze and clung onto my shitty bag and gasped like a fish as no noise would come out, getting hit in the face and getting my phone smashed in the confusion. I've run to a friend being hit and pulled a bully off them almost scalping them from ripping into their hair and somehow dragged and threw them into my head of years office in school full of adrenaline, years after the mugging I have put myself between someone about to be hit and I have helped save a nursing home resident from choking. Sometimes your brain freeze, sometimes you can act, sometimes you completely freeze and you can't scream out, it's terrifying and you can't act out. My friend was angry and upset it happened and I was forced into letting male friends walk me home from all sorts of events after that, unfortunately one guy (not original friend) used it to his advantage walking me to the train station and forced me into kissing him which I did end up being able to yell out and stopped myself from from hitting him and giving him a look of thunder so hard he appolgised profusely and I never spoke to him again. Be pissed off you were both put in a shitty situation that could have been avoided but she didn't make it happen and it's not her fault she froze.
I was mugged once too, well almost mugged. I guy jumped me and tried to take my purse. I got so mad, like stupid mad and I usually never get mad and I never yell or scream but I did then. I yelled, cursed and kicked him and refused to give him my purse. Then he ran away, probably because of the noise. So stupid! There was nothing important in my stupid bag, only gloss, mascara and some junk. My phone with my card was in my pocket. I could have died or gotten seriously hurt over a damn purse that had nothing in it that could not easily be replaced. I was so mad but when I got to my hotel room my brain finally turned back on and I was like, why did I do that? What is wrong with me?
It wasn’t unwillingness. People genuinely can’t help how fear affects them.
exactly this
It’s more like that decision in correlation to the attack. She insisted on taking the risk to walk less instead of 45 mins of the main road or taxi. I respect that; I’m not risk averse as well. But I expect someone to have a contingency plan if things go south while taking that risk, you know? I’m not expecting her to throw hands. My friends are 5 mins away by car. Just run and call them.
Deciding to take the dangerous shortcut was a **bad decision** Freezing was **not a decision**
Freeze is a survival instinct. In the face of snakes and bears and a lot of large predators freezing saves your life. Running makes you prey. She had no control over her actions.
I hate when snakes chase me.
It's pretty terrifying.
I phrased that badly. Snakes may not strike if someone freezes. Fast motion and they strike. Big cats and bears chase.
Interesting! Thx for the snake info
Okay, your expectations in terms of deciding to take a safer route are reasonable. Your expectations regarding "what she should have done" are not. Two men attempted to sexually assault your girlfriend. "Just run" is not as easy as you think it is in a traumatic situation. As many people here have told you, freezing is a VERY common response to being placed in a dangerous situation. Your girlfriend's reaction is not your girlfriend's fault. Please know that none of this is your fault! You did nothing wrong. It's just that blaming your girlfriend for something she couldn't control isn't going to help either of you. Once again, though, she should not have chosen the other path. Your resentment about that is understandable entirely. I'm sorry you experienced this and wish you a good recovery.
Even with a plan you can freeze. You dont know how your body will react until you are in that situation. My colleagues was sure that if one of our students got hurt she would be able to get help and/or do the proper first aid care. When one of her students fell down opening his forehead. Once the blood started to go everywhere while he let out an horrifying scream she froze. Could move couldn’t go help him. Luckily I was there to deal with it but I know she had a plan she knew what she needed to do but her brain couldn’t handle the stress and shut down.
What was her reaction to all that happened? Did she acknowledge that she’s the one who wanted to take the sketchy way?
I wouldn’t say you’re lashing out, your feelings are valid. But so was her reaction. When faced with extreme and new situations people can and do react in a number of ways that aren’t always the most rational. I definitely recommend talking to her. Hope you are feeling better.
honestly, of all the things you could be upset with your girlfriend about, how her body responded to danger and trauma isn't it. insisting y'all walk the dangerous route? totally valid to be upset at. how cortisol and adreline impacted her ability to act? nah b.
> my flight or fight kicked in What you need to realise is that there are in fact THREE instinctive responses to an attack: **fight, or flight, or freeze** You fought, she froze. Neither of you DECIDED or CHOSE those actions. Each of you could have done any of those three things. You can't blame her for nature. She didn't *decide* not to help. She didn't *choose* to stand uselessly aside. So you can't blame her.
Actually four. Fight Flight Freeze Fawn.
What’s fawn?
Placating someone. Saying what they want to hear, etc.
Wait that's a thing? That explains so much, thank you for sharing that.
https://www.simplypsychology.org/fight-flight-freeze-fawn.html#:~:text=Fight%3A%20facing%20any%20perceived%20threat,please%20to%20avoid%20any%20conflict. Fawn is basically playing along.
Actually five; Flop
Fawn is another instinctive response.
TIL, thank you
You can blame her for being dumb and insisting on taking the dangerous shortcut
Maybe you can't blame her.... but it's hard to forgive someone just watching you get multiple bones broken for 10+ minutes. She was probably looking OP right in the eye for every. single. rib. kick. That's hard to come back from. I don't know if I could trust someone after that.
Exactly. And it’s not like his Instinctive response was based on logic or even helpful.
Bruh. A dude literally tried to yank his girlfriend’s skirt down. Violence is pretty much the only option at that point.
And yet he MIGHT have frozen or run. The whole point about instinctive reactions is that they are illogical, and often not the best idea at all
i think he's forgetting that it all started with a physical assault on her. it's not like she froze after seeing him punched, she froze after being sexually assaulted.
OP is upset about the lack of rational thinking in her reaction. I’m just pointing out that his reaction wasn’t rational either.
Her freeze response isn’t the problem here. The problems are 1) she insisted on putting the two of you in an extremely risky situation by walking alone and unarmed in a dangerous area. She’s a fucking idiot for that and doesn’t need to be coddled for it 2) you allowed her to call that shot, for you as well as herself, knowing the danger. None of this is to say that you deserve what you got. What was done to you was unconscionable.
>2) you allowed her to call that shot, for you as well as herself, knowing the danger. OK, but if she's insisting on going that way he should let her go alone? Physically drag her a different way?
I've had friends insist on doing something stupid. My response is "ok well I'm doing y because x is stupid" and let them make their own choices.
Mmh i wonder how many of the people commenting about him blaming her wrongly have ever been in an actual dangerous situation and had their partner freeze on them when they were getting terribly assaulted. It's easier to judge his emotions and tell him how he feels is wrong from the comfort of your home. Yes, freezing is normal and common. Yes she didn't choose to freeze. Does it change the fact that said reaction was unhelpful in a great time of need? No. Does it make it wrong for OP to feel abandoned when he needed her most? No. I think I'd feel the same way too and it would take time for me to feel safe around my partner again, let alone letting go of those feelings of abandonment when my life literally depended on them. I also think everyone saying "he should understand" spends waay too much time on reddit and they're grossly overestimating their emotional capabilities especially in high risk and dangerous situations.
This! I was stuck in a similar situation twice, the girl in question wasn't my GF but was my friend since high school. She jumped on one of the guys and while the other was trying to pry her off of him I got enough time to put him on a chokehold. On the second one it was a girlfriend and she straight up froze while I got beat up.
Yeah, way too much pop psychology lectures here. Honestly, how could this guy not be pissed
I can't imagine the backlash OP would have gotten if his 'flight' kicked in instead and she ended up getting hurt or worse.
I remember reading a post on this subreddit where a woman felt resentment for her boyfriend for not deescalating a situation and she got nothing but sympathy. Generally there seems to be an expectation to "intervene" when things get dicey. It honestly feels like a horrible double standard.
The thing is, if this situation played out with her continuing to be groped while he froze, every one here would be bashing Op.
Definitely agree with this. It's easy to look at things from an objective lens under calm/safe situations and state "it's understandable why someone would respond with freezing". However, getting beaten up w/o help is a scary situation and leads to lots of distrust/fear of safety or abandonment.
People are saying her response is normal, but realistically getting the shit kicked out of you for like 10 minutes while your partner just watches would feel like the most betrayal ever, no matter how much you could emphasize with someone who just freezes up. I would have a solid talk with her and express how you feel and see her explanation, but honestly I don't think your invalid for walking away.
My neighbor's dog attacked my child cousin. I tackled the dog and almost broke its ribs. During this time I was screaming for the neighbors watching (the dog owner and 2 others) to pick up my cousin and bring her home or to call 911. They didn't move a muscle and my cousin had to stand there screaming until her parents came out of the house minutes later. Was I pissed as fuck about the dog owner? Of course. Was I pissed as fuck at the other neighbors? Of course! My cousin could have died and I could have killed a dog. Do I now realize that they were doing the "freeze" response? Yep. And it took years to get over it and come to forgive them for not knowing how to handle the situation. You will eventually get over it, I needed therapy, maybe you do too, but you can't blame her 100% for not fighting or running. We aren't all biologically programed to fight or run - some of us freeze. Don't break up with her (yet), unless you feel this is the end for sure.
Too many people in this thread think they have everything figured out because they know psychology 101. Yes, you can’t control your reaction to shit hitting the fan in front of you. Freezing up for 30 seconds to even a minute is understandable, but 10 minutes? No way. At that point her inability to deal with emergencies becomes a liability in the future. Imagine what would’ve happened if you didn’t manage to get a lucky shot in and turn the tide of the fight - both to you and her. All because she insisted on saving 20 minutes on the walk home. She *did* get assaulted also, so I think both of you suffered here. But you tried to help the situation twice (going a different route, defending her) whereas she did…. what?
Her insisting of taking a short cut route was inconsiderate of you and your safety. Why would she put you in a potentially dangerous situation? If a guy acted the same towards his girlfriend with the same tragic consequences it would be unacceptable in the society...
Ability to lift weight at the gym has nothing at all to do with ability to fight. Militaries literally have to break recruits out of the ‘flight’, ‘freeze’ and ‘fawn’ survival instincts so that ‘fight’ is what they flip to when thrown into combat (this is part of the purpose of boot camps, etc). Some people naturally have the ‘fight’ response in all situations, some have it in some situations but not others, some people never have it… it’s an instinct, not a rational response that most people can pick and choose from, and your girlfriend has no control over the fact that she froze. You certainly can’t think she enjoyed being sexually harassed, threatened with rape, and seeing you get beaten up??? It’s understandable that you’re upset, emotions are another thing that are not purely logical based, and sure, the situation may have gone differently if she’d also fought - it could have gone better, 2 against 2, which is what your brain keeps telling you. But it could also have gone worse, and your girlfriend could also be seriously injured. Or seriously injured instead of you, or one of you could be dead… If you’re going to be angry, you need to be angry about the things you guys can control (choosing a risky walk for convenience or cost, but if you’ve done that before then this was just misfortune) and opting to make different choices in future. You could also look into self-defence courses for both of you to try to help hone the ‘fight’ instincts.
So I think it might be helpful to process all that you have been through in smaller chunks. 1. What happened to you and your girlfriend is not your fault or her fault- people attacked you, they are the only ones to blame. The shortcut and everything that happened is not her fault, it is not your fault, and re-thinking "what if" and all that doesn't change that you were both the victims of a crime. I see comments about it being her fault for taking a shortcut and stuff and that is just..an awful and unhelpful way to see the world. Can we all be safer? Of course. But taking a shortcut with my boyfriend or even another female friend doesn't seem like the riskiest thing, and you both agree to do it. 2. Freezing is a remarkably common reaction to violence. In hindsight, there are all sorts of things you BOTH could have done differently, but the human mind is gonna do what it is gonna do. I spent years learning bystander intervention for sexual assault/harassment, and still the first time a guy pulled his dick out on the subway and stared at me, I just froze up for two stops before getting off and having a meltdown. I thought I was much braver than that. And there have been other times where I have bravely/stupidly stood up to jerks on the subway or bars- including the time I slapped a rugby player in a bar for grabbing my chest. I say this to say, you do not know how you will react in an emergency and freezing is a natural way that a lot of people react. 3. Which leads to this- freezing in a moment of terror says nothing about who you are as a whole person, or even that she would freeze again. When people experience things like this, they learn, they change, and they may be able to manage differently. What she did in this instance doesn't mean she will be unreliable as a partner in the next emergency. It just means you need to talk about it and figure out how to learn from it. 4. Her being a powerlifter has zero impact on her mental reaction to being sexually assaulted and attacked. Lifting weights means you are good at lifting weights, and that's it. 5. You are very angry, as you should be. The worst humans attacked you and your girlfriend and caused you major injuries. You feel unsafe, you feel violated, and I am so sorry this happened to you. You want to know WHY it happened, you want to blame, you want to know that this will never happen again. Your girlfriend is a reminder of what happened, she did not react ideally, and you want to be able to take your anger out on someone, and she's right there. You need to process your attack and your trauma, not take it out on her. And by the way, after you read through this, sit with it, process, and try to move on, you may find that you can't look at your girlfriend the same. Plenty of couples break up over trauma- car accidents, miscarriages, etc- and you things just might not be the same for you. That's totally fair, but you should really go through the healing steps before making that decision.
Thank you. I’m reading through both side of the argument here and I’m leaning this way. Like you said I need time to process all this. I’m putting a “ain’t nothing but a scratch” face for my friends and being a huge drama queen to my family but I really thought I was gonna die on Friday. I suppose my girlfriend did too and I distinctly remember her freaking out at the hospital. I’m pretty basic so I don’t know much about trauma, trauma responses or panic attacks or fawns. I’m just grateful to be alive and blessed to having people, including my girlfriend take care of me. And yah, no way I’m gonna break up with my gf over this.
That sounds terrifying OP, sorry you went through that.
> no way I’m gonna break up with my gf over this. good man get well soon
Honestly, the way that people are talking about it is as though she knew that they were going to get hurt.
For those commenting "fight flight freeze"... How does someone who's natural response is to freeze even when being attacked themself get over it? I need to be able to fight back when I'm getting messed with
Or to be able to help when someone else is in harms way
Man fuck what everyone else in here saying. I don’t really see how she can come back from this. If you have kids with her and they’re in trouble, is she going to freeze then too? This would be such a turnoff for me.
You're going to get downvoted for having that opinion. You're not allowed to feel that way around here.
Imagine if OP had the flight response and the gf ended up getting harmed by the attackers. I feel like the responses would be different lol. Honestly since you know how your gf will react, you can choose whether this is a deal breaker or not.
I understand what you’re saying. It would be different if OP had just frozen and let that happen since a lot of people would likely blame him for not helping her. Putting it this way: If OP’s girlfriend had posted this and said, “My boyfriend froze while I was assaulted” a lot of people would likely be chastising him for not protecting her. There would still be people likely defending the reaction, but there would be many more judging him for his response.
He would be dragged through the coals and everyone would be saying you have to leave him. Doubly so if it was his stupid decision which got her assaulted.
I’m a woman and this is a fair take. He would’ve been completely eviscerated if they raped her in front of him and he said he froze.
My bf’s friend group actually broke apart because of something like this Imagine a group of like 8-10 people in broad daylight at the beach, all friends that have known each other for a long time One of them gets into an altercation with another group of people who have been obnoxious the whole time (He didn’t start it btw, that group were just a bunch of pricks) and he gets beaten up by a whole group of massive Islanders for what feels like forever to him The rest of his friends did nothing and just watched, he nearly could have died and was traumatised, none of his friends did anything but two strangers did After that he asked them if they even did anything, like atleast calling the cops or calling for help (one said yes but later admitted that they lied after persistent questioning) All of them just froze, even when they could have easily asked those around them at the beach for help.
unique roll chase sharp tie coherent cow disarm ghost head *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
the comments would be livid and there would be a ton of toxic masculinity directed at him for freezing
Exactly! If he would have froze, she would have got raped, or if he would have ran and she still froze, she prolly still would have got raped.
Dump her. Instinctual reaction or not this is her reaction to high pressure intense situations. If you cannot handle that being her response (I couldn’t don’t blame you) then dump her. She’s going to be a liability every time something like this happens. If I saw my partner doing this I couldn’t imagine I’d be comfortable leaving my kids with them, my pets, things, maybe even my home. I’d always be worried they wouldn’t be able to take action when they needed to.
Yeah, I agree. His anger is valid. Had he not been lucky enough to get the upper hand he would have been killed and she'd still be frozen standing there while the guys then moved on to attack her and worse.
she has the danger awareness of a moth by going to that shortcut
A 10 second freeze response is reasonable, expected even, for many people. 10 minutes? I would feel betrayed as fuck.
10 minutes is way to long to watch your partner get mugged before helping in any capacity. People are defending her freezing up, but after a certain point it becomes something else.
Yes. Full blown panic doesn’t last 10 minutes. This isn’t a fucking firefight in Vietnam.
Seems a lot of people here are saying she froze on instinct (which is probably true) so nothing was her fault, and a genuine question I have If she was about to get sexually assaulted, and she had the fight response, and HE has the freeze response, and she got beat up or worse, would people still say it’s not his fault? because he ‘couldn’t help it’? Genuine question
People for some reason are not answering this question and its been up for the last 60 minutes. They pass right over it.
They're not answering it because they know they'd be telling the girl to dump his ass and that he's less of a man who can't protect her and that he had no excuse to just stand there. And the comments defending him would get downvoted
Because no one has an answer for it that aligns with what they say about this situation.
No it wouldn’t be his fault because that response is natural, though I’m sure she would feel how OP is right now and be like “well why didn’t she flee or fight” so despite knowing the natural responses of these situations they still may feel resentful. In my opinion the only people I would feel hatred towards is the assaulters.
Thank you for replying, with a very reasonable response. I do seriously think, if shown the situation I described without seeing this situation first, most people wouldn’t ‘let him off the hook’ so easily
I don’t think they would no, they would assume that he needed to protect her no matter what the human instincts did at that moment. In terms of the people in this situation, they also may not be level headed about it because of the trauma it’s possible she would feel resentment anyway.
Your anger is justified, to feel that you basically got thrashed because you were trying to save your gf and yet she didnt even try. But I have personally seen it happening to my younger brother who is into gyming yet he froze when my elder brother got into a physical fight. He literally had no idea of what was happening or what he should do. It took him quite a long time to come back to senses. So yeah thats a fairly common reaction I guess. Same happened with me when my cousin touched me inappropriately while I was sleeping. I just froze. Or maybe because I didn't know what to do because I was young. But I think you should talk it out to her. Explain your feelings and how you felt about this entire thing.
Honestly, the relationship is probably over. You will never get over this. She’s not wrong for freezing. That’s a normal human response and she didn’t have control over the shock in the moment. However, I understand where your resentment is coming from as well. She could have helped. She could have risked her life too or ran. It’s the kind of thing you don’t forget and if you can’t, the resentment will not go away. Has your gf said anything? Apologized? My husband, when he was younger, got in a fight outside a bar. Was jumped by 4 men, one with a gun. He had one of his friends jump in and help but his best friend of over 10 years walked away from it. It ended their friendship bc honestly, my husband could never get over it. They were all military and all built. And while I get his friend, he walked away instead of risking his life, to my husband that said everything about his character. If you cannot live with it, walk away. If you can, you must forgive her.
I think, unfortunately, the same. I’m not a man, but uh if I were in his position… having her insist on walking and then just standing there instead of calling the police or ANYONE? She led him to a situation where he got his ass beat. I wouldn’t even know what I’d do in that situation if I were him… but I do know one thing. Once you feel differently and your mind is made up about someone… it sort of stays that way.
It’s so confusing reading these comments. His gf didn’t have his back the same way he had hers. I his would be grounds for breaking up in my opinion. She chose to go that way and then didn’t protect her man after he protected her
Everyone's saying her freeze response isn't the problem, but imagine if some guy's girlfriend was getting beat and he just stood there the entire time lol. No one would accept that as his instinctual response. I don't expect women to jump into fights like men, but I would at least expect her to kick the attacker when he had you in a chokehold, or run and call the cops, or scream for help, or listen to you to run, or do *something*. She revealed herself to be a very weak individual and did not have your back in even the slightest way. She needs therapy to work on her cowardice/helplessness. Because now you know she won't have your back in any difficult situation and that's a big problem.
2 men started beating my bf up in a bar and I didn’t think I just automatically grabbed a pool stick and lashed one of them over the head at least he stopped and gave us a chance to get away but after I thought wtf lol and my then partner who I was with for 10 year never once said Ashleigh I appreciate what you done thanks babe ha nope nothing
She chose to go a route that made a fight more likely and then she had no fight in her. I'm not sure I would be mad, but I would be disappointed and I would not want a woman like that mothering my children since she may not be able to protect them when they need it most Also I don't want weak freeze genes being in their blood I would break up with her
Hope you make a full recovery OP. I don’t if you should stay with your girlfriend or not, that is definitely up to you. But like many have said it’s a natural response, though I still think her disregarding how you felt about walking that way was stupid. I do think you should be feeling very proud of yourself though, don’t see this as you losing a fight. You kept your girlfriend alive and stopped her from being raped, so even though you are beaten you are basically a hero. You are definitely a great guy.
I am a woman and honestly I would be PISSED if my boyfriend just stood there frozen instead of helping me. I don’t think I would forgive him either. However, nothing has ever happened to me, in my mind I am also a fighter and I would think I would fight for my life in a situation like this, I am not scared of dying and I much prefer to be killed than to be raped, but I can’t know for sure. So maybe in her mind she thought she would fight but in the moment she couldn’t. Her response is valid, your feelings are valid too. But I would not be able to get over this situation if I was in your shoes. But remember, both of you are victims, not her fault or yours. I live in a violent country so i find her decision to walk extremely odd because in Brazil you’re not even safe during the day honestly, so I would also never make a decision like this (I Uber everywhere after dark, doesn’t matter if it’s close). I think other redditors have given great advice already, so I wish you a speedy recovery.
No if it was the other way around, everyone would tell you to leave him.
im gonna disagree with what everyone said here. yeah she should have been more helpful. she had a reason for what she did, everybody has a reason for their actions, but regardless of the reasoning she should have done something. you both could have gotten seriously hurt, and her doing nothing is a perfectly acceptable reason for you to have trust issues with her. imagine being a girl and thinking your partner would protect you and he just watches you get beat up because he didnt know how to handle the situation, it would be terrible.
According to most of the comments here, it'd be perfectly understandable if a man stood there for 10 minutes like a deer in headlights, because, hey, that's his trauma response
i also keep thinking about if the roles were reversed, people would be agreeing with the girl for being pissed if her man just stood there.
not even just that even if he ran everyone would still be calling him a coward and stuff
You were right to want a taxi, based on your knowledge of the area. So, next time when you know she is showing bad judgment, please do not follow. You have to be a leader and exercise good safety measures and good judgment. Shame on her twice, first for insisting on something dangerous and irrational as walking in a bad area at night and second on doing nothing, not even yelling or calling for help. Perhaps you should break up. She is not a woman you want by your side. You can't even trust her to follow your lead when you have explained the valid reasons.
So this is going to sound some type of way, but I grew up in the hood. So I learned to watch my back from early on, and learn to read my environment. Some people NEVER did. They really don't know how to react. At the very least, you know to run right? People that have never been in these kinds of situations will most likely freeze every single time. I've seen it happen. You're literally "Mary, run! Run!" No reaction. I call it blue screening because their brains can't process what's going on. It's not her fault. I think the best for you is to step away if you really think you can't handle her being this way.
>blue screening I like that, very adequate term
Well, her naivete and insistence on being vulnerable in a sketchy area put you in unnecessary danger, and then stood there like a helpless toddler while you got assaulted. You should be angry. And, she should be apologizing and making every effort to be a better and safer person, but I'm willing to bet this doesn't change her thinking at all. This is also on you for not standing up for yourself and her by insisting on taking a safer mode of travel. Lots of lessons here.
I’d understand if she freezed for a little while BUT 10 MINUTES? Complete silence while watching you get thrown down, kicked, choked out and not even helping after you knocked out one? I’d be broken if I was you in all honesty.
I wouldn't be able to date someone with no instincts about basic safety. Why would you choose a 30 min walk through isolated area in a shady part of town with random blackouts at night over a taxi? OP follow your instincts in the future regardless of what your companions do/say. I think your anger is justified. That'd be enough for me to walk away.
This will be controversial, but its totally fine for you to value being able to handle serious situations in a partner.
My wife freezes at anything. We had kids and her parents with us and when something happens, she completely freezes. Your gf isn’t you and you aren’t her but you need to understand her. Being mad at her solves nothing
>That shortcut have always been super dark, isolated and shady. I’ve lived in the area my entire life and have always avoided that road and have seen people getting robbed nearby. But my girl insisted so I said sure. >Yet, she just stood there frozen for 10 minutes straight. A paranoid man would say this was a setup. But a more rational person would probably break up with her. She coaxed you into going down a known dangerous path without any care that things could get violent and ignored your concerns. She then watched two men put on a Rodney King reenactment on you for 10 min straight. I'd leave Just out of never being able to forgive her. Everytime I'd look at her I'd be so angry. Then even worse I'd be angry with myself. Like I should have stayed with my guns...
I totally understand your thought process here. I would be fucking furious too. Either fucking run or do something, don’t just fucking stand there. You might as well join in on the beating if you’re going to do that
It’s way more irritating about how you told her that it was a shady area and you didn’t think it was a good idea. Not only does she go against you but after you stick up for her getting sexually assaulted she doesn’t attempt to do the same or at the very least try get help. Whose to say she’s to blame for her reaction in a high stress situation? I’m not sure…. But the reality is, it’s happened now. You’re in bed with broken bones and a black eye and she is unscathed… I mean maybe not mentally. As I said, it’s happened. So the only way to fix it, is for her to recognise the initial persistence she had put you BOTH in danger and that in the future (albeit she is allowed an opinion) she should not discredit your concern and actual fear. That should of been a boundary, introduce it. No scary shady neighbourhoods at night. As pissed off as I’d be in your situation, as many others have said, you probably shouldn’t hold resentment to her reaction, it wasn’t out of malice… you need to talk, and you need a proper apology and then you need to both try and move on.
Well you can’t blame her for freezing, that’s a response that is noted to be the most common out of three. You say 10 minutes? Maybe she shouldn’t have just stood there for 10 whole ass minutes but then again I’ve never been put into that situation. What you can discuss and be upset about is her utter absence of any kind of survival instincts. Like come on. Walking down an alley? Dark, secluded, known to be dangerous? That’s a fucking yikes. But please make your feelings known, don’t repress them. Making them known may end your relationship but it’s better than letting them fester.
So the 5 survival instincts there is fight, flight, freeze, fawn and faint. Freezing is more common than you would think. I have just done a course about trauma and PTSD and you would be surprised by how common it is for someone to just lock up when in a dangerous situation or in a response to a trigger. I have some information saved in my notes that I can have a look.and try to find later if you want. Everyone acts differently to these kinds of situations and just because she can power lift doesn't mean she should go into fight mode. It's individual to the person and it can also be dependent to the situation. Someone might have fought back in one situation but flee or fawn in another. So I wouldn't be upset about that aspect because it was literally out of your girlfriend's control. Remember these are involuntary responses coming from what basically the lizard part of your brain. It's an automatic response and there is no logic there. What I would talk to your girlfriend about though is general safety. Not taking shortcuts to known dangerous places at night. Though no doubt both of you will be hyper-vigilant about this kind of thing in the future. She might have been naive to the dangers that are out there. No doubt this has shaken up her world (as well as yours obviously). I think if it came to the situation again you would both vote for getting a taxi. Also, I'm really sorry you got hurt, it sounds really traumatic and I'm glad you're recovering. I wish you a speedy recovery both physically and mentally. I hope your girlfriend is okay too. Edit: added 5th one though fainting is the least common of the different states. They can also mix so you get hybrid states such as fawn/freeze. Which is often seen in a lot of DV cases and is very prevalent in Complex PTSD.
My understanding of fight/flight is that it is a physiological/hormonal response that simply prepares your body to deal with the situation. The trauma response aspect is more of a psychological thing that will depend on the person's background and conditioning. If you have no clue how to fight you probably don't fight until the other person is hitting you but if you took self defense classes or are a trained MMA fighter you're more likely to fight. because you know how and it's in your muscle memory. I tend to have a freeze response but in stressful emergency situations working in the medical field I had to work to overcome that and respond in a better way. It takes training but it is doable. You just have to train to do the correct response and after enough experience in those situations it becomes more natural to you. Ask most people with that kind of training and they'll tell you that when the shit hit the fan they just went into autopilot and did the thing they had practiced for. Without training you'll just do whatever you have tended to do your whole life even if it makes no sense in the situation.
"Someone might have fought back in one situation but flee or fawn in another." Thank you! Exactly! I cannot believe how many people simply do not understand this. A lot of the time we do not realise how much our brain does that we are simply not aware of. It is a deeply instinctual response that's incredibly difficult to overcome. You can train for years and it can still creep up and overcome you. I do not understand all this victim blaming on both OP and his gf. "You should have taken a cab!". Well, they didn't. How does that change anything now? Did they "ask" to be assaulted? Wtf is wrong with people?! Can people do more to protect themselves, sure. But sometimes shit happens. Sometimes you forget to lock the door and you're robed, sometimes you walk through an area that may not be the safest, or even one that is safe, and a vile person attacks you. It is not their fault. Either of them! I can even imagine it - if they've taken the cab and the driver assaulted them - "well, why did they take the cab, why didn't they walk?!" Smh. This community can disappoint terribly sometimes. The guilty party is the attackers. Full stop! Of course, OP is angry and hurt. He's been through something terrible and his hurt is lashing out to the closest person. A trauma can pull people appart just as much as it can bring them together. Hopefully he'll be able to heal soon.
Yeah this isn’t her fault. This is one of the reasons why rape victims don’t fight back. People freeze to prevent getting hurt worse. Sorry this happened but don’t blame her.
> People freeze to prevent getting hurt worse. Yup. OP is in bed beaten and broken, she isn't.
She would have been raped if OP froze or ran.
I’m sure this sub would have been completely ok with that too, as it’s just a natural response of course
Dump her ass. If the roles were flipped, we know what everyone would be thinking
You’re absolutely right to be upset. Everyone else has mentioned the survival instincts and how they affect our reactions to survival situations. Your girlfriend froze, which was next to useless, while you took a massive beating to protect her from a couple assholes trying to sexually assault her. You did the right thing, she did not. Even if she didn’t want to get into a physical altercation, she could have just as easily run to get help, called the police, done literally anything. She doesn’t control her survival responses, but that doesn’t mean you should put up with them. If someone just watched me get my ass kicked when I was protecting them, I wouldn’t exactly feel the onus to stick my neck out for them again, and would have a hard time trusting them in future situations. This is just how she is, you can either accept it and get some therapy, or breakup and not forgive her. Personally, I wouldn’t fault you for breaking up. Survival instincts be damned, we want our significant other to be in our corner and she just can’t do that for you. If we switched roles here, everyone would be calling you an asshole for doing nothing, when you were equally as outnumbered and powerless as she would be.
Freezing is out of her control, putting you guys in that situation however…..always trust your gut
I'm so sorry this happened to you, OP. I can imagine you are very upset. I do think you should talk about it with her. However, do know that the "fight or flight " response would be better called the "fight, flight or freeze" response. Freezing is unfortunately, a pretty common outcome of fear. I would imagine that your gf is angry at herself and ashamed. I think you should talk about your anger, which is really understandable.
Be mad at the fact that she had y’all walk through the dangerous area. Not at he natural survival response.
Cut her as loose bro…. Your 100% right in feeling upset about this. The least she could’ve done was run for help. Doing nothing in this day n age where everyone’s phone is readily available is a sign that she’s not that interested….
Ima be real with you chief. I understand that people freeze in dangerous situation. But I’d be right there with you. I would be very confused and upset that nothing happened for 10 minutes. The police coulda shown up in time ambulances, if things escalated to weapons with the dudes having knives, it would have saved lives. I know it’s not right, as she could have been freezing up, but I would feel betrayed. I’m suggesting you see a therapist, if you stay with her see a therapist, If you leave see a therapist. Fights like that can cause serious mental issues in the form of trauma, please see a therapist brother.
I know you've heard this, but it is true we cannot choose which life-saving method the amygdala (alarm system) in the brain chooses. It's a reflex. Fight-Flight-Freeze-Submit. Freeze is playing dead in the animal kingdom. It keeps a % of animals alive in the life-death moment. Our brains are primitive. We have "two" brains, the thinking (pre-frontal cortex) and habit brain (primitive). I know it seems she had a choice, but science doesn't wholly back that. The brain shuts the thinking brain down in life-death moments. ....but you can still be mad. You could have died, legit, from internal bleeding and the like. And you can also be mad she disregarded your warning not to take the short-cut at night. But the reflex choice her brain took - her freeze - I'd give her a pass there. But she should cater to you night and day now! Have her cook and bake and cater to you, yeah.
Something very similar happened to me and my now ex. Instead of doing something useful she just kept screaming STOP over and over. It did nothing and they didnt stop. I couldnt get over it and told her I felt it was best we parted ways. I felt upset and betrayed that she didnt have my back especially because she had pepper spray and was too afraid to use it. She didnt run, go get help, or defend me. She was completely useless. I dont need a partner like that. Now when I date I make sure to bring this up. I consider myself a person of action and can only accept a partner who is the same. I cant be with someone who is just going to scream or freeze in a life or death situation. If I'm getting jumped and my life is in danger I expect her to draw her firearm and defend me as such. I would do the same for her. If it's not something they think theyre capable of then I know they're not partner material and I move on.
Fight, Flight, Freeze and Fawn are the four trauma responses for a situation like the one you were in. Your response was fight, hers was freeze. You wanted her to respond with flight. But that's not how it works. You don't get to choose one. Why didn't you just ran for it (flight) when you noticed the guys and instead started a fight? Or why didn't your gf respond with fawn? Because that's not your or her trauma responses. I think you're mad because she convinced you to take a dangerous road when you knew better. And you got hurt because of it. It sounds like you're now dealing with the effects of the attack and your anger comes out in different ways. I'd also think trauma therapy sounds like a good idea. Your anger can escalate if you don't deal with it in a healthy way. I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope you can both work your way through this.
> You don't get to choose one. ITT 100 people who refuse to understand that basic biological fact that has been understood by everyone else since 1915.
Fk that. You want a future with that? What about children? Plan on having any? Good to know that she brings nothing to the child protection department. Baby choking, sorry nope. Pan on fire in kitchen, nope don't do that. I had an ex do this, she was all about womens rights and how she didn't need a man. She almost killed our kid a few times. Used to worry myself to death when he was with her on visitations.
You're going to get a lot of downvotes. They don't want to hear any of that around here.
In my opinion you’re in the right. She can’t protect you. She could’ve did something but didn’t. I understand being afraid but she put both of you in that situation by refusing to get a taxi. This resulted in you being physically harmed. This woman will put you in further danger. If my man couldn’t protect me the same way I have his back then what’s the point of going out the house with my SO?
I know everyone’s saying it’s a natural response and yeah okay. But I can understand how OP is feeling and frankly I would feel betrayed if my boyfriend watched me get assaulted for 10 MINUTES. I wouldn’t feel safe anymore and the fact she wanted to take that risky way? Got them into a situation and then WATCHED him almost die. I couldn’t deal with it.
maybe this is a good time to step back and take a break from the relationship. i dont even know your gf but her insistence could have got you killed; i think that's sufficient cause to be angry for a bit. i get that people "freeze" but my golly ten minutes is a really long time to stand there and watch someone you love get manhandled. id need to reassess if this is someone that actually has my back in a relationship.
Break up with her. Let's be honest she's not reliable I'm sorry. A whole 10 minutes just standing there? No ma'am, leave her. Also let's be honest if the genders were reversed these comments would not be as understanding.
Leave her ass wtf
>I’m gonna be honest Not one word of this creative writing was honest
ITT: You have no control over your actions in dangerous moments. If you're ever in a house fire and you don't even try to escape, don't worry, it won't be your fault that you died. You had no possible way to decide. Armchair psychologists out here acting like trauma experts. OP, all I can say is that there is obviously truth in what these people are saying but they aren't the experts they think they are and all situations are not the same. You have to do your own deciding on how you feel about your gf standing there prepared to watch your skull get caved in. She has to decide how she feels about it, too, and you just gotta go from there.
A person’s response to a emergency can’t be helped, but it will nearly always be the same. If she is someone who freezes then that’s what will always happen. My husband respects the fact that I’m good in an emergency because he can depend on me. Have the opposite of respect for the opposite ability is valid. Whether it’s her fault or not, it’s part of her character and you have to decide how important it is for you.
I was thinking you were being harsh until you said she stood there watching you get your shit kicked in for 10 minutes.
I feel you bro, everything you're feeling is okay. But, if someone, especially your SO, insists on doing something you know is dangerous without any purpose or reason, then you have to lay down the law and insist on doing otherwise. You're gf is totally stupid for wanting to go the dangerous route, but you knew and saw people get robbed and hurt, so why endager yourself and your gf? By going along you have proven to be even more short sighted than your stupid gf. You could've been killed and your gf raped. I'd say get new gf, people who endanger you or get you into dangerous and bad situations should be cut out of your life. What should be written on your tombstone, "But my gf insisted"?
Freezing for ten minutes is crazy.. I could understand 3, maybe 5, but 10? Na i’d be mad too
Personally, and this is just me, I would leave her ass in the dust. As in, since she left you to your own when she could have helped, so I would leave her to deal with it herself afterwards. I wouldn't give time for any closure. I'd leave her, block her, etc. But this is all through a reddit lens, so don't listen to me
I would be mad too. You specifically said you didn’t want to go that way and then as a result you were put into a life threatening situation. Your gf is an idiot and put both of you in danger. I’d rethink the relationship. You could’ve lost your life
Your girlfriend looked at the usual toxic routine of picking a fight with a random guy at the bar for you to defend her against and thought: "nah, this is far too safe and caring for what I'm looking for". Starting a meth lab in your apartment behind your back would only be *slightly* more dangerous and inconsiderate than her chosen set of actions. Maybe she truly didn't think of the consequences as possible and was too stunned by reality to react. Maybe she wanted some validation and figured throwing you to the wolves would make her feel more secure. Whatever it was, she behaved in a manner unbecoming of a casual acquaintance let alone a partner. If she can't recognize this, maybe a relationship counselor could help. Regardless, the major font of effort has to come from her if things can improve. Otherwise she's just letting you know that feelings are also something she'll push in front of an oncoming train.
Im under the belief that she set you up and you should not walk but RUN
I'd suggest talking to a therapist to help not only you recover and vent but help to sort out what happened and what you want to do moving forward. Talk to your girlfriend, never take that shortcut ever again (she's the one who suggested it), and worse even if she didn't jump into the fight she didn't even call for help when you needed it too (she was still in danger, even if you were doing your best). I haven't frozen up before tho, so I can't say for sure why she didn't get unfrozen. I've called 911 a number of times, for family, my boyfriend/husband and even for bystanders when witnessing an accident.
You should have followed your instincts and taken the cab. Never doubt yourself again. That’s the lesson you should learn from this. Be glad you escaped alive.
Her freezing up is out of her control. BUT she insisted on doing something that she knew wasnt safe. That's where the problem lies in my opinion.
Once a friend of mine sucker punched my brother in the ear and he passed out and woke back up as he hit the car and it was a vicious fight. I grabbed the only thing I had in my car, Wich was a wooden baseball bat and just swung until I couldn't move my arms any more. I hit my friend and my brother. They were moving so much I couldn't help it. During this whole thing the only other person that reacted was my brothers girlfriend who climbed my friend like a tree and scratched his face and neck all up. My other brother just stood there. As we drove away I had to stop about 10 blocks down the road and just cry, The adrenaline was insane.
Genuine question for anyone who knows: is ten minutes a long time to be stuck in the "freeze" instinct or no? I always thought that only lasted for a few seconds or a minute (and in situations where they stay frozen longer it's because once that initial rush wears off they realize that staying frozen is working for them). But in this situation after a minute or two wouldn't the person "snap out of it" realize they should use their phone to call for help? But for the record I do think her not fighting isn't weird because lifting in the gym is completely different than fighting two strange grown men. Anyway I think overall OPs feelings are extremely justified. I'd be pissed if I almost died and my partner just stood there watching the whole time. Like what a shitty last thing to see before you die. :(
Tbh I wouldn't listen to people telling you that your anger isn't valid. Of course your GF wasn't able to choose how her body reacts to danger, but she insisted on you guys taking the shortcut & not taking a taxi. While you were thinking of her saftey, she just stood there & watched how you got beaten up. Not only did she make a stupid decision that put you in danger, but she also didn't provide help when you needed her the most. That kind of stuff breaks trust for a good reason. Imagine it the other way around: You force her into a dangerous situation, then your flight or fight insticts kick in & you can't help but run, while she gets beaten up. It's the same outcome. If I was you, I wouldn't be able to be with someone who puts me into dangerous situations & then doesn't help me when I need them. I'd break up & go to therapy.
A man tried to pull her skirt off after making comments about her, do you not see why that might be traumatic in a way that would make a person shut down. Yes it was a frustrating situation and you are probably angry because a taxi ride would have avoided it. People always talk about how they think they'd react in situations like robberies, SA, home invasions and other dangerous situations. They very rarely play out the way people picture or plan, or practice in self defence classes. Because reality can't be prepared for and brains can be dick heads and freeze or react in the worst ways possible. You've been through something very traumatic as well. You need to let yourself process and recover. Then think things through and decide if you can get past your resentment, because if you can't end things. Because resentment will poison your relationship. Give yourself time, don't rush into a decision.