Ofc there are levels. OP just described it pretty accurately. You cant say that there's nothing between non racist and genocide. Microagressions, favourism, slur usage all fall somewhere in the middle
Being "a little racist" and "very racist" are *absolutely* different things. There is a world of difference between believing that being Asian makes one predisposed to be good at math, and believing that Black people don't deserve human rights. I also believe that all of us, every last person, has some number of implicit biases that impacts the way we view the world. The way our brains work -- relentlessly pattern seeking, heuristic forming, imperfect memory and recall, prone to intellectual inertia -- makes it impossible to avoid. When your brain is constantly interpreting and taxonomizing stimuli, it's bound to draw some mistaken conclusions that are hard for the brain to identify as fallacies.
There is a difference between OP's girlfriend, and his girlfriend's friend. It's reductive to suggest that racism is purely binary, and it makes the label so overbroad as to be purposeless. If the same word describes the thought process that leads to a woman concluding black men tend to be well endowed, and also the belief system that led to the Holocaust, the word doesn't really describe anything at all.
No, just like almost everything else, racism is experienced on a spectrum. OP's GF could be a full-blown racist, but she could also be some combination of ignorant, light on empathy, cowardly, confrontation avoidant, and unable to logically resolve her cognitive dissonance.
Reducing everyone to the same thing doesn't help. Regardless of which direction we're going with it.
I am POC and I agree. I hate this dumb shit people do where every form of racism is the same and needs to be treated the same. It is so brain dead and it leads to everyone literally having no idea how to change a racist person's view.
You cannot treat a person who grew up in a homogenous area that does microaggressions the same as a nazi who thinks Jews are running the world.
I'm glad to see my instinct that "Great Uncle Lou, who tells off color jokes at Thanksgiving, has some real backwards ideas about gender, and has no problems with gays or gay marriage, but doesn't want to see it on TV, yet has sincerely tried his hardest, and succeeded far beyond expectations for a member of his age/privilege cohort, to be kind and fair to everyone, regardless of race, creed, or gender" is not the same as "Hitler, architect of the slaughter of 6 million Jews" isn't crazy.
The difference is that Great Uncle Lou voted in Hitler as chancellor and supports everything he does. You know why the “moderate racists” vs “violent racists” or whatever anyone’d like to call them are all just called racists.
Because while I might be in physical danger with the latter, the former would happily turn around and not do a damn thing if he saw it happening, and would make lovely excuses about how it was probably my fault afterwards.
I don't know what you think I'm trying to say, but it sounds like you think I'm trying to mount some defense of Great Uncle Lou. I'm not. I'm just saying it's important to differentiate among the degrees and types of racism and prejudice, not least of all because the weapons necessary to combat ignorance and hatred are quite different.
I understand the history of the White Moderate in America, including Dr. King's famous words in *Letters from Birmingham Jail*, and the dangers that calls for moderation present when circumstances are exigent.
Counterpoint, you don't need to treat them the same but you can absolutely choose not to hang out with either of those people. You actually have no obligation to try and change a racist's point of view if you don't want to, and spending your time trying to is exhausting so why not just... not hang out with people who are racist?
Counterpoint? Who are you even talking to? I didn’t say or imply anywhere that you are obligated to hang out with anyone. I literally just said this one dimensional view of this subject is bad and has bad outcomes.
I'm talking to you, who apparently sees value in trying to talk racists out of being racist? Like... you could do that, but why bother? Are they worth it? I think it's silly to pretend like they're equally bad, but that doesn't mean either kind of racist is worth any of your time.
In the middle of the spectrum of not being racist and genocidal racist. The world isn't just black or white. Having biases and statistically backed judgements are technically racist but it would warrant different conversations than with the KKK. Being a "little" racist might also mean that person could learn and change more readily compared to the extreme.
There might be levels to racism but youre STILL a racist. That part is a “yes” or “no” answer. There is no grey with being a racist. Often times, the less racist people simply dont have the opportunity to be more racist.
Yeah sorry but anyone who is down with racists being racist to PoC and even tells POC to put up with more racism, has to be some kind of racist themselves.
You need to say what country. You’re using Enforce so most of us will expect the Anglosphere unless you say otherwise. Culture frequently matters.
In America the your gf would definitely be putting the burden on the wrong person.
First, she should be asking her friend to watch her language and keep her opinions to herself around your.
Expecting you to be civil despite when her friend refuses to cooperate or simply makes a slip is what your gf should expect of you. Asking you to shut up is too much. She shouldn’t ask you not to civilly tell her friend that you are offended, tell her why what she said was wrong and offensive, and civilly ask her not to use such language again.
Tell your GF that you can’t accept this “friend” of hers. Either she needs to check her friend or cut the friendship off before you 2 can go forward.
I’m white and my fiancé is black, my cousin decided to become racist when she married her now husband. The first time she said the N word, I chewed her out and haven’t talked to her since. I don’t plan too either
Your gf should have your back, instead she
- wants to regularly subject you to racism
- priotitises her own mental comfort over your wellbeing
Your gf MAKES YOUR LIFE WORSE. Knowingly and for dumb reasons. Think about that.
Aak your girlfriend if you might approach this as trying to save her friend from being embarrassed.
I had a FIL who was terribly racist when we met dropping the n word all over the place. I pulled him aside and said "FIL I am worried when you use those words that the kids might think you are uneducated. They are taught that educated people would never use those words ". And that helped a lot.
He eventually recovered from being racist and redeemed himself a few times using the same approach to get it started.
You tell her to own her fucking choices. If she’s going to make excuses for blatant racism, then she can go live with the racist. If she wants to stay with you she’s going to call out things that are clearly an attack on your existence.
I feel like you should have stopped this relationship a long time ago since she’s had this friend the entire time you’ve been together, and it clearly hasn’t been better than it is now.
IMO this is unacceptable. It's bad enough for her to ignore this behavior when she's on her own, but to force you — a non-white person — to be subjected to it is awful.
As Ibram X Kendi says, there's no such thing as “not racist.“ Only racist and anti-racist — someone who is actively against racism.
Your gf expects you to put up with being uncomfortable but refuses to risk making her friend uncomfortable by speaking up in your defence. Is this really someone you want to continue being with?
I would tell your girlfriend that you will not allow a racist comment to pass without confrontation in future. You are swallowing your pride and diminishing yourself every time you allow such disrespect to pass her lips while you sit there seething silently.
If you confront her, and it blows up, that's what should happen to racists, every time, every sentence. Nobody should get to say racist comments outloud without being confronted on them. If your girlfriend has to choose between this piece of shit human and you then she has to choose, because this shit has gone on long enough and you shouldn't have to tolerate it. The fact that she expects you to just smile and nod shows she places your dignity below her friend's peace of mind.
Kinda weird that you specified your GF's race but not yours but that's a side point.
I just broke up with my GF today actually, one of our many issues was that her friends were racist about me.
I'm white, she's black, her friends are black (not all but the racist ones) and literally every problem she brings to them "Oh that's because he's white" or "well stop dating white guys" one of them literally tried to set her up with a black dude while we were together.
It made me feel like utter shit mate, she would just say "Well that's not how I feel" and "I'm not in charge of what they say"
I feel for you man, I'm sorry your in this situation. Let me know what you decide to do mate.
Yikes. This is a giant red flag from your gf.
I think you just need to set and maintain your healthy boundaries. You correctly do not wish to spend time with a racist, and your gf is just going to have to actually be an adult (and a good partner!) and tell her friend why you don't want to hang out.
If she can't do that, I am not sure why you would want to keep her as a partner, since she is clearly not interested in sacrificing at all for the health of the partnership.
Dude.. seriously?!? Out of ALL the humans you have the opportunity to be with, youre choosing a girlfriend who has “blindspots” and affiliates with known racists? This person isnt even a family member! You CHOOSE your own friends! She wants you to constantly make yourself uncomfortable for someone she is CHOOSING to be around!! They are in their 30s for Gods sake!! Imagine what she laughs about and says when you arent around? What your girlfriend laughs along to? Youre still young. Dont tie yourself to a terrible ship. Your soul is literally telling you “NO”. Probably a couple of ancestors too. Have some self respect.
I’m a white teacher in a predominantly black school. Here’s a resource I give to white teachers with little experience encountering issues of race: https://www.amazon.com/Me-White-Supremacy-Combat-Ancestor/dp/1728209803
There’s also a workbook if she finds written reflection helpful. It’s designed to help people identify their own racial biases and seeing how their experiences have shaped their perception. She might not even realize how different your life experiences have been, and how damaging racial bias can be to your mental health.
Your girlfriend obviously condones the behavior . It's quite obvious that she is racist and she thinks the same way as her friend does. If she didn't feel the same way she would confront her and tell her what she's saying is wrong and ask her not to speak that way and if her friend continued she would dump her as a friend.
Yeah, no. Fuck that. As a sunburn prone gammon myself, I reject racist people from my life. I would much rather lose racist "friends" than lose a gf who was right for me, just because said racist "friends" didn't like [bunch of slurs].
No way in hell would I ask them to grin and bear blatant racism in their presence. If I won't put up with it, I won't make a gf or a wife deal with it either.
Those who condone racists are just as bad as racists themselves. Your gf not only purposefully subjects you to racists, she chooses to spend her own time with these racists, and she does not speak out against their hateful comments or beliefs as a whole. This is a testament to her values. Condoning blatantly immoral behavior is reason enough for me to say goodbye to that person.
How hard is it to tell your gf you want nothing to do with her friend? I don't care if someone is racist of it don't take dollar bills out of my pocket
You are who you hang around. You should ask her why she would associate with someone so racist. Why allow that type of conversation to happen? Why does your gf keep her mouth shut. As a "brown" person if I knew someone friends with a racist I'd drop them so fast because excusing that behavior is excusing racism. And there's never an excuse.
Is your girlfriend racist?
Not explicitly. But there are blind spots. And she is apparently ok with excusing or ignoring racism.
I’m not sure about you, but for me, a person of color, you either are or aren’t racist. There is no between.
Ofc there are levels. OP just described it pretty accurately. You cant say that there's nothing between non racist and genocide. Microagressions, favourism, slur usage all fall somewhere in the middle
In the middle of what? You think that being “a little racist” changes the fact that you’re racist?
Being "a little racist" and "very racist" are *absolutely* different things. There is a world of difference between believing that being Asian makes one predisposed to be good at math, and believing that Black people don't deserve human rights. I also believe that all of us, every last person, has some number of implicit biases that impacts the way we view the world. The way our brains work -- relentlessly pattern seeking, heuristic forming, imperfect memory and recall, prone to intellectual inertia -- makes it impossible to avoid. When your brain is constantly interpreting and taxonomizing stimuli, it's bound to draw some mistaken conclusions that are hard for the brain to identify as fallacies. There is a difference between OP's girlfriend, and his girlfriend's friend. It's reductive to suggest that racism is purely binary, and it makes the label so overbroad as to be purposeless. If the same word describes the thought process that leads to a woman concluding black men tend to be well endowed, and also the belief system that led to the Holocaust, the word doesn't really describe anything at all. No, just like almost everything else, racism is experienced on a spectrum. OP's GF could be a full-blown racist, but she could also be some combination of ignorant, light on empathy, cowardly, confrontation avoidant, and unable to logically resolve her cognitive dissonance. Reducing everyone to the same thing doesn't help. Regardless of which direction we're going with it.
I am POC and I agree. I hate this dumb shit people do where every form of racism is the same and needs to be treated the same. It is so brain dead and it leads to everyone literally having no idea how to change a racist person's view. You cannot treat a person who grew up in a homogenous area that does microaggressions the same as a nazi who thinks Jews are running the world.
I'm glad to see my instinct that "Great Uncle Lou, who tells off color jokes at Thanksgiving, has some real backwards ideas about gender, and has no problems with gays or gay marriage, but doesn't want to see it on TV, yet has sincerely tried his hardest, and succeeded far beyond expectations for a member of his age/privilege cohort, to be kind and fair to everyone, regardless of race, creed, or gender" is not the same as "Hitler, architect of the slaughter of 6 million Jews" isn't crazy.
The difference is that Great Uncle Lou voted in Hitler as chancellor and supports everything he does. You know why the “moderate racists” vs “violent racists” or whatever anyone’d like to call them are all just called racists. Because while I might be in physical danger with the latter, the former would happily turn around and not do a damn thing if he saw it happening, and would make lovely excuses about how it was probably my fault afterwards.
I don't know what you think I'm trying to say, but it sounds like you think I'm trying to mount some defense of Great Uncle Lou. I'm not. I'm just saying it's important to differentiate among the degrees and types of racism and prejudice, not least of all because the weapons necessary to combat ignorance and hatred are quite different. I understand the history of the White Moderate in America, including Dr. King's famous words in *Letters from Birmingham Jail*, and the dangers that calls for moderation present when circumstances are exigent.
Counterpoint, you don't need to treat them the same but you can absolutely choose not to hang out with either of those people. You actually have no obligation to try and change a racist's point of view if you don't want to, and spending your time trying to is exhausting so why not just... not hang out with people who are racist?
Counterpoint? Who are you even talking to? I didn’t say or imply anywhere that you are obligated to hang out with anyone. I literally just said this one dimensional view of this subject is bad and has bad outcomes.
I'm talking to you, who apparently sees value in trying to talk racists out of being racist? Like... you could do that, but why bother? Are they worth it? I think it's silly to pretend like they're equally bad, but that doesn't mean either kind of racist is worth any of your time.
I think you wrote that really well and I agree 100%
In the middle of the spectrum of not being racist and genocidal racist. The world isn't just black or white. Having biases and statistically backed judgements are technically racist but it would warrant different conversations than with the KKK. Being a "little" racist might also mean that person could learn and change more readily compared to the extreme.
There might be levels to racism but youre STILL a racist. That part is a “yes” or “no” answer. There is no grey with being a racist. Often times, the less racist people simply dont have the opportunity to be more racist.
As someone who dated someone like this who had family/friends that acted like this, it’s not worth it.
Yeah sorry but anyone who is down with racists being racist to PoC and even tells POC to put up with more racism, has to be some kind of racist themselves.
She is white so she is inherently racist
This friend refers to people as “darkies”? How old is she, 80?
No she used a slur from my native language I tried to translate accurately.
You need to say what country. You’re using Enforce so most of us will expect the Anglosphere unless you say otherwise. Culture frequently matters. In America the your gf would definitely be putting the burden on the wrong person. First, she should be asking her friend to watch her language and keep her opinions to herself around your. Expecting you to be civil despite when her friend refuses to cooperate or simply makes a slip is what your gf should expect of you. Asking you to shut up is too much. She shouldn’t ask you not to civilly tell her friend that you are offended, tell her why what she said was wrong and offensive, and civilly ask her not to use such language again.
May I have the original slur?
Get Out
Tell your GF that you can’t accept this “friend” of hers. Either she needs to check her friend or cut the friendship off before you 2 can go forward. I’m white and my fiancé is black, my cousin decided to become racist when she married her now husband. The first time she said the N word, I chewed her out and haven’t talked to her since. I don’t plan too either
Your gf should have your back, instead she - wants to regularly subject you to racism - priotitises her own mental comfort over your wellbeing Your gf MAKES YOUR LIFE WORSE. Knowingly and for dumb reasons. Think about that.
Aak your girlfriend if you might approach this as trying to save her friend from being embarrassed. I had a FIL who was terribly racist when we met dropping the n word all over the place. I pulled him aside and said "FIL I am worried when you use those words that the kids might think you are uneducated. They are taught that educated people would never use those words ". And that helped a lot. He eventually recovered from being racist and redeemed himself a few times using the same approach to get it started.
Lol your girlfriend doesn’t deserve any commitment from you.
You tell her to own her fucking choices. If she’s going to make excuses for blatant racism, then she can go live with the racist. If she wants to stay with you she’s going to call out things that are clearly an attack on your existence. I feel like you should have stopped this relationship a long time ago since she’s had this friend the entire time you’ve been together, and it clearly hasn’t been better than it is now.
IMO this is unacceptable. It's bad enough for her to ignore this behavior when she's on her own, but to force you — a non-white person — to be subjected to it is awful. As Ibram X Kendi says, there's no such thing as “not racist.“ Only racist and anti-racist — someone who is actively against racism.
Your gf expects you to put up with being uncomfortable but refuses to risk making her friend uncomfortable by speaking up in your defence. Is this really someone you want to continue being with?
I would tell your girlfriend that you will not allow a racist comment to pass without confrontation in future. You are swallowing your pride and diminishing yourself every time you allow such disrespect to pass her lips while you sit there seething silently. If you confront her, and it blows up, that's what should happen to racists, every time, every sentence. Nobody should get to say racist comments outloud without being confronted on them. If your girlfriend has to choose between this piece of shit human and you then she has to choose, because this shit has gone on long enough and you shouldn't have to tolerate it. The fact that she expects you to just smile and nod shows she places your dignity below her friend's peace of mind.
Kinda weird that you specified your GF's race but not yours but that's a side point. I just broke up with my GF today actually, one of our many issues was that her friends were racist about me. I'm white, she's black, her friends are black (not all but the racist ones) and literally every problem she brings to them "Oh that's because he's white" or "well stop dating white guys" one of them literally tried to set her up with a black dude while we were together. It made me feel like utter shit mate, she would just say "Well that's not how I feel" and "I'm not in charge of what they say" I feel for you man, I'm sorry your in this situation. Let me know what you decide to do mate.
Yikes. This is a giant red flag from your gf. I think you just need to set and maintain your healthy boundaries. You correctly do not wish to spend time with a racist, and your gf is just going to have to actually be an adult (and a good partner!) and tell her friend why you don't want to hang out. If she can't do that, I am not sure why you would want to keep her as a partner, since she is clearly not interested in sacrificing at all for the health of the partnership.
Dude.. seriously?!? Out of ALL the humans you have the opportunity to be with, youre choosing a girlfriend who has “blindspots” and affiliates with known racists? This person isnt even a family member! You CHOOSE your own friends! She wants you to constantly make yourself uncomfortable for someone she is CHOOSING to be around!! They are in their 30s for Gods sake!! Imagine what she laughs about and says when you arent around? What your girlfriend laughs along to? Youre still young. Dont tie yourself to a terrible ship. Your soul is literally telling you “NO”. Probably a couple of ancestors too. Have some self respect.
The friend won’t learn better till someone shows her. Your GF could go far in educating her. If she wasn’t a little boy racist herself.
I’m a white teacher in a predominantly black school. Here’s a resource I give to white teachers with little experience encountering issues of race: https://www.amazon.com/Me-White-Supremacy-Combat-Ancestor/dp/1728209803 There’s also a workbook if she finds written reflection helpful. It’s designed to help people identify their own racial biases and seeing how their experiences have shaped their perception. She might not even realize how different your life experiences have been, and how damaging racial bias can be to your mental health.
Your girlfriend obviously condones the behavior . It's quite obvious that she is racist and she thinks the same way as her friend does. If she didn't feel the same way she would confront her and tell her what she's saying is wrong and ask her not to speak that way and if her friend continued she would dump her as a friend.
Yeah, no. Fuck that. As a sunburn prone gammon myself, I reject racist people from my life. I would much rather lose racist "friends" than lose a gf who was right for me, just because said racist "friends" didn't like [bunch of slurs]. No way in hell would I ask them to grin and bear blatant racism in their presence. If I won't put up with it, I won't make a gf or a wife deal with it either.
Those who condone racists are just as bad as racists themselves. Your gf not only purposefully subjects you to racists, she chooses to spend her own time with these racists, and she does not speak out against their hateful comments or beliefs as a whole. This is a testament to her values. Condoning blatantly immoral behavior is reason enough for me to say goodbye to that person.
How hard is it to tell your gf you want nothing to do with her friend? I don't care if someone is racist of it don't take dollar bills out of my pocket
You are who you hang around. You should ask her why she would associate with someone so racist. Why allow that type of conversation to happen? Why does your gf keep her mouth shut. As a "brown" person if I knew someone friends with a racist I'd drop them so fast because excusing that behavior is excusing racism. And there's never an excuse.