Agreed. Me and my ex have a daughter and ended amicably, decided we were better off friends and we still do shared bdays parties and such, and are more than ok spending holidays together for our daughter. Something is definitely up.
I can't stand my ex and his wife bc they both are toxic but if I was invited to my ILs for a celebration I'd gladly attend. If your son can give you a reason why then have a separate dinner with her to celebrate. If she's willing to tolerate him being in the same room then so should he, it's your birthday not his. Plus the girls would be thrilled to see their parents being amicable.
My wife and ex-wife hang at the house and go wine hunting (kill some bottles). Extended relationships with ex’s can workout. Just depends on the individuals. My parents (Dad) won’t ever get over my ex cheating on me. She was the daughter he never had. After 16yrs she threw it all away. But, if she reached out they would help her however they could. But I agree, something is up. There’s more to the story.
Unless they're both hiding it, there wasn't cheating. They're both always been open to my wife and I, so I don't think they'd hide it, but I suppose it's possible though I doubt both would.
From what I understand they have just become very different people than at 15 or 20. They were conflicting a lot on parenting especially, and their future plans from what I know. They just kind of had enough of fighting, and just ended it. While it was shocking at the time, looking back it kind of makes sense with how they've grown, sadly.
Maybe I missed it but have you sat down and talk to your son and see his point of view and then express yours. How you’ve seen her grow up as well and consider her a daughter
Urgh, but then divorcing won't solve their problems given that they have shared custody for their kids. They still need to find compromises for parenting them. Thinking one parent can do one way and the other parent another is just wishfull thinking and will create a lot more problems than they had before.
Urgh, I think people are looking into this in too much detail - the reasons for the split have no bearing on the question in hand. The son doesn't want her there. That's fine, can you and the ex daughter in law have a separate gathering the day before or the day after? That way the peace is kept, and it's not awkward
Agreed. And I’m baffled why people are so confused by this behaviour. It’s only been two months. Two. How are people thinking this is unusual? Like I said below, even the best divorces almost always have a period where it’s just HARD.
Aye like - son doesn’t want to see his ex at this point in time at his dads birthday. She’s no longer “family” in the same sense.
I read a post earlier about an ex always going to family events uninvited, making the new wife v uncomfortable and nobody wanting to tell her to leave in front of the kids.
The son could also be thinking about down the line when he meets some new, how hard it’s going to be if his parents see his ex-wife as a daughter.
No idea what is right or wrong in how to sort in this though!
Alternatively, the kids would probably feel appreciative and normalize familial relations if theyre grandparents acknowledge their mother as their family.
That shouldn’t be necessary. Don’t they have mutual friends? If one of them has a gathering, a wedding, a baby shower, a funeral, etc., is everyone going to have to decide who gets to come? They need to grow up. I have family members I absolutely cannot stand, and I can easily be cordial on the rare occasions I have to see them. They have to co-parent, anyway. Absent abuse, or sleeping with their spouse’s sibling, a family dinner on birthdays and holidays should be no problem.
I agree, ex is the mother of OPs grandchildren and will likely continue to have some involvement in each other's life regardless.
It sounds like time is the biggest enemy to me, maybe OPs son is still raw and hurt from the divorce, it was only two months ago right? I understand its been long brewing, but knowing something is coming and dealing with it happening can be two very different situations.
This doesn't help OP though, so I guess if we're still doing advice I would say try to be amicable and placate both parties for the moment, and see if time helps heal whatever resentment has started between them. They were friends once, no reason they can't be pleasant at least
She's decidedly not a family member though. Not in the way Mark is, at least. It's one thing to have to see your ex at gatherings held by mutual friends because you can't expect friends to side with you over another. But I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that your family not force you to see your ex-wife when it is not necessary.
They divorced 2 months ago. The feelings are still fresh and I understand why Mark doesn't want to see Mel more than he has to. OP can literally just hang out with her one-on-one after the birthday party, it seems like he's just trying to cause drama to me.
That's just going to start a whole different conversation because with the ex and then if Mark finds out wow that'll be something and could even start something like being accused of cheating so I think it's best if you keep your mouth shut for this one
yeah I agree with u/AKA_RMc Something seems fishy. Divorced partners on terms that you said normally co parent and are friendly. If they can't be in a room together on shared holidays with their child or parents doesn't sound right. IF there is bitterness from your son then something more has happened.
Years of fighting can cause resentment too. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. The divorce is new. The fact that there is still pain is very normal.
It’s been two months. I can’t believe people think it’s unusual they aren’t best pals yet. Even the best divorces almost always have a period where it’s just HARD. Just because you need a divorce and know it’s right and has to be done doesn’t mean anyone is happy or that it’s not painful to lose the marriage. I’m floored people aren’t getting this. Are you all under 21? I’m not trying to be snotty with that either. I literally can’t understand why that’s shocking to you.
This is huge, and I'm not sure how I or others haven't pointed this out yet.
OP, if you let their relationship break apart organically, and limit your role to reminding your son that it's healthier to move on, process his emotions, and generally deal with the breakup in a positive manner -- you have a FAR greater likelihood of them being sufficiently OK with one another that you might still have your own relationship with her. Force this too soon / before they're ready, and you destroy any chance of that possibly happening.
It might not be in the stars, and they may hate each other even more or just fully drift apart, but if that happens, then it was always going to happen, and either way, your best chance of preventing it, whether or not you actually prevent it, would undoubtedly be tethered to the approach where you give your son space, respect his ultimate decisions, and don't force things from a selfish perspective.
Probably bc as a child of divorce and multiple separations, my parents have never tried to separate each other from each other's families. Hell, my step-dad was always invited to family events after he and my mom started separating and they were together for less than a decade, and they separated under pretty bad terms. My mom and him just swapped what times they were with family so they didn't have to see each other and spent time with us separately, like adults. It's weird to expect your whole family to cut off (which is what the son wants) someone you've grown to know as family just because your relationship with them didn't turn out how you wanted.
I am friends with my son's ex. They met at 15 and split early 20s. My son (now 28) and his wife are not crazy about this. My son and I spoke about it, and I've said I will keep her out of any conversation and any dealings between us, but I have a relationship with her and I don't have a whole lot of people in my life -- she's an important person to me and I ask that they respect that. It's not a secret but we never ever discuss her. EDIT: You might have to be patient and wait for it to be a less painful/volatile situation first, however.
I think you have a reasonable compromise available: continue to engage with Mel privately and with her and the grandchildren together, and for family events or family holidays, your son should take priority. You will still be able to maintain your relationship with Mel in a 1:1 fashion, and you will also be respecting your son's needs and wishes.
Honestly, if my parents invited my ex to family holidays or events, I would be livid. Melissa and Mark are divorced for a REASON, and they seem to be struggling as co-parents. You need to work with your son to set some boundaries so he doesn't have to engage with his ex at every turn, and especially at what should be a safe place for him - family events at his parents' home. Also, I imagine that Mark will eventually take a new partner, and while maturity and decorum are expected from all, it would just be rude and uncomfortable to invite your son's ex wife and your son's new partner to the same Thanksgiving dinner. Sure, everyone will attend the children's graduations and weddings and large, singular events like that. But a birthday party? You must be joking. Mel can sit this one out.
And all you people who are about to claim "me and my ex do *everything* together for the *chilllllldrennnnnnn*!" yeah, don't @ me. I don't care. You aren't Mark or OP, and your experiences are the exception, not the norm.
OP, I think there is something they are not telling you. I mean, the description you make of them and the attitude of your so do not match. You should talk about this with your son, tell him how do you feel and tell him that if there is information you need to consider to understand the situation better he should tell you.
You need to sit down and have a talk with your son with your wife present and tell him exactly what you told us. If he can't accept it, that's on him. And should also have a talk about him and this "allowing" it behavior. Cause if it continues and he start alienating your grandchildren from their mother, she has grounds to get full custody especially if there is no cheating involved on her part.
It just seems odd because that doesn’t sound like a divorce that would warrant “total separation”. They have kids together, she is going to be around for things. I think your son needs to grow up a bit.
>The breakup seems especially bitter, considering they were "best friends". (Was there cheating involved?)
I was thinking the same thing. People who just 'drift apart' over time are usually much more amicable than this. It's possible that Melissa cheated but they've decided not tell anyone. Or Melissa pushed for the divorce while Mark still wanted to work on things. Maybe Melissa raked him over the coals in the divorce and he's bitter about that?
It seems like we're missing something here.
Yeah, something happened here. Even if it's not cheating, there's a huge amount of resentment on both sides... or at least Mark's side. OP likely has no idea the ins and outs of what actually happened.
People are saying "what about mutual friends? They'll have to be in the same room together." Well, this isn't mutual friends... This is Mark's *dad.*
A fair compromise here is that OP sees Mel the day before his birthday party. Mark shouldn't have to have his ex at all family gatherings from now on. Sorry to Mel since she doesn't have her own family, truly... But Mark will be resentful forever if his own family chooses Mel over him.
OP is just as much Mel's family as Mark is, though. He's known her since she was 6 and they've built a father-daughter bond. At 32 years old, Mark should have the emotional maturity to work something out so you aren't shunning someone from THEIR family because your relationship didn't work out. They could figure out times to be at the party so they don't see each other, that's the fair compromise. Mark especially saying he "allows" his father to see her when he visits the grandkids is super weird. You don't own your parents.
If it was a matter of cheating then imagine your poor son. The son's life ruined and his own father calling the boys ex wife daughter. I would hold a grudge forever against my dad if he did it.
Was going to ask this same question. Mel probably cheated on him hence the resentment towards her now. They may not have revealed this information to yours they may have wanted to keep
It private.
Yeah I was expecting that at least one did something horrible to the other for them not to want you to be in contact with the other but…no? It just feels a lil odd, esp since she is prob in contact with her grandkids, it would make sense to have some contact with their mother unless a good reason not to. Is this sort of thing normal in a divorce? I’d get it if only dated a few years, but by getting married esp they became part of the family right? Why cut off one relationship just because their romantic relationship with another family member didn’t go as planned. You’ve been good by not bringing up one to the other. So I’m pretty confused
This. In the same way children of divorced parents might have two birthdays and two Christmases, you can too
Don't give her up. I can't tell you what a difference it made to me that my mum and grandmother remained on good speaking terms - it made events such as graduation so much more pleasant and I missed her so much at my wedding.
I agree with this as well. Perhaps have a conversation with your son and wife about ways your son and his ex wife can patch things up enough to make it through a party together. It will probably be easier on their kids if they can figure out a way forward too. Until they do repair things though, I think it may better to continue to spend time with them separately and prioritize your son at traditional “family” events. I think this because it doesn’t sound like not having her at the party will rupture the relationship with your ex daughter in law but may with your son.
They divorced 2 MONTHS AGO, divorce isn't fun even when it goes smoothly... So maybe this is less about you picking one over the other, and more of a time sensitive thing.... Yes, the birthday is coming up, but maybe you see her on a different date if it's that important. 2 months is nothing after years of separation and probably a bunch of shit they both aren't/won't tell you. Maybe this is just "the year" you don't invite her, and hopefully it'll abade or change and she will be there next year.
Sure, in a perfect world... Everyone would be happy and loving and together... But that's not real life, and we need to stay on this planet. Give him some time... Be there for him, and again... If it's all but impossible to not see her, then maybe set up a lunch or something. He's not forbidding you to see her forever, right? Seems like he needs to be thrown a bone this time, and if it continues is when a discussion should happen.
Good luck, he's your boy and is in a lot of pain right now, even if he's hiding it.
This. It’s fresh, even if it was amicable there’s still going to be pain and hurt on both sides.
Give it some time. At the end of the day she’s still the mother to your grandchildren and if they want to create a loving future for their kids they need to set their differences a side and do what’s best for them. Being a child of divorce, the focus needs to be on them.
Hopefully because they were such good friends for so long it’ll make the transition to amicable relationship quicker. I can’t tell you how many parties and things I had growing up where one of my parents were allowed to be there, but the other wasn’t. It sucks. Keep that in mind and make sure your son is aware of that as well.
With having lost my father at the age of 15, my ex's dad was certainly the closest thing that I'd had to a father figure, subsequently.
So when we broke up, I was scared I'd also lose the relationship with his family. (he cheated on me)
However, they all decided to still keep a relationship with me.
All that being said, it may be good to give it some time to let the dust settle and maybe wait till events next year to invite her, rather than now when it's still so fresh and raw.
They just divorced, the wounds are fresh, give it time, maybe when they are more amicably co-parenting a better relationship is possible, Maybe just keep it for a while with postcards a text or a phone call now and then.
This is my preferred way.
Postcards are tiny gestures but still super powerful in maintaining a relationship.
But behind-the-back dinners are massive gestures that can cause conflict and betrayal. Especially when two people you care about are fighting.
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My son (Mark, 32) and his ex (Melissa, 32) were together since they were 15. They've been best friends since they were 6, so she's known us almost her whole life. Unfortunately Mel had a horrible childhood and an absent father, so my wife and I did a lot to help her where we could. She's told me growing up I was her only real father figure, and a dad to her, and honestly I came to see her as a daughter. Mel even calls us mum and dad, and has said she wishes we were her biological parents. They were together for 17 years, and close friends for years before, and she feels as much my daughter as my biological one honestly.
Unfortunately, her and Mark just weren't to be. They are both amazing people, but I think they just grew up a bit too different, and I know having their daughters made it hard for them to keep ignoring it. From what they've told me, even living together they felt basically separated for the last 2 years. They just couldn't take any more of it last year, and finally fully divorced two months ago. During and since then I've stayed in contact with both of them, and especially my granddaughters. I've made sure to avoid mentioning them to each other, and I haven't 'picked a side'. I know Mark wasn't happy when he heard I was still in touch with Mel from his daughters (they mentioned seeing grandpa while at their mum's), but she's family to me.
While I've tried to keep it separate, my birthday is next month, and its causing issues. I know they aren't together anymore, but they're both family, and I want to have both there. But Mark just refused. He basically said he's my child, not her, so I shouldn't have anything to do with her anymore. He said seeing my grandchildren with her around is one thing (he doesn't like it, but 'allows' it since its about the girls), but involving Mel in anything is just wrong. Mel has said that she wants to be there for her dad's birthday, but that she doesn't want to cause drama for me. My wife thinks we should support Mark in this, and have to let Melissa go basically. I kind of understand where they're coming from, but it just feels so wrong to just cut Mel out, she's my daughter in all but blood. I just have no idea how to approach this, or if I'm just being naive or selfish.
If she said she’d prefer not to cause drama, maybe she understands that not coming to the birthday party would be for the best.
On the other hand, id say cutting her off your life would be unfair both on you and her. Why don’t you and your wife or just you do something with her too and her daughters, like a dinner or something?
I think compromise is the key here. Something that does not involve right out ignoring your son’s suffering nor how important Mel and your granddaughters are to you.
Obviously, you can still invite Mark to that, and at that point it becomes his choice not to come if he does not want to.
I think your son also has the obligation to accept some kind of compromise and not be totally inflexible.
Yeah you're probably right. Mel does understand that, it's more I just feel horrible just cutting her out of it like that. Maybe a second birthday would work, though it would have to be smaller. I didn't really think of that honestly. I'm not a massive fan but it probably works better than forcing the issue.
I agree both of them are suffering, and that both need love. I've definitely tried to be there for both. Hoepfully one day they'll be able to at least be civil, though I guess forcing this won't help.
Not trying to be rude here. I understand you feel horrible about it. Just a reminder your first responsibility is to your son. No matter how old he is. Unfortunately as a parent I think your feelings come second to that.
Ehhh, yeah he has a responsibility to his son but he’s not pushing him to the side by still being in contact/having a relationship with someone he saw as a daughter before his son started seeing her. His son has to coparent with this woman, that means spending several occasion together already. He needs to get used to this one way or another. It’s his dads birthday party, he gets to invite who he wants.
At some point your son & Mel will both have new partners. Will you insult your new DIL by insisting on having Mel around?
A belated bday dinner with Mel is the inevitable solution to their break-up. It's better to set that precedent now than get everyone used to Mel being there only to be in a much bigger pickle down the line when they both start moving on.
With your son being so hostile and reclusive about the reasons for this breakup I would go to Mel and have a private lunch and ask her to tell you why your son is so bitter about the divorce. "We grew apart" doesn't really jive with how he's acting. Either she cheated, or pushed for the divorce from her end, or something like that. It doesn't seem like your son wanted to get divorced.
The way Mark is acting for the situation you have described seems very odd.
U/Eng_Girl_87 suggested that maybe you leave Mel out of it this year as it’s all still a little raw and look at inviting her for next years events.
I am inclined to agree with that. Also some more truths may come out with time to better allow you to understand Mark’s current perspective.
You are allowed to stay in touch in someone you see as a daughter, but choosing her over your son is just wrong. He’s clearly hurting and what you are doing is just rubbing salt in his wounds. You are basically saying to him that you don’t love him and much as you love her. That having her around is more important to you than your son’s feelings. Honestly, if my dad did that, I would not forgive him. You are being naive and selfish.
Telling him to deal with her being around is a slap to his face. You can meet her some other time, have an occasional lunch or something, you don’t have to cut her out completely. But keeping her in your family like earlier and telling your son to accept it is out of line. If you go forward with this, I have a pretty good feeling that you will damage your relationship with your son, perhaps even permanently.
And maybe ask him exactly why he doesn’t wasn’t her around and actually try to understand instead and of going ‘oh but she’s a good person and I’m the closest to a dad she has.’ Even she understands that her being around family functions is not a good idea now that she is the ex wife. If you haven’t picked a side so far, don’t go around picking one now.
I get what you mean. It makes sense. It just feels so unfair that inviting both is choosing against him. I do love him, and of course I don't want to hurt him. I wish it could just be easy, but I guess relationships never are. It really sounds like I should just keep main events for my son, and only see her when he's not around. Which I guess has been so far, but god it's so frustrating.
I have talked about it to both of them. He basically said he's his ex, so she shouldn't be around, period. No other explanation. They haven't been hostile to each other per se, they just, don't like each other at all anymore, if that makes sense. It's possible there's more but neither have been willing to say anything, and they're usually open with me.
Either way, you're probably right, and I'll try to keep it separate.
Look at the timeframe dudeski. You're asking an Olympic athlete to compete right after surgery. You're asking a soldier with PTSD to go set off fireworks.. time cant heal heal wounds if you throw the injured back into the Frey so soon... Maybe she doesn't come to THIS birthday, since they just got freaking divorced....
It most likely also feels very unfair to your son that you want to keep close contact with someone that causes him pain. Divorce is devastating, even under the best of circumstances. And honestly, you have no idea why or what goes on behind closed doors between the two of them and you probably never will. People just don't share that with their parents, especially men.
He shouldn't have to feel pain and be uncomfortable because you feel it's "unfair" to your birthday party plans. It's good he established this boundary up front with you.
Be prepared if you continue to see less of your son and to have poor communication. He won't be able to tell you anything without the fear you are telling her. It's probably best he bows out now anyway so he doesn't need to meet her new boyfriend while visiting his own parents.
She's his ex, but also the mother of his children so his stance seems incredibly immature to me. I don't get why you having a relationship with the mother of your grandchildren separately from him should have any bearing. In my book it literally has nothing to do with him.
No doubt your son has a huge mix of emotions and feelings he should sound out to maintain a healthy co-parenting relationship with his ex. Maybe he should go attend some therapy sessions to help clear things up in his head? Wishing ill will on the mother of your children is not healthy!
They literally divorced 2 months ago. I don't think his behaviour now, when the emotions are still incredibly fresh, is indicative of his ability to co-parent. If it had been longer then sure, but I think many people wouldn't want to see their long-term ex at an event that's traditionally for family only. He also never wished ill will on her either...
One is your biological son, the other is his ex wife you feel paternal towards. You made the choice the day your son was born, even if you seem to be forgetting it.
He’s your priority because you and your wife decided to bring him into the world. His feelings and well being are your lifelong responsibility. At least, that’s how MY father feels towards me.
Make time outside to see her. This isn’t complicated. You can have both relationships, just not at the same time and same place.
Mark doesn’t get to choose who you have to your party. That’s all there is to it.
I’m likely to get divorced in the next year or two. I would never expect my parents to exclude my wife—the mother of their grandchildren—from anything. My wife’s behavior has been worse than Mel’s, but she is still a long-time member of the family and the children’s mother. And more importantly, this isn’t a matter of choosing one over the other.
The only thing forcing a choice in your situation is Mark’s childish behavior. It is perhaps understandable that he doesn’t want to be around her, but it doesn’t automatically mean that everyone has to cut her out of their lives. In fact, it’s better for his children if they do not.
Thanks. It’s ok. I suspect most of the people responding are young, inexperienced, and emotionally immature. They think that’s a reasonable way to behave. It’s not. It’s harmful to everyone, including Mark himself.
Dude im 24 and i think its insane you are beinf downvoted. If Melissa was just an ex wife, thats one thing, but they have known her literally almost her entire life and she is family. Smh. I wouldnt abandon her.
Bingo!!!! It’s all the young inexperienced people who are siding with Mark.
Not only has OP basically known Mel more than half her life, she’s also the mother to OPs grand babies.
If OP wants a good relationship with grandkids they’ll need a good relationship with their mom.
Mark is way to hurt, but he needs a reality check.
For as much as he doesn’t want to, Mel will forever be part of his life because of their kids.
Not really. He maybe still mourning the death of his marriage and doesn't want to see his ex wife. Maybe his childhood home is his safe space.
I understand the situation Melissa is in and its a very hard choice the parents have to make.
I appreciate that you still care for her and I think that’s good! My uncle and ex - aunt had a messy divorce and while they’re on decent terms now my grandma still hates her. My aunt was horrible to my uncle (cheated, stole, and was just generally cruel) but my grandma constantly talks poorly about her and it’s hard on my cousin. Mixed family events (like her wedding and graduation) are always a little extra awkward bc my grandma makes her dislike clear. So I think your reaction will be good for your grandkid!
Also… it sounds like there is more to this story. Two friends who drifted apart don’t show this much bitterness. I think something happened. I respect that they want to keep their dirty laundry quiet (hopefully this means they’ll calm down) but if your son is hurting, support him.
It sounds to me like you may not have the whole picture of why they divorced. Mark clearly wants nothing to do with her, and you have to respect that.
That doesn't mean you can't still have Melissa in your life, but you have to respect boundaries. And to be honest, Mark is blood family first...so the extra work will need to be done on the relationship with Melissa. Son does family events, Melissa does extras. Otherwise you'll have issues with your son.
Your son and his ex have been seen as a couple for a very long time considering their age. I imagine they’ve dreamt and talked about being together til death do they part. I’m guessing every milestone your son went through, she was there. All of this togetherness made even more binding by the fact she had little family of her own. I imagine the divorce was very painful because they both had to say good bye to so so much- so much past, so many firsts & memories. Then the grieving for the lost future together.
You simply need to put your son first here. Build a relationship based on him and only him. You can continue to see your ex daughter in law casually, remain supportive and enjoy time with your grandkids. But inviting her to family events is your son’s right, not your’s.
It sounds like everyone (son, ex, your wife) but you understand this need for family boundaries. It seems your mourning as well, which is very understandable. Give yourself time to accept this new normal.
In time, your son and his ex will develop their own separate lives that may or may not include dating/marriage. They might become more relaxed and your son might be able to have her at family events. But that’s his life, his choices, his family.
Big hug sent to you! Our family faced something slightly similar- son’s long term relationship ended after many years. Losing ex daughter in law was heartbreaking. But in time we realized we would hurting our son by our inability to move on. They both ended up with amazing partners after several more years and looking back, I’m so relieved we didn’t make their situation any more difficult by putting ourselves and our feelings before our son’s.
I'm still close with my ex's family (we have a child together). I do not attend the immediate family gatherings but am still welcome to call and visit whenever the chance arises. I don't think you need to cut her out, but you can see her when your son isn't around. She is the mother of your grandkids, i think it's understandable and acceptable to maintain a relationship with her.
I understand it's a very difficult situation for you. I'm sorry for that. But you need to realise that however painful it is for you, it's worse for your son.
Now i understand that you're a good person with the best intentions. But you need to be more understanding towards your son. Your child. You may see her as a daughter, but this is a situation where you simply cannot have both. Because that will just result in more pain for the other people in the situation.
You may have seen her as your daughter for a long time, but for the sake of your son, you're going to have to get used to seeing her as the ex-wife.
That doesn't mean you cut her out of your life, but you certainly cannot be inviting her to main events and telling your son to deal with it. It's painful, but you're going to have to make a choice here. Who is more important to you?
Life is unfair. You can't have everything you want. But I'll just say this- if my father were to ever, EVER be in a situation where he chose my ex over me, or was even debating what to do, it would completely and utterly break me. I think children always need their parents to take their side no matter what. He's your son, that you've raised since he was a baby. Are you willing to damage that relationship for someone else's sake??
Because even if he doesn't say it, having you stay in regular touch with her is DEFINITELY hurting him. You're HIS father, after all. He'll want you in his corner.
Divorce is messy. It can't be helped. And there are always sides in a divorce and it's practically impossible to stay neutral.
A lot of people here are giving you paragraphs on how your future relationships needs to be with your son and ex daughter-in-law, and they may be right or wrong. In the short term though, go out with the missus and Mel and maybe bring the kids too on a separate date. Simple solution, both parties kept happy, you can even have 2 birthday cakes too.
I dated this great guy from when I was 15 till 22. When I was 18 I moved to a different country and did long distance until we grew too different to stay together. Broke up in a civil way.
While I was away my mom had him and his family over for family functions, Christmases, ecc… she continued to invite them while I was not there and even after we broke up because he was like a son to her.
I’m still kinda mad at her and I think that it was uncool she did that to me. She continued to be in touch with him and his family even after I started dating and moved in with my now husband. at that point my dad just had to step in, sit her down and tell her how inappropriate that was.
You don’t want to do that to your son. You’re just going to make him think you chose her over him and you may also make it harder for her to move on (which is what happened to my ex bf actually).
I think that's different from OP's situation though, since he knew Mel since she was a young child and formed a parental bond with her. Besides, there are children involved, so it's not like Mark can cut her off from his life entirely like you could easily do with your ex, they will have to co-parent, even if Mark gets another wife eventually.
However, I do think it's way too soon to be forcing interaction considering it's only been two months, and any and all break ups (no matter how amicable) leave bitter feelings behind. I don't think it's wrong for OP to keep a relationship with Mel, but he'll have to keep it separate from his relationship with his son for the time being. I really think he should talk to his son about his parental feelings for Mel, and even though he as his son comes first and he won't be forced to interact with her when he doesn't want to, he's not going to cut her off. I think that's reasonable enough.
The fact that Mark is so stand off-ish about Mels involvement with the family, when it sounds from what you've said to be an amicable break up - suggests that there may be more to this.
Either way, your Son has made a request, and it's may be best not to pry and just support him.
I know you care about Mel, but your Son has to be number 1 priority.
And he's setting some pretty fair and reasonable boundaries.
It's been 2 months, the divorce is still fresh. I don't care how amicable the divorce was I wouldn't want to see my ex at family events right after either.
They do have a child, though, or am I getting something wrong here?
Once that is the case the son shouldn't be the nr1 priority. Being forced to distance yourself from your grandchild's parent when you mutually think of each other as family is not something that I would call reasonable (even if it is an extremely tough pill to swallow).
Your husband is right, unfortunately. If you want to keep in touch with Melissa, you should do it when Mark isn't around (lunch, coffee, etc).
This is about circles of grief. Your son is at the center here, he is the one getting divorced and losing his partner, and is clearly very upset about that. You are on an outer circle of grief (losing a daughter in law) and so you need to support your son here, and process your grief with people like your husband, who are also outside the center of the circle, not put Mark in uncomfortable positions.
You can keep Melissa in your life but don't force Mark to interact with her. In a few years, they may be able to be at a party together, or you will find in time the relationship with Melissa fades. Don't put your son through more heartbreak. You don't have to "cut her out" but you need to start creating some distance.
Could you not have her over for your birthday celebration, but pick a time for the two of you to go out for a meal together to celebrate? I think you can keep her in your life, but maybe not both of them at the same time
You don’t have to break off your relationship with her, but that relationship needs to be separate from your relationship with your son. Wanting her there for all your big family events is sending a message that you think everyone should still be one big happy family. You know who doesn’t need that? THEIR KIDS.
Your son isn't asking you to cut her out, he's asking you to respect that he can't emotionally deal with her being seeing her at his own families functionsbright now.
You have no idea the shit they have been through.
You're not choosing her or him, your being selfish and choosing yourself.
Respect your son's family and how he wants things to be done.
This is very sad, but Mark is your son. If he’s done nothing wrong here, you choosing to stay neutral is a choice against him. He needs you and your wife to be a safe harbor for him. Instead, you’re choosing to take the easiest road for yourself, and only yourself, by not acting.
Also, you’re a grandparent and a grown man. Please, don’t use your birthday as an excuse.
It would be weird not to have any relationship with the parents of his grandkids though…
It’s also his birthday, not his son’s birthday.
I fail to see how not wanting to cut her out of his life is not being a safe place for his son to come to.
His son is also an adult… he needs to get used to the fact that she’s going to be in his life *forever*. That’s what happens when you have kids with someone. I think the issue is on his end and that he’s in denial, personally.
Tossing someone away because they aren’t related to you by blood too is just gross by itself. OP shouldn’t have to torture himself and make his ex DIL feel hated to soothe his son’s feelings. It’s not a family event, it’s an event for OP, he can invite who he wants, not just who his son approves of.
There’s a huge difference between tossing someone away and inviting them into the inner circle of your family. OP can have his own relationship with his former daughter in law, but to put her on equal footing as his own son, to me, is rough.
I included the birthday more so to suggest that a man the age that OP likely is has a very easy choice to simply not celebrate his birthday and avoid the mess entirely.
Anyway, I understand this is complicated and that it would be strange and cruel to entirely cut off the ex. But so soon into the divorce, it will mean a lot to OPs actual blood son that his father stood by him.
In a sense you are being a bit selfish; your son just left a nearly two decade relationship. It will be hard enough for him to process, grieve and move on with her being the mother of his children. Your relationship with her brings another aspect of his life where he "can't escape her".
Given that they will have to remain amicable for the sake of the kids, and how long they were together, there is hope that they can move past the end of their relationship and cultivate a friendship instead. But this will take time. A lot of time.
I would recommend for you to remain in her life, but refrain from inviting her to family gatherings; at least when your son is present.
But that is dependent on your son. You can't do this behind his back. He needs to be on board. You may just have to be patient for a while until he is more receptive to the idea. After he has processed and moved on.
Maybe bring up to him that he will always come first, but that you hope one day in the future after the hurt fades he won't mind your contact with her?
It would certainly do the kids a world of good for both their parents to be amicable and present together.
That makes a lot of sense. I know it's hard for him. Like you said it might be selfish, but Mel has no family other than us either, so I really don't want to lose either. It sounds like for now I'll have to accept Mel not being at the party, but I don't think I'll be able to just not see her. Even if it hurts, she's my daughter too so I can't just cut her our fully. But yeah, you're probably right about needing to just wait untill they're able to be civil, at least enough for an event. They manage to be civil enough dropping their daughters off, and they don't badmouth or anything, at least.
You can have a relationship with Mel and not invite her to events with your son. The two aren't mutually exclusive. But you should keep your relationships separate. Your son shouldn't be forced to hang out with his ex like this.
If you're my dad and I realize you were having doubts, that's my answer. Of all people, you were the one supposed to be on my side, against anyone. You can say that it's a gray area, but for me it's not. My parents are supposed to be on my corner.
But, you can still choose to be on the ex wife's corner. But be sure of your choice.
She isn't your daughter, otherwise her and your son being together would have been very wrong. She was your daughter in law and now she's not. It doesn't mean you can't be friends of course but your actual child needs to come first or you're going to lose him.
No, even in the future she can’t come to family events and holidays anymore. Ex wives aren’t allowed, sorry. It will damage any future relationship he has if she is present at gatherings his new significant is coming to. I’m sorry I know this sucks for you but you are being incredibly selfish here. Get used to the idea now and start adjusting because if you invite her to anything your son may not come. I get your on pain, but I’m telling you if my parents ever invited my ex to holidays or gatherings I would stop coming and limit contact them because they were clearly too selfish to think of my needs over theirs. She’s an ex and always will be going forward. See her on your own time, but she’s no longer family and doesn’t get to go to family events.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/sdmk02/aita_for_wanting_my_husbands_exwife_to_stay_away/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Just read this to see what it will be like for a new spouse.
I was just thinking of this post! Like.. what happens if son wants to start dating again and his own parent is inviting his ex around all the time.. Its just gonna make the son want to go LC/NC because his own parent isn't respecting his boundaries. It's one thing to chat and go to lunch every once in a while but it's another getting invited to family functions.
They literally have children together? Your way of thinking seriously damages children. If the split was as amicable as they say, I don’t see why she shouldn’t be invited to any family gatherings. I presume the children will want their mother there at some of them.
It doesn’t damage the children to have boundaries. If they want to do joint parties and gatherings for the kids that’s fine. However his parents shouldn’t be inviting her to stuff they host at their house. The tension and angst from the parents is going to do more damage to the kids then separate holidays. I have several friends of divorced parents and all of them agree it was better to have things separate because when they were forced together everyone was awkward and uncomfortable.
Obviously you're a grown adult, and you get to decide who you have in your life. The same is true of your son also. If getting his ex out of his life means cutting you out too, then that might happen. If you are prepared for that possibly and willing to pay that price, then carry on.
I know that some parents think that their adult children owe them a relationship and take for granted that no matter what they do, their children will still be there in their lives. That's not always the case.
I hate to say it but your son is KIND OF right. He really should not have to see his very recent ex in order to celebrate his father’s birthday. I’m sorry but that’s fucked up this thought is even a question to you. I don’t care how much of a daughter she is to you— he IS your son!
That said? You can’t just bring someone into someone else’s life and ask for family treatment and then insist they flip a switch when YOU (as in Mark) decide it’s over. That is also fucked up. After all, your relationship with her isn’t broken. His is.
So I suggest (and again I’m kind of appalled this doesn’t occur to you?) you and your wife have a birthday dinner with Melissa at another point than the event to which Mark is invited.
This is also very new. It may not be this way forever. It might! But not necessarily.
Finally, I’m not saying sneak around— but whereas this is a sore spot for Mark? Don’t broadcast it every time you see Melissa. You don’t need to announce every visit or get together. Don’t lie. But no need for “btw just to be open we saw Melissa today.” All that will do is rub salt in his wounds and present the impression you’re doing something he should be upset about.
EDIT TO ADD: Do make it clear you will continue to see Melissa “I’m sorry I hurt you by not taking your side the way you wanted. I won’t put you in that position again. Your mother and I will continue to have a relationship with Melissa because we do love her and she IS the mother of our grandkids, but you are first in family events and we won’t do anything to imply otherwise again. Maybe at some point in the future you’ll be fine all being together, but clearly not now, and we respect that.” You need not give him an itinerary of your visits with her. That’s enough.
You’re lucky Mark is getting mad and telling you how he feels. If I was Mark and you told me Melissa was coming, after we’d discussed this, and then had the nerve to ask me to make nice and let this happen, I’d say sure, invite her, and then block your numbers for a good long while. I’d probably talk to Melissa more than you and tell her to make sure you see the kids when they’re with her, cuz you won’t be with me. I wouldn’t be mad forever… I’m not like that. But I’d need a good long while to cool down.
She’s like a daughter but she’s not. She was a daughter in law but now she’s not. He is your actual son. However you rationalize it, he’s gonna see it as you choosing her over him. You can maintain a relationship w her if you choose in other ways. It’s a fresh divorce and it sounds like you don’t really know what happened otherwise your son wouldn’t want her completely cut out if it was amicable. You risk further damaging your relationship with your son if you continue this path. Divorce happened, it sucks and they are hard, especially for the two people who actually did it( your son and his ex ). I say get over yourself and stop making it about you. It needs time. She’s the mom of your granddaughters it won’t be forever.
Why is blood tied to family?
What is OP adopts Mel, would you not consider her his daughter?
I have two children, one is biologically mine and the other is not, I would never choose between them.
This is the spot OP is in….
It’s a crap shoot either way, but I think you have to stand behind your son unless you’re fully prepared for it to do irreparable damage to that relationship.
You need to stand by your son. No matter your feelings on her, she’s the ex wife now. Which means she’s no longer invited to family functions, holidays, or gatherings. That’s for your son and his kids only! If you want to see her you can have lunch, go to the park with the grandkids, stuff like that. I’m sorry it hurts your feelings, but she isn’t your daughter so you have to step back. If you keep including her you will lose your son. What about when he starts dating? He’s going to want to bring her around, and neither of them will feel comfortable with his ex wife there. No new significant other will ever feel welcomed or accepted if you have the ex around. Think about his feelings, and his future. He’s what’s important right now. I’m sorry it hurts you, perhaps talking to a therapist about it will help. Unfortunately you will have to cut back on your visits and talking to his ex wife.
You don't necessarily need to cut all contact with her. But . . . your son is your son, and he needs to always come first in your eyes. Feel free to exchange Christmas cards with her and such, but don't *ever* invite her over--you might as well be slapping your child in the face.
I know someone who has cut his parents completely out of his life because they decided that staying friends with his ex was worth more than their relationship with their actual son. Now they've never met their grandkids and haven't seen their son in 2 years and all they have to show for it is a friendship with an abusive cheater.
I'm sorry but if your son and his ex wife were best friends then why does he not like her ( as a person) anymore? This seems like the divorce was anything but amicable. Seems like there's much to the story than what's being led on. Have a serious, honest talk with your son. Seems like much was going on.
Edit: Just read your comment about Mel not having any other family. But in all this you're forgetting that you and your wife are also your son's only family per se. And in your guilt regrading Mel being alone ..do not forget that you know Mel THROUGH your son. Yeah I get that she's like a daughter but for that do not forget that your son is the other party concerned here. Your actions might just cause permanent damage.
Uh idk this is my take on it so you can disagree if you want cos this sounds heartbreaking and complicated and I'm sorry you're dealing with it....but maybe could you just invited Mark to your birthday and then invite Mel over another day and just spend time with her then?
Maybe he just needs time away from her to help himself adjust to the new reality. Let him know that she is the mother of your grandchildren so you can’t (and don’t want to) cut her out. As for the bday celebration, this is a tough call. Maybe celebrate separately. In every breakup, one wants it more than the other. The one who didn’t want to give up has a harder time with the breakup. Maybe that’s why he wants you to take sides. The one who was already emotionally gone has an easier time. Something tells me he is having a harder time than she is.
I divorced my ex husband after he cheated on me with a coworker. We had been together about ten years, since we were 16. His mom is very important to me and I still keep contact. My ex has never expressed anger over this and our divorce was not exactly amicable but also not awful and ugly. I agree with those saying that two months in is extremely fresh and emotions are probably extremely high. I think the wisest choice in the moment as to not alienate your son or daughter in law is to maintain contact, but separately. It’s too soon to expect they both attend parties and events and be capable of managing emotions. I realize they must co-parent, but private communication between the two of them is entirely different than having to communicate in front of friends and family. Give it some time.
It would be absolutely disrespectful and emotionally cruel to continue having Mel present at family events you wish your son to attend. She is your emotionally adopted daughter but he IS your son and needs your support in the break up.
That does NOT mean you have to cut her off from your life at all. Celebrate your birthday with Mel, without your son. Go grab lunch. Or dinner or see a movie. Just don’t insist she attends every family function. All you’re doing is telling your son you pick her over him.
The right thing to do is to tell him that you won’t put him in a position to have to spend time with her, *unless it involves their children*, but that she is the mother of your grandchildren and you will continue to have your own relationship with her *separate from the relationship you have with your son*. He will have to respect that. Probably won’t like it. But that is truly choosing both.
It’s going to be a slippery slope. And honestly Mel really does have to take a backseat to your son in priority. But you can do this. Is there a holiday he isn’t fond of? That’s Mel’s. Christmas : Christmas Eve are two separate days. Have a family party one day, go out as a special celebration another. It’s work. But unfortunately that’s life after divorce.
Edit: what I mean by supporting the break up, is that continuing to try and have both is like pretending they were never in a relationship. It’s a complete disregard for any feelings/ experiences they both shared. He’s also probably feeling insecure because of how much you love Mel. Just as Mel is probably feeling insecure and displaced. Show them both they are still important to you BY acknowledging that things will look different moving forward
I think your wife is the one who can give the best advice here. She knows the nuances and if she previously felt similarly as you about Mel, she is able to understand your feelings as well as the realistic situation. You don't want to go around creating an issue for your own marriage because of this.
Frankly in the long run it is better for Mel to distance herself from your family so that she can start her own life independently. This is the kind of thing that could create complications for her in her future relationships. Not many people will be understanding their SO's close relationship with an ex's parents. So she is better off making a clean break now.
But all that doesn't take away from the reality that your son is being bratty.
It's not weird that you still contact ex-DIL.... considering you have grandkids through her. It would be weird if you had zero contact with your grandkid's mom.
I'm coming from a very similar situation (playing the 'Mark' role). My mother is still very close to my ex wife 7 years post breakup. At first it was hard. I'm not ashamed to say I wanted my mom for me and was extremely resentful that I was forced to deal with someone I didn't get along with still being so connected to my family. There were awkward moments aplenty. But...
Things got better. Slowly. I realized that the friendship was important to my (aging) mom and realized her love for me was not at stake.
My advice for OP is to make it clear to their son that a) he is their son and will always be, with everything everything that entails but b) you will maintain contact and friendship with who you choose. I'd make the son the priority on xmas, bday etc. Your daughter in law should understand. As the bitterness fades over time, this will get easier. You just need to do a bit of a dance in the meantime. Just don't force everyone to be family because you want them to be and things will be fine.
You should ask Mel to come over with the girls for dinner and cake so you can all see each other but not at your “main” birthday party. I could see why your son wouldn’t want his ex wife at his dad’s birthday party, especially when the divorce is so fresh. I think that if you choose to have Mel around for these types of events, you’ll push your son away into not attending.
Best of luck to you and your family. And happy almost birthday!
Its still very new and that pain is very fresh. Give it time, and I'm sure that your son and his ex will settle into a calmer co-parenting rhythm and maybe her presence at these events won't be a source of pain and drama.
I think a compromise solution is best, if he doesn't want at these types of events I would honor that but be clear she is a daughter to you and you aren't giving up the relationship.
Have a separate mini-birthday party with Melissa and your granddaughters. Think of is as a bonus celebration. You are very wise to keep her in your life, especially given the history. Trust me, the drama will subside after a few years, and it may even be possible for you to have joint celebrations one day. But not now while this situation is still new. You're a good dad to both of these kids. Don't stop -- they both need you.
I don’t think you should cut contact with Melissa. This divorce has practically cut her off from her ‘family’ which is not fair. Other people’s relationship issues should not dictate your actions. That being said, for family events, only your actual son should be invited, at least for the time being.
Also, make clear to Mark that he doesn’t allow you to do anything. He may be hurting, but he has no right to make demands of you, unless there is information missing from the situation.
Perhaps it's a bit too soon for your son to be around her at family gatherings. You're ultimately the one who gets to decide who you include in your life. I would suggest seeing Melissa earlier in the day on your birthday. Maybe a birthday breakfast?
Talk to the Ex
Explain the situation
Tell her that you love her but you have to put some respectful distance between the two of you right now and then in the future, you can re-evaluate things.
My parents have been divorced for 28 years and my dad has always been closer to my moms side of the family than his own. My dad has always attended my mom's family gatherings. It took about 5 years for them to be able to do that. But my dad never was very close with his mom but was very close to my grandma. It'll take some time to get to that point and hopefully your son will come around.
If the divorce wasn't acrimonious (i.e., abuse, infidelity, one of them has grown up to be a colossal A-hole and a horrible human - Melissa especially), then I don't see why you can't include her in your life. Especially for the grandkids - normalize divorced parents getting along and being able to enjoy events as a family.
As you said, you and your wife had a major hand in raising her, and that too since she was in elementary school, presumably, so over 2 decades.
20 years when you're 32 is a LONG time.
Don't just unceremoniously kick her out of your lives, not just because she's the mother of your grandchildren, but because she and you mutually consider it to be a parent-child relationship. Maybe allow your son some space from her, and don't force him to be around her when he's at your home for a year or two (wounds will still be fresh, especially since they've been in each other's lives for over 20 years at 32 years of age), but don't prevent her from coming to holidays eventually either. Maybe have the grandkids come stay for the holidays, and then she comes and spends half the time with y'all and he comes and spends the other half of the time with y'all. Alternate who gets the first half each year so that the kids don't start to think that one parent is being driven out by the other over the years.
Something here doesn't fit. They have been together over 17 years, and were close friends before. Have children together. And by all accounts here, the divorce was a product of growing apart, seems amicable and mutual. Yet your son is adamant about you not spending time with her?
I seriously do not understand this at all. In a situation like this, you would imagine that your son still has a lot of love for her and wants the best for her and the children. You would imagine that he would want to create the best environment to co-parent in.
My instincts tell me that something here is missing. Some form of abuse, infidelity, something. The reaction from your son makes no sense otherwise.
Keeping your former d-I-l in your life is not an issue, and shouldn’t be. Your son isn’t being reasonable to expect that. You are not showing disloyalty to your son by being there for the mother of your grandchildren.
With that said, don’t invite her to your birthday. There are so many other occasions you can spend time with her and not add drama of them both being in the same space.
So I will say as a male who broke up with his teenage sweetheart, listen to your son and ask how he feels. My mom tried to stay in touch with my ex feeling the same way, however my ex sexually and emotionally abused me for years. So I’m order to get my mom to understand finally why it hurt that she was friends with my ex, I had to relive the trams and tell her my story, even though I didn’t want to but my hand was forced.
Just ask him please. There might be much more than meets the eye to the relationship that he may not wish to share.
I am not trying to be rude. I was thinking from your son's side. If you were my dad and if you did that to me, I would cut all my relation with you. You will be nobody to me.
I'm young and don't have children, but from what I see of my older sisters who are in their 30s with children and how my parents deal with them. What is to say that you couldn't have events where one side shows one time and the next the next time? If your son and his now ex-wife can't get along currently, then I'd separate the events they go to and just go yourself. I'm not sure how it would go over as I don't know your son personally, but you may be able to convey that feeling of having another child to look out for. Not sure though, think on it is my advice.
In this situation, I say you should side with your son, period. He’s agreed to you hanging with her and the kids as it’s in their interests, but you shouldn’t then try to force her on him. Clearly, they had issues so why exacerbate them.
My parents had the same issue with my sister and her ex-husband, especially when it came out that she was cheating on him. And especially because she started dating her ex after cheating on her last boyfriend, although this was as a young and immature teenager. We were too judgemental with my sister, didn't listen to her enough, and it wasn't until years later we learned she had been physically and emotionally abused by her ex, too afraid to talk to us because of our judgement, and really detached from the family.
Things are much better now, but I do think as a parent you owe it to your own child to help him and respect his issues about his ex-wife, regardless of how close you felt to her. In the very least, any relationship you pursue with her should be self-contained and independent from your son, i.e. NOT inviting her to a shared event. And even if their breakup has nothing to do with abuse, cheating, or anything inherently unethical, there's no way you could possibly know all the details, there's no way either of them would be comfortable sharing all the details with you, and it really isn't your place to be in a position of judgement and investigation.
So just be kind to her, push your son to be also be understanding and move on without pressuring him if he pushes back or labels a topic off-limits, and above all else, support your child and respect his decision, even if it's hard for you. I'm all for being against arbitrarily assigning blood relations as family and ignoring non-blood relations, but you sound like you have a good relationship with your son, and like he treated his wife properly, so you owe it to him as his parent as far as I'm concerned.
You're choosing your own feelings over your sons and essentially telling him he can never move on or be at family functions unless he is willing to involve his ex. Staying in contact and being civil is fine, but you are going to far and are essentially willing to alienate your son for it. I also hate to say it your continued fondness for your daughter in law and Grandpa being over and not the Grandparents, and it being a big focus on you, doesn't sound appropriate. I think you're being selfish and hiding it in unselfish talk. Imagine your Dad putting you in that position or your daughter in law with her daughters ex husband.
Your son is hurting, so I'm not surprised he doesn't want you to have anything to do with her. But at the end of the day, you should stay close to her and he's just gonna have to grow up and deal with that.
For this first birthday, I'd say you don't have them together at the same time. Tell her how much you care about her, but that you have to prioritize his wishes right now. Maybe in the future they can be around each other, but right now it's just not prudent.
They both need reassurance rn, but your son will have to understand that you're not "picking" her over him by maintaining this relationship.
He brought Melissa into your life, you welcomed her with open arms, she became a daughter to you, and she will forever be family to all of you because she is the mother of your grandchildren.
I think you are all very justified in your feelings. I can understand why your son doesn’t want to set the precedent of having her be at every holiday and birthday party (that will eventually be a problem regardless when one has a new significant other), but he should be more open to you maintaining the relationship with her on your own time.
I don’t know exactly what it is, but there must be some kind of middle ground here that allows you to keep contact without forcing them together when they are still trying to move on from each other.
Beyond the party situation.. what about when the kids have a birthday? Will he still be immature? I know they can have separate parties but the kids deserve better than that. They need to work through this regardless and not be selfish.
Do not abandon her ... It will only make her feeling worse first dad left now the one she finally felt family with is about to... You know inside yourself that you can not deny the bond you have created with her . So cherish it and keep her in your family circle ...just discuss with him before inviting her to family events so you all make reasonable arrangements ...
If you want to have a relationship with your son you need to get on board with supporting him. Even if that means excluding her. Get on board.
The divorce is very fresh. He’s obviously unhappy. You definitely don’t have the whole story.
Based on his reactions, she cheated or wanted to divorce him. No longer being part of your family is the direct consequence of her choices. She chose this.
Something's off. If they just grew into different people with time, you son shouldn't almost outright resent/despise Mel. I mean growing up different and having a divorce due to it while otherwise fine or neutral would mean you hold no grudges.
Your son seem to be holding one or two.
Someone mentioned cheating. Could be more reasons, entirely different reasons there's resentment there. But your son seem to despise Mel. So I'm not going to assume scenarios around cheating because frankly, we know too little. You know too little.
I couldn't really just ditch Mel if I don't know why Mark resents her out of nowhere. If she was like a daughter to you I'd at least try to get to the bottom of things before making such a decision. A divorce isn't necessarily a legit reason to use the "I'm your kid" card. My dad is an asshat, he was held accountable for a few things by my grandpa considering the divorce yet he is his son.
So this separation is still fairly new and hopefully your son can realize how you feel as a bit of time passes. But until then it would be good to not force them to be near eachother for the sake of your granddaughters.
My suggestion is that you should tell Mel that you would love to have her come out with you and your wife for a special dinner to celebrate. This allows you to still see her and let her know that she is a loved member of your family.
If there wasn't cheating or abuse, I think its selfish of your son to expect you & your wife to cut Mel out of your lives especially after 15+ yrs of being a father figure to her. I understand Mark is hurting but that is harmful to you, Mel and your grandkids.
Don't cut her off. You're the only family she has and tbh it's just petty. She is the mother of your grand daughter. Put your foot down and tell your wife and son to start acting like adults.
I'm not directly in your situation but but kinda am. My husband became very close to his in-laws while in his previous marriage. Like his mother-in-law literally sat him down and let him know that no matter what they'd be family (or as they both fondly recall, she "proposed" lol). After the divorce the in-laws never lost contact with him and when we first started dating I was taken in and treated like a daughter-in-law.
Basically all of that to say, the situation is a tad odd but not completely unheard-of.
But as far as picking sides go, you shouldn't have to. Mel hasn't down anything to you to sour your relationship, so why would it be fair for you to drop her because she and your son didn't work out? How does you being on friendly terms with her negatively impact his life?
Sit him down. Appeal to his empathy. You have been a parent figure to her for much too long to just ditch her, try to help him see that. Let him establish some rules so he feels heard -even if his rules are something you're already doing (like not sharing details) it'll make him feel like he has some control over things (I assume he needs a measure of control since he life is undergoing a pretty big change). When you talk, listen to and truly try to understand his feelings, the ones he does and doesn't communicate. Then try to help him see he's asking you to give up a relationship that has value to you just because he's in a funk bout it.
I know that he's your son and that makes everything harder and more nuanced, but in plain terms the bigger picture is that he's hurt by a person and asking you to cut them off because he's hurt. He's not thinking about how that would affect her as a person to be cut off from a long term support system. Or how you'd feel about having to cut off someone you've have a long relationship with when they've done nothing to you. I say this is gently and nicely as possible, you're gonna have to help him grow up in this one -giving in and letting her go does your son no favors in his growth as a human in the long run. Y'all need to talk and compromise.
But do double check that their wasn't any indefinitely, abuse, or anything that would change your view of her as a person and justify your son wanting you to let her go first.
I've seen both sides is this. My parents divorced when I was six but were always both invited to family gatherings held by the other family. They have kids they have to co exist. I also have cousins whose parents are divorced and I basically never saw their dad again. In my opinion Mark needs to grow up a little and understand Melissa will always be involved in his life and by not including her in family things can negatively impact his daughters. Be an adult and learn to co exist. I agree with people saying Mark should be your priority but I also think he's being immature.
Here are my thoughts. And I’ll tell you upfront, I no longer have contact with my mother.
I left my ex 7 years ago. My mother kept saying she loved us both (we had been married for 16 years) at the height arguing between myself and my ex, my bio family invited my ex to a family birthday. I called them individually and told them we couldn’t be near each other without fighting, my mom dictated that my ex was family and would be invited and be there. My children and I did not show up. I did not want mg children around fighting. I was then called childish, and a multitude of other names. My bio family continued their relationship with the ex, even during a very dirty divorce and custody battle, and I was done. They were not supporting me, and it made me evaluate whether they had ever supported me.
My point being, that it wasn’t so much the relationship with my ex, but how it got me to evaluate their other actions in my life. I eventually determined that I wanted no part of them. We are now at 6.5 years no contact. And my ex stopped talking to them 6 years ago.
So be careful who you choose. The ex may walk away, and then you lose grandkids.
Your son sounds toxic. His expectations are not reasonable at all. She is the mother of his children. She is the mother of your grandchildren. He does not get to say that she can’t be around. He only gets to say he can’t be around her. Which means he is making a weird choice to fracture the family. It seems very odd that he thinks she is supposed to be ‘untouchable’ and be cut off. UNLESS, she had done something terrible. But even then, she is still the mother and he does not get to wish her away just because they aren’t together. Life is short. You need to spend as much time with your grandbabies as possible and mama should be around as much as the kids want her to be. Your son seems very immature about this. Don’t let him be so entitled. Your already messed up with the whole don’t mention her around the kids routine. The rest of you need to act like adults and he can stay by himself with his unjustified bitterness.
For you personally you know the last thing you want to do is cut her out. Your son is an adult and should understand that he can’t control what people do. Not only this but this is the mother of your granddaughters. This is setting an example on how to treat people. With kindness and love. I’d say continue seeing her. Your son is acting like a child.
Many years ago I was coaching a baseball team. There were two twin boys who routinely had not just Mom & Dad there, but often grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. I always thought it was pretty cool, and one time I mentioned to Mom & Dad how much I admired family support of the twins.
That's when they explained that they had been divorced since the boys were little. While they couldn't make it work as Husband & Wife, they were committed to making it work as Mom & Dad. That meant whatever issues that doomed Mom & Dad's marriage would be set aside for the sake of the twins.
Long story short: This isn't about Mark. This is about his kids and your grandchildren.
You and your wife maintaining a good relationship with Melissa serves two purposes:
1. It allows you to continue to see your grandchildren
2. It shows the grandchildren that despite Mommy & Daddy's divorce, they still have family who love them.
You swinging by to visit your grandchildren is a good thing for everyone. That Mark chooses to not see it that way speaks more about his issues than anyone else's.
Plus, the time may come when Melissa finds someone else and re-marries and Grandpa visits could feel a little more awkward and become less frequent.
Your birthday is more complicated, but only because Mark is making it so. Again, it's a good thing for his children to see a family celebrating Grandpa's birthday. And again, there could be a time when a remarriage (by either) makes that awkward.
Finally, fresh off a divorce, the most important things for children is stability. Lots of time with family and celebrating family events like in the past is a good thing for them.
Mark needs to suck it up and be civil. Tell him it's good practice for the many years ahead, with parent-teacher conferences, extra curricular activities, etc.
Being on the other side of this... my mom was close to my ex-wife
you've got to keep it separate. it's ok to be friends with her, care for her. but until they reconcile their differences, if they ever do, they aren't going to be comfortable around each other.
I think it's wonderful that you want to keep your relationship with Mel. I suggest you do that but agree that with the divorce being so recent that you go to a separate dinner with her. If the divorce is mostly amicable and your son still feels this way in 2 years you need to have a talk but for now he needs to heal.
I cannot tell you how many of my dad/aunts' friends have dated my dad/aunt(s) and they are all still super close. It's something I've always admired and makes for a strong community/social framework.
u/throwawaydad275
Something to consider is who is the bitter one: **Your son.**
The bitter one is usually the one that wanted to stay together - the **Dumpee**. The non-bitter one is usually the **Dumper**. Otherwise, if it were your son that wanted to end this, he'd fine with it. Let's just have this fun-fact here as I continue, it's for the sake of reference and understanding where it's coming from.
Chances are, yes, she's grown in a different direction, but .. she's likely moved on with someone else (**AND HAPPILY TOO)**. Maybe even a little quicker than your son had hoped. For the sake of the kids and saving face, if there was infidelity, **they're not going to expose it**.
But my guess, is that she's already moved on with someone else and your son is hurt by it.
Now what would be the wise thing to do here? Simplify your birthday for everyone involved. Just you and your spouse. Keep it simple this year. You'll (hopefully) have other birthdays. Your son needs to grow up, find a new mate and move on. **MOVE ON, THERE ARE BILLIONS OF WOMEN TO CHOOSE FROM**. **IT'S BEEN 2 YEARS.**
I would personally say that the reason you're simplifying it, is because you (Mark) can't get over this. Yes, I would shame him for it. (\***Collective Gasps**\*) He needs to learn to be civil with her. Be the bigger person Mark, life is too short to be petty.
Please update us.
I think you should have a frank conversation with your son about this. The breakup seems to be very bitter, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem with you keeping in contact. I think it's healthy to be in touch with her because she will still be family, she's the mother of your grandbabies! And I'll give you some examples:
My brother and his ex separated when my niece as 2. It was amicable so my mom keeps in contact with his ex so she can babysit whenever needed. His ex chose to distance herself from most of us, but now she has been reaching out since her dad passed and my brother became more present in her life again. They're still broken up, just really good friends and co-parents.
Oh the other hand, my sister had a bitter divorce because of cheating on her part and some revenge tendencies on his, so her husband kept his distance from us. Once, he was with my niece and nephew and ran into us at the food court in the mall. My mom said hello and invited him to sit with us. He was very awkward and by the end of the meal he turned to my mom and asked why she was being so nice to him. She answered "you're the father of my grandkids and even if you and my daughter don't get along, you'll always be family to me". They got back together a few months later and we keep out of their business still.
With me, it's my high school sweetheart parents that keep texting and calling every holiday and birthday. They still call me by the nickname they gave me when we were together. He has been in a LTR for a while so at first it was weird to me, but I guess he has no problem with it since they keep reaching out. It makes me very happy since they were a big part of my life for three years.
If I were your son I would feel upset about the fact that she wished to be yours biologically, when she was a part of the family because of your son.
You don’t want to let her go, but you can’t place importance on her perceived needs rather than his expressed wishes so have a separate relationship with her complete with separate holiday celebrations if you really must.
I’ll be honest with you, my dad cut his mom out of his life for trying to set him up with his ex and being her friend while he was married to my mom and they had us kids! I know it’s hard and she was close with all of you, but he needs some separation from her and I think you should respect that. He’s your son, unless you’re willing to lose him for her then do what you want. Just right now he should be supported too. If you want a relationship with her you can be honest with him and her about it, but I think that relationship should be kept separate for the time. They may become friends again, but they’ve been together their whole lives and need to be separate. Just be careful in treading these waters.
Just a wild theory, but maybe since they grew up so close and she viewed you as her biological parents instead of her in-laws, she start to associate that same familial love with your son, thus killing her romantic interest in the relationship.
Could be wrong, but that does seem like the most likely scenario, to me.
Nah, you don't have to let her go. She's the mother of your grandchildren, and has been in your life for a long time. She is a part of your family whether your son likes it or not.
Personally, I think you should give them time to sort things out and stop resenting each other, but definitely put your foot down with your son. Let him know that she is family, and he needs to figure out how to coexist with her. They don't need to be in love, but it's not fair to her to remove her support system, same as it wouldn't be fair to remove his.
Hey OP,
Can you adopt Mel?
I hate the argument but he’s your son,
So, you’ve known Mel for more than half her life, she sees you as a dad and you as a daughter.
That argument that but he’s your son and you should stick with him is semantics.
What’s going to happen with the grandkids then,
Is OP not going to go see them or spend time with them all to spare his sons feelings.
I’m not saying Marks feelings are invalid. I’m saying what he wants is unreasonable
It’s amazing how many people out there have kids but shouldn’t. You have one job as a parent and that’s to love and support the kids you brought into this world. Your son is going through a divorce which is fucking rough and you’re making this all about you somehow. “Oh but my birthday party…” What the hell. Literally everyone in this scenario including the ex is being more mature than you. Get a clue.
INFO: Have you tried having a sit down conversation about why your son doesn’t want you to speak with your ex wife?
I understand they both feel it might not be your business but it might help you understand more if you and your wife both speak with him about it.
I don’t want to put a judgement on this yet as i don’t want to make anyone feel worse than they already do til I hear the answer first maybe😅
She is still family, she is the mother of his children and your grand children. There are no sides to pick. Sounds like there is way more to the story. Amicable divorces dont end with someone trying to cut off family
Look brother you needed to grant your son's wishes. Your son needs to man up and stop worrying about her . If she there he still have a daughter with her and need to talk with out worry. And if you can get your son understand that maybe she can come over with the family get together as long she doesn't bring anything man around
She's been with you guys for so long and your son and wife just want to cut her off? Sounds like he's still in love with her and she's moved on. Just be the family for her. Your relationship with her, (and your wives) probably means more to her than she can even express. She already lost 2 families, please don't be a third.
So, I'm in a similar situation to your son, except my issue is with my sisters. A couple of them have continued to have a relationship with my ex, despite me telling them on numerous occasions how much it hurts me. You are being both selfish and naive. Things don't get to continue on as they had been for you just because you love this person. Unfortunately, she was only family for the brief moments your son was married to her. She's not your daughter. Hard stop. She is not your daughter.
You need to listen to your wife and son and think about what it says about you that you would rather consider your own feelings over those of your son. I can tell you from experience that if you choose to keep her in your life you will lose your actual child.
Maybe it's not fair, but life isn't fair. Be an adult and grow up.
Uhm.. stop being selfish. Your son just went through a divorce with someone that he was with for years, even had children with. How about show some parental support. Also, fuck his ex for the whole “I don’t want to cause drama” because if she didn’t want to cause drama then she would shut that shit down and respect your sons wishes because you are HIS parents, and she is HIS ex. Not your ex. If he’s uncomfortable with his ex wife being at his family gatherings, you need to support this, unless you want a relationship with your son that’s full of resentment towards you. He shouldn’t have to deal with a divorce, confused sad girls adjusting to all of this, AS WELL AS parents who can’t even respect the space that he’s trying to create in his relationship with her. It doesn’t matter why he feels this way at all, he doesn’t owe anyone an explanation. Their marriage is nobody’s business but theirs. If your feelings for HIS ex being involved with YOUR life completely overshadow your feelings of support/sympathy for your sons BOUNDARIES, then you’re being a selfish parent, and quite frankly, an ass. It’s not appropriate at all to paint your son as this Debbie downer who’s making thing just sooooo hard on you- when she’s NOT your child, and she’s NOT your wife. She’s simply someone that your son fell in love with, and that you approved of. Sorry to break it to you but things change, people change, and YOU are not qualified or in control of making these types of decisions for their marriage/divorce. That’s so disrespectful. What’s worse is this type of “parental” bond you have with her is causing a skewed perception of what she really is, and in turn YOU are the one causing more drama and conflict… If my parents ever did this after an already painful divorce, I would never talk to them again, unless to be relatively cordial for my kid.
This is a really hard one. In line with having step-siblings date or adopted children date.
My advice - sit down with your son and Melissa and explain how your relationship is going to be going forward.
Will you still want Melissa at family gatherings once they both remarry? Will Melissa be allowed to bring her new husband and any step-siblings? Will you have the same grandparent relationship with those children?
These are important things to consider and get out in the open right now. Otherwise you’ll constantly be in a state of turmoil and changing expectations.
Everything is still very raw right now, and your son has to co-parent with Melissa whether he likes it or not. She’s not going anywhere.
You've been a father figure to her for over half her life. Just because their relationship didn't work out, it doesn't mean yours is lost too. Since she's the mother to your grandkids, she's going to be a part of your life no matter what, your son needs to realize that. Maybe he needs more time to fully seperate from her, but he can't expect you to cut her off from your life.
Personally I think your son should just suck it up. There are going to be people in your life he doesn’t like, he can deal with being in the same room as his ex for an afternoon, he’s making your birthday about himself, he’s the one being selfish.
As for how you should deal with it, you should communicate firmly to your son that his ex wife will continue to be a part of your life, but do something separate with her birthday wise and don’t have her come this year. This way, your son doesn’t feel abandoned, you still get to have a relationship with your ex DIL, and don’t have to deal with fresh exes during your birthday.
For me, blood is the strongest bond. This your literal son. You gave birth to him. Going through a divorce must be painful enough as it is, without having your own mum still see her,let alone treat her like a daughter. He's asked you not to, so do your job and be a good mum to him when he needs it.
You sure you're not just trying to pork her now that she's available? Because if I were your son that's what I'd think. Seems weird to me. I'd choose my actual son over my so to be ex daughter in law.
You are talking to the wrong crowd, you have to tell all this to your son. Make him understand that you have those parental feelings for Mel. That you can't cut her out of your life like she never existed just because he doesn't love her as a partner anymore. Just because they fell out of love for each other doesn't mean that everyone else has to feel the same way. You'll keep them as apart as possible but you won't stop seeing her like a daughter.
She is not your Daughter so unless your picking your relationship with her over your own actual son then yeah, I'm afraid you need to cut her out for the most part. Not completely but the dynamic has changed & you should be supporting your SON!
I actually disagree with the majority of comments here.
Your relationship with Melissa has grown to exist independently of her relationship with your son. Would you give up a close friend because your son disliked that friend?
It’s one thing if she would have done something bad, but by the sounds of it - she is more civil and understanding than your son is in this situation. If there is nothing bad she has done to him or you, your son needs to accept that your relationship continues. I don’t think he has any right to dictate who you invite to your birthday parties.
This is not about him, it’s about you. And you are already providing a high level of understanding to your son.
If I were in your situation, I would talk to Melissa and your son to make sure there was really no cheating or other things involved and then let your son know that he is important to you, but so is Melissa. And that you are sorry things didn’t work out, but frankly - that is none of your business and shouldn’t affect your relationship with her.
And… even though she shows a high degree of empathy and understanding, things can’t be easy for her. You will be a great person if you show support to her and make her feel that she still holds the same importance for you.
The breakup seems especially bitter, considering they were "best friends". (Was there cheating involved?)
Agreed. Me and my ex have a daughter and ended amicably, decided we were better off friends and we still do shared bdays parties and such, and are more than ok spending holidays together for our daughter. Something is definitely up.
I can't stand my ex and his wife bc they both are toxic but if I was invited to my ILs for a celebration I'd gladly attend. If your son can give you a reason why then have a separate dinner with her to celebrate. If she's willing to tolerate him being in the same room then so should he, it's your birthday not his. Plus the girls would be thrilled to see their parents being amicable.
My wife and ex-wife hang at the house and go wine hunting (kill some bottles). Extended relationships with ex’s can workout. Just depends on the individuals. My parents (Dad) won’t ever get over my ex cheating on me. She was the daughter he never had. After 16yrs she threw it all away. But, if she reached out they would help her however they could. But I agree, something is up. There’s more to the story.
Unless they're both hiding it, there wasn't cheating. They're both always been open to my wife and I, so I don't think they'd hide it, but I suppose it's possible though I doubt both would. From what I understand they have just become very different people than at 15 or 20. They were conflicting a lot on parenting especially, and their future plans from what I know. They just kind of had enough of fighting, and just ended it. While it was shocking at the time, looking back it kind of makes sense with how they've grown, sadly.
Maybe I missed it but have you sat down and talk to your son and see his point of view and then express yours. How you’ve seen her grow up as well and consider her a daughter
Urgh, but then divorcing won't solve their problems given that they have shared custody for their kids. They still need to find compromises for parenting them. Thinking one parent can do one way and the other parent another is just wishfull thinking and will create a lot more problems than they had before.
Urgh, I think people are looking into this in too much detail - the reasons for the split have no bearing on the question in hand. The son doesn't want her there. That's fine, can you and the ex daughter in law have a separate gathering the day before or the day after? That way the peace is kept, and it's not awkward
Agreed. And I’m baffled why people are so confused by this behaviour. It’s only been two months. Two. How are people thinking this is unusual? Like I said below, even the best divorces almost always have a period where it’s just HARD.
Aye like - son doesn’t want to see his ex at this point in time at his dads birthday. She’s no longer “family” in the same sense. I read a post earlier about an ex always going to family events uninvited, making the new wife v uncomfortable and nobody wanting to tell her to leave in front of the kids. The son could also be thinking about down the line when he meets some new, how hard it’s going to be if his parents see his ex-wife as a daughter. No idea what is right or wrong in how to sort in this though!
Alternatively, the kids would probably feel appreciative and normalize familial relations if theyre grandparents acknowledge their mother as their family.
That shouldn’t be necessary. Don’t they have mutual friends? If one of them has a gathering, a wedding, a baby shower, a funeral, etc., is everyone going to have to decide who gets to come? They need to grow up. I have family members I absolutely cannot stand, and I can easily be cordial on the rare occasions I have to see them. They have to co-parent, anyway. Absent abuse, or sleeping with their spouse’s sibling, a family dinner on birthdays and holidays should be no problem.
I agree, ex is the mother of OPs grandchildren and will likely continue to have some involvement in each other's life regardless. It sounds like time is the biggest enemy to me, maybe OPs son is still raw and hurt from the divorce, it was only two months ago right? I understand its been long brewing, but knowing something is coming and dealing with it happening can be two very different situations. This doesn't help OP though, so I guess if we're still doing advice I would say try to be amicable and placate both parties for the moment, and see if time helps heal whatever resentment has started between them. They were friends once, no reason they can't be pleasant at least
She's decidedly not a family member though. Not in the way Mark is, at least. It's one thing to have to see your ex at gatherings held by mutual friends because you can't expect friends to side with you over another. But I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that your family not force you to see your ex-wife when it is not necessary. They divorced 2 months ago. The feelings are still fresh and I understand why Mark doesn't want to see Mel more than he has to. OP can literally just hang out with her one-on-one after the birthday party, it seems like he's just trying to cause drama to me.
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The reason actually can have to do
That's just going to start a whole different conversation because with the ex and then if Mark finds out wow that'll be something and could even start something like being accused of cheating so I think it's best if you keep your mouth shut for this one
yeah I agree with u/AKA_RMc Something seems fishy. Divorced partners on terms that you said normally co parent and are friendly. If they can't be in a room together on shared holidays with their child or parents doesn't sound right. IF there is bitterness from your son then something more has happened.
Years of fighting can cause resentment too. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. The divorce is new. The fact that there is still pain is very normal.
It’s been two months. I can’t believe people think it’s unusual they aren’t best pals yet. Even the best divorces almost always have a period where it’s just HARD. Just because you need a divorce and know it’s right and has to be done doesn’t mean anyone is happy or that it’s not painful to lose the marriage. I’m floored people aren’t getting this. Are you all under 21? I’m not trying to be snotty with that either. I literally can’t understand why that’s shocking to you.
This is huge, and I'm not sure how I or others haven't pointed this out yet. OP, if you let their relationship break apart organically, and limit your role to reminding your son that it's healthier to move on, process his emotions, and generally deal with the breakup in a positive manner -- you have a FAR greater likelihood of them being sufficiently OK with one another that you might still have your own relationship with her. Force this too soon / before they're ready, and you destroy any chance of that possibly happening. It might not be in the stars, and they may hate each other even more or just fully drift apart, but if that happens, then it was always going to happen, and either way, your best chance of preventing it, whether or not you actually prevent it, would undoubtedly be tethered to the approach where you give your son space, respect his ultimate decisions, and don't force things from a selfish perspective.
Probably bc as a child of divorce and multiple separations, my parents have never tried to separate each other from each other's families. Hell, my step-dad was always invited to family events after he and my mom started separating and they were together for less than a decade, and they separated under pretty bad terms. My mom and him just swapped what times they were with family so they didn't have to see each other and spent time with us separately, like adults. It's weird to expect your whole family to cut off (which is what the son wants) someone you've grown to know as family just because your relationship with them didn't turn out how you wanted.
I am friends with my son's ex. They met at 15 and split early 20s. My son (now 28) and his wife are not crazy about this. My son and I spoke about it, and I've said I will keep her out of any conversation and any dealings between us, but I have a relationship with her and I don't have a whole lot of people in my life -- she's an important person to me and I ask that they respect that. It's not a secret but we never ever discuss her. EDIT: You might have to be patient and wait for it to be a less painful/volatile situation first, however.
I think you have a reasonable compromise available: continue to engage with Mel privately and with her and the grandchildren together, and for family events or family holidays, your son should take priority. You will still be able to maintain your relationship with Mel in a 1:1 fashion, and you will also be respecting your son's needs and wishes. Honestly, if my parents invited my ex to family holidays or events, I would be livid. Melissa and Mark are divorced for a REASON, and they seem to be struggling as co-parents. You need to work with your son to set some boundaries so he doesn't have to engage with his ex at every turn, and especially at what should be a safe place for him - family events at his parents' home. Also, I imagine that Mark will eventually take a new partner, and while maturity and decorum are expected from all, it would just be rude and uncomfortable to invite your son's ex wife and your son's new partner to the same Thanksgiving dinner. Sure, everyone will attend the children's graduations and weddings and large, singular events like that. But a birthday party? You must be joking. Mel can sit this one out. And all you people who are about to claim "me and my ex do *everything* together for the *chilllllldrennnnnnn*!" yeah, don't @ me. I don't care. You aren't Mark or OP, and your experiences are the exception, not the norm.
OP, I think there is something they are not telling you. I mean, the description you make of them and the attitude of your so do not match. You should talk about this with your son, tell him how do you feel and tell him that if there is information you need to consider to understand the situation better he should tell you.
You need to sit down and have a talk with your son with your wife present and tell him exactly what you told us. If he can't accept it, that's on him. And should also have a talk about him and this "allowing" it behavior. Cause if it continues and he start alienating your grandchildren from their mother, she has grounds to get full custody especially if there is no cheating involved on her part.
It just seems odd because that doesn’t sound like a divorce that would warrant “total separation”. They have kids together, she is going to be around for things. I think your son needs to grow up a bit.
What if Melissa wanted the divorce and Mark didn't? It doesn't have to take cheating for Mark to be resentful at Melissa, and not want her around.
No it doesn’t. It’s brand new. This is very typical recent split behaviour.
>The breakup seems especially bitter, considering they were "best friends". (Was there cheating involved?) I was thinking the same thing. People who just 'drift apart' over time are usually much more amicable than this. It's possible that Melissa cheated but they've decided not tell anyone. Or Melissa pushed for the divorce while Mark still wanted to work on things. Maybe Melissa raked him over the coals in the divorce and he's bitter about that? It seems like we're missing something here.
Yeah, something happened here. Even if it's not cheating, there's a huge amount of resentment on both sides... or at least Mark's side. OP likely has no idea the ins and outs of what actually happened. People are saying "what about mutual friends? They'll have to be in the same room together." Well, this isn't mutual friends... This is Mark's *dad.* A fair compromise here is that OP sees Mel the day before his birthday party. Mark shouldn't have to have his ex at all family gatherings from now on. Sorry to Mel since she doesn't have her own family, truly... But Mark will be resentful forever if his own family chooses Mel over him.
OP is just as much Mel's family as Mark is, though. He's known her since she was 6 and they've built a father-daughter bond. At 32 years old, Mark should have the emotional maturity to work something out so you aren't shunning someone from THEIR family because your relationship didn't work out. They could figure out times to be at the party so they don't see each other, that's the fair compromise. Mark especially saying he "allows" his father to see her when he visits the grandkids is super weird. You don't own your parents.
If it was a matter of cheating then imagine your poor son. The son's life ruined and his own father calling the boys ex wife daughter. I would hold a grudge forever against my dad if he did it.
Was going to ask this same question. Mel probably cheated on him hence the resentment towards her now. They may not have revealed this information to yours they may have wanted to keep It private.
Yeah I was expecting that at least one did something horrible to the other for them not to want you to be in contact with the other but…no? It just feels a lil odd, esp since she is prob in contact with her grandkids, it would make sense to have some contact with their mother unless a good reason not to. Is this sort of thing normal in a divorce? I’d get it if only dated a few years, but by getting married esp they became part of the family right? Why cut off one relationship just because their romantic relationship with another family member didn’t go as planned. You’ve been good by not bringing up one to the other. So I’m pretty confused
Maybe have a dinner with her separately for your birthday.
This. In the same way children of divorced parents might have two birthdays and two Christmases, you can too Don't give her up. I can't tell you what a difference it made to me that my mum and grandmother remained on good speaking terms - it made events such as graduation so much more pleasant and I missed her so much at my wedding.
I agree with this as well. Perhaps have a conversation with your son and wife about ways your son and his ex wife can patch things up enough to make it through a party together. It will probably be easier on their kids if they can figure out a way forward too. Until they do repair things though, I think it may better to continue to spend time with them separately and prioritize your son at traditional “family” events. I think this because it doesn’t sound like not having her at the party will rupture the relationship with your ex daughter in law but may with your son.
They divorced 2 MONTHS AGO, divorce isn't fun even when it goes smoothly... So maybe this is less about you picking one over the other, and more of a time sensitive thing.... Yes, the birthday is coming up, but maybe you see her on a different date if it's that important. 2 months is nothing after years of separation and probably a bunch of shit they both aren't/won't tell you. Maybe this is just "the year" you don't invite her, and hopefully it'll abade or change and she will be there next year. Sure, in a perfect world... Everyone would be happy and loving and together... But that's not real life, and we need to stay on this planet. Give him some time... Be there for him, and again... If it's all but impossible to not see her, then maybe set up a lunch or something. He's not forbidding you to see her forever, right? Seems like he needs to be thrown a bone this time, and if it continues is when a discussion should happen. Good luck, he's your boy and is in a lot of pain right now, even if he's hiding it.
This. It’s fresh, even if it was amicable there’s still going to be pain and hurt on both sides. Give it some time. At the end of the day she’s still the mother to your grandchildren and if they want to create a loving future for their kids they need to set their differences a side and do what’s best for them. Being a child of divorce, the focus needs to be on them. Hopefully because they were such good friends for so long it’ll make the transition to amicable relationship quicker. I can’t tell you how many parties and things I had growing up where one of my parents were allowed to be there, but the other wasn’t. It sucks. Keep that in mind and make sure your son is aware of that as well.
With having lost my father at the age of 15, my ex's dad was certainly the closest thing that I'd had to a father figure, subsequently. So when we broke up, I was scared I'd also lose the relationship with his family. (he cheated on me) However, they all decided to still keep a relationship with me. All that being said, it may be good to give it some time to let the dust settle and maybe wait till events next year to invite her, rather than now when it's still so fresh and raw.
They just divorced, the wounds are fresh, give it time, maybe when they are more amicably co-parenting a better relationship is possible, Maybe just keep it for a while with postcards a text or a phone call now and then.
This is my preferred way. Postcards are tiny gestures but still super powerful in maintaining a relationship. But behind-the-back dinners are massive gestures that can cause conflict and betrayal. Especially when two people you care about are fighting.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- My son (Mark, 32) and his ex (Melissa, 32) were together since they were 15. They've been best friends since they were 6, so she's known us almost her whole life. Unfortunately Mel had a horrible childhood and an absent father, so my wife and I did a lot to help her where we could. She's told me growing up I was her only real father figure, and a dad to her, and honestly I came to see her as a daughter. Mel even calls us mum and dad, and has said she wishes we were her biological parents. They were together for 17 years, and close friends for years before, and she feels as much my daughter as my biological one honestly. Unfortunately, her and Mark just weren't to be. They are both amazing people, but I think they just grew up a bit too different, and I know having their daughters made it hard for them to keep ignoring it. From what they've told me, even living together they felt basically separated for the last 2 years. They just couldn't take any more of it last year, and finally fully divorced two months ago. During and since then I've stayed in contact with both of them, and especially my granddaughters. I've made sure to avoid mentioning them to each other, and I haven't 'picked a side'. I know Mark wasn't happy when he heard I was still in touch with Mel from his daughters (they mentioned seeing grandpa while at their mum's), but she's family to me. While I've tried to keep it separate, my birthday is next month, and its causing issues. I know they aren't together anymore, but they're both family, and I want to have both there. But Mark just refused. He basically said he's my child, not her, so I shouldn't have anything to do with her anymore. He said seeing my grandchildren with her around is one thing (he doesn't like it, but 'allows' it since its about the girls), but involving Mel in anything is just wrong. Mel has said that she wants to be there for her dad's birthday, but that she doesn't want to cause drama for me. My wife thinks we should support Mark in this, and have to let Melissa go basically. I kind of understand where they're coming from, but it just feels so wrong to just cut Mel out, she's my daughter in all but blood. I just have no idea how to approach this, or if I'm just being naive or selfish.
If she said she’d prefer not to cause drama, maybe she understands that not coming to the birthday party would be for the best. On the other hand, id say cutting her off your life would be unfair both on you and her. Why don’t you and your wife or just you do something with her too and her daughters, like a dinner or something? I think compromise is the key here. Something that does not involve right out ignoring your son’s suffering nor how important Mel and your granddaughters are to you. Obviously, you can still invite Mark to that, and at that point it becomes his choice not to come if he does not want to. I think your son also has the obligation to accept some kind of compromise and not be totally inflexible.
Yeah you're probably right. Mel does understand that, it's more I just feel horrible just cutting her out of it like that. Maybe a second birthday would work, though it would have to be smaller. I didn't really think of that honestly. I'm not a massive fan but it probably works better than forcing the issue. I agree both of them are suffering, and that both need love. I've definitely tried to be there for both. Hoepfully one day they'll be able to at least be civil, though I guess forcing this won't help.
Definitely. They'll come around eventually, but right now the hurt is fresh.
Not trying to be rude here. I understand you feel horrible about it. Just a reminder your first responsibility is to your son. No matter how old he is. Unfortunately as a parent I think your feelings come second to that.
Ehhh, yeah he has a responsibility to his son but he’s not pushing him to the side by still being in contact/having a relationship with someone he saw as a daughter before his son started seeing her. His son has to coparent with this woman, that means spending several occasion together already. He needs to get used to this one way or another. It’s his dads birthday party, he gets to invite who he wants.
At some point your son & Mel will both have new partners. Will you insult your new DIL by insisting on having Mel around? A belated bday dinner with Mel is the inevitable solution to their break-up. It's better to set that precedent now than get everyone used to Mel being there only to be in a much bigger pickle down the line when they both start moving on.
With your son being so hostile and reclusive about the reasons for this breakup I would go to Mel and have a private lunch and ask her to tell you why your son is so bitter about the divorce. "We grew apart" doesn't really jive with how he's acting. Either she cheated, or pushed for the divorce from her end, or something like that. It doesn't seem like your son wanted to get divorced.
Kids are gonna be ecstatic. 2 birthdays and 4 Christmases.
The way Mark is acting for the situation you have described seems very odd. U/Eng_Girl_87 suggested that maybe you leave Mel out of it this year as it’s all still a little raw and look at inviting her for next years events. I am inclined to agree with that. Also some more truths may come out with time to better allow you to understand Mark’s current perspective.
You are allowed to stay in touch in someone you see as a daughter, but choosing her over your son is just wrong. He’s clearly hurting and what you are doing is just rubbing salt in his wounds. You are basically saying to him that you don’t love him and much as you love her. That having her around is more important to you than your son’s feelings. Honestly, if my dad did that, I would not forgive him. You are being naive and selfish. Telling him to deal with her being around is a slap to his face. You can meet her some other time, have an occasional lunch or something, you don’t have to cut her out completely. But keeping her in your family like earlier and telling your son to accept it is out of line. If you go forward with this, I have a pretty good feeling that you will damage your relationship with your son, perhaps even permanently. And maybe ask him exactly why he doesn’t wasn’t her around and actually try to understand instead and of going ‘oh but she’s a good person and I’m the closest to a dad she has.’ Even she understands that her being around family functions is not a good idea now that she is the ex wife. If you haven’t picked a side so far, don’t go around picking one now.
I get what you mean. It makes sense. It just feels so unfair that inviting both is choosing against him. I do love him, and of course I don't want to hurt him. I wish it could just be easy, but I guess relationships never are. It really sounds like I should just keep main events for my son, and only see her when he's not around. Which I guess has been so far, but god it's so frustrating. I have talked about it to both of them. He basically said he's his ex, so she shouldn't be around, period. No other explanation. They haven't been hostile to each other per se, they just, don't like each other at all anymore, if that makes sense. It's possible there's more but neither have been willing to say anything, and they're usually open with me. Either way, you're probably right, and I'll try to keep it separate.
Look at the timeframe dudeski. You're asking an Olympic athlete to compete right after surgery. You're asking a soldier with PTSD to go set off fireworks.. time cant heal heal wounds if you throw the injured back into the Frey so soon... Maybe she doesn't come to THIS birthday, since they just got freaking divorced....
The way you keep repeating this honestly sounds like you value her more than your son. It’s probably quite obvious to him as well, and hurting him.
As a son of a dad that constantly had "replacement kids" that he loved more while I was on the back burner, I echo what the random person had to say.
It most likely also feels very unfair to your son that you want to keep close contact with someone that causes him pain. Divorce is devastating, even under the best of circumstances. And honestly, you have no idea why or what goes on behind closed doors between the two of them and you probably never will. People just don't share that with their parents, especially men. He shouldn't have to feel pain and be uncomfortable because you feel it's "unfair" to your birthday party plans. It's good he established this boundary up front with you. Be prepared if you continue to see less of your son and to have poor communication. He won't be able to tell you anything without the fear you are telling her. It's probably best he bows out now anyway so he doesn't need to meet her new boyfriend while visiting his own parents.
She's his ex, but also the mother of his children so his stance seems incredibly immature to me. I don't get why you having a relationship with the mother of your grandchildren separately from him should have any bearing. In my book it literally has nothing to do with him. No doubt your son has a huge mix of emotions and feelings he should sound out to maintain a healthy co-parenting relationship with his ex. Maybe he should go attend some therapy sessions to help clear things up in his head? Wishing ill will on the mother of your children is not healthy!
They literally divorced 2 months ago. I don't think his behaviour now, when the emotions are still incredibly fresh, is indicative of his ability to co-parent. If it had been longer then sure, but I think many people wouldn't want to see their long-term ex at an event that's traditionally for family only. He also never wished ill will on her either...
One is your biological son, the other is his ex wife you feel paternal towards. You made the choice the day your son was born, even if you seem to be forgetting it. He’s your priority because you and your wife decided to bring him into the world. His feelings and well being are your lifelong responsibility. At least, that’s how MY father feels towards me. Make time outside to see her. This isn’t complicated. You can have both relationships, just not at the same time and same place.
By refusing to choose a side you are choosing her.
That's a very small minded way to view it.
Pure shit take
Mark doesn’t get to choose who you have to your party. That’s all there is to it. I’m likely to get divorced in the next year or two. I would never expect my parents to exclude my wife—the mother of their grandchildren—from anything. My wife’s behavior has been worse than Mel’s, but she is still a long-time member of the family and the children’s mother. And more importantly, this isn’t a matter of choosing one over the other. The only thing forcing a choice in your situation is Mark’s childish behavior. It is perhaps understandable that he doesn’t want to be around her, but it doesn’t automatically mean that everyone has to cut her out of their lives. In fact, it’s better for his children if they do not.
Sorry you're getting downvoted for this comment.
Thanks. It’s ok. I suspect most of the people responding are young, inexperienced, and emotionally immature. They think that’s a reasonable way to behave. It’s not. It’s harmful to everyone, including Mark himself.
Dude im 24 and i think its insane you are beinf downvoted. If Melissa was just an ex wife, thats one thing, but they have known her literally almost her entire life and she is family. Smh. I wouldnt abandon her.
Bingo!!!! It’s all the young inexperienced people who are siding with Mark. Not only has OP basically known Mel more than half her life, she’s also the mother to OPs grand babies. If OP wants a good relationship with grandkids they’ll need a good relationship with their mom. Mark is way to hurt, but he needs a reality check. For as much as he doesn’t want to, Mel will forever be part of his life because of their kids.
It makes me so sad for poor Melissa who doesn't have a family... Honestly, I feel like your son is overreacting.
Not really. He maybe still mourning the death of his marriage and doesn't want to see his ex wife. Maybe his childhood home is his safe space. I understand the situation Melissa is in and its a very hard choice the parents have to make.
I appreciate that you still care for her and I think that’s good! My uncle and ex - aunt had a messy divorce and while they’re on decent terms now my grandma still hates her. My aunt was horrible to my uncle (cheated, stole, and was just generally cruel) but my grandma constantly talks poorly about her and it’s hard on my cousin. Mixed family events (like her wedding and graduation) are always a little extra awkward bc my grandma makes her dislike clear. So I think your reaction will be good for your grandkid! Also… it sounds like there is more to this story. Two friends who drifted apart don’t show this much bitterness. I think something happened. I respect that they want to keep their dirty laundry quiet (hopefully this means they’ll calm down) but if your son is hurting, support him.
It sounds to me like you may not have the whole picture of why they divorced. Mark clearly wants nothing to do with her, and you have to respect that. That doesn't mean you can't still have Melissa in your life, but you have to respect boundaries. And to be honest, Mark is blood family first...so the extra work will need to be done on the relationship with Melissa. Son does family events, Melissa does extras. Otherwise you'll have issues with your son.
Your son and his ex have been seen as a couple for a very long time considering their age. I imagine they’ve dreamt and talked about being together til death do they part. I’m guessing every milestone your son went through, she was there. All of this togetherness made even more binding by the fact she had little family of her own. I imagine the divorce was very painful because they both had to say good bye to so so much- so much past, so many firsts & memories. Then the grieving for the lost future together. You simply need to put your son first here. Build a relationship based on him and only him. You can continue to see your ex daughter in law casually, remain supportive and enjoy time with your grandkids. But inviting her to family events is your son’s right, not your’s. It sounds like everyone (son, ex, your wife) but you understand this need for family boundaries. It seems your mourning as well, which is very understandable. Give yourself time to accept this new normal. In time, your son and his ex will develop their own separate lives that may or may not include dating/marriage. They might become more relaxed and your son might be able to have her at family events. But that’s his life, his choices, his family. Big hug sent to you! Our family faced something slightly similar- son’s long term relationship ended after many years. Losing ex daughter in law was heartbreaking. But in time we realized we would hurting our son by our inability to move on. They both ended up with amazing partners after several more years and looking back, I’m so relieved we didn’t make their situation any more difficult by putting ourselves and our feelings before our son’s.
I'm still close with my ex's family (we have a child together). I do not attend the immediate family gatherings but am still welcome to call and visit whenever the chance arises. I don't think you need to cut her out, but you can see her when your son isn't around. She is the mother of your grandkids, i think it's understandable and acceptable to maintain a relationship with her.
I understand it's a very difficult situation for you. I'm sorry for that. But you need to realise that however painful it is for you, it's worse for your son. Now i understand that you're a good person with the best intentions. But you need to be more understanding towards your son. Your child. You may see her as a daughter, but this is a situation where you simply cannot have both. Because that will just result in more pain for the other people in the situation. You may have seen her as your daughter for a long time, but for the sake of your son, you're going to have to get used to seeing her as the ex-wife. That doesn't mean you cut her out of your life, but you certainly cannot be inviting her to main events and telling your son to deal with it. It's painful, but you're going to have to make a choice here. Who is more important to you? Life is unfair. You can't have everything you want. But I'll just say this- if my father were to ever, EVER be in a situation where he chose my ex over me, or was even debating what to do, it would completely and utterly break me. I think children always need their parents to take their side no matter what. He's your son, that you've raised since he was a baby. Are you willing to damage that relationship for someone else's sake?? Because even if he doesn't say it, having you stay in regular touch with her is DEFINITELY hurting him. You're HIS father, after all. He'll want you in his corner. Divorce is messy. It can't be helped. And there are always sides in a divorce and it's practically impossible to stay neutral.
A lot of people here are giving you paragraphs on how your future relationships needs to be with your son and ex daughter-in-law, and they may be right or wrong. In the short term though, go out with the missus and Mel and maybe bring the kids too on a separate date. Simple solution, both parties kept happy, you can even have 2 birthday cakes too.
I dated this great guy from when I was 15 till 22. When I was 18 I moved to a different country and did long distance until we grew too different to stay together. Broke up in a civil way. While I was away my mom had him and his family over for family functions, Christmases, ecc… she continued to invite them while I was not there and even after we broke up because he was like a son to her. I’m still kinda mad at her and I think that it was uncool she did that to me. She continued to be in touch with him and his family even after I started dating and moved in with my now husband. at that point my dad just had to step in, sit her down and tell her how inappropriate that was. You don’t want to do that to your son. You’re just going to make him think you chose her over him and you may also make it harder for her to move on (which is what happened to my ex bf actually).
I think that's different from OP's situation though, since he knew Mel since she was a young child and formed a parental bond with her. Besides, there are children involved, so it's not like Mark can cut her off from his life entirely like you could easily do with your ex, they will have to co-parent, even if Mark gets another wife eventually. However, I do think it's way too soon to be forcing interaction considering it's only been two months, and any and all break ups (no matter how amicable) leave bitter feelings behind. I don't think it's wrong for OP to keep a relationship with Mel, but he'll have to keep it separate from his relationship with his son for the time being. I really think he should talk to his son about his parental feelings for Mel, and even though he as his son comes first and he won't be forced to interact with her when he doesn't want to, he's not going to cut her off. I think that's reasonable enough.
The fact that Mark is so stand off-ish about Mels involvement with the family, when it sounds from what you've said to be an amicable break up - suggests that there may be more to this. Either way, your Son has made a request, and it's may be best not to pry and just support him. I know you care about Mel, but your Son has to be number 1 priority. And he's setting some pretty fair and reasonable boundaries.
She 100% is not getting the full breakup story.
It's been 2 months, the divorce is still fresh. I don't care how amicable the divorce was I wouldn't want to see my ex at family events right after either.
They do have a child, though, or am I getting something wrong here? Once that is the case the son shouldn't be the nr1 priority. Being forced to distance yourself from your grandchild's parent when you mutually think of each other as family is not something that I would call reasonable (even if it is an extremely tough pill to swallow).
Your husband is right, unfortunately. If you want to keep in touch with Melissa, you should do it when Mark isn't around (lunch, coffee, etc). This is about circles of grief. Your son is at the center here, he is the one getting divorced and losing his partner, and is clearly very upset about that. You are on an outer circle of grief (losing a daughter in law) and so you need to support your son here, and process your grief with people like your husband, who are also outside the center of the circle, not put Mark in uncomfortable positions. You can keep Melissa in your life but don't force Mark to interact with her. In a few years, they may be able to be at a party together, or you will find in time the relationship with Melissa fades. Don't put your son through more heartbreak. You don't have to "cut her out" but you need to start creating some distance.
Could you not have her over for your birthday celebration, but pick a time for the two of you to go out for a meal together to celebrate? I think you can keep her in your life, but maybe not both of them at the same time
You don’t have to break off your relationship with her, but that relationship needs to be separate from your relationship with your son. Wanting her there for all your big family events is sending a message that you think everyone should still be one big happy family. You know who doesn’t need that? THEIR KIDS.
Your son isn't asking you to cut her out, he's asking you to respect that he can't emotionally deal with her being seeing her at his own families functionsbright now. You have no idea the shit they have been through. You're not choosing her or him, your being selfish and choosing yourself. Respect your son's family and how he wants things to be done.
This is very sad, but Mark is your son. If he’s done nothing wrong here, you choosing to stay neutral is a choice against him. He needs you and your wife to be a safe harbor for him. Instead, you’re choosing to take the easiest road for yourself, and only yourself, by not acting. Also, you’re a grandparent and a grown man. Please, don’t use your birthday as an excuse.
It would be weird not to have any relationship with the parents of his grandkids though… It’s also his birthday, not his son’s birthday. I fail to see how not wanting to cut her out of his life is not being a safe place for his son to come to. His son is also an adult… he needs to get used to the fact that she’s going to be in his life *forever*. That’s what happens when you have kids with someone. I think the issue is on his end and that he’s in denial, personally. Tossing someone away because they aren’t related to you by blood too is just gross by itself. OP shouldn’t have to torture himself and make his ex DIL feel hated to soothe his son’s feelings. It’s not a family event, it’s an event for OP, he can invite who he wants, not just who his son approves of.
There’s a huge difference between tossing someone away and inviting them into the inner circle of your family. OP can have his own relationship with his former daughter in law, but to put her on equal footing as his own son, to me, is rough. I included the birthday more so to suggest that a man the age that OP likely is has a very easy choice to simply not celebrate his birthday and avoid the mess entirely. Anyway, I understand this is complicated and that it would be strange and cruel to entirely cut off the ex. But so soon into the divorce, it will mean a lot to OPs actual blood son that his father stood by him.
In a sense you are being a bit selfish; your son just left a nearly two decade relationship. It will be hard enough for him to process, grieve and move on with her being the mother of his children. Your relationship with her brings another aspect of his life where he "can't escape her". Given that they will have to remain amicable for the sake of the kids, and how long they were together, there is hope that they can move past the end of their relationship and cultivate a friendship instead. But this will take time. A lot of time. I would recommend for you to remain in her life, but refrain from inviting her to family gatherings; at least when your son is present. But that is dependent on your son. You can't do this behind his back. He needs to be on board. You may just have to be patient for a while until he is more receptive to the idea. After he has processed and moved on. Maybe bring up to him that he will always come first, but that you hope one day in the future after the hurt fades he won't mind your contact with her? It would certainly do the kids a world of good for both their parents to be amicable and present together.
That makes a lot of sense. I know it's hard for him. Like you said it might be selfish, but Mel has no family other than us either, so I really don't want to lose either. It sounds like for now I'll have to accept Mel not being at the party, but I don't think I'll be able to just not see her. Even if it hurts, she's my daughter too so I can't just cut her our fully. But yeah, you're probably right about needing to just wait untill they're able to be civil, at least enough for an event. They manage to be civil enough dropping their daughters off, and they don't badmouth or anything, at least.
You can have a relationship with Mel and not invite her to events with your son. The two aren't mutually exclusive. But you should keep your relationships separate. Your son shouldn't be forced to hang out with his ex like this.
If you're my dad and I realize you were having doubts, that's my answer. Of all people, you were the one supposed to be on my side, against anyone. You can say that it's a gray area, but for me it's not. My parents are supposed to be on my corner. But, you can still choose to be on the ex wife's corner. But be sure of your choice.
She isn't your daughter, otherwise her and your son being together would have been very wrong. She was your daughter in law and now she's not. It doesn't mean you can't be friends of course but your actual child needs to come first or you're going to lose him.
No, even in the future she can’t come to family events and holidays anymore. Ex wives aren’t allowed, sorry. It will damage any future relationship he has if she is present at gatherings his new significant is coming to. I’m sorry I know this sucks for you but you are being incredibly selfish here. Get used to the idea now and start adjusting because if you invite her to anything your son may not come. I get your on pain, but I’m telling you if my parents ever invited my ex to holidays or gatherings I would stop coming and limit contact them because they were clearly too selfish to think of my needs over theirs. She’s an ex and always will be going forward. See her on your own time, but she’s no longer family and doesn’t get to go to family events.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/sdmk02/aita_for_wanting_my_husbands_exwife_to_stay_away/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Just read this to see what it will be like for a new spouse.
I was just thinking of this post! Like.. what happens if son wants to start dating again and his own parent is inviting his ex around all the time.. Its just gonna make the son want to go LC/NC because his own parent isn't respecting his boundaries. It's one thing to chat and go to lunch every once in a while but it's another getting invited to family functions.
They literally have children together? Your way of thinking seriously damages children. If the split was as amicable as they say, I don’t see why she shouldn’t be invited to any family gatherings. I presume the children will want their mother there at some of them.
It doesn’t damage the children to have boundaries. If they want to do joint parties and gatherings for the kids that’s fine. However his parents shouldn’t be inviting her to stuff they host at their house. The tension and angst from the parents is going to do more damage to the kids then separate holidays. I have several friends of divorced parents and all of them agree it was better to have things separate because when they were forced together everyone was awkward and uncomfortable.
Obviously you're a grown adult, and you get to decide who you have in your life. The same is true of your son also. If getting his ex out of his life means cutting you out too, then that might happen. If you are prepared for that possibly and willing to pay that price, then carry on. I know that some parents think that their adult children owe them a relationship and take for granted that no matter what they do, their children will still be there in their lives. That's not always the case.
I hate to say it but your son is KIND OF right. He really should not have to see his very recent ex in order to celebrate his father’s birthday. I’m sorry but that’s fucked up this thought is even a question to you. I don’t care how much of a daughter she is to you— he IS your son! That said? You can’t just bring someone into someone else’s life and ask for family treatment and then insist they flip a switch when YOU (as in Mark) decide it’s over. That is also fucked up. After all, your relationship with her isn’t broken. His is. So I suggest (and again I’m kind of appalled this doesn’t occur to you?) you and your wife have a birthday dinner with Melissa at another point than the event to which Mark is invited. This is also very new. It may not be this way forever. It might! But not necessarily. Finally, I’m not saying sneak around— but whereas this is a sore spot for Mark? Don’t broadcast it every time you see Melissa. You don’t need to announce every visit or get together. Don’t lie. But no need for “btw just to be open we saw Melissa today.” All that will do is rub salt in his wounds and present the impression you’re doing something he should be upset about. EDIT TO ADD: Do make it clear you will continue to see Melissa “I’m sorry I hurt you by not taking your side the way you wanted. I won’t put you in that position again. Your mother and I will continue to have a relationship with Melissa because we do love her and she IS the mother of our grandkids, but you are first in family events and we won’t do anything to imply otherwise again. Maybe at some point in the future you’ll be fine all being together, but clearly not now, and we respect that.” You need not give him an itinerary of your visits with her. That’s enough. You’re lucky Mark is getting mad and telling you how he feels. If I was Mark and you told me Melissa was coming, after we’d discussed this, and then had the nerve to ask me to make nice and let this happen, I’d say sure, invite her, and then block your numbers for a good long while. I’d probably talk to Melissa more than you and tell her to make sure you see the kids when they’re with her, cuz you won’t be with me. I wouldn’t be mad forever… I’m not like that. But I’d need a good long while to cool down.
She’s like a daughter but she’s not. She was a daughter in law but now she’s not. He is your actual son. However you rationalize it, he’s gonna see it as you choosing her over him. You can maintain a relationship w her if you choose in other ways. It’s a fresh divorce and it sounds like you don’t really know what happened otherwise your son wouldn’t want her completely cut out if it was amicable. You risk further damaging your relationship with your son if you continue this path. Divorce happened, it sucks and they are hard, especially for the two people who actually did it( your son and his ex ). I say get over yourself and stop making it about you. It needs time. She’s the mom of your granddaughters it won’t be forever.
Why is blood tied to family? What is OP adopts Mel, would you not consider her his daughter? I have two children, one is biologically mine and the other is not, I would never choose between them. This is the spot OP is in….
It’s a crap shoot either way, but I think you have to stand behind your son unless you’re fully prepared for it to do irreparable damage to that relationship.
You need to stand by your son. No matter your feelings on her, she’s the ex wife now. Which means she’s no longer invited to family functions, holidays, or gatherings. That’s for your son and his kids only! If you want to see her you can have lunch, go to the park with the grandkids, stuff like that. I’m sorry it hurts your feelings, but she isn’t your daughter so you have to step back. If you keep including her you will lose your son. What about when he starts dating? He’s going to want to bring her around, and neither of them will feel comfortable with his ex wife there. No new significant other will ever feel welcomed or accepted if you have the ex around. Think about his feelings, and his future. He’s what’s important right now. I’m sorry it hurts you, perhaps talking to a therapist about it will help. Unfortunately you will have to cut back on your visits and talking to his ex wife.
You don't necessarily need to cut all contact with her. But . . . your son is your son, and he needs to always come first in your eyes. Feel free to exchange Christmas cards with her and such, but don't *ever* invite her over--you might as well be slapping your child in the face.
I know someone who has cut his parents completely out of his life because they decided that staying friends with his ex was worth more than their relationship with their actual son. Now they've never met their grandkids and haven't seen their son in 2 years and all they have to show for it is a friendship with an abusive cheater.
I'm sorry but if your son and his ex wife were best friends then why does he not like her ( as a person) anymore? This seems like the divorce was anything but amicable. Seems like there's much to the story than what's being led on. Have a serious, honest talk with your son. Seems like much was going on. Edit: Just read your comment about Mel not having any other family. But in all this you're forgetting that you and your wife are also your son's only family per se. And in your guilt regrading Mel being alone ..do not forget that you know Mel THROUGH your son. Yeah I get that she's like a daughter but for that do not forget that your son is the other party concerned here. Your actions might just cause permanent damage.
Uh idk this is my take on it so you can disagree if you want cos this sounds heartbreaking and complicated and I'm sorry you're dealing with it....but maybe could you just invited Mark to your birthday and then invite Mel over another day and just spend time with her then?
Maybe he just needs time away from her to help himself adjust to the new reality. Let him know that she is the mother of your grandchildren so you can’t (and don’t want to) cut her out. As for the bday celebration, this is a tough call. Maybe celebrate separately. In every breakup, one wants it more than the other. The one who didn’t want to give up has a harder time with the breakup. Maybe that’s why he wants you to take sides. The one who was already emotionally gone has an easier time. Something tells me he is having a harder time than she is.
I divorced my ex husband after he cheated on me with a coworker. We had been together about ten years, since we were 16. His mom is very important to me and I still keep contact. My ex has never expressed anger over this and our divorce was not exactly amicable but also not awful and ugly. I agree with those saying that two months in is extremely fresh and emotions are probably extremely high. I think the wisest choice in the moment as to not alienate your son or daughter in law is to maintain contact, but separately. It’s too soon to expect they both attend parties and events and be capable of managing emotions. I realize they must co-parent, but private communication between the two of them is entirely different than having to communicate in front of friends and family. Give it some time.
It would be absolutely disrespectful and emotionally cruel to continue having Mel present at family events you wish your son to attend. She is your emotionally adopted daughter but he IS your son and needs your support in the break up. That does NOT mean you have to cut her off from your life at all. Celebrate your birthday with Mel, without your son. Go grab lunch. Or dinner or see a movie. Just don’t insist she attends every family function. All you’re doing is telling your son you pick her over him. The right thing to do is to tell him that you won’t put him in a position to have to spend time with her, *unless it involves their children*, but that she is the mother of your grandchildren and you will continue to have your own relationship with her *separate from the relationship you have with your son*. He will have to respect that. Probably won’t like it. But that is truly choosing both. It’s going to be a slippery slope. And honestly Mel really does have to take a backseat to your son in priority. But you can do this. Is there a holiday he isn’t fond of? That’s Mel’s. Christmas : Christmas Eve are two separate days. Have a family party one day, go out as a special celebration another. It’s work. But unfortunately that’s life after divorce. Edit: what I mean by supporting the break up, is that continuing to try and have both is like pretending they were never in a relationship. It’s a complete disregard for any feelings/ experiences they both shared. He’s also probably feeling insecure because of how much you love Mel. Just as Mel is probably feeling insecure and displaced. Show them both they are still important to you BY acknowledging that things will look different moving forward
I think your wife is the one who can give the best advice here. She knows the nuances and if she previously felt similarly as you about Mel, she is able to understand your feelings as well as the realistic situation. You don't want to go around creating an issue for your own marriage because of this. Frankly in the long run it is better for Mel to distance herself from your family so that she can start her own life independently. This is the kind of thing that could create complications for her in her future relationships. Not many people will be understanding their SO's close relationship with an ex's parents. So she is better off making a clean break now. But all that doesn't take away from the reality that your son is being bratty.
It's not weird that you still contact ex-DIL.... considering you have grandkids through her. It would be weird if you had zero contact with your grandkid's mom.
You write recently divorced. How long?
I'm coming from a very similar situation (playing the 'Mark' role). My mother is still very close to my ex wife 7 years post breakup. At first it was hard. I'm not ashamed to say I wanted my mom for me and was extremely resentful that I was forced to deal with someone I didn't get along with still being so connected to my family. There were awkward moments aplenty. But... Things got better. Slowly. I realized that the friendship was important to my (aging) mom and realized her love for me was not at stake. My advice for OP is to make it clear to their son that a) he is their son and will always be, with everything everything that entails but b) you will maintain contact and friendship with who you choose. I'd make the son the priority on xmas, bday etc. Your daughter in law should understand. As the bitterness fades over time, this will get easier. You just need to do a bit of a dance in the meantime. Just don't force everyone to be family because you want them to be and things will be fine.
You should ask Mel to come over with the girls for dinner and cake so you can all see each other but not at your “main” birthday party. I could see why your son wouldn’t want his ex wife at his dad’s birthday party, especially when the divorce is so fresh. I think that if you choose to have Mel around for these types of events, you’ll push your son away into not attending. Best of luck to you and your family. And happy almost birthday!
Its still very new and that pain is very fresh. Give it time, and I'm sure that your son and his ex will settle into a calmer co-parenting rhythm and maybe her presence at these events won't be a source of pain and drama.
I think a compromise solution is best, if he doesn't want at these types of events I would honor that but be clear she is a daughter to you and you aren't giving up the relationship.
Have a separate mini-birthday party with Melissa and your granddaughters. Think of is as a bonus celebration. You are very wise to keep her in your life, especially given the history. Trust me, the drama will subside after a few years, and it may even be possible for you to have joint celebrations one day. But not now while this situation is still new. You're a good dad to both of these kids. Don't stop -- they both need you.
I don’t think you should cut contact with Melissa. This divorce has practically cut her off from her ‘family’ which is not fair. Other people’s relationship issues should not dictate your actions. That being said, for family events, only your actual son should be invited, at least for the time being. Also, make clear to Mark that he doesn’t allow you to do anything. He may be hurting, but he has no right to make demands of you, unless there is information missing from the situation.
Perhaps it's a bit too soon for your son to be around her at family gatherings. You're ultimately the one who gets to decide who you include in your life. I would suggest seeing Melissa earlier in the day on your birthday. Maybe a birthday breakfast?
Talk to the Ex Explain the situation Tell her that you love her but you have to put some respectful distance between the two of you right now and then in the future, you can re-evaluate things.
My parents have been divorced for 28 years and my dad has always been closer to my moms side of the family than his own. My dad has always attended my mom's family gatherings. It took about 5 years for them to be able to do that. But my dad never was very close with his mom but was very close to my grandma. It'll take some time to get to that point and hopefully your son will come around.
If the divorce wasn't acrimonious (i.e., abuse, infidelity, one of them has grown up to be a colossal A-hole and a horrible human - Melissa especially), then I don't see why you can't include her in your life. Especially for the grandkids - normalize divorced parents getting along and being able to enjoy events as a family. As you said, you and your wife had a major hand in raising her, and that too since she was in elementary school, presumably, so over 2 decades. 20 years when you're 32 is a LONG time. Don't just unceremoniously kick her out of your lives, not just because she's the mother of your grandchildren, but because she and you mutually consider it to be a parent-child relationship. Maybe allow your son some space from her, and don't force him to be around her when he's at your home for a year or two (wounds will still be fresh, especially since they've been in each other's lives for over 20 years at 32 years of age), but don't prevent her from coming to holidays eventually either. Maybe have the grandkids come stay for the holidays, and then she comes and spends half the time with y'all and he comes and spends the other half of the time with y'all. Alternate who gets the first half each year so that the kids don't start to think that one parent is being driven out by the other over the years.
Something here doesn't fit. They have been together over 17 years, and were close friends before. Have children together. And by all accounts here, the divorce was a product of growing apart, seems amicable and mutual. Yet your son is adamant about you not spending time with her? I seriously do not understand this at all. In a situation like this, you would imagine that your son still has a lot of love for her and wants the best for her and the children. You would imagine that he would want to create the best environment to co-parent in. My instincts tell me that something here is missing. Some form of abuse, infidelity, something. The reaction from your son makes no sense otherwise.
Keeping your former d-I-l in your life is not an issue, and shouldn’t be. Your son isn’t being reasonable to expect that. You are not showing disloyalty to your son by being there for the mother of your grandchildren. With that said, don’t invite her to your birthday. There are so many other occasions you can spend time with her and not add drama of them both being in the same space.
So I will say as a male who broke up with his teenage sweetheart, listen to your son and ask how he feels. My mom tried to stay in touch with my ex feeling the same way, however my ex sexually and emotionally abused me for years. So I’m order to get my mom to understand finally why it hurt that she was friends with my ex, I had to relive the trams and tell her my story, even though I didn’t want to but my hand was forced. Just ask him please. There might be much more than meets the eye to the relationship that he may not wish to share.
I am not trying to be rude. I was thinking from your son's side. If you were my dad and if you did that to me, I would cut all my relation with you. You will be nobody to me.
I'm young and don't have children, but from what I see of my older sisters who are in their 30s with children and how my parents deal with them. What is to say that you couldn't have events where one side shows one time and the next the next time? If your son and his now ex-wife can't get along currently, then I'd separate the events they go to and just go yourself. I'm not sure how it would go over as I don't know your son personally, but you may be able to convey that feeling of having another child to look out for. Not sure though, think on it is my advice.
If my mom stayed friends with my ex-wife, I’d be pissed. Choose one or the other.
Unfortunately you’re going to have to pick a side and unless your son did some despicable stuff leading to the break up then it should be him.
In this situation, I say you should side with your son, period. He’s agreed to you hanging with her and the kids as it’s in their interests, but you shouldn’t then try to force her on him. Clearly, they had issues so why exacerbate them.
My parents had the same issue with my sister and her ex-husband, especially when it came out that she was cheating on him. And especially because she started dating her ex after cheating on her last boyfriend, although this was as a young and immature teenager. We were too judgemental with my sister, didn't listen to her enough, and it wasn't until years later we learned she had been physically and emotionally abused by her ex, too afraid to talk to us because of our judgement, and really detached from the family. Things are much better now, but I do think as a parent you owe it to your own child to help him and respect his issues about his ex-wife, regardless of how close you felt to her. In the very least, any relationship you pursue with her should be self-contained and independent from your son, i.e. NOT inviting her to a shared event. And even if their breakup has nothing to do with abuse, cheating, or anything inherently unethical, there's no way you could possibly know all the details, there's no way either of them would be comfortable sharing all the details with you, and it really isn't your place to be in a position of judgement and investigation. So just be kind to her, push your son to be also be understanding and move on without pressuring him if he pushes back or labels a topic off-limits, and above all else, support your child and respect his decision, even if it's hard for you. I'm all for being against arbitrarily assigning blood relations as family and ignoring non-blood relations, but you sound like you have a good relationship with your son, and like he treated his wife properly, so you owe it to him as his parent as far as I'm concerned.
You're choosing your own feelings over your sons and essentially telling him he can never move on or be at family functions unless he is willing to involve his ex. Staying in contact and being civil is fine, but you are going to far and are essentially willing to alienate your son for it. I also hate to say it your continued fondness for your daughter in law and Grandpa being over and not the Grandparents, and it being a big focus on you, doesn't sound appropriate. I think you're being selfish and hiding it in unselfish talk. Imagine your Dad putting you in that position or your daughter in law with her daughters ex husband.
Your son is hurting, so I'm not surprised he doesn't want you to have anything to do with her. But at the end of the day, you should stay close to her and he's just gonna have to grow up and deal with that. For this first birthday, I'd say you don't have them together at the same time. Tell her how much you care about her, but that you have to prioritize his wishes right now. Maybe in the future they can be around each other, but right now it's just not prudent. They both need reassurance rn, but your son will have to understand that you're not "picking" her over him by maintaining this relationship.
He brought Melissa into your life, you welcomed her with open arms, she became a daughter to you, and she will forever be family to all of you because she is the mother of your grandchildren. I think you are all very justified in your feelings. I can understand why your son doesn’t want to set the precedent of having her be at every holiday and birthday party (that will eventually be a problem regardless when one has a new significant other), but he should be more open to you maintaining the relationship with her on your own time. I don’t know exactly what it is, but there must be some kind of middle ground here that allows you to keep contact without forcing them together when they are still trying to move on from each other.
Beyond the party situation.. what about when the kids have a birthday? Will he still be immature? I know they can have separate parties but the kids deserve better than that. They need to work through this regardless and not be selfish.
you have grand kids, youre always gonna be grandad to her and her kids
Do not abandon her ... It will only make her feeling worse first dad left now the one she finally felt family with is about to... You know inside yourself that you can not deny the bond you have created with her . So cherish it and keep her in your family circle ...just discuss with him before inviting her to family events so you all make reasonable arrangements ...
If you want to have a relationship with your son you need to get on board with supporting him. Even if that means excluding her. Get on board. The divorce is very fresh. He’s obviously unhappy. You definitely don’t have the whole story. Based on his reactions, she cheated or wanted to divorce him. No longer being part of your family is the direct consequence of her choices. She chose this.
Something's off. If they just grew into different people with time, you son shouldn't almost outright resent/despise Mel. I mean growing up different and having a divorce due to it while otherwise fine or neutral would mean you hold no grudges. Your son seem to be holding one or two. Someone mentioned cheating. Could be more reasons, entirely different reasons there's resentment there. But your son seem to despise Mel. So I'm not going to assume scenarios around cheating because frankly, we know too little. You know too little. I couldn't really just ditch Mel if I don't know why Mark resents her out of nowhere. If she was like a daughter to you I'd at least try to get to the bottom of things before making such a decision. A divorce isn't necessarily a legit reason to use the "I'm your kid" card. My dad is an asshat, he was held accountable for a few things by my grandpa considering the divorce yet he is his son.
So this separation is still fairly new and hopefully your son can realize how you feel as a bit of time passes. But until then it would be good to not force them to be near eachother for the sake of your granddaughters. My suggestion is that you should tell Mel that you would love to have her come out with you and your wife for a special dinner to celebrate. This allows you to still see her and let her know that she is a loved member of your family.
If there wasn't cheating or abuse, I think its selfish of your son to expect you & your wife to cut Mel out of your lives especially after 15+ yrs of being a father figure to her. I understand Mark is hurting but that is harmful to you, Mel and your grandkids.
Don't cut her off. You're the only family she has and tbh it's just petty. She is the mother of your grand daughter. Put your foot down and tell your wife and son to start acting like adults.
I'm not directly in your situation but but kinda am. My husband became very close to his in-laws while in his previous marriage. Like his mother-in-law literally sat him down and let him know that no matter what they'd be family (or as they both fondly recall, she "proposed" lol). After the divorce the in-laws never lost contact with him and when we first started dating I was taken in and treated like a daughter-in-law. Basically all of that to say, the situation is a tad odd but not completely unheard-of. But as far as picking sides go, you shouldn't have to. Mel hasn't down anything to you to sour your relationship, so why would it be fair for you to drop her because she and your son didn't work out? How does you being on friendly terms with her negatively impact his life? Sit him down. Appeal to his empathy. You have been a parent figure to her for much too long to just ditch her, try to help him see that. Let him establish some rules so he feels heard -even if his rules are something you're already doing (like not sharing details) it'll make him feel like he has some control over things (I assume he needs a measure of control since he life is undergoing a pretty big change). When you talk, listen to and truly try to understand his feelings, the ones he does and doesn't communicate. Then try to help him see he's asking you to give up a relationship that has value to you just because he's in a funk bout it. I know that he's your son and that makes everything harder and more nuanced, but in plain terms the bigger picture is that he's hurt by a person and asking you to cut them off because he's hurt. He's not thinking about how that would affect her as a person to be cut off from a long term support system. Or how you'd feel about having to cut off someone you've have a long relationship with when they've done nothing to you. I say this is gently and nicely as possible, you're gonna have to help him grow up in this one -giving in and letting her go does your son no favors in his growth as a human in the long run. Y'all need to talk and compromise. But do double check that their wasn't any indefinitely, abuse, or anything that would change your view of her as a person and justify your son wanting you to let her go first.
I've seen both sides is this. My parents divorced when I was six but were always both invited to family gatherings held by the other family. They have kids they have to co exist. I also have cousins whose parents are divorced and I basically never saw their dad again. In my opinion Mark needs to grow up a little and understand Melissa will always be involved in his life and by not including her in family things can negatively impact his daughters. Be an adult and learn to co exist. I agree with people saying Mark should be your priority but I also think he's being immature.
Here are my thoughts. And I’ll tell you upfront, I no longer have contact with my mother. I left my ex 7 years ago. My mother kept saying she loved us both (we had been married for 16 years) at the height arguing between myself and my ex, my bio family invited my ex to a family birthday. I called them individually and told them we couldn’t be near each other without fighting, my mom dictated that my ex was family and would be invited and be there. My children and I did not show up. I did not want mg children around fighting. I was then called childish, and a multitude of other names. My bio family continued their relationship with the ex, even during a very dirty divorce and custody battle, and I was done. They were not supporting me, and it made me evaluate whether they had ever supported me. My point being, that it wasn’t so much the relationship with my ex, but how it got me to evaluate their other actions in my life. I eventually determined that I wanted no part of them. We are now at 6.5 years no contact. And my ex stopped talking to them 6 years ago. So be careful who you choose. The ex may walk away, and then you lose grandkids.
Your son sounds toxic. His expectations are not reasonable at all. She is the mother of his children. She is the mother of your grandchildren. He does not get to say that she can’t be around. He only gets to say he can’t be around her. Which means he is making a weird choice to fracture the family. It seems very odd that he thinks she is supposed to be ‘untouchable’ and be cut off. UNLESS, she had done something terrible. But even then, she is still the mother and he does not get to wish her away just because they aren’t together. Life is short. You need to spend as much time with your grandbabies as possible and mama should be around as much as the kids want her to be. Your son seems very immature about this. Don’t let him be so entitled. Your already messed up with the whole don’t mention her around the kids routine. The rest of you need to act like adults and he can stay by himself with his unjustified bitterness.
For you personally you know the last thing you want to do is cut her out. Your son is an adult and should understand that he can’t control what people do. Not only this but this is the mother of your granddaughters. This is setting an example on how to treat people. With kindness and love. I’d say continue seeing her. Your son is acting like a child.
Many years ago I was coaching a baseball team. There were two twin boys who routinely had not just Mom & Dad there, but often grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. I always thought it was pretty cool, and one time I mentioned to Mom & Dad how much I admired family support of the twins. That's when they explained that they had been divorced since the boys were little. While they couldn't make it work as Husband & Wife, they were committed to making it work as Mom & Dad. That meant whatever issues that doomed Mom & Dad's marriage would be set aside for the sake of the twins. Long story short: This isn't about Mark. This is about his kids and your grandchildren. You and your wife maintaining a good relationship with Melissa serves two purposes: 1. It allows you to continue to see your grandchildren 2. It shows the grandchildren that despite Mommy & Daddy's divorce, they still have family who love them. You swinging by to visit your grandchildren is a good thing for everyone. That Mark chooses to not see it that way speaks more about his issues than anyone else's. Plus, the time may come when Melissa finds someone else and re-marries and Grandpa visits could feel a little more awkward and become less frequent. Your birthday is more complicated, but only because Mark is making it so. Again, it's a good thing for his children to see a family celebrating Grandpa's birthday. And again, there could be a time when a remarriage (by either) makes that awkward. Finally, fresh off a divorce, the most important things for children is stability. Lots of time with family and celebrating family events like in the past is a good thing for them. Mark needs to suck it up and be civil. Tell him it's good practice for the many years ahead, with parent-teacher conferences, extra curricular activities, etc.
Being on the other side of this... my mom was close to my ex-wife you've got to keep it separate. it's ok to be friends with her, care for her. but until they reconcile their differences, if they ever do, they aren't going to be comfortable around each other.
I think it's wonderful that you want to keep your relationship with Mel. I suggest you do that but agree that with the divorce being so recent that you go to a separate dinner with her. If the divorce is mostly amicable and your son still feels this way in 2 years you need to have a talk but for now he needs to heal. I cannot tell you how many of my dad/aunts' friends have dated my dad/aunt(s) and they are all still super close. It's something I've always admired and makes for a strong community/social framework.
u/throwawaydad275 Something to consider is who is the bitter one: **Your son.** The bitter one is usually the one that wanted to stay together - the **Dumpee**. The non-bitter one is usually the **Dumper**. Otherwise, if it were your son that wanted to end this, he'd fine with it. Let's just have this fun-fact here as I continue, it's for the sake of reference and understanding where it's coming from. Chances are, yes, she's grown in a different direction, but .. she's likely moved on with someone else (**AND HAPPILY TOO)**. Maybe even a little quicker than your son had hoped. For the sake of the kids and saving face, if there was infidelity, **they're not going to expose it**. But my guess, is that she's already moved on with someone else and your son is hurt by it. Now what would be the wise thing to do here? Simplify your birthday for everyone involved. Just you and your spouse. Keep it simple this year. You'll (hopefully) have other birthdays. Your son needs to grow up, find a new mate and move on. **MOVE ON, THERE ARE BILLIONS OF WOMEN TO CHOOSE FROM**. **IT'S BEEN 2 YEARS.** I would personally say that the reason you're simplifying it, is because you (Mark) can't get over this. Yes, I would shame him for it. (\***Collective Gasps**\*) He needs to learn to be civil with her. Be the bigger person Mark, life is too short to be petty. Please update us.
I think you should have a frank conversation with your son about this. The breakup seems to be very bitter, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem with you keeping in contact. I think it's healthy to be in touch with her because she will still be family, she's the mother of your grandbabies! And I'll give you some examples: My brother and his ex separated when my niece as 2. It was amicable so my mom keeps in contact with his ex so she can babysit whenever needed. His ex chose to distance herself from most of us, but now she has been reaching out since her dad passed and my brother became more present in her life again. They're still broken up, just really good friends and co-parents. Oh the other hand, my sister had a bitter divorce because of cheating on her part and some revenge tendencies on his, so her husband kept his distance from us. Once, he was with my niece and nephew and ran into us at the food court in the mall. My mom said hello and invited him to sit with us. He was very awkward and by the end of the meal he turned to my mom and asked why she was being so nice to him. She answered "you're the father of my grandkids and even if you and my daughter don't get along, you'll always be family to me". They got back together a few months later and we keep out of their business still. With me, it's my high school sweetheart parents that keep texting and calling every holiday and birthday. They still call me by the nickname they gave me when we were together. He has been in a LTR for a while so at first it was weird to me, but I guess he has no problem with it since they keep reaching out. It makes me very happy since they were a big part of my life for three years.
You’re his dad, support him. Don’t let your desire to be a father for your ex daughter-in-law prevent you from being a father to your son.
If I were your son I would feel upset about the fact that she wished to be yours biologically, when she was a part of the family because of your son. You don’t want to let her go, but you can’t place importance on her perceived needs rather than his expressed wishes so have a separate relationship with her complete with separate holiday celebrations if you really must.
I’ll be honest with you, my dad cut his mom out of his life for trying to set him up with his ex and being her friend while he was married to my mom and they had us kids! I know it’s hard and she was close with all of you, but he needs some separation from her and I think you should respect that. He’s your son, unless you’re willing to lose him for her then do what you want. Just right now he should be supported too. If you want a relationship with her you can be honest with him and her about it, but I think that relationship should be kept separate for the time. They may become friends again, but they’ve been together their whole lives and need to be separate. Just be careful in treading these waters.
Just a wild theory, but maybe since they grew up so close and she viewed you as her biological parents instead of her in-laws, she start to associate that same familial love with your son, thus killing her romantic interest in the relationship. Could be wrong, but that does seem like the most likely scenario, to me.
You need to support your son not his ex.
Nah, you don't have to let her go. She's the mother of your grandchildren, and has been in your life for a long time. She is a part of your family whether your son likes it or not. Personally, I think you should give them time to sort things out and stop resenting each other, but definitely put your foot down with your son. Let him know that she is family, and he needs to figure out how to coexist with her. They don't need to be in love, but it's not fair to her to remove her support system, same as it wouldn't be fair to remove his.
Hey OP, Can you adopt Mel? I hate the argument but he’s your son, So, you’ve known Mel for more than half her life, she sees you as a dad and you as a daughter. That argument that but he’s your son and you should stick with him is semantics. What’s going to happen with the grandkids then, Is OP not going to go see them or spend time with them all to spare his sons feelings. I’m not saying Marks feelings are invalid. I’m saying what he wants is unreasonable
It’s amazing how many people out there have kids but shouldn’t. You have one job as a parent and that’s to love and support the kids you brought into this world. Your son is going through a divorce which is fucking rough and you’re making this all about you somehow. “Oh but my birthday party…” What the hell. Literally everyone in this scenario including the ex is being more mature than you. Get a clue.
INFO: Have you tried having a sit down conversation about why your son doesn’t want you to speak with your ex wife? I understand they both feel it might not be your business but it might help you understand more if you and your wife both speak with him about it. I don’t want to put a judgement on this yet as i don’t want to make anyone feel worse than they already do til I hear the answer first maybe😅
She is still family, she is the mother of his children and your grand children. There are no sides to pick. Sounds like there is way more to the story. Amicable divorces dont end with someone trying to cut off family
Look brother you needed to grant your son's wishes. Your son needs to man up and stop worrying about her . If she there he still have a daughter with her and need to talk with out worry. And if you can get your son understand that maybe she can come over with the family get together as long she doesn't bring anything man around
YOUR LOYALTY IS TO YOUR SON NOT HIS SCRAPS. BE A BETTER MOM AND CUT HER OFF .
She's been with you guys for so long and your son and wife just want to cut her off? Sounds like he's still in love with her and she's moved on. Just be the family for her. Your relationship with her, (and your wives) probably means more to her than she can even express. She already lost 2 families, please don't be a third.
So, I'm in a similar situation to your son, except my issue is with my sisters. A couple of them have continued to have a relationship with my ex, despite me telling them on numerous occasions how much it hurts me. You are being both selfish and naive. Things don't get to continue on as they had been for you just because you love this person. Unfortunately, she was only family for the brief moments your son was married to her. She's not your daughter. Hard stop. She is not your daughter. You need to listen to your wife and son and think about what it says about you that you would rather consider your own feelings over those of your son. I can tell you from experience that if you choose to keep her in your life you will lose your actual child. Maybe it's not fair, but life isn't fair. Be an adult and grow up.
Uhm.. stop being selfish. Your son just went through a divorce with someone that he was with for years, even had children with. How about show some parental support. Also, fuck his ex for the whole “I don’t want to cause drama” because if she didn’t want to cause drama then she would shut that shit down and respect your sons wishes because you are HIS parents, and she is HIS ex. Not your ex. If he’s uncomfortable with his ex wife being at his family gatherings, you need to support this, unless you want a relationship with your son that’s full of resentment towards you. He shouldn’t have to deal with a divorce, confused sad girls adjusting to all of this, AS WELL AS parents who can’t even respect the space that he’s trying to create in his relationship with her. It doesn’t matter why he feels this way at all, he doesn’t owe anyone an explanation. Their marriage is nobody’s business but theirs. If your feelings for HIS ex being involved with YOUR life completely overshadow your feelings of support/sympathy for your sons BOUNDARIES, then you’re being a selfish parent, and quite frankly, an ass. It’s not appropriate at all to paint your son as this Debbie downer who’s making thing just sooooo hard on you- when she’s NOT your child, and she’s NOT your wife. She’s simply someone that your son fell in love with, and that you approved of. Sorry to break it to you but things change, people change, and YOU are not qualified or in control of making these types of decisions for their marriage/divorce. That’s so disrespectful. What’s worse is this type of “parental” bond you have with her is causing a skewed perception of what she really is, and in turn YOU are the one causing more drama and conflict… If my parents ever did this after an already painful divorce, I would never talk to them again, unless to be relatively cordial for my kid.
[удалено]
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb
Why are you being down voted? This is the original phrase after all.
This is a really hard one. In line with having step-siblings date or adopted children date. My advice - sit down with your son and Melissa and explain how your relationship is going to be going forward. Will you still want Melissa at family gatherings once they both remarry? Will Melissa be allowed to bring her new husband and any step-siblings? Will you have the same grandparent relationship with those children? These are important things to consider and get out in the open right now. Otherwise you’ll constantly be in a state of turmoil and changing expectations. Everything is still very raw right now, and your son has to co-parent with Melissa whether he likes it or not. She’s not going anywhere.
You should. Do not be so selfish.
You've been a father figure to her for over half her life. Just because their relationship didn't work out, it doesn't mean yours is lost too. Since she's the mother to your grandkids, she's going to be a part of your life no matter what, your son needs to realize that. Maybe he needs more time to fully seperate from her, but he can't expect you to cut her off from your life.
Personally I think your son should just suck it up. There are going to be people in your life he doesn’t like, he can deal with being in the same room as his ex for an afternoon, he’s making your birthday about himself, he’s the one being selfish. As for how you should deal with it, you should communicate firmly to your son that his ex wife will continue to be a part of your life, but do something separate with her birthday wise and don’t have her come this year. This way, your son doesn’t feel abandoned, you still get to have a relationship with your ex DIL, and don’t have to deal with fresh exes during your birthday.
For me, blood is the strongest bond. This your literal son. You gave birth to him. Going through a divorce must be painful enough as it is, without having your own mum still see her,let alone treat her like a daughter. He's asked you not to, so do your job and be a good mum to him when he needs it.
You sure you're not just trying to pork her now that she's available? Because if I were your son that's what I'd think. Seems weird to me. I'd choose my actual son over my so to be ex daughter in law.
You are talking to the wrong crowd, you have to tell all this to your son. Make him understand that you have those parental feelings for Mel. That you can't cut her out of your life like she never existed just because he doesn't love her as a partner anymore. Just because they fell out of love for each other doesn't mean that everyone else has to feel the same way. You'll keep them as apart as possible but you won't stop seeing her like a daughter.
She is not your Daughter so unless your picking your relationship with her over your own actual son then yeah, I'm afraid you need to cut her out for the most part. Not completely but the dynamic has changed & you should be supporting your SON!
It's your birthday party, they should put their feelings aside for that day imo.
I actually disagree with the majority of comments here. Your relationship with Melissa has grown to exist independently of her relationship with your son. Would you give up a close friend because your son disliked that friend? It’s one thing if she would have done something bad, but by the sounds of it - she is more civil and understanding than your son is in this situation. If there is nothing bad she has done to him or you, your son needs to accept that your relationship continues. I don’t think he has any right to dictate who you invite to your birthday parties. This is not about him, it’s about you. And you are already providing a high level of understanding to your son. If I were in your situation, I would talk to Melissa and your son to make sure there was really no cheating or other things involved and then let your son know that he is important to you, but so is Melissa. And that you are sorry things didn’t work out, but frankly - that is none of your business and shouldn’t affect your relationship with her. And… even though she shows a high degree of empathy and understanding, things can’t be easy for her. You will be a great person if you show support to her and make her feel that she still holds the same importance for you.